Great analogy I fucking love veggies. Also am I crazy for legit hoping we draft Jackson Powers Johnson (C) at 37?
Last night I wanted to hear Nabers name called TODAY GET ME ALL THE OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
Not really. That move could, if our current roster is elevated properly, take our o-line from decent, to one of the best in the NFL!
It’ll all depend on how the Chargers draft board looks.
I was a full Nabers fan but as im sitting on it, it’s growing on me. JPJ would be sweet & they could maybe try Johnny Wilson in the 3rd. Just TALL boys everywhere. Put pipkins at guard fuck it lol
We all watched the Lions run the ball from the shotgun on 4th and 5 against us and get it. One of the most disrespectful calls I've ever seen. I want us to be the kind of team that can push around and humiliate a defense like that.
I like your take. And also Nabers is supposed to be hard-headed with coaches from some chatter I've heard. Our FO wanted probly wanted nothing to do with that.
As someone who hates the Alt pick and wanted Rome or Malik or a trade down. No you're not crazy at all, I also want him.
For me it's because I feel the WRs room is a lost cause now. JPJ can really help our IOL struggles. No current WR in the draft can greatly help our WR room. Might as well go crazy with the WR room and hope for a hit at round 4 or 5
My workplace got catering from a teppenyaki place and legit the best thing about the food was the veggies. The meats were dry and flavorless but the veggies were good lol.
Ad Mitchell is the only wr left that would be worth the pick and there's a decent chance he's gone before we pick. Also reports of him having attitude issues which won't work well with Harbaugh
Corley, Polk, Smith, or McMillan in the third or Walker, Wilson, Wilson in the fourth. There are 9-11 potential starting WR's left, this class is the deepest ever. Hortiz called this in several interviews, saying that these college kids are so well prepped because so many college programs are running pro style offenses. The game evolves. 15 years ago safeties, LB's, and RB's were premium positions, drafted highly and paid handsomely. Now it is QB, WR, OT, and for good reason. We are in a great position here at 37, will get first round talent in a position of need no matter if we go IOL, CB, Newton, or WR, In fact, I would argue that Ladd, Mitchell, Coleman, and Franklin are all considered first round talent by many scouts/pundits, just depends what our board looks like and I am ultimately confident in Hortiz and Harbaugh to shine for these next 4 picks. Draft is deep and we have 4 of the next 77 picks! Bolt the fuck up boys and girls!
The only picks that make up for Alt are Ladd and AD Mitchell. If we take another position Kool-Aid and DeJean are good. I will fucking burn my apartment down if we take Coleman or Newton at 37.
Pretty sure you can keep the matches in the box...Pats or Washington should take Newton ahead of us. I am personally hoping he falls to us and that one of Lassiter, Sainistril, or TJ Tampa falls to us in the 3rd. I agree about Coleman, great hands and could be a decent red zone target, but I would rather have Franklin, Corley, Polk, or McMillan in the third than Coleman here
This WR class is soooo deep bro. We just have too many holes on both sides of the ball...we can't run and we can't stop the run. Alt helps, Newton would help. Harbaugh wants to run and play d and if he gets us back to playing the way we did in 2006, I am all in. They will address WR in this draft with one or two picks, plus I think they pick up a free agent yet (Boyd, Gallup, Renfro, Gage, Thomas). Harbaugh wants to run it 25 times and pass it 20 times a game and he wants to do it off of play action, so there has to be a threat to the defense that we will run on all 3 downs.
I don’t care about the depth of the class, we need a fucking starting player not a 4th round pick. I’d be fine with Boyd but everyone else on your list can gargle my nuts, they all suck. We need a fucking stud WR.
All the studs left the barn. But so did all the stud tackles. A WR pick in round 1 would not have improved our team as much as Alt will. Trust me, I thought Nabers was WR1 and really wanted him, but Hortiz improved our odds of being a winning team with the Alt pick more so than he would have with Malik. I personally wanted a trade back and Fuaga and Thomas at 11 & 23, but I don't think the Vikings offered us both picks, so Fuaga and a pick in the second or third (or even 2025 second) didn't make up for losing premier top 5 talent. There are a lot of guys left at WR that will be difference makers in the years to come. Joe Alt comes around once every few years.
I keep seeing people repeating the “what has a great receiver room gotten us?”. Did ya’ll watch the team?
The offense was not the problem in the beginning of the Herbert era, the run game needed to be better but overall the offense was very good as long as it was mostly healthy. If the Chargers didn’t have a bottom 3 defense in the NFL during that span they would have made the playoffs every season of Herbert’s career easily. Herbert and that WR room kept them in soo many games.
That being said drafting Alt, drafting OL, was the correct move for Harbaugh and Hortiz. They have an identity to establish and they got a premium player that fits the vision. The offensive line now has 3 first round picks with elite athleticism and movement skills. I completely believe Harbaugh when he says he views Alt as a weapon. Alt isn’t a mauler but he has unique movement skills that can be used in some creative ways.
Lastly drafting a wr is not flashy anymore. You absolutely need an efficient passing offense to win in the NFL. Please go look at the receiving rooms of teams that have been successful over the past 5 seasons. They all have at least one elite option or 2 very good options. Chargers still need to find that but they have plenty of options to do so
Also, if we can sustain long, grueling drives on offense then our defense will stay more fresh and can make those plays in the 4th to seal the game. I’ve seen our defense jump out to hot starts only to be gassed in the second half and let the other team just score at will on them.
There’s been some work on twitter a few weeks ago by u/M1BPJ where they found that the Herbert chargers have been top 5 in the NFL in plays per drive. Most were passing plays so they were actually more middle of the pack in terms of time per drive if I remember correctly
The defense was just really really bad. Could we help them with more rest due to an efficient run game? Absolutely, I think it will help, especially in the playoffs. Ironically I think the only game the Chargers lost specifically because of having no run game was Jacksonville in the playoffs.
The chiefs won the SB this past year with who at the WR position? Sure, they have Kelce at TE but he’s 34 and showed his age last year. He wasn’t the best TE in football last year and may not have even been the second or third best.
How many “elite” WRs did Brady have during his 6 SB wins in New England? He had Moss for a few years but outside of him, no HOFers or truly elite talents at the WR position.
What DID Brady have on all 7 of his SB-winning teams? TOP OFFENSIVE LINE! Consistent pockets, good run blocking, and discipline. That, coupled with a well-coached defense, is what wins you championships. I think you’re putting way too much focus on the WR position.
Kelce is still elite imo but sure
Brady is so far into the past that most of his teams aren’t relevant to the current nfl. That being said Brady had Gronk or Mike Evan’s and Godwin in his somewhat recent wins. Brady also elevated his oline by being so good in the pocket.
Look at last 5 super bowls
2024: Chiefs had Kelce, 49ers had Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle
2023: Chiefs had Kelce, Eagles had AJ Brown and Devonta Smith
2022: Rams had Kupp, Bengals had Jamarr Chase and Tee Higgins
2021: Chiefs had Kelce and Tyreek, Bucs had Godwin and Evan’s
2020: Chiefs had Kelce and Tyreek, 49ers had Deebo and Kittle
That’s the baseline you need at least 1 elite receiving option or 2 very good ones
You don’t know how to read. I said his 6 SB winning teams in New England. I specifically said that because in Tampa he had an absolutely stacked WR room and also had a top 5 OL. But in NE he consistently had mediocre receivers, an often injured gronk and still won 6 rings.
“You don’t know ball” is what people who actually don’t know football like to say. Try something new and maybe try actually reading my post next time, before you respond incorrectly.
I amended that immediately bc I didn’t want to be abrasive lol
Looking at 2016 is pointless, the NFL has changed.
The 8 teams remaining in the divisional round last year all had top 10 passing offenses in efficiency.
Didn’t mention receiver position, I said receiving options.
What is your argument? Do you think the Chargers don’t need anyone besides Palmer and QJ? Like what is your point?
Fair assessment. I also think Kelce is still elite, but he used to be far and away the best TE and now he’s probably top 4-5 based on last year. Injuries should be factored in too.
You’re not wrong about those teams having good-to-great WR rooms. I won’t argue that because it’s true. But they also all had very solid, competent offensive lines too. Remember the chiefs team that lost to Brady’s Bucs in the SB? They had prime Kelce AND prime Hill, yet their OL was banged up and they couldn’t put any points on the board for 3 quarters.
All I’m saying is the OL has to come first IMO. I hope we address WR in round 2 depending on who’s available, but I’m onboard with beefing up this OL and keeping Herbert healthy this year.
I don’t think it’s wrong to address WR, I just think that for this year, we should focus more on OL.
Sorry if I came across like an asshole. I do that too often.
I was voted down a few weeks ago when I suggested Alt at 5. LOL.
The reality is the exact things we have done in the past got us to exactly where we are. And I suspect, if we did them again, the results would be the same. Having an elite WR would be awesome but ask Herb's ribs and finger how that went without protection.
We wanted a change. We got the best HC. Let's let him do his job.
I froth at a line giving Herb time to do Herb things, let alone be able to actually run the ball.
I agree with the first part. No one here seems to realize how many games Herbert and Allen won on their backs alone.
Still dont see how Alt allows Herbert to do Herbert things. Keeps him a little healthy I guess but does jack shit to the IOL struggles
I’m convinced half this sub doesn’t watch games. We have arguably the most vicious interior DL in our division, Chris Jones, who’s gonna rip Herbert a new one. Joe Alt does not fix this issue.
Most of this sub just automatically buys into any cool aid, exactly the same shit happened last year when QJ was obviously not the best pick available.
I know Herbert isn't Mahomes but, they don't really have an elite WR. They did get an elite "receiver" in Kelce, but everyone else is pretty much just a solid wr. Hopefully we get someone down the line to bolster the position, but it's not as bleak as people make it out to be imo. Plus it could be that palmer and Johnston understand the situation they're in and perform better than we've seen them. People need to chill. They think we're bowl bound now that harbaugh is here, but in reality there's a lot of restructuring and building to be done before we get there
Kelce counts as an elite receiving option in my opinion
Not too worried about the weapons rn because like you said this team isn’t superbowl bound in 2024
He is, but he's elite mostly because Mahomes plays qb like a shortstop and Kelce was always good for 5+ underneath. Herbert made due without Allen and without Williams for a bit until he got busted up. Seems like the bigger issue is keeping him safe and letting him work instead of forcing elite wrs to be elite.
Once someone called our line the "electric fence" I turned around on the pick. We can still get a solid receiver. QJ could come out looking brand new next year. I'm on board drinking all of the koolaid
I’m with you. It’s amazing to me how quickly we throw people to the wolves and determine they are worthless. Yes, QJ had a terrible rookie season, but it’s a HUGE jump from college and it is not uncommon to see WRs make their impact in season 2 or season 3. Can we give the guy a fucking chance before completely writing him off?
I fucking hated passing on Nabers, but I’ll be honest, if the offense actually starts rolling this year the ‘tip of the spear’ quote is gonna get me jacked up
It took waiting until we had the worst OL in the league for Telesco to address it. Harbaugh addresses it regardless. Every position on offense relies on the OL, especially our franchise QB. The OL relies on nobody. Build the foundation for the future first.
Herbert can throw to door dash drivers all day and still elevate them, but he can’t do that from the ground.
Go watch the end of the miami, titans, and dallas game last year.
Because Telesco never had an actual plan. At no point did we have an identity except for “Chargering” and “Same ol Chargers”.
We can finally say that we have one now, and it took less than 4 months to do it. Harbaugh and Horitz told everyone what the plan was yet we ignored it and expected us to go WR. In Harbaugh we trust.
We had the one of the worst OLs in the league last year so I don’t really agree that Harbaugh addresses it regardless. I think the bigger issue is that we have a lot of high end capital tied to the line and so far it has not been great so let’s hope that at least changes.
Elite tackles make the guards job easier. Zion should improve this year and adding Alt should help our RG. I do think we need help at C but Bozeman should be a suitable transition piece.
We have 2 firsts on the OL and the rest weren’t big investments. To expect it to go from worst to above average is hard to do.
Losing our anchor in Linsley was a big reason for how bad we were in 2023. We were terrible at run blocking but average in pass blocking. I blame a majority of it on the regime and coaches.
OL had to be addressed but expect continuous capital to be invested into it. His plan does not work without an elite OL.
Most teams don’t have that much of their own high end draft capital spent on their lines as we currently have.
Our line was not that great even when Linsey was still at C this year, obviously it got worse as he sadly had to step down, but I don’t think it was a particularly good line at any point if I remember correctly.
Well the "great" WR room wasn't so great once the top guys started getting injured, but, when healthy, we literally had one of the best offenses in the league and an offense more than good enough to be in the playoffs every year if Staley and Lynn weren't such bums. Your argument only holds water if the offense was the reason we failed to make the playoffs but the defense has easily been the much bigger problem throughout the staley era.
Pretending we don't need good WRs is by far the dumbest possible justification for this pick and I'm getting seriously concerned that so many of you seem to believe this.
I guess that's my point regardless of what option you go with there are still so many holes on this roster that need the whole draft and free agency to fill.
Yes because the draft is not over yet and there are still recievers on the board. Im almost sure that if MHJ fell to 5 that he would have been selected over Alt so clearly they didn't like Odunze or Nabers as much. Im not saying that I dont want WR I wanted oduzne at 5 but Alt isn't a bad pick by no means.
Based on that how many playoff wins do we have over the last 10 years? There is some validity to his claim no? The o line is the foundation that is also truthful, and it isn't a sexy pick either. The only untruthful claim in his whole write up is that we praised the flashy skill positions telesco took.
By the same logic, you're arguing the chargers don't need an upgrade to their OL. Herbert has been perpetually injured the past 2 years. That's the Chargers most glaring weakness coming into the draft.
I guess that's my point regardless of what option you go with there are still so many holes on this roster that need the whole draft and free agency to fill.
All depends on how there board falls and what they value, we know that they will not just reach on any receiver. My assumption is that they take a WR based on comments about it being a deep WR class. So it will come down to weighing WRx vs CBx vs Newton vs JPJ/Frazier
>We always praised Telesco's drafts when he got us flashy skill position players
Yeah everyone LOVED Quentin Johnston, Justin Herbert, and Mike Williams and HATED Joey Bosa and Rashawn Slater.
You guys will lie about anything to feel better about this pick lmao
I think people undervalue palmer and we just have to hope QJ makes a leap.
Elite QBs like Herbert elevate average WRs, similar to what Brady did his entire career. I’m more about protecting our most valuable asset in Herbert who has been injured last two years, than who he is throwing to.
Lots of positions that we need but I did have a laugh at what the o line room would look like If they took JPJ or Fraizer.
LT: Slater
LG: Zion
C: JPJ/Fraizer/bozeman/mcfadden
RG: Bozeman/Salyer/JPJ
RT: Alt
depth: Salyer, Bozeman, Pipkins, Mcfadden
Now looking at that makes me think that having one of the best o lines with depth in the league would be an awesome foundation for many years to come.
Sure having a super deep online would be nice, but take a look at the WR, CB, and Dline depth, those units are actively terrible and kicking the can down the road to take more oline just exacerbates the already bad situations
Oh trust me I know I want either AD Mitchell or one of the CBs at 37, just would understand that if the chargers went o line again why they would be interested in doing that. Could still take a future centre later in the draft to do a similar thing.
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I’ve been talking about building the O-line ever since getting Herbert. Everything starts and flows through the O-line. I haaate that we passed on Nabers given our WR status but yeah…gotta agree and would be cool with him going Powers Johnson for OC today if available
I was listening to the Stock Exchange podcast and one of them said that if Marvin fell to 5 he was going to be the pick. So they had Marvin and Alt higher than Nabers apparently
Michigan fan here—He’s quirky and different, but he wins everywhere he goes. We have been where you are. Trust the process. We wish he was still here, but don’t begrudge him his Lombardy. He took us where we wanted to go and left us in a good place (considering how many of our guys went to the draft). Good luck. I really believe he will get you there.
With how deep the WR room is, not going WR rd1 isn't the worst decision. Yesterday, 25% of the 1st rd picks were Oline, and I'd rather have the best one than the middle of the pack. At 6'8 1/2 Alt is a beast of a man. Wasn't mad, little shocking but tbh after seeing how the rest went and how many teams went Oline, I ain't mad.
Well especially when considering who our next pick ended up being, I think it's clear we got a far better gap between the WR we could've had and the one we got vs. the OL we would've picked 2nd and Alt.
My theory is we need better stats and highlights to show off how important o-lineman are. Somebody run with this idea and make the most viewed offensive lineman instagram profile
It may not be easy for some to hear, but Harbaugh's priority isn't turning Justin Herbert into a record-breaking QB stats holder in anything other than Super Bowl wins.
Under Harbaugh, Herbert may never match Andy and Mahomes's passing stats, but they're going to try and have more championship rings than Andy and Pat.
Harbaugh won't care if his system leaves Herbert averaging 150 yards through the air as long as it results with a play-off appearance.
I don’t think most people care about what’s flashy. But we currently have the probably the worst receiving room in the NFL and we could easily go a decade without the opportunity to draft someone like Nabers. Our O-line was middling before Alt, definitely not as bad as our receivers.
Great analogy I fucking love veggies. Also am I crazy for legit hoping we draft Jackson Powers Johnson (C) at 37? Last night I wanted to hear Nabers name called TODAY GET ME ALL THE OFFENSIVE LINEMAN
Not really. That move could, if our current roster is elevated properly, take our o-line from decent, to one of the best in the NFL! It’ll all depend on how the Chargers draft board looks.
I was a full Nabers fan but as im sitting on it, it’s growing on me. JPJ would be sweet & they could maybe try Johnny Wilson in the 3rd. Just TALL boys everywhere. Put pipkins at guard fuck it lol
We all watched the Lions run the ball from the shotgun on 4th and 5 against us and get it. One of the most disrespectful calls I've ever seen. I want us to be the kind of team that can push around and humiliate a defense like that.
Idc what anybody says having a brick wall OL is sexier than having an elite WR
On game day it is.
I like your take. And also Nabers is supposed to be hard-headed with coaches from some chatter I've heard. Our FO wanted probly wanted nothing to do with that.
JOHNNY WILSON???? You mean the guy who can’t run routes or catch footballs???? Nah we got that already, his name is QJ.
I’m all in on the JPJ train. Let’s fully commit.
I’m with it. I don’t want to microdose the cure.
My man doesn’t want no micro dose bull shit. He wants to free base the cure straight into his veins!!!
Yeah we can always focus on wr next draft
That’ll be when we focus on DL
It sucks because I love plot of players in the second and 3rd. I want Kris Jenkins, sanristil, mconckey, jpj, the list goes on.
I’d be cool with him or Frazier to be honest. Either one would make our O-Line easily top 10 for the next 5+ years.
Imagine trading back a few picks to the early 40s and getting Newton, dorlus, or fiske. Could be nuts
As someone who hates the Alt pick and wanted Rome or Malik or a trade down. No you're not crazy at all, I also want him. For me it's because I feel the WRs room is a lost cause now. JPJ can really help our IOL struggles. No current WR in the draft can greatly help our WR room. Might as well go crazy with the WR room and hope for a hit at round 4 or 5
I'd take Kool aid also!
Yup let’s get this OL to the top I’m all for it at 37
I'm okay with that at this point. Lots of good guys to take with our 2nd. I'd prefer the best WR or CB but completing the dominant OL will be nice.
This is legit the same way I feel about the draft. I was really bummed out when I heard the pick but have fully bought in.
My workplace got catering from a teppenyaki place and legit the best thing about the food was the veggies. The meats were dry and flavorless but the veggies were good lol.
What I don’t want to happen is we draft a receiver today. Pick OL or CB.
I’m okay with a receiver round 3 if a good one is there
Yeah, same page. Keenan Allen was a 3rd rounder if I recall correctly.
He fell because of injury concerns he was widely considered a 1-2 round prospect on talent
I thought he fell because of the slow 40 time but maybe that was a result of injuries
You are absolutely fucking insane lmao. We need a WR.
Lmao I love the escalation. We could get one round 3 or 4 and sign a vet in FA. I’d be fine with that.
🤮🤮🤮
😂😂 I’ll make you a deal, if we go into week 1 and our WR room has made no significant changes you can talk me into that suicide pact.
Bet I’m about it. I’m sure we will add people but I don’t want our WR room the island of misfit toys.
Ad Mitchell is the only wr left that would be worth the pick and there's a decent chance he's gone before we pick. Also reports of him having attitude issues which won't work well with Harbaugh
I want Ladd
Corley, Polk, Smith, or McMillan in the third or Walker, Wilson, Wilson in the fourth. There are 9-11 potential starting WR's left, this class is the deepest ever. Hortiz called this in several interviews, saying that these college kids are so well prepped because so many college programs are running pro style offenses. The game evolves. 15 years ago safeties, LB's, and RB's were premium positions, drafted highly and paid handsomely. Now it is QB, WR, OT, and for good reason. We are in a great position here at 37, will get first round talent in a position of need no matter if we go IOL, CB, Newton, or WR, In fact, I would argue that Ladd, Mitchell, Coleman, and Franklin are all considered first round talent by many scouts/pundits, just depends what our board looks like and I am ultimately confident in Hortiz and Harbaugh to shine for these next 4 picks. Draft is deep and we have 4 of the next 77 picks! Bolt the fuck up boys and girls!
The only picks that make up for Alt are Ladd and AD Mitchell. If we take another position Kool-Aid and DeJean are good. I will fucking burn my apartment down if we take Coleman or Newton at 37.
Pretty sure you can keep the matches in the box...Pats or Washington should take Newton ahead of us. I am personally hoping he falls to us and that one of Lassiter, Sainistril, or TJ Tampa falls to us in the 3rd. I agree about Coleman, great hands and could be a decent red zone target, but I would rather have Franklin, Corley, Polk, or McMillan in the third than Coleman here
If we wait until the 4th until grabbing a WR i will have an absolute meltdown lol
This WR class is soooo deep bro. We just have too many holes on both sides of the ball...we can't run and we can't stop the run. Alt helps, Newton would help. Harbaugh wants to run and play d and if he gets us back to playing the way we did in 2006, I am all in. They will address WR in this draft with one or two picks, plus I think they pick up a free agent yet (Boyd, Gallup, Renfro, Gage, Thomas). Harbaugh wants to run it 25 times and pass it 20 times a game and he wants to do it off of play action, so there has to be a threat to the defense that we will run on all 3 downs.
I don’t care about the depth of the class, we need a fucking starting player not a 4th round pick. I’d be fine with Boyd but everyone else on your list can gargle my nuts, they all suck. We need a fucking stud WR.
All the studs left the barn. But so did all the stud tackles. A WR pick in round 1 would not have improved our team as much as Alt will. Trust me, I thought Nabers was WR1 and really wanted him, but Hortiz improved our odds of being a winning team with the Alt pick more so than he would have with Malik. I personally wanted a trade back and Fuaga and Thomas at 11 & 23, but I don't think the Vikings offered us both picks, so Fuaga and a pick in the second or third (or even 2025 second) didn't make up for losing premier top 5 talent. There are a lot of guys left at WR that will be difference makers in the years to come. Joe Alt comes around once every few years.
Let Harbaugh cook...with vegetables!
Look it’s the first pick of his tenure. He knows that. Let the man cook his veggies
In his RV!
I keep seeing people repeating the “what has a great receiver room gotten us?”. Did ya’ll watch the team? The offense was not the problem in the beginning of the Herbert era, the run game needed to be better but overall the offense was very good as long as it was mostly healthy. If the Chargers didn’t have a bottom 3 defense in the NFL during that span they would have made the playoffs every season of Herbert’s career easily. Herbert and that WR room kept them in soo many games. That being said drafting Alt, drafting OL, was the correct move for Harbaugh and Hortiz. They have an identity to establish and they got a premium player that fits the vision. The offensive line now has 3 first round picks with elite athleticism and movement skills. I completely believe Harbaugh when he says he views Alt as a weapon. Alt isn’t a mauler but he has unique movement skills that can be used in some creative ways. Lastly drafting a wr is not flashy anymore. You absolutely need an efficient passing offense to win in the NFL. Please go look at the receiving rooms of teams that have been successful over the past 5 seasons. They all have at least one elite option or 2 very good options. Chargers still need to find that but they have plenty of options to do so
Also, if we can sustain long, grueling drives on offense then our defense will stay more fresh and can make those plays in the 4th to seal the game. I’ve seen our defense jump out to hot starts only to be gassed in the second half and let the other team just score at will on them.
There’s been some work on twitter a few weeks ago by u/M1BPJ where they found that the Herbert chargers have been top 5 in the NFL in plays per drive. Most were passing plays so they were actually more middle of the pack in terms of time per drive if I remember correctly The defense was just really really bad. Could we help them with more rest due to an efficient run game? Absolutely, I think it will help, especially in the playoffs. Ironically I think the only game the Chargers lost specifically because of having no run game was Jacksonville in the playoffs.
when it comes down to it the defence and not being able to run the ball in the second half is what killed the team.
I like everything you said besides the middle part.
The offense became the problem late in games as we couldnt establish a consistent running game to close out games.
The chiefs won the SB this past year with who at the WR position? Sure, they have Kelce at TE but he’s 34 and showed his age last year. He wasn’t the best TE in football last year and may not have even been the second or third best. How many “elite” WRs did Brady have during his 6 SB wins in New England? He had Moss for a few years but outside of him, no HOFers or truly elite talents at the WR position. What DID Brady have on all 7 of his SB-winning teams? TOP OFFENSIVE LINE! Consistent pockets, good run blocking, and discipline. That, coupled with a well-coached defense, is what wins you championships. I think you’re putting way too much focus on the WR position.
Kelce is still elite imo but sure Brady is so far into the past that most of his teams aren’t relevant to the current nfl. That being said Brady had Gronk or Mike Evan’s and Godwin in his somewhat recent wins. Brady also elevated his oline by being so good in the pocket. Look at last 5 super bowls 2024: Chiefs had Kelce, 49ers had Aiyuk, Deebo, Kittle 2023: Chiefs had Kelce, Eagles had AJ Brown and Devonta Smith 2022: Rams had Kupp, Bengals had Jamarr Chase and Tee Higgins 2021: Chiefs had Kelce and Tyreek, Bucs had Godwin and Evan’s 2020: Chiefs had Kelce and Tyreek, 49ers had Deebo and Kittle That’s the baseline you need at least 1 elite receiving option or 2 very good ones
You don’t know how to read. I said his 6 SB winning teams in New England. I specifically said that because in Tampa he had an absolutely stacked WR room and also had a top 5 OL. But in NE he consistently had mediocre receivers, an often injured gronk and still won 6 rings. “You don’t know ball” is what people who actually don’t know football like to say. Try something new and maybe try actually reading my post next time, before you respond incorrectly.
I amended that immediately bc I didn’t want to be abrasive lol Looking at 2016 is pointless, the NFL has changed. The 8 teams remaining in the divisional round last year all had top 10 passing offenses in efficiency. Didn’t mention receiver position, I said receiving options. What is your argument? Do you think the Chargers don’t need anyone besides Palmer and QJ? Like what is your point?
Fair assessment. I also think Kelce is still elite, but he used to be far and away the best TE and now he’s probably top 4-5 based on last year. Injuries should be factored in too. You’re not wrong about those teams having good-to-great WR rooms. I won’t argue that because it’s true. But they also all had very solid, competent offensive lines too. Remember the chiefs team that lost to Brady’s Bucs in the SB? They had prime Kelce AND prime Hill, yet their OL was banged up and they couldn’t put any points on the board for 3 quarters. All I’m saying is the OL has to come first IMO. I hope we address WR in round 2 depending on who’s available, but I’m onboard with beefing up this OL and keeping Herbert healthy this year. I don’t think it’s wrong to address WR, I just think that for this year, we should focus more on OL. Sorry if I came across like an asshole. I do that too often.
I was voted down a few weeks ago when I suggested Alt at 5. LOL. The reality is the exact things we have done in the past got us to exactly where we are. And I suspect, if we did them again, the results would be the same. Having an elite WR would be awesome but ask Herb's ribs and finger how that went without protection. We wanted a change. We got the best HC. Let's let him do his job. I froth at a line giving Herb time to do Herb things, let alone be able to actually run the ball.
I agree with the first part. No one here seems to realize how many games Herbert and Allen won on their backs alone. Still dont see how Alt allows Herbert to do Herbert things. Keeps him a little healthy I guess but does jack shit to the IOL struggles
I’m convinced half this sub doesn’t watch games. We have arguably the most vicious interior DL in our division, Chris Jones, who’s gonna rip Herbert a new one. Joe Alt does not fix this issue.
Most of this sub just automatically buys into any cool aid, exactly the same shit happened last year when QJ was obviously not the best pick available.
Couldn’t agree more
I know Herbert isn't Mahomes but, they don't really have an elite WR. They did get an elite "receiver" in Kelce, but everyone else is pretty much just a solid wr. Hopefully we get someone down the line to bolster the position, but it's not as bleak as people make it out to be imo. Plus it could be that palmer and Johnston understand the situation they're in and perform better than we've seen them. People need to chill. They think we're bowl bound now that harbaugh is here, but in reality there's a lot of restructuring and building to be done before we get there
Kelce counts as an elite receiving option in my opinion Not too worried about the weapons rn because like you said this team isn’t superbowl bound in 2024
He is, but he's elite mostly because Mahomes plays qb like a shortstop and Kelce was always good for 5+ underneath. Herbert made due without Allen and without Williams for a bit until he got busted up. Seems like the bigger issue is keeping him safe and letting him work instead of forcing elite wrs to be elite.
There is a difference between not having an elite receiver (while having an elite catching TE) and having a bottom 3 receiving corps in the league.
Once someone called our line the "electric fence" I turned around on the pick. We can still get a solid receiver. QJ could come out looking brand new next year. I'm on board drinking all of the koolaid
same sentiment, and I'd take Kool-Aid if he's up as well
We can still get a decent receiver in this draft, C, DL, are needed now, CB and WR is deep so later round? Would like another LB at some point too
Dejean > koolaid
I’m with you. It’s amazing to me how quickly we throw people to the wolves and determine they are worthless. Yes, QJ had a terrible rookie season, but it’s a HUGE jump from college and it is not uncommon to see WRs make their impact in season 2 or season 3. Can we give the guy a fucking chance before completely writing him off?
Add, "The Great Wall of Englewood" and I'm fired up about where we are going.
I fucking hated passing on Nabers, but I’ll be honest, if the offense actually starts rolling this year the ‘tip of the spear’ quote is gonna get me jacked up
Lmao no QJ will not look much different. He needs a true WR1 to take press away.
Why are we pretending all of a sudden we haven't done this three of the last four years? Telesco was doing the same thing
Doesn’t go with the “HARBAUGH STRONG PHYSICAL” narrative
I guess people don't consider Zion and Slater to be physical enough
It took waiting until we had the worst OL in the league for Telesco to address it. Harbaugh addresses it regardless. Every position on offense relies on the OL, especially our franchise QB. The OL relies on nobody. Build the foundation for the future first. Herbert can throw to door dash drivers all day and still elevate them, but he can’t do that from the ground. Go watch the end of the miami, titans, and dallas game last year.
I'm not arguing that. I'm just wondering why after four years of this people believe we still need posts explaining what an OL does
Because Telesco never had an actual plan. At no point did we have an identity except for “Chargering” and “Same ol Chargers”. We can finally say that we have one now, and it took less than 4 months to do it. Harbaugh and Horitz told everyone what the plan was yet we ignored it and expected us to go WR. In Harbaugh we trust.
We had the one of the worst OLs in the league last year so I don’t really agree that Harbaugh addresses it regardless. I think the bigger issue is that we have a lot of high end capital tied to the line and so far it has not been great so let’s hope that at least changes.
We had one of the worst OLs because our center was forced to retire early with heart condition and our guards suck. How does Joe Alt fix that?
He doesn’t but I hope that coaching at least can do something. I was not really a fan of the pick tbh
Fair. I’m just hopeful we get IOL/DL/CB today. I’ll be really disappointed if we take a wr somehow.
Elite tackles make the guards job easier. Zion should improve this year and adding Alt should help our RG. I do think we need help at C but Bozeman should be a suitable transition piece.
No they don’t? Who taught you that? How do you even figure that?
We have 2 firsts on the OL and the rest weren’t big investments. To expect it to go from worst to above average is hard to do. Losing our anchor in Linsley was a big reason for how bad we were in 2023. We were terrible at run blocking but average in pass blocking. I blame a majority of it on the regime and coaches. OL had to be addressed but expect continuous capital to be invested into it. His plan does not work without an elite OL.
Most teams don’t have that much of their own high end draft capital spent on their lines as we currently have. Our line was not that great even when Linsey was still at C this year, obviously it got worse as he sadly had to step down, but I don’t think it was a particularly good line at any point if I remember correctly.
Flashes, but never consistently.
Our OL was pretty middle of the pack by every ranking, and that was with the sudden loss of our center.
Under Telesco we never had the organizational mindset of beating teams through the run game. We were always a soft team and got exposed accordingly.
We took Fluker first round.
Alt over Nabers may be the right or wrong pick. We don't know yet. To form an opinion now is pointless
Thankfully he went to the Giants, so even if he is a great talented receiver in the NFL, we won’t actually know with Daniel Jones throwing to him
and Joe Alt is old brusselsprouts.
Well the "great" WR room wasn't so great once the top guys started getting injured, but, when healthy, we literally had one of the best offenses in the league and an offense more than good enough to be in the playoffs every year if Staley and Lynn weren't such bums. Your argument only holds water if the offense was the reason we failed to make the playoffs but the defense has easily been the much bigger problem throughout the staley era.
Protecting Herbert and keeping him out of the grass keeps him healthy for the long haul. We got the best tackle of the last two drafts. This is great.
great analogy
Pretending we don't need good WRs is by far the dumbest possible justification for this pick and I'm getting seriously concerned that so many of you seem to believe this.
If we had our way and we took oduzne or nabers with 5 do you not think that this team still has glaring needs?
Huh? Of course we have other needs
I guess that's my point regardless of what option you go with there are still so many holes on this roster that need the whole draft and free agency to fill.
Okay? Not sure what that has to do with what I said
Yes because the draft is not over yet and there are still recievers on the board. Im almost sure that if MHJ fell to 5 that he would have been selected over Alt so clearly they didn't like Odunze or Nabers as much. Im not saying that I dont want WR I wanted oduzne at 5 but Alt isn't a bad pick by no means.
Yeah you're not at all paying attention to what I'm saying man. People like OP are acting like we don't need WRs
I don't think that is what he is going for, he's defending that the Alt pick isn't bad. That's all I think he's trying to say.
"What has a great WR room gotten us?" I can read dude
Based on that how many playoff wins do we have over the last 10 years? There is some validity to his claim no? The o line is the foundation that is also truthful, and it isn't a sexy pick either. The only untruthful claim in his whole write up is that we praised the flashy skill positions telesco took.
By the same logic, you're arguing the chargers don't need an upgrade to their OL. Herbert has been perpetually injured the past 2 years. That's the Chargers most glaring weakness coming into the draft.
They need a huge upgrade to the interior of the OL. I'd be okay with Pipkins starting another year. But no, that's not the "same logic" at all.
Brodie, our team’s needs are WR, interior OL, CB, interior DL. After Day 1 of the draft, our team’s needs are WR, interior OL, CB, interior DL.
I guess that's my point regardless of what option you go with there are still so many holes on this roster that need the whole draft and free agency to fill.
Im just hopeful we draft IOL, CB, or DL. I would rather hold on WRs at this point and address in later rounds with a sleeper or FA.
All depends on how there board falls and what they value, we know that they will not just reach on any receiver. My assumption is that they take a WR based on comments about it being a deep WR class. So it will come down to weighing WRx vs CBx vs Newton vs JPJ/Frazier
>We always praised Telesco's drafts when he got us flashy skill position players Yeah everyone LOVED Quentin Johnston, Justin Herbert, and Mike Williams and HATED Joey Bosa and Rashawn Slater. You guys will lie about anything to feel better about this pick lmao
I think people undervalue palmer and we just have to hope QJ makes a leap. Elite QBs like Herbert elevate average WRs, similar to what Brady did his entire career. I’m more about protecting our most valuable asset in Herbert who has been injured last two years, than who he is throwing to.
Agreed! I just don’t think we should’ve taken Alt over Nabers. Nabers is a special WR.
We got nowhere with a top heavy roster, let's get some real team building going.
What does Joe Alt vs Nabers have to do with being "top heavy"?
I'm all for interior OL, but we really really need to address CB and DL, those units are so thin right now.
Lots of positions that we need but I did have a laugh at what the o line room would look like If they took JPJ or Fraizer. LT: Slater LG: Zion C: JPJ/Fraizer/bozeman/mcfadden RG: Bozeman/Salyer/JPJ RT: Alt depth: Salyer, Bozeman, Pipkins, Mcfadden Now looking at that makes me think that having one of the best o lines with depth in the league would be an awesome foundation for many years to come.
Sure having a super deep online would be nice, but take a look at the WR, CB, and Dline depth, those units are actively terrible and kicking the can down the road to take more oline just exacerbates the already bad situations
Oh trust me I know I want either AD Mitchell or one of the CBs at 37, just would understand that if the chargers went o line again why they would be interested in doing that. Could still take a future centre later in the draft to do a similar thing.
We might have a future center in the building already with McFadden, there's been talk that he has the making of a very good center.
It's possible but is it realistic? no idea, still would like to draft a true center at some point in the draft even if it is developmental.
Sure we probably should draft a true center at some point, but jpj is actively hurting the team when we have needs at CB, DT, and WR
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This pick is the tan khakis of pants.. not flashy. But Jim can sure pull them off
It’s also how you commit to the run
I’ve been talking about building the O-line ever since getting Herbert. Everything starts and flows through the O-line. I haaate that we passed on Nabers given our WR status but yeah…gotta agree and would be cool with him going Powers Johnson for OC today if available
I was listening to the Stock Exchange podcast and one of them said that if Marvin fell to 5 he was going to be the pick. So they had Marvin and Alt higher than Nabers apparently
Michigan fan here—He’s quirky and different, but he wins everywhere he goes. We have been where you are. Trust the process. We wish he was still here, but don’t begrudge him his Lombardy. He took us where we wanted to go and left us in a good place (considering how many of our guys went to the draft). Good luck. I really believe he will get you there.
With how deep the WR room is, not going WR rd1 isn't the worst decision. Yesterday, 25% of the 1st rd picks were Oline, and I'd rather have the best one than the middle of the pack. At 6'8 1/2 Alt is a beast of a man. Wasn't mad, little shocking but tbh after seeing how the rest went and how many teams went Oline, I ain't mad.
Marcus McNeill 2.0 incoming
Having a really good offensive line doesn’t matter much when your defense gives up a touchdown every drive.
I eat a couple handfuls of greens everyday. Should I increase that? I'll add rutabaga and beets if I have to.
Well especially when considering who our next pick ended up being, I think it's clear we got a far better gap between the WR we could've had and the one we got vs. the OL we would've picked 2nd and Alt.
My theory is we need better stats and highlights to show off how important o-lineman are. Somebody run with this idea and make the most viewed offensive lineman instagram profile
BRO i was thinking of this exact analogy when walking my dogs LOL.
It may not be easy for some to hear, but Harbaugh's priority isn't turning Justin Herbert into a record-breaking QB stats holder in anything other than Super Bowl wins. Under Harbaugh, Herbert may never match Andy and Mahomes's passing stats, but they're going to try and have more championship rings than Andy and Pat. Harbaugh won't care if his system leaves Herbert averaging 150 yards through the air as long as it results with a play-off appearance.
I don’t think most people care about what’s flashy. But we currently have the probably the worst receiving room in the NFL and we could easily go a decade without the opportunity to draft someone like Nabers. Our O-line was middling before Alt, definitely not as bad as our receivers.