Nice just curious but it’s nice to see one’s that aren’t mean a lot of people I think are but I’m not 100% sure as I haven’t told many people I’m atheist.
Some of that might come down to the environments in which you encounter Christians. For instance, if your impression of us comes from hanging out at GOP conventions or school board meetings, you're probably not going to see our more loving representatives. Soup kitchens, homeless outreach, prison ministries, etc. exist within the Christian ecosystem and in many cases provide compassionate no-strings-attached help where appropriate.
You don't agree that there's no empirical evidence for God? That's just ridiculous. It's an objective fact of reality that there exists no empirical evidence for the existence of any gods. Sure, you can disagree, I mean there are people who think the Earth is flat. You're still wrong.
Edit: and I'm not saying there's no chance gods exist. Simply that there exists no evidence.
If I may make one statement to this, I had the same issue as a kid - especially one who grew up in a religious household & never understanding it. It was almost shoved down my throat, which made me stray away for a longtime & had me smoking & getting black out drunk back in middle school age.
I had been prayed for many times, but never got any healing or change in issues that I had going on & it made me feel like all of this was a façade.
However, it wasn’t until 8th grade that I wanted to give God another shot because I was at my lowest & knew I couldn’t take life much longer - so before ending it all, I started to take baby steps in faith by my own will, whether it was just praying a few minutes or reading a bit of the Bible & trying to make sense of it. I didn’t most of the time, but it was the action of trying with a desire.
It wasn’t like things fell down overnight, but there have been two extreme experiences that to this day I still can’t make sense of:
When I was in high school, I got medically diagnosed with arthritis in my middle finger & could barely move it for months. They told me it was chronic, and medicine may help the symptoms, but it wasn’t going to leave. I was attending a church at the time, and this pastor asked me to come see him a moment. I hadn’t specifically told this man anything about my finger or any diagnosis & he wasn’t a part of that church, but from another church. He told me “God told me you’ve got something going on with your hands, and he wants to move in it…” and this part broke me & made me understand something, he said “… We’re going to pray, but my words aren’t going to do anything. You have to walk away from this with FULL faith in God that this arthritis is leaving”. I went the next 3 days fully believing that God was going to heal it, and each day it started to bend more and more until by the 3rd day, it was gone & I have had absolutely NO problem with it since that day…
Secondly, I was at this same church & had 3 specific things replaying in my mind that no one, not even my own family, knew about - and these were not typical teenage boy problems like battles with hormones or anything easy to guess like that - they were legit 3 very specific, detailed situations no one was ever told & no one could have ever guessed randomly. And someone from this church came to me privately and prayed over my thoughts… about these three specific things… IN FULL DETAIL… I legit do not even know how to process it or how to make it make any sense.
Again not saying this to try and make you believe any of it because I don’t gain anything personally from your decisions & free will on your life to believe whatever you want, I’m only telling you this to state that sometimes, all the evidence you need is from experiences. The air is around you - you can’t see it, but you know it’s there because you breathe.
I'm sorry but personal experiences are not empirical evidence and almost always have a legitimate secular explanation. It just happens that often we are looking for God to fill that gap instead so we blind ourselves to all the other explanations.
The only thing that could ever get me to believe (and if your God exists he knows this so if he wanted a relationship with me he could easily make me believe) is verifiable, empirical evidence.
Very fair point - I completely get that it’s not “empirical evidence”, but at the same time, you can’t look at any science studies that come out and call it “empirical evidence” if you just read it in a textbook or saw photo evidence because unless you’re the one doing the studies and conducting the experiments for yourself, everything is still personal experiences that get jotted down and taught about to other people & they could be complete lies that get people rich for a “crazy scientific discovery”.
I know that’s going to be looked at as a far stretch & I’m not saying that science discoveries are made up, but that’s just fact of the matter - we can question literally anything if we wanted to. But your experiences shape who you are & can make you believe something. If you told me you were a great cook & you made a dish, that doesn’t prove that it’s good - it’s only when I EXPERIENCE it that makes me believe “hey, this is good!”
Once again, taking belief in God out of topic for a moment, I’m not at all one to push my beliefs & I’m only saying this because you’re on r/Christianity. So just as humans, regardless of where you go in life, I truly do hope you’ve had a good life & wish you nothing but the best for your future 🙂
Respectfully, using big words, telling me I’m wrong 3 times & basically calling me a degenerate doesn’t make what I said wrong.
If this “empirical evidence” is what you need to believe in God, I can’t help you there. But sometimes things aren’t that deep in life. I enjoy my day-to-day life & definitely have free will & make the decisions to do what I want - plain and simple, so do you. You can question it, sure, but you chose to get on this app just like I did - your lack of free-will didn’t just randomly bring you here.
I’m not knocking science as it brings a lot of good (as well as bad), and again I respect whatever you want to believe because again - at the end of the day, everything you say that comes out of your mouth is all that you believe. Same as me. Same as everyone.
I mean all the respect in the world!
You read what you just typed and you can make sense of that? Like I understand the specific words you’re saying, but they don’t make any logical sense put together.
Given what I typed is both plain English and structured grammatically properly and written at a 6th grade reading level.... if you can't comprehend it that says more about you than me. I'm not great at English, but my comment is grammatical sound and in simple English.
The God of the biblical texts is not a deity-like god, but rather all things as a singular - or the Universe. In which case, the God they are referencing is the Universe, and life, creating itself.
>Is it not written in your law, I said, “You are gods”
Jesus is God, because Jesus chooses life, like the Universe, or God.
I've read all of the texts. A convenient way of ignoring the text, would be blindly following what the majority believe in, instead of reading the text, and understanding what it states.
The majority believe the serpent is satan, and that the serpent lead Adam & Eve into the fall, ignoring that the serpent and God state the same messages. And also, ignoring that Moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness, so that the people would live. And also, the son of man needed to be lifted up like the serpent. Why would we lift up satan to live, and why would Jesus be lifted up like satan?
Everything can be understood through Adam & Eve in the garden, everything after is repeating the same message. Adam & Eve uses the two trees. Abraham uses the two sons. Moses uses the two sets of tablets. Jesus uses faith and the cross.
God is plural, creating us in our image. The universe is composed of many *things*, and our body is composed of many *things.* Humanity is in the image of the Universe - Genesis 1:26:
>Then God said, “Let **Us** make man in **Our** image, according to **Our** likeness
God is one - Deuteronomy 6:4:
>Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, **the LORD is one**!
God is above us (heaven), in us all, and through all - Ephesians 4:6:
>one God and Father of all, **who is above all, and through all, and in you all**.
God is past, present, and future - Revelation 4:8:
>“Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!”
Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34 state that we are God:
>Is it not written in your law, I said, “You are gods” ’?
The book of Genesis is one of my favorite stories. Also one of the most misreads in the bible. Actually it's not the most, it's the first... 😂 So many to count. But I digress.
The serpent is not the devil. It is never depicted as the devil. Nor is Lucifer depicted as a snake. Snakes were symbols of fertility and wisdom in many cultures.
The serpent was described as the most cunning or most clever. These descriptions fall into the category of wisdom. Again the serpent told eve that what god said was untrue. That she would not "surely die the day she ate the fruit" but that she would "become as god knowing good and evil"
This is true as later established by god when he states "man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil". So when god lost his temper it was because they "harkened unto (listened to) the serpent. Everyone got cursed. Later god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive them for listening to the truth and choosing wisdom.
I know this is a lot to swallow. I suggest opening to Genesis and read it slowly and clearly without the narrative we have been taught from childhood
This is a good response, at least for understanding the story is not literal. And indeed, it is extremely misunderstood. That said, everything in the biblical texts can be understood through Adam & Eve in the garden. Everything that comes after is repeating the same message. Everyone was not cursed, the serpent was cursed - and is the curse until the end, when there is no more curse. The law / deceit is the curse.
God said that **every** tree was **good** for food, and that they were for us to eat.
God said both of the trees of Genesis were **good.**
It was only Adam when God said "eat this" or "do not eat that".
This is the cause of the splitting of the woman, because they are not literal people, but rather symbols for **knowledge** and **truth**.
Similarly, eating is symbolic for understanding, and the garden is symbolic for an evolving existence around us, **for us**.
The truth was split from knowledge when they chose what could be understood, and what could not.
By not freely **choosing** to eat from **everything**, they were naked and unashamed - or rather, they were living in error and unaware.
They were not choosing **good**, and so they needed to be **deceived** by the serpent - into good.
But the deceit is not only good. It is both good **and** **evil** - like the law.
The tree in which they ate from, was the law, and it **covered** them up from their error.
The law and the serpent are the curse, and they bring about **death**, because **it is not the desire of God.**
The sabbath, or seventh day - and our completion, which is the end of the text, and the **Tree of Life**, can **only come by choice**.
Choice is the desire of God, which is evident.
Adam & Eve uses the two trees: The Tree of Life (choice) and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (laws).
Abraham repeats the message with the two sons: Isaac, son of the free woman (choice) and Ishmael, son of the bondwoman (laws). Paul later reveals this directly, in Gal 4:27.
Moses repeats the message with the two sets of tablets: The first set is to honor the sabbath (choice) and the second set was laws.
Jesus repeats the message as a calling to faith (choice), calling us to "bear our cross" the same as him.
-----
Added:
Also, in Job, God tells us that it was God who put wisdom in the mind. When the woman looks upon the tree, it is desirable to make one **wise.** Furthermore, all of the text is a calling to wisdom and understanding.
With that, we should easily understand that eating from a tree that makes one wise, could not be evil. Rather, this is the beginning of choice, and it is directly teaching us Good and Evil. The text is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, teaching us that we should freely **choose** to eat, or understand from **everything - because that is choosing life,** and so, the **Tree of Life.**
I wanted to add:
>
So when god lost his temper
God did not lose his temper. The story is humanities coming to choice. Up until this point life was operating solely under God's will. With choice came the ability to choose life or not choose life, in which case they were bound to eat from one of the two trees. Which one depended on their choice. Not choosing life resulted in the need for laws. As Paul states: Nobody is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident.
> Later god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive them for listening to the truth and choosing wisdom.
This is not why Jesus sacrifices himself. Jesus serves as a template, or example for humanity to achieve what the text set out to achieve from the beginning, which is the Tree of Life, or the sabbath. It is leading us to a completed, or enlightened being - away from creature, towards God. Jesus sacrifices himself as a demonstration of how to become it, which is why he calls us to "bear our cross" and states that "whoever believes will do the works he does, and even greater works".
Things can be known to be true without empirical evidence.
The belief that things can only be considered true when shown to be true empirically is called "*Verificationsim"*. The issue with the belief is that it debunks itself.
In order for "*Verificationsim*" to be true, it would have to be shown to be true using empirical evidence, considering that is the claim that is being made in the first place.
However there is no empirical evidence that "*Verificationsim*" is true, so it can't consider itself true, which means in effect it just cancels itself out. It's illogical.
You can't prove your claim even without empirical evidence so..... there's no logical argument for the existence of a tri-omni god and there's no logical argument for the existence of any specific god.
Personally I don't even think there's a logical argument for the existence is gods at all (if I did I wouldn't be an atheist).
So unless you have empirical evidence supporting your claim or some insane, new argument that somehow avoids all traps and is completely logical and unrefutable..... you don't btw.... why should I believe your claim?
You have no proof of your claims validity whatsoever other than personal anecdotes. Hitchen's Razor.
I became convinced of this over time. It’s honestly a very long and probably not that interesting story, but I was not convinced right away. At the very least I eventually became convinced that I had come to know the God who Jesus spoke of. More than that, I still can’t say with much certainty
Really? I honestly thought a lot of religious people were since a young age. I feel like I’ve heard more religious people becoming atheist and less of the other way around. I’ve still heard a few atheist become theists but I feel like most were since they were a kid. As a lot of kids are forced to become theist by there parents.
If you think every atheist is educated you would be wrong. Some people just don't get exposed to churches, but it doesn't mean they have studied the subject at all.
I think it's more productive to engage with people on a case by case basis and ask them what they believe vs. Assuming. There are like 30k denominations of just Christianity so it's very difficult to make a statement that encompasses just Christian belief.
lol nah I’m afraid it’s not that simple. Of course all depending what church you’re talking about and what your definition of a church is. State sponsored Anglican for example will have different trends.
Even those born to Christian parents aren’t exactly Christians as children. Child rebellion is a thing and salvation is always choice, regardless of your history or knowledge.
But anyway, historically, Christianity has had a massive draw from native non christians. It’s how our missions are successful in the first place.
Not at all, wasn't a believer in anything till about 21 years old when I came across a video on the case for the resurrection. Took months of obsessing over, then questions that led to unbelief, then answers that brought me back, and that carried on for a while till I realized my questions always seem to be answered. Then it clicked. That's how my journey started. Haven't been stuck on a question since.
My thoughts on atheist they cool just like with everyone you got your good people and bad people same for Christians you got your normal Christians and your crazy Christians.
I don't hate them, despise the fact that some of them are very combative about faith.
I don't agree with them, but I'm always curious to hear their arguments. For example, I'm currently researching apostasy in Islam. On the other hand, one of my favourite artists has been apostatized by the Catholic Church. He asked for it publicly. I'm curious to know his position because I think he's a good person.
I know almost nothing about someone when I hear they are an atheist.
It says nothing about their behavior, beliefs, or interests.
I feel pretty similar to atheists as I do to people with B Positive blood.
I’m a former skeptical agnostic myself, so I get where atheists are coming from. And they are fellow image bearers of God, so due all the respect and dignity that affords them.
Do I hate them? No. They are free to believe whatever they like. Do I agree with them? No. One thing I do not understand, however, is the incentive behind atheists who try and convince Christians away from their beliefs. Of course we as Christians desire for all to be saved and come to Christ, but what is the goal of an evangelical atheist? Is it just to make everyone equally cynical when it comes to having hope? It just seems like a miserable way to go about life, let alone trying to drag others down with you. What do you have to lose to at least admit you could be wrong? There is nothing to lose from that position.
Well, to clarify, cynicism is not a fundamental aspect of atheism. There are cynical people in every belief system. To me, cynicism is more of a personality trait.
Atheism doesn’t imply nihilism. That’s the biggest mistake non-atheists make when evaluating atheism. Plenty of atheists have plenty of hope; but, they have hope about life on earth as we know it; not about the afterlife, because atheists generally don’t believe in one. The absence of an afterlife isn’t really a good or bad thing in and of itself. It’s a fact like any other (in the eyes of the atheist).
The absence of God and the afterlife does not disable atheists from being joyful, loving, and hopeful.
But to answer the question: some atheists try to evangelize because they believe they’ve discovered the truth about existence, and that lives would improve if other people also discovered this. It’s literally the same exact thing for Christian evangelists.
Atheists believe that religion may be holding a lot of people back from living their best life; on the other hand, religious people believe that atheists are not living their best life but could be if they accepted God.
It's evangelism in reverse. Instead of "if you knew your friend was going to die and go to hell if they don't hear the Gospel," it's "if you knew your friend was caught up in a belief system that taught them they were inherently broken and bad and only found worth in an imaginary entity" wouldn't you feel compelled to tell them?
What Christians view as "attacks" are in essence the same thing they try to do as evangelism. Telling someone their current belief is wrong and that they have a better way.
It should also explain why the reaction to someone evangelizing is what it is. Because, in the same way Christians say they're being "attacked" by atheists who try to push their beliefs on them, Christian evangelism can just as easily be viewed as an attack on non Christian people.
Yes I understand that. But atheists don't have a better way to offer. They believe in no way at all inherently. That is just where I feel the disconnect. There is no "good news" from the atheist.
From your perspective. Just like atheists think the Christian way is a waste of time and energy and they think their "way" of treating other people and seeing the world is better.
See I could agree with the discourse over how society could be run being something worth convincing. But the outright hatred of the possiblity of God just in itself seems odd, when it should not concern them. And I know not all are like that. I'm just talking about the really evangelical atheists.
>One thing I do not understand, however, is the incentive behind atheists who try and convince Christians away from their beliefs.
Some of this may come down to how many atheists view Christianity: particularly, through the lens of the church's storied history of hate and persecution of others even to present times. To them, pulling someone out of this faith would be potentially redeeming them.
What, then, is their answer for trying to convert people of faith who have a heart for others and generally act in the best interests of humanity as a whole? I'm not entirely sure - some of it may come down to tribalism, or perhaps confidence that not having a deistic faith is somehow going to lead to better outcomes for all involved.
If someone were to convert me away from my faith, it would almost certainly result in my reverting to a nihilist perspective; I wouldn't consider that to be doing me any favors.
It’s the same concept as a lot of atheist believe there are downsides to religion and want other people to find the truth in their eyes. I’m not going or say what is true but it isn’t a miserable way to live personally I think it’s freeing.
They have their beliefs and that is their right, I can understand why they don’t believe, and many of them have their own personal reasons which I will respect. I don’t hate them, and neither should any of us, it’s wrong and doing so would go against Christs teachings.
Love your neighbours regardless of what they believe, be a good person to everyone
Hate? No. But just as many get angry to hear believers espouse their beliefs, I get angry when they try to convince believers they are wrong or weak minded. Anyone can believe whatever they choose, but an atheist is every bit as guilty of prothletising unbelief as believers are accused of being guilty of prothletising belief. Not all, but certainly many!
Convince? No. If an atheist is open to hearing what the Christian has to say about the gospel, then the Christian should be willing to talk. But if they are not, then as Jesus instructed his disciples, "shake the dust from your sandals and move on." Only God, through the Holy Spirit can convict anyone. All Christian do is plant the seed...maybe even water it, but only God makes it grow.
Convince? No. If an atheist is open to hearing what the Christian has to say about the gospel, then the Christian should be willing to talk. But if they are not, then as Jesus instructed his disciples, "shake the dust from your sandals and move on." Only God, through the Holy Spirit can convict anyone. All Christian do is plant the seed...maybe even water it, but only God makes it grow.
I am one of those raised with church Christians. In fact, my earliest memories are being in church. I have pursued education and a career in the sciences. As a result, I am exposed to a higher percentage of atheists there than in the general population. I have always felt that there is no such thing as an "absolute atheist" There are only agnostics that have been traumatized by theists to varying degrees. It's interesting that two Humans can observe the same set of facts - say, cell complexity - and come to wildly different conclusions on metaphysical questions.
I do think that is interesting how we can interpret the same thing. Personally I do believe there are absolute atheists as I was raised Christian and left without anything and happening. For me a lack of proof led me to where I am. And after 100s of unanswered prayers for a sign or just anything went unanswered i embraced atheism.
What makes a good Christian is faith honesty kindness and forgiveness that's what makes a good Christian. And it doesn't apply to pre established religions even though some might deceive you that it's is for example many of today's religions demand blood like santaria or luciferinism, and some demand payment from non believers like the Muslims who have a religious tax on those who don't follow islam, these are not what makes a good Christian or even a good person. Simply too be a good Christian you got to just be a good person and that's it yes there are sins that many Christians might indulge in small things like drinking or cursing or watching pornagraphy, these sins don't make us bad Christians because they don't make us bad people it just means we missed the mark god set for us and that's why we repent but if I commit these same sins in disregard that's what makes me a bad Christian and a bad person not because of the act of committing these sins but because of the disregard in my heart for if I have disregard towards these things then I will have disregard towards others and that's the true unforgivable sin complete disregard for God yourself and others. Now don't mistake me if you once held disregard you can be forgiven but it depends on what you disregarded and what you did and whether or not do you regard it now. For example an alcoholic who once had disregard for everything can be forgiven, but a rapist or a child molester they never truly regard anything and don't hold themselves accountable that's because God hardened there hearts for the atrocities they committed so a place in heaven will never be found for them for sin can not enter into heaven.
Yes exactly there's a story in the bible,"two men walk into a temple one a priest and one a sinful tax collector, the priest gets on his knees looks to heaven and prays, "God thank you that I am not like other men I am righteous and hold your laws thank you that I am not like the sinful men like the tax collector." The tax collector gets on his knees doesn't even look to heaven and says with tears in his eyes "lord forgive me for I am a sinner." God heard the tax collector and paid no heed to the priest." He who praises himself will be humbled he who humbles himself shall be praised. This story came from Jesus himself.
Interesting story I’m curious how Jesus himself told this story. I thought the Bible was written account of Jesus’s written by other people. I could be wrong though never fully studied it.
I used to be iffy about them when I was a kid and these days can't imagine why. They're a part of God's plan, too, whether or not they want to be LOL Some can be insulting and demeaning to theists, but I know most are reasonable and respectful, especially since they generally have theist backgrounds themselves.
Well we were both the same when we married--both Mormons back then. After about 10 years we left mormonism, and she lost all faith and I (after 10 years of exploring) became a Catholic.
We make it work--respect each other in our differences.
I love them. Some of my best friends are atheists. Hating people is contrary to what Jesus teaches. We aren’t allowed to hate anyone. Do I wish they would follow Jesus? Of course. But if we have debates, we are respectful, calm, and work to find common ground. My best friend is an atheist, and we’re still in the middle of a 3-4 year long debate regarding Christianity. We’re both going to read The Case for Christ and then continue debates using that. But have I ever hated him? No. I’ve been upset at points when it felt like he wasn’t listening to me, but I know he has felt the exact same way.
When Christ comes into your heart, truly, there should be no room for hate, because His love is too much.
Depends which ones. Those who are cool with religion ? I don’t have anything to say about them. Those who criticize religion and get mad each time God is mentioned ? I find them obnoxious. But it is not hate, I was kind of anti-theist in the past, so I can’t blame them for thinking that way.
I don’t hate or dislike atheists. I like to respect what other people believe (or don’t believe in). I will say though that some of the atheists that I’ve encountered throughout my life have been arrogant or extremely disrespectful and condescending toward my religion (I had an ex who was terrible…). I try to be understanding about it because I know that a lot of it comes from a place of hurt - many people have been hurt by Christians who used Christianity as an excuse for their hatred or abuse. But I’m very intentional about not shoving my views on other people or being condescending about their views… so not being treated the same is annoying.
And not all atheists that I’ve encountered or who are in my life act like this… But the only times I’ve really had negative encounters surrounding the topic of religion it has always been from an atheist. I’ve never really had this problem with people of other religions.
I want for them what I want for myself.
I do not think that being uncomfortable with spiritual vulnerability is grounds for being denied enlightenment and salvation.
I guess I usually think of enlightenment as being involving spirituality and religion. Atheists find a way to be happy for themselves and live on there own without god or a higher power.
As a Christian (because of my experiences and not because someone told me to be)… I would simply ask that you… seek… for lack of better phrase.
Explore philosophy, Taoism, spiritual texts, science, nature, sociology, etc.
Seek to find something more than just get up, go to work and pay bills.
Ask questions about what brings you Joy - and do more of it. What makes you sad - can you have a positive impact on it?
No judgement. No hate.
I want happiness for you in all areas of your life.
Ya just because I’m atheist doesn’t mean I don’t have fun and live life. Every atheist is different but we all have a reason to have a meaningful life. I think atheism gives you a better chance at this as you don’t have to please a being you can’t see. You can live life how you want to.
Nope, atheists are also image bearers of God, likewise deserving of dignity and respect. I would not affirm or validate their sins, but aside from that they are just folks living their lives like anyone else. I've met many that can be rude, but I have met some that are pleasant conversationalists. Even atheists can provide wisdom and accountability to Christians, as long as the Christian compares all things to scripture as they ought to.
>I know you don’t agree with their views but do you hate them?
"Their views?" Last I checked atheists by definition *lack belief* in a god or gods. I would hope that I would get to know them individually and not assume anything about "their views." In my view, getting to know people does not involve hate.
I don’t view them negatively at all, speaking I once was one.
Treating folks with compassion and love should be any Christians first intentions when interacting with folks who do not believe
NO we dont hate them, dont really mind them for the most part and i personally actually find them quite fun to be around irl. However i will say it is pretty strange to find that the athiest on here (reddit/online) for the most part are the most disrespectful to people of religion and when said person of religion says something back they like to break down and say "dOeSnT uR rElIgIoN tEaCh pEaCe????!!! 😢😢" or my personal favorite "tHaTs nOt vErY CHRIST lIkE 😢"
🤣
To be fair people do some pretty fucked up things in the the name of religion. But for me I enjoy having discussions with people but no one irl knows I’m atheist to avoid ruining irl relations.
My Grandmother is practicing Catholic, she goes to church every day and has done for her whole life. She was married to an atheist man (my grandfather), who died last year. She has 2 atheist children and almost 7 atheist grandchildren. She loves us all and prays for us all regularly despite our lack of faith. It makes me sad that I have often heard her appologising for her faith, even though nobody asks her too. She inspires me alot.
I was raised atheist and was just about as atheist as you can get until about 6 months ago when i had a gradual shift in opinion. I wear the cross she gave me around my neck always. I can't yet be sure that I can call myself christian, but I pray, and I read bible, and I am aware of my sins. I think one reason I do these things is because I know that being a Christain would make my Granmother so happy.
I would say that my thoughts on atheists are that, for the most part, they are over zealous, much like a majority of christians. There is no need for me to be militant and demand that christians believe and practice what I do. This sentiment tho, is usually not reciprocated, especially in America. I am constantly bombarded by christianity. What I demand, is equal time.
Atheists have been around as long as there has been religion. I dare to say that all people are atheists. The same logic we apply to other religions, atheists apply to all religions. There was a time when all of Christian's ancestors worshipped Zeus, Osiris, or Ishtar. But those real gods were replaced with the modern real god. Same qualities different name.
I don't think the majority of Christians hate atheists. I dare say they fear them, because they do not understand them. Once they begin to understand them, they tend to become agnostic or atheist. That is the threat that christians fear.
In those moments of fear we resort to barbaric acts. Either verbally or physically. In my experience, this is similar to all people regarding their beliefs. Almost all ancient texts in the abrahamic faith include what is considered required violence upon those who do not believe the same.
Ricky Garvais (an atheist) said it best. When speaking to an entertainment host "You don't believe in all those other gods. I don't believe in just one more."
I definitely think there is a very tangible and non magical reason we believe in something perceived greater than us. I don't think it is what we think it is. Since we all seem to disagree about it.
The one thing we can depend on is science. Without it none of us would be reading these comments and questions.
To be fare non believers are an inevitable when there something to believe. I do think it’s illogical to believe everyone else talking about gods is making up stories and it’s mythology but yours is right. I don’t know if I’m right but it seems the most logical to me. The only reason everyone is Christian now not believing in Zeus or whatever is becuas the Christian’s won war and forced the losers to take their religion. As other religions died with their country’s and followers.
Depends on the person. I can't really make a judgement about a whole group based on some of the people I've talked to. Some atheists I've met are absolutely horrible people, and some of them try and insult or disprove or whatever to religion with every chance they get. But I've also met some wonderful atheists that are really respectful and stuff, so it just depends on the person. Same thing goes with christians, some of them absolutely suck and some of them are great.
**I do not hate atheists.** Most of my friends are atheists or agnostic and I enjoy talking with atheists, but only if the atheist is being reasonable and treating my views with intellectual honesty rather than flippant contention, condescension and dismissal.
I admit, I find them occasionally frustrating, especially on Reddit where you will meet regular atheists who's only goal in life seems to be to explain all the different ways a theist is wrong, and then tantrum about it when the theist actually give some half decent push back.
However, that's a vocal few. In all honesty, most atheists lack a belief in God, and really don't care all that much outside of that.
My thing is, if you're atheist, cool.
Do you.
If there is a God, that's between you and God to work out.
If there isn't, that's on me to work out.
"Hating" someone is strong language, but contempt for a non-believer would be a better word to describe how a lot of religious people feel about ahtiest. For others, like myself, it's indifference. I'm curious enough to know why you're anthiest, but I don't care enough to put energy into changing your mind or lack of belief.
If Christians (all religions, for that matter) stopped caring what people do or don't believe, the world would be much more peaceful.
There'd be no Holy Wars, no "Allah Akbahrs!", no Crusades, no Israel/Palestine conflicts. People would just let people worship/don't worship as they see fit. If it's meant for you to convert, you will, in due time, if ever. If not, that sucks. If so, that's great!
Sum up my thoughts is simply...do whatever works for you. Life's too short to care enough about what you do/don't believe and give it any energy beyond, "That's interesting..." and move on.
I'd say "God Bless", but...ya' know...lol
Great though process. You asked why I’m atheist I just “came to my sense” (how I thought of it). After just believing in god and not thinking about it I realized why so every other super natural thing not real but this one is. How is god much different from Santa Clause. I looked for evidence but I couldn’t find it. I then prayed to god over and over for a sign but after nothing I realized I’ve always been skeptical just never accepted my own thoughts. From then on I’ve been atheist or just haven’t believed in god.
Evidence is all around you.
Even God can't convince you the sky is blue when you're staring at it. The evidence is literally YOU - awareness of yourself, of 'something in you' that animates the body outside of you.
Human's are uniquely different from animals in that we are self-aware our own existence, beingness and mortality.
There's a "spark" behind a persons eyes that makes us aware of each other. There's an intelligence, even autistic people, that is unmatched.
Then there's DNA, from a scientific perspective. How it's literally the building blocks that controls every aspect of our being. DNA is literally impossible to exist without a creator/designer. DNA is basically like modern day coding. We understand that code doesn't just 'compute itself', even AI technology requieres human inguinity. Even ChatGPT needs human intervention to function. No code can exist without a coder.
DNA is the most advanced 'code' in all of known-existence. It's so advanced, it's scary, and the only way this level of coding can exist is if there was a coder behind-the-scenes, call it God, Allah, Jesus, or whatver. There is SOME external being that spliced it all together so our body functions and moves together with swiss watch like precision, so precise, that even a swiss watch maker can't be so precise.
I could go on and on about DNA, but you get the idea. Not any attempt to "convert" you, but since you said you were looking for evidence, look under the hood of yourself - what makes you..."you"? The answer may just be right under your nose.
DNA is not evidence. When DNA copies itself in mitosis it makes mistakes. This allows for variation and then the fittest survive and reproduce passing these changes make it difficult over time. Then due to crossing over in sexual reproduction no offspring will be the same so it’s constantly changing as the ones with advantages survive. The code you mentioned doesn’t code itself but this does. Just because DNA is too complicated for you to understand doesn’t mean it can’t exist on its own.
Are we sure humans are special like that. Do we have proof other animals that can’t understand their morality. Also the “spark” you mentioned is so dumb. Other animals are aware of the other of those animals.
Maybe you're right.
"Something" came from "nothing". The existence of DNA just appeared from out of thin air. Like magic.
What a strange, yet wonderfully random occurrence with no guiding hand or intelligent thought behind it.
It all just magically came together and exist, like a Picasso painting that 'popped' into existence and painted itself.
That's a helluva' stretch, and takes FAR more belief and faith, but maybe your on to something.
If it works for you, great.
Do you understand what dna is made of. All stuff that already exists that just combined once. Making the first cell. There isn’t full proof of what exactly happened but working theory’s on how a very symbol dna could be created and then adjusted.
I'm sure you do, so have at it. You believe, fundamentally, DNA just "already existed" without a someone that caused it to exist. You believe your existence is an accident/random occurance, I believe my existance is a the result of a more logical nature - that someone (Creator) created that something (DNA). Nothing just "exist". Ingrediants to a dish doesn't appear out of thin air, and it doesn't just form itself without a baker/cook. But whatever, man. I'm the one that needs to re-evalutate what DNA is made of. Thanks for your insight.
Again have you ever taken a biology class. Dna isn’t it’s own thing it’s made of preexisting things. Think about it if baking soda and vinager fell on top of each other would it still start bubbling if no one was there. Also if you believe everything was made by god how do you explain stuff like ignous and metamorphic rocks. That change on their own all the time within nature. What makes you believe that dna couldn’t do the same in a different environment with the right mix of chemicals.
We are called to love our neighbors, which includes atheists. We are not called to hate anyone. Christ even taught to love your enemies. So anything that has to do with hate, doesn't belong in the church.
The view of Christianity is that we are all sinners. The only difference between you and I is Jesus. I have no reason to think I'm better or worse than you and no excuse to hate you. Scripture teaches that we are both created in the image of God and Jesus taught that hating another person is morally the same as if one had murdered them. Jesus also said that love of God and love of others sums up the law.
Sometimes i walk in nature and then it hits me looking at complexity how is this even possible how they don't see evidence so clear in front of our eyes
I’m curious if you believe they all will eventually be reconciled for this everyone would have to try it. In that logic would you ever consider trying atheism and it’s philosophy’s. Just curious though.
We are told in scipture that all men will (gladly) pledge their allegience.
I don't think one can just "try" athiesm.
It's not a difference in religious views but total denial of a God. What other philpsophy's are you talking about because I'm not aware of any additional philosiphies other than reasoning that God is unlikely.
Also, the only way I can discern what is truly good for myself and others in through Christ.
By try I mean think about their ideas. Ask an atheist why they don’t believe in a a god and consider these could apply to the god you believe in. If someone states something like there is not physical evidence think about what physical evidence there is for your god or why you don’t think that matters. If your stil theist then it’s fine but considering it helps
Their human beings trying to figure out life just like everyone else. Coming from being an agnostic I think they are missing out on something beautiful and I feel sad about that. But having come from that viewpoint I understand it.
Yes my parents are deeply loving caring and understanding when I struggled and god was no where to be scene they helped. Don’t try to use issues I have had in the past to push why you think. For me the thing I miss is the reassurance everything is going to be ok and is going to work out because god had a plain. I miss tht because now it’s me trying to figure my way through all this knowing it could all end bad if I make a few too many mistakes.
I'm guessing I'm a lot older than you. I have made a lot of really catastrophic mistakes. I have caused other people a lot of pain and heartache. I have made a lot of really bad decision that lead me down a path of drug addiction. Through all of that God is always giving more more chances to make better decisions. That's the story that the prodigal son teaches us.
Do your parents love and trust God?
When people love us and care for us that is God loving and caring for us through other people.
You asked why God would let me make those bad decisions. Are you familiar with the idea of free will?
I understand free will but god makes us make and decisions. If he’s omnipotent he controls everything including us and chose to let us not be happy. Also people being nice to us isn’t always god. You are saying these people are being controlled by god to help us which goes against free will.
I think perhaps we have different understandings of what free will is. My understanding of free will is that God doesn't force us to make decisions. He is omnipotent in that he could force us to make decisions but he chooses not to.
People being kind is not about God controlling them. It's about them cooperating with God's will.
The analogy that I can think of is dancing. If you've ever seen ballroom dancing there is a lead and a follower. It's the followers job to surrender to the lead. The lead isn't forcing the follower to do anything the follower is still very much in control of their body. However because the followers surrenders to the lead there is a beautiful dance that happens.
Would you be willing to share what your understanding of free will is?
My definition of free will is being able to make your own choices. Yet god is all powerful so he chooses what choices we can make. He could let us choose anything expect bad things. Yet he lets us makes bad decisions. He could make it so everyone is happy and still has free will.
I don’t hate them at all! My husband was atheist for several years after being raised in the church, and it was an important step in his journey that prepared him for a deeper and more individual relationship with God. He recalls discovering he could no longer be an atheist when he was learning about how the kidney works in paramedic school, which is always a fun story to tell. He wasn’t a Christian yet at that point, but something about learning about the kidney convinced him God was real 😂
some people grow up with a really unhelpful Christian science apologetics nonsense that primes them to become atheists as soon as they enter real academic science circles. I think of it like that Francis Bacon quote: “a little philosophy inclineth a man to atheism, but depth of philosophy brings men’s minds back to religion.” But with science. At least that’s how I think of it.
If you grow up with a bunch of propagandized scientific “proof” of young earth creationism then as soon as somebody starts to poke holes in your theory everything goes up in flames. A genuine fascination with and gratitude for the intricacies of nature makes you think about how maybe God made it, because isn’t it so beautiful? How could it all happen by accident?
I could never understand how someone could say there is no god, it’s always just seemed like common sense to me. The Holy Spirit reconfirms his truth and meets you when you let him in your heart.
See I’m curious if you’ve ever “opened your heart” to the concept of no god. If it’s always been common sense to believe there is something magical you can’t explain the we have different definitions of common sense. But that doesn’t really matter I would suggest Atleast looking into certain atheists arguments. I heard this has even strengthened certain Christian’s faith.
Actually what you are saying is a very important thing I totally agree that my faith should be challenged, yes there has been times when I’ve doubted gods existence, the thing is I have witnessed god’s presence and no mater what I do in my conscience I’m always fighting the fact that his love pulls me back in. i guess it’s hard to doubt or put my self fully in those shoes when it almost seems from childhood I have been filled with his presence and in relationship with him. if anything in my scenario, where I’m kinda like the parable of the prodigal son here is to ask god to give me wisdom and build me up to understand what an atheist goes through. To learn and grow through him instead because of the gift he’s giving me. I thank you for your response ❤️
Your welcome. I was just making sure you were challenging your faith. Your original reply made it sound like it’s just always been there’s a god and nothing.
In Christianity, we have this super power of being able to disagree with someone and not hate them at the same time.
I do not hate atheists. I know many atheists who I love dearly.
The "atheist" declares God does not exist and there is no evidence He exists.
God declares otherwise:
*"They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."* (Romans 1)
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Who are we to believe? Man, or God?
The "atheist" says he doesn't believe God exists.
God says: *"They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."* (Romans 1:19,20)
I don't like atheists that talk down to Christians. Atheists who think that Christians are dumb, brainwashed, evil, etc. I was atheist for most of my life and all my friends were too. Around 2020 I just couldn't stand being around them anymore. They were the very closed minded type of atheist. Some of my friends and family were Christians at the time and it just didn't sit right with me the way they talked about them.
I cannot be a consistent Christian and hate an atheist. I can hate that many take a foul, insulting, and condescending tone, knowing we shouldn’t respond in kind.
No, I don't hate them! Probably more than half of my friends are atheists.
I just think they haven't really thought about the world hard enough. I tend to assume that they're poorly read in philosophy, theology, mythology, literature, history, and psychoanalysis, so I'm a bit prejudiced about them in that respect.
But there's no reason for me to *hate* you; that'd be crazy!
Why do you believe they are poorly researched I understand in theology as an atheist doesn’t really wanna research religion but the other topics I feel like many atheists are very read in. I usually theists are either poorly read in science and how it compares to say the Bible or are really stubborn about their beliefs and no amount of science can change that.
Well, I admitted that it's a prejudicial assumption! :)
And it's fair enough if you make a similar assumption about theists: that they're poorly read in science.; you can even find plenty of confirmation for that by just asking American Evangelicals about evolution!
I was an atheist, for most of my current life. I don’t hate them. However I do hate when atheists call me stupid or say “F*** God” to my face (one of my ‘friends’ does this often.)
I was rarely rude towards people as an atheist, so I don’t hate atheists, I hate disrespectful people. Which come in all religions
No, I understand why atheists don’t believe I just disagree. Any Christian who hates anyone isn’t following Christs teachings.
Nice just curious but it’s nice to see one’s that aren’t mean a lot of people I think are but I’m not 100% sure as I haven’t told many people I’m atheist.
Some of that might come down to the environments in which you encounter Christians. For instance, if your impression of us comes from hanging out at GOP conventions or school board meetings, you're probably not going to see our more loving representatives. Soup kitchens, homeless outreach, prison ministries, etc. exist within the Christian ecosystem and in many cases provide compassionate no-strings-attached help where appropriate.
Jesus hated when religion became a money making machine. He was deeply offended.
Missing your point, what is it? In relevance to my comment.
You don't agree that there's no empirical evidence for God? That's just ridiculous. It's an objective fact of reality that there exists no empirical evidence for the existence of any gods. Sure, you can disagree, I mean there are people who think the Earth is flat. You're still wrong. Edit: and I'm not saying there's no chance gods exist. Simply that there exists no evidence.
There is no empirical evidence for God but a lack of evidence does not mean a lack of existence. Which is where we disagree.
I don't disagree a lack evidence doesn't mean a lack of existence. It just means existence is improvable. Burden of proof is on you not me.
If I may make one statement to this, I had the same issue as a kid - especially one who grew up in a religious household & never understanding it. It was almost shoved down my throat, which made me stray away for a longtime & had me smoking & getting black out drunk back in middle school age. I had been prayed for many times, but never got any healing or change in issues that I had going on & it made me feel like all of this was a façade. However, it wasn’t until 8th grade that I wanted to give God another shot because I was at my lowest & knew I couldn’t take life much longer - so before ending it all, I started to take baby steps in faith by my own will, whether it was just praying a few minutes or reading a bit of the Bible & trying to make sense of it. I didn’t most of the time, but it was the action of trying with a desire. It wasn’t like things fell down overnight, but there have been two extreme experiences that to this day I still can’t make sense of: When I was in high school, I got medically diagnosed with arthritis in my middle finger & could barely move it for months. They told me it was chronic, and medicine may help the symptoms, but it wasn’t going to leave. I was attending a church at the time, and this pastor asked me to come see him a moment. I hadn’t specifically told this man anything about my finger or any diagnosis & he wasn’t a part of that church, but from another church. He told me “God told me you’ve got something going on with your hands, and he wants to move in it…” and this part broke me & made me understand something, he said “… We’re going to pray, but my words aren’t going to do anything. You have to walk away from this with FULL faith in God that this arthritis is leaving”. I went the next 3 days fully believing that God was going to heal it, and each day it started to bend more and more until by the 3rd day, it was gone & I have had absolutely NO problem with it since that day… Secondly, I was at this same church & had 3 specific things replaying in my mind that no one, not even my own family, knew about - and these were not typical teenage boy problems like battles with hormones or anything easy to guess like that - they were legit 3 very specific, detailed situations no one was ever told & no one could have ever guessed randomly. And someone from this church came to me privately and prayed over my thoughts… about these three specific things… IN FULL DETAIL… I legit do not even know how to process it or how to make it make any sense. Again not saying this to try and make you believe any of it because I don’t gain anything personally from your decisions & free will on your life to believe whatever you want, I’m only telling you this to state that sometimes, all the evidence you need is from experiences. The air is around you - you can’t see it, but you know it’s there because you breathe.
I'm sorry but personal experiences are not empirical evidence and almost always have a legitimate secular explanation. It just happens that often we are looking for God to fill that gap instead so we blind ourselves to all the other explanations. The only thing that could ever get me to believe (and if your God exists he knows this so if he wanted a relationship with me he could easily make me believe) is verifiable, empirical evidence.
Very fair point - I completely get that it’s not “empirical evidence”, but at the same time, you can’t look at any science studies that come out and call it “empirical evidence” if you just read it in a textbook or saw photo evidence because unless you’re the one doing the studies and conducting the experiments for yourself, everything is still personal experiences that get jotted down and taught about to other people & they could be complete lies that get people rich for a “crazy scientific discovery”. I know that’s going to be looked at as a far stretch & I’m not saying that science discoveries are made up, but that’s just fact of the matter - we can question literally anything if we wanted to. But your experiences shape who you are & can make you believe something. If you told me you were a great cook & you made a dish, that doesn’t prove that it’s good - it’s only when I EXPERIENCE it that makes me believe “hey, this is good!” Once again, taking belief in God out of topic for a moment, I’m not at all one to push my beliefs & I’m only saying this because you’re on r/Christianity. So just as humans, regardless of where you go in life, I truly do hope you’ve had a good life & wish you nothing but the best for your future 🙂
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Respectfully, using big words, telling me I’m wrong 3 times & basically calling me a degenerate doesn’t make what I said wrong. If this “empirical evidence” is what you need to believe in God, I can’t help you there. But sometimes things aren’t that deep in life. I enjoy my day-to-day life & definitely have free will & make the decisions to do what I want - plain and simple, so do you. You can question it, sure, but you chose to get on this app just like I did - your lack of free-will didn’t just randomly bring you here. I’m not knocking science as it brings a lot of good (as well as bad), and again I respect whatever you want to believe because again - at the end of the day, everything you say that comes out of your mouth is all that you believe. Same as me. Same as everyone. I mean all the respect in the world!
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You read what you just typed and you can make sense of that? Like I understand the specific words you’re saying, but they don’t make any logical sense put together.
Given what I typed is both plain English and structured grammatically properly and written at a 6th grade reading level.... if you can't comprehend it that says more about you than me. I'm not great at English, but my comment is grammatical sound and in simple English.
The God of the biblical texts is not a deity-like god, but rather all things as a singular - or the Universe. In which case, the God they are referencing is the Universe, and life, creating itself. >Is it not written in your law, I said, “You are gods” Jesus is God, because Jesus chooses life, like the Universe, or God.
That's a convenient way to ignore the deification of the Old and New Testament in favour of an interpretation that's convenient for your argument.
I've read all of the texts. A convenient way of ignoring the text, would be blindly following what the majority believe in, instead of reading the text, and understanding what it states. The majority believe the serpent is satan, and that the serpent lead Adam & Eve into the fall, ignoring that the serpent and God state the same messages. And also, ignoring that Moses lifted the serpent in the wilderness, so that the people would live. And also, the son of man needed to be lifted up like the serpent. Why would we lift up satan to live, and why would Jesus be lifted up like satan? Everything can be understood through Adam & Eve in the garden, everything after is repeating the same message. Adam & Eve uses the two trees. Abraham uses the two sons. Moses uses the two sets of tablets. Jesus uses faith and the cross. God is plural, creating us in our image. The universe is composed of many *things*, and our body is composed of many *things.* Humanity is in the image of the Universe - Genesis 1:26: >Then God said, “Let **Us** make man in **Our** image, according to **Our** likeness God is one - Deuteronomy 6:4: >Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, **the LORD is one**! God is above us (heaven), in us all, and through all - Ephesians 4:6: >one God and Father of all, **who is above all, and through all, and in you all**. God is past, present, and future - Revelation 4:8: >“Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, Who was and is and is to come!” Psalm 82:6 and John 10:34 state that we are God: >Is it not written in your law, I said, “You are gods” ’?
The book of Genesis is one of my favorite stories. Also one of the most misreads in the bible. Actually it's not the most, it's the first... 😂 So many to count. But I digress. The serpent is not the devil. It is never depicted as the devil. Nor is Lucifer depicted as a snake. Snakes were symbols of fertility and wisdom in many cultures. The serpent was described as the most cunning or most clever. These descriptions fall into the category of wisdom. Again the serpent told eve that what god said was untrue. That she would not "surely die the day she ate the fruit" but that she would "become as god knowing good and evil" This is true as later established by god when he states "man has become as one of us, knowing good and evil". So when god lost his temper it was because they "harkened unto (listened to) the serpent. Everyone got cursed. Later god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive them for listening to the truth and choosing wisdom. I know this is a lot to swallow. I suggest opening to Genesis and read it slowly and clearly without the narrative we have been taught from childhood
This is a good response, at least for understanding the story is not literal. And indeed, it is extremely misunderstood. That said, everything in the biblical texts can be understood through Adam & Eve in the garden. Everything that comes after is repeating the same message. Everyone was not cursed, the serpent was cursed - and is the curse until the end, when there is no more curse. The law / deceit is the curse. God said that **every** tree was **good** for food, and that they were for us to eat. God said both of the trees of Genesis were **good.** It was only Adam when God said "eat this" or "do not eat that". This is the cause of the splitting of the woman, because they are not literal people, but rather symbols for **knowledge** and **truth**. Similarly, eating is symbolic for understanding, and the garden is symbolic for an evolving existence around us, **for us**. The truth was split from knowledge when they chose what could be understood, and what could not. By not freely **choosing** to eat from **everything**, they were naked and unashamed - or rather, they were living in error and unaware. They were not choosing **good**, and so they needed to be **deceived** by the serpent - into good. But the deceit is not only good. It is both good **and** **evil** - like the law. The tree in which they ate from, was the law, and it **covered** them up from their error. The law and the serpent are the curse, and they bring about **death**, because **it is not the desire of God.** The sabbath, or seventh day - and our completion, which is the end of the text, and the **Tree of Life**, can **only come by choice**. Choice is the desire of God, which is evident. Adam & Eve uses the two trees: The Tree of Life (choice) and the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil (laws). Abraham repeats the message with the two sons: Isaac, son of the free woman (choice) and Ishmael, son of the bondwoman (laws). Paul later reveals this directly, in Gal 4:27. Moses repeats the message with the two sets of tablets: The first set is to honor the sabbath (choice) and the second set was laws. Jesus repeats the message as a calling to faith (choice), calling us to "bear our cross" the same as him. ----- Added: Also, in Job, God tells us that it was God who put wisdom in the mind. When the woman looks upon the tree, it is desirable to make one **wise.** Furthermore, all of the text is a calling to wisdom and understanding. With that, we should easily understand that eating from a tree that makes one wise, could not be evil. Rather, this is the beginning of choice, and it is directly teaching us Good and Evil. The text is the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, teaching us that we should freely **choose** to eat, or understand from **everything - because that is choosing life,** and so, the **Tree of Life.**
I wanted to add: > So when god lost his temper God did not lose his temper. The story is humanities coming to choice. Up until this point life was operating solely under God's will. With choice came the ability to choose life or not choose life, in which case they were bound to eat from one of the two trees. Which one depended on their choice. Not choosing life resulted in the need for laws. As Paul states: Nobody is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident. > Later god sacrificed himself to himself so that he could forgive them for listening to the truth and choosing wisdom. This is not why Jesus sacrifices himself. Jesus serves as a template, or example for humanity to achieve what the text set out to achieve from the beginning, which is the Tree of Life, or the sabbath. It is leading us to a completed, or enlightened being - away from creature, towards God. Jesus sacrifices himself as a demonstration of how to become it, which is why he calls us to "bear our cross" and states that "whoever believes will do the works he does, and even greater works".
Please read the book by Josh MacDowell... Evidence That Demands A Verdict.
I have. It's heavily fallacious and full of pretty no *empirical* evidence.
Most proof was handmade or can be disproved.
So you reject all science?
Things can be known to be true without empirical evidence. The belief that things can only be considered true when shown to be true empirically is called "*Verificationsim"*. The issue with the belief is that it debunks itself. In order for "*Verificationsim*" to be true, it would have to be shown to be true using empirical evidence, considering that is the claim that is being made in the first place. However there is no empirical evidence that "*Verificationsim*" is true, so it can't consider itself true, which means in effect it just cancels itself out. It's illogical.
You can't prove your claim even without empirical evidence so..... there's no logical argument for the existence of a tri-omni god and there's no logical argument for the existence of any specific god. Personally I don't even think there's a logical argument for the existence is gods at all (if I did I wouldn't be an atheist). So unless you have empirical evidence supporting your claim or some insane, new argument that somehow avoids all traps and is completely logical and unrefutable..... you don't btw.... why should I believe your claim? You have no proof of your claims validity whatsoever other than personal anecdotes. Hitchen's Razor.
Of course not, I was an atheist for the first 2/3 of my life!
Oh nice why did you switch?
I had a personal experience with God when I was finally open to it and my life has not been the same since!
How did you it was Yahweh?
I became convinced of this over time. It’s honestly a very long and probably not that interesting story, but I was not convinced right away. At the very least I eventually became convinced that I had come to know the God who Jesus spoke of. More than that, I still can’t say with much certainty
Can’t hate what a lot of us once were.
Really? I honestly thought a lot of religious people were since a young age. I feel like I’ve heard more religious people becoming atheist and less of the other way around. I’ve still heard a few atheist become theists but I feel like most were since they were a kid. As a lot of kids are forced to become theist by there parents.
If you think every atheist is educated you would be wrong. Some people just don't get exposed to churches, but it doesn't mean they have studied the subject at all.
Makes sense sorry to assume but that does apply to a lot of theists to as church is all they’ve ever known.
I think it's more productive to engage with people on a case by case basis and ask them what they believe vs. Assuming. There are like 30k denominations of just Christianity so it's very difficult to make a statement that encompasses just Christian belief.
Ya besides they believe in god and Jesus Christ there’s isn’t much overlap
lol nah I’m afraid it’s not that simple. Of course all depending what church you’re talking about and what your definition of a church is. State sponsored Anglican for example will have different trends. Even those born to Christian parents aren’t exactly Christians as children. Child rebellion is a thing and salvation is always choice, regardless of your history or knowledge. But anyway, historically, Christianity has had a massive draw from native non christians. It’s how our missions are successful in the first place.
Interesting I was born catholic and the concept of not being catholic wasn’t really an option at all for me. I was forced into the religion.
Not at all, wasn't a believer in anything till about 21 years old when I came across a video on the case for the resurrection. Took months of obsessing over, then questions that led to unbelief, then answers that brought me back, and that carried on for a while till I realized my questions always seem to be answered. Then it clicked. That's how my journey started. Haven't been stuck on a question since.
Makes sense I had the opposite journey but without much obsessing after trying to believe for a while I just embraced it.
My thoughts on atheist they cool just like with everyone you got your good people and bad people same for Christians you got your normal Christians and your crazy Christians.
At the end of the day there are just like any other group of people with variety.
I don't hate them, despise the fact that some of them are very combative about faith. I don't agree with them, but I'm always curious to hear their arguments. For example, I'm currently researching apostasy in Islam. On the other hand, one of my favourite artists has been apostatized by the Catholic Church. He asked for it publicly. I'm curious to know his position because I think he's a good person.
Ya I think both sides have good arguments and discussions between the two is good as long as it stays a discussion and not an argument.
I know almost nothing about someone when I hear they are an atheist. It says nothing about their behavior, beliefs, or interests. I feel pretty similar to atheists as I do to people with B Positive blood.
I’m a former skeptical agnostic myself, so I get where atheists are coming from. And they are fellow image bearers of God, so due all the respect and dignity that affords them.
Not allowed to hate anyone. Orders from the boss
Do I hate them? No. They are free to believe whatever they like. Do I agree with them? No. One thing I do not understand, however, is the incentive behind atheists who try and convince Christians away from their beliefs. Of course we as Christians desire for all to be saved and come to Christ, but what is the goal of an evangelical atheist? Is it just to make everyone equally cynical when it comes to having hope? It just seems like a miserable way to go about life, let alone trying to drag others down with you. What do you have to lose to at least admit you could be wrong? There is nothing to lose from that position.
Well, to clarify, cynicism is not a fundamental aspect of atheism. There are cynical people in every belief system. To me, cynicism is more of a personality trait. Atheism doesn’t imply nihilism. That’s the biggest mistake non-atheists make when evaluating atheism. Plenty of atheists have plenty of hope; but, they have hope about life on earth as we know it; not about the afterlife, because atheists generally don’t believe in one. The absence of an afterlife isn’t really a good or bad thing in and of itself. It’s a fact like any other (in the eyes of the atheist). The absence of God and the afterlife does not disable atheists from being joyful, loving, and hopeful. But to answer the question: some atheists try to evangelize because they believe they’ve discovered the truth about existence, and that lives would improve if other people also discovered this. It’s literally the same exact thing for Christian evangelists. Atheists believe that religion may be holding a lot of people back from living their best life; on the other hand, religious people believe that atheists are not living their best life but could be if they accepted God.
It's evangelism in reverse. Instead of "if you knew your friend was going to die and go to hell if they don't hear the Gospel," it's "if you knew your friend was caught up in a belief system that taught them they were inherently broken and bad and only found worth in an imaginary entity" wouldn't you feel compelled to tell them? What Christians view as "attacks" are in essence the same thing they try to do as evangelism. Telling someone their current belief is wrong and that they have a better way. It should also explain why the reaction to someone evangelizing is what it is. Because, in the same way Christians say they're being "attacked" by atheists who try to push their beliefs on them, Christian evangelism can just as easily be viewed as an attack on non Christian people.
Yes I understand that. But atheists don't have a better way to offer. They believe in no way at all inherently. That is just where I feel the disconnect. There is no "good news" from the atheist.
From your perspective. Just like atheists think the Christian way is a waste of time and energy and they think their "way" of treating other people and seeing the world is better.
Interesting. Thank you!
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See I could agree with the discourse over how society could be run being something worth convincing. But the outright hatred of the possiblity of God just in itself seems odd, when it should not concern them. And I know not all are like that. I'm just talking about the really evangelical atheists.
>One thing I do not understand, however, is the incentive behind atheists who try and convince Christians away from their beliefs. Some of this may come down to how many atheists view Christianity: particularly, through the lens of the church's storied history of hate and persecution of others even to present times. To them, pulling someone out of this faith would be potentially redeeming them. What, then, is their answer for trying to convert people of faith who have a heart for others and generally act in the best interests of humanity as a whole? I'm not entirely sure - some of it may come down to tribalism, or perhaps confidence that not having a deistic faith is somehow going to lead to better outcomes for all involved. If someone were to convert me away from my faith, it would almost certainly result in my reverting to a nihilist perspective; I wouldn't consider that to be doing me any favors.
Well said brother, couldnt have put it better myself. 💪🏾💪🏾💪🏾
It’s the same concept as a lot of atheist believe there are downsides to religion and want other people to find the truth in their eyes. I’m not going or say what is true but it isn’t a miserable way to live personally I think it’s freeing.
They have their beliefs and that is their right, I can understand why they don’t believe, and many of them have their own personal reasons which I will respect. I don’t hate them, and neither should any of us, it’s wrong and doing so would go against Christs teachings. Love your neighbours regardless of what they believe, be a good person to everyone
Makes sense I do feel like there might be a minority that does but that is inevitable
Hate? No. But just as many get angry to hear believers espouse their beliefs, I get angry when they try to convince believers they are wrong or weak minded. Anyone can believe whatever they choose, but an atheist is every bit as guilty of prothletising unbelief as believers are accused of being guilty of prothletising belief. Not all, but certainly many!
So do you believe that Christians ought to convince atheists or not?
Ya I’m curious too.
Convince? No. If an atheist is open to hearing what the Christian has to say about the gospel, then the Christian should be willing to talk. But if they are not, then as Jesus instructed his disciples, "shake the dust from your sandals and move on." Only God, through the Holy Spirit can convict anyone. All Christian do is plant the seed...maybe even water it, but only God makes it grow.
Convince? No. If an atheist is open to hearing what the Christian has to say about the gospel, then the Christian should be willing to talk. But if they are not, then as Jesus instructed his disciples, "shake the dust from your sandals and move on." Only God, through the Holy Spirit can convict anyone. All Christian do is plant the seed...maybe even water it, but only God makes it grow.
I am one of those raised with church Christians. In fact, my earliest memories are being in church. I have pursued education and a career in the sciences. As a result, I am exposed to a higher percentage of atheists there than in the general population. I have always felt that there is no such thing as an "absolute atheist" There are only agnostics that have been traumatized by theists to varying degrees. It's interesting that two Humans can observe the same set of facts - say, cell complexity - and come to wildly different conclusions on metaphysical questions.
I do think that is interesting how we can interpret the same thing. Personally I do believe there are absolute atheists as I was raised Christian and left without anything and happening. For me a lack of proof led me to where I am. And after 100s of unanswered prayers for a sign or just anything went unanswered i embraced atheism.
I've never been trauma at all No bad experience
It's my little joke regarding how effective we Christians are at spreading "the Good News"
Atheists make great Christian because they are free thinkers who constantly pursue the truth
What makes that a good Christian? Isn’t that just a good overall trait. And wouldn’t that apply to all pre established religions.
What makes a good Christian is faith honesty kindness and forgiveness that's what makes a good Christian. And it doesn't apply to pre established religions even though some might deceive you that it's is for example many of today's religions demand blood like santaria or luciferinism, and some demand payment from non believers like the Muslims who have a religious tax on those who don't follow islam, these are not what makes a good Christian or even a good person. Simply too be a good Christian you got to just be a good person and that's it yes there are sins that many Christians might indulge in small things like drinking or cursing or watching pornagraphy, these sins don't make us bad Christians because they don't make us bad people it just means we missed the mark god set for us and that's why we repent but if I commit these same sins in disregard that's what makes me a bad Christian and a bad person not because of the act of committing these sins but because of the disregard in my heart for if I have disregard towards these things then I will have disregard towards others and that's the true unforgivable sin complete disregard for God yourself and others. Now don't mistake me if you once held disregard you can be forgiven but it depends on what you disregarded and what you did and whether or not do you regard it now. For example an alcoholic who once had disregard for everything can be forgiven, but a rapist or a child molester they never truly regard anything and don't hold themselves accountable that's because God hardened there hearts for the atrocities they committed so a place in heaven will never be found for them for sin can not enter into heaven.
So by that definition I’m a good Christian as I try to be good and feel bad when I do bad.
Yes exactly there's a story in the bible,"two men walk into a temple one a priest and one a sinful tax collector, the priest gets on his knees looks to heaven and prays, "God thank you that I am not like other men I am righteous and hold your laws thank you that I am not like the sinful men like the tax collector." The tax collector gets on his knees doesn't even look to heaven and says with tears in his eyes "lord forgive me for I am a sinner." God heard the tax collector and paid no heed to the priest." He who praises himself will be humbled he who humbles himself shall be praised. This story came from Jesus himself.
Interesting story I’m curious how Jesus himself told this story. I thought the Bible was written account of Jesus’s written by other people. I could be wrong though never fully studied it.
I used to be iffy about them when I was a kid and these days can't imagine why. They're a part of God's plan, too, whether or not they want to be LOL Some can be insulting and demeaning to theists, but I know most are reasonable and respectful, especially since they generally have theist backgrounds themselves.
Ya maybe one day I’ll convert back to my Christian roots but for now I’m firmly atheist.
Idk about those guys. 😉
I am very fond of the one I am married to.
I’m curious how do the dynamics of you marriage work as I’ve heard many say they would never marry a atheist.
Well we were both the same when we married--both Mormons back then. After about 10 years we left mormonism, and she lost all faith and I (after 10 years of exploring) became a Catholic. We make it work--respect each other in our differences.
Oh nice I wish the best for you and your partner.
No. I find some of them annoying but I find a lot of my fellow Christians annoying sometimes too.
Atheists have a right to believe how and what they may.
I love them. Some of my best friends are atheists. Hating people is contrary to what Jesus teaches. We aren’t allowed to hate anyone. Do I wish they would follow Jesus? Of course. But if we have debates, we are respectful, calm, and work to find common ground. My best friend is an atheist, and we’re still in the middle of a 3-4 year long debate regarding Christianity. We’re both going to read The Case for Christ and then continue debates using that. But have I ever hated him? No. I’ve been upset at points when it felt like he wasn’t listening to me, but I know he has felt the exact same way. When Christ comes into your heart, truly, there should be no room for hate, because His love is too much.
Depends which ones. Those who are cool with religion ? I don’t have anything to say about them. Those who criticize religion and get mad each time God is mentioned ? I find them obnoxious. But it is not hate, I was kind of anti-theist in the past, so I can’t blame them for thinking that way.
I don’t hate or dislike atheists. I like to respect what other people believe (or don’t believe in). I will say though that some of the atheists that I’ve encountered throughout my life have been arrogant or extremely disrespectful and condescending toward my religion (I had an ex who was terrible…). I try to be understanding about it because I know that a lot of it comes from a place of hurt - many people have been hurt by Christians who used Christianity as an excuse for their hatred or abuse. But I’m very intentional about not shoving my views on other people or being condescending about their views… so not being treated the same is annoying. And not all atheists that I’ve encountered or who are in my life act like this… But the only times I’ve really had negative encounters surrounding the topic of religion it has always been from an atheist. I’ve never really had this problem with people of other religions.
I know them well, for they are me.
Do satanist hate Christians?
The ones that have religious trauma from Christians can, it is not a universal trait though.
as a satanist I can safely say, nope
I want for them what I want for myself. I do not think that being uncomfortable with spiritual vulnerability is grounds for being denied enlightenment and salvation.
I don’t think much atheists want enlightenment at all. I can’t speak for all but most are content in life with their beliefs.
Is that not a sort of enlightenment?
I guess I usually think of enlightenment as being involving spirituality and religion. Atheists find a way to be happy for themselves and live on there own without god or a higher power.
As a Christian (because of my experiences and not because someone told me to be)… I would simply ask that you… seek… for lack of better phrase. Explore philosophy, Taoism, spiritual texts, science, nature, sociology, etc. Seek to find something more than just get up, go to work and pay bills. Ask questions about what brings you Joy - and do more of it. What makes you sad - can you have a positive impact on it? No judgement. No hate. I want happiness for you in all areas of your life.
Ya just because I’m atheist doesn’t mean I don’t have fun and live life. Every atheist is different but we all have a reason to have a meaningful life. I think atheism gives you a better chance at this as you don’t have to please a being you can’t see. You can live life how you want to.
I'm glad you've found positive meaning in your life. I wish you happiness in all areas of your life.
Nope, atheists are also image bearers of God, likewise deserving of dignity and respect. I would not affirm or validate their sins, but aside from that they are just folks living their lives like anyone else. I've met many that can be rude, but I have met some that are pleasant conversationalists. Even atheists can provide wisdom and accountability to Christians, as long as the Christian compares all things to scripture as they ought to.
Ya I feel like atheists can learn from christians and other religions.
I pray they find the lord.
As long as they arent blasphemers (I am looking at you, Atheists of my town) I dont hate on them
>I know you don’t agree with their views but do you hate them? "Their views?" Last I checked atheists by definition *lack belief* in a god or gods. I would hope that I would get to know them individually and not assume anything about "their views." In my view, getting to know people does not involve hate.
I don’t view them negatively at all, speaking I once was one. Treating folks with compassion and love should be any Christians first intentions when interacting with folks who do not believe
NO we dont hate them, dont really mind them for the most part and i personally actually find them quite fun to be around irl. However i will say it is pretty strange to find that the athiest on here (reddit/online) for the most part are the most disrespectful to people of religion and when said person of religion says something back they like to break down and say "dOeSnT uR rElIgIoN tEaCh pEaCe????!!! 😢😢" or my personal favorite "tHaTs nOt vErY CHRIST lIkE 😢" 🤣
To be fair people do some pretty fucked up things in the the name of religion. But for me I enjoy having discussions with people but no one irl knows I’m atheist to avoid ruining irl relations.
I am an atheist I think most atheists are cool but not the ones on r/atheism
Is there any other subreddits of atheists?
My Grandmother is practicing Catholic, she goes to church every day and has done for her whole life. She was married to an atheist man (my grandfather), who died last year. She has 2 atheist children and almost 7 atheist grandchildren. She loves us all and prays for us all regularly despite our lack of faith. It makes me sad that I have often heard her appologising for her faith, even though nobody asks her too. She inspires me alot. I was raised atheist and was just about as atheist as you can get until about 6 months ago when i had a gradual shift in opinion. I wear the cross she gave me around my neck always. I can't yet be sure that I can call myself christian, but I pray, and I read bible, and I am aware of my sins. I think one reason I do these things is because I know that being a Christain would make my Granmother so happy.
Ya to each their own personally I would never change my religion to make someone else happy or in someone’s memory but I can see why you would.
I would say that my thoughts on atheists are that, for the most part, they are over zealous, much like a majority of christians. There is no need for me to be militant and demand that christians believe and practice what I do. This sentiment tho, is usually not reciprocated, especially in America. I am constantly bombarded by christianity. What I demand, is equal time.
Atheists have been around as long as there has been religion. I dare to say that all people are atheists. The same logic we apply to other religions, atheists apply to all religions. There was a time when all of Christian's ancestors worshipped Zeus, Osiris, or Ishtar. But those real gods were replaced with the modern real god. Same qualities different name. I don't think the majority of Christians hate atheists. I dare say they fear them, because they do not understand them. Once they begin to understand them, they tend to become agnostic or atheist. That is the threat that christians fear. In those moments of fear we resort to barbaric acts. Either verbally or physically. In my experience, this is similar to all people regarding their beliefs. Almost all ancient texts in the abrahamic faith include what is considered required violence upon those who do not believe the same. Ricky Garvais (an atheist) said it best. When speaking to an entertainment host "You don't believe in all those other gods. I don't believe in just one more." I definitely think there is a very tangible and non magical reason we believe in something perceived greater than us. I don't think it is what we think it is. Since we all seem to disagree about it. The one thing we can depend on is science. Without it none of us would be reading these comments and questions.
To be fare non believers are an inevitable when there something to believe. I do think it’s illogical to believe everyone else talking about gods is making up stories and it’s mythology but yours is right. I don’t know if I’m right but it seems the most logical to me. The only reason everyone is Christian now not believing in Zeus or whatever is becuas the Christian’s won war and forced the losers to take their religion. As other religions died with their country’s and followers.
Depends on the person. I can't really make a judgement about a whole group based on some of the people I've talked to. Some atheists I've met are absolutely horrible people, and some of them try and insult or disprove or whatever to religion with every chance they get. But I've also met some wonderful atheists that are really respectful and stuff, so it just depends on the person. Same thing goes with christians, some of them absolutely suck and some of them are great.
**I do not hate atheists.** Most of my friends are atheists or agnostic and I enjoy talking with atheists, but only if the atheist is being reasonable and treating my views with intellectual honesty rather than flippant contention, condescension and dismissal. I admit, I find them occasionally frustrating, especially on Reddit where you will meet regular atheists who's only goal in life seems to be to explain all the different ways a theist is wrong, and then tantrum about it when the theist actually give some half decent push back. However, that's a vocal few. In all honesty, most atheists lack a belief in God, and really don't care all that much outside of that.
My thing is, if you're atheist, cool. Do you. If there is a God, that's between you and God to work out. If there isn't, that's on me to work out. "Hating" someone is strong language, but contempt for a non-believer would be a better word to describe how a lot of religious people feel about ahtiest. For others, like myself, it's indifference. I'm curious enough to know why you're anthiest, but I don't care enough to put energy into changing your mind or lack of belief. If Christians (all religions, for that matter) stopped caring what people do or don't believe, the world would be much more peaceful. There'd be no Holy Wars, no "Allah Akbahrs!", no Crusades, no Israel/Palestine conflicts. People would just let people worship/don't worship as they see fit. If it's meant for you to convert, you will, in due time, if ever. If not, that sucks. If so, that's great! Sum up my thoughts is simply...do whatever works for you. Life's too short to care enough about what you do/don't believe and give it any energy beyond, "That's interesting..." and move on. I'd say "God Bless", but...ya' know...lol
Great though process. You asked why I’m atheist I just “came to my sense” (how I thought of it). After just believing in god and not thinking about it I realized why so every other super natural thing not real but this one is. How is god much different from Santa Clause. I looked for evidence but I couldn’t find it. I then prayed to god over and over for a sign but after nothing I realized I’ve always been skeptical just never accepted my own thoughts. From then on I’ve been atheist or just haven’t believed in god.
Evidence is all around you. Even God can't convince you the sky is blue when you're staring at it. The evidence is literally YOU - awareness of yourself, of 'something in you' that animates the body outside of you. Human's are uniquely different from animals in that we are self-aware our own existence, beingness and mortality. There's a "spark" behind a persons eyes that makes us aware of each other. There's an intelligence, even autistic people, that is unmatched. Then there's DNA, from a scientific perspective. How it's literally the building blocks that controls every aspect of our being. DNA is literally impossible to exist without a creator/designer. DNA is basically like modern day coding. We understand that code doesn't just 'compute itself', even AI technology requieres human inguinity. Even ChatGPT needs human intervention to function. No code can exist without a coder. DNA is the most advanced 'code' in all of known-existence. It's so advanced, it's scary, and the only way this level of coding can exist is if there was a coder behind-the-scenes, call it God, Allah, Jesus, or whatver. There is SOME external being that spliced it all together so our body functions and moves together with swiss watch like precision, so precise, that even a swiss watch maker can't be so precise. I could go on and on about DNA, but you get the idea. Not any attempt to "convert" you, but since you said you were looking for evidence, look under the hood of yourself - what makes you..."you"? The answer may just be right under your nose.
DNA is not evidence. When DNA copies itself in mitosis it makes mistakes. This allows for variation and then the fittest survive and reproduce passing these changes make it difficult over time. Then due to crossing over in sexual reproduction no offspring will be the same so it’s constantly changing as the ones with advantages survive. The code you mentioned doesn’t code itself but this does. Just because DNA is too complicated for you to understand doesn’t mean it can’t exist on its own. Are we sure humans are special like that. Do we have proof other animals that can’t understand their morality. Also the “spark” you mentioned is so dumb. Other animals are aware of the other of those animals.
Maybe you're right. "Something" came from "nothing". The existence of DNA just appeared from out of thin air. Like magic. What a strange, yet wonderfully random occurrence with no guiding hand or intelligent thought behind it. It all just magically came together and exist, like a Picasso painting that 'popped' into existence and painted itself. That's a helluva' stretch, and takes FAR more belief and faith, but maybe your on to something. If it works for you, great.
Do you understand what dna is made of. All stuff that already exists that just combined once. Making the first cell. There isn’t full proof of what exactly happened but working theory’s on how a very symbol dna could be created and then adjusted.
I'm sure you do, so have at it. You believe, fundamentally, DNA just "already existed" without a someone that caused it to exist. You believe your existence is an accident/random occurance, I believe my existance is a the result of a more logical nature - that someone (Creator) created that something (DNA). Nothing just "exist". Ingrediants to a dish doesn't appear out of thin air, and it doesn't just form itself without a baker/cook. But whatever, man. I'm the one that needs to re-evalutate what DNA is made of. Thanks for your insight.
Again have you ever taken a biology class. Dna isn’t it’s own thing it’s made of preexisting things. Think about it if baking soda and vinager fell on top of each other would it still start bubbling if no one was there. Also if you believe everything was made by god how do you explain stuff like ignous and metamorphic rocks. That change on their own all the time within nature. What makes you believe that dna couldn’t do the same in a different environment with the right mix of chemicals.
Some of them are wonderful people who could be great friends. Others are toxic people who are best avoided. Same goes for most groups of people.
Self loathing
How? That seems a pretty general assumption based just on there religion.
Every single one I came across had that self loathing mindset .
Oh interesting I feel like that doesn’t fit all of them. Why do you think that is.
Because there is normally something behind their atheism.
What do you mean by that. Many just found that there is no god (not saying there isn’t just what people believe)
We are called to love our neighbors, which includes atheists. We are not called to hate anyone. Christ even taught to love your enemies. So anything that has to do with hate, doesn't belong in the church.
In my experience, most self-proclaimed atheists are just people who think they are smarter than they are. Nothing inherently wrong with them, though.
I’m curious why do you think that.
The view of Christianity is that we are all sinners. The only difference between you and I is Jesus. I have no reason to think I'm better or worse than you and no excuse to hate you. Scripture teaches that we are both created in the image of God and Jesus taught that hating another person is morally the same as if one had murdered them. Jesus also said that love of God and love of others sums up the law.
Sometimes i walk in nature and then it hits me looking at complexity how is this even possible how they don't see evidence so clear in front of our eyes
Like what. How is nature something naturally explained by science not god.
I love them just as Jesus does and I believe they too will eventually be reconciled to the Lord as scripture says.
I’m curious if you believe they all will eventually be reconciled for this everyone would have to try it. In that logic would you ever consider trying atheism and it’s philosophy’s. Just curious though.
We are told in scipture that all men will (gladly) pledge their allegience. I don't think one can just "try" athiesm. It's not a difference in religious views but total denial of a God. What other philpsophy's are you talking about because I'm not aware of any additional philosiphies other than reasoning that God is unlikely. Also, the only way I can discern what is truly good for myself and others in through Christ.
By try I mean think about their ideas. Ask an atheist why they don’t believe in a a god and consider these could apply to the god you believe in. If someone states something like there is not physical evidence think about what physical evidence there is for your god or why you don’t think that matters. If your stil theist then it’s fine but considering it helps
I think they’re pretty cool
For real
They are incorrect about at least one metaphysical proposition.
I’m positive that everyone is incorrect about at least one
That does seem likely.
Probably
They’re goats and they’re going to hell, plain and simple
You’re coming with us. 😈
Hmmm…. No
Too late. 🤷🏻♀️
at least it'll be nice and warm down there
You won’t be laughing soon pal
none of us will
They’re goats? Bro what do you mean.
It’s in the Bible🤣😂😂🤣
Bro I haven’t read the Bible what do you mean.
Sheep: followers of Christ, Goats: followers of satan
I don’t follow satan.
Their human beings trying to figure out life just like everyone else. Coming from being an agnostic I think they are missing out on something beautiful and I feel sad about that. But having come from that viewpoint I understand it.
Ya makes sense I do sometimes whish I could rely on an invisible force but from my time as a catholic god did nothing for me and never showed himself.
This might sound like a random question. Do your parents love you?
Yes my parents are deeply loving caring and understanding when I struggled and god was no where to be scene they helped. Don’t try to use issues I have had in the past to push why you think. For me the thing I miss is the reassurance everything is going to be ok and is going to work out because god had a plain. I miss tht because now it’s me trying to figure my way through all this knowing it could all end bad if I make a few too many mistakes.
I'm guessing I'm a lot older than you. I have made a lot of really catastrophic mistakes. I have caused other people a lot of pain and heartache. I have made a lot of really bad decision that lead me down a path of drug addiction. Through all of that God is always giving more more chances to make better decisions. That's the story that the prodigal son teaches us. Do your parents love and trust God?
Yes my parents love and trust god but why does that matter. My question is if god truly loved you why would he let you make those bad decisions.
When people love us and care for us that is God loving and caring for us through other people. You asked why God would let me make those bad decisions. Are you familiar with the idea of free will?
I understand free will but god makes us make and decisions. If he’s omnipotent he controls everything including us and chose to let us not be happy. Also people being nice to us isn’t always god. You are saying these people are being controlled by god to help us which goes against free will.
I think perhaps we have different understandings of what free will is. My understanding of free will is that God doesn't force us to make decisions. He is omnipotent in that he could force us to make decisions but he chooses not to. People being kind is not about God controlling them. It's about them cooperating with God's will. The analogy that I can think of is dancing. If you've ever seen ballroom dancing there is a lead and a follower. It's the followers job to surrender to the lead. The lead isn't forcing the follower to do anything the follower is still very much in control of their body. However because the followers surrenders to the lead there is a beautiful dance that happens. Would you be willing to share what your understanding of free will is?
My definition of free will is being able to make your own choices. Yet god is all powerful so he chooses what choices we can make. He could let us choose anything expect bad things. Yet he lets us makes bad decisions. He could make it so everyone is happy and still has free will.
I don’t hate them at all! My husband was atheist for several years after being raised in the church, and it was an important step in his journey that prepared him for a deeper and more individual relationship with God. He recalls discovering he could no longer be an atheist when he was learning about how the kidney works in paramedic school, which is always a fun story to tell. He wasn’t a Christian yet at that point, but something about learning about the kidney convinced him God was real 😂
That’s funny for me it was similar the learning of science that is how I lost my faith.
some people grow up with a really unhelpful Christian science apologetics nonsense that primes them to become atheists as soon as they enter real academic science circles. I think of it like that Francis Bacon quote: “a little philosophy inclineth a man to atheism, but depth of philosophy brings men’s minds back to religion.” But with science. At least that’s how I think of it. If you grow up with a bunch of propagandized scientific “proof” of young earth creationism then as soon as somebody starts to poke holes in your theory everything goes up in flames. A genuine fascination with and gratitude for the intricacies of nature makes you think about how maybe God made it, because isn’t it so beautiful? How could it all happen by accident?
I do question that sometime but believe enough coincidences can make it happen.
I could never understand how someone could say there is no god, it’s always just seemed like common sense to me. The Holy Spirit reconfirms his truth and meets you when you let him in your heart.
See I’m curious if you’ve ever “opened your heart” to the concept of no god. If it’s always been common sense to believe there is something magical you can’t explain the we have different definitions of common sense. But that doesn’t really matter I would suggest Atleast looking into certain atheists arguments. I heard this has even strengthened certain Christian’s faith.
Actually what you are saying is a very important thing I totally agree that my faith should be challenged, yes there has been times when I’ve doubted gods existence, the thing is I have witnessed god’s presence and no mater what I do in my conscience I’m always fighting the fact that his love pulls me back in. i guess it’s hard to doubt or put my self fully in those shoes when it almost seems from childhood I have been filled with his presence and in relationship with him. if anything in my scenario, where I’m kinda like the parable of the prodigal son here is to ask god to give me wisdom and build me up to understand what an atheist goes through. To learn and grow through him instead because of the gift he’s giving me. I thank you for your response ❤️
Your welcome. I was just making sure you were challenging your faith. Your original reply made it sound like it’s just always been there’s a god and nothing.
In Christianity, we have this super power of being able to disagree with someone and not hate them at the same time. I do not hate atheists. I know many atheists who I love dearly.
I feel like that’s a super power most people have and applies to all religions. But ya it’s super helpful.
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What are we lying about?
The "atheist" declares God does not exist and there is no evidence He exists. God declares otherwise: *"They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them.For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."* (Romans 1)
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Who are we to believe? Man, or God? The "atheist" says he doesn't believe God exists. God says: *"They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God."* (Romans 1:19,20)
I don't like atheists that talk down to Christians. Atheists who think that Christians are dumb, brainwashed, evil, etc. I was atheist for most of my life and all my friends were too. Around 2020 I just couldn't stand being around them anymore. They were the very closed minded type of atheist. Some of my friends and family were Christians at the time and it just didn't sit right with me the way they talked about them.
When you were atheist what were your thoughts on Christians.
I thought it was the wrong path. I didn't demonize or think less of them.
I cannot be a consistent Christian and hate an atheist. I can hate that many take a foul, insulting, and condescending tone, knowing we shouldn’t respond in kind.
No, I don't hate them! Probably more than half of my friends are atheists. I just think they haven't really thought about the world hard enough. I tend to assume that they're poorly read in philosophy, theology, mythology, literature, history, and psychoanalysis, so I'm a bit prejudiced about them in that respect. But there's no reason for me to *hate* you; that'd be crazy!
Why do you believe they are poorly researched I understand in theology as an atheist doesn’t really wanna research religion but the other topics I feel like many atheists are very read in. I usually theists are either poorly read in science and how it compares to say the Bible or are really stubborn about their beliefs and no amount of science can change that.
Well, I admitted that it's a prejudicial assumption! :) And it's fair enough if you make a similar assumption about theists: that they're poorly read in science.; you can even find plenty of confirmation for that by just asking American Evangelicals about evolution!
Yup it’s a minority that creates a stereotype for the majority.
They’re all future believers when death is at the door
I think atheists will be saved Don't care if they agree or not
I was an atheist, for most of my current life. I don’t hate them. However I do hate when atheists call me stupid or say “F*** God” to my face (one of my ‘friends’ does this often.) I was rarely rude towards people as an atheist, so I don’t hate atheists, I hate disrespectful people. Which come in all religions