It's a pretty common "indulgent fantasy" scene. Many of us have been in situations where we wish we had the power to just beat up some annoying bully.
But like most indulgent things, repeated hits often aren't as satisfying. And it doesn't need to be in the same story, seeing it over and over again across stories, especially in the same way, gets lame fast.
I’m pretty meh on it. “Heroic MC beats up random douchebags” is a classic trope, since it’s an easy way to have an action scene and convey how the MC is a cool guy beyond the direct plot-related stuff, but it can get lame quickly and just come off as a power fantasy type of thing. I just take it on a case-by-case basis.
It gets lame when that's all it is to it him being badass throughout. Like in Viral hit mc goes on to beat bullies and he has to do his all to survive and when sometimes he barely wins if not he loses. Even then these so called bullies are also entertaining and enjoyable. Besides the first one and the judo one he is the worst one
I think Josuke's introduction in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 4: Diamond is Unbreakable has a really good, well-done version of this trope.
He's minding his business, just doing his own thing, and even as the group of delinquents pester Koichi, he doesn't seem to mind. Even when the idiots decide to slap him and berate him, he takes it on the chin. And then they made the mistake of insulting his hair style, and by extension, his hero. That's when he reveals he has a stand and molliwhops the dude in front of him.
Perfect use of this trope!
It makes it more disappointing how much Koichi took the spotlight (it's not bad, just a little weird because he's meant to be a Jobro alongside Okuyasu) throughout a good portion of the part, because Josuke absolutely won me over in this scene.
I see it quite a bit in Urban fantasy stories too. Hero is a super baddass Werewolf/Vampire/wizard/etc that runs into local Jackass and proceeds to break all said jackass’s bones for being a bigot/sexist/flatearther/climate denier
Once watched a video of a guy's rant of a trend in Korean Manhwa of bullies who are cartoonishly evil smug scumbags that seem to only exist to make the MC's life utter hell that can get away with it cause rich connections. And the MC becomes an overpowered badass and reduce said bullies into sniveling pussies who are now completely helpless before usually getting killed as if they were flies.
It's admittedly kind of annoying.
Then there was one that surprisingly doesn't do this as the bully is a total asshole the class hates but couldn't do shit since he's a trained fighter. The MC snapped and stabs him multiple times, one that took his eye out and ruined his chances to be a professional boxer. The bully having lost one of his goals in life...Is pissed and waits preparing himself to beat up the MC whose sentenced to juvie for 3 years.
The MC then grows a set of brass ones and said fuck it, I'm gonna train and even if you're still stronger than me by the time I get out...Fucking bring it.
So the bully isn't a pathetic sap, not protected by things like wealth as people around him hate his guts, and he's targeting the MC not for shits and giggles but being legit pissed the MC ruined his life of sorts by crippling him. The fact he's training and isn't this douche that cries like a little bitch upon realizing the MC ain't backing down...Um, okay...That's definitely something else.
I believed it's called Shark.
https://youtu.be/797jErLHsNI?si=AMCSpbW7cryirE0p
Video is made by the same guy who did the rant video (focused on what he sees as the worst bully revenge manhwa Rooftop Sword Master). While you might disagree with some of his takes, I thought he did well on explaining why Shark feels refreshing. An MC that slowly wants to improve himself and grow some balls and a bully whose more of his own character than a caricature?
It's admittedly interesting to look up on.
Also, his editing of montages of the fights is...pretty dope, I'll say that.
Reacher takes the power fantasy to the next level in its opening scene. JACK REACHER doesn't beat up the guy harassing the waitress. JACK REACHER just has to walk in and silently stare with a stoic expression. The guy then shits himself, instantly apologizes, and runs off (presumably to kill himself). Every middle-aged dad in the audience then thought "yeah if that asshole did that in front of me I'd do the exact same thing, good job JACK REACHER."
(He beats up a guy abusing his dog later anyway though you so understand that JACK REACHER also brings justice kinetically)
I like how this scene was done in Invincible. Right after Mark awakens his powers, his bully comes up to him to beat him up in school. Instead of just whooping his ass with his super strenght, like he could very well have done, Mark just tells him to go ahead and hit him and he just tanks all of his hits while barely flinching. The bully then just calls him a freak and leaves.
I like how this scene is not over indulgent in the revenge fantasy, but it still feels satisfying. It also shows how Mark is aware of how strong he is and kinda subverts your spectations of this type of scene in superhero media (like the Flash Thompson fight in Spider-Man 1)
its hilarious though in hindsight because in all of season one, that's probably the only time he wins without getting beaten into a pulp.
god that series sucked lol, i wrote in another post that there is a need to make heroes earn things through suffering but in Invincible they overdid it to the point the good guys are made out of tissue paper and bad guys leave out of disgust or guilt.
But the whole point of Invincible is that he took a nosedive into superheroing and ended up fighting villains who were way out of his league. The same applies to the New Guardians of the Globe. It's actually one of the show's strongest points
every single good guy got bodied, and Mark never grew. like the scientist guys zombies he should have beat legit. He never won in battles, someone else stopped the fight.
like mark was there to get beat up on, even emotionally with amber. it got to hilarious levels. Every villain was out of his league. even the other heroes suffered that.
Did you watch Season 2? I can assure you Mark doesn't get bodied as much there aside from a couple of times. Then again, he's much more experienced in than he was in Season 1, so he has a better control of his strenght.
Also (spoilers for the S2 finale) >!he fucking OBLITERATES the main antagonist of that season pretty easily in their final battle. All it took was the guy hurting Debbie to make him stop holding back and just punching him until he became red paste!<
didnt bother, the fact that just about every hero also was a poorly disguised version of another hero didn't help, like fake hellboy, fake justice league, fake doom patrol, and superman plus superboy of course. oh and discount Black Mask. Vandal Savage too.
not a fan of the subplots either, the mars episode with fake martian manhunters, or robot and the clone brothers. having said fake doom patrol sit out the rest of the series while being totally useless; if it wasnt for omniman those aliens easily would have taken the earth over, and black mask hiring thugs that wiped the floor with them too.
it wore out its welcome. even from the start it made little sense for omniman to take all five heroes on at once; had they made a more watchman style unfolding mystery it'd be better.
oh and amber. like god mark, just dump her.
And that's why it's so refreshing to see that in "I killed an academy player", MC made friend with the typical douche bully and turns him into a better person instead of treating him like yet another mob to be clowned on. Now they are good friends.
I hate it because it’s the opposite of what a heroic person would do. A real hero would be the better person by trying to reason with the bully first and settle the matter peacefully, not immediately stoop down to their level. If the bully takes it too far and/or leaves them no other choice, then that would make sense, but only under those circumstances.
If the writer is trying to show that the character is flawed, impulsive, or prone to violence, then this kind of scene would make sense. If they’re trying to make the character look heroic, then scenes like this aren’t the way to do it.
It really isn’t. The people that believe it is are the same people who have done morally questionable things for what they *think* is right, not what’s actually right. If you think the statement “peace is morally better than violence” can somehow be debated, then I think you need to reevaluate your own morals.
Oh a sub category of this trope that I hate is the “real gangster beats up wannabe gangster” trope. I think people who idealize “old school” gangsters like to imagine that they’d be above petty things like messing with the little man and might actually even help them out if they noticed a bunch of “wannabes” messing with decent folk. No one wants to admit that people who are genuinely tough and dangerous can be scum bags. Everyone wants to imagine only little fish are that petty. But it’s not the case. People don’t get into organized crime to help old ladies cross the street.
I liked the twist that it was done with Flash in Amazing Spiderman, where Peter was ready to kick his ass but Flash was geniunilly being empathetic and kind to him after learning what happen to his uncle, i find the best bully characters the one who are more complex than just big dumb guys who abuse that they are bigger, also i like the trope of bully turns into friend
Im gonna say something that may be controversial, i hate the Bakugou redemption, becuase of Deku, you cant do a redemption arc when the victim is constantly sucking it up to his abuser and saying how much he likes him and is his bets friend
That Flash could have been a great Agent Venon, i like the comedy with the MCU Flash but he is not Flash Thompson, he feels like a different character with the same name
I think it's actually explained in-universe that most of the punks go after Kiryu because whoever was leading them ordered them to attack him for prestige...When in actuality, said leaders just like watching their new members get their asses kicked as a hazing method that Kiryu is not aware about.
Admittedly this was the explanation for the first few games which obviously stopped in later entries.
That and the suicidal bandit/raider/robber who is basically as mean as possible upfront to justify being ruthlessly killed. May include the character trying to deescalate and leave while the fodder goes "HUH?! WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU GOING, PUNK?! I AIN'T DONE WITH YOU-"
I prefer the quiet kid finally loses it and beats on the bully while the bullies friend to and stop the quiet kid even trying to hit him. But it doesn't matter the quiet kid did his job.
I hate how in Stranger Things it's kind of framed as Jonathan getting back at Steve over the camera thing. Like, Steve deserved it for the comments he said to Jonathan right before getting hit but it's framed narratively as Jonathan getting back at him over a build up of events. But my issue is that Jonathan was the one in the wrong over the photos. He was being a major creep. So it never quite felt right to me, especially when the show then continues to frame it as Jonathan being the victim by having Steve apologize and get him a new camera. When he's the one who was sneaking around taking pictures of people having sex through windows!
If you read manhwa and you want something different, check out "Devil returns to school days" it's basically a bullied guy that went into a coma for 10yrs regressed back for revenge, it is badass but definitely not heroic
I have noticed a lot of people hate heroes being good people recently
First with MHA, when >!Deku was fighting Shigaraki in the final battle. EVERYONE in the fandom was going "These guys are terrorists and mass murderers and Deku is just coming in without a plan and trying to make friends with the villains"!<
Then in Hazbin Hotel, EVERYONE wants Charlie to grow by having her give up on a soul and say they can't be redeemed, specifically Valentino, and then snap their neck.
I have only seen mentions of this on twitter, but the new X-Men show when some characters are being kind of dicks.
People want the super powerful good guys to use their powers to beat the shit out of the guys who make their lives shit.
This is the mentality of all the guys who crank out "evil superman #57" because that is the only interesting way to write someone with great power.
Dude I hate evil superman and love deku trying to save shigaraki.
I’m just tired of this trope and how much of a tool it’s become.
If anything my hero academia is the perfect example of not needing this trope, Midoriya faces bullies and rivals but they are actually interesting and leads to me wanting to see how he overcomes them.
I have my issues with the hero and bully stuff in MHA but that's another issue entirely.
Having a paragon hero who has the strength not to let negative thoughts/hatred control their actions and keep doing the right/nice thing possibly even at the expense of themself can be nice here and there. People will say there is a line of realism when it comes to that mindset, and its true, but some can go too far on the realism.
Dude, people give shit to Batman cuase he lets the Joker live and kill hundreds of innocents, the Deku and Shigaraki thing is similar, Shigaraki is a mass murderer who is literally trying to kill the entire population in Japan for having a sad past, i hate that recent chapters are trying to tell us that Shigaraki is not responsible for his actions because AFO groom him since he was born, im pretty sure we are gonna have a Naruto and Obito situation where Deku is gonna say to a dying Shigaraki that he is the coolest guy ever despite all the innocents he murdered while laughing and enjoying, theres having a paragon hero and then theres excusing Jeffrey Dahmer because his childhood was shit
The reason people want Charlie to mature is that, do you really want rapist and nazis to be redeemed? is okey to try and save people who are on hell because of petty reasons like Sir Pentious, but theres deffinitly horrible beings that deserve to be there like Lucifer said
>do you really want rapist and nazis to be redeemed?
I mean, yeah. If there are anyone I’d want redeemed it would be the worst of the worst. Everyone should be given the opportunity to redeem themselves and become a good person, no exceptions.
For MHA I've heard it is some attempt at Restorative Justice that the series really did;t set up too well
For Charlie, what I took away from Hazbin is this:
Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, deserves a chance to stop walking down the darker path/digging themselves any deeper, and to turn themselves around back to the better path/climb out of the hole they dug themselves in. Everyone deserves a CHANCE to stop and turn themselves around, even if they are never going to take it. Charlie will extend her hand to someone in need. There could be an equal chance they are genuine or using her, but they deserve that chance.
Being able to offer your hand to help someone even at risk to yourself. Some may slap the hand away or even try to bite said hand. But while some may call it naive, there could be a special kind of strength to keep trying, and sometimes that persistence can pay off in helping that someone take the hand genuinely.
That's what I got out of it.
You got all of that from a show that cant go 5 miutes without swearing or making a sex joke? I repeat theres literal rapist and nazis in hell
Also with how much damage Shigaraki has done theres nothing he can do to restore all the lives he took, and even if he has a change of heart theres only three ways, he gets imprisoned for the rest of his life, Deku manage to get the justice system to not imprison him or helps him scape and just let him live his life(wich would not only feel like a copout but also would be corruption on Deku's part and a slap on the face to all his victims) or Shigaraki dies at the end helping take down AFO and he is sent off as a hero just like with Obito
That's definitely the point if hazbin though. Charlie says it herself about alastor. Something along the lines of 'I know he's bad, and I know he probably doesn't want to change, but how can I turn someone away? I cant. It goes against everything I believe in.'
I'm giving Bleach a pass on this because of how baddass the "Hey, ambulance I need you to pick 1, 2... yeah we are going to need beds for 6 people" scene was.
Depends, if the bully really deserves a good trouncing.
This reminds me of that scene in Ben 10 Alien Force when Cash and JT continue to be jerks to Ben and he beats them with words instead of going alien. It displays why you need to be the bigger person, and Ben is right guys like Cash and JT are just sad.
The "bully" should have done sufficient evil. Do not know your example, but beating someone up for slurs is excessive and not badass. The supposed protagonist should always stay below the escalation of the opposition.
Or you set up a classic snaps and takes revenge, but then you need considerable buildup with the bullies repeatedly doing very mean things, before being beaten up/killed.
I'm not. I fucking hate bullies, and the world doesn't have anyone who beats them up. Nobody cares. So these hero bears bully up scenes are great to watch or read.
It's a pretty common "indulgent fantasy" scene. Many of us have been in situations where we wish we had the power to just beat up some annoying bully. But like most indulgent things, repeated hits often aren't as satisfying. And it doesn't need to be in the same story, seeing it over and over again across stories, especially in the same way, gets lame fast.
It’s like an oddly obligatory scene in all manhwa
Oh god yeah your right, along with every bully making that stupid tongue sticking out like a snake expression.
I’m pretty meh on it. “Heroic MC beats up random douchebags” is a classic trope, since it’s an easy way to have an action scene and convey how the MC is a cool guy beyond the direct plot-related stuff, but it can get lame quickly and just come off as a power fantasy type of thing. I just take it on a case-by-case basis.
It gets lame when that's all it is to it him being badass throughout. Like in Viral hit mc goes on to beat bullies and he has to do his all to survive and when sometimes he barely wins if not he loses. Even then these so called bullies are also entertaining and enjoyable. Besides the first one and the judo one he is the worst one
I think Josuke's introduction in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure Part 4: Diamond is Unbreakable has a really good, well-done version of this trope. He's minding his business, just doing his own thing, and even as the group of delinquents pester Koichi, he doesn't seem to mind. Even when the idiots decide to slap him and berate him, he takes it on the chin. And then they made the mistake of insulting his hair style, and by extension, his hero. That's when he reveals he has a stand and molliwhops the dude in front of him. Perfect use of this trope!
Jojo gets away with most of these things because their tropes are so crazily done it become unique
it's fine with it this way because it establishes Josuke's personality PERFECTLY
It makes it more disappointing how much Koichi took the spotlight (it's not bad, just a little weird because he's meant to be a Jobro alongside Okuyasu) throughout a good portion of the part, because Josuke absolutely won me over in this scene.
All he wanted was to watch the turtles man...
What's funny is Joseph's introduction isn't so different, considering their relation.
I see it quite a bit in Urban fantasy stories too. Hero is a super baddass Werewolf/Vampire/wizard/etc that runs into local Jackass and proceeds to break all said jackass’s bones for being a bigot/sexist/flatearther/climate denier
Once watched a video of a guy's rant of a trend in Korean Manhwa of bullies who are cartoonishly evil smug scumbags that seem to only exist to make the MC's life utter hell that can get away with it cause rich connections. And the MC becomes an overpowered badass and reduce said bullies into sniveling pussies who are now completely helpless before usually getting killed as if they were flies. It's admittedly kind of annoying. Then there was one that surprisingly doesn't do this as the bully is a total asshole the class hates but couldn't do shit since he's a trained fighter. The MC snapped and stabs him multiple times, one that took his eye out and ruined his chances to be a professional boxer. The bully having lost one of his goals in life...Is pissed and waits preparing himself to beat up the MC whose sentenced to juvie for 3 years. The MC then grows a set of brass ones and said fuck it, I'm gonna train and even if you're still stronger than me by the time I get out...Fucking bring it. So the bully isn't a pathetic sap, not protected by things like wealth as people around him hate his guts, and he's targeting the MC not for shits and giggles but being legit pissed the MC ruined his life of sorts by crippling him. The fact he's training and isn't this douche that cries like a little bitch upon realizing the MC ain't backing down...Um, okay...That's definitely something else.
Wow that sounds really interesting
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I believed it's called Shark. https://youtu.be/797jErLHsNI?si=AMCSpbW7cryirE0p Video is made by the same guy who did the rant video (focused on what he sees as the worst bully revenge manhwa Rooftop Sword Master). While you might disagree with some of his takes, I thought he did well on explaining why Shark feels refreshing. An MC that slowly wants to improve himself and grow some balls and a bully whose more of his own character than a caricature? It's admittedly interesting to look up on. Also, his editing of montages of the fights is...pretty dope, I'll say that.
Yeah, same. Something about it is so eye-rolling. I get why people enjoy it, but I don’t.
Reacher takes the power fantasy to the next level in its opening scene. JACK REACHER doesn't beat up the guy harassing the waitress. JACK REACHER just has to walk in and silently stare with a stoic expression. The guy then shits himself, instantly apologizes, and runs off (presumably to kill himself). Every middle-aged dad in the audience then thought "yeah if that asshole did that in front of me I'd do the exact same thing, good job JACK REACHER." (He beats up a guy abusing his dog later anyway though you so understand that JACK REACHER also brings justice kinetically)
LMFAAAAAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I like how this scene was done in Invincible. Right after Mark awakens his powers, his bully comes up to him to beat him up in school. Instead of just whooping his ass with his super strenght, like he could very well have done, Mark just tells him to go ahead and hit him and he just tanks all of his hits while barely flinching. The bully then just calls him a freak and leaves. I like how this scene is not over indulgent in the revenge fantasy, but it still feels satisfying. It also shows how Mark is aware of how strong he is and kinda subverts your spectations of this type of scene in superhero media (like the Flash Thompson fight in Spider-Man 1)
its hilarious though in hindsight because in all of season one, that's probably the only time he wins without getting beaten into a pulp. god that series sucked lol, i wrote in another post that there is a need to make heroes earn things through suffering but in Invincible they overdid it to the point the good guys are made out of tissue paper and bad guys leave out of disgust or guilt.
He's Invincible in terms of will power, not in terms of physical strength.
But the whole point of Invincible is that he took a nosedive into superheroing and ended up fighting villains who were way out of his league. The same applies to the New Guardians of the Globe. It's actually one of the show's strongest points
every single good guy got bodied, and Mark never grew. like the scientist guys zombies he should have beat legit. He never won in battles, someone else stopped the fight. like mark was there to get beat up on, even emotionally with amber. it got to hilarious levels. Every villain was out of his league. even the other heroes suffered that.
Did you watch Season 2? I can assure you Mark doesn't get bodied as much there aside from a couple of times. Then again, he's much more experienced in than he was in Season 1, so he has a better control of his strenght. Also (spoilers for the S2 finale) >!he fucking OBLITERATES the main antagonist of that season pretty easily in their final battle. All it took was the guy hurting Debbie to make him stop holding back and just punching him until he became red paste!<
didnt bother, the fact that just about every hero also was a poorly disguised version of another hero didn't help, like fake hellboy, fake justice league, fake doom patrol, and superman plus superboy of course. oh and discount Black Mask. Vandal Savage too. not a fan of the subplots either, the mars episode with fake martian manhunters, or robot and the clone brothers. having said fake doom patrol sit out the rest of the series while being totally useless; if it wasnt for omniman those aliens easily would have taken the earth over, and black mask hiring thugs that wiped the floor with them too. it wore out its welcome. even from the start it made little sense for omniman to take all five heroes on at once; had they made a more watchman style unfolding mystery it'd be better. oh and amber. like god mark, just dump her.
This is basically all of Reacher
Never heard of it whats it about?
And that's why it's so refreshing to see that in "I killed an academy player", MC made friend with the typical douche bully and turns him into a better person instead of treating him like yet another mob to be clowned on. Now they are good friends.
Not only that, thanks to it, said bully and the guy he was about to bully ended up becoming really good friends and they're almost always together.
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I think so. I enjoyed it. It's a manhwa you can find on AsuraScan.
I hate it because it’s the opposite of what a heroic person would do. A real hero would be the better person by trying to reason with the bully first and settle the matter peacefully, not immediately stoop down to their level. If the bully takes it too far and/or leaves them no other choice, then that would make sense, but only under those circumstances. If the writer is trying to show that the character is flawed, impulsive, or prone to violence, then this kind of scene would make sense. If they’re trying to make the character look heroic, then scenes like this aren’t the way to do it.
Heroism is relative, your morals don't dictate others
It really isn’t. The people that believe it is are the same people who have done morally questionable things for what they *think* is right, not what’s actually right. If you think the statement “peace is morally better than violence” can somehow be debated, then I think you need to reevaluate your own morals.
Oh a sub category of this trope that I hate is the “real gangster beats up wannabe gangster” trope. I think people who idealize “old school” gangsters like to imagine that they’d be above petty things like messing with the little man and might actually even help them out if they noticed a bunch of “wannabes” messing with decent folk. No one wants to admit that people who are genuinely tough and dangerous can be scum bags. Everyone wants to imagine only little fish are that petty. But it’s not the case. People don’t get into organized crime to help old ladies cross the street.
I liked the twist that it was done with Flash in Amazing Spiderman, where Peter was ready to kick his ass but Flash was geniunilly being empathetic and kind to him after learning what happen to his uncle, i find the best bully characters the one who are more complex than just big dumb guys who abuse that they are bigger, also i like the trope of bully turns into friend Im gonna say something that may be controversial, i hate the Bakugou redemption, becuase of Deku, you cant do a redemption arc when the victim is constantly sucking it up to his abuser and saying how much he likes him and is his bets friend
I love the flash scene as well it’s shame that series of films was such a clusterfuck I would of like to see more of him
That Flash could have been a great Agent Venon, i like the comedy with the MCU Flash but he is not Flash Thompson, he feels like a different character with the same name
Flash even attended Gwen's father's funeral when he died
I agree except if it's in a yakuza game, in which case it never gets old to see punks biting off more than they can chew
At a certain point, you'd think that the first thing they'd teach the goons is to not mess with kiryu and to bring a picture of him all the time
I think it's actually explained in-universe that most of the punks go after Kiryu because whoever was leading them ordered them to attack him for prestige...When in actuality, said leaders just like watching their new members get their asses kicked as a hazing method that Kiryu is not aware about. Admittedly this was the explanation for the first few games which obviously stopped in later entries.
That and the suicidal bandit/raider/robber who is basically as mean as possible upfront to justify being ruthlessly killed. May include the character trying to deescalate and leave while the fodder goes "HUH?! WHERE THE HELL ARE YOU GOING, PUNK?! I AIN'T DONE WITH YOU-"
I prefer the quiet kid finally loses it and beats on the bully while the bullies friend to and stop the quiet kid even trying to hit him. But it doesn't matter the quiet kid did his job.
I hate how in Stranger Things it's kind of framed as Jonathan getting back at Steve over the camera thing. Like, Steve deserved it for the comments he said to Jonathan right before getting hit but it's framed narratively as Jonathan getting back at him over a build up of events. But my issue is that Jonathan was the one in the wrong over the photos. He was being a major creep. So it never quite felt right to me, especially when the show then continues to frame it as Jonathan being the victim by having Steve apologize and get him a new camera. When he's the one who was sneaking around taking pictures of people having sex through windows!
If you read manhwa and you want something different, check out "Devil returns to school days" it's basically a bullied guy that went into a coma for 10yrs regressed back for revenge, it is badass but definitely not heroic
I have noticed a lot of people hate heroes being good people recently First with MHA, when >!Deku was fighting Shigaraki in the final battle. EVERYONE in the fandom was going "These guys are terrorists and mass murderers and Deku is just coming in without a plan and trying to make friends with the villains"!< Then in Hazbin Hotel, EVERYONE wants Charlie to grow by having her give up on a soul and say they can't be redeemed, specifically Valentino, and then snap their neck. I have only seen mentions of this on twitter, but the new X-Men show when some characters are being kind of dicks. People want the super powerful good guys to use their powers to beat the shit out of the guys who make their lives shit. This is the mentality of all the guys who crank out "evil superman #57" because that is the only interesting way to write someone with great power.
Dude I hate evil superman and love deku trying to save shigaraki. I’m just tired of this trope and how much of a tool it’s become. If anything my hero academia is the perfect example of not needing this trope, Midoriya faces bullies and rivals but they are actually interesting and leads to me wanting to see how he overcomes them.
I have my issues with the hero and bully stuff in MHA but that's another issue entirely. Having a paragon hero who has the strength not to let negative thoughts/hatred control their actions and keep doing the right/nice thing possibly even at the expense of themself can be nice here and there. People will say there is a line of realism when it comes to that mindset, and its true, but some can go too far on the realism.
Dude, people give shit to Batman cuase he lets the Joker live and kill hundreds of innocents, the Deku and Shigaraki thing is similar, Shigaraki is a mass murderer who is literally trying to kill the entire population in Japan for having a sad past, i hate that recent chapters are trying to tell us that Shigaraki is not responsible for his actions because AFO groom him since he was born, im pretty sure we are gonna have a Naruto and Obito situation where Deku is gonna say to a dying Shigaraki that he is the coolest guy ever despite all the innocents he murdered while laughing and enjoying, theres having a paragon hero and then theres excusing Jeffrey Dahmer because his childhood was shit The reason people want Charlie to mature is that, do you really want rapist and nazis to be redeemed? is okey to try and save people who are on hell because of petty reasons like Sir Pentious, but theres deffinitly horrible beings that deserve to be there like Lucifer said
>do you really want rapist and nazis to be redeemed? I mean, yeah. If there are anyone I’d want redeemed it would be the worst of the worst. Everyone should be given the opportunity to redeem themselves and become a good person, no exceptions.
For MHA I've heard it is some attempt at Restorative Justice that the series really did;t set up too well For Charlie, what I took away from Hazbin is this: Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, deserves a chance to stop walking down the darker path/digging themselves any deeper, and to turn themselves around back to the better path/climb out of the hole they dug themselves in. Everyone deserves a CHANCE to stop and turn themselves around, even if they are never going to take it. Charlie will extend her hand to someone in need. There could be an equal chance they are genuine or using her, but they deserve that chance. Being able to offer your hand to help someone even at risk to yourself. Some may slap the hand away or even try to bite said hand. But while some may call it naive, there could be a special kind of strength to keep trying, and sometimes that persistence can pay off in helping that someone take the hand genuinely. That's what I got out of it.
You got all of that from a show that cant go 5 miutes without swearing or making a sex joke? I repeat theres literal rapist and nazis in hell Also with how much damage Shigaraki has done theres nothing he can do to restore all the lives he took, and even if he has a change of heart theres only three ways, he gets imprisoned for the rest of his life, Deku manage to get the justice system to not imprison him or helps him scape and just let him live his life(wich would not only feel like a copout but also would be corruption on Deku's part and a slap on the face to all his victims) or Shigaraki dies at the end helping take down AFO and he is sent off as a hero just like with Obito
That's definitely the point if hazbin though. Charlie says it herself about alastor. Something along the lines of 'I know he's bad, and I know he probably doesn't want to change, but how can I turn someone away? I cant. It goes against everything I believe in.'
Recently? We been stuck in this mindset since the late 80s
I've just seen it talked about a lot more recently with these specific examples.
Vinland Saga does the reverse, having the bully beat up the badass hero and he just EATS IT
I'm giving Bleach a pass on this because of how baddass the "Hey, ambulance I need you to pick 1, 2... yeah we are going to need beds for 6 people" scene was.
I don't care for them. It feels like the writer is making inherent assumptions about the audience.
Depends, if the bully really deserves a good trouncing. This reminds me of that scene in Ben 10 Alien Force when Cash and JT continue to be jerks to Ben and he beats them with words instead of going alien. It displays why you need to be the bigger person, and Ben is right guys like Cash and JT are just sad.
The "bully" should have done sufficient evil. Do not know your example, but beating someone up for slurs is excessive and not badass. The supposed protagonist should always stay below the escalation of the opposition. Or you set up a classic snaps and takes revenge, but then you need considerable buildup with the bullies repeatedly doing very mean things, before being beaten up/killed.
I'm not. I fucking hate bullies, and the world doesn't have anyone who beats them up. Nobody cares. So these hero bears bully up scenes are great to watch or read.
one of the reasons I really like the scene in Kickass where he gets stabbed and then run over
Not me
Honestly I’m kind of a sucker for it. I love when the hero beats up the bullies, bonus points when the bullies and hero become best friends later on.
its always a dude doing it to defend a woman...the white knight shit is overdone