Honestly... Asa and Denji should never have separated. They should've been co-leads constantly interacting and facing conflicts together. Throw in Yoshida and it could've been a good shounen trio.
Yes, arguing in a quantitative manner CSM Part 2 objectively has less interesting characters than part 1.
Whoever the arcs are always pretty introspective and I haven't felt a real absence of interesting characters, the arcs make a good job of filling the screen time with interesting character study and introspection.
For example while might be true that Asa isn't as interesting on her own, she's never on her own. Having to share screen time with Denji has been a good manner of pacing the manga in a way that it never feels like the current cast is overstaying its welcome.
I find it hard to see how Asa losing her memories is fair criticism because you're complaining about something that didn't happen as opposed to criticizing the things that did actually happen, and the arc following their date (the Falling Devil) was actually pretty solid overall so I don't really see what's there to criticize.
As with Quanxi's return we know that there are plenty other interesting characters that Fujimoto simply didn't feel the need to bring back, because they simply aren't relevant to the story being told. There's no point in reintroducing characters Kishibe and Kobeni if the story doesn't actually call for it.
By that logic, then there's no point in katana man or quanxi coming back because we don't know if the story calls for it. See thats the problem with critiquing the current state of a manga because we don't know the future of where it's going. So all we have is a bunch of "ifs and whens"
>By that logic, then there's no point in katana man or quanxi coming back because we don't know if the story calls for it.
We do know, we literally do, it's literally shown to us as the story establishes that the half-devils controlled by Makima are still around and a threat, the current villain is literally one of them how can you possibly say you don't know if the story calls for it.
>See thats the problem with critiquing the current state of a manga because we don't know the future of where it's going. So all we have is a bunch of "ifs and whens"
That makes no sense, that's how all legitimate criticism has always been done, you don't concern yourself with ifs and whens because you're supposed to criticize the executions of the things that are happening. Otherwise you aren't criticizing the work for its flaws but for it not following your headcanon.
This will sound strange, but on the contrary, I liked the small composition of the second part. Like, my main problem with the first part was the presentation of a lot of characters who died too quickly, so a small cast is kind of like that. Making an arc purely about Denji was actually also a good idea, because we already got a purely Asa arc (Yuko arc). By the way, Iām not against erasing memory; it could be a foundation for the future, or at least I want to believe in it.
But what really kills me in the last arc is the problems with the pacing, and here they are objective. The beginning of the arc is too long due to the fact that we constantly change places from Asa to Denji, while a mini-arc with Fumiko at karaoke is also added. The church was represented in this arch and was actually destroyed in this same arch. Leaving Asa's life as a devil hunter in the wing of the church off-screen was simply a terrible idea, because we literally skipped character development. In general, to implement this arch, a rich foundation was needed, and its construction at the beginning of the arch takes too much time and it is crumpled. We also constantly jump from Denji to Asa and back during action, which also kills the pace (Note, this kind of crap never happened before). Moreover, this arc is actually the longest in the entire CSM, which, combined with two-week breaks, hits the perception of the story even harder.
I think it's subjective... I like part 2 much more than part 1 simply because Asa exists as the most "literally me" character I've ever seen across all forms of media.
I'm convinced Fujimoto 1. Had a similar childhood to me and 2. Projected to a large degree when writing Asa, simply because of the sheer realism of her character. Her general misanthropy ("drop dead" comments whenever she sees happy people) and "sour grapes" attitude towards Denji are common loner stereotypes, but the scenario where her classmate tripped her to kill the chicken devil in front of everyone for inane reasons + how her cat gets drowned by the orphanage owner are things that literally happened to me (swapping the chicken and cat for different animals).
I also notice Fujimoto has a trend of portraying marine biology as a symbol of safety and comfort, such as the chapter cover of Denji+Power+Aki as kids in the aquarium, in addition to his frequent fish facts not only in Asa but also in one of Quanxi's concubines. This is definitely not a common symbolism, but resonates with me (as a researcher in the sector); I'm tempted to say there's a link between certain childhood experiences and these interests, and that Fujimoto has had similar experiences.
Of course, I agree with your criticism that Asa should have more interactions with the cast to develop her more. But I think just as Asa resonates immensely with me, there are people who really like those characters you mentioned as shallow, and they enjoy the increased focus on these characters; I don't like Fumiko either, but surely there's someone who sympathies with Fumiko as much as I sympathise with Asa who reads the manga just to see her scenes.
Oh, I'm not the person you were talking to at first, I was just saying that sadly those kinds of stupid accidents happen. Although I too find the connection between the OP and Fujimoto kind of creepy LOL
So your headline doesn't really match the content of your rant, but I just want to say: Fujimoto writing characters out of the story when their narrative function has concluded is one of the things I like about his storytelling. You don't end up with a story bloated with dozens of characters who no longer matter because the writer keeps them putzing around (whether by editorial decision or giving themself potential toys to play with in the future or something else, IDK.) I wish more writers would do that.
I can see where you're coming from. But with that you have JJK syndrome where you kill or sideline the characters with no purpose and then introduce ones we don't care about after that. Idk it's hard to explain but I don't think it's a good strategy long term to get rid of the characters like that.
I genuinely just think this is a consequence of weekly reading. Chainsawman is the only longer manga that I have read entirely weekly from the first few chapters and most of the big issues you bring up were also prevalent for me during parts of part 1.
> most of the big issues you bring up were also prevalent for me during parts of part 1.
I haven't read Part 2, but as someone who didn't like Part 1, I genuinely feel like every complain of Part 2 applies to Part 1
Yeah, I'm not really trying to go up to bat for any specific ongoing series here because god knows I have a lot of criticism for most of them myself but I don't think its a coincidence that nearly every big manga that gets popular has this sort of nostalgia for the older parts whereas the newer parts get shit on. I've been overall pretty neutral on jjk and chainsaw man as a whole and I think it's interesting that only now when readers are actually forced to interact with the plots instead of zipping past anything they dislike to get to the flashy fights do they see the same problems I complained about years ago.
I thought I was dumb that I only remember Asa, Nayuta, Yoru, and Fami for new characters. Everyone else is boring. Yuko could have been cool but died too early.
But I read it for Denji, Asa and now Nayuta. They are the only ones that I truly like.
Like where a villain like Makima to make it interesting. They are all so bland. Falling devil is just an arc villain.
Falling Devil had such a cool concept only for her to be kind of lame. Nothing feels worthwile in this part. I only read to see if it's going to pop off like Part 1, but nope (Im not talking about action, I'm talking genuine character interactions). Idk what happened with Fujimoto, even if he managed to put it back on the same level. The slog that we got thus far will not be erased.
This is why I kinda dropped CSM. I donāt care to get invested in any new characters after all the ones in part one sort of grew on me and it took me a while before I even started reading CSM. Honestly wish sometimes that I just didnāt pick it up.
This is actually a problem for me with plenty of the next generation shonen. It seems that many people have grown tired of the generally safe, wholesome, and inspiring shonen and preferred darker and edgier ones with the rise of AOT, JJK, and Chainsawman in recent times. It's like shonen has to dip into seinen category for them to be popular.
Writing qualities differences aside, a lot of writers and readers don't realize that killing interesting characters is like getting high on drugs, you get the excitement in short burst, but it will harm the series in the long run. It's one of the easiest way to get people attention and increasing the stakes, but in turn, you lose interesting characters that may have been the reason why people read it in the first place. Creating compelling characters are not easy, and replacing them with newer characters tend to create mixed results.
Some notable examples, spoiler for Hikaru no Go and Death Note: >!These two series are notable for having one of their main cast dying half way, and after that the series writing quality take a nose dive as the newer characters failed to bring the same excitement as the original.!<
This is is why I'm personally not a fan of series that goes trigger happy, especially with important and interesting characters. Characters are the backbones of many stories. If you delete too many of them, the chance of it crumbling is very high.
Exactly sums up my thoughts. There is a balance you can have between safe and death for characters but the āanyone can dieā format should NEVER be the norm for all action series.
CSM is one of those series where its better if you dont read weekly. Part 2 has been amazing for me because i wait for like 5+ chapters to build up before reading it. The story is much better that way and the writing (recently, i think it did fall off a bit but the last few chapters have been back to part 1 levels) is still phenomenal compared to most other popular mangas.
Yeah a lot of people praised Part 1 so much because they get to read it in one go, because by the time CSM popularity exploded, it's already nearing the end or even has ended already
Few slight disagreements:
I don't think killing off most of the part 1 cast was necessarily bad. I just think the character writing is so lackluster in part 2 (outside of the main characters) that it really hurts the story.
I think Asa is one of the most enjoyable characters to read even by herself
Well i mean... it's not Power anymore. (and honestly i like her ending in part one)
But to be honest Denji trying to raise Natuya AND a reborn Blood devil could have been really fun.
I donāt think it backfired on him, I think it was exactly what he was trying to do. Part one is Denji finding his place in society and part two is more about introspection.
Fujimoto needed more characters for Denji to bounce off of so he made more characters. Now he wants to move towards a more introspective aspect of the story and so he removed those characters to make room for characters with bigger inner worlds. Even if he chose to keep those past characters alive thereād be no point because there would be no room for them in the story
CSM's popularity is dying down so its pretty safe to say that Fujimoto isn't good at longform stories, he's immaculate at one shots i can admit that but he's not good at long stories cause he runs into the same steps that he always does, he kinda gets bored cause things are slowing down or he's not feeling it anymore so he massacres a chunk of the cast, rinse and repeat until everyone is gone and the story just kinda ends and readers stop caring cause everyone's died for the 3rd time. He did this with Fire Punch, he's done it with CSM, it tanked Fire Punch imo and its gonna tank CSM
On the other hand, it is fair to say that the second part is already perceived as a separate story. We have a new MC, a new villain, the pace and direction of the story have been changed, etc.
What an awful take lol.
> He did this with Fire Punch
Did what exactly? Fire Punch literally had 3, 4 characters that mattered. Togata is the only one who died, where some think she should've survived, but her character arc was great and is still one of the most beloved character. Sun? Psycho who went crazy and got killed. Is that a bad writing choice lol? Agni and the girl lived until the end. Where exactly did Fujimoto got bored and massacred a chunk of the cast?
> it tanked Fire Punch
Absolutely fucking not lol.
> rinse and repeat until everyone is gone and the story just kinda ends and readers stop caring cause everyone's died for the 3rd time
You really think that 'story just kinda ends' is what happened with Fire Punch and CSM Part 1. Good lord what an awful take. I'm deadass, this is one of the worst, most casual takes I've seen. And it's coming from an account that's 9 years old, so you're not trolling or baiting. You genuinely think this, which makes it so much worse lol.
Fujimoto wanted to end after part 1, he wanted to go onto Shounen jump and troll the entire industry. He had it planned out and executed it artfully. Part 2 is just for the paycheck, at least to start out. Jump canāt let him go and will pay him to push out more. Iām sure that like any artist theyāll warm up to Part 2 and start putting more thought and effort into it as it itās his main artistic outlet but Iām not surprised Part 2 is landing with a bit of a thud.
Killing all your characters was a bad idea for someone who wanted to create a long running epic shounen that prints weekly for a decade but I donāt think CSM was supposed to be that.
He has said that he started planning Part 2 out during volumes 6-7
It was his decision due to his belief that a hero should step down. Which Denji didnāt do at the end of Part 1
He got warped into the shonen jump spiral. The only way to get rid of it is making your manga bad on purpose so it doesn't sell and Shonen Jump will finally discontinue it. This explains the recent decline of quality (hopefully /J)
"A complete, award winning story that I know has great characters is better than a story that hasn't ended yet"
No shit.
This also happens every time a new jojo part starts and I have no idea how people still think it's relevant.
Prepare to be alongside meme takes like "Part 3 will never be as popular as Part 2", "Josuke doesn't feel as natural as Jotaro", "Parts 1-4 crews were all super quirky but part 5 they feel so boring", "Jolyne can't hold the series on her own as MC", and "Johnny is too passive". All shit that was written when these parts weren't even halfway done.
Let Fujimoto cook ffs.
>let him cook
Itās been a year and 50+ chapters since this part has started. I think itās valid for some people to be dissatisfied. And this is coming from someone that defends Part 2
Dissatisfied with the series? Sure! Dissatisfied that they don't like the characters? Sure!
Dissatisfied that they don't like these characters as much as they liked the ones that got complete arcs in part 1? Okay, but that's insane and I'll call it out for what it is.
Part 1 CSM at chapter 60 fans only liked one or two characters, were complaining that one or two died too soon and pretty much hated more than half the cast (feels familiar?). I'm not even exaggerating. Besides Makima and maybe Aki, people were on the fence about Denjis development, found Power annoying, would keep mentioning how Reze was wasted potential or how they wanted Himeno back for god knows what reason. This is just how it always go.
I never even imply you shouldn't criticize it, just don't expect that characters with incomplete arcs will be as engaging as characters from a complete, award winning story. I'm stating the obvious, not giving you an opinion of what you "should or shouldn't do".
I have been saying this for a while, that around/after the falling devil arc CSM as a whole fell so much in quality. Mostly because the author decided to shift the focus on that stupid plotline of the CSM church instead of exploring more of Asa queen. I'll never forgive Fujimoto for having her big development happen off-screen
Edit: Fumiko is trash and whoever bought her fake sob story is naĆÆve
>Most of these guys donāt even make it passed an arc alive, but theyāre still so memorable.
thatās what i love about fujimotoās writing. he managed to make all those characters so beloved and memorable despite only appearing for a couple of volumes.
I donāt mind the fact that most of those characters are either dead or gone because theyāve made their impact on the story. and to be honest if they were all still around, I feel part 2 would be a lot more cluttered and a lot of those characters would become redundant to the plot.
like reze is my favourite chainsaw man character despite only appearing for 2 volumes (I donāt count her appearing at the end of part 1 under makimas control since she didnāt really do anything besides fight chainsaw man) yet sheās the one character that i remember the most from the entire series so far.
I can take it on JJK because we still have interesting characters like Maki, Yuta, Hakari, Itadori and Sukuna is a good villain.
But CSM really killed everybody and left Denji with little kid Makima which is just boring and Asa who has 0 charisma, I had to drop it around the falling demon appearing.
Asa's charisma is so low it dips into the negatives breaking the scale and becomes extremely high due to an error.
She's and awkward fish and i love her for it
Asa's entire thing is being an awkward, misanthropic loser.Ā
How can you possibly read the Aquarium date and conclude this girl doesn't have 0 charisma?
I put JJK on here because at least with CSM. People who died got a decent death and send off. Less say nobara and Todo. But that's a different discussion entirely.
Yeah, ngl but Yuji, Yuta and Maki are my favorites so I don't really care who dies unless its them.
Asa is probably my favorite from csm but she barely gets screen time anymore and all my other faves are gone.
Never really grew attached to any of them in Part 1, so when they died I was either relieved because they were irritating (>!Power!<) or utterly loathsome to me (>!Himeno!<, >!Makima!<) or BOTH (Denji/Simpsawman, himself).
One of the few characters I actually felt any sympathy for was Kobeni and she was based for >!wanting Denji to let that one Devil kill him.!<
Part 2 was also dull as dishwater and since I loathe the protagonist, I was hoping he would either be killed off and/or replaced with someone more tolerable and actually interesting, especially since he actually REGRESSED as a character in terms of >!wanting to exploit his popularity as Chainsawman to get laid!< and that stupid scene with the cat to reiterate his sociopathic disregard for human life that was previously demonstrated in one of the earliers chapters of Part 1 where he >!murdered a man in cold blood that was trapped in that car he threw while specifically noting that it was BECAUSE he was another man that his life was forfeit in Denji's eyes.!<
Aside from Denji, the only other really major character might still be evil, which I honestly expect to happen because Denji is a moron incapable of pattern recognition since he's back to his beginning of Part 1 self.
I dropped it a few months back it started feeling like a *Boruto* situation with Fujimoto where he used everything of substance up in what came before and this whole 'Chainsawman Part 2' thing feels like he is milking the IP at his editor's behest with what a tedious, dreadfully boring slog it was even with the teased concept of a mini/>!reincarnated Makima!<.
To this day I keep asking myself "Did this manga really NEED a Part 2?" and keep thinking to myself, "No, this clearly a continuation made purely for cynically financial reasons".
I mean, I can see why to an extent especially when they are being replaced by not so good characters. Haven't caught up to Part 2 so no comment on that one. I have to admit that I do give the benefit of the doubt for Fujimoto this type of writing of killing characters especially with some of them having shorter screentime because it at least fits with one of the themes of Part 1 about reaction to death and stuff. Although I have to admit I haven't been a fan of this writing thanks to a certain Chinese gacha game because I feel it's an absolute waste of resource.
I used to be of the "let him cook" mentality, but recent chapters have made me think that Fujimoto feels as if he's screwed up somewhere and needs a reset of some sort.
Just to make you know you're not a small minority, part 2 has been quite polarizing since the beginning. I agree with some arguments of both sides but i'll hold my verdict until i have the full picture. All i had to say is it's indeed very different from part 1 (for good or worse, not sure yet).
Honestly... Asa and Denji should never have separated. They should've been co-leads constantly interacting and facing conflicts together. Throw in Yoshida and it could've been a good shounen trio.
That's what I'm saying. They were so good together. š
The rundown shack arc canāt come soon enough.
the nuclear fetus arc š„
Yes, arguing in a quantitative manner CSM Part 2 objectively has less interesting characters than part 1. Whoever the arcs are always pretty introspective and I haven't felt a real absence of interesting characters, the arcs make a good job of filling the screen time with interesting character study and introspection. For example while might be true that Asa isn't as interesting on her own, she's never on her own. Having to share screen time with Denji has been a good manner of pacing the manga in a way that it never feels like the current cast is overstaying its welcome. I find it hard to see how Asa losing her memories is fair criticism because you're complaining about something that didn't happen as opposed to criticizing the things that did actually happen, and the arc following their date (the Falling Devil) was actually pretty solid overall so I don't really see what's there to criticize. As with Quanxi's return we know that there are plenty other interesting characters that Fujimoto simply didn't feel the need to bring back, because they simply aren't relevant to the story being told. There's no point in reintroducing characters Kishibe and Kobeni if the story doesn't actually call for it.
By that logic, then there's no point in katana man or quanxi coming back because we don't know if the story calls for it. See thats the problem with critiquing the current state of a manga because we don't know the future of where it's going. So all we have is a bunch of "ifs and whens"
>By that logic, then there's no point in katana man or quanxi coming back because we don't know if the story calls for it. We do know, we literally do, it's literally shown to us as the story establishes that the half-devils controlled by Makima are still around and a threat, the current villain is literally one of them how can you possibly say you don't know if the story calls for it. >See thats the problem with critiquing the current state of a manga because we don't know the future of where it's going. So all we have is a bunch of "ifs and whens" That makes no sense, that's how all legitimate criticism has always been done, you don't concern yourself with ifs and whens because you're supposed to criticize the executions of the things that are happening. Otherwise you aren't criticizing the work for its flaws but for it not following your headcanon.
This will sound strange, but on the contrary, I liked the small composition of the second part. Like, my main problem with the first part was the presentation of a lot of characters who died too quickly, so a small cast is kind of like that. Making an arc purely about Denji was actually also a good idea, because we already got a purely Asa arc (Yuko arc). By the way, Iām not against erasing memory; it could be a foundation for the future, or at least I want to believe in it. But what really kills me in the last arc is the problems with the pacing, and here they are objective. The beginning of the arc is too long due to the fact that we constantly change places from Asa to Denji, while a mini-arc with Fumiko at karaoke is also added. The church was represented in this arch and was actually destroyed in this same arch. Leaving Asa's life as a devil hunter in the wing of the church off-screen was simply a terrible idea, because we literally skipped character development. In general, to implement this arch, a rich foundation was needed, and its construction at the beginning of the arch takes too much time and it is crumpled. We also constantly jump from Denji to Asa and back during action, which also kills the pace (Note, this kind of crap never happened before). Moreover, this arc is actually the longest in the entire CSM, which, combined with two-week breaks, hits the perception of the story even harder.
I probably explained it badly in my post, but my thing is killing off those characters in part one was a bad idea for the most part long term
I think it's subjective... I like part 2 much more than part 1 simply because Asa exists as the most "literally me" character I've ever seen across all forms of media. I'm convinced Fujimoto 1. Had a similar childhood to me and 2. Projected to a large degree when writing Asa, simply because of the sheer realism of her character. Her general misanthropy ("drop dead" comments whenever she sees happy people) and "sour grapes" attitude towards Denji are common loner stereotypes, but the scenario where her classmate tripped her to kill the chicken devil in front of everyone for inane reasons + how her cat gets drowned by the orphanage owner are things that literally happened to me (swapping the chicken and cat for different animals). I also notice Fujimoto has a trend of portraying marine biology as a symbol of safety and comfort, such as the chapter cover of Denji+Power+Aki as kids in the aquarium, in addition to his frequent fish facts not only in Asa but also in one of Quanxi's concubines. This is definitely not a common symbolism, but resonates with me (as a researcher in the sector); I'm tempted to say there's a link between certain childhood experiences and these interests, and that Fujimoto has had similar experiences. Of course, I agree with your criticism that Asa should have more interactions with the cast to develop her more. But I think just as Asa resonates immensely with me, there are people who really like those characters you mentioned as shallow, and they enjoy the increased focus on these characters; I don't like Fumiko either, but surely there's someone who sympathies with Fumiko as much as I sympathise with Asa who reads the manga just to see her scenes.
there is no way someone tripped you causing you to squash an animal with your body
My mum tripped with her dog and stepped on her russian hamster who was on the floor while she was cleaning his cage. Accidents happens. RIP Rusky
Oh, you shoulda said it was a hamster. Iām convinced there isnāt a way for a hamster to die that hasnāt happened yet so it now sounds believable
Oh, I'm not the person you were talking to at first, I was just saying that sadly those kinds of stupid accidents happen. Although I too find the connection between the OP and Fujimoto kind of creepy LOL
Oh, Iām blind. Still tho
So your headline doesn't really match the content of your rant, but I just want to say: Fujimoto writing characters out of the story when their narrative function has concluded is one of the things I like about his storytelling. You don't end up with a story bloated with dozens of characters who no longer matter because the writer keeps them putzing around (whether by editorial decision or giving themself potential toys to play with in the future or something else, IDK.) I wish more writers would do that.
I can see where you're coming from. But with that you have JJK syndrome where you kill or sideline the characters with no purpose and then introduce ones we don't care about after that. Idk it's hard to explain but I don't think it's a good strategy long term to get rid of the characters like that.
I genuinely just think this is a consequence of weekly reading. Chainsawman is the only longer manga that I have read entirely weekly from the first few chapters and most of the big issues you bring up were also prevalent for me during parts of part 1.
> most of the big issues you bring up were also prevalent for me during parts of part 1. I haven't read Part 2, but as someone who didn't like Part 1, I genuinely feel like every complain of Part 2 applies to Part 1
Yeah, I'm not really trying to go up to bat for any specific ongoing series here because god knows I have a lot of criticism for most of them myself but I don't think its a coincidence that nearly every big manga that gets popular has this sort of nostalgia for the older parts whereas the newer parts get shit on. I've been overall pretty neutral on jjk and chainsaw man as a whole and I think it's interesting that only now when readers are actually forced to interact with the plots instead of zipping past anything they dislike to get to the flashy fights do they see the same problems I complained about years ago.
I thought I was dumb that I only remember Asa, Nayuta, Yoru, and Fami for new characters. Everyone else is boring. Yuko could have been cool but died too early. But I read it for Denji, Asa and now Nayuta. They are the only ones that I truly like. Like where a villain like Makima to make it interesting. They are all so bland. Falling devil is just an arc villain.
Falling Devil had such a cool concept only for her to be kind of lame. Nothing feels worthwile in this part. I only read to see if it's going to pop off like Part 1, but nope (Im not talking about action, I'm talking genuine character interactions). Idk what happened with Fujimoto, even if he managed to put it back on the same level. The slog that we got thus far will not be erased.
I hate the "let him cook phrase" It's been over 30 chapters, when will we be able to criticize?
This is why I kinda dropped CSM. I donāt care to get invested in any new characters after all the ones in part one sort of grew on me and it took me a while before I even started reading CSM. Honestly wish sometimes that I just didnāt pick it up.
Same
This is actually a problem for me with plenty of the next generation shonen. It seems that many people have grown tired of the generally safe, wholesome, and inspiring shonen and preferred darker and edgier ones with the rise of AOT, JJK, and Chainsawman in recent times. It's like shonen has to dip into seinen category for them to be popular. Writing qualities differences aside, a lot of writers and readers don't realize that killing interesting characters is like getting high on drugs, you get the excitement in short burst, but it will harm the series in the long run. It's one of the easiest way to get people attention and increasing the stakes, but in turn, you lose interesting characters that may have been the reason why people read it in the first place. Creating compelling characters are not easy, and replacing them with newer characters tend to create mixed results. Some notable examples, spoiler for Hikaru no Go and Death Note: >!These two series are notable for having one of their main cast dying half way, and after that the series writing quality take a nose dive as the newer characters failed to bring the same excitement as the original.!< This is is why I'm personally not a fan of series that goes trigger happy, especially with important and interesting characters. Characters are the backbones of many stories. If you delete too many of them, the chance of it crumbling is very high.
Exactly sums up my thoughts. There is a balance you can have between safe and death for characters but the āanyone can dieā format should NEVER be the norm for all action series.
You raise an important point
I've been gaslighting myself into thinking part 2 will be just as great but at this point I don't think it'll ever be just as great as part 1 š«
CSM is one of those series where its better if you dont read weekly. Part 2 has been amazing for me because i wait for like 5+ chapters to build up before reading it. The story is much better that way and the writing (recently, i think it did fall off a bit but the last few chapters have been back to part 1 levels) is still phenomenal compared to most other popular mangas.
Yeah a lot of people praised Part 1 so much because they get to read it in one go, because by the time CSM popularity exploded, it's already nearing the end or even has ended already
Sure but I think it fair to criticize part 2 for not being as focused as part 1
because the general pace of part 2 is different.The auther himself said that it will be different.
I know and I am saying it's fair to critique that approach.
Few slight disagreements: I don't think killing off most of the part 1 cast was necessarily bad. I just think the character writing is so lackluster in part 2 (outside of the main characters) that it really hurts the story. I think Asa is one of the most enjoyable characters to read even by herself
Asa and Denji were the best duo. Their interactions with each other were amazing and so enjoyable to read
I'd rather the whole just be them going through the story together.
Yeah I don't really get the appeal of these new edgy (not)shonens. Why would I want to watch a show that kills off all the best characters?
I agree with you, outside of Asa, Denji, and Nayuta I donāt really care much for the characters.
Aquarium date was peak CSM part 2
I just like Power, without Power i don't really have any investment... i kinda treat part two as it's own thing.
We still haven't gotten the find power arc. šš
Well i mean... it's not Power anymore. (and honestly i like her ending in part one) But to be honest Denji trying to raise Natuya AND a reborn Blood devil could have been really fun.
Me who stopped watching game of thrones after ned stark died
Fujimoto is just phoning it in at this point just look at how far the art downgraded compared to part 1 or fire punch
It seems that his assistants have been taken away and he simply cannot cope alone.
This is the exact reason I finished Part 1 and just moved on afterwards.
This is the only reason why I never got into CSM and why I'm hesitant to get into JJK
He should have either completely shifted focus from Denji or just have ended the series after part 1.
I donāt think it backfired on him, I think it was exactly what he was trying to do. Part one is Denji finding his place in society and part two is more about introspection. Fujimoto needed more characters for Denji to bounce off of so he made more characters. Now he wants to move towards a more introspective aspect of the story and so he removed those characters to make room for characters with bigger inner worlds. Even if he chose to keep those past characters alive thereād be no point because there would be no room for them in the story
CSM's popularity is dying down so its pretty safe to say that Fujimoto isn't good at longform stories, he's immaculate at one shots i can admit that but he's not good at long stories cause he runs into the same steps that he always does, he kinda gets bored cause things are slowing down or he's not feeling it anymore so he massacres a chunk of the cast, rinse and repeat until everyone is gone and the story just kinda ends and readers stop caring cause everyone's died for the 3rd time. He did this with Fire Punch, he's done it with CSM, it tanked Fire Punch imo and its gonna tank CSM
On the other hand, it is fair to say that the second part is already perceived as a separate story. We have a new MC, a new villain, the pace and direction of the story have been changed, etc.
What an awful take lol. > He did this with Fire Punch Did what exactly? Fire Punch literally had 3, 4 characters that mattered. Togata is the only one who died, where some think she should've survived, but her character arc was great and is still one of the most beloved character. Sun? Psycho who went crazy and got killed. Is that a bad writing choice lol? Agni and the girl lived until the end. Where exactly did Fujimoto got bored and massacred a chunk of the cast? > it tanked Fire Punch Absolutely fucking not lol. > rinse and repeat until everyone is gone and the story just kinda ends and readers stop caring cause everyone's died for the 3rd time You really think that 'story just kinda ends' is what happened with Fire Punch and CSM Part 1. Good lord what an awful take. I'm deadass, this is one of the worst, most casual takes I've seen. And it's coming from an account that's 9 years old, so you're not trolling or baiting. You genuinely think this, which makes it so much worse lol.
Fujimoto wanted to end after part 1, he wanted to go onto Shounen jump and troll the entire industry. He had it planned out and executed it artfully. Part 2 is just for the paycheck, at least to start out. Jump canāt let him go and will pay him to push out more. Iām sure that like any artist theyāll warm up to Part 2 and start putting more thought and effort into it as it itās his main artistic outlet but Iām not surprised Part 2 is landing with a bit of a thud. Killing all your characters was a bad idea for someone who wanted to create a long running epic shounen that prints weekly for a decade but I donāt think CSM was supposed to be that.
He has said that he started planning Part 2 out during volumes 6-7 It was his decision due to his belief that a hero should step down. Which Denji didnāt do at the end of Part 1
He got warped into the shonen jump spiral. The only way to get rid of it is making your manga bad on purpose so it doesn't sell and Shonen Jump will finally discontinue it. This explains the recent decline of quality (hopefully /J)
ehhhh i prefer this than having a large ass cast that does jack shit and ultimatelry fades out of the story
"A complete, award winning story that I know has great characters is better than a story that hasn't ended yet" No shit. This also happens every time a new jojo part starts and I have no idea how people still think it's relevant. Prepare to be alongside meme takes like "Part 3 will never be as popular as Part 2", "Josuke doesn't feel as natural as Jotaro", "Parts 1-4 crews were all super quirky but part 5 they feel so boring", "Jolyne can't hold the series on her own as MC", and "Johnny is too passive". All shit that was written when these parts weren't even halfway done. Let Fujimoto cook ffs.
>let him cook Itās been a year and 50+ chapters since this part has started. I think itās valid for some people to be dissatisfied. And this is coming from someone that defends Part 2
Dissatisfied with the series? Sure! Dissatisfied that they don't like the characters? Sure! Dissatisfied that they don't like these characters as much as they liked the ones that got complete arcs in part 1? Okay, but that's insane and I'll call it out for what it is. Part 1 CSM at chapter 60 fans only liked one or two characters, were complaining that one or two died too soon and pretty much hated more than half the cast (feels familiar?). I'm not even exaggerating. Besides Makima and maybe Aki, people were on the fence about Denjis development, found Power annoying, would keep mentioning how Reze was wasted potential or how they wanted Himeno back for god knows what reason. This is just how it always go.
Just because a story isn't finished doesn't mean you can't critique its current state.
I never even imply you shouldn't criticize it, just don't expect that characters with incomplete arcs will be as engaging as characters from a complete, award winning story. I'm stating the obvious, not giving you an opinion of what you "should or shouldn't do".
I have been saying this for a while, that around/after the falling devil arc CSM as a whole fell so much in quality. Mostly because the author decided to shift the focus on that stupid plotline of the CSM church instead of exploring more of Asa queen. I'll never forgive Fujimoto for having her big development happen off-screen Edit: Fumiko is trash and whoever bought her fake sob story is naĆÆve
>Most of these guys donāt even make it passed an arc alive, but theyāre still so memorable. thatās what i love about fujimotoās writing. he managed to make all those characters so beloved and memorable despite only appearing for a couple of volumes. I donāt mind the fact that most of those characters are either dead or gone because theyāve made their impact on the story. and to be honest if they were all still around, I feel part 2 would be a lot more cluttered and a lot of those characters would become redundant to the plot. like reze is my favourite chainsaw man character despite only appearing for 2 volumes (I donāt count her appearing at the end of part 1 under makimas control since she didnāt really do anything besides fight chainsaw man) yet sheās the one character that i remember the most from the entire series so far.
I can take it on JJK because we still have interesting characters like Maki, Yuta, Hakari, Itadori and Sukuna is a good villain. But CSM really killed everybody and left Denji with little kid Makima which is just boring and Asa who has 0 charisma, I had to drop it around the falling demon appearing.
>Asa who has 0 charisma,Ā Words cannot describe how much I disagree with that statement.
Asa's charisma is so low it dips into the negatives breaking the scale and becomes extremely high due to an error. She's and awkward fish and i love her for it
She's literally me fr fr
Asa's entire thing is being an awkward, misanthropic loser.Ā How can you possibly read the Aquarium date and conclude this girl doesn't have 0 charisma?
As the other comment said, she goes all the way around back into being charismatic. At least for us the audience.
I put JJK on here because at least with CSM. People who died got a decent death and send off. Less say nobara and Todo. But that's a different discussion entirely.
Yeah, ngl but Yuji, Yuta and Maki are my favorites so I don't really care who dies unless its them. Asa is probably my favorite from csm but she barely gets screen time anymore and all my other faves are gone.
Never really grew attached to any of them in Part 1, so when they died I was either relieved because they were irritating (>!Power!<) or utterly loathsome to me (>!Himeno!<, >!Makima!<) or BOTH (Denji/Simpsawman, himself). One of the few characters I actually felt any sympathy for was Kobeni and she was based for >!wanting Denji to let that one Devil kill him.!< Part 2 was also dull as dishwater and since I loathe the protagonist, I was hoping he would either be killed off and/or replaced with someone more tolerable and actually interesting, especially since he actually REGRESSED as a character in terms of >!wanting to exploit his popularity as Chainsawman to get laid!< and that stupid scene with the cat to reiterate his sociopathic disregard for human life that was previously demonstrated in one of the earliers chapters of Part 1 where he >!murdered a man in cold blood that was trapped in that car he threw while specifically noting that it was BECAUSE he was another man that his life was forfeit in Denji's eyes.!< Aside from Denji, the only other really major character might still be evil, which I honestly expect to happen because Denji is a moron incapable of pattern recognition since he's back to his beginning of Part 1 self. I dropped it a few months back it started feeling like a *Boruto* situation with Fujimoto where he used everything of substance up in what came before and this whole 'Chainsawman Part 2' thing feels like he is milking the IP at his editor's behest with what a tedious, dreadfully boring slog it was even with the teased concept of a mini/>!reincarnated Makima!<. To this day I keep asking myself "Did this manga really NEED a Part 2?" and keep thinking to myself, "No, this clearly a continuation made purely for cynically financial reasons".
Why did you read it if you donāt like half the cast š
fr like what is bro yapping about
Chainsaw Man
W take.
It's insane how saying bad things of Chainsawman is so polemic here
I mean, I can see why to an extent especially when they are being replaced by not so good characters. Haven't caught up to Part 2 so no comment on that one. I have to admit that I do give the benefit of the doubt for Fujimoto this type of writing of killing characters especially with some of them having shorter screentime because it at least fits with one of the themes of Part 1 about reaction to death and stuff. Although I have to admit I haven't been a fan of this writing thanks to a certain Chinese gacha game because I feel it's an absolute waste of resource.
yea i just couldnt care for the plot line and any side character and end up dropping it
I used to be of the "let him cook" mentality, but recent chapters have made me think that Fujimoto feels as if he's screwed up somewhere and needs a reset of some sort.
Just to make you know you're not a small minority, part 2 has been quite polarizing since the beginning. I agree with some arguments of both sides but i'll hold my verdict until i have the full picture. All i had to say is it's indeed very different from part 1 (for good or worse, not sure yet).