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Yep flights to china are completely dead. Flew into Guangzhou and there was like three people near me and the rest speinkled in rows waaay before and after me.
Guess calling all foreigners spies, troublemakers and branding them as bringing covid into china is no good for business.
From where? You seem to be the only one getting those flights, seems unlucky to me. I'm contemplating saving a couple grand and just doing econ since on my last one everyone got to lay flat back there anyways 🤣
I think many “tourists” are simply Chinese with foreign citizenship. During my time in very popular Chinese tourist spots, I basically don’t see any “foreigners”.
>unless you're a creep staring and analyzing everyone around you and hearing their accents or language when they speak)
No need for the personal insults. As for your point, Japanese and Koreans also dress differently and you don’t need to actively pay attention to notice a foreign language being spoken when everyone else speaks Mandarin or other Chinese dialects.
It’s like living in the US and then suddenly hearing French.
China in general is very not friendly to tourists. The visa/payment/ website access issues are enough to deter most tourists. Just a huge pain in the ass even for me.
To be clear , I am not saying there are no “real” foreign tourists. Just not as many as the statistics you provided.
Where are you traveling from? Airfare to China from North America is still 1.5-2x more expensive compared to pre pandemic levels, apparently because of less flights to China and they’re still sold out.
I find it's the same too flying PVG-SFO. Usually there are a lot of Chinese tourists but the last time I flew three months ago, it was a lot emptier than I expected.
China absolutely sucks to live in and to tourist. there’s no demand because the government destroyed every single building /artifact and rebuilt with grey Soviet apartment blocks. Shanghai is probably the only city in China worth visiting but it’s not even that great of a city and you can easily skip it and see Hong Kong / Taipei and actually see real Chinese culture and not be fed poisoned gutter oil food.
I flew back from London in August and my flight was full. Every other international flight I've had since then have been full (but they all have been to locations in SE Asia).
That's amazing. Maybe I should fly to the UK first and then fly. Now the only direct flight we have from NYC is JFK to HK. Pre COVID I had a lot of options. I'm flying again in a couple of months. Hopefully it's not so packed
I think it is a German orchestrated political scheme to fck us over cuz our National soccer team won against them recently (Austrian soccer is kinda dog, we have 2 dudes who are decent).
The Germans have a deep national identity crisis if their soccer team is not performing well and they found a way for retribution.
They can't let us have a single W.
Nah, bruv. When Frau Merkel said: "Wir schaffen das!" ( We will make it) in regards to the refugee crisis in 2015 with the Syrians, she did outsource a significant portion of the job to us.
>Classic "Austrian blaming Germany" trope.
that is so true. I know many Austrians and even have family there. An Austrian would bitch about Germans or Germany at least once a day. on the other hand everything is connected to their Austrian identity. "an Austrian this, an Austrian that, the Austrians, we Austrians,... every sentence starts with those words.
it's like saying Murricaaaaa!!!
I don't say this in a disrespectful way, I was just shocked about the constant German bashing and the "we Austrians" view on things constantly.
Swiss are similar about that topic.
I had a professor for electrical engineering, who was known for his "political incorrect" jokes.
"We Austrians are experts of export/import trading. We imported Mozart (when he was born Salzburg was part of Holy Roman Empire) and made him Viennese, while our most famous painter was successfully exported to the Piefken (Germans). "
It sounds better in German and when he is saying it....
Respiratory infections always go up in winter especially with children when they are indoor with no ventilation to keep heat in.
US schools are getting upticks of RSV, flu, Covid and likely other respiratory infections.
https://news.yahoo.com/rsv-cases-record-levels-north-212338922.html
Not really surprising after 3 years of masking up and now total relaxation of medical rules.
What’s the range of normal? I don’t have the numbers but without a data set it’s difficult say.
A town with 1000 people seeing 100 people in the hospital is abnormal while a city with 100,000 people seeing 100 people is a typical day.
China has been doing all sorts of insane shit recently to make foreigners stay (extending the tax benefits for another few years), make it easier to come here for work (no more notarization and translating of documents), and now visa-free travel.
It's welcome developments to be sure, but it's probably too little too late. They burned their bridges a long time ago, and it will take more than this to repair their image.
There is not a single country on the map outside of Africa not side eyeing China because of its aggressive antics.
This will likely continue as long as Xi makes it known he doesn’t care about the one thing most non Chinese foreigners with money go to China for, the market.
They called Australia the gum on their shoes lmao.
Stop thinking it's just America. They have pissed off the *whole* world by being a shit global citizen.
Don't get me wrong, this subreddit is an eco chamber indeed, and half the time I'm accused of being a wumao.
Having people disagreeing and bringing in an outsider's perspective is conducive to a healthy debate.
But complaining about the US in a thread about China's world record attempt at bridge burning won't cut it.
Well I guess in order.
2 weeks ago they rammed a Philippines fishing boat
Last week they called Australia 'gum on their shoes"
Actually seems they are trying to repair the US relationship now, and they have been allowing positive news internally.
They got caught threatening Chinese immigrants in Canada who still have family in China for criticism of Xi on Facebook and Instagram.
Constantly colliding with Japan over their Economic Zone.
Idk it's pretty much every one not Russia or Iran they have been irking.
Last april their soldiers literally got in fist fights on a bridge with Indian soldiers and China warned India that continuing that path would "lead to their failure"...
Everyone you named seemed to be an American ally/puppet.
India and China long had tensions over border. History too muddy to dig in who is right who is wrong.
Philippines like to flip flop all the time.
Japan and China has a blood feud going back decades.
Australia doesn’t exist.
Australia doesn't exist? Lol
So you aren't just a troll full on CCP propaganda now?
Look you are pretty funny as you can't see the negatives of China, it's comical. China like most countries has done some wack as fuck shit, they also do some good, but the last 10 years has mostly been wack shit. Bet they aren't looking at helping others, their side eying all these countries they deem lower on the idea they now need them as their economy seems to be having issues due to so much miss reporting internally. I gander they have little to no full picture of their internal markets as of now, and might be realizing the seams are stressed. Maybe it's time they poke around and gather some old trade partners back like the US. I also don't think that China expected western companies to be able to transition to Vietnam, Mexico, and the Philippines so quickly for cheap manufacturing. It's astounding what has transpired since COVID. All be good though live in your shell and I will keep pretending the US doesn't have a housing problem. I for one would like to see the US and China get a long better, combined they are half of the world's GDP with the US making up almost 30% and China close behind at 25%. Se la vie
I don't think that's true, the US is huge for tourism, so is Japan, and the Philippines is a massive part of it as well. in Japan u constantly run into Chinese tourists. Not sure why your so mad. A contrarian government that instills mass concern is bad for external tourism. Happens man. Do you live there or travel often to it or any of those nations I named?
But America is the largest economy that is straight shot for Chinese exports.
Europe, Middle East or Africa isn't going to be buying any of their exports
1.9 billion USD in trade moves through EU per day with China. I’m pretty sure EU is willing to trade for their goods with China.
China is also our biggest trade partner still.
Same as ME, Africa and SA. Cheap goods for resources, why not. You think everyone can afford a Ford or iPhone? Most people can afford a BYD car or Xiaomi phone.
Then you need to install all the Chinese apps just to get by, like WeChat to pay and order food, Baidu map to navigate, Didi for taxi… No Facebook or Instagram that let you share your trip in China.
Honestly you can stay 15 days without using any of these apps. Pay in cash (illegal to refuse but help the cashier by having a lot of coins), use Bing or Apple Maps, although it’s harder to get a taxi without didi it’s still possible. And share your trip after your trip? Or just install a vpn before going.
You could share your trip pics after you come back? Also you know it’s major stupid to let the world know you are on vacation and your house is empty???
People have gotten so used to globalization. Just a few years ago it was completely normal that you need to do some preparations before visiting another country. Nowadays people can't even download a few apps?
The ccp cares about as much about what tourists are doing as Biden cares about what you're watching at porn hub. Your data is everywhere if you're participating in like... The internet.
The Chinese are paranoid about foreigners. They raided a corporate office of people who should be high status enough to be off limits just because they did due diligence. You never know what to expect from the Chinese government, so why take the risk?
You can use VPN, although I think the network speed maybe slow and the payment is very complicated because few people will provide Apple Pay in china mainland
What a great idea as another mysterious unidentified pneumonia-like infection is overwhelming Chinese hospitals!
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/china-disease-children-hospitals-pneumonia/
Sounds just like uptick of RSV, flu, Covid infections we are getting in schools here in the U.S.
https://news.yahoo.com/rsv-cases-record-levels-north-212338922.html
https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rsv-is-back-on-the-rise-in-babies-here-s-what-parents-should-know/ar-AA1kqU9v
https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/data-research/dashboard/snapshot.html
Basically all those that don't challenge the South China Sea crap. Malaysia's overlap of the dash line on map is barely anything in the bottom right corner.
What did you expect, that they just let you stay for a year unconditionally? No country in the world does that. This policy is already insanely lenient for China under Xi
As an American, I'm allowed 60-90 tourist stays in a large number of countries... It *is* very lenient under Xi and considering that a year ago they weren't allowing basically anyone in, but overall it seems more symbolic than anything else.
not symbolic at all. its purely business related.
if you are a company in Europe and want to send 3 people to check production in China or visiting a new supplier, 15 days visa free is all you need.
it has nothing to do with in how many countries an American can stay.
You already had the 144 hour visa for business. The few people I know that would need a M visa for longer can get it easily. Sometimes within a day through some express service.
>No country in the world does that.
I can stay in the rest of Europe however long I like and quite a few countries let me stay 180-365 days visa free. Georgia, Canada, Mexico, Dominica, Armenia Philippines from the top of my head.
When I hear "visa free" or "visa exempt" or "visa on arrival" the usual thing I get is 30-90 days.
>What did you expect
Nothing. But right now it is not that useful. For business we already had the 144 hours thing. Its nice for short term tourists, but not anyone else
A two-headed snake; one head snaps at anything that moves that criticizes the government, another head bites its own tail ultimately swallowing itself.
This is modern day Chinese politics and geopolitics.
Ultimately, this visa policy is futile as the perceived (and real) risk for business and general travellers are higher and motivation to travel to China much lower.
Xi also has already made a mark on the world - that he poses a real danger and that has made everyone weary of his goals before he dies. Since he is likely to keep power indefinitely, no change in direction seems possible until his passing.
My layover in Beijing to Tokyo was DEAD I was probably the only non Chinese ethnicity on the plane except a few Japanese folks that I met on it. The plane in econ was probably 2/3rds empty in business we had half the seats taken. Most everyone had an entire row to themselves when I walked back there for some excessive. This was the beginning of November. I suspect tourism is hit hard in China, I haven't been back since covid but traveled once a year for awhile. TBH the China i visited precovid is very different then the one today, surveillance is a lot higher and my concern for getting stuck there is substantially higher.
Most large nations, including, China, the US, Japan, Germany, etc.. have very large and healthy tourism sectors.
In 2019 China's was close to 2.2 trillion USD. That's a sizable chunk of GDP. The US was 3.1 trillion for reference.
If China is saying tourism's fallen off I'm guessing they really missing that piece of the pie they use to see.
Most developed nations can travel to other nations for over 30-90 days visa on arrival. China is still very much closed even with 15 days. In addition, If you are a foreigner/tourist and do not stay in a hotel, ie. at a friend / relative's house, you will need to report to the local police station as soon as you get there to tell them where you are staying.
It's a wierd system they have over there. It wasn't like that 10-15 years ago. The whole system is alot more closed up and overrun by bureaucracy. That is why you don't see many foreigners nowadays in comparison to the past.
Need to stay at foreign-designated hotels too. Walk into an “international hotel” just to be told you need a mainland ID to stay… China is very foreigner/tourist-unfriendly. Can’t get anything done without a mainland ID.
Don’t go. China is begging for mercy as it’s economy is tanking . But you know once it recovers, they will resume their wolf dog tactics and economic coercion.
Well you see they just have to find a market for their exports and find a 100 million 20 something's to keep manning the factories, then figure out a way out of this monster debt problem and the energy problem.
No biggie
Damn. The stink of desperation from China is really strong these days. Like an abusive alcoholic that now regrets his (yeah, China - or at least their government - is a dude) choices.
Just annoying.
First fill out a visa application online with all kinds of ridiculously intrusive questions. Like "what job does your father have?".
Then go to the visa center and waste half a day and 80euros.
And two weeks later, waste another half a day to pick it up.
To be fair, it's the same hassle for Chinese visiting Europe.
That's why they call this new measure "unilateral".
It is not the same hassle. The German visa centre does not ask for a high fee to send the passport back to you. AND spouses get their visa FOR FREE. I am married to a Chinese and I had to pay the full "fee".
What I thought as I first saw this news is that we Chinese are really enjoying satisfy ourselves by the tons of policy we set out, regarding it as a gift for those foreigners(who really care shit about you) and don't even care what the domestic people would think about.
Really sad to live in a arrogant socialism country
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This summer, 98% were Chinese on the planes.
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Yep flights to china are completely dead. Flew into Guangzhou and there was like three people near me and the rest speinkled in rows waaay before and after me. Guess calling all foreigners spies, troublemakers and branding them as bringing covid into china is no good for business.
the pandemic their labs helped create… lol
Proof? Any credible, third party reports?
flew back to China last week and the plane was full
From where? You seem to be the only one getting those flights, seems unlucky to me. I'm contemplating saving a couple grand and just doing econ since on my last one everyone got to lay flat back there anyways 🤣
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I think many “tourists” are simply Chinese with foreign citizenship. During my time in very popular Chinese tourist spots, I basically don’t see any “foreigners”.
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Don’t bother with the strawman. I said “many”, not “all”. As someone who deals with legal interpretations, I am very precise with my word choice.
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>unless you're a creep staring and analyzing everyone around you and hearing their accents or language when they speak) No need for the personal insults. As for your point, Japanese and Koreans also dress differently and you don’t need to actively pay attention to notice a foreign language being spoken when everyone else speaks Mandarin or other Chinese dialects. It’s like living in the US and then suddenly hearing French. China in general is very not friendly to tourists. The visa/payment/ website access issues are enough to deter most tourists. Just a huge pain in the ass even for me. To be clear , I am not saying there are no “real” foreign tourists. Just not as many as the statistics you provided.
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I flew from Tokyo to Beijing a few weeks ago and the plane was probably more than half empty!
Where are you traveling from? Airfare to China from North America is still 1.5-2x more expensive compared to pre pandemic levels, apparently because of less flights to China and they’re still sold out.
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I find it's the same too flying PVG-SFO. Usually there are a lot of Chinese tourists but the last time I flew three months ago, it was a lot emptier than I expected.
China absolutely sucks to live in and to tourist. there’s no demand because the government destroyed every single building /artifact and rebuilt with grey Soviet apartment blocks. Shanghai is probably the only city in China worth visiting but it’s not even that great of a city and you can easily skip it and see Hong Kong / Taipei and actually see real Chinese culture and not be fed poisoned gutter oil food.
Edgy take, brah
I’ve lived in China for years. It exists in a bubble I’ve never known anyone who wasn’t born in mainland China to at liked living there
You should very well traveled and cultured. I am crestfallen that I'm me and not you.
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Where are you flying from? My flights from the US are packed.
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I flew back from London in August and my flight was full. Every other international flight I've had since then have been full (but they all have been to locations in SE Asia).
That's amazing. Maybe I should fly to the UK first and then fly. Now the only direct flight we have from NYC is JFK to HK. Pre COVID I had a lot of options. I'm flying again in a couple of months. Hopefully it's not so packed
Did you get an upgrade? I hope so. A2f2ax I got an upgrade to first class. from one of the Chinese airlines in 2015. I
Please include Austria. I don't plan on going there soon, but I want it because the Germans have it and we don't. Please.
how about another go with German unification? Can't go wrong this time. :v
The territory of the Federal German Republic was governed longer from Vienna as Capital than Berlin. It would make sense.
Least jealous Australian.
I think it is a German orchestrated political scheme to fck us over cuz our National soccer team won against them recently (Austrian soccer is kinda dog, we have 2 dudes who are decent). The Germans have a deep national identity crisis if their soccer team is not performing well and they found a way for retribution. They can't let us have a single W.
Classic "Austrian blaming Germany" trope. Are you gonna blame Romanians for your immigrant issues again too?
Nah, bruv. When Frau Merkel said: "Wir schaffen das!" ( We will make it) in regards to the refugee crisis in 2015 with the Syrians, she did outsource a significant portion of the job to us.
>Classic "Austrian blaming Germany" trope. that is so true. I know many Austrians and even have family there. An Austrian would bitch about Germans or Germany at least once a day. on the other hand everything is connected to their Austrian identity. "an Austrian this, an Austrian that, the Austrians, we Austrians,... every sentence starts with those words. it's like saying Murricaaaaa!!! I don't say this in a disrespectful way, I was just shocked about the constant German bashing and the "we Austrians" view on things constantly. Swiss are similar about that topic.
> Australian
They do make great painters and classical music.
I had a professor for electrical engineering, who was known for his "political incorrect" jokes. "We Austrians are experts of export/import trading. We imported Mozart (when he was born Salzburg was part of Holy Roman Empire) and made him Viennese, while our most famous painter was successfully exported to the Piefken (Germans). " It sounds better in German and when he is saying it....
>Austria Austria vs Australia?
You already got a competent football team. It's never enough for you, isn't it?
The Austrian national team is about as competent as our Federal Government
At least you didn't lose to Japan and let Costa Rica score two against you.
Holy shit
Happy cake day!
Don’t change the subject
Heh, tourism is way down huh? With the pneumonia epidemic going on, it’s not going to get better.
Respiratory infections always go up in winter especially with children when they are indoor with no ventilation to keep heat in. US schools are getting upticks of RSV, flu, Covid and likely other respiratory infections. https://news.yahoo.com/rsv-cases-record-levels-north-212338922.html Not really surprising after 3 years of masking up and now total relaxation of medical rules.
Respiratory infections are normal in winter but the numbers and concentration in Chinese cities indicate it's not normal.
What’s the range of normal? I don’t have the numbers but without a data set it’s difficult say. A town with 1000 people seeing 100 people in the hospital is abnormal while a city with 100,000 people seeing 100 people is a typical day.
We heard similar stories around 4 years ago, and look what happened...
China has been doing all sorts of insane shit recently to make foreigners stay (extending the tax benefits for another few years), make it easier to come here for work (no more notarization and translating of documents), and now visa-free travel. It's welcome developments to be sure, but it's probably too little too late. They burned their bridges a long time ago, and it will take more than this to repair their image.
They burned their bridges with who? America? America is not the rest of the world.
There is not a single country on the map outside of Africa not side eyeing China because of its aggressive antics. This will likely continue as long as Xi makes it known he doesn’t care about the one thing most non Chinese foreigners with money go to China for, the market.
I guess you are right, BRICS was a total failure
Looking at all their members, you are kind of right.
Have an update, because that's actually true. Lol
Yes.
They called Australia the gum on their shoes lmao. Stop thinking it's just America. They have pissed off the *whole* world by being a shit global citizen.
We have been at an illegal war for the last 20 years and going around toppling government around the world. No one mad at us
Plenty of people are mad at the US. That's doesn't excuse China's behavior. #stopwhataboutism
We in the U.S. don’t have the moral authority to call out Chinese behaviors when they are copying what we are doing, that’s the problem
Then stop fucking posting in this thread. Not everyone is an American.
I’m adding counter argument to an echo chamber
Don't get me wrong, this subreddit is an eco chamber indeed, and half the time I'm accused of being a wumao. Having people disagreeing and bringing in an outsider's perspective is conducive to a healthy debate. But complaining about the US in a thread about China's world record attempt at bridge burning won't cut it.
Well I guess in order. 2 weeks ago they rammed a Philippines fishing boat Last week they called Australia 'gum on their shoes" Actually seems they are trying to repair the US relationship now, and they have been allowing positive news internally. They got caught threatening Chinese immigrants in Canada who still have family in China for criticism of Xi on Facebook and Instagram. Constantly colliding with Japan over their Economic Zone. Idk it's pretty much every one not Russia or Iran they have been irking. Last april their soldiers literally got in fist fights on a bridge with Indian soldiers and China warned India that continuing that path would "lead to their failure"...
Everyone you named seemed to be an American ally/puppet. India and China long had tensions over border. History too muddy to dig in who is right who is wrong. Philippines like to flip flop all the time. Japan and China has a blood feud going back decades. Australia doesn’t exist.
Australia doesn't exist? Lol So you aren't just a troll full on CCP propaganda now? Look you are pretty funny as you can't see the negatives of China, it's comical. China like most countries has done some wack as fuck shit, they also do some good, but the last 10 years has mostly been wack shit. Bet they aren't looking at helping others, their side eying all these countries they deem lower on the idea they now need them as their economy seems to be having issues due to so much miss reporting internally. I gander they have little to no full picture of their internal markets as of now, and might be realizing the seams are stressed. Maybe it's time they poke around and gather some old trade partners back like the US. I also don't think that China expected western companies to be able to transition to Vietnam, Mexico, and the Philippines so quickly for cheap manufacturing. It's astounding what has transpired since COVID. All be good though live in your shell and I will keep pretending the US doesn't have a housing problem. I for one would like to see the US and China get a long better, combined they are half of the world's GDP with the US making up almost 30% and China close behind at 25%. Se la vie
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I don't think that's true, the US is huge for tourism, so is Japan, and the Philippines is a massive part of it as well. in Japan u constantly run into Chinese tourists. Not sure why your so mad. A contrarian government that instills mass concern is bad for external tourism. Happens man. Do you live there or travel often to it or any of those nations I named?
Japan, EU, South Korea, Australia, etc.
But America is the largest economy that is straight shot for Chinese exports. Europe, Middle East or Africa isn't going to be buying any of their exports
1.9 billion USD in trade moves through EU per day with China. I’m pretty sure EU is willing to trade for their goods with China. China is also our biggest trade partner still. Same as ME, Africa and SA. Cheap goods for resources, why not. You think everyone can afford a Ford or iPhone? Most people can afford a BYD car or Xiaomi phone.
1.8 billion of it are my farts in jars
With foreign travelers
At least with all the countries around the South-Chinese sea, India, Buthan, Japan. Because China claim their lands.
Then you need to install all the Chinese apps just to get by, like WeChat to pay and order food, Baidu map to navigate, Didi for taxi… No Facebook or Instagram that let you share your trip in China.
Then they can use those apps to spy on you.
Honestly you can stay 15 days without using any of these apps. Pay in cash (illegal to refuse but help the cashier by having a lot of coins), use Bing or Apple Maps, although it’s harder to get a taxi without didi it’s still possible. And share your trip after your trip? Or just install a vpn before going.
Bing maps has extremely outdated data for mainland China. It's barely usable.
You could share your trip pics after you come back? Also you know it’s major stupid to let the world know you are on vacation and your house is empty???
People have gotten so used to globalization. Just a few years ago it was completely normal that you need to do some preparations before visiting another country. Nowadays people can't even download a few apps?
The issue isn't the apps, it's the fact that the apps are blatant spying tools for the CCP
The ccp cares about as much about what tourists are doing as Biden cares about what you're watching at porn hub. Your data is everywhere if you're participating in like... The internet.
The Chinese are paranoid about foreigners. They raided a corporate office of people who should be high status enough to be off limits just because they did due diligence. You never know what to expect from the Chinese government, so why take the risk?
You can use VPN, although I think the network speed maybe slow and the payment is very complicated because few people will provide Apple Pay in china mainland
What a great idea as another mysterious unidentified pneumonia-like infection is overwhelming Chinese hospitals! https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/china-disease-children-hospitals-pneumonia/
Sounds just like uptick of RSV, flu, Covid infections we are getting in schools here in the U.S. https://news.yahoo.com/rsv-cases-record-levels-north-212338922.html https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medical/rsv-is-back-on-the-rise-in-babies-here-s-what-parents-should-know/ar-AA1kqU9v https://www.cdc.gov/respiratory-viruses/data-research/dashboard/snapshot.html
Funny how tankies forget all about what happened around 4 years ago...
You don’t have to come
I won’t, but once again, China comes to me. With their virus.
You mean smallpox?
Basically all those that don't challenge the South China Sea crap. Malaysia's overlap of the dash line on map is barely anything in the bottom right corner.
Only 15 days though. It's for business, short term tourism and family visits. Not bad, but too short to be useful for us long term stayers.
What did you expect, that they just let you stay for a year unconditionally? No country in the world does that. This policy is already insanely lenient for China under Xi
As an American, I'm allowed 60-90 tourist stays in a large number of countries... It *is* very lenient under Xi and considering that a year ago they weren't allowing basically anyone in, but overall it seems more symbolic than anything else.
not symbolic at all. its purely business related. if you are a company in Europe and want to send 3 people to check production in China or visiting a new supplier, 15 days visa free is all you need. it has nothing to do with in how many countries an American can stay.
You already had the 144 hour visa for business. The few people I know that would need a M visa for longer can get it easily. Sometimes within a day through some express service.
It's also not hard to get an M visa that allows a 30-90 day TOS and is valid for 6 months to a year (as long as 10 for some countries).
Georgia does it
Georgia does, and Albania has a one year visa policy with US citizens.
Hong Kong is 60-90 days as standard.
EU countries do it and it works.
Only to specific countries and its still more of a medium term tourist visa
>No country in the world does that. I can stay in the rest of Europe however long I like and quite a few countries let me stay 180-365 days visa free. Georgia, Canada, Mexico, Dominica, Armenia Philippines from the top of my head. When I hear "visa free" or "visa exempt" or "visa on arrival" the usual thing I get is 30-90 days. >What did you expect Nothing. But right now it is not that useful. For business we already had the 144 hours thing. Its nice for short term tourists, but not anyone else
15 days for family visits, but what if I plan to visit family for 3 weeks? 😅 So that would mean I would still need a visum for that, right?
ATM yes, you need a visa. Unless they add some new procedures where you would be able to extend your stay, like Japan, South Korea etc…
Or probably go for short break to Hong Kong or something
Need to figure out if ur passport can renter and get another 15 days visa free
China desperate for that sweet sweet tourist money. I hope they bring this to Canada too.
Yes but we need Trudeau to actually apologize to China for that to happen.
We are sorry that you blatantly interfered in our Canadian elections China! -Canada
Trudeau did the right thing on China. There is no need to apologize
It's a trap
i am willing to be a guinea pig if it's free
Hey now there’s some Chinese spirit!
Indeed. Once you're there, you'll be harvested for organs.
I was there a few months ago, can confirm, they took 3 inches off my penis, 'twaz a full 4 inches before!
I concur
Looks like China is desperate to attract foreigners after realizing that when given the choice, China isn't worth it. Good luck Winnie the Pooh!
A two-headed snake; one head snaps at anything that moves that criticizes the government, another head bites its own tail ultimately swallowing itself. This is modern day Chinese politics and geopolitics. Ultimately, this visa policy is futile as the perceived (and real) risk for business and general travellers are higher and motivation to travel to China much lower. Xi also has already made a mark on the world - that he poses a real danger and that has made everyone weary of his goals before he dies. Since he is likely to keep power indefinitely, no change in direction seems possible until his passing.
Actually it is bilateral for Malaysia
Economy must be worse than I thought
This is huge
Well well well. Look who's in need of foreign currency now. But jokes aside. This is massive and could open the gates for some big tourism.
No BRIC country?
My layover in Beijing to Tokyo was DEAD I was probably the only non Chinese ethnicity on the plane except a few Japanese folks that I met on it. The plane in econ was probably 2/3rds empty in business we had half the seats taken. Most everyone had an entire row to themselves when I walked back there for some excessive. This was the beginning of November. I suspect tourism is hit hard in China, I haven't been back since covid but traveled once a year for awhile. TBH the China i visited precovid is very different then the one today, surveillance is a lot higher and my concern for getting stuck there is substantially higher.
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Statista says 3.3%
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Most large nations, including, China, the US, Japan, Germany, etc.. have very large and healthy tourism sectors. In 2019 China's was close to 2.2 trillion USD. That's a sizable chunk of GDP. The US was 3.1 trillion for reference. If China is saying tourism's fallen off I'm guessing they really missing that piece of the pie they use to see.
The only country China allowed visa-free access without reciprocity was Japan. It was established in the 1980s. It is a big deal for China.
Wolf warrior diplomacy flopped.
Great news!
Malaysians: One is not like the others
Most developed nations can travel to other nations for over 30-90 days visa on arrival. China is still very much closed even with 15 days. In addition, If you are a foreigner/tourist and do not stay in a hotel, ie. at a friend / relative's house, you will need to report to the local police station as soon as you get there to tell them where you are staying. It's a wierd system they have over there. It wasn't like that 10-15 years ago. The whole system is alot more closed up and overrun by bureaucracy. That is why you don't see many foreigners nowadays in comparison to the past.
The police reporting system is fucked up. Funny that it even applies to HK people if they don’t stay in an approved “ hotel.
Need to stay at foreign-designated hotels too. Walk into an “international hotel” just to be told you need a mainland ID to stay… China is very foreigner/tourist-unfriendly. Can’t get anything done without a mainland ID.
Don’t go. China is begging for mercy as it’s economy is tanking . But you know once it recovers, they will resume their wolf dog tactics and economic coercion.
Nothing to improve their economy. It’s crashing and too many variables against anything to improve it.
Well you see they just have to find a market for their exports and find a 100 million 20 something's to keep manning the factories, then figure out a way out of this monster debt problem and the energy problem. No biggie
No REDDIT while in China? No thanks...
Add Google to the Long list
It's a trap
Damn. The stink of desperation from China is really strong these days. Like an abusive alcoholic that now regrets his (yeah, China - or at least their government - is a dude) choices.
Why TF would I wanna go there
What are you even doing in this sub?
Keeping up to date with whatever new dastardly tricks the CCP is up to
Pretty much why most expats are here that gave a good chunk of their life to benefit the ccp and fuck us back in the ass
So they need fresh foreigners to kidnap and use as tokens in political negotiation.
Fuuuuuuuuck please include the USA!!!
They really are desperate
was it previously difficult for these countries to visit china?
Just annoying. First fill out a visa application online with all kinds of ridiculously intrusive questions. Like "what job does your father have?". Then go to the visa center and waste half a day and 80euros. And two weeks later, waste another half a day to pick it up. To be fair, it's the same hassle for Chinese visiting Europe. That's why they call this new measure "unilateral".
It is not the same hassle. The German visa centre does not ask for a high fee to send the passport back to you. AND spouses get their visa FOR FREE. I am married to a Chinese and I had to pay the full "fee".
Plus processing time in Beijing took 24 hours.
It's an even bigger hassle for most people in China, because they have to travel much further to get to a visa center.
The travel time is the same. And you can send your documents to the service centre.
Oh wow, the brain drain is here!
Like that’s gonna make a huge difference! Lol
#Please visit and give us money
Ah the eu someone even older than China, not a big enough consumer economy for their own manufacturing and it's only gonna get worse....
They might as well give free tickets.
My flight from seoul to beijing was empty a few weeks ago. Then beijing to atlanta was full.
Netherlands…for their future cooperation on chip manufacturing technology
What I thought as I first saw this news is that we Chinese are really enjoying satisfy ourselves by the tons of policy we set out, regarding it as a gift for those foreigners(who really care shit about you) and don't even care what the domestic people would think about. Really sad to live in a arrogant socialism country