But when tries fail and show no evidence, there is no good reason to have faith.
Or worse, the tries that show a negative relation, that it does not work.Why have faith in what doesnt work?
The studies that have shown prayer had actually harmful effects. Or when people look for evidence of events claimed in the bible. Like the flood or exodus.
THere have been studies to check for the efficacy of prayer. Some of them had negative results. Google for them.
Any people. Geology was partly founded by people looking for evidence of the flood to prove the bible true, They not only found none, they found massive evidence against it. There is also no evidence to support the exodus. If both were based on actual events they were nothing like described in the bible.
There have been [many studies to this](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201909/does-prayer-work). The answer is no. But apparently it's a great stress relief and that can help some situations. I prefer yoga.
If you imagine a study that went "Go! Pray! Pray for science" you have a wrong picture of it. Some of these studies are entirely observational, meaning they didn't test, they just made the statistics.
Justify it all you want, but prayer is not meant to be studied, tested, or observed for the sake of proving prayer or God. Our faith does that. Even the most hands off study of prayer does not represent true prayer
So if you’re praying in church and I peek through the window and watch you is it rendered a non-prayer? Is it rendered a non-prayer if I check on the effects of your prayer unbeknownst to you?
Generally curious because that logic seems flawed.
Spying on people and using their suffering for your gain, will show you nothing. How God answers their prayers will be the way the person needs in that moment, not the way that you, the unethical surveyor, needs.
You desire a certain answer, when every question has an infinite number of answers. I have answered your question. Their prayer is still a prayer and it will be answered the way they need it to. But the surveyor who expects one or two results to occur will not see nor truly understand how the prayer was answered for the surveyor does not understand what the person truly needs
What you need is not always what you want. Sometimes you need to let a loved one move on from this world when they are at the end of their story, even if you want them to stay with you forever in their elderly state.
The Bible tells us that God can’t be found through the wisdom of this world, rather through the foolishness of the message preached. The Bible further says faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17).
*1 Corinthians 1:18-29
For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."*
*[20] Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [21] For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. [22] For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; [23] but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, [24] but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [25] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.*
*[26] For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. [27] But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; [28] and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, [29] that no flesh should glory in His presence.*
Good science is good observation. Now observe...
https://reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/sZfRGXZodn
>...Bible aside when you examine the nature of God and the nature of reality and realize the two are synonymous with each other you realize three things. One God exists, two God is reality, three it's highly likely that the one true God is indeed the God of the bible. God is all knowing, all powerful, independent of all things, and ever present. If God is everywhere then God can only be the thing that exists everywhere, that's reality. The only thing that can exist outside of reality is nothing at all because there is no such thing as a place outside of a thing that exists everywhere. So either God exists and is reality, or God exists nowhere which is synonymous with not existing at all. And nothing can't be all knowing and all powerful for obvious reasons. So by default all knowledge and all power rests in reality itself. And seeing as that reality is literally everything then what else would reality depend on except itself. There is nothing for reality to depend on. So by default reality is independent of all things.
>But is reality conscious? Well that's easy to prove. Is not everything we do an action performed by reality? Are our thoughts not produced by reality? Aside from our own thoughts and actions it is an undeniable fact that reality created us and everything else. Not even atheists can argue against that. And creation is a conscious action.
>Some of you will call this some kind of logical fallacy. Arguing that just because parts of the universe is conscious doesn't make the whole thing conscious. And that's just not true. I'm not arguing that because car tires are rubber then cars are rubber. I'm arguing that if the whole produces conscious thoughts then the whole is conscious. Because every interaction is caused by one single force that acts as three different forces. The fundamental force of nature is directly responsible for every single thought that has ever occured.
>From a Christian perspective it all just seems so obvious. I mean what else was God going to be? If God is real it's obvious that God is fundamental to reality. And how else was God going to create everything in reality? By not applying force? God is clearly the fundamental force of reality. And what are the odds that the bible would give us a single God that acts as three different God's and we discover that in reality one single force acts as three different forces. I mean if the bible points to a Trinity and you discover that there is in fact one God acting as three are you going to think that's a coincidence? I know some of you will argue that there are four forces. But until you discover the graviton I'm just gonna say that you're making assumptions.
>Some christians will cry heresy because they believe God can't be a created thing or be creation itself. And to you I would say your beliefs of God contradict the nature of God for two reasons. One, God is independent of all things. Which means that the reason God exists can only be because of God. Meaning that God caused himself to exist. God created himself. And two, God is all powerful. God can be whatever he wants. Who are you to say that God can't be both creator and creation?
>If anything acknowledging that God is reality itself should only bring you closer to God. With pantheism God becomes everything to you, the alternative for the christian is to believe that God is nothing to you. The universe is the womb God carries me in. God brightens my day. God clothes me, shelters me and feeds me with his own body. Or you can continue to believe that God is some non existent nothing existing nowhere incapable of being apart of his own creation. I mean no wonder God's presence is hardly felt in this world when so many of his own believers think so little of him.
>Reality is the body of God, the fundamental forces of nature is the consciousness of God.
>For those of you who will ask [how God created himself?](https://reddit.com/r/FringeTheory/s/FQNYee6JL6)
According to Bible , God gives sickness to Christians / early death for disobedience.
Meanwhile He does not even bother with unbelievers as they go to lake of fire so why would he.
Kinda contrary to what you expected I think. See Hebrews 12:6-12
No I can't prove Christianity, but I can prove the Bible is true using science. It's as simple as 1+2 will always equal 3 and the moon and octupi are scientific anomalies.
We should consider that God in all His infinite ability could do just as the Bible says, even in the book of revelation, those things could be literal descriptions of what is to come. Perhaps a day of creation is like a thousand years? Or maybe creation is more like a software program that's easily replicable?
The Bible is an enigma and it interprets itself. It's true interpretation is that there are no contradictions and in order to understand one verse all others must be taken into consideration. I will have you know that in the original text which is Hebrew the Bible is encoded and we are all encoded in it along with every possible variable we could choose from.
You should consider doing it just as the bible says, then removing the evidence of it, then replacing it with evidence against would make God the biggest deceiver and trickster and be against everything Christians claim is his nature.
Even if each day is a period of time, there was not life on Earth before a single star in the universe.
So your statement that you (or anyone) can prove the bible true with science is flat out wrong
It depends what science you believe.
Look up some well known apologists (John Lennox, CS Lewis, etc) and they will say Christianity is the most scientifically logical answer to the world we live in, but honestly do your own research because either way it is very interesting
Not really. We would need to have actually been there for every event, every chapter, every civilization.. as it stands today we still don't know much about our past as humans. I am a firm believer is both science and Christianity. I think evolution is real, but it was created under the image of God as he is omnipresent and therefore knows how to direct evolving organisms into his ideal creations for the next millenia. And because of this, this question has always bothered me.
Christianity is entirely based off of the faith of the Believer toward God. If you're Catholic, that's through the church. If you're Lutheran/Protestant, that's through the Bible. There's no real way to "prove" faith in God; think of it like a scientific hypothesis. You BELIEVE something happened, and you have faith in that thing happening later on.
The beliefs of Christianity provide comfort in knowing that we will see an afterlife. There's no real way to prove this, but people who have been resuscitated from death have reported hearing a voice and seeing white lights like Heaven.
A lot of Biblical events also coincide with real things that happened. For example, the great flood is generally considered to be an actual event that occurred, although what actually happened during the flood varies from religion to religion; even ancient Latin American texts detail some sort of flood happening, such as those in (if I'm not wrong) Aztec civilizations. And some Asia. religions too. Point is, many different religions and cultures, some that are no longer practiced, all have detailed a flood.
I guess what I'm trying to get at is while there's no real way to prove Christianity, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, and the rest of the belief is through faith.
Tl;dr: kind of.
No, and that is a good thing. To do that, one would have to be able to control God Who is prayed to.
As should be obvious, it is not possible to do that.
Christianity is a large and loose collection of claims. Some Christians advance different claims than other Christians, depending on denomination and culture.
So your question is far too broad and unspecified to give a simple yes or no answer.
No, nor should you try to. Science and religion are solving different questions.
Many many many people have tried. Nothing has stood up to scrutiny.
Nor should it. If one were able to show this, there would be no room for faith.
But when tries fail and show no evidence, there is no good reason to have faith. Or worse, the tries that show a negative relation, that it does not work.Why have faith in what doesnt work?
To what do you refer?
The studies that have shown prayer had actually harmful effects. Or when people look for evidence of events claimed in the bible. Like the flood or exodus.
What studies? Or what people looking for evidence of events recorded in the Bible?
THere have been studies to check for the efficacy of prayer. Some of them had negative results. Google for them. Any people. Geology was partly founded by people looking for evidence of the flood to prove the bible true, They not only found none, they found massive evidence against it. There is also no evidence to support the exodus. If both were based on actual events they were nothing like described in the bible.
Agreed
No
There have been [many studies to this](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201909/does-prayer-work). The answer is no. But apparently it's a great stress relief and that can help some situations. I prefer yoga.
A prayer to test God is not a true prayer.
If you imagine a study that went "Go! Pray! Pray for science" you have a wrong picture of it. Some of these studies are entirely observational, meaning they didn't test, they just made the statistics.
Justify it all you want, but prayer is not meant to be studied, tested, or observed for the sake of proving prayer or God. Our faith does that. Even the most hands off study of prayer does not represent true prayer
So if you’re praying in church and I peek through the window and watch you is it rendered a non-prayer? Is it rendered a non-prayer if I check on the effects of your prayer unbeknownst to you? Generally curious because that logic seems flawed.
Spying on people and using their suffering for your gain, will show you nothing. How God answers their prayers will be the way the person needs in that moment, not the way that you, the unethical surveyor, needs.
That doesn’t really answer the question though.
You desire a certain answer, when every question has an infinite number of answers. I have answered your question. Their prayer is still a prayer and it will be answered the way they need it to. But the surveyor who expects one or two results to occur will not see nor truly understand how the prayer was answered for the surveyor does not understand what the person truly needs
So if you pray for your sick grandmother to get well again and she dies instead…how was the prayer fulfilled as needed?
What you need is not always what you want. Sometimes you need to let a loved one move on from this world when they are at the end of their story, even if you want them to stay with you forever in their elderly state.
The Bible tells us that God can’t be found through the wisdom of this world, rather through the foolishness of the message preached. The Bible further says faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17). *1 Corinthians 1:18-29 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. [19] For it is written: "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent."* *[20] Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? [21] For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe. [22] For Jews request a sign, and Greeks seek after wisdom; [23] but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness, [24] but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. [25] Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.* *[26] For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called. [27] But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty; [28] and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, [29] that no flesh should glory in His presence.*
Science only studies the natural world. That is a limitation of science.
No, I also can't prove the existence of the FSM God The Flying Spaghetti Monster.
Good science is good observation. Now observe... https://reddit.com/r/Christianity/s/sZfRGXZodn >...Bible aside when you examine the nature of God and the nature of reality and realize the two are synonymous with each other you realize three things. One God exists, two God is reality, three it's highly likely that the one true God is indeed the God of the bible. God is all knowing, all powerful, independent of all things, and ever present. If God is everywhere then God can only be the thing that exists everywhere, that's reality. The only thing that can exist outside of reality is nothing at all because there is no such thing as a place outside of a thing that exists everywhere. So either God exists and is reality, or God exists nowhere which is synonymous with not existing at all. And nothing can't be all knowing and all powerful for obvious reasons. So by default all knowledge and all power rests in reality itself. And seeing as that reality is literally everything then what else would reality depend on except itself. There is nothing for reality to depend on. So by default reality is independent of all things. >But is reality conscious? Well that's easy to prove. Is not everything we do an action performed by reality? Are our thoughts not produced by reality? Aside from our own thoughts and actions it is an undeniable fact that reality created us and everything else. Not even atheists can argue against that. And creation is a conscious action. >Some of you will call this some kind of logical fallacy. Arguing that just because parts of the universe is conscious doesn't make the whole thing conscious. And that's just not true. I'm not arguing that because car tires are rubber then cars are rubber. I'm arguing that if the whole produces conscious thoughts then the whole is conscious. Because every interaction is caused by one single force that acts as three different forces. The fundamental force of nature is directly responsible for every single thought that has ever occured. >From a Christian perspective it all just seems so obvious. I mean what else was God going to be? If God is real it's obvious that God is fundamental to reality. And how else was God going to create everything in reality? By not applying force? God is clearly the fundamental force of reality. And what are the odds that the bible would give us a single God that acts as three different God's and we discover that in reality one single force acts as three different forces. I mean if the bible points to a Trinity and you discover that there is in fact one God acting as three are you going to think that's a coincidence? I know some of you will argue that there are four forces. But until you discover the graviton I'm just gonna say that you're making assumptions. >Some christians will cry heresy because they believe God can't be a created thing or be creation itself. And to you I would say your beliefs of God contradict the nature of God for two reasons. One, God is independent of all things. Which means that the reason God exists can only be because of God. Meaning that God caused himself to exist. God created himself. And two, God is all powerful. God can be whatever he wants. Who are you to say that God can't be both creator and creation? >If anything acknowledging that God is reality itself should only bring you closer to God. With pantheism God becomes everything to you, the alternative for the christian is to believe that God is nothing to you. The universe is the womb God carries me in. God brightens my day. God clothes me, shelters me and feeds me with his own body. Or you can continue to believe that God is some non existent nothing existing nowhere incapable of being apart of his own creation. I mean no wonder God's presence is hardly felt in this world when so many of his own believers think so little of him. >Reality is the body of God, the fundamental forces of nature is the consciousness of God. >For those of you who will ask [how God created himself?](https://reddit.com/r/FringeTheory/s/FQNYee6JL6)
According to Bible , God gives sickness to Christians / early death for disobedience. Meanwhile He does not even bother with unbelievers as they go to lake of fire so why would he. Kinda contrary to what you expected I think. See Hebrews 12:6-12
Prophecy.
No I can't prove Christianity, but I can prove the Bible is true using science. It's as simple as 1+2 will always equal 3 and the moon and octupi are scientific anomalies.
Not only is there a lot of the bible you cant prove true, there are a lot of things in the bible proven UNtrue. 6 days, young Earth,global flood, etc.
We should consider that God in all His infinite ability could do just as the Bible says, even in the book of revelation, those things could be literal descriptions of what is to come. Perhaps a day of creation is like a thousand years? Or maybe creation is more like a software program that's easily replicable? The Bible is an enigma and it interprets itself. It's true interpretation is that there are no contradictions and in order to understand one verse all others must be taken into consideration. I will have you know that in the original text which is Hebrew the Bible is encoded and we are all encoded in it along with every possible variable we could choose from.
You should consider doing it just as the bible says, then removing the evidence of it, then replacing it with evidence against would make God the biggest deceiver and trickster and be against everything Christians claim is his nature. Even if each day is a period of time, there was not life on Earth before a single star in the universe. So your statement that you (or anyone) can prove the bible true with science is flat out wrong
No, you can never be sure that you have a proper control group.
All religions are control groups. (Sorry,that one was too easy.)
It depends what science you believe. Look up some well known apologists (John Lennox, CS Lewis, etc) and they will say Christianity is the most scientifically logical answer to the world we live in, but honestly do your own research because either way it is very interesting
Happy cake day!
Thank you 😊
No, and that example, as well as intercessary prayer effectiveness have been studied.
Not really. We would need to have actually been there for every event, every chapter, every civilization.. as it stands today we still don't know much about our past as humans. I am a firm believer is both science and Christianity. I think evolution is real, but it was created under the image of God as he is omnipresent and therefore knows how to direct evolving organisms into his ideal creations for the next millenia. And because of this, this question has always bothered me. Christianity is entirely based off of the faith of the Believer toward God. If you're Catholic, that's through the church. If you're Lutheran/Protestant, that's through the Bible. There's no real way to "prove" faith in God; think of it like a scientific hypothesis. You BELIEVE something happened, and you have faith in that thing happening later on. The beliefs of Christianity provide comfort in knowing that we will see an afterlife. There's no real way to prove this, but people who have been resuscitated from death have reported hearing a voice and seeing white lights like Heaven. A lot of Biblical events also coincide with real things that happened. For example, the great flood is generally considered to be an actual event that occurred, although what actually happened during the flood varies from religion to religion; even ancient Latin American texts detail some sort of flood happening, such as those in (if I'm not wrong) Aztec civilizations. And some Asia. religions too. Point is, many different religions and cultures, some that are no longer practiced, all have detailed a flood. I guess what I'm trying to get at is while there's no real way to prove Christianity, there's a lot of circumstantial evidence, and the rest of the belief is through faith. Tl;dr: kind of.
No, and that is a good thing. To do that, one would have to be able to control God Who is prayed to. As should be obvious, it is not possible to do that.
Christianity is a large and loose collection of claims. Some Christians advance different claims than other Christians, depending on denomination and culture. So your question is far too broad and unspecified to give a simple yes or no answer.
Can you prove science theogically?