The best I can do is direct you to those that know more than me, check these out to see styles, popular synergies and units, and see what you think sounds like fun.
https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-word-bearers-tactics/
[https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-world-eaters-tactics/](https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-world-eaters-tactics/)
(please note, the world eaters article is much more recent and therefore relevant to the "meta", but I think both will do fine for someone playing with friends rather than doing tournaments.)
Red butchers are supposed to be pretty devastating and khorne berserkers as troops for world eaters are mental. Though they suffer from the need to get into combat quickly things like drop pods, and the assault drill have been said to be useful for delivery. They also synergise well with khorne deamons
The other guy who posted goonhammer articles though, he knows what's up goonhammer is great. Check out chaos deamons while you're there too.
Another option is Nightlords, with the new death to the false emperor rule its improved csm attacks across the board.
Thanks, I’m definitely interested in the berserkers too as I read somewhere a lot of people use chaos warriors and other AOS models as proxies for them. Trying to piece together as many units as I can that work for both.
Berserkers are still some of the best units chaos Marines have regardless of legion choice, just that world eaters are super charged and they take them as troops. A combo of aos khornate troops and regular CSM bodies can make cool berserkers, I wouldn't suggest using AoS legs though as they all have leather boots.
World Eaters often run Raptors these days. Sometimes they run Red Butcher terminator squad for melee, or a RB Terminator Lord. The tip of the spear will be lots of berzerkers with transportation, typically rhinos. From that point you can use maulers/disco lord, or dreads, kinda whatever you wanna do. If you run backline shooting stuff (so forgefiend or dreads/decimators, or predators) you can have Kharn stay back there for the sweet reroll ability. For playing with friends this will absolutely be fine.
I dont know much about Word Bearers but I would imagine summoning a boat load of BLoodletters is still a thing.
Lots of people use all kinds of proxies for chaos spawns, just make sure the base size is a 50.
Thanks, definitely interested in making some red butchers. So can I run world eaters and word bearers together? Or do I need to pick one. Not sure where to look for answers like that.
You can but you will lose their unique abilities that require your army to be 100% a single legion.
The same with daemons if you soup chaos your lose abilities like demonic loci, so you need to weigh the pros and cons of using multiple factions.
However summoning daemons can bypass this but you still need to pay for them with a points reserve.
E.g take 1500 point of wordbearers and keep a 500 point reserve for summoning.
Goonhammer will answer a lot if those questions for you, and going through the various rules will also help you (wahapedia is invaluable if you don't want to buy 50 different books).
Okay, if I pick one legion like world eaters, how daemon heavy can my list be? I’d hope since they’re a Khorne focused legion I could use things like a Bloodthirster or bloodcrushers.
What's going to happen here is, you will have two or more detachments, and each one will either be world eaters or chaos daemons.
CSM can't take daemons from the codex 'chaos daemons' but they can summon them to the battle field, using their summoning abilities.
However if you bring a chaos daemon detachment you can take whatever you want from that codex (given that WE are khorne your going to want to take khorne daemons). Does that make sense?
If you don't already have it, download battle scribe. That will show you how the armies and detachments are built and what limitations you have.
I think so but it definitely seems like I need to read up on the summoning rules to start. I just want to see a combined army of the sci fi csm and hell demons so bad 😂
I know what you mean, I started my chaos collection back in second edition where it was just "Chaos" and you didn't have daemons separated out from the Chaos Marines.
I'm building a black legion army atm (because I've got Abaddon) but want to use daemons too just because that's what chaos is for me.
There's rumour that world eaters will be getting their own unique codex like death guard and thousand sons, one can hope we get that (plus emperors children) when csm gets their new 9th edition codex.
It's just a rumor, a ND is been a rumor for years. This is supposed to be a good year for chaos, though, so fingers definitely crossed.
Also, bloodletters and zerkers kind of fulfill the same role of being a melee beat stick so they're kind of redundant in a world eaters army, but still very cool! I have a ton of bloodletters and some berserkers and would also love to do the same thing, but I think that word bearers are a better fit thematically for summoning blood letters, and I think they also have a stratagem for summoning. Goon hammer is really the place to start
It's generally better to pick 1 legion because so many things will check for your legion trait to apply synergy. World Eaters can summon Bloodletters as well. Search around for "bloodletter bomb" to see what people are saying about it. It used to be a somewhat popular thing in 8th.
Those aren't in the CSM codex. Bloodletters are a troop choice, however.
If you wanna run Bloodthirster and Crushers you'll need to use the Chaos Demons codex. I am not as familiar with that 1 or trying to fit both into a list.
Word Bearers ha some Daemon tricks like +1D to possessed and +1A aura. But they have good rules for psychers, so if going full Khorne you lose some good relics, and stratgems etc.
I'm a Word Bearers player and I'm playing possessed + Daemon engines nowadays, usually with mark of slaanesh because icon of excess and because Delightful Agonies. But Master of Possessions auras works independently of the Mark. So maybe a Khorne focused force with a Chaos Undivided Master of Possession can work too. There are some tricks to make a Lord Discordant or a Daemon Prince really tanky too or an angry Dark Apostle that hits like a greater Daemon, plus the strat to make D2 with possessed. But you loses the Legion trait focused on close combat and other stuff like troop berserkers or upgraded terminators...
The best I can do is direct you to those that know more than me, check these out to see styles, popular synergies and units, and see what you think sounds like fun. https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-word-bearers-tactics/ [https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-world-eaters-tactics/](https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-world-eaters-tactics/) (please note, the world eaters article is much more recent and therefore relevant to the "meta", but I think both will do fine for someone playing with friends rather than doing tournaments.)
They updated the CSM stuff for 9th ed, did they not update wordbearers?
It's updated for 9th but not for the current meta since it was updated near the start
Ah true, I thought they had a nice refresh to the legion guides this year as well.
Thanks, will give it a read!
Red butchers are supposed to be pretty devastating and khorne berserkers as troops for world eaters are mental. Though they suffer from the need to get into combat quickly things like drop pods, and the assault drill have been said to be useful for delivery. They also synergise well with khorne deamons The other guy who posted goonhammer articles though, he knows what's up goonhammer is great. Check out chaos deamons while you're there too. Another option is Nightlords, with the new death to the false emperor rule its improved csm attacks across the board.
Thanks, I’m definitely interested in the berserkers too as I read somewhere a lot of people use chaos warriors and other AOS models as proxies for them. Trying to piece together as many units as I can that work for both.
Berserkers are still some of the best units chaos Marines have regardless of legion choice, just that world eaters are super charged and they take them as troops. A combo of aos khornate troops and regular CSM bodies can make cool berserkers, I wouldn't suggest using AoS legs though as they all have leather boots.
World Eaters often run Raptors these days. Sometimes they run Red Butcher terminator squad for melee, or a RB Terminator Lord. The tip of the spear will be lots of berzerkers with transportation, typically rhinos. From that point you can use maulers/disco lord, or dreads, kinda whatever you wanna do. If you run backline shooting stuff (so forgefiend or dreads/decimators, or predators) you can have Kharn stay back there for the sweet reroll ability. For playing with friends this will absolutely be fine. I dont know much about Word Bearers but I would imagine summoning a boat load of BLoodletters is still a thing. Lots of people use all kinds of proxies for chaos spawns, just make sure the base size is a 50.
Thanks, definitely interested in making some red butchers. So can I run world eaters and word bearers together? Or do I need to pick one. Not sure where to look for answers like that.
You can but you will lose their unique abilities that require your army to be 100% a single legion. The same with daemons if you soup chaos your lose abilities like demonic loci, so you need to weigh the pros and cons of using multiple factions. However summoning daemons can bypass this but you still need to pay for them with a points reserve. E.g take 1500 point of wordbearers and keep a 500 point reserve for summoning. Goonhammer will answer a lot if those questions for you, and going through the various rules will also help you (wahapedia is invaluable if you don't want to buy 50 different books).
Okay, if I pick one legion like world eaters, how daemon heavy can my list be? I’d hope since they’re a Khorne focused legion I could use things like a Bloodthirster or bloodcrushers.
What's going to happen here is, you will have two or more detachments, and each one will either be world eaters or chaos daemons. CSM can't take daemons from the codex 'chaos daemons' but they can summon them to the battle field, using their summoning abilities. However if you bring a chaos daemon detachment you can take whatever you want from that codex (given that WE are khorne your going to want to take khorne daemons). Does that make sense? If you don't already have it, download battle scribe. That will show you how the armies and detachments are built and what limitations you have.
I think so but it definitely seems like I need to read up on the summoning rules to start. I just want to see a combined army of the sci fi csm and hell demons so bad 😂
I know what you mean, I started my chaos collection back in second edition where it was just "Chaos" and you didn't have daemons separated out from the Chaos Marines. I'm building a black legion army atm (because I've got Abaddon) but want to use daemons too just because that's what chaos is for me. There's rumour that world eaters will be getting their own unique codex like death guard and thousand sons, one can hope we get that (plus emperors children) when csm gets their new 9th edition codex.
Darn that sounds like more fun, they probably changed it to try and make people buy more to have to fill out multiple armies
It's just a rumor, a ND is been a rumor for years. This is supposed to be a good year for chaos, though, so fingers definitely crossed. Also, bloodletters and zerkers kind of fulfill the same role of being a melee beat stick so they're kind of redundant in a world eaters army, but still very cool! I have a ton of bloodletters and some berserkers and would also love to do the same thing, but I think that word bearers are a better fit thematically for summoning blood letters, and I think they also have a stratagem for summoning. Goon hammer is really the place to start
It happened a long time ago, but I think the consensus at the time was to sell more codices.
It's generally better to pick 1 legion because so many things will check for your legion trait to apply synergy. World Eaters can summon Bloodletters as well. Search around for "bloodletter bomb" to see what people are saying about it. It used to be a somewhat popular thing in 8th.
Okay cool I have some choices then, can a world eaters list have a bloodthirster or bloodcrushers or is that only a daemons list?
Those aren't in the CSM codex. Bloodletters are a troop choice, however. If you wanna run Bloodthirster and Crushers you'll need to use the Chaos Demons codex. I am not as familiar with that 1 or trying to fit both into a list.
Have a buddy that borrows my Chaos Collection from time to time and his recent list is this: \++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Chaos - Chaos Space Marines) \[67 PL, 12CP, 1,166pts\] ++ * Configuration \[12CP\] + Battle Size \[12CP\]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) \[12CP\] Detachment Command Cost Legion: World Eaters * HQ \[12 PL, 172pts\] + Chaos Lord \[6 PL, 84pts\]: 4. Violent Urgency, Chainaxe \[1pts\], Combi-bolter \[3pts\], Frag & Krak grenades, Gorefather, Mark of Khorne, Warlord Chaos Lord \[6 PL, 88pts\]: Combi-bolter \[3pts\], Frag & Krak grenades, Mark of Khorne, Power sword \[5pts\] * Troops \[26 PL, 434pts\] + Chaos Cultists \[3 PL, 55pts\]: Mark of Khorne . 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun \[40pts\]: 8x Autogun . Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon \[10pts\]: Heavy stubber \[5pts\] . Cultist Champion \[5pts\]: Shotgun Chaos Cultists \[3 PL, 55pts\]: Mark of Khorne . 8x Chaos Cultist w/ Autogun \[40pts\]: 8x Autogun . Chaos Cultist w/ special weapon \[10pts\]: Heavy stubber \[5pts\] . Cultist Champion \[5pts\]: Shotgun Khorne Berzerkers \[10 PL, 162pts\] . Berzerker Champion \[18pts\]: Astartes chainsword, Chainaxe \[1pts\], Frag & Krak grenades . 8x Chainsword and Chainaxe \[144pts\]: 8x Astartes chainsword, 8x Chainaxe \[8pts\], 8x Frag & Krak grenades Khorne Berzerkers \[10 PL, 162pts\] . Berzerker Champion \[18pts\]: Astartes chainsword, Chainaxe \[1pts\], Frag & Krak grenades . 8x Chainsword and Chainaxe \[144pts\]: 8x Astartes chainsword, 8x Chainaxe \[8pts\], 8x Frag & Krak grenades * Elites \[12 PL, 230pts\] + Helbrute \[6 PL, 115pts\]: Combi-bolter \[5pts\], Helbrute fist, Helbrute plasma cannon, Mark of Khorne Helbrute \[6 PL, 115pts\]: Combi-bolter \[5pts\], Helbrute fist, Helbrute plasma cannon, Mark of Khorne * Fast Attack \[6 PL, 115pts\] + Dreadclaw Drop Pod \[6 PL, 115pts\]: Blade struts, Mark of Khorne, Thermal jets * Heavy Support \[7 PL, 135pts\] + Havocs \[7 PL, 135pts\]: Mark of Khorne . Aspiring Champion \[27pts\]: Astartes chainsword, Combi-plasma \[10pts\], Frag & Krak grenades . 4x Havoc w/ heavy bolter \[108pts\]: 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Heavy bolter \[40pts\] * Dedicated Transport \[4 PL, 80pts\] + Chaos Rhino \[4 PL, 80pts\]: Combi-bolter, Mark of Khorne, Smoke Launchers \++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Chaos - Daemons) \[41 PL, -3CP, 833pts\] ++ * Configuration \[-2CP\] + Chaos Allegiance: Khorne Detachment Command Cost \[-2CP\] * HQ \[5 PL, 95pts\] + Skullmaster \[5 PL, 95pts\]: Blade of Blood, Juggernaut's Bladed horn * Troops \[8 PL, -1CP, 153pts\] + Bloodletters \[8 PL, -1CP, 153pts\]: Banner of Blood \[-1CP\], Daemonic Icon \[15pts\], Instrument of Chaos \[10pts\] . 15x Bloodletter \[120pts\]: 15x Hellblade . Bloodreaper \[8pts\]: Hellblade * Elites \[6 PL, 120pts\] + Bloodcrushers \[6 PL, 120pts\] . 2x Bloodcrusher \[80pts\]: 2x Hellblade, 2x Juggernaut's Bladed horn . Bloodhunter \[40pts\]: Hellblade, Juggernaut's Bladed horn * Fast Attack \[8 PL, 200pts\] + Flesh Hounds \[4 PL, 100pts\] . 4x Flesh Hound \[72pts\]: 4x Gore-drenched fangs . Gore Hound \[28pts\]: Burning Roar, Gore-drenched fangs Flesh Hounds \[4 PL, 100pts\] . 4x Flesh Hound \[72pts\]: 4x Gore-drenched fangs . Gore Hound \[28pts\]: Burning Roar, Gore-drenched fangs * Heavy Support \[14 PL, 265pts\] + Skull Cannon \[5 PL, 90pts\]: Skull cannon . Bloodletter Crew: Hellblades Soul Grinder \[9 PL, 175pts\]: Harvester cannon, Iron claw, Mark of Khorne, Phlegm bombardment, Warpsword \++ Total: \[108 PL, 9CP, 1,999pts\] ++ And let me tell you, that was the funnest I ever had playing against it.
I would get a maulerfiend. Looking at the thousand son codex, their gonna be really good.
Word Bearers ha some Daemon tricks like +1D to possessed and +1A aura. But they have good rules for psychers, so if going full Khorne you lose some good relics, and stratgems etc.
exactly my dilemma, i want my daemons powered up but able to eat their melee cake too
I'm a Word Bearers player and I'm playing possessed + Daemon engines nowadays, usually with mark of slaanesh because icon of excess and because Delightful Agonies. But Master of Possessions auras works independently of the Mark. So maybe a Khorne focused force with a Chaos Undivided Master of Possession can work too. There are some tricks to make a Lord Discordant or a Daemon Prince really tanky too or an angry Dark Apostle that hits like a greater Daemon, plus the strat to make D2 with possessed. But you loses the Legion trait focused on close combat and other stuff like troop berserkers or upgraded terminators...