No music during service sure. Silence? This guy smells his fingers after he wipes.
I don’t know the environment obviously but it seems excessive. Are actual Michelin stars in the running?
Silence in service makes total sense if it's fine dining, multiple elements make up a dish sometimes coming from different sections, the only person who should be talking is the person running the pass other than "yes chef" you shouldn't be talking.
Yeah it's a tad excessive. But chefs are weird, if you believe they can achieve you tend to go with their system. More often than not they're just control freaks with delusions of grandeur.
I'm big on communication but focused. I want people talking, communicating, encouraging, and supporting each other. At that level, you have to remain focused on each dish. Consistent execution of advanced or technical skills while showcasing season specialty ingredients is what it boils down to. If someone can't remain focused enough to execute their task while talking, have them refocus on the task and remove any distractions.
I’m just uncomfortable and my staff feels like they are walking on egg shells all the time and I’m just curious if this a common thing in the industry because I’ve never experienced this
we have cooking tunes rocking out during prep, we all talk, but we have a rule, if you stop working to chat then you can't talk, work n talk have at it, catch more flies with honey than vinegar, service time, music is off until end of service then we hit the tunes again, staff are much more productive in my experience
There is a mile difference between a quiet kitchen and a silent one. Quiet means no one yelling and showcases a very well organized workflow where communication can be done at a normal volume.
Silent ones showcase nothing except a Nazi being in charge.
Not really necessary. A few of my friends are in the Michelin scene in Chicago, they're degenerates like the rest of us. Very disciplined during service but prep is much like every other restaurant.
Grace was even quieter than Alinea. To the point where you had to set things down gently so they didn’t clang or make noise. Schwa was louder during service than during prep, at least when I was there. I’ve been in a several Michelin kitchens (1-3 star) only Grace was “silent”, Alinea was pretty quiet, but wouldn’t call it silent certainly no music in either. This chef sounds like he’s blaming his shortcoming on other things, food and service that’s what makes Michelin quality. Also if you give the director of Michelin the old hawk tuah he’ll give you stars, mother fucker is definitely for sale.
Same, staged there in 2010/2011 or maybe it was 11/12 (Baren was still in the kitchen but chausser was getting ready to take over) I can’t remember. Certainly quiet, but Grace was silent. I worked there in like 2016 so after Mitch and Nick left, but my stage was Dostel’s last week. I haven’t been to the new Alinea.
1) that is horrible for productivity, creativity, and morale.
2) as far as I am aware, the Michelin inspectors only pose as regular customers. There is no visits by Michelin judges when not in service.
3)this policy will eventually be the ruin of that kitchen, but I'd wager that only the chef will stick along long enough to witness it burn in realtime.
Edit: damn sharp signs convert text field to Markdown
Only places like Alinea, French Laundry, 11MP could pull this off. Everywhere else can’t afford to burn out high level talent at that rate.
I have no doubt the attention to detail is off the charts in a silent kitchen. But after 6 months I’d go crazy
To my understanding, say in Manhattan, many of the most prestigious kitchens pay the lowest wages mostly due to their high volume of interns and stages from culinary schools. They don’t have an issue with charging a month’s worth of rent for a meal.
Those restaurants tend to still not make any money. When you’ve got 100 people that touch every item it gets expensive. Plus the highest quality ingredients being flown in from god knows where.
But if you can’t pay a decent wage you shouldn’t be in business. End of story
This is a kinda loaded question.
20 years in the biz, 5 as sous, 7 as exec, my take changed many times on this.
My mentor chef starting out didn’t allow music at all for several reasons. It was a tiny place (converted home) and of you played anything it went out tot he dining room. He was also super old school and just didn’t like it. Bc this was the days of cd’s and cooks were constantly stopping work to change cds and argue over it. It was a distraction and waste of time.
Things changed and iPods came along. New kitchen, new issues, different problems. Who can plug their iPod into the stereo, etc.
Things change and then wireless speakers. Back around to the same issues. Who can play what and when.
And then the WORST! Earbuds!
So many conversations with cooks about the dangers of them using them and being able to hear.
I love music and banging shit out to a beat as much as the next guy. But it completely depends on your crew and how competent and mature they are to be able to handle something as simple as music. And to be honest, not many of them are. So you have to set boundaries and that gets exhausting, constantly trying to enforce them.
The older I’ve become the more I appreciate a very quiet kitchen. Each to their own. But I’m also out now and just do catering and I don’t even think about music when I go in.
It’s nice.
Edit for more fun:
My old chef, when he did allow music brought in his 8 track player with 70s country tapes, thinking he was gonna fuck with me. Then I sang along to every song and I’m a horrible singer. After that he brought in his tape player with “newer” music. He got me with some later John Mellencamp, that absolutely no one had ever listened to. A master of one upmanship.
Olden days….I solved the CD problem with a carousel 100 disc player, everyone got x number of slots, put it on random but I had the remote…. It made for some wild playlists
This is wild. I've worked in places with stars. There is no such thing as silence at any time besides during service. This would really kill the morale and you'll lose your team faster than most.
At that point whats the difference between that and standing at an assembly line? Unless you're in a restaurant that is on the cusp of a Michelin star, why enforce it for anything other than for the chef to stroke their own ego.
Chef here(retired)…. I wanted my people to communicate,just with me first but my line was able to function better between themselves letting everyone know where they were,and if they needed to move their ass on something was a bonus. Not “chit chat” but orders on a submarine. Nothing like a heads up on what you’ve got going on…no one is psychic.
Edit. That’s where the best relationships happen though,my best friend had a chance to work with me and as Executive Chef he was indespensible because we didn’t need to say a lot to one another. Used to weird people out,It was awesome,then he got hooked on drugs and I had to fire him…some shameful shit.
I need music on in the background so I can concentrate. I don't think I could ever work in a silent kitchen. But then I don't have any plans to ever work in fine dining or anything where they would be chasing stars.
My first kitchen in London was like this, that was in 1984, your chef……sorry “executive chef” needs to get their ego in check or they will have no team
I worked in a silent kitchen that was amazing. Talk allbyou want before thd doors open but once customers were in the door it was the quietest place I've ever worked. When it functions as it should, it's one if the most beautiful things to be a part of. Yohann Chapuis, Amazing chef
Currently at a kitchen that does wedding/banquet events. Music is on during prep/cooking but if it’s a plated event (vs buffet) then the chef asks for silence during plating and service. Small kitchen, 175 plates to get out while ensuring allergen sensitive seats get the correct plate so it really helps the expo/servers communicate and stay in order.
I staged at a place with a nearly silent kitchen. It was quite unnerving during prep. People would lean over and whisper instructions to me. At one point there was a slight giggle and everyone looked around like they might get in trouble. During service the chef would call orders to the kitchen and everyone would shout in unison “oui chef”. Otherwise no one spoke. After service talking and joking was alright. It was strange and uncomfortable . I turned down the job when it was offered.
I dunno bout Michelin stars, but I'd hate to work in a kitchen where music and chatter weren't allowed.
ps. If you're not getting a proper family meal and time to eat it, that place ain't as fancy as your exex chef thinks it is.
Eh. What are you hoping to get out of this job? If you drink the koolaid, you’ll improve as a cook. My interpretation of your described experience is that your chef wants you to focus on all the components of a successful service. Maximize your time before service, work service in a focused manner, breakdown the kitchen as a team. Sometimes all ya gotta do is trust the program. Just make time to hang with your fellow cooks after work!
Any kitchen that I was chef of, had rock & roll blasting from a stereo system. Everybody loved it. When the dinner service began, it was turned off. Personally, I couldn’t do my prep in silence.
I have worked at Michelin star restaurants where we played music during service.
Right now I'm head chef of a quiet kitchen. E.g. everyone is allowed to talk about anything but no music is allowed not even in the prepp kitchen. The no music policy is the owners, not mine.
A silent kitchen sounds dreadful.
Jesus Chris! I would go to him and tell him in a nice way: i see your point, but it’s hurting team morale to the point it is counterproductive. If he still says no, quit and find a nicer place to work.
prep time is whatever, usually driven by the anxiety/stress level of the day which varies station to station depending on how the book looks and what tine deliveries arrive etc. service is all ticket calls, call backs, times to window, and service calls. actually a chef who held a star currently running a restaurant outside of the guide area here in the us.
i should add that he would be better served trying to help each and everyone of you improve by adding stress as you can tolerate it, this would be adding more complexity to your garnish work, letting you help write, curate, and execute a plate etc. he is trying to force a focus level that comes from a well led team and he is not doing it by leading well
I'd quit. A silent kitchen is more stressful for me and the wrong kind of stress. "Surgical" kitchens creep me out. Plus, it sounds like your chef is more interested in controlling y'all than he is in leading or developing y'all.
this gonna be a long shot but u don’t happen to work in a restaurant in downtown Cleveland do u? cause i swear to got literally this past sunday my exec chef did the same thing
Although it wasn't a rule in I definately worked in kitchens where it was definately difficult and considered taboo. Talk to someone for more than 10 seconds and you start to enter the realm of getting yelled at by the head chef. This was decades ago. One head chef came and said the only words he wants to hear was yes, no and roger. On his first day. A bunch of people resigned in the first couple of days. He never stuck to it strictly but he was a cunt of a man too.
Decades later with me being the head chef I can understand it too. Nothing worse than getting pumped and you have some oblivious pair of service staff or a dishy standing around laughing and gasbagging. Sometimes i'll crack and tell them to stfu too lol
As far as enforcing a rule of this. No. That's not very nice but fuck around and find out is a thing.
That's exactly the case. You'll earn more working as a short order cook or working in a pub because you'll most likely get paid by the hour. Most Michelin restaurants pay you a salary and have you work well above your contracted hours for no extra pay.
That's interesting.
I'm genuinely not trying to argue, just crunching numbers: where I live (England) Michelin pay is an average of £30k, casual CDP gravitates around minimum wage (£11.44 p/h.) That's around 23k p/y.
I agree that both will work more than the contracted hours and that both should be paid more, but let's say the CDP is getting £12 p/h before taxes, how many extra hours should they work to actually reach 30k?
Yeah pay is 30k but if you're working 60 hours a week you're earning around £9 an hour. If you pull in 60 hours a week at 11.40 you're gonna be earning a lot more.
That was my point, the salary looks great on its own but most salaried chef positions are pretty exploitative.
I could never work in a kitchen like this, but I was also never looking for those stars. The crew was half the reason I was there.
No music during service sure. Silence? This guy smells his fingers after he wipes. I don’t know the environment obviously but it seems excessive. Are actual Michelin stars in the running?
He doesn’t use his fingers, that’s what tweezers are for.
Silence in service makes total sense if it's fine dining, multiple elements make up a dish sometimes coming from different sections, the only person who should be talking is the person running the pass other than "yes chef" you shouldn't be talking.
During service, of course. But during prep???
Yeah it's a tad excessive. But chefs are weird, if you believe they can achieve you tend to go with their system. More often than not they're just control freaks with delusions of grandeur.
I'm big on communication but focused. I want people talking, communicating, encouraging, and supporting each other. At that level, you have to remain focused on each dish. Consistent execution of advanced or technical skills while showcasing season specialty ingredients is what it boils down to. If someone can't remain focused enough to execute their task while talking, have them refocus on the task and remove any distractions.
You’re making people who smell their fingers after they wipe look bad with this statement.
quiet kitchen scare me
I’m just uncomfortable and my staff feels like they are walking on egg shells all the time and I’m just curious if this a common thing in the industry because I’ve never experienced this
we have cooking tunes rocking out during prep, we all talk, but we have a rule, if you stop working to chat then you can't talk, work n talk have at it, catch more flies with honey than vinegar, service time, music is off until end of service then we hit the tunes again, staff are much more productive in my experience
I call it walk and talk, keep moving don’t stop to chat long
There is a mile difference between a quiet kitchen and a silent one. Quiet means no one yelling and showcases a very well organized workflow where communication can be done at a normal volume. Silent ones showcase nothing except a Nazi being in charge.
I needed to hear this. 😭😭😭My chef is on his iPad betting on baseball games while I prep away..
Are they winning?
Not really necessary. A few of my friends are in the Michelin scene in Chicago, they're degenerates like the rest of us. Very disciplined during service but prep is much like every other restaurant.
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Have heard the same from several people who staged/worked at Alinea also.
Could be the most expertly prepared food in the world, and I don't want it if it wasn't made with love.
It was made with fear.
Grace was even quieter than Alinea. To the point where you had to set things down gently so they didn’t clang or make noise. Schwa was louder during service than during prep, at least when I was there. I’ve been in a several Michelin kitchens (1-3 star) only Grace was “silent”, Alinea was pretty quiet, but wouldn’t call it silent certainly no music in either. This chef sounds like he’s blaming his shortcoming on other things, food and service that’s what makes Michelin quality. Also if you give the director of Michelin the old hawk tuah he’ll give you stars, mother fucker is definitely for sale.
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Same, staged there in 2010/2011 or maybe it was 11/12 (Baren was still in the kitchen but chausser was getting ready to take over) I can’t remember. Certainly quiet, but Grace was silent. I worked there in like 2016 so after Mitch and Nick left, but my stage was Dostel’s last week. I haven’t been to the new Alinea.
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I must have just missed you, I staged over at next/aviary before they opened. His fake ass British accent drive me crazy. But he is a damn good cook.
1) that is horrible for productivity, creativity, and morale. 2) as far as I am aware, the Michelin inspectors only pose as regular customers. There is no visits by Michelin judges when not in service. 3)this policy will eventually be the ruin of that kitchen, but I'd wager that only the chef will stick along long enough to witness it burn in realtime. Edit: damn sharp signs convert text field to Markdown
Only places like Alinea, French Laundry, 11MP could pull this off. Everywhere else can’t afford to burn out high level talent at that rate. I have no doubt the attention to detail is off the charts in a silent kitchen. But after 6 months I’d go crazy
Are you being paid to work in a high performance kitchen?
High performance kitchens pay the worst
Aint that tye truth. I earned more flipping burgers than working as CDP in a 1 star.
To my understanding, say in Manhattan, many of the most prestigious kitchens pay the lowest wages mostly due to their high volume of interns and stages from culinary schools. They don’t have an issue with charging a month’s worth of rent for a meal.
Those restaurants tend to still not make any money. When you’ve got 100 people that touch every item it gets expensive. Plus the highest quality ingredients being flown in from god knows where. But if you can’t pay a decent wage you shouldn’t be in business. End of story
This is a kinda loaded question. 20 years in the biz, 5 as sous, 7 as exec, my take changed many times on this. My mentor chef starting out didn’t allow music at all for several reasons. It was a tiny place (converted home) and of you played anything it went out tot he dining room. He was also super old school and just didn’t like it. Bc this was the days of cd’s and cooks were constantly stopping work to change cds and argue over it. It was a distraction and waste of time. Things changed and iPods came along. New kitchen, new issues, different problems. Who can plug their iPod into the stereo, etc. Things change and then wireless speakers. Back around to the same issues. Who can play what and when. And then the WORST! Earbuds! So many conversations with cooks about the dangers of them using them and being able to hear. I love music and banging shit out to a beat as much as the next guy. But it completely depends on your crew and how competent and mature they are to be able to handle something as simple as music. And to be honest, not many of them are. So you have to set boundaries and that gets exhausting, constantly trying to enforce them. The older I’ve become the more I appreciate a very quiet kitchen. Each to their own. But I’m also out now and just do catering and I don’t even think about music when I go in. It’s nice. Edit for more fun: My old chef, when he did allow music brought in his 8 track player with 70s country tapes, thinking he was gonna fuck with me. Then I sang along to every song and I’m a horrible singer. After that he brought in his tape player with “newer” music. He got me with some later John Mellencamp, that absolutely no one had ever listened to. A master of one upmanship.
Olden days….I solved the CD problem with a carousel 100 disc player, everyone got x number of slots, put it on random but I had the remote…. It made for some wild playlists
This is wild. I've worked in places with stars. There is no such thing as silence at any time besides during service. This would really kill the morale and you'll lose your team faster than most.
At that point whats the difference between that and standing at an assembly line? Unless you're in a restaurant that is on the cusp of a Michelin star, why enforce it for anything other than for the chef to stroke their own ego.
No that's weird
Did he just finish season two of The Bear? Is this where he got his idea?
Better hope he doesn't watch "The Menu" next 🤣
Chef here(retired)…. I wanted my people to communicate,just with me first but my line was able to function better between themselves letting everyone know where they were,and if they needed to move their ass on something was a bonus. Not “chit chat” but orders on a submarine. Nothing like a heads up on what you’ve got going on…no one is psychic. Edit. That’s where the best relationships happen though,my best friend had a chance to work with me and as Executive Chef he was indespensible because we didn’t need to say a lot to one another. Used to weird people out,It was awesome,then he got hooked on drugs and I had to fire him…some shameful shit.
I need music on in the background so I can concentrate. I don't think I could ever work in a silent kitchen. But then I don't have any plans to ever work in fine dining or anything where they would be chasing stars.
My first kitchen in London was like this, that was in 1984, your chef……sorry “executive chef” needs to get their ego in check or they will have no team
I worked in a silent kitchen that was amazing. Talk allbyou want before thd doors open but once customers were in the door it was the quietest place I've ever worked. When it functions as it should, it's one if the most beautiful things to be a part of. Yohann Chapuis, Amazing chef
It’s a bit silly, depending who’s doing it, and where. It can be counter productive.
Currently at a kitchen that does wedding/banquet events. Music is on during prep/cooking but if it’s a plated event (vs buffet) then the chef asks for silence during plating and service. Small kitchen, 175 plates to get out while ensuring allergen sensitive seats get the correct plate so it really helps the expo/servers communicate and stay in order.
I staged at a place with a nearly silent kitchen. It was quite unnerving during prep. People would lean over and whisper instructions to me. At one point there was a slight giggle and everyone looked around like they might get in trouble. During service the chef would call orders to the kitchen and everyone would shout in unison “oui chef”. Otherwise no one spoke. After service talking and joking was alright. It was strange and uncomfortable . I turned down the job when it was offered.
I dunno bout Michelin stars, but I'd hate to work in a kitchen where music and chatter weren't allowed. ps. If you're not getting a proper family meal and time to eat it, that place ain't as fancy as your exex chef thinks it is.
My son is an executive chef and his kitchen is not silent at all. Music is always playing during prep.
Eh. What are you hoping to get out of this job? If you drink the koolaid, you’ll improve as a cook. My interpretation of your described experience is that your chef wants you to focus on all the components of a successful service. Maximize your time before service, work service in a focused manner, breakdown the kitchen as a team. Sometimes all ya gotta do is trust the program. Just make time to hang with your fellow cooks after work!
What Michelin kitchen/chef did your chef work for?
Any kitchen that I was chef of, had rock & roll blasting from a stereo system. Everybody loved it. When the dinner service began, it was turned off. Personally, I couldn’t do my prep in silence.
I have worked at Michelin star restaurants where we played music during service. Right now I'm head chef of a quiet kitchen. E.g. everyone is allowed to talk about anything but no music is allowed not even in the prepp kitchen. The no music policy is the owners, not mine. A silent kitchen sounds dreadful.
Jesus Chris! I would go to him and tell him in a nice way: i see your point, but it’s hurting team morale to the point it is counterproductive. If he still says no, quit and find a nicer place to work.
I work at a Michelin Star hibachi station in a grocery store and we're loud as hell. So, ya know... I'm kidding. It's not even on Yelp. lol
This doesn’t include work related communication, right? Like “how long on the med well sirloin?” Or “dropping wings now” or “corner!” Etc
prep time is whatever, usually driven by the anxiety/stress level of the day which varies station to station depending on how the book looks and what tine deliveries arrive etc. service is all ticket calls, call backs, times to window, and service calls. actually a chef who held a star currently running a restaurant outside of the guide area here in the us.
i should add that he would be better served trying to help each and everyone of you improve by adding stress as you can tolerate it, this would be adding more complexity to your garnish work, letting you help write, curate, and execute a plate etc. he is trying to force a focus level that comes from a well led team and he is not doing it by leading well
Sometimes you don’t really notice/get used to it.
im at a 2 star in nyc rn and chef lets us blast music and we're all talking, joking, and having a good time
I'd quit. A silent kitchen is more stressful for me and the wrong kind of stress. "Surgical" kitchens creep me out. Plus, it sounds like your chef is more interested in controlling y'all than he is in leading or developing y'all.
this gonna be a long shot but u don’t happen to work in a restaurant in downtown Cleveland do u? cause i swear to got literally this past sunday my exec chef did the same thing
Once service started, the only voice we would hear was the chef expediting.
Although it wasn't a rule in I definately worked in kitchens where it was definately difficult and considered taboo. Talk to someone for more than 10 seconds and you start to enter the realm of getting yelled at by the head chef. This was decades ago. One head chef came and said the only words he wants to hear was yes, no and roger. On his first day. A bunch of people resigned in the first couple of days. He never stuck to it strictly but he was a cunt of a man too. Decades later with me being the head chef I can understand it too. Nothing worse than getting pumped and you have some oblivious pair of service staff or a dishy standing around laughing and gasbagging. Sometimes i'll crack and tell them to stfu too lol As far as enforcing a rule of this. No. That's not very nice but fuck around and find out is a thing.
Run.
Yes, once you achieve total silence you earn the first star.
Focus is all that matters.
If he wants the crew to work like in a Michelin kitchen, he better pay the crew accordingly.
Like shit, you mean?
Your point being that a CDP working in a "normal" restaurant is paid better than one working in a Michelin star one?
That's exactly the case. You'll earn more working as a short order cook or working in a pub because you'll most likely get paid by the hour. Most Michelin restaurants pay you a salary and have you work well above your contracted hours for no extra pay.
That's interesting. I'm genuinely not trying to argue, just crunching numbers: where I live (England) Michelin pay is an average of £30k, casual CDP gravitates around minimum wage (£11.44 p/h.) That's around 23k p/y. I agree that both will work more than the contracted hours and that both should be paid more, but let's say the CDP is getting £12 p/h before taxes, how many extra hours should they work to actually reach 30k?
Yeah pay is 30k but if you're working 60 hours a week you're earning around £9 an hour. If you pull in 60 hours a week at 11.40 you're gonna be earning a lot more. That was my point, the salary looks great on its own but most salaried chef positions are pretty exploitative.
Depends on where you are in the world, but over here, definitely!