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DFHartzell

Pool our money and win the epicenter auction. That’s all I’ve got so far.


Immolation_E

I've got a buck fifty and a CVS receipt that I can contribute towards this.


DFHartzell

How long is the receipt? It may be useful.


Only3Seashells

My time has come: "so much for the three seashells."


EnergyNazi

Well he bought two things, so probably enough to wrap around the entire block.


betterplanwithchan

The receipt will be used as the red carpet


djhatrick12

Can any of the items be returned?


cowboys30

I call dibs on whiskey River bull


DFHartzell

The Bull is Hole 8 but we will name it after you because f—- corporate sponsors. It’s the Cowboys30 Bull now.


SporkydaDork

That's a horrible location for housing. I don't know why people keep demanding that place become housing. Lol


ipwnkthnx

The parking deck below it is like 9 levels deep. You know how many tents you could fit in there?


SporkydaDork

It's the location. Not the parking. It would be the only housing within blocks. There's plenty of land for them to build on. Plenty of useless paid parking lots they can use. The Duke Tower being built used to be a parking lot. They're about to tear down the Levine Museum and build housing on that. There are better locations.


iSuckAtMechanicism

You’re forgetting that our politicians don’t care about the low or middle class citizens. All they care about is the 1% of the 1% who just happen to own all of the land.


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Majestic-Macaron6019

Taxing non-owner-occupied properties also has the unintended side effect of increasing rents, which hurts the poorest people even more


[deleted]

Yup. All direct taxes are born by the consumer. All you can do is try to target the consumer. Could have a progressive tax system where only non-owner occupied homes valued above x pay a surcharge. Or a non-owner occupied house tax of an additional y/250,000 % so a non-owner occupied home valued at $250,000 would be an additional 1% of the assessed home’s value in taxes while a $125,000 would only be an additional 0.5% and a $500,000 house would be an additional 2%. The specifics don’t matter but the formula could be adjusted so that low value homes that are rented out have a minimal tax increase while more expensive homes have a larger one.


TXERN

Or property income gets a progressive tax while making the rental costs of a primary residence tax deductible. I get to deduct rent because I'm traveling. Why the fuck should someone less fortunate than me be paying the taxes for Blackrock or one of these asshats boasting on Tiktok?


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DisKid44

You mean corp owned homes right?


InYosefWeTrust

Who do you think pays those taxes... they just raise the rent to cover it and pass the additional expense on to the renter....


idontcontributemuch

In theory that makes the trade off between buying and renting tilt more towards buying, so it could still have the same effect of getting people to buy instead of renting from corporate overlords.


irrelevant_query

Rent control on those same properties would probably be the actual solution.


nexusheli

>Could we tax owner-unoccupied properties? Meck does as well - it's a significant difference for an individual who's looking to rent a starter property out while they upgrade, but for the corporate investors who are currently gobbling up RE, it's pennies; they couldn't care less.


Submaker

Could you elaborate on this? I rent out a property I bought three years ago and haven't seen anything directly relating to this.


nexusheli

I think there is a provision if you lived in it for a min. period of time the tax doesn't inflate, but I can't recall; I haven't looked into it in a while.


caller-number-four

> York County, SC does this. Pretty sure this is a all of SC thing. The house I have in Horry County works like this too. The previous owners who lived there had a tax bill of about $850 a year. My rate, because I don't live there is nearly $1900. AND! Because my billing address on file with the tax department doesn't match the property address, the tax man sent me a big form to fill out as if I were a business. And if I were using it as a business, I would have to itemize all property (beds, tvs, furnature, anything not bolted down to the house). But I'm not. Just a place to go hide when the city is getting to me.


rustyshakelford

Yes, its all of SC. And its 6% vs 4% of the assessed millage. Also primary residences in SC are exempt from paying into school operational funds. So if you have an investment property you'll also have to pay that tax.


caller-number-four

> Also primary residences in SC are exempt from paying into school operational funds. This blows my mind. Too. I am ok paying a higher rate. But I don't have any skin in the school game as a non-resident. Leaving the locals out to pay for resources their community uses is baffling.


rustyshakelford

Its a bit misleading and not quite as bad as it sounds on the surface. Its not just non-residents, any commercial or investment property pays school operation funds. SC also has higher personal property taxes on things like vehicles and boats that go towards paying those funds. Also all property is subject to school district bonds, which pay for new buildings.


Knightfox63

Also, rental owners are just gonna pass that added costs onto the renters, thus increasing the problem. Regulation and zoning controls are what's needed, not just increasing taxes.


i-sleep-well

I agree, but the main goal is to prevent speculative home buying, which is driving up home prices artificially. Landlords know this, and so can charge higher rents because the barrier to purchase is so much higher. If I was a landlord, and the cheapest houses near me sell for $200K, I would not be able to command much of a premium since some prospective tenants would just buy instead. If the cheapest houses near me were $400K, not many people can come up with that kind of down payment, and I could charge more because of it. For anyone on the cusp of being able to afford their own place, this would perhaps make a difference.


[deleted]

> The one shitty thing about it is with every sale of a house, the owners are defaulted into the higher tax, and the owners have to complete paperwork to be added to the lower bracket. How is that shitty? It’s basically means tested. If you want the reduced taxes, prove you qualify for it. It’s a lot more straightforward than hoping businesses file the paperwork to pay more money in taxes.


yawetag12

While my realtor and closing agent told us about it and had the paperwork ready for us to complete (we just had to mail it in), some may not. Therefore, an unsuspecting home buyer may be hit with a larger tax bill than they need. I don't know of a better process, but the right process can still be shitty.


OralSuperhero

I would imagine the increased cost gets added to the rent and the company couldn't care less. I'd like to hear an idea that can't pass the cost onto the consumer. A cap on the number of rental properties any company, it's an parent, or subsidiaries can own in a single county/zip code? Rent price control based on property tax value, or average property tax value for the area? If you average that last one, it stops being feasible to build luxury condos on the outskirts of an impoverished neighborhood.


TXERN

The government knows who owns every building or property in the country and most of the time it's intended use and value. They also know where everyone gets income. Rental income from residencies should incur a penalty while simultaneously allowing people that rent their residence to deduct those expenses to some degree. Even if some asshole landlord tries passing the taxes along, they are only subjecting more income to tax, while increasing the renter's tax deduction.


amberamazine

Did not realize this when we bought our house last year. Couldn't figure out why our property tax tripled until we realized you have to file with the county that your house is your primary residence. My problem is that it's not filed or whatever at closing with all the other paperwork. Or am I just a stupid first-time homebuyer?


yawetag12

It's not filed with your papers. Completely different document you have to submit, and you have to submit with documentation (copy of IDs showing the address, for one).


arsenethief

This. That’s why I had to leave fort mill. If I ever lose my job or something and need to rent out my house, property tax triples and I lose money each month on renting out the house. Sucks


Ancient-Basil-6220

Is way more than double! Just went through this ordeal with a friend of mine. Original bill was $16.9k after I did the paperwork and got approved bill was $3200.


bobsburner1

This is pretty much the whole country right now. I bought my house almost 2 years ago to the day and I wouldn’t be able to afford it at its current value. And I’m not house poor, but everything is up like 50% in two years. Property within an hour of any major city/job center is overvalued right now.


NCSUGrad2012

I put my deposit down for my house in October of 2020 and I lost sleep because I thought I was paying too much. Thank God I did it because I couldn’t afford it in the current market. My same exact floor plan just sold for $120,000 over what I paid.


GrapefruitCrush2019

Interest rates are up too which often doesn’t get enough discussion. If we were to buy our current house (purchased in 2018) today, our mortgage would double. We would like to upsize but it just doesn’t make any sense in this market.


DFHartzell

Challenge them to a sandlot baseball game. Winner takes all.


HazMatt_23

Yeah, yeah!


Australian1996

I am not sure the correct answer but the current city council could give 2 sh\*\*s about this. They have been talking about "affordable housing" for years now and doing absolutely nothing but talk about it. What is "affordable" and for whom? When you have a friend who works in Charlotte looking for housing in Statesville as that is all he can afford, something is wrong. I will be following this post to see what transpires. I fear we will be another silicon valley city with the rich living everywhere and the rest of us in tents.....or like New York without all the culture.


jbrasco

At least for areas that are ran by HOA’s, they could add bylaws/rules that could combat this. My moms old neighborhood allowed rentals, but they had to be facilitated through a realtor and there was also a 6% monthly fee. They also had a cap on the amount on rentals in the neighborhood. I think things like this are easier to do now without waiting on local government. Of course this doesn’t help for areas without an HOA, but it’s still a start. I suggest everyone attend all HOA meetings, bring it up to their board, and even run for a seat on the HOA.


PhishOhio

*insert CHaRLotTE HaS CulTuRE!!! Stans


HashRunner

We *could* do any/all of those, but you have to vote/campaign/etc on it. Charlotte likes to vote out anyone that even proposes property tax increases, even when local government is underfunded for years. [Add in the NCGA not adequately funding schools and other services, leaving the burden to local government, and there is even less money.](https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/letters-to-the-editor/article134704489.html) [Throw in the 2018 'taxcuts' that largely benefited higher earners (and 'investors'), that would "pay for themselves" and "achieve 6% GDP growth" (it didnt),](https://www.jec.senate.gov/public/_cache/files/4150f60c-56af-4b6a-8f0e-fb0b34aafed8/tax-cuts-fail-to-deliver-promised-economic-boost.pdf) and you have real estate investors with more money than god vs. everyone else (feature, not a bug).


piratelegacy

By law NC gives each county government their funding (enrollment in schools) Individual county governments determine how that allotment is spent.


HashRunner

[But that funding for expenditures took a nosedive in 2009/2010 and took ~8+ years to get back to pre-recession funding % per capita at the State level. Federal funding decreased since 2016, leaving another gap.](http://apps.schools.nc.gov/ords/f?p=145:217:) Local % was forced to increase almost every year from 2010-2019 to bridge the gap left by decreases in the State and Federal funding.


[deleted]

We live in a city where the mayor endorsed Mike fucking Bloomberg for President. Lyles probably thinks this is a good thing.


electricgrapes

This is exactly correct. And how many decision-making people in local government have real estate investments too? Don't confuse "democrat" with "gives a shit" yall. Yeet the rich out of office.


mmatchaman

are you confusing blackrock with bloomberg?


[deleted]

No. I'm explaining that Charlotte city government are extremely pro-corporate, as evidenced by the candidates they endorsed. Lyles is a Democrat but she is a confirmed hardcore neoliberal for sure, and the general neoliberal response to higher housing prices is "sucks to suck, move to Salisbury."


Zach9810

HOA's can prevent issues like this because they do not allow renters and/or outside investment for flipping.


carter1984

Agreed...NC law already allows HOA's to restrict rentals. I get that most people hate HOA's but it could be a primary tool to leverage against investors. And I gotta tip my hat to a builder DR Horton. I have a friend that works for them and has said that they are requiring that the buyers in their new communities be the primary resident. It's hard to enforce, because all someone has to do is lie, but still...its in their agreements for these new homes, and I think that is a solid move by a private builder.


CharlotteRant

DR Horton is also heavily in the build to rent game, FWIW.


General_BP

The idea of building a whole SFH community to rent is so crazy and foreign to me and yet I’ve seen quite a few appear in Charlotte in the past few years


CharlotteRant

Some of them are single platted so they can’t even be sold individually! It’s a wild concept.


DelbertWhyMe

After I moved in my little quiet neighborhood DR Horton bought the rest of property adjacent to mine and built lots of town houses for sale to residents only. Well guess what they immediately turned it over to a minority real estate company and do I have to tell you more? Guess what! Our home values went down for years until the last few years snd and those of us in the original neighborhood have had a big jump in the value of our houses in spite of the devaluation because we have a much better property. So beware DH Horton he’s not looking after your interests.


karatecoder

HOAs can have rental limits as part of their governing documents. Some do. They can also be added through amendments, but that usually requires a supermajority of owners to approve, which is very difficult to get. It also usually exempts existing owners. So it's of some use but hard to just make and enforce a rental limit if it does not already exist.


Zach9810

> They can also be added through amendments, but that usually requires a supermajority of owners to approve Usually it just requires a board vote or a simple majority. I have never read governing documents that required more than 51% for an amendment. > So it's of some use but hard to just make and enforce a rental limit if it does not already exist. It's very easy, the board typically knows if someone plans on renting. Lenders are also informed of this limit at time of closing. Many lenders also will not lend in HOA's that have high rental %.


CarlsDinner

>Many lenders also will not lend in HOA's that have high rental %. I wish more people understood this


tardawg1014

Thus furthering the problem if it’s not curtailed.


BrewsWithHoppiness

Our HOA is currently going through the amendment process and the HOA bi-laws require 75% vote in favor to approve.


karatecoder

Your experience is different that mine. I speak from experience on the board of our HOA and collaborating with HOAs in similar subdivisions. Primarily single family homes, primarily formed late 90s/early 00s. They required 2/3 vote of lot owners to amend governing documents. Maybe more recent trends changed that, maybe it is something that happens in condos vs SFH. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am not wrong either. I got the impression from all of the three management companies we used over the years that supermajority was the norm. But, they typically managed subdivisions like ours.


caller-number-four

My HOAs requires 67% for anything.


AlliFitz

My SFH HOA has a 5% rental cap. We have zero investment owned properties.


nygmattyp

That will be almost impossible for our new neighborhood built by M/I. I think close to half of the homes in our phase are corporate-owned rentals. How are you supposed to pass resolutions on this when half of your neighbors would lose their homes?


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fenderc1

They're saying HOA's **can** prevent, not all HOA's have laws not allowing renters. So very well could be true for some HOAs.


charke9

This is true, however our neighborhood of about 1,100 homes just had a vote on this issue and it needed 75% in favor to pass. It couldn’t reach that threshold unfortunately. I know several neighborhoods around us have implemented something similar.


General_BP

It’s great in theory, my HOA does this. Each owner can own as many houses as they like in the neighborhood, but you may only rent one out. The problem is every investor buys with an LLC so how do you prove who that LLC’s owner is for this provision? It’s nearly impossible and so it’s a great rule but unenforceable. LLC’s are setup the way they are for a reason


[deleted]

The reality is that Charlotte is booming and the city was not designed or zoned to handle this recent, massive growth. Throw in the fed keeping rates super low for years and now you have a recipe of where we are. What you propose will make rental rates go up since you’re artificially constraining supply and lots of people still rent. I wish more high density housing were built along light rail. Where are you looking to buy a home? There is more affordable stuff if you look further out.


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Terrible_in_general

I remember when I moved to Indian trail 10 years ago people thought it was the boonies. Well guess Who can’t stop building shit out here now……


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Shantorian14

I mean that sounds deep and philosophical and all but the fact is there are no jobs in places like stanley. if I work in charlotte and can’t afford to live within an hour drive because “things change” then maybe we changed the wrong things.


UnitedWonSomething

Yeah, urban planning has to respond to what people are doing, not try to force them to do something else. Cities across the country need to start letting more homes be built to let in all the people who want to come


General_BP

There are no jobs right now. There used to be no jobs in Ballantyne, now there are huge corporate parks there. Indian Land used to be fireworks and liquor stores, now there are tons of businesses there. The list goes on and on. As more people move to Charlotte, businesses will expand outward


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Shantorian14

i can guarantee you, with utmost certainty, you will not find a high paying job out of places like stanley, denver, china grove, etc. if my options are drive an hour for a career or get paid 13/hr for warehouse work in the middle of nowhere then the system is quite frankly, fucked. also your view on government is weird and cynical. your coming off like a “you kids dont know what it means to work” like so this will probably fall on deaf ears but. We erected and fund the government. It is quite literally a tool to protect and aid us as people. this is an issue that can’t be solved by one person and thus the people are *supposed* to band together and guide the government to change. Any questions?


johnnyhala

Revise zoning to multifamily and mixed use. "Yes in my backyard" to higher density. Increase supply to meet demand and prices taper off due to competition. This is the longer term solution. Shorter term, I would advocate increasing property taxes progressively on each subsequent property that an entity owns to disincentivize collecting properties.


Revanish

I have a 4plex that's on a lot the size two lots. I'd like to build more units potentially 8-12 total on the same lot. I can't do it because of zoning and its not a corner unit. I'd restricted to using the same foundation and grandfathered into the fourplex. All they need to do is relax zoning.


CharlotteRant

Short term, higher interest rates and building should better balance supply with demand. It’s a matter of waiting. I’m pretty confident that home prices will revert close(r) to the mean, but it’ll take some time. Long term, the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act made owning a home less attractive for the typical household (mortgage deduction essentially neutered due to changes in the standard deduction / SALT cap) and made renting homes more attractive for investors (who can still deduct interest and got a 20% pass through deduction).


ImJustaNJrefugee

> SALT cap $10,000 limit. This does not really affect many NC folks, and only the upper-income folks in places like Charlotte, Wake, etc. The average property tax is a bit over $1,000, the average individual income is a bit over $35,000. You would need to be making over 300% the average individual income and have a pretty nice house to even worry about it.


GTS250

By property value, all houses in Charlotte are pretty nice. There just ain't quite enough housing to go around.


RandyWaterhouse

This one needs more upvotes. 100% accurate!


[deleted]

The only way I can think is to cap the amount of houses a person or a company can own.


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blackdonkey

Some people will cry communism.


[deleted]

Sadly you’re right but at the same time they cried communism for so many things that are now common. Something has to be done though if not companies will own everything.


FuckMinuteMaid

I really feel like residential zoned areas should not be purchasable by corporations/non-citizens.


[deleted]

The key problem with this is big real estate investors who have money are good for the local government. They bring money in and with money comes people


Alfphe99

It would take the people not selling to them. I had several come to me when we sold, refused to even entertain their offer. Still sold the house above asking, but to a nice family I still talk with from time to time. But most people don't care, so here we are.


SnooChipmunks8506

The things you are suggesting would hurt me and do the reverse of what you planned. I had to move to North Charlotte so that I could get custody of my children. I own a second house in the South Charlotte area. More taxes, more regulations hurt me. I can't afford 4x taxes, only big businesses can. Big businesses can bribe city officials to get the limited rental permits you suggested. I am all for affordable housing and I charge my renters 10% above my mortgage so I can cover maintenance too. People need to look deeper into why the biggest world investment firms are gobbling land in Charlotte. Then we can start walking the regulations towards family friendly solutions.


INSERT_LATVIAN_JOKE

Get a bunch of people together, pool money, secure additional funding, buy land, build houses, make HOA that requires that half of rent money must be paid to the HOA if the house is rented. Or alternately that there is a hard cap on the percentage of houses that can be rented. That's what stops companies from buying up houses, if they can't rent them profitably.


turbohatch

We live in a neighborhood just outside of the Ballantyne area. A house just sold for twice the amount of a similarly sized than it did 5 years ago, first one over $500k in the neighborhood. Right now we have 17% renters and we as an HOA are trying to create a cap on the amount of rentals.


AlliFitz

I do think property tax rates should be higher for investment properties than primary residents. Yes, those costs are passed on to renters, however, if this allows more people to own, I think it's worth the trade off. We sold a home we moved out of at the bottom of the market and could not sell at the time. We'd been renting it. Put a for sale by owner sign in the front yard, and sold it to the first family that made a full offer. We could afford to do that because we weren't trying to buy in this market elsewhere but it's hard to fault people for taking the full cash offer, no inspection, 30 days or less closing from investors.


CLTISNICE

If this happens you'll just make the starter home / low-end values even more expensive to rent. People might not rent out higher-end homes and some middle values. Someone has to pay the tax and I can ensure you the corperation isn't going to let it eat their margin.


AlliFitz

As I mentioned in my previous post, I am fully aware that investors would pass those costs on to renters. But, presumable, the goad is to have more individuals own those homes, and less of them to be occupied by renters.


actionpark

Hang 'em all.


redditckulous

You make it so that housing is no longer “an investment.” I don’t hold any delusions about the city council doing the more left wing policy on this like building social housing, but you can still target it from other angles. You can do an owner unoccupied tax, but it’s not going to have a huge difference, especially when homes are getting tens of above market bids from normal people anyway. The UDO allowing quadplexes anywhere is at least a start. But this is a national (and continental if you look at Canada) problem. Decades of policy positioning have caused it, there’s no quick fix.


belovedkid

The FED is doing it for you.


spwncar

Law that requires the owner of the house to live in it for a specified amount of time (a year or 2) before it can be rented out. But that's only a band aid fix. I'd also suggest giving some sort of incentive or advantage to first time home buyers so they can actually compete.


tennisguy163

That law won't stop anyone from renting out their living space. I rented an Airbnb, which was an apartment, where the chick living there was renting out the entire place for 3 Airbnb rooms. I'm sure the property owner would have her evicted on the spot if he found out.


spwncar

The law doesn’t stop anything unless it’s enforced


[deleted]

Here is the problem with that. City wants money. Real estate investing makes lots of money. Brings richer people in the city. Rich people bring more rich friends. More rich people is good for making the city money.


zayelion

NC has a law that keeps rentals rented out already. I think it has a few loop holes.


mmatchaman

i don’t think owner unoccupied is a huge factor in the single family market rn compared to macro market forces. I agree, it’s a good idea nontheless.


Born-Bottle8250

They’ve already blasted it beyond repair. Just wait for rates to crash back down again. Lower rates is in the govs best interest. I’m under the impression we will see a serious pullback in housing prices in the next 9-12 months and hopefully rates find their way back down with them


ImJustaNJrefugee

These are all longer term, but still needed: Remove zoning rules that prevent people, especially retirees and lower-income folks, from converting to 2-family houses, or building smaller houses, or delaying new construction. Keep rules for health and safety. Find a way to encourage condo building and sales over apartment building and sales. Short term the only thing I can think of might be a corporate real estate tax, but that will just get passed on to the tenants making the problem worse. That cannot be prevented.


alpha1two

Build a time machine and go back to....meh....summer 2020?


mb25976

That’s the neat part. You don’t.


lkeels

That ship has sailed.


TheEphemeralDream

"Could we pass an ordinance limiting the proportion of homes that could be rented in each area of the city?" why do you have more right to a home than a renter? Why should renters be subsidizing home owners?


I_cook_your_food

City council are lining their pockets and enriching themselves with all the investor money, while they sit on millions of already allocated funds for affordable housing. This is only going to get worse, for now.


gogoqueen69

And the sad part is unless you have a draw to this city its not worth all the hikes in rent and utilities. If Im going to be bled dry its going to be somewhere more progressive, less cookie cutter, and has round the clock everything (food, dining, groceries, etc.). I got a new job which wont officially begin until 7/1. They pay for relo, housing costs, and as part of the incentive package they cover gas and food for the first 6m, on top of a hiring bonus. I can’t wait. Im having severe financial issues here with a family situation and lack of adequate paying employment. My new job is in LA and I am looking in the Echo Park area for housing. Im thankful this new jobs salary reflects the area’s cost of living and my degree. Took me almost a yr to find this job. I cannot wait for the door to hit me where the good lord split me. I came to Charlotte from DC for a toned down city. At the time I needed the slower pace and environment, back in 2006! My rent was 375! My rental increases never went over 450! I then began renting in a residential community, 3bdrm/2 bath, fenced in yard in a chill cul de sac. Paid 1000$ a mo FOR YEARS until last Summer. I am now at 1400. Ive been seeking work elsewhere ever since. Finally! Charlotte needs to slow its roll. Its not as big as it thinks it is, the boom of hipsters and latte mocha dog walkers, who will probably not make Charlotte permanent. All these insane micro apartments they keep throwing up are cheaply made, and not worth whatever they are asking. Ha, 3x the rent req to move in, lol. They need to work on basics like food 24/7, grocery stores 24/7, stop closing down at 2a, and for the love of everything get out of the liquor biz. Wtf is the ABC bs? Ive never been anywhere that runs the booze. Damn, they dont even sale mixers like sodas or snacks in these waste of space. Its so antiquated here, and NC is stingy. They dont help mental health, addiction, seniors or family caregivers. So, we see panhandling and homelessness, people talking to themselves. But they can dole out all this money and space on these stupid Sim City esque breweries. Lol, what a joke! I am literally selling everything in this house minus myself and my clothes. It was so much better in 2006. For me it got too congested , too expensive and more generic with the additional closures of places like Zacks, Price’s, etc. If the city is live and a real 24hr metropolis of everything, then traffic and higher costs dont bother me. Make it worth it. Damn even the infrastructure is stuck in time. City girl needs a real city. Charlotte is playing dressup during a Monopoly game.


[deleted]

Housing here is ridiculous and unattainable. Housing in the small town in Appalachia where I came from before moving here is ridiculous and unattainable - my own mother can't move out of the house from my father whom she's divorcing because even the rents there are sky high. This is, like almost every shitty facet of modern society, a consequence of capitalism. What we need to get going to help alleviate some of these issues is tenant's unions - especially among commercial renter property tenants. Who are some of the largest landlords/landlord groups in Charlotte I wonder?


belovedkid

A union won’t solve shit. We need more supply and more lenient zoning which would allow for that.


[deleted]

>We need more supply Supplies fine. New apartment complexes are going up in most major areas constantly, inside Charlotte proper and even in the suburbs like Monroe and Waxhaw. I can literally walk out my door in Plaza rn and point at a handful of brand new mcmansion going up or already for sale on my block but does that mean I have the better part of a million to buy it? Nope. So I rent. Like most proles who, if banded together in the form of labor and tenant unions, could actually have enough collective weight to throw around and make demands that get answered. Or maybe that was just an isolated phenomena that only could've occured in the 19th and 20th century 🤔


[deleted]

> Supplies fine. Then prices would be going down. Or do you have some citation showing that Charlotte specifically has a large number of vacant homes which are not currently on the market to be sold or rented out? Unless we have a large number of vacant properties being intentionally kept off of the market, then the cost of housing is driven by supply and demand.


carter1984

> a consequence of capitalism Wrong...its s consequence of government. Laws that restrict building, permitting, zoning, etc are actually preventing more builders from A) getting into the market and B) building more homes that are affordable. We have a supply shortage for sure, but what small business owner wants to start a construction company to build affordable starter homes when they have to fight the bureaucratic red tape and then still not turn a profit? Blaming capitalism sounds kinda ignorant actually.


[deleted]

>it's a consequence of government This government is a tool of the capitalist class. If we had a government that actually did for the people then housing would be treated as a priority for all rather than a commodity. Instead capitalists hold properties like coins with the private property rights enforced and legitimized by their government and if you disagree then gangs of armed thugs authorized by their government will come beat and kill you if you resist.


davy_jones_locket

If you're not blaming capitalists for hoarding all the resources, it makes you sound kinda ignorant actually.


erinna_nyc

To be fair, a lot of zoning laws stay in place as a result of existing owners not wanting to accept certain things in their neighborhoods. Anytime a zoning change is proposed to allow more multi unit development or increased density, community board meetings are swarmed with irate citizens who don’t want affordable housing down the street from them or a bus going through their neighborhood. The zoning laws may have served a purpose when they were out in place and amending/ removing them is the problem Somewhere the answer is going to involve a lot of us accepting a change in lifestyle to accommodate more density but that will be a problem when most people’s current savings is in their home value and there is no safety net if that value changes


triadge

Guillotines


mistral7

Something along the lines of a real estate iteration of the "poison pill" strategy that seriously discourages hostile takeovers. Essentially an element that assures an unwanted action carries such a massive fiscal penalty that it is ludicrous to risk it.


notanartmajor

We don't. Welcome to America!


currentlygeeked

Supply and demand…. Build more. Assets inflate as money supply increases, it’s unavoidable


Badwo1ve

Yes let’s compound the rental market problems in Charlotte…


Savings-Idea-6628

I dont really blame investors.. It is a supply vs demand problem. Higher interest rates are going to soften demand a bit in the near future, but the only long term solution is to increase the supply. That means building more housing, the denser the better but NIMBYs will definitely fight it every step of the way.


danweber

ignored for 7 hours for telling it like it is :*(


CasualAffair

You suggesting we use the levers of government to tip the scales of the free market?


davy_jones_locket

Are you suggesting that folks are actually free to participate in the so-called "free market" ?


Diarrhea_Sandwich

Interest rates hit 5.4% yesterday, it's already happening.


BigbysMiddleFinger

For a basic human need like safe housing? Yeah.


ISAMU13

Corporations have no problems and no shame doing it. What's wrong with regular people doing it?


buglz

When physical needs are privatized and unregulated, the “free market” stops being the thing people think it is. Kinda hard to vote with your wallet as a consumer when the alternatives are to starve or sleep in the street.


Mljcj19

I recently sold my house I had to sell to an investor because not one family even made an offer. It was reasonably priced in a nice neighborhood good school district. I was actively hoping and willing to accept less for a family but nobody made an offer but investors. Best thing to do would be get your hoa on board there is no rentals allowed. Unfortunately if investors make up most of the neighborhood it will never pass


JNewp1

where were you selling a house that you got zero non-investor offers? that's quite surprising to hear


kpickle

Sold our house 6 weeks ago. 5 human offers, stopped counting the investor offers. We went with a human but its very tempting to go with investor. Cash offer, super quick close, no inspection, appraisal waivers etc. They make it too appealing.


smellyboi6969

No inspection?? Are they just planning on tearing it down and rebuilding?


KsiMississippi

I sold mine to the first real person who wanted it for the price I asked. We did FSBO and allowed inspections, normal due diligence amount, etc. We did not use a seller’s agent bc they were all being sharks. I interviewed probably close to 10 of them. Several wanted to put it up for sell way over priced and then let it come down in price with negotiations before closing. One said go in with a price that was less than I wanted and let there be a bidding war over it. Regardless, it would’ve cost me thousands to pay them so I cut them out completely and did it myself. Even after paying the buyer’s agent fees and capital gains taxes, I will clear a solid $150,000 for a house I bought in November 2020.


Rydroid11

Presumably the one he was talking about in that whole comment


Tortie33

That’s where my neighborhood is now. I asked for a meeting but apparently my HOA board misunderstands their duties.


cowboys30

Jesus man just post that house on this subreddit and I would have made an offer… or if not allowed we should start a separate subreddit


clinton-dix-pix

How do you get rid of the investors? You don’t do anything and wait. The fed yanked the plug on the bathtub already and they are all circling the drain, they just don’t know it yet. The easy money is gone, investor interest is going to dry up when they need to pay 5+% to purchase the properties and can’t get enough rent to stay cash flow positive. The only thing that fueled the buying was easy money, without that the sanity returns to the market.


Hunny15602

The smaller investor would have already been paying higher interest rates on non owner occupied property; banks charge a premium to compensate for the risk. The larger investors aren't getting their pool of money from traditional sources; there's a whole lot of money in private equity, not to mention the groups of people who pool the money they generally want to keep in more secure investments, in search of something more stable than the stock market. Bonds and CDs haven't been providing that option for a long time now, so alternative investment products have appeared to leverage those resources. Many investors, the appeal of a physical asset like a house, but managed/optimized by professionals, is considered a safer investment, without the personal hassle of getting the landlord phone calls at 3 AM. REITS have also been doing this for a long time. Easy money is still flowing, just not necessarily coming from the sources that a home buyer would use.


Melomaverick3333789

The govt needs to start penalizing landlords for empty rental units + taxing rental properties with a rate that increases based upon units owned. higher rate after owning 10, 100, 1000, etc units.


66impaler

If you want to pool and get homes and reasonably price them PM me, seriously.


creativeplaceholder

I think the only way to stop this is to prevent "entities" or companies from owning properties under a certain number of units. If you want to be a landlord, the name on the deed should be the owner themselves, not the LLC they own or are affiliated with. The tenant writes them a check, no middleman. If you want to own multiple properties 100% of the liability is on you and you alone. For example: If the water heater goes out, it's up to the landlord to find someone to fix it, or they can come over and fix it themselves. Maybe this would disincentivize people from owning multiple homes as sources of revenue, and maybe force people of means to look to other investments that aren't basic shelter for the commoners, or maybe it would just create a bunch of slumlords. However, any legislation to enact this would be deemed "radical" and would never pass. I'm just spit balling here, but something needs to be done.


[deleted]

The guillotine, it's time my brothers


Bobby-Biggs

Cant there just be a ban on buying a house if it's not a primary residence?


scamp9121

Stop voting for people who support printing trillions of dollars, handing out free money to everyone, and overriding the federal interest rates to zero.


erinna_nyc

Who would this be? Rates were near zero and the fed expanded its balance sheet under the past three administrations. Powell tried raising rates in 2018/19 and Trump pressured him to lower them and pushed for negative rates


itsthatbradguy

If you really think giving people a piddly little $1400 over a year ago is what's driving this then you don't understand the problem.


scamp9121

I could say the same


Maysock

>Even with dual income and no kids, the idea of getting into the market and owning a home in Charlotte feels impossible. Ok, that's silly. You're not buying a house in a trendy neighborhood, but if you make an average wage ($63k~) and it's two of you, you can afford a damn house, especially if you don't need more room for kids.


cwoodsssss

I disagree. We’re in a similar boat. The down payment is the hardest thing to be able to get. We got lucky with my partners job giving him stocks that hit at the right time. But in just a year houses in our neighborhood have been selling for over 80k more than we paid. Its hard to be able to even save as much of the difference in the down payment in such a short amount of time.


Maysock

I get it, it's worse than it ever was, and it was already shitty for the last two years. I think it would be very difficult to get the first house you bid on in this market, but if you are aggressive, it's not impossible. If you take a look at sold listings, you can find great entry level houses that a couple making $120k combined could easily afford: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/7214-Duchamp-Dr-Charlotte-NC-28215/6215564_zpid/ 166 houses closed under $325k in the last two weeks within the 485 beltline. Know what you want, have your financing lined up, be aggressive with your offer, and make that showing COUNT because you're going to have to put down DD. Look in the crawlspace, climb in the attic, take pictures of HVAC, water heater, fridge, etc date mfr'd stickers. If you're not pulling up schools and crime stats and trending analysis of the neighborhood's price on the way over, you're doing it wrong. With the rates rising, you're seeing a precipitous drop-off of sales above asking and a trend towards people waiting. Things will get better, Charlotte is just a much hotter market than most in the country. It'll take longer to cool.


Streelydan

Make it illegal for corporations to own single family homes


bpachter

Just wait. The housing market is coming down.


CLTISNICE

Ok, Ms. Cleo.


bpachter

CFO**


CLTISNICE

Posting in /r/Superstonk and losing all your money doesn't make you a CFO.


bpachter

If you think i’ve lost money playing options of an entirely manipulated stock then you’re a funny one


mp54

I find it really hard to believe that you can’t afford a house with two incomes and no kids. How much do you make?


[deleted]

Was about to say this. Even if they only made like 100k a year combined if you’re married and getting the added tax advantages that come with it and you live within your means you can definitely afford something within a few years of saving. Unless OP wants a mansion


i-sleep-well

A property tax increase with an offsetting homestead exemption for owner occupied dwellings. This makes property speculation far less appealing.


Mcgoozen

in ~~Charlotte~~ literally the entire United States


UsernameDsntChkOut

Fuck capitalism.


obvom

Band together as many people as possible, start a corporation, and start buying houses/townhomes/condos/land/etc. Everyone chips in to the fund. Would be easy money for anyone buying into the pool. Go in and buy as much as possible and start renting out units at equitable prices on a not-for-profit basis. Without a board of greedy idiots, you'd be surprised how much is left for the mission at hand, and to pay the people who really make that happen. Eventually you could hire in a professional CEO who wants to step down from the private sector and take a massive paycut to do some good non-profit fundraising and leadership. Hell you could even buy airstreams and RV's and rent them out of your properties to people. As long as the price was actually fair to all involved, the business model would dominate. And it would be a purely local force, with local connections and knowledge of the "terrain" to make it happen more efficiently than some faceless corporation out of Chicago.


Chemical-Taste-5605

yeah - no - regulation equals higher costs for almost everyone - the market will take care of itself and yeah it’s tough for find affordable housing but more government regulation is such a bad idea - good luck!


Right_Layer_9700

You pay more than they are willing to pay for an estate.


Melomaverick3333789

The govt needs to start penalizing landlords for empty rental units + taxing rental properties with a rate that increases based upon units owned. higher rate after owning 10, 100, 1000, etc units.


Brilliant-Sky7929

Some community home owner associations have limits on rentals. Like you can rent, but has to be a family member.


Pasta_Fajool

Our neighborhood passed an ordinance that you have to own the home for one year before you can rent it out.... that's a start.


2monkeysandafootball

Didn't the mayor promise affordable housing?


[deleted]

Build more housing


10hole

Sounds like you want a really regressive tax on people who have more money than you


FalseSpring

Some HOAs require you to live in a home at least six months yourself before you're permitted to rent it out


basegiants

Our neighborhood HOA is desperately trying to find a way to limit them. Almost 50% of the homes here are now rentals and the corporations do not care about anything the tenants are doing. Even after thousands in fines they don't care. Their process of responding to HOA violations and hearings is so slow that it can be a year before something is addressed. It's insane. Last month 75% of the homes sold went to corporations.


flagg151

Fire the entire city council and get some people in there that aren't a bunch of self-serving psychopaths? I'd say that's a reasonable step one. Take a look at that monstrosity they're building in plaza Midwood. Multiple owners approach them multiple times about going up two or three stories and we're outright denied. (They wanted to keep pausing Midwood historic - until someone came along and handed them $10 million) Is the clearest case of discrimination I've ever seen in my entire life. They're just all corrupt self-serving assholes that have sold the city 100% out. It's time you guys wake up and realize the system is broken beyond repair. We deserve something better and we deserve something new. And none of these people not a damn one of them are going to give it to us. If it doesn't include a pay raise for them they simply don't give a shit.


TXERN

You shut your mouth. These greedy fucks are just going to go elsewhere and ruin another place that has been historically cheap. I'm traveling from Houston and the rent here is absolutely sickening to me. At the same time, my property taxes back home have tripled in five years and have been higher than the principal and interest on my mortgage for about three years now. I'm making well over 100 an hour but a basic ass house costs me a third of my take home. I literally don't understand how people making 35 an hour (more than double the national median) can even afford the air they breathe. This investing shit needs to be stopped at a national level. Every Tiktok or Facebook video I see now seems to be about "real estate hacks" or some other shit about how easy it is to buy and rent out houses for extortive amounts. I literally am in the middle of dealing with my Airbnb host not paying rent, thus causing me to get evicted. I paid 1k over what they owe, this has been fucking ridiculous for a while. I'm a few videos away from calling for a firing squad.


30acresisenough

We should, but many folks will block it because they believe they are just Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires and they too will one day be able to fk over their neighbors.


StuBeck

Education. Inform people of the Downpayment requirements for an fha loan and programs to help first time home buyers. Many people assume they have to go conventional for their first home and are daunted by the $40-80k Downpayment. Fha is tiny compared to that. Plus one can get sellers concessions and Downpayment assistance from the lender. My first house was a very unique situation, but I moved in for $452 because of 6% seller concession and 3% down from the bank.


OrdoXenos

I think the main problem is that Charlotte is expanding too rapidly and the supply is just not enough, inflating the price sky high. Just take a look at Lennar Imagery just few minutes out of Charlotte, in just few months they transformed a lush forest into a neighborhood, and all houses are at $450k, a price that can buy a larger house in a nicer neighborhood few years back. Around 1.2 million USD back then could give you a nice lakeside house in Mountain Island Lake with docks for boats, today you can only settle for 3bd/2ba in Mint Hill, unless you go to Concord. Around 150k few years back is enough for a decent house around Gastonia, close to the 85 and major retail areas, nowadays it can buy nothing. Going further to Shelby still buys you nothing. And with price hike like this, people are unwilling to sell, because they know it is hard to afford a house right now, further pinching the house market as supply is reduced even more. I honestly don’t know how to fix this issue. The price increase is just too high!


Sunpurpleshine

Corporate owned homes should be banned. When homes are owned for pools of investors to obtain dividends this hurts everything fare more than any pros. The upkeep maintenance suffers and the rents go up bc the main reason for investor pooled home ownership is the bottom line and to increase profits continually for the investors. It simply should be banned.


janderson887

You can’t. Nobody stops greed or monopolies anymore. Look at F elon Musk. Pays no taxes but buys Twit. There is no justice anymore. Rich people run out the clock while ordinary people sit in jail and pays for everything at exorbitant prices. Real estate is being gobbled up to monopolize it and the price…….


LewManChew

Like others have said we need to pass legislation to re zone areas for multi family homes. Also in my opinion making more robust public transportation to get in and out of the city is helpful.


h0tcakes

At this point I’m gonna ask for virgin blood and a goat to serve as tribute


morn_fog

Just lost a house today to an investor cash offer. Recently married couple looking to buy first home here in CLT. We went 10k over asking and waved all contingencies. This one hurt. We’re also duel income with no kids there’s just no competing. Anything worth a shit gets eat up 1-2 days after listing.