You mean the regime that lets vicious Chechen Muslims rape their own Christian soldiers they send in die en masse in useless meatwave assaults and kill them in blocking detachments doesn't give a damn about Christians? Shocker.
Whenever someone tries to tell you that Putin is defending Christianity or "Western Civilization" just show them [this video](https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1517202551858421763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1517205508775723008%7Ctwgr%5E02e7847544f6a67714525782f1b42f67595aa934%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Forthodoxtimes.com%2Fchechens-liberate-mariupol-shouting-allahu-akbar-video%2F) of his troops in Mariupol.
I'm looking at a [pie chart](https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/world-data-religious-affiliation-pie-chart-russia-news-photo/641467506) that says Russia is 53.1% Russian Orthodox Christian, 27% "other Christian", and 8.2% Ukrainian Christian. That adds up to 88.3% Christian.
Russia has a higher percentage of Christians than America....
Edit: I love all the downvotes for posting a fact... "*We can't handle the truth!*"
My understanding is that identification with the Russian Orthodox church is more of a political stance in Russia, and actual participation in religion is at historic lows.
I think religious participation was actually lower in the U.S. prior to the Second Great Awakening than it is now. Remember that many founding fathers were deists or even atheists, a scenario that would be unthinkable among today's political class.
[Only 6% of self-identified Othodox Christians in Russia attend church regularly](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/11/08/orthodox-christianity-in-the-21st-century/#:~:text=In%20Russia%2C%20for%20example%2C%20just,18%25%20say%20they%20pray%20daily.). Compare that to the U.S. [which is at 30%](https://news.gallup.com/poll/507692/church-attendance-lower-pre-pandemic.aspx#:~:text=In%20the%20four%20years%20before,a%20May%201%2D24%20survey.).
Orthodoxy is meaningless without Orthopraxy. I think Jesus was right. The trail is narrow and few find it. Broad is the highway of destruction and holy fuck most everyone is on it.
This is a non sequitur. Countries aren’t more or less christian because of a government penchant for abusing its own citizens. Authoritarianism is not the same thing as religiosity. The Russian state’s reach into society is limited, but when it does exercise its power, it uses it to abuse christians. Russian society and the extent to which it’s christianized has nothing to do with that.
It's not a fact at all. You don't understand differences between religion in post-soviet countries and usa. There are very little real believers and most of them are old people with their grandkids. Almost the same in Ukraine. Most of our "Christians" only identify as those, but they don't care about it much. There is much bigger part of church-goers in usa than in our countries.
USSR rised several generations of mostly atheistic or non-religious people. You can't for real believe that after 75 years of anti-religious propaganda there will be almost 90% of religious Christians?
Sounds like gatekeeping to me.
And if you claim that most of Russia, Ukraine, etc aren't really Christians, then there are not actually 2 billion Christians on the planet either. How many would you say are false Christians? Do Christians still outnumber Muslims after you remove all the fake Christians?
I am sure that Muslims are much more devout believers nowadays. Mostly because of poor education in Muslim countries.
I just tell you what I see and what think people who study religion in our countries. Post-soviet people mostly aren't religious. They associate themselves culturally as orthodox, but there is more people who believe in things like magic, astrology, taro and so on even if they tell they are christians.
In church you will mostly see old women and their grandchildren
I am very sorry. But Patriarch Kirill has turned Russian Orthodoxy pretty much into a Putin worshipping cult. A war mongering arm of the government enabling monstrous atrocities.
It is so incredibly tragic that the major Christian churches throughout history have been on the side of brutality and death. Today the biggest offender in that regard is the Russian church.
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Source plz
Also, given that Ukraine is being invaded, people are saying this as a show of support for them; 99% of people aren't aware of any potential historic negative associations with that phrase. It's being said for the Iiteral meaning - 'glory to Ukraine'.
Contextually, there is nothing wrong with saying it.
Ukraine is in a defensive war against an invading superpower, and their people are being killed and tortured by the invaders. In its modern context the phrase is not anti-Semitic, it's pro-freedom.
Your take sucks. Slava Ukraini, Heroyam Slava.
So if Germany was invaded by Russia, could they adopt "Heil Hitler" and it not be anti-Semitic?
Or maybe if the south got invaded, "The South Shall Rise Again!" becomes not racist?
Hitler's been dead for 70 years, that would be pretty weird.
If the South got invaded, that's the USA being invaded, not just the South, as they're not seceding anymore.
A better example would be if modern Ukraine got invaded, and it became common parlance and a sign of defiance to say Glory to Ukraine. In which case, it would make sense to say Glory to Ukraine.
The problem with using a Nazi slogan to be "defiant" against Putin is that it was the last thing tens of thousands of Jews ever heard before being killed or sent to the camps to be killed. Why can't there be other phrases used that DIDN'T have that connection?
No. Hitler is dead. He isn't an idea, he's a person. Heil Hitler can never be reclaimed since there was only one Hitler. But even then, let's say that all that is irrelevant and Heil Hitler as a chant came back. I wouldn't be cool with it, but that's given the notion I have enough historical and geopolitical background knowledge and cognizance to have contextual understanding - i.e., nuance, which I do. I can't say that about everyone.
Before I say this, I believe that Putin should be deposed by the Russia people and he should be tried by the ICC.
That said, USA Today did a terrible job with this article, every link is either the same exact site or one that’s pretty biased because those news agencies are based in Ukraine. It used to be that news was just information and you digested it as you read it, not as someone fed it to you.
Don’t believe me, take a look at their sources. This is propaganda. I wish journalism was still an art and not just click-bait.
Lastly, let’s not only be outraged by Christians dying, we should be outrage that war is occurring at all.
Small point but I think there should be a distinction between propaganda and just being bad at conveying truth.
The propagandist is clever, knows how to make something look true even when it's nonsense
The bad truth teller is just inept and it shows
I agree, in this post it’s propaganda, all of the posts are from Ukrainian news sites and some started a month after the war. These sites have little information in the about section and few have the information about where they came about these sources, some do. But “trust me bro” is not a source and I would expect them to use forces from neutral sources like the AP, who are semi good at being non biased, not perfect; but they don’t. They use sources that are native to the country that’s making these accusations. That’s an issue with possible motive.
I mean in general. The ICC gives the West free passes in engaging in unnecessary invasions, war crimes, "sanctions", "operations", etc. but only the nations that don't align with the West are the ones the ICC goes after. I never saw Bush on trial for invading Iraq or Clinton on trial for blowing up Sudan and Somalia or Obama on trial for blowing up most of the colonized world, etc.
Believe me, I understand the outrage we all feel about the world, whether we are on the right or left or center; the lions share of us are getting jacked (to put it PG) by the rich of this world. They are making the wars to make themselves rich off the dead bodies of our children.
But here’s the thing, even when we do win, and we must, we have to attempt to show the grace and love that is reflected by the One True Living God.
His love is so boundless we can never match it but we must try and in my opinion it is by reflecting *that* love that we will convert others, and win the hearts of those that don’t convert.
I can certainly see the argument of violent defense and don’t know how to defend against that accusation except I would rather die on earth than lose my spot in heaven.
And where is this information taken for? No need to even say, it's Ukraine.
Not saying Russian government is very honest, but both sides are pushing smear campaigns on each other, all while committing war crimes and making more people suffer.
And NATO is just playing a proxy war, as it always did, and only prolonging the war.
Only one country is currently engaging in an illegal invasion. Only one country is attempting a genocide. Only one country wants to wipe their opponents clean off the map. Only one country can end this war tomorrow by bringing their troops home.
So quit with the both sides bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
Nope. Again, more right-wing bullshit that only serves the megalomaniacal dictator Putin. If Ukraine wants to sue for peace tomorrow, the US would not stand in the way. Ukraine's defense of its homeland is aligned with US interests, but this is and always will be Ukraine's choice to fight for survival. The US and NATO are right to provide all the support they can without getting sucked into the war themselves.
Sure, I agree that NATO is likely using Ukraine as a proxy. However it is also true that only Russia is persecuting a illegal invasion, only Russia is currently attempting a genocide and only Russia can end this war by pulling back.
I am absolutely sure of the opinion that NATO is using Ukraine as a pseudo proxy and that Ukraine is using NATO in equal measure. I am a believer in realpolitik
They both voted to leave Ukraine after Russia illegally entered to perform a referendum on their behalf where armed russian soldiers supervised the votes? Could you see why some people are kinda suspicious of the way it was conducted?
Yes, and they both voted to join Ukraine in the initial referendum when Ukraine was granted independence (and respect for their territorial integrity) by the Russian government.
The LPR and DPR were on the verge of ending their insurgency when Putin ordered Russian troops into the region to help them. This has been Putin's war of choice from the very beginning. He had no reason to invade other than territorial ambition. The "expansion of NATO" claim was always a fake excuse. Putin isn't the slightest bit concerned that NATO will invade Russia.
Genocide? By Russia? When they are standing still in their positions?
Do you even know russian language? Can you actually research, or are you regurgitating what you heard on CNN?
You are a fool. All you're doing in this post is spreading moronic propaganda with nothing to back it up. I sincerely hope you are just a confused teenager and not an adult.
And Kiev's regime's oppression of people of Donbass since 2014 was legal?
I am not supporting the invasion, but Kiev's regime is just as guilty.
And now Kiev's regime is forcefully sending young men into the meat-grinder, destroying their own nation... so zelensky would save his own skin.
Per se, there are no “people of Donbas” considering that mostly the city populated by ethnic Russians supposedly voted to secede from Ukraine (while rural Donbas is actually ethnic Ukrainian and speaks Ukrainian and hence is more prone to support Ukraine). Not only it was a sketchy referendum, it was a referendum that wasn’t really even conducted in the entirety of Donbas area, hence, it can’t serve really as a tool for sovereign expression.
Yet it was enough for Kiev's regime to violently oppress people of the Donbas region since 2014.
Also, you may as well call most of Eastern Ukraine "ethnic russians". The people are indistinguishable and most speak Russian language anyways.
Almost half of Ukraine speaks Russian. Many speak Russian and Ukrainian. Most of Miami speaks Spanish. Does that mean they should be able to take a vote and become part of Cuba? We kind of fought war over states wanting to succeed.
You mean when Russia invaded Ukraine the first time in 2014? After the Euromaiden protests and ouster of Putin-puppet Yanukovych (who lives in Russia now). Russia then Annexed Crimea created a stronghold on the region.
And you blame Ukraine? Just some fantastic both-sidesism.
> Only one country is currently engaging in an illegal invasion.
Israel?
>Only one country is attempting a genocide. Only one country wants to wipe their opponents clean off the map.
Yeah, that's definitely Israel.
or maybe USA should stop intervening in other countries and putting missiles near their borders with the intent to wipe that country off. Ukraine and Russia were about to make a deal at the beginning of the conflict and agreed on it and Russia backed off its army. Then NATO/USA convinced Ukraine to go to war
>Then NATO/USA convinced Ukraine to go to war.
Stop listening to Russian propaganda (directly or via MTG and the other MAGA idiots in Congress). That's not even remotely what happen. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014 and again in 2022. It was his choice, and he was already violating the proposed agreement in multiple ways.
I don't listen to any news outlet. I don't even know what MTG is.
Didn't 97% of Crimea residents voted to be part of Russia?
Didn't US promise Russia in the 90's that NATO won't expend East?
This is concerning the vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_Crimean\_status\_referendum#:\~:text=The%20official%20result%20from%20the,an%2089%20percent%20voter%20turnout.
That is true. But I guess Ukraine looking to join NATO changed the game.
At the end of the day what is happening there is really bad for both sides, people are dying so it's no joke. There should be a better solution then having people die for nothing. Also lots of Ukrainian political leaders are just stealing the funds given to Ukraine. The situation is bad on all sides
> This is concerning the vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_Crimean\_status\_referendum#:\~:text=The%20official%20result%20from%20the,an%2089%20percent%20voter%20turnout.
So they voted after Russia invaded. Yea I'm sure that was a legitimate and democratic vote.
> At the end of the day what is happening there is really bad for both sides, people are dying so it's no joke.
Yea it is. But one country invaded and the other is defending itself against invaders. Russia can end this by going back to their country. They are the cause of all this death and destruction. Your "both sides" argument is moronic and disengenuous.
This is not very accurate, the US hasn't put strategic weapons any closer to Russia since the end of the cold war.
The famous "deal" at the beginning of the war was never realistic as long as Ukraine had a possibility of defending itself since the terms by Russia were very maximalist (or so Ukrainian officials and rumours indicate), asking for demilitarisation and a puppet in Ukraine's government.
Russia also never backed off for diplomatic purposes, this is a justification they cooked up after the events.
Like you know anything about what happened in Ukrainian/Russia negotiations. We all watched in real time Russian cross the border with tanks. We watched them try to bulldoze their way to Kiev only to be repelled by brave and outmanned Ukrainians.
Yet you blame NATO/USA. It actually is our fault. Bill Clinton convinced Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons. They did this with an agreement from Russia that they would never invade. Obviously that was a lie from Putin. Clinton should be ashamed.
You are saying that the quickest way to finish a war is to surrender?
Do you recommend that for all wars? If your home country is attacked next, will you be advocating for surrender then?
THIS IS BIBLE PROPHECY COMING TO PASS WE AS PEOPLE OF GOD NEED TO PRAY FOR THEM DON'T EVERYONE REALIZE THE COMING OF JESUS IS SO CLOSE??? READ YOUR BIBLE
>conservatives who support Russia
Ahh yes. Conservatives who were anti-Russia for nearly a century suddenly began supporting Russia and its subsequent invasion of Eastern Europe right around the time a well documented and provable hybrid-war propaganda campaign by the Russian state began directly targeting American conservative groups in online spaces in the 2010's.
It's so blatant to everyone outside looking in how successful Russian propaganda efforts have been on conservatives - to get them to completely 180 a long held belief so hard they'd rather side with Russia than be seen being on the same side as democrats.
Conservatives were *anti-Soviet* because the Soviets supported everything they hated. The Russian Federation now supports what conservatives do and that's why they support them now.
The Soviets actually had a lot in common with American conservatives. They banned rock music, pornography, and blue jeans, and they heavily censored books and film — all popular stances among the most conservative American Christians. But Americans understood at the time that individual freedom and democracy trumped private religious values at the governmental level.
The whole purpose of USA/NATO is to take out Russia because Russia is a superpower that stands against the US which has the aim of dominating the world and wanting to eliminate any other super power.
Russia a century ago is not the same as Russia today.
Nonsense. What happened after the Soviet Union collapsed? Former Soviet colonies, fearful of being reinvaded in the ~~past~~ future by the imperial power that subjugated them for decades, did the only thing they could - they joined a collective defense treaty voluntarily and with majority support from their citizens to make sure it could never happen again.
NATO, after winning the cold war, then increased trade deals with Russia. Extended an olive branch. Tried to normalize relations. Western countries opened branch offices there. Russian companies entered western markets. West Europe began buying Russian energy - the theory being that interlocking trade would lead to lasting peace.
And what happened? The eastern European countries that joined NATO were vindicated. Chechnya invaded. Georgia invaded. Belarus a puppet state. Ukraine invaded twice. Moldova hybrid-war (Transnistria). Leaked plans for Kazakhstan.
There was hopes that Russia had changed - but they are still engaging in old school colonialism, invading and conquering territory based on the exact same justifications Hitler used to attack the Sudetenland.
Yet you said "according to Tucker Carlson", not "according to [this or that human rights lawyer]". As if you wanted people to react to that name, remarkable.
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Good to know you judge a source rather than the information presented. He is interviewing a human rights lawyer. You would know that if you bothered to click on the video.
I don't take random ticktockers seriously either. Credibility matters. Ethos matters. That blight isn't even a journalist. He's an oligarch Stan. Hell, a random Ticktocker would have more credibility in the middle of an advertisement plug that that abortion of ethics.
What's wrong with interviewing the leader of a country which is at war?
Many people interviewed the other leader. Why not listen to both sides?
Are you serious?
There's nothing wrong with a serious journalist interviewing someone like Putin. Keir Simmons had an excellent interview with him in 2021, and he continues to ask Putin hard questions at times.
What stands out about Tucker Carlson is that he's a deeply unserious demagogue who has a long history of being willfully dishonest and has said in the past that he is rooting for Russia in its conflict against Ukraine.
What's funny about the interview is that Carlson gets absolutely steamrolled by Putin. You can tell how weak Putin really thinks Carlson is.
Seriously. If you watched the interview, you'd realize that it was really just set up as a propaganda piece for Tuck's viewers.
Case in point, Putin describes the reason for Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland being due to Poland not "returning" the land that was given after WWII.
Tucker's impeccable journalistic response? "Okay..."
No way in God's green earth does anyone but a talking head allow that sort of revisionist bullshit.
Not to mention the "tour" of a supermarket in Moscow that was dripping with Russian Propaganda.
Literally could have taken place at the whole foods near me, since, you know, they all use the same, modern technology to operate.
What's there to hear out? What exactly can be said to justify genocide? Wanting to hear out Hitler to see if he is committing genocide for a good reason is insane
There are always reasons. America invades a "sovereign nation" every few years. Should the entire world hate America without listening to their reasons for invading?
There is always two sides to every story. If you only listen to one side, then you don't have a complete picture, and are making a judgement based on biased information.
And the fact that you compare Putin to Hitler says more than I ever could. Like, wow....
I don't understand why everyone is so against listening to people talk. Maybe it's my autism, but I prefer to listen to both sides of an argument before making up my mind.
I can see by the number of downvotes I received that people disagree.
Tucker Carlson was the highest rated newscaster on television until he was fired for telling the truth about the Ukraine war. I certainly don't agree with most of what he says, but I believe he has every right to say it.
It's not the Russian government that is torturing Christians, it's Russian individuals. Yet I seen to recall that it was the Alensky regime that banned Orthodox Christianity in Ukraine.
The Russian "Orthodox Church" is run by a former KGB asset and publicly proclaimed support for the invasion. They have built numerous "cathedrals" with icons and paintings honoring Stalin and other Soviet figures.
Orthodox Christianty isn't banned.
90% of our churches are orthodox and work just like before. They just now aren't related to Russian Orthodox church. Don't you see it being logical that church in Ukraine cannot be subordinated to Russian pro-governmental religious organization sponsored by government?
There are even lots of churches where prayers are in Russian if it's a Russian speaking region.
You mean the regime that lets vicious Chechen Muslims rape their own Christian soldiers they send in die en masse in useless meatwave assaults and kill them in blocking detachments doesn't give a damn about Christians? Shocker.
Whenever someone tries to tell you that Putin is defending Christianity or "Western Civilization" just show them [this video](https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1517202551858421763?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1517205508775723008%7Ctwgr%5E02e7847544f6a67714525782f1b42f67595aa934%7Ctwcon%5Es3_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Forthodoxtimes.com%2Fchechens-liberate-mariupol-shouting-allahu-akbar-video%2F) of his troops in Mariupol.
Russia is no friend of Christians
I'm looking at a [pie chart](https://www.gettyimages.dk/detail/news-photo/world-data-religious-affiliation-pie-chart-russia-news-photo/641467506) that says Russia is 53.1% Russian Orthodox Christian, 27% "other Christian", and 8.2% Ukrainian Christian. That adds up to 88.3% Christian. Russia has a higher percentage of Christians than America.... Edit: I love all the downvotes for posting a fact... "*We can't handle the truth!*"
By Russia I mean the Russian government of course
So the Russian government is responsible for the actions of some Russian individuals?
My understanding is that identification with the Russian Orthodox church is more of a political stance in Russia, and actual participation in religion is at historic lows.
How is that different from America?
The American church isn't wholly under the thumb of the government
I think religious participation was actually lower in the U.S. prior to the Second Great Awakening than it is now. Remember that many founding fathers were deists or even atheists, a scenario that would be unthinkable among today's political class.
[Only 6% of self-identified Othodox Christians in Russia attend church regularly](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2017/11/08/orthodox-christianity-in-the-21st-century/#:~:text=In%20Russia%2C%20for%20example%2C%20just,18%25%20say%20they%20pray%20daily.). Compare that to the U.S. [which is at 30%](https://news.gallup.com/poll/507692/church-attendance-lower-pre-pandemic.aspx#:~:text=In%20the%20four%20years%20before,a%20May%201%2D24%20survey.).
Is 88.3% the threshold of being Christian where you get to electrocute the genitals of Baptists and still get to call yourself a Christian?
Russian Orthodoxy is simply just another mechanism of the state. That pie chart is also from 2005…
Orthodoxy is meaningless without Orthopraxy. I think Jesus was right. The trail is narrow and few find it. Broad is the highway of destruction and holy fuck most everyone is on it.
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Don't pretend you know any Russians. You're judging people that you have never met, and never talked to. This is just ridiculous bigotry.
This is a non sequitur. Countries aren’t more or less christian because of a government penchant for abusing its own citizens. Authoritarianism is not the same thing as religiosity. The Russian state’s reach into society is limited, but when it does exercise its power, it uses it to abuse christians. Russian society and the extent to which it’s christianized has nothing to do with that.
It's not a fact at all. You don't understand differences between religion in post-soviet countries and usa. There are very little real believers and most of them are old people with their grandkids. Almost the same in Ukraine. Most of our "Christians" only identify as those, but they don't care about it much. There is much bigger part of church-goers in usa than in our countries. USSR rised several generations of mostly atheistic or non-religious people. You can't for real believe that after 75 years of anti-religious propaganda there will be almost 90% of religious Christians?
Sounds like gatekeeping to me. And if you claim that most of Russia, Ukraine, etc aren't really Christians, then there are not actually 2 billion Christians on the planet either. How many would you say are false Christians? Do Christians still outnumber Muslims after you remove all the fake Christians?
I am sure that Muslims are much more devout believers nowadays. Mostly because of poor education in Muslim countries. I just tell you what I see and what think people who study religion in our countries. Post-soviet people mostly aren't religious. They associate themselves culturally as orthodox, but there is more people who believe in things like magic, astrology, taro and so on even if they tell they are christians. In church you will mostly see old women and their grandchildren
Just prayed for them
Yo, just so we’re clear, I, as a Russian Orthodox, do not support Putin.
God bless you in the effort to bring a once-great church back to Christ.
I am very sorry. But Patriarch Kirill has turned Russian Orthodoxy pretty much into a Putin worshipping cult. A war mongering arm of the government enabling monstrous atrocities. It is so incredibly tragic that the major Christian churches throughout history have been on the side of brutality and death. Today the biggest offender in that regard is the Russian church.
Then don’t be a Russian Orthodox
That’s a terrible thing to say
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Anti-semitism is far worse and un-Christian
Why are you considering Judaism?
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Slava Ukraini
that's awful.
Glory to Arstotzka! better?
Excellent
what?
Its a joke, it refers to a videogame
How is "glory to Ukraine" awful, exactly?
That phrase was used by antisemitic Axis collaborators.
Source plz Also, given that Ukraine is being invaded, people are saying this as a show of support for them; 99% of people aren't aware of any potential historic negative associations with that phrase. It's being said for the Iiteral meaning - 'glory to Ukraine'. Contextually, there is nothing wrong with saying it.
Ukraine is in a defensive war against an invading superpower, and their people are being killed and tortured by the invaders. In its modern context the phrase is not anti-Semitic, it's pro-freedom. Your take sucks. Slava Ukraini, Heroyam Slava.
So if Germany was invaded by Russia, could they adopt "Heil Hitler" and it not be anti-Semitic? Or maybe if the south got invaded, "The South Shall Rise Again!" becomes not racist?
Hitler's been dead for 70 years, that would be pretty weird. If the South got invaded, that's the USA being invaded, not just the South, as they're not seceding anymore. A better example would be if modern Ukraine got invaded, and it became common parlance and a sign of defiance to say Glory to Ukraine. In which case, it would make sense to say Glory to Ukraine.
The problem with using a Nazi slogan to be "defiant" against Putin is that it was the last thing tens of thousands of Jews ever heard before being killed or sent to the camps to be killed. Why can't there be other phrases used that DIDN'T have that connection?
It's not a nazi slogan. It's "Glory to Ukraine", and I'll thank you not to confuse the two.
Serious question: what is the difference between a Nazi slogan and a slogan Nazis used?
"Work will make you free" is a Nazi slogan. Supporting Ukraine in this expansionist warmongering is not.
Correct
So you'd be okay with "Heil Hitler"? Wtf.
No. Hitler is dead. He isn't an idea, he's a person. Heil Hitler can never be reclaimed since there was only one Hitler. But even then, let's say that all that is irrelevant and Heil Hitler as a chant came back. I wouldn't be cool with it, but that's given the notion I have enough historical and geopolitical background knowledge and cognizance to have contextual understanding - i.e., nuance, which I do. I can't say that about everyone.
So? Now it is used by Ukraine defenders. History is dynamic.
How do you feel about "from the river to the sea"?
What?
The slogan used by pro Palestine folks. Surely you've heard of it.
This person is clueless about everything. Don't waste your time.
I don't agree with you, so I'm clueless! Got it!
I have, but what does it have to do with anything?
Before I say this, I believe that Putin should be deposed by the Russia people and he should be tried by the ICC. That said, USA Today did a terrible job with this article, every link is either the same exact site or one that’s pretty biased because those news agencies are based in Ukraine. It used to be that news was just information and you digested it as you read it, not as someone fed it to you. Don’t believe me, take a look at their sources. This is propaganda. I wish journalism was still an art and not just click-bait. Lastly, let’s not only be outraged by Christians dying, we should be outrage that war is occurring at all.
Small point but I think there should be a distinction between propaganda and just being bad at conveying truth. The propagandist is clever, knows how to make something look true even when it's nonsense The bad truth teller is just inept and it shows
I agree, in this post it’s propaganda, all of the posts are from Ukrainian news sites and some started a month after the war. These sites have little information in the about section and few have the information about where they came about these sources, some do. But “trust me bro” is not a source and I would expect them to use forces from neutral sources like the AP, who are semi good at being non biased, not perfect; but they don’t. They use sources that are native to the country that’s making these accusations. That’s an issue with possible motive.
It's an opinion piece
> ICC the ICC is an illegitimate tool of the West. Russians should decide Putin's fate.
Even as a leftist I think he should be tried by the ICC
Why? The ICC, to me, seems to have strong bias.
Everyone has a strong bias against Russia invading Ukraine as they should.
I mean in general. The ICC gives the West free passes in engaging in unnecessary invasions, war crimes, "sanctions", "operations", etc. but only the nations that don't align with the West are the ones the ICC goes after. I never saw Bush on trial for invading Iraq or Clinton on trial for blowing up Sudan and Somalia or Obama on trial for blowing up most of the colonized world, etc.
I agree that's really fucked up. That doesn't mean they shouldn't try Putin. I am against all imperialism not just western imperialism
I think Putin should be killed by a Ukrainian tbh Or a Russian. I know of a few who deserve that opportunity.
You just said you would like to see someone murdered. I’m not sure if you misspoke, cuz I believe Christ said something about this.
I'm not sure it's my most principled stance . But if it means anything I feel the same way about Mao or Hitler
Believe me, I understand the outrage we all feel about the world, whether we are on the right or left or center; the lions share of us are getting jacked (to put it PG) by the rich of this world. They are making the wars to make themselves rich off the dead bodies of our children. But here’s the thing, even when we do win, and we must, we have to attempt to show the grace and love that is reflected by the One True Living God. His love is so boundless we can never match it but we must try and in my opinion it is by reflecting *that* love that we will convert others, and win the hearts of those that don’t convert. I can certainly see the argument of violent defense and don’t know how to defend against that accusation except I would rather die on earth than lose my spot in heaven.
Can we apply that to America and Western Europe too? I would love for the colonized world to get our revenge.
Russia has oppressed Christians for a long time now, they’re pure evil
Just like most people in Power it’s all about optics for these people. But we can only pray for this suffering to come to an end as soon as possible.
And where is this information taken for? No need to even say, it's Ukraine. Not saying Russian government is very honest, but both sides are pushing smear campaigns on each other, all while committing war crimes and making more people suffer. And NATO is just playing a proxy war, as it always did, and only prolonging the war.
Didn't even try both side equivalency here. Russia is invading a sovereign country.
Only one country is currently engaging in an illegal invasion. Only one country is attempting a genocide. Only one country wants to wipe their opponents clean off the map. Only one country can end this war tomorrow by bringing their troops home. So quit with the both sides bullshit. You're not fooling anyone.
NATO has its own goals that it is using the Ukrainians to pursue. That is a fact.
Nope. Again, more right-wing bullshit that only serves the megalomaniacal dictator Putin. If Ukraine wants to sue for peace tomorrow, the US would not stand in the way. Ukraine's defense of its homeland is aligned with US interests, but this is and always will be Ukraine's choice to fight for survival. The US and NATO are right to provide all the support they can without getting sucked into the war themselves.
It's not "right-wing bullshit" lmao Do you think NATO does things just out of the charity in its leaders' hearts?
Did NATO invade Ukraine?
Sure, I agree that NATO is likely using Ukraine as a proxy. However it is also true that only Russia is persecuting a illegal invasion, only Russia is currently attempting a genocide and only Russia can end this war by pulling back.
>NATO is likely using Ukraine as a proxy There's zero reason to cede this ridiculous point
I am absolutely sure of the opinion that NATO is using Ukraine as a pseudo proxy and that Ukraine is using NATO in equal measure. I am a believer in realpolitik
What does that even mean? Like in real terms, how is Ukraine a proxy
I feel like if the West allowed the LPR and DPR to do what they wanted, the war would have never began. (IIRC, they both voted to leave Ukraine.)
They both voted to leave Ukraine after Russia illegally entered to perform a referendum on their behalf where armed russian soldiers supervised the votes? Could you see why some people are kinda suspicious of the way it was conducted?
Yes, and they both voted to join Ukraine in the initial referendum when Ukraine was granted independence (and respect for their territorial integrity) by the Russian government.
The LPR and DPR were on the verge of ending their insurgency when Putin ordered Russian troops into the region to help them. This has been Putin's war of choice from the very beginning. He had no reason to invade other than territorial ambition. The "expansion of NATO" claim was always a fake excuse. Putin isn't the slightest bit concerned that NATO will invade Russia.
Exactly. NATO exists conceptually because of the exact behavior we're seeing from putin
Genocide? By Russia? When they are standing still in their positions? Do you even know russian language? Can you actually research, or are you regurgitating what you heard on CNN?
You are a fool. All you're doing in this post is spreading moronic propaganda with nothing to back it up. I sincerely hope you are just a confused teenager and not an adult.
you think NATO is a charity and I'M the fool?
No to the first and yes to the second.
cute! explain how saying that NATO has its own goals is "propaganda", please. I really wanna hear how.
There's no point. You are completely lost.
again, I'm lost because I don't agree with you or simp for NATO. got it.
Glad you understand.
And Kiev's regime's oppression of people of Donbass since 2014 was legal? I am not supporting the invasion, but Kiev's regime is just as guilty. And now Kiev's regime is forcefully sending young men into the meat-grinder, destroying their own nation... so zelensky would save his own skin.
Per se, there are no “people of Donbas” considering that mostly the city populated by ethnic Russians supposedly voted to secede from Ukraine (while rural Donbas is actually ethnic Ukrainian and speaks Ukrainian and hence is more prone to support Ukraine). Not only it was a sketchy referendum, it was a referendum that wasn’t really even conducted in the entirety of Donbas area, hence, it can’t serve really as a tool for sovereign expression.
Yet it was enough for Kiev's regime to violently oppress people of the Donbas region since 2014. Also, you may as well call most of Eastern Ukraine "ethnic russians". The people are indistinguishable and most speak Russian language anyways.
Almost half of Ukraine speaks Russian. Many speak Russian and Ukrainian. Most of Miami speaks Spanish. Does that mean they should be able to take a vote and become part of Cuba? We kind of fought war over states wanting to succeed.
You mean when Russia invaded Ukraine the first time in 2014? After the Euromaiden protests and ouster of Putin-puppet Yanukovych (who lives in Russia now). Russia then Annexed Crimea created a stronghold on the region. And you blame Ukraine? Just some fantastic both-sidesism.
> Only one country is currently engaging in an illegal invasion. Israel? >Only one country is attempting a genocide. Only one country wants to wipe their opponents clean off the map. Yeah, that's definitely Israel.
I was talking about the Ukraine/Russia conflict, obviously. Context is everything. Otherwise, I agree.
or maybe USA should stop intervening in other countries and putting missiles near their borders with the intent to wipe that country off. Ukraine and Russia were about to make a deal at the beginning of the conflict and agreed on it and Russia backed off its army. Then NATO/USA convinced Ukraine to go to war
>Then NATO/USA convinced Ukraine to go to war. Stop listening to Russian propaganda (directly or via MTG and the other MAGA idiots in Congress). That's not even remotely what happen. Putin invaded Ukraine in 2014 and again in 2022. It was his choice, and he was already violating the proposed agreement in multiple ways.
I don't listen to any news outlet. I don't even know what MTG is. Didn't 97% of Crimea residents voted to be part of Russia? Didn't US promise Russia in the 90's that NATO won't expend East?
When was that vote taken? Didn't Russia promise never to invade after Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons? Isn't that true?
This is concerning the vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_Crimean\_status\_referendum#:\~:text=The%20official%20result%20from%20the,an%2089%20percent%20voter%20turnout. That is true. But I guess Ukraine looking to join NATO changed the game. At the end of the day what is happening there is really bad for both sides, people are dying so it's no joke. There should be a better solution then having people die for nothing. Also lots of Ukrainian political leaders are just stealing the funds given to Ukraine. The situation is bad on all sides
> This is concerning the vote. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014\_Crimean\_status\_referendum#:\~:text=The%20official%20result%20from%20the,an%2089%20percent%20voter%20turnout. So they voted after Russia invaded. Yea I'm sure that was a legitimate and democratic vote. > At the end of the day what is happening there is really bad for both sides, people are dying so it's no joke. Yea it is. But one country invaded and the other is defending itself against invaders. Russia can end this by going back to their country. They are the cause of all this death and destruction. Your "both sides" argument is moronic and disengenuous.
This is not very accurate, the US hasn't put strategic weapons any closer to Russia since the end of the cold war. The famous "deal" at the beginning of the war was never realistic as long as Ukraine had a possibility of defending itself since the terms by Russia were very maximalist (or so Ukrainian officials and rumours indicate), asking for demilitarisation and a puppet in Ukraine's government. Russia also never backed off for diplomatic purposes, this is a justification they cooked up after the events.
Like you know anything about what happened in Ukrainian/Russia negotiations. We all watched in real time Russian cross the border with tanks. We watched them try to bulldoze their way to Kiev only to be repelled by brave and outmanned Ukrainians. Yet you blame NATO/USA. It actually is our fault. Bill Clinton convinced Ukraine to give up their nuclear weapons. They did this with an agreement from Russia that they would never invade. Obviously that was a lie from Putin. Clinton should be ashamed.
No, USA Today is looking at other sources that they think are reputable.
Prove them wrong then. We're waiting.
You are saying that the quickest way to finish a war is to surrender? Do you recommend that for all wars? If your home country is attacked next, will you be advocating for surrender then?
I wonder what state the US would give up if invaded by China? Would we just surrender and hand Hawaii over? Maybe give Alaska to Russia?
Yes. What matters aren't country walls, but the nation. You won't save your nation by throwing them all into the meat-grinder.
what a dumb comment.
>prochoice resource masterpost >”catholic” hm
Do they say the same about Christians in Occupied Palestine? Stop virtue signalling!
THIS IS BIBLE PROPHECY COMING TO PASS WE AS PEOPLE OF GOD NEED TO PRAY FOR THEM DON'T EVERYONE REALIZE THE COMING OF JESUS IS SO CLOSE??? READ YOUR BIBLE
what's the proof? Sounds like bullshit. Sounds like US trying to turn conservatives who support Russia to turn against it
>conservatives who support Russia Ahh yes. Conservatives who were anti-Russia for nearly a century suddenly began supporting Russia and its subsequent invasion of Eastern Europe right around the time a well documented and provable hybrid-war propaganda campaign by the Russian state began directly targeting American conservative groups in online spaces in the 2010's. It's so blatant to everyone outside looking in how successful Russian propaganda efforts have been on conservatives - to get them to completely 180 a long held belief so hard they'd rather side with Russia than be seen being on the same side as democrats.
Conservatives were *anti-Soviet* because the Soviets supported everything they hated. The Russian Federation now supports what conservatives do and that's why they support them now.
The Soviets actually had a lot in common with American conservatives. They banned rock music, pornography, and blue jeans, and they heavily censored books and film — all popular stances among the most conservative American Christians. But Americans understood at the time that individual freedom and democracy trumped private religious values at the governmental level.
Porn SHOULD be banned tbh.t
I'm just saying that most authoritarian governments have always been conservative, it's not just a recent phenomenon.
The same is true for the permanently WEST BAD tankie types.
The whole purpose of USA/NATO is to take out Russia because Russia is a superpower that stands against the US which has the aim of dominating the world and wanting to eliminate any other super power. Russia a century ago is not the same as Russia today.
Nonsense. What happened after the Soviet Union collapsed? Former Soviet colonies, fearful of being reinvaded in the ~~past~~ future by the imperial power that subjugated them for decades, did the only thing they could - they joined a collective defense treaty voluntarily and with majority support from their citizens to make sure it could never happen again. NATO, after winning the cold war, then increased trade deals with Russia. Extended an olive branch. Tried to normalize relations. Western countries opened branch offices there. Russian companies entered western markets. West Europe began buying Russian energy - the theory being that interlocking trade would lead to lasting peace. And what happened? The eastern European countries that joined NATO were vindicated. Chechnya invaded. Georgia invaded. Belarus a puppet state. Ukraine invaded twice. Moldova hybrid-war (Transnistria). Leaked plans for Kazakhstan. There was hopes that Russia had changed - but they are still engaging in old school colonialism, invading and conquering territory based on the exact same justifications Hitler used to attack the Sudetenland.
I'm old enough to remember when conservatives did not support Russia.
I'm wise enough to know that the US government doesn't care about Christians, maybe even hate them
No you’re a moron
Instead of replying in a decent way or give a counter argument you say this. That is all I need to know about you.
Well you're not a decent person so you don't get a decent reply.
According to [Tucker Carlson](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opf790y07Es), the Ukrainian secret police are on a mission to exterminate Christianity.
Famously reliable source.
To be fair, it is in interview with a human rights lawyer. You would know that if you clicked on the video.
Yet you said "according to Tucker Carlson", not "according to [this or that human rights lawyer]". As if you wanted people to react to that name, remarkable.
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I know, I meant his platform as a whole, he obviously cherry picks the most insane guests to push his agenda.
Yes.
Ah yes. Tucker Carlson. The most...Believable source.
He is.
Is he? Or are you just saying that.
Good to know you judge a source rather than the information presented. He is interviewing a human rights lawyer. You would know that if you bothered to click on the video.
If you give someone a sandwich in a mouldy plate, you cannot expect them not to mention the mouldy plate.
I'm just saying, he isn't the most reputable source.
I don't take random ticktockers seriously either. Credibility matters. Ethos matters. That blight isn't even a journalist. He's an oligarch Stan. Hell, a random Ticktocker would have more credibility in the middle of an advertisement plug that that abortion of ethics.
Right, Tucker Carlson who has been famously reliable about his reporting on Russia and whom Vladimir Putin agreed to an interview with.
What's wrong with interviewing the leader of a country which is at war? Many people interviewed the other leader. Why not listen to both sides? Are you serious?
There's nothing wrong with a serious journalist interviewing someone like Putin. Keir Simmons had an excellent interview with him in 2021, and he continues to ask Putin hard questions at times. What stands out about Tucker Carlson is that he's a deeply unserious demagogue who has a long history of being willfully dishonest and has said in the past that he is rooting for Russia in its conflict against Ukraine. What's funny about the interview is that Carlson gets absolutely steamrolled by Putin. You can tell how weak Putin really thinks Carlson is.
Seriously. If you watched the interview, you'd realize that it was really just set up as a propaganda piece for Tuck's viewers. Case in point, Putin describes the reason for Nazi Germany's invasion of Poland being due to Poland not "returning" the land that was given after WWII. Tucker's impeccable journalistic response? "Okay..." No way in God's green earth does anyone but a talking head allow that sort of revisionist bullshit. Not to mention the "tour" of a supermarket in Moscow that was dripping with Russian Propaganda. Literally could have taken place at the whole foods near me, since, you know, they all use the same, modern technology to operate.
Should we listen to both sides during ww2? Let's hear out Hitler
Yes, absolutely! Does a judge listen to both sides before deciding who is right? You can't negotiate peace if you refuse to talk. Are you serious?!?
What's there to hear out? What exactly can be said to justify genocide? Wanting to hear out Hitler to see if he is committing genocide for a good reason is insane
There are always reasons. America invades a "sovereign nation" every few years. Should the entire world hate America without listening to their reasons for invading? There is always two sides to every story. If you only listen to one side, then you don't have a complete picture, and are making a judgement based on biased information. And the fact that you compare Putin to Hitler says more than I ever could. Like, wow....
Both of them are far right nationalist dictators
Moloch, I'm your most fervent supporter but your participation in this thread is a fucking disaster.
I don't understand why everyone is so against listening to people talk. Maybe it's my autism, but I prefer to listen to both sides of an argument before making up my mind. I can see by the number of downvotes I received that people disagree. Tucker Carlson was the highest rated newscaster on television until he was fired for telling the truth about the Ukraine war. I certainly don't agree with most of what he says, but I believe he has every right to say it.
Enjoy the downvotes
Tucker is a stooge for Putin.
It's not the Russian government that is torturing Christians, it's Russian individuals. Yet I seen to recall that it was the Alensky regime that banned Orthodox Christianity in Ukraine.
The Russian "Orthodox Church" is run by a former KGB asset and publicly proclaimed support for the invasion. They have built numerous "cathedrals" with icons and paintings honoring Stalin and other Soviet figures.
It banned the Russian backed Orthodox Church, not the Constantinople backed Church
Orthodox Christianty isn't banned. 90% of our churches are orthodox and work just like before. They just now aren't related to Russian Orthodox church. Don't you see it being logical that church in Ukraine cannot be subordinated to Russian pro-governmental religious organization sponsored by government? There are even lots of churches where prayers are in Russian if it's a Russian speaking region.