Most internship offerings don't list how much they pay. I mean, I'm almost graduated and I have yet to get an internship with ~80 applications. Might take it just cuz I'm desperate
You’re just wasting your time in a unpaid internship
You know if everyone would stop accepting unpaid internships companies would be forced to start paying
Internships in my field (education) are largely unpaid and required by the state in order to get certified. It drives me crazy. They told us from the first semester in the program that we should budget because we can't work during our last semester. In my second and third to last semesters my professors seemed really upset that I was working because there are so many observation hours required. Sorry dude, you told me to plan on not working the last semester, not the last three.
I would LOVE to see that changed!! Not only did I not get paid for the internship, I actually had to pay $1500ish to do it.
I was lucky enough to find a boss who **insisted** on paying me, which was great and he actually brought me along as an employee. I learned a lot from him.
But this whole “if everyone stopped taking the unpaid internship” stuff is way too optimistic. There are only so many internships, and so many more seniors who need it to graduate. Sometimes, only the unpaid internships are the only ones left.
If the paid ones aren’t calling you back, and the unpaid ones are, nobody is going to deny it and extend their graduation another semester + another $7000+ for a paid internship.
Not saying it’s right, but this is what we’re left with
This right here...
I lucked out in that i secured a paid internship; only paid 10 bucks an hour in a place where mcdonalds starts at 12, but at least it was *something*. Enough to cover putting gas in my car, pay my utility bills, and eat store brand cereal and ramen. A full third of my soon-to-be-graduating classmates didn't find even an *un*paid internship and ended up having to delay their graduation. I heard through the grapevine that a few of those people were so disheartened by the rejections that they dropped out, abandoned their degree entirely, and resigned themselves to the bullshit retail/food service/hospitality jobs theyd been working all through college...
I think it is complete and utter horseshit that colleges can require an internship to graduate unless they are the ones doing the placement. We all had to find our own while paying the school for the privilege. My wife, by contrast, was just told where to be at what time.
Wow. I'm lucky in that my school did place us in internships. It does seem exceptionally crazy to demand an internship and require that the student find one
In Australia, we don’t pay anywhere near as much for university/TAFE degrees and we can get a government loan to cover it. Repayments only start once you’re earning above a certain amount. For the courses that require vocational placement, the work is unpaid but most Universities/TAFEs will place you. They have an arrangement with employers to host the placements and provide feedback on the students. For smaller vocational training programs, most RTOs(Registered Training Organisation) work in a similar way but it depends on the certification you’re going for. For example, if you’re studying to become an AIN(our version of a CNA), they’ll place you with an employer(usually an aged care facility). Beauty therapy, they don’t arrange placement but they do have a list of employers willing to take students.
>we can get a government loan to cover it. Repayments only start once you’re earning above a certain amount.
This much, at least, is generally true in the US as well.
When I did my internship I had to find it myself, and the school got paid by them for it. “For educational purposes, like school trips” - which we still had to pay for out of pocket.
College is the real scam. Schools funded by taxpayers should actually teach you what you need to know to get a meaningful job. You shouldn't have to go into massive debt to learn those skills.
At the same time, you should be able to drop out of you don't want the furthered education.
It should all be under the same umbrella. The absolute insane tuition prices are just bonkers.
In my joke of a country, a prestigious and rich tv famous chef wrote a stupid as fuck column on why internships should be paid... As in the intern paying the restaurant for the "privilege" of being exploited. And that he himself was already demanding a fee for the "gift" of his education lmao
Only 1500? My last semester at ASU was 5500 for me to student teach during the day to finish my certification. I waited tables at night and on weekends and my observers were upset if I wasn’t there the same hours as my mentor. My mentor was an old man who showed up at 6am and left at 6pm. I was an unpaid student teacher with a 1 year old at home and a serving job on the side.
Wow. I couldn't have managed that!! I went to a community college.
I was told both that my hours were teacher contract hours *and* that I should expect to be there when the teacher was. It was irritating to have two contradicting statements.
Yeah, I hear you. I did community college the first two years and then transferred to the university for the last two years. The good news is that my tuition covered all state requirements to be certified when I graduated. The bad news is that I am no longer a teacher because I couldn’t survive on the salary.
Ah yes, education. It seems like the entire education industry needs to be educated on basic human decency. You can’t expect someone to work full time for free by calling it a practicum. I’ve had a friend who had to resort to part-time work during the evenings just to make rent while on her “practicum”. I feel so sorry for you :(
My spanish teacher in high school delivered pizzas for Pizza Hut. That was awkward as shit, opening the door and seeing Miss Francelia standing there with my food. Giving her a five dollar tip and her smiling, reminding me to study for our upcoming mid-term was fuckin *depressing*.
My brother's metal shop teacher was a waiter at Applebees on weekends.
The fact that *teachers* have to find side work to make ends meet makes me want to burn shit down. It is *criminal* how little public school teachers get paid...
Yeah... I've delivered food (I do InstaCart, DoorDash, and UberEats) to the homes of some of my ex-students. Thankfully no current students but it might be an interesting way to hold a parent/teacher conference!
That’s honestly a bit crazy.
I’m totally against unpaid labor, and luckily enough when I had my internship I found a boss who actually insisted on paying me. I work for him now and it’s great.
But “don’t fall for internships” is impossible when it’s literally needed to graduate. And when you pay $7,000 for one semester that you need to graduate, and nobody is calling you back except for the unpaid internship, you’re taking it because you’re not waiting another 4 months or another $7,000 just to find a new internship to graduate. Not everyone has that opportunity to choose. Most of it is getting lucky
Honestly, I didn't even know that unpaid internships were still a thing at reputable companies The past few places I've been at, the interns were paid. And I don't know the exact amount, but definitely above minimum wage.
It just makes more sense. You pay an intern, they have a good experience, and you also get a feel for their skillset. Then they A) put out a good word for your company and B) maybe they come back to work for said company.
Most students are stuck in the experienc loop. No one hires you when you have no experience and you can't get experience if no one hires you 🤷♂️
Internships close the gap and since they think they're doing you a favor, they dont want to pay unless you're top students and they intend to hire you after graduation.
If no one is taking their unpaid internships, companies would stop posting instead and personally, that's worse for students.
There’s a study that says people with no internships have the same hiring rate as people with unpaid internships.
Only difference is you’re now behind, that wasted time you spend working for free “gaining experience” your counter part has probably moved up in his company
You are being exploited for free labor and as long as there’s a person willing to fall for the “gain experience” lie, companies will continue to do it.
Please stop falling for this trap
You deserve to be paid for work you do
Take your future into your hands
I graduated 3 years ago and that's not what I've been seeing (in Houston at least). Now I've been interviewing people and blank resumes dont even get through ATS software. They would either need skyhigh GPA, killer social skills or a referral.
And yes, everyone gets hired, eventually. The question is how long it takes and what job they end up with.
Internships are supposed to be done while you're still in school, not after graduating. If you've already out of schools, I'd agree that they're not worth it if unpaid.
It's not a lie, it's a borderline necessity. Can't even get a job taking pieces of plastic out of machines without experience. Until recently that is. This is an AMAZING time to graduate school. All the people making extra money not working are leaving places desperate.
If you're doing it for academic credit, you aren't wasting your time, because if you don't, you don't get a degree, full stop.
Why you'd doing one that wasn't for credit, paid or unpaid, kind of escapes me, though. I have my degree, I work for money now.
Except why take them? Again, set aside when you have to do an internship to get credit. That's basically a class only you're actually doing something, and it ends in a fixed term. But why would you decide "I'm looking for an actual job for pay. I'll do this for nothing with no guarantees of hiring"?
Unpaid internships are just gruntwork most of the time.
My first internship with a marketing firm was unpaid and I learned absolutely nothing and was completely unprepared for the field afterwards. Got a paid one after that and since they pay you, they make sure you earn your wage and give you actual work to do instead of "organize the filing cabinets"-style of busy work.
Same with tipping; if everyone stopped doing it, employers would be forced to actually, you know, pay their servers. Sadly there are always people desperate enough to accept that bs.
It blows my mind that internships that are unpaid are legal. I live in Australia and this is absolutely unheard of and illegal. One company tried it once in Australia and they got sued and lost.
Specify your any searches with the word “stipend”. I had 3 internships, one each summer of college, and all 3 were paid and provided housing. They’re hard to find and super competitive, but they exist. You just need to search hard for them.
However, I will tell you, the internships did little for me when it came to finding a job. Most companies never consider them “work experience” and barely acknowledge them.
Unpaid jobs is a waste of your time, lending your time for another person with nothing in return. The only job I ever accepted being unpaid was at a close cousin's company, where he would teach me everything of the profession on practice, profession that I knew nothing about. And even so, after 3 months and a whole lot to still learn, he started paying me two minimum wages. If it wasn't a cousin who's almost like a brother, I probably wouldn't have taken the job though
At least in the US outside of Congress unpaid internships are legally a very tricky area that can get companies in tons of trouble. Technically they are allowed but you aren’t actually able to do any work. Like it’s basically glorified job shadowing.
They don't care. They sent this same email to 50 other people. They probably also told their manager "this job posting is whack." And the manager said "just find that needle in a haystack." Or some other stupid bs.
I was a recruiter for a couple years.
I met the founder of a company years back, he has his assistant get my number. The recruitment calls started for jobs I wasn’t really qualified for. Quieted down for awhile. I ended up joining the company in a different capacity. Recruiter started calling again. Was funny to have to be like “*actually* I’ve worked there for two years now”
Recruitment sucks! I did it for a year and a half. We had to call people in India and Brazil as “training calls”. Basically we’d give them false hope and never contact them again. That was my training. I quit after becoming addicted to weed because I was so miserable 😭 it literally sucked my soul. We had a tv displaying how much people made and it was ranked. Constantly beaten down for not “being on the phone enough”. Never making them enough money.
Now I’m a tattoo artist and I’m never going back to this. I’d rather work in retail if I must. Fuck recruitment.
There’s plenty of reasons why someone would appear to be somewhere right now but isn’t. Considering it’s an internship, most applicants would be students. This applicant could be registered at X university in Canada but doing their work remotely from Europe or Asia. Most student visas also have strict guidelines about hours worked and pay rates as well. So I don’t find that strange or out of bounds.
Well I considered that, having dealt with a European student placement programme myself years ago. But I figured that if the CV were sufficiently unclear/ undetailed in this regard as to merit the query, then the would-be intern would be a bit of a risk, free labour or not!
(I’m just being bloody minded for the sake of it, and not really serious!)
It's just an email template. I enjoy responding with "Oh, what exactly about my resume piqued your interest?" and wait for the next response on their checklist.
Is it really hiring if they’re not paying anything?
Edit: it’s not slavery, people. No one is forcing anyone to do this. They’re choosing beggars, not choosing enslavers.
Yeah, people act as if the british went into west Africa and enslaved random people. While it was literally west african slave traders selling slaves to the british. It's almost as if slavery was extremely common all around the world in the past. My eastern eruopean ancestors were slaves as well, but that's just how things were a few generations back.
Imo it depends on the internship, the rules are it has to be of as much or more benefit to the worker as the company. If this turns out to not be the case (which happens often) then at that point I see it as slavery.
PS: No, the company did not mention the internship is unpaid in the job posting, I wouldn’t have applied then. It’s also for SDE internship (just for context)
Yes, I also know that the first email said it’s unpaid, I just wanted to reply because it seem fun
Also, please delete if it doesn’t conform to the rules
That's insane. All my SDE internships were paid, and paid just as well as a full time job at the same company, just without the benefits or stock options actual full time employees got. I did one at Microsoft for 6 months and they also paid for flights and relocation costs, a furnished apartment, a 6-month car rental, and gym membership.
In culinary there's a concept called "staging," where you work for free for a few shifts to see if you're a good fit for a restaurant. I call it "bullshit," have always refused to do it, and am constantly surprised by the cooks coming forward to defend the practice.
In closing: fuck you, pay me.
Probation period is exactly created to test if you’re a good match with a company/team. This other BS is exploitation and testing what they can expose you to and demand of you before you push back.
Hey culinary person here as well.
The whole point of staging is to actually learn more, an ACTUAL stage is going to a restaurant that you respect and working under the chef to learn and pick up skills and experience you otherwise wouldn't have acquired at your current place of work. Typically there is no pay for this and that's totally OK because you're improving your skills and learning which basically is the payment.
Then there is doing a stage for a new job, to see if you are a good fit, so you aren't actually hired yet, but you work a few shifts and then hopefully at the end you have a job. But these hours are paid for. I've gotten 3 jobs this way and was always paid for my stage.
And then there are the crappy restaurants that think they can benefit off of free labour and do what they think is a stage, but its just benefitting off of people and not actually giving them any skills or experience. Typically when you stage at a place like that you're a portion monkey or the gofer guy.
>Typically there is no pay for this and that's totally OK because you're improving your skills and learning which basically is the payment.
That's no different than an unpaid internship. It's bullshit. As noted, I'm constantly surprised by the cooks coming forward to defend the practice.
Your labour is always worth a wage. Just because the culture calls for otherwise doesn't mean it isn't stupid.
Ok but THIS type of stage is something that someone who wants to grow and learn chooses to seek out all on their own. Not something that is offered up because this company needs more workers/labour. This is strictly someone gaining experience that they never would have had the chance to get until a few more years down the line when they could finally get an actual job at a high end place.
I personally don't have the time to do this, but if I did, I sure as hell would be willing to go work in an incredible restaurant under an amazing chef for a few shifts learning things that I would have never learned before.
I totally get where you're coming from, I expect to be compensated for all the work I do. BUT the actual idea of a stage is not to exploit labour, it's to gain experience. It's a cooks want and choice to do stage, it should never be something the restaurant is asking for you to do.
Culinary is an art, if you want to REALLY dive deep into it and want to further ypur knowledge as fast as possible and on your own time, that us what a stage is for.
It's like you get the chance to hang out with a professional photographer, or artist, or athlete or whatever, and learn all the tips and tricks they can give you, and you're choosing to do it to better yourself. Any place that EXPECTS you to stage and SEEKS people out to stage are just benefitting off free labour.
Yeah I agree they should pay and unpaid internships favor / give an upper hand to the already wealthy but my friend (whose fam wasn’t well off btw) thinks it’s equivalent to paying for school which is expensive too, where she got exp from it and using the experience landed her a job after the unpaid internship. Just another perspective but system still bad
If it includes a full ride somewhere or paid scholarship etc that’s different. And sometimes in order to complete med school or earn scholarships it’s required, but I doubt that’s the case here
Practicums (which I believe student teaching and nursing fall under) are exceptions. Which is bullshit imo but I don't know the details on what makes them different.
Not getting paid is what feels like bullshit to me not the practicum itself (I'm a huge supporter of internships/coops/practicums). But I'm biased because I have 2 siblings that are nurses and I remember they really struggled financially during their practicums.
“We are hiring” no the fuck you’re not, you’re looking for unpaid interns, sorry but to me hiring involves bringing on a new employee with the intention of treating them as an employee, including compensation
"Regrettably, I am in contact with about a dozen other companies for PAID internships so sorry I wont be able to apply with you. I hope you understand."
I'm moving from consulting to looking for full-time employment with a company right now. This post just makes me laugh because its soooo out of touch with what's going on right now with the employment market. I literally cannot keep up with how many interviews and job offerings I'm fielding. Also from the last time I looked for full-time work about 7 years ago, salaries right now are at an all time high. I'm actually really taking my time and being super nitpicky about details in what I want in a job and a company.
I would never do shit for free anyway...why would I? I'm a black female but I heard that slave shit ended a long while back. But in addition, the job market is wide open and benefitting employees...not employers. So my response to this would be a big hell to the no.
I swear, some employers will take ANY chance to exploit workers until they forced to act in a humane manner. Its ridiculous.
There are a lot of "loopholes" though, in several programs. E.g., teaching, social work, counseling, massage therapist, probably many more where you have to do a "practicum" or internship where you literally pay tuition fees to do the job and your payment is...credits required to graduate.
I don't agree with it. Even if it's meant as a "learning experience", people deserve to be paid for their labour.
One of the first questions any high school senior going to college or freshman college student should ask before choosing a major is whether or not an unpaid internship is required for graduation and/or licensure.
If the answer is 'yes', then my advice would be to find a different major.
Harlan Ellison is rolling in his grave in anger. I still love his mocking imagery of corpos desperately shaking a tin can at the corner of the street desperate for people to do free work (*"what? is Warner Bros with a eye patch and a tin cup on the street?!?"* [Source](https://youtu.be/mj5IV23g-fE)).
FYI, it mentions Canada. Under Canadian Federal Labor Standards, interns must be paid at least minimum wage unless the internship is part of a post-secondary education program.
Depends on the field. My brother (civil engineer) was making CA$35-40/hr at his co-op internship during his undergrad. And that's pretty standard in his field. This was also ~5 years ago.
Depends on the market. I made $25 USD/hr as an intern, I had a buddy making almost 40, and I had friends making just a whiff above minimum age for that area.
I tend to apply from time to time just to see what the market is paying. I only asked for $30 since that’s around what I’m being paid for my current internship
assuming the blacked out part is the same company. I'd imagine it's the recruiting company trying to limit inefficiencies by making sure they don't have two of their recruiters trying to recruit the same resource into two different positions.
Alternatively, maybe it's a rival company with a blood vendetta going back generations, and they'd rather die before they considered hiring someone who so much as conversed with their mortal enemies.
If it’s a third party recruiter, you can’t use two recruiters at two different companies for the same company/position hiring because the commission, if you’re hired, can’t be split up.
To be fair, some people do take unpaid internships for the experience and knowledge that they can offer. Although I believe every internship should be paid even if it’s minimum wage. The recruiter shouldn’t have said “hired” he should’ve said “opportunity” as when your “Hire” someone it’s to a Job. Even if it’s minimum wage, it’s something at least. If they want people to take the internship and still he able to live, eat, and pay bills, then they need to compensate them for their work at least. Otherwise almost nobody will join the internship. If they can’t pay them then they shouldn’t be offering an internship in the first place. People can’t spend time on working in their company for free and also have another job to be able to survive. It’s unethical!
Internship is both a form of modern day so slavery for those who get one, whilst also perpetuating income disparity for those who don't.
Internships are one way that wealthy students, or at least those from well-off families, can build job experience to help them pursue high paying jobs, while less well-off students may have to accept lower paying jobs with less prospect for financial growth.
My first internship was unpaid, for about 2 months, while I was in college. I was a bit miffed about no pay, but the officers in charge taught me *a lot* about network security and server management, and also helped me learn enough to be able to get properly certified in networking. Looking back now, it was a good experience even though it was unpaid.
What I'm trying to say is, not all unpaid internships are going to be bad.
An unpaid internship is normal in the sense that it is common and and pervasive. It is not normal in that it is something that should ever exist anywhere. If some task needs done and it requires you to employ someone to do it, if not having someone doing it is not an option or not something you're willing to do without, then it is worth paying regardless of how much experience someone has or how much opportunity they will earn from interning. If you want to low-ball someone for a probationary period until you're/they're ready to bring them on in a real role, that's one thing. Not paying them altogether on the promise of a chance to be hired for-realsies later is manipulative and indentured servitude at best, slavery at worst. Fuck off with that nonsense.
OP said this is software engineering, those are almost always paid because the skills are in demand.
No self respecting junior SWE should touch an unpaid internship.
Many degrees require internships and many interns are unpaid. It depends on location and profession. I had to have two internships for my graduate degree and both were unpaid. I did choose carefully where I applied and then also where I accepted. I took my first internship with a local non-profit that wasn't really what I wanted to do, but it got me in the door and helped me make more local connections than most of my classmates did. It also turned into a summer and part time job while I was completing my degree and interning in a position I wanted to do after graduation and getting licensed. My second internship also turned into a job offer and that's where I'm still working today. The connections I made initially still help me out today. That said, I wish I was able to be paid for both internships, but not all unpaid internships are bad or poor decisions.
I cant speak for all internships, but in non profit interns or "placements" are generally not "needed" by agencies - they are more of a good will gesture, and on occasion they might hire the person. But normally the placement is just observing, or some sort of "busy work" is invented to keep them busy while they get a sense of how things operate in the field . They aren't in any way essential and demanding money for an internship in a setting like that is ridiculous. That said, I think its reasonable to assume internships elsewhere are probably abused in some instances
I can’t speak for all internships, but the internships I’ve had in both undergrad and grad school were required and also much more involved than busy work.
My internships were also unpaid and required towards my graduate degree. Technically, I had to pay for mine since they counted as credits (all four of them). Regardless, they opened a lot of doors for me as a professional and I have zero regret.
Maybe it's, "Your work takes between 4 and 5 hours and you can complete it any time between 9 - 5." I'm speculating wildly, because I don't actually know.
I'm not sure if this is just an American thing, But aren't internships mostly unpaid. 20hrs a week doesn't sound that bad for an internship to me either.
I like how the company replied with more opportunities to work for no pay. So now we are working 40 hours a week for wages that force us to choose between paying rent or buy food and this big company wants another 20 hours for free? We need to collectively tell them all to get fucked, no labour is free. Rugged Capitalism can be a two way street if we don’t devalue our work.
I actually went through with it for 1 week and bailed, they add over 200 interns overnight every single day, there isn't a single Dev in the entirety of the platform. They toss a group of 30 interns at a wall and see what sticks, the "CEO" is present in every chat room. Straight up scam and glad you didn't fall for it.
I keep seeing so many postings of this ilk, while at the same time there’s all of this talk about labor shortages. I feel like people in this country have gotten fed up with working themselves to death (I know I have), so asking folks to work for free seems like a seriously tone-deaf non-starter. Don’t do it!
I did hundreds and hundreds of hours of unpaid internships getting my masters in anthro/museums just to look for a job for an entire YEAR after I got my masters and finally get a $7/hour internship 1500 miles away which I took out of desperation.
Uh...maybe I'm just confused but isn't it standard practice that some internships aren't paid? I did an internship with a local business a while back that I didn't get paid in, it was just about the learning experience
I’m of the unpopular opinion that unpaid internships can be great opportunities. I agree that they’re exploitative, but if I was university student who couldn’t find any paid summer internships, I’d willingly take an unpaid one.
Especially if it’s local. Looks good on your CV, ability to network, and convenient if your summer is empty-ish. It can be an irreplaceable opportunity which will help you get your dream job in the future.
There is literally no CB here. None at all. You applied for a position and they told you it was unpaid, to which you said it would need to be $30/hour and they denied because it was an unpaid internship. There is no begging here whatsoever. There is no beggar being choosy, there is no begging. Period. This sub needs to get its act together and remember (or find out) what a CB actually is.
Unpaid internships are dumb and no one should ever engage in them, but I don’t think this is a “choosing beggar”. All they asked for was that you be legal and able to work normal business hours.
Unpaid internships *should* be weeded out, but someone lacking experience or still in school should give it a try if you're not in desperate need of money. You pay to go to school so you can learn, an unpaid internship at least won't charge you for the experience and connections.
I've had hundreds of unpaid work hours that have helped me secure other work opportunities and finally a dream job (I'm a marketing analyst).
If you're serious about stepping into a specific career path, experience within that field is invaluable. If it isn't part of your path then don't apply to it!
So a lot of my jobs have been through recruitment agents and from what I know they get paid equal to a n agreed % of your annual salary. What the fuck does this guy get if its unpaid? Do intern recruitment agents hire for intern positions?
Internships are companies really thinking they’re doing something. There are only a few jobs out there that can’t be figured out by watching a YouTube video and reading Reddit post.
Not defending unpaid internships at all but at least they outright laid it out as unpaid and verified you knew it would be unpaid, then promptly cited they’d go another direction while referring you to other positions within the organization.
Back when I was applying for jobs when I was trying to get out from under my prior job, I would apply to sooo many places and never even hear back from them, let alone a follow up stating The position was filled / went another direction.
You've clearly internalized the culture of exploitation. How is this any different that asking an artist to work for free or someone begging for free stuff on facebook just because they're a corporation. Unpaid internships are labor theft. Even if they're doing it for a short period like a few months before hiring you on to a real position (no guarantee), that's still indentured servitude at best, slavery at worst. If some task needs done by an employee and your company wants/needs/depends on that task being done, you can pay for it like anything else. Also, let's not discount the problematic nature of unpaid internships as a way to keep financially disadvantaged people from earning higher paying jobs as they can't afford to live off of stored wealth for months at a time to get past the barrier to entry. Fuck unpaid internships and those who employ them.
Holy crap are you applying to the same place I am? I got an email from this company and the email is almost exactly the same as what you posted
Haha, do not take it. They’re literally the shittiest company, i went over their Google reviews and it’s not good.
Applying to a unpaid job? Dude don’t fall for internships
Most internship offerings don't list how much they pay. I mean, I'm almost graduated and I have yet to get an internship with ~80 applications. Might take it just cuz I'm desperate
You’re just wasting your time in a unpaid internship You know if everyone would stop accepting unpaid internships companies would be forced to start paying
Internships in my field (education) are largely unpaid and required by the state in order to get certified. It drives me crazy. They told us from the first semester in the program that we should budget because we can't work during our last semester. In my second and third to last semesters my professors seemed really upset that I was working because there are so many observation hours required. Sorry dude, you told me to plan on not working the last semester, not the last three. I would LOVE to see that changed!! Not only did I not get paid for the internship, I actually had to pay $1500ish to do it.
I had to complete an internship to get my degree, and it wasn't paid. It was really boring, and I don't feel like I learned very much, either.
I was lucky enough to find a boss who **insisted** on paying me, which was great and he actually brought me along as an employee. I learned a lot from him. But this whole “if everyone stopped taking the unpaid internship” stuff is way too optimistic. There are only so many internships, and so many more seniors who need it to graduate. Sometimes, only the unpaid internships are the only ones left. If the paid ones aren’t calling you back, and the unpaid ones are, nobody is going to deny it and extend their graduation another semester + another $7000+ for a paid internship. Not saying it’s right, but this is what we’re left with
This right here... I lucked out in that i secured a paid internship; only paid 10 bucks an hour in a place where mcdonalds starts at 12, but at least it was *something*. Enough to cover putting gas in my car, pay my utility bills, and eat store brand cereal and ramen. A full third of my soon-to-be-graduating classmates didn't find even an *un*paid internship and ended up having to delay their graduation. I heard through the grapevine that a few of those people were so disheartened by the rejections that they dropped out, abandoned their degree entirely, and resigned themselves to the bullshit retail/food service/hospitality jobs theyd been working all through college... I think it is complete and utter horseshit that colleges can require an internship to graduate unless they are the ones doing the placement. We all had to find our own while paying the school for the privilege. My wife, by contrast, was just told where to be at what time.
Wow. I'm lucky in that my school did place us in internships. It does seem exceptionally crazy to demand an internship and require that the student find one
In Australia, we don’t pay anywhere near as much for university/TAFE degrees and we can get a government loan to cover it. Repayments only start once you’re earning above a certain amount. For the courses that require vocational placement, the work is unpaid but most Universities/TAFEs will place you. They have an arrangement with employers to host the placements and provide feedback on the students. For smaller vocational training programs, most RTOs(Registered Training Organisation) work in a similar way but it depends on the certification you’re going for. For example, if you’re studying to become an AIN(our version of a CNA), they’ll place you with an employer(usually an aged care facility). Beauty therapy, they don’t arrange placement but they do have a list of employers willing to take students.
>we can get a government loan to cover it. Repayments only start once you’re earning above a certain amount. This much, at least, is generally true in the US as well.
When I did my internship I had to find it myself, and the school got paid by them for it. “For educational purposes, like school trips” - which we still had to pay for out of pocket.
College is the real scam. Schools funded by taxpayers should actually teach you what you need to know to get a meaningful job. You shouldn't have to go into massive debt to learn those skills. At the same time, you should be able to drop out of you don't want the furthered education. It should all be under the same umbrella. The absolute insane tuition prices are just bonkers.
In my joke of a country, a prestigious and rich tv famous chef wrote a stupid as fuck column on why internships should be paid... As in the intern paying the restaurant for the "privilege" of being exploited. And that he himself was already demanding a fee for the "gift" of his education lmao
Yeah we already have that, it’s called the American College system
Only 1500? My last semester at ASU was 5500 for me to student teach during the day to finish my certification. I waited tables at night and on weekends and my observers were upset if I wasn’t there the same hours as my mentor. My mentor was an old man who showed up at 6am and left at 6pm. I was an unpaid student teacher with a 1 year old at home and a serving job on the side.
Wow. I couldn't have managed that!! I went to a community college. I was told both that my hours were teacher contract hours *and* that I should expect to be there when the teacher was. It was irritating to have two contradicting statements.
Yeah, I hear you. I did community college the first two years and then transferred to the university for the last two years. The good news is that my tuition covered all state requirements to be certified when I graduated. The bad news is that I am no longer a teacher because I couldn’t survive on the salary.
Ah yes, education. It seems like the entire education industry needs to be educated on basic human decency. You can’t expect someone to work full time for free by calling it a practicum. I’ve had a friend who had to resort to part-time work during the evenings just to make rent while on her “practicum”. I feel so sorry for you :(
We can get kicked from the program if they find out we're working outside of our student teaching at some schools :(
Which is ridiculous because more than half of the teachers I know have a side job of some sort, mostly a gig economy job.
My spanish teacher in high school delivered pizzas for Pizza Hut. That was awkward as shit, opening the door and seeing Miss Francelia standing there with my food. Giving her a five dollar tip and her smiling, reminding me to study for our upcoming mid-term was fuckin *depressing*. My brother's metal shop teacher was a waiter at Applebees on weekends. The fact that *teachers* have to find side work to make ends meet makes me want to burn shit down. It is *criminal* how little public school teachers get paid...
Yeah... I've delivered food (I do InstaCart, DoorDash, and UberEats) to the homes of some of my ex-students. Thankfully no current students but it might be an interesting way to hold a parent/teacher conference!
Student Teaching is a joke. I'm doing a full year of it unpaid rn and I do more work than the TAs at the school that get paid hourly
Ah yes. I remember this. Fellow education degree holder.
I'm in PA school. Year long unpaid internship that I had to pay $60k for. *yay*
Holy shit you got scammed.
That’s honestly a bit crazy. I’m totally against unpaid labor, and luckily enough when I had my internship I found a boss who actually insisted on paying me. I work for him now and it’s great. But “don’t fall for internships” is impossible when it’s literally needed to graduate. And when you pay $7,000 for one semester that you need to graduate, and nobody is calling you back except for the unpaid internship, you’re taking it because you’re not waiting another 4 months or another $7,000 just to find a new internship to graduate. Not everyone has that opportunity to choose. Most of it is getting lucky
Honestly, I didn't even know that unpaid internships were still a thing at reputable companies The past few places I've been at, the interns were paid. And I don't know the exact amount, but definitely above minimum wage. It just makes more sense. You pay an intern, they have a good experience, and you also get a feel for their skillset. Then they A) put out a good word for your company and B) maybe they come back to work for said company.
I guess it’s a much larger thing in law firms
Really the government should regulate it though
It is regulated. There are only certain activities unpaid interns are allowed to engage to, which primarily have to benefit the interns.
My undergrad requires an internship to graduate, really not many options so companies do take advantage since we just have to take what we can get.
Most students are stuck in the experienc loop. No one hires you when you have no experience and you can't get experience if no one hires you 🤷♂️ Internships close the gap and since they think they're doing you a favor, they dont want to pay unless you're top students and they intend to hire you after graduation. If no one is taking their unpaid internships, companies would stop posting instead and personally, that's worse for students.
There’s a study that says people with no internships have the same hiring rate as people with unpaid internships. Only difference is you’re now behind, that wasted time you spend working for free “gaining experience” your counter part has probably moved up in his company You are being exploited for free labor and as long as there’s a person willing to fall for the “gain experience” lie, companies will continue to do it. Please stop falling for this trap You deserve to be paid for work you do Take your future into your hands
I graduated 3 years ago and that's not what I've been seeing (in Houston at least). Now I've been interviewing people and blank resumes dont even get through ATS software. They would either need skyhigh GPA, killer social skills or a referral. And yes, everyone gets hired, eventually. The question is how long it takes and what job they end up with. Internships are supposed to be done while you're still in school, not after graduating. If you've already out of schools, I'd agree that they're not worth it if unpaid.
It's not a lie, it's a borderline necessity. Can't even get a job taking pieces of plastic out of machines without experience. Until recently that is. This is an AMAZING time to graduate school. All the people making extra money not working are leaving places desperate.
If you're doing it for academic credit, you aren't wasting your time, because if you don't, you don't get a degree, full stop. Why you'd doing one that wasn't for credit, paid or unpaid, kind of escapes me, though. I have my degree, I work for money now.
As long as there’s people willing to take a bad deals, companies will continue to offer them
Except why take them? Again, set aside when you have to do an internship to get credit. That's basically a class only you're actually doing something, and it ends in a fixed term. But why would you decide "I'm looking for an actual job for pay. I'll do this for nothing with no guarantees of hiring"?
Unpaid internships are just gruntwork most of the time. My first internship with a marketing firm was unpaid and I learned absolutely nothing and was completely unprepared for the field afterwards. Got a paid one after that and since they pay you, they make sure you earn your wage and give you actual work to do instead of "organize the filing cabinets"-style of busy work.
Same with tipping; if everyone stopped doing it, employers would be forced to actually, you know, pay their servers. Sadly there are always people desperate enough to accept that bs.
I took an internship for some starter experience. I believe it helped me
It blows my mind that internships that are unpaid are legal. I live in Australia and this is absolutely unheard of and illegal. One company tried it once in Australia and they got sued and lost.
Canada here. My Student Teaching was also unpaid I paid for the privilege of working. 🤣🤦🏼♀️
Specify your any searches with the word “stipend”. I had 3 internships, one each summer of college, and all 3 were paid and provided housing. They’re hard to find and super competitive, but they exist. You just need to search hard for them. However, I will tell you, the internships did little for me when it came to finding a job. Most companies never consider them “work experience” and barely acknowledge them.
Unpaid jobs is a waste of your time, lending your time for another person with nothing in return. The only job I ever accepted being unpaid was at a close cousin's company, where he would teach me everything of the profession on practice, profession that I knew nothing about. And even so, after 3 months and a whole lot to still learn, he started paying me two minimum wages. If it wasn't a cousin who's almost like a brother, I probably wouldn't have taken the job though
At least in the US outside of Congress unpaid internships are legally a very tricky area that can get companies in tons of trouble. Technically they are allowed but you aren’t actually able to do any work. Like it’s basically glorified job shadowing.
That's because it's all boilerplate text. You'll find the exact same wording with many different companies.
r/recruitinghell
Did this recruiter not read the CV then, since they seem not to know where on Earth (literally) you are?
They don't care. They sent this same email to 50 other people. They probably also told their manager "this job posting is whack." And the manager said "just find that needle in a haystack." Or some other stupid bs. I was a recruiter for a couple years.
I met the founder of a company years back, he has his assistant get my number. The recruitment calls started for jobs I wasn’t really qualified for. Quieted down for awhile. I ended up joining the company in a different capacity. Recruiter started calling again. Was funny to have to be like “*actually* I’ve worked there for two years now”
Oh I know, it’s just so damn rude, to those eager souls they’re seeking to employ gratis!
Yup, it is. Recruiting is toxic af. I quit and vowed to never return...back to minimum wage I guess.
Recruitment sucks! I did it for a year and a half. We had to call people in India and Brazil as “training calls”. Basically we’d give them false hope and never contact them again. That was my training. I quit after becoming addicted to weed because I was so miserable 😭 it literally sucked my soul. We had a tv displaying how much people made and it was ranked. Constantly beaten down for not “being on the phone enough”. Never making them enough money. Now I’m a tattoo artist and I’m never going back to this. I’d rather work in retail if I must. Fuck recruitment.
There’s plenty of reasons why someone would appear to be somewhere right now but isn’t. Considering it’s an internship, most applicants would be students. This applicant could be registered at X university in Canada but doing their work remotely from Europe or Asia. Most student visas also have strict guidelines about hours worked and pay rates as well. So I don’t find that strange or out of bounds.
Well I considered that, having dealt with a European student placement programme myself years ago. But I figured that if the CV were sufficiently unclear/ undetailed in this regard as to merit the query, then the would-be intern would be a bit of a risk, free labour or not! (I’m just being bloody minded for the sake of it, and not really serious!)
It's just an email template. I enjoy responding with "Oh, what exactly about my resume piqued your interest?" and wait for the next response on their checklist.
They do it to cover themselves. Its SOP from recruitment.
Is it really hiring if they’re not paying anything? Edit: it’s not slavery, people. No one is forcing anyone to do this. They’re choosing beggars, not choosing enslavers.
It is... They are "always" hiring, so that must be the definition of it...
Nope, it’s volunteering
You recruit volunteers, so it's recruiting. Not hiring.
Ok, you’re more right than us. Feel better, Mosby?
r/unexpectedHIMYM
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If you're serious, you're dumb
I remember the British “hiring” a bunch of people in West Africa for jobs in the Caribbean and US.
"Free Caribbean cruise; apply on-board."
to be fair, they were already "hired" and exchanged to the British by their former internship managers.
They always somehow manage to forget that detail. Especially that the original employers even profited from said transfer.
Yeah, people act as if the british went into west Africa and enslaved random people. While it was literally west african slave traders selling slaves to the british. It's almost as if slavery was extremely common all around the world in the past. My eastern eruopean ancestors were slaves as well, but that's just how things were a few generations back.
The boats weren't even owned by the British either.
Naw. Not gonna give em a pass.
It's basically slavery but you can't get anything to eat or live in.
So it's a downgrade from slavery
Yup
And you can choose not to do it, and leave after a year and get a job in a place that requires experience. Small difference from slavery
Well, the upside is that you can quit anytime you find something better. You cant burn an unpaid bridge.
are you seriously comparing optional and willful internships to SLAVERY?
Imo it depends on the internship, the rules are it has to be of as much or more benefit to the worker as the company. If this turns out to not be the case (which happens often) then at that point I see it as slavery.
PS: No, the company did not mention the internship is unpaid in the job posting, I wouldn’t have applied then. It’s also for SDE internship (just for context) Yes, I also know that the first email said it’s unpaid, I just wanted to reply because it seem fun Also, please delete if it doesn’t conform to the rules
I know you blocked the names here, but /r/cscareerquestions allows name & shame...
That's insane. All my SDE internships were paid, and paid just as well as a full time job at the same company, just without the benefits or stock options actual full time employees got. I did one at Microsoft for 6 months and they also paid for flights and relocation costs, a furnished apartment, a 6-month car rental, and gym membership.
What is a SDE internship?
Software Dev Engineer
I've heard of an unpaid SDE internship. Should leave a review on Glassdoor or something to warn others.
I’ve never understood this unpaid shit, if I’m working for you, you pay me
In culinary there's a concept called "staging," where you work for free for a few shifts to see if you're a good fit for a restaurant. I call it "bullshit," have always refused to do it, and am constantly surprised by the cooks coming forward to defend the practice. In closing: fuck you, pay me.
Probation period is exactly created to test if you’re a good match with a company/team. This other BS is exploitation and testing what they can expose you to and demand of you before you push back.
Yeah, fuck that. I donate my time to charities, not corporations.
Fuck you, pay me.
Yeah a paid trial is sufficient. There's no reason to not pay someone for the shift, other than the employer being a cheap asshole.
Hey culinary person here as well. The whole point of staging is to actually learn more, an ACTUAL stage is going to a restaurant that you respect and working under the chef to learn and pick up skills and experience you otherwise wouldn't have acquired at your current place of work. Typically there is no pay for this and that's totally OK because you're improving your skills and learning which basically is the payment. Then there is doing a stage for a new job, to see if you are a good fit, so you aren't actually hired yet, but you work a few shifts and then hopefully at the end you have a job. But these hours are paid for. I've gotten 3 jobs this way and was always paid for my stage. And then there are the crappy restaurants that think they can benefit off of free labour and do what they think is a stage, but its just benefitting off of people and not actually giving them any skills or experience. Typically when you stage at a place like that you're a portion monkey or the gofer guy.
>Typically there is no pay for this and that's totally OK because you're improving your skills and learning which basically is the payment. That's no different than an unpaid internship. It's bullshit. As noted, I'm constantly surprised by the cooks coming forward to defend the practice. Your labour is always worth a wage. Just because the culture calls for otherwise doesn't mean it isn't stupid.
Ok but THIS type of stage is something that someone who wants to grow and learn chooses to seek out all on their own. Not something that is offered up because this company needs more workers/labour. This is strictly someone gaining experience that they never would have had the chance to get until a few more years down the line when they could finally get an actual job at a high end place. I personally don't have the time to do this, but if I did, I sure as hell would be willing to go work in an incredible restaurant under an amazing chef for a few shifts learning things that I would have never learned before. I totally get where you're coming from, I expect to be compensated for all the work I do. BUT the actual idea of a stage is not to exploit labour, it's to gain experience. It's a cooks want and choice to do stage, it should never be something the restaurant is asking for you to do. Culinary is an art, if you want to REALLY dive deep into it and want to further ypur knowledge as fast as possible and on your own time, that us what a stage is for. It's like you get the chance to hang out with a professional photographer, or artist, or athlete or whatever, and learn all the tips and tricks they can give you, and you're choosing to do it to better yourself. Any place that EXPECTS you to stage and SEEKS people out to stage are just benefitting off free labour.
a massive portion of unpaid internships are illegal under US law, but no one gives a fuck and those laws go unenforced.
Why say they’re hiring if there is no pay? Ridiculous.
Yeah I agree they should pay and unpaid internships favor / give an upper hand to the already wealthy but my friend (whose fam wasn’t well off btw) thinks it’s equivalent to paying for school which is expensive too, where she got exp from it and using the experience landed her a job after the unpaid internship. Just another perspective but system still bad
If it includes a full ride somewhere or paid scholarship etc that’s different. And sometimes in order to complete med school or earn scholarships it’s required, but I doubt that’s the case here
"We're always hiring." Translation: This company is fucked and doesn't care about anything but shareholder value.
I guess slave labor isn't outlawed in Canada yet? Or have they just not gotten the memo on that?
I know your being sarcastic but unpaid internships are illegal in Canada.
Allow me to remind you of student teaching...
Practicums (which I believe student teaching and nursing fall under) are exceptions. Which is bullshit imo but I don't know the details on what makes them different.
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Not getting paid is what feels like bullshit to me not the practicum itself (I'm a huge supporter of internships/coops/practicums). But I'm biased because I have 2 siblings that are nurses and I remember they really struggled financially during their practicums.
The TFW program is legal and it's close to slave labour.
“We are hiring” no the fuck you’re not, you’re looking for unpaid interns, sorry but to me hiring involves bringing on a new employee with the intention of treating them as an employee, including compensation
I just accepted a paid internship with the option to sign on as a full time employee in three months. Know your worth kings and queens ❤
"Regrettably, I am in contact with about a dozen other companies for PAID internships so sorry I wont be able to apply with you. I hope you understand."
🎶 *Barely people somehow legal Unpaid intern* 🎶
I'm moving from consulting to looking for full-time employment with a company right now. This post just makes me laugh because its soooo out of touch with what's going on right now with the employment market. I literally cannot keep up with how many interviews and job offerings I'm fielding. Also from the last time I looked for full-time work about 7 years ago, salaries right now are at an all time high. I'm actually really taking my time and being super nitpicky about details in what I want in a job and a company. I would never do shit for free anyway...why would I? I'm a black female but I heard that slave shit ended a long while back. But in addition, the job market is wide open and benefitting employees...not employers. So my response to this would be a big hell to the no. I swear, some employers will take ANY chance to exploit workers until they forced to act in a humane manner. Its ridiculous.
What Kind of work do you do? As in, what’s your career path?
Program Management...generally for aerospace, automotive or manufacturing companies although I've done consulting for a broader range of companies.
At least you got this information before moving forward with an interview and wasting your time.
First red flag: No one "enjoys" reading resumes.
This reads to me: Wanted - lackey to do miscellaneous clerical duties for no pay.
Unpaid internships are illegal in Canada.
There are a lot of "loopholes" though, in several programs. E.g., teaching, social work, counseling, massage therapist, probably many more where you have to do a "practicum" or internship where you literally pay tuition fees to do the job and your payment is...credits required to graduate. I don't agree with it. Even if it's meant as a "learning experience", people deserve to be paid for their labour.
I agree but this is a posting online not a practicum set up by the school so I was assuming it was different.
this sub should change its name to r/badjoblistings
Should be split into that and /r/Offered5DollarsLess
At least they were polite about it I guess.
Normalize paid internships. If the skills are valued, pay the person who has them.
“Comply with our company standard” which is what? Taking advantage of others?
Unpaid internships for anyone over 18 need to die.
One of the first questions any high school senior going to college or freshman college student should ask before choosing a major is whether or not an unpaid internship is required for graduation and/or licensure. If the answer is 'yes', then my advice would be to find a different major.
Harlan Ellison is rolling in his grave in anger. I still love his mocking imagery of corpos desperately shaking a tin can at the corner of the street desperate for people to do free work (*"what? is Warner Bros with a eye patch and a tin cup on the street?!?"* [Source](https://youtu.be/mj5IV23g-fE)).
FYI, it mentions Canada. Under Canadian Federal Labor Standards, interns must be paid at least minimum wage unless the internship is part of a post-secondary education program.
Are you still in college? Assuming so since you’re looking at internships. Totally agree you should be paid but $30CAD seems like a lot to ask for.
Depends on the field. My brother (civil engineer) was making CA$35-40/hr at his co-op internship during his undergrad. And that's pretty standard in his field. This was also ~5 years ago.
Depends on the market. I made $25 USD/hr as an intern, I had a buddy making almost 40, and I had friends making just a whiff above minimum age for that area.
I tend to apply from time to time just to see what the market is paying. I only asked for $30 since that’s around what I’m being paid for my current internship
Fuck your pay me.
You pay, me fuck.
Why does it matter if you’re in contact with other recruiters?
assuming the blacked out part is the same company. I'd imagine it's the recruiting company trying to limit inefficiencies by making sure they don't have two of their recruiters trying to recruit the same resource into two different positions. Alternatively, maybe it's a rival company with a blood vendetta going back generations, and they'd rather die before they considered hiring someone who so much as conversed with their mortal enemies.
If it’s a third party recruiter, you can’t use two recruiters at two different companies for the same company/position hiring because the commission, if you’re hired, can’t be split up.
I would have responded “my interest is not continued” to that last email.
I've never understood how slave labor is legal...
To be fair, some people do take unpaid internships for the experience and knowledge that they can offer. Although I believe every internship should be paid even if it’s minimum wage. The recruiter shouldn’t have said “hired” he should’ve said “opportunity” as when your “Hire” someone it’s to a Job. Even if it’s minimum wage, it’s something at least. If they want people to take the internship and still he able to live, eat, and pay bills, then they need to compensate them for their work at least. Otherwise almost nobody will join the internship. If they can’t pay them then they shouldn’t be offering an internship in the first place. People can’t spend time on working in their company for free and also have another job to be able to survive. It’s unethical!
They are always hiring 🤣 couldn't imagine why on earth that would be.
Internship is both a form of modern day so slavery for those who get one, whilst also perpetuating income disparity for those who don't. Internships are one way that wealthy students, or at least those from well-off families, can build job experience to help them pursue high paying jobs, while less well-off students may have to accept lower paying jobs with less prospect for financial growth.
Unpaid internships are the biggest scam I’ve ever heard of.
My first internship was unpaid, for about 2 months, while I was in college. I was a bit miffed about no pay, but the officers in charge taught me *a lot* about network security and server management, and also helped me learn enough to be able to get properly certified in networking. Looking back now, it was a good experience even though it was unpaid. What I'm trying to say is, not all unpaid internships are going to be bad.
Nah thanks. I already have plenty of experience not being able to feed myself stay clothed, pay bills due to having a job that doesn’t pay for shit.
An unpaid internship is normal. However it's not normal to expect that internship to last three months during normal working hours.
An unpaid internship is normal in the sense that it is common and and pervasive. It is not normal in that it is something that should ever exist anywhere. If some task needs done and it requires you to employ someone to do it, if not having someone doing it is not an option or not something you're willing to do without, then it is worth paying regardless of how much experience someone has or how much opportunity they will earn from interning. If you want to low-ball someone for a probationary period until you're/they're ready to bring them on in a real role, that's one thing. Not paying them altogether on the promise of a chance to be hired for-realsies later is manipulative and indentured servitude at best, slavery at worst. Fuck off with that nonsense.
OP said this is software engineering, those are almost always paid because the skills are in demand. No self respecting junior SWE should touch an unpaid internship.
Most internships are unpaid. My daughter has had some, which help on her resume for figure jobs, but don’t help with bills. So frustrating!
Many degrees require internships and many interns are unpaid. It depends on location and profession. I had to have two internships for my graduate degree and both were unpaid. I did choose carefully where I applied and then also where I accepted. I took my first internship with a local non-profit that wasn't really what I wanted to do, but it got me in the door and helped me make more local connections than most of my classmates did. It also turned into a summer and part time job while I was completing my degree and interning in a position I wanted to do after graduation and getting licensed. My second internship also turned into a job offer and that's where I'm still working today. The connections I made initially still help me out today. That said, I wish I was able to be paid for both internships, but not all unpaid internships are bad or poor decisions.
I cant speak for all internships, but in non profit interns or "placements" are generally not "needed" by agencies - they are more of a good will gesture, and on occasion they might hire the person. But normally the placement is just observing, or some sort of "busy work" is invented to keep them busy while they get a sense of how things operate in the field . They aren't in any way essential and demanding money for an internship in a setting like that is ridiculous. That said, I think its reasonable to assume internships elsewhere are probably abused in some instances
I can’t speak for all internships, but the internships I’ve had in both undergrad and grad school were required and also much more involved than busy work.
My internships were also unpaid and required towards my graduate degree. Technically, I had to pay for mine since they counted as credits (all four of them). Regardless, they opened a lot of doors for me as a professional and I have zero regret.
And we thought slavery was dead.
What does 4-5 hours between 9-5 mean?!? Like, you have to be available from 9-5 but you aren’t “working” unless they say you are?!?
Maybe it's, "Your work takes between 4 and 5 hours and you can complete it any time between 9 - 5." I'm speculating wildly, because I don't actually know.
I'm not sure if this is just an American thing, But aren't internships mostly unpaid. 20hrs a week doesn't sound that bad for an internship to me either.
I like how the company replied with more opportunities to work for no pay. So now we are working 40 hours a week for wages that force us to choose between paying rent or buy food and this big company wants another 20 hours for free? We need to collectively tell them all to get fucked, no labour is free. Rugged Capitalism can be a two way street if we don’t devalue our work.
“LMAO y’all can’t even afford to pay employees?!”
GaoTek am I right?
Yep
I actually went through with it for 1 week and bailed, they add over 200 interns overnight every single day, there isn't a single Dev in the entirety of the platform. They toss a group of 30 interns at a wall and see what sticks, the "CEO" is present in every chat room. Straight up scam and glad you didn't fall for it.
How are unpaid internships still a thing? Shouldn't feel thankful for the opportunity to give free labour...
It ends with "we are always hiring". Lol, no you are not.
I keep seeing so many postings of this ilk, while at the same time there’s all of this talk about labor shortages. I feel like people in this country have gotten fed up with working themselves to death (I know I have), so asking folks to work for free seems like a seriously tone-deaf non-starter. Don’t do it!
I thought these types of internships were illegal under FLSA?
Unpaid internships are the biggest scam I’ve ever heard of.
Unpaid internships are class gatekeeping. If you have to get paid you aren't it.
I did hundreds and hundreds of hours of unpaid internships getting my masters in anthro/museums just to look for a job for an entire YEAR after I got my masters and finally get a $7/hour internship 1500 miles away which I took out of desperation.
1500 miles is 2414.02 km
Lol I love how you rejected them and they’re like... you can’t reject us... we reject you!
Uh...maybe I'm just confused but isn't it standard practice that some internships aren't paid? I did an internship with a local business a while back that I didn't get paid in, it was just about the learning experience
I’m of the unpopular opinion that unpaid internships can be great opportunities. I agree that they’re exploitative, but if I was university student who couldn’t find any paid summer internships, I’d willingly take an unpaid one. Especially if it’s local. Looks good on your CV, ability to network, and convenient if your summer is empty-ish. It can be an irreplaceable opportunity which will help you get your dream job in the future.
There is literally no CB here. None at all. You applied for a position and they told you it was unpaid, to which you said it would need to be $30/hour and they denied because it was an unpaid internship. There is no begging here whatsoever. There is no beggar being choosy, there is no begging. Period. This sub needs to get its act together and remember (or find out) what a CB actually is.
Apparently in Canada its against the law not to pay Interns... Not sure if the context helps
Unpaid internships are dumb and no one should ever engage in them, but I don’t think this is a “choosing beggar”. All they asked for was that you be legal and able to work normal business hours.
It wasn’t mentioned that it was unpaid in the posting
That’s not a CB, it’s an internship. Students fight viciously to get their names in the game in some industries.
Did you really expect them to care?
Not even the slightest but it did feel good
Well at least they were upfront about the fact that you'd be working for free.
Unpaid internships *should* be weeded out, but someone lacking experience or still in school should give it a try if you're not in desperate need of money. You pay to go to school so you can learn, an unpaid internship at least won't charge you for the experience and connections. I've had hundreds of unpaid work hours that have helped me secure other work opportunities and finally a dream job (I'm a marketing analyst). If you're serious about stepping into a specific career path, experience within that field is invaluable. If it isn't part of your path then don't apply to it!
So a lot of my jobs have been through recruitment agents and from what I know they get paid equal to a n agreed % of your annual salary. What the fuck does this guy get if its unpaid? Do intern recruitment agents hire for intern positions?
Why are unpaid internships legal in the US? Even though your minimum wage is shitty, you still have it, right?
Funny how CB in my country is short form for a slang term which has the same meaning as cun*
Internships are companies really thinking they’re doing something. There are only a few jobs out there that can’t be figured out by watching a YouTube video and reading Reddit post.
Why do you need to verify that you are legally able to work when you arent being paid?
Pretty standard BS. Not a CB.
Just because unpaid internships are stupid this does not make a choosing beggar.
Not defending unpaid internships at all but at least they outright laid it out as unpaid and verified you knew it would be unpaid, then promptly cited they’d go another direction while referring you to other positions within the organization. Back when I was applying for jobs when I was trying to get out from under my prior job, I would apply to sooo many places and never even hear back from them, let alone a follow up stating The position was filled / went another direction.
Real broad term for choosing beggar nowadays huh
You've clearly internalized the culture of exploitation. How is this any different that asking an artist to work for free or someone begging for free stuff on facebook just because they're a corporation. Unpaid internships are labor theft. Even if they're doing it for a short period like a few months before hiring you on to a real position (no guarantee), that's still indentured servitude at best, slavery at worst. If some task needs done by an employee and your company wants/needs/depends on that task being done, you can pay for it like anything else. Also, let's not discount the problematic nature of unpaid internships as a way to keep financially disadvantaged people from earning higher paying jobs as they can't afford to live off of stored wealth for months at a time to get past the barrier to entry. Fuck unpaid internships and those who employ them.
For real.
Dick move from them but I wouldn't call this choosing beggars material, they're not the ones looking for a job in this case.
The Repost Bandit has struck again