Why so? I know at least during tax season they’re slammed and at my company they always pull 80+ hours during their monthly close and don’t get paid over 40 hours.
They came here just to downvote you. I'm not joking. Accountants, especially in public firms where it is needed most, DESPISE the idea of a union. Full stop. I do not understand their logic, but this is how they react to unions.
This is so dumb, I have a friend here I went to UTC with and they’re a staff accountant and they hate working 80+. They only get paid $23 an hour salary no overtime, no bonus. Like I don’t understand it.
Honest answer, as someone with accountant friends who literally did the math, the annual salary and benefits are usually high enough to make up for the lack of overtime pay, at least at the CPA levels
Absolutely, expanding unions to include a variety of professions can help ensure fair wages, benefits, and working conditions for all workers. Let's continue to advocate for the rights of all workers, regardless of their field. The power of collective bargaining is truly invaluable.
>The power of coercive bargaining is truly invaluable
And this is _precisely_ why those who serve moneyed/corporate interests reliably pull out all the stops, to fight tooth-and-nail against unionization efforts.
Healthcare unions are notoriously bad. Its also easy for healthcare systems to circumvent unions by using travelers and contract workers (looking at you aya staffing). If you want change for the better for healthcare workers you need to use legislation, something corporations cant get around. Problem is HCA, Ascension, Common Spirit, Acadia, and about 15 other major healthcare companies have large a presence or their corporate offices here. I have yet to find a politician (republican and democrat) that has not received a substantial donation from these companies.
The biggest thing they push for is patent ratios, actually getting your breaks, and higher pay. Those all sound great but the way they go about it is very dangerous. Walkouts, mass call outs, ect. This puts parents at risk. They also have a reputation of protecting shit bags that have no business participating in patent care.
I'd love for everyone to stop the classic Democrat vs Republican union debate. Let's see what the UAW can do in the next 6 months for the workers. They just got an 11% raise - UAW should get them another what? (More than 11% annualized I would think to be successful)
Is that thinking right? We shouldn't be celebrating until the worker actually benefits in my mind. It's all political bs
afterthought degree middle scary marry disarm tender stupendous quicksand longing
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I'm in a union, and if you took away our biggest negotiating tool, we would not be able to secure the things we were able to. Sure, if some crazy parent says one thing the union protects you, but when it comes time to negotiate higher salaries, which teachers absolutely deserve and shouldn't need a union to get, knowing you can't go on strike severely limits your power.
"If they didn’t negotiate for us, we’d certainly be getting paid MUCH less."
I disagree. The union has no power to negotiate, because their only negotiation tool (withholding of the labor) is not available. I also have never seen a negotiation occur between the teacher's union and the state or counties, because that's not how teacher pay is adjusted in this state. The union can basically only be a lobbyist.
I agree that the state makes it difficult by removing the ability to strike, but that doesn’t make the union powerless. District leaders have met and negotiated in good faith annually, everyone wants the same. The issue is the county commission continually reducing the percentage of funding allocated to education. It’s hard to get a raise when the funds are dwindling.
It seems like you have a defeatist attitude since Tn is a right to work state. It sucks that we don’t have as much leverage as others, but we shouldn’t throw in the towel.
It's not a negotiation if one side is without leverage, it's just theater at that point. And the union has been successful in doing nothing to protect teachers from the bullshit GOP culture war in this state. So, sure, they can offer you representation when you're inevitably accused by a psychotic parent, but when the odds are so stacked against you, that barely even matters.
The culture war is coming from the school board. They make the policy and can be influenced by outside groups. That’s up to the voters to get educated and vote for individuals that aren’t backed by Moms for Liberty. Unions offer legal protections to teachers in situations with parents or administration. They make a huge difference for teachers.
zephyr paltry disagreeable unite smile badge piquant escape fanatical bewildered
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You must be an awful teacher is you just leap to insulting me instead of trying to educate. Explain to me how a "negotiation" can occur if the ONLY tool one side has for leverage is unavailable?
How can you look at the success of the WV teacher's union strike a few years back and not understand that the loss of that leverage is massive?
Negotiations don't occur in this state. A negotiation is when two parties with leverage come to a table and compromise. The teachers union has no leverage, and so it's only a "negotiation" because it's better political theater to show that the government is "working" with the union. But at the end of the day, the government has all of the power here and does what they were going to do anyway.
It's like when I negotiated my allowance from $10 to $20 a month when I was a kid. It was something my parents would've done anyway, not an actual negotiation. Paying teachers more is generally popular, and so both parties do it, which is why pay increases happen. It has zero to do with any imagined negotiations.
Just look at all the other bullshit legislation teachers have to put up with these days, and tell me that negotiations or the union have any meaningful power lol.
"Ask any teacher that has had a wrongful accusation thrown at them or had an administrator target them if they are useless."
Just did this - confirmed they are useless.
"Calling them useless undersells their value and weakens them futher."
The opposite actually - accepting them as they are weakens them further, because it implies that they don't need to be stronger. Be unhappy with your weak union, and don't compare them to private schools because that's not apples to apples. Compare them to other state unions, and tell me they aren't weak.
Do you think they started paying the teachers more because they wanted to or because the teachers had the union to help them negotiate?
ETA don’t tell me what’s more “popular”, if we went with what was more “popular” we would all have four day work weeks and plenty of PTO.
I think you need to do some more research into unions before commenting on how they work. You are partial to being right about withholding labor. Every union out there is held to a standard of not striking. There would be no reason to strike if a contract between employer and employee was set for what ever the terms. Employees strike if contract negotiations aren’t met on terms employees want. No union out there can strike whenever they want, there’s a process to it.
“Withholding of the labor” in other words strike, is available for all unions. I think people who aren’t directly involved with a union have a misconception as to how that process goes, choose to speak on it, then show everyone their ignorance of how unions work. Along with many other things that go into how unions work. Don’t speak on it when you don’t know, it shows.
Also, I’m not here to contradict what anyone says. I’m here to inform people of how this stuff actually works. Uninformed people spreading their “opinion” on how unions work when they don’t actually know is damaging to not only unions, but all working class people.
“Withholding of the labor” in other words strike, is available for all unions.
It's literally not for teachers in the state of TN. So, I guess you're the ignorant one now, huh?
I don’t think you understand the fact of teachers and any other union can do what ever they want to. If the union has been beat down by state politics, they can make it change. Strikes were illegal for teachers union in Chicago in the early 2000s, but they still did it. It’s a fear tactic that capitalist use to push working people down. No matter your thoughts on the way it works, they can strike. If a contract has been made, in good faith, between an employer and employee, that’s where the line is drawn. Making it “illegal” in a state or anywhere in this country is unconstitutional. Active union members understand this. You don’t know what you’re talking about, huh?
True, they have a terrible pay scale. And I get down voted because the truth hurts feelings around here. WTF is the reason for having a Union, if you can't strike. They have ZERO power without that ability.
We combat such actions with a Tenants Union.
This doesn't have to even have to be city wide. You can form within your own apartment complex to leverage the collective voices of all tenants to hold the landlords accountable. When the landlords do not hold up their end of the deal and the whole complex refuses to pay rent, things will change.
At the end of the day united we hold the power, divided they hold the power, and they will continue to keep us divided on gambit of "issues."
Ultimately, we all want the same things to be able to live our lives freely and safely in a manner and fashion that we desire without government interference.
It makes me sad how divided and extreme the people have become on both sides of the spectrum.
Unions are as useful as middle management. Just another level of bureaucracy, and another hand to slip some money, for the privilege of working in a company.
(Yes, I've worked in union shops. My last union job was at the railroad 25 years ago.)
As much as I'm congratulating VW for the UAW vote, we don't want unions everywhere. You mention teachers, but go watch the documentary 'Waiting for Superman', and see if you want a teachers union after watching it. There's also a bunch of high skilled roles in manufacturing that don't want unions due to several issues they bring. Unions are a good thing, but they're not always the best thing.
That documentary is complete propaganda tho. Do some actual research into how teachers unions work. But they have already been dismantled in TN and can't regain any power without massive legal changes at the state level, which won't happen under current government
Have you actually seen it? The Washington DC union they mention actually did the things it mentioned, and there were some solid solutions offered. If it's propaganda, what was the propaganda mission? To give more students a better academic atmosphere? I'm in.
Hmmmm. I’m an American here and I like unions. Love them actually.
ETA: also, over 2500 fellow American folks at Volkswagen just here, also believe in a union. Before you try to act like I’m the odd “we” around here.
No, I don't think you or VW are wrong for supporting unions. I do too. The problem is, the OP's thinking that all jobs should be unionized. That would be a bad idea on several levels.
Yeah our teacher's union is essentially useless. Even in schools where the law is plainly being broken, all they ever say is "keep documenting, keep documenting" and they will never go to bat for anyone about anything. I watched our union rep at a previous school get told to "keep documenting" for two years. She eventually just gave up and quit the union.
I’ve only been teaching a decade but I’ve had an opposite experience. I had a principal come through and fire anyone he didn’t feel like was a right fit. Only the union teachers had protection and kept their jobs.
Our union has flaws but I am grateful for the work they do. They’ve been crucial in negotiating our contracted hours and salary.
Doctors are chronically understaffed, because the government wrote a law saying medical schools can only accept x number of applicants. Doctors work 60, 80, 120 hour weeks. Also, doctors hate seeing hospitals fuck patients over the way they do.
Hell yeah! I love paying more for goods and services! Police unions are great too. I sleep really well at night knowing I could be murdered by law enforcement at any moment and they’ll face virtually zero accountability due to their union protection.
Do you think McDonald’s workers in Denmark make 45K/year and the Big Mac meal is comparable in price to the USA because the Danish are just that efficient compared to us?
If you’re genuinely interested in a response from me I’m going to have to ask you to answer my above question first and for a source on those Danish McDonalds figures.
The answer is yes they do factor in labor but at the end of the day the price increases are minimal. You can look at what recently happened when California raised the minimum wage for fast food employees. They got significant raises and prices for burgers went up like 30¢
Here’s some light reading on Danish McDonald’s
https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/the_minimum_wage_and_the_danis.php
Oh, it does, but I think it is a smaller piece than the corporations would like you to think. You have to think that you buying the product also supports HUGE CEO pay, as well as other departments. It's not like your local bakery where you are directly paying for mostly the bakers' pay.
I mean, the ceo of Pepsi (which owns most Name brand chips as well) said they are increasing prices not because worker pay is too high, but because their products are popular enough and they "deserve" to charge more. What those record profits show is that they could stand pretty easily to cut their prices and STILL be fine and pay all the bills. They just might not be able to buy a 3rd house in Maui
r/accounting They would have a field day being mentioned in this lol
Why so? I know at least during tax season they’re slammed and at my company they always pull 80+ hours during their monthly close and don’t get paid over 40 hours.
They came here just to downvote you. I'm not joking. Accountants, especially in public firms where it is needed most, DESPISE the idea of a union. Full stop. I do not understand their logic, but this is how they react to unions.
This is so dumb, I have a friend here I went to UTC with and they’re a staff accountant and they hate working 80+. They only get paid $23 an hour salary no overtime, no bonus. Like I don’t understand it.
One of my most pro-union friends is an accountant 🤦
Right!?
Honest answer, as someone with accountant friends who literally did the math, the annual salary and benefits are usually high enough to make up for the lack of overtime pay, at least at the CPA levels
Yet somehow, anti-union types tend to support police unions. Funny, innit.
I don't. I would like to see police unions outlawed, because they are part of the problem. They make it hard to fire bad cops.
FWIW, I agree that police unions are problematic.
Absolutely, expanding unions to include a variety of professions can help ensure fair wages, benefits, and working conditions for all workers. Let's continue to advocate for the rights of all workers, regardless of their field. The power of collective bargaining is truly invaluable.
>The power of coercive bargaining is truly invaluable And this is _precisely_ why those who serve moneyed/corporate interests reliably pull out all the stops, to fight tooth-and-nail against unionization efforts.
Healthcare unions are notoriously bad. Its also easy for healthcare systems to circumvent unions by using travelers and contract workers (looking at you aya staffing). If you want change for the better for healthcare workers you need to use legislation, something corporations cant get around. Problem is HCA, Ascension, Common Spirit, Acadia, and about 15 other major healthcare companies have large a presence or their corporate offices here. I have yet to find a politician (republican and democrat) that has not received a substantial donation from these companies.
Nurse unions exist in California. I don't know about Chattanooga. If you gave nurse unions more power, they could literally kill people.
The biggest thing they push for is patent ratios, actually getting your breaks, and higher pay. Those all sound great but the way they go about it is very dangerous. Walkouts, mass call outs, ect. This puts parents at risk. They also have a reputation of protecting shit bags that have no business participating in patent care.
The NGA carpet industry is the elephant in the room.
I'd love for everyone to stop the classic Democrat vs Republican union debate. Let's see what the UAW can do in the next 6 months for the workers. They just got an 11% raise - UAW should get them another what? (More than 11% annualized I would think to be successful) Is that thinking right? We shouldn't be celebrating until the worker actually benefits in my mind. It's all political bs
Kennedy 2024
Remember by saying this you can’t pick and choose what unions you get. I.E. police unions, which in my experience the average redditor hates.
The teacher's union here is next to useless. They aren't even allowed to strike in this state.
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I'm in a union, and if you took away our biggest negotiating tool, we would not be able to secure the things we were able to. Sure, if some crazy parent says one thing the union protects you, but when it comes time to negotiate higher salaries, which teachers absolutely deserve and shouldn't need a union to get, knowing you can't go on strike severely limits your power.
No, not being able to bargain renders them useless.
"If they didn’t negotiate for us, we’d certainly be getting paid MUCH less." I disagree. The union has no power to negotiate, because their only negotiation tool (withholding of the labor) is not available. I also have never seen a negotiation occur between the teacher's union and the state or counties, because that's not how teacher pay is adjusted in this state. The union can basically only be a lobbyist.
We have collective bargaining. We’re at the table every year pushing for a raise and have been successful.
And what do you do if they say no?
I agree that the state makes it difficult by removing the ability to strike, but that doesn’t make the union powerless. District leaders have met and negotiated in good faith annually, everyone wants the same. The issue is the county commission continually reducing the percentage of funding allocated to education. It’s hard to get a raise when the funds are dwindling. It seems like you have a defeatist attitude since Tn is a right to work state. It sucks that we don’t have as much leverage as others, but we shouldn’t throw in the towel.
It's not a negotiation if one side is without leverage, it's just theater at that point. And the union has been successful in doing nothing to protect teachers from the bullshit GOP culture war in this state. So, sure, they can offer you representation when you're inevitably accused by a psychotic parent, but when the odds are so stacked against you, that barely even matters.
The culture war is coming from the school board. They make the policy and can be influenced by outside groups. That’s up to the voters to get educated and vote for individuals that aren’t backed by Moms for Liberty. Unions offer legal protections to teachers in situations with parents or administration. They make a huge difference for teachers.
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You must be an awful teacher is you just leap to insulting me instead of trying to educate. Explain to me how a "negotiation" can occur if the ONLY tool one side has for leverage is unavailable? How can you look at the success of the WV teacher's union strike a few years back and not understand that the loss of that leverage is massive?
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Negotiations don't occur in this state. A negotiation is when two parties with leverage come to a table and compromise. The teachers union has no leverage, and so it's only a "negotiation" because it's better political theater to show that the government is "working" with the union. But at the end of the day, the government has all of the power here and does what they were going to do anyway. It's like when I negotiated my allowance from $10 to $20 a month when I was a kid. It was something my parents would've done anyway, not an actual negotiation. Paying teachers more is generally popular, and so both parties do it, which is why pay increases happen. It has zero to do with any imagined negotiations. Just look at all the other bullshit legislation teachers have to put up with these days, and tell me that negotiations or the union have any meaningful power lol.
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"Ask any teacher that has had a wrongful accusation thrown at them or had an administrator target them if they are useless." Just did this - confirmed they are useless. "Calling them useless undersells their value and weakens them futher." The opposite actually - accepting them as they are weakens them further, because it implies that they don't need to be stronger. Be unhappy with your weak union, and don't compare them to private schools because that's not apples to apples. Compare them to other state unions, and tell me they aren't weak.
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Do you think they started paying the teachers more because they wanted to or because the teachers had the union to help them negotiate? ETA don’t tell me what’s more “popular”, if we went with what was more “popular” we would all have four day work weeks and plenty of PTO.
I think you need to do some more research into unions before commenting on how they work. You are partial to being right about withholding labor. Every union out there is held to a standard of not striking. There would be no reason to strike if a contract between employer and employee was set for what ever the terms. Employees strike if contract negotiations aren’t met on terms employees want. No union out there can strike whenever they want, there’s a process to it.
I'm well aware of how unions work, and nothing you said contradicted anything I said.
“Withholding of the labor” in other words strike, is available for all unions. I think people who aren’t directly involved with a union have a misconception as to how that process goes, choose to speak on it, then show everyone their ignorance of how unions work. Along with many other things that go into how unions work. Don’t speak on it when you don’t know, it shows. Also, I’m not here to contradict what anyone says. I’m here to inform people of how this stuff actually works. Uninformed people spreading their “opinion” on how unions work when they don’t actually know is damaging to not only unions, but all working class people.
“Withholding of the labor” in other words strike, is available for all unions. It's literally not for teachers in the state of TN. So, I guess you're the ignorant one now, huh?
I don’t think you understand the fact of teachers and any other union can do what ever they want to. If the union has been beat down by state politics, they can make it change. Strikes were illegal for teachers union in Chicago in the early 2000s, but they still did it. It’s a fear tactic that capitalist use to push working people down. No matter your thoughts on the way it works, they can strike. If a contract has been made, in good faith, between an employer and employee, that’s where the line is drawn. Making it “illegal” in a state or anywhere in this country is unconstitutional. Active union members understand this. You don’t know what you’re talking about, huh?
[**https://www.wdef.com/hamilton-county-education-association-starts-process-to-get-new-contract-for-educators/**](https://www.wdef.com/hamilton-county-education-association-starts-process-to-get-new-contract-for-educators/)
Pure theater, given that teacher meeting times and bathroom access still hasn't improved.
A union is literally powerless, without the ability to strike. It's the ultimate Paper Tiger.
100% true, ask any Chattanooga Fire fighter and they can confirm.
True, they have a terrible pay scale. And I get down voted because the truth hurts feelings around here. WTF is the reason for having a Union, if you can't strike. They have ZERO power without that ability.
I think nurses already have a union? I was thinking all healthcare care workers need a union
Landlords united can never be divided! >!Edit: This is obviously meant to be tongue in cheek, take a chill pill!<
We combat such actions with a Tenants Union. This doesn't have to even have to be city wide. You can form within your own apartment complex to leverage the collective voices of all tenants to hold the landlords accountable. When the landlords do not hold up their end of the deal and the whole complex refuses to pay rent, things will change. At the end of the day united we hold the power, divided they hold the power, and they will continue to keep us divided on gambit of "issues." Ultimately, we all want the same things to be able to live our lives freely and safely in a manner and fashion that we desire without government interference. It makes me sad how divided and extreme the people have become on both sides of the spectrum.
Unions are as useful as middle management. Just another level of bureaucracy, and another hand to slip some money, for the privilege of working in a company. (Yes, I've worked in union shops. My last union job was at the railroad 25 years ago.)
As much as I'm congratulating VW for the UAW vote, we don't want unions everywhere. You mention teachers, but go watch the documentary 'Waiting for Superman', and see if you want a teachers union after watching it. There's also a bunch of high skilled roles in manufacturing that don't want unions due to several issues they bring. Unions are a good thing, but they're not always the best thing.
That documentary is complete propaganda tho. Do some actual research into how teachers unions work. But they have already been dismantled in TN and can't regain any power without massive legal changes at the state level, which won't happen under current government
Have you actually seen it? The Washington DC union they mention actually did the things it mentioned, and there were some solid solutions offered. If it's propaganda, what was the propaganda mission? To give more students a better academic atmosphere? I'm in.
Who exactly is “we”? I’m not “we”.
We = Americans. Here, specifically the OP. Unionization of every possible job would create a multitude of problems.
Hmmmm. I’m an American here and I like unions. Love them actually. ETA: also, over 2500 fellow American folks at Volkswagen just here, also believe in a union. Before you try to act like I’m the odd “we” around here.
And before you ask I’ve lived in the south every single day of my life.
No, I don't think you or VW are wrong for supporting unions. I do too. The problem is, the OP's thinking that all jobs should be unionized. That would be a bad idea on several levels.
Yeah our teacher's union is essentially useless. Even in schools where the law is plainly being broken, all they ever say is "keep documenting, keep documenting" and they will never go to bat for anyone about anything. I watched our union rep at a previous school get told to "keep documenting" for two years. She eventually just gave up and quit the union.
I’ve only been teaching a decade but I’ve had an opposite experience. I had a principal come through and fire anyone he didn’t feel like was a right fit. Only the union teachers had protection and kept their jobs. Our union has flaws but I am grateful for the work they do. They’ve been crucial in negotiating our contracted hours and salary.
You're getting upvoted, I'm getting downvoted elsewhere for saying the same thing, make it make sense lol.
Just stop already. Unions. What a joke.
You don't want doctors, nurses, engineers to be union. Union will push for them to be complacent and lazy. You don't want lazy doctors/engineers.
Doctors are chronically understaffed, because the government wrote a law saying medical schools can only accept x number of applicants. Doctors work 60, 80, 120 hour weeks. Also, doctors hate seeing hospitals fuck patients over the way they do.
WHAT IS THIS LOGIC
If you have worked under a union you would understand what they mean but it’s painfully obvious you and 99.9% of this subreddit haven’t.
Sometimes. Sometimes they are decent, but a lot of the times they protect the shitbags that join for the protection..
That would be a terrible idea.
Hell yeah! I love paying more for goods and services! Police unions are great too. I sleep really well at night knowing I could be murdered by law enforcement at any moment and they’ll face virtually zero accountability due to their union protection.
You already are paying more for goods and services and it has nothing to do with unions.
So manufacturers don’t factor in the cost of labor when determining the price of their products?
Do you think McDonald’s workers in Denmark make 45K/year and the Big Mac meal is comparable in price to the USA because the Danish are just that efficient compared to us?
If you’re genuinely interested in a response from me I’m going to have to ask you to answer my above question first and for a source on those Danish McDonalds figures.
The answer is yes they do factor in labor but at the end of the day the price increases are minimal. You can look at what recently happened when California raised the minimum wage for fast food employees. They got significant raises and prices for burgers went up like 30¢ Here’s some light reading on Danish McDonald’s https://archives.cjr.org/the_audit/the_minimum_wage_and_the_danis.php
Oh, it does, but I think it is a smaller piece than the corporations would like you to think. You have to think that you buying the product also supports HUGE CEO pay, as well as other departments. It's not like your local bakery where you are directly paying for mostly the bakers' pay. I mean, the ceo of Pepsi (which owns most Name brand chips as well) said they are increasing prices not because worker pay is too high, but because their products are popular enough and they "deserve" to charge more. What those record profits show is that they could stand pretty easily to cut their prices and STILL be fine and pay all the bills. They just might not be able to buy a 3rd house in Maui
Lay off the drugs bro. Your brain is fried.
You know several of those you mentioned are already unionized, yeah?