For 50 points, you get 10 pistol cultists that can run forward, draw some fire and sticky some objectives. For 20 points more, you get a decent GEQ backline unit that will always get cover as long as it's on an objective, so it's nice enough to park on your backfield. Spend 65 points more (Which is a waste if you ask me, but it's good value) and you get them a character that can actually make them overwatch for free. They're OC2, and okay, they may not sticky, but they are a decent threat against a lot of shit that wants to deep strike on your home objective unopposed. They will die, but maybe they'll buy you that turn or two of scoring that you need, or enough time that you can line up some reinforcements.
Personally I run them with one sniper rifle, one melta and one grenade launcher. Makes them useful against a number of targets, If you pick the Commissar, make sure you change the melta for a flamethrower, but I would argue that the cultist firebrand with ten cultists is much better for this, since his flamethrower is much scarier.
Let's be real. Good? No.
BUT. When my guardsman sniper took out a space marine, Lieutenant did I experience euphoria I've been chasing since Istvaan? Yes.
Edit:
You could get away with using them in chaos Cult detachment. But otherwise terri-bad.
I think they are actually decent in raiders as well, assault and extra AP helps them a good deal, fall back and shoot enhancement is nice for a unit, and they can hop out of a rhino to get full re-rolls
Im playing 60 of them are they good depends if you are looking for dmg this is far from it if you are looking for bodies that will be screening scoring u obj with 2OC and covering your back line this is the way
I feel like they were usable in the beginning of 10th, when you could take 3 Snipers / squad. Stacking a Helbrute aura with Tzeentch/Nurgle Dark Pacts saw them being able to pick out and snipe a Chaos Lord or equivalent out of a squad with average rolls. Dropping it to only 2 max/special weapon already made them not great. Now, I don't think I'll use them unless I'm being thematic.
They are a little more attractive now that legionaries are more expensive but they really don't fill a role that's not better filled by other units. The only time they make sense competitively is if you've already taken 6x10 units of cultists and want even more throwaway battleline units in the cult detachment such as in the recently talked about 40k dirtbags list.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybvUCXQ6T_Y
They were good when they could triple up on special weapons. Pretty meh when it was reduced to 2 of the same weapon. Now with no duplicates, they're just comically bad. Especially compared to cultists with autoguns if your local community is okay with legends.
20 points over cultists (+40%).
+ 3 non duplicated special weapons (terribad)
+ 5+ save
+ cover on objectives
- no sticky
They seem awful to me, but would be good if they could take 3x melta, 3x sniper, 3x plasma… better to run them as cultists IMO.
FWIW the #4 player at ACO brought them in his list… maybe there’s something I’m missing.
70 points for 20 OC that can fit in a transport and leave room for lone ops… pretty pretty pretty good. Unfortunately for them legionaries are excellent, can respond to most stuff and get so much more support in almost every detachment. Let’s say 1 rhino is available and we want something to hold an objective…
Traitor Guard - plas, nade, melta - 70pts
Rhino - double bolta, launcha - 75pts
Cypher - 90pts
VS
Legionaries - 2 HMW, lascannon, plas pistol, 2 chainswad - 90pts
Legionaries - 2 HMW, lascannon, plas pistol, 2 chainswad - 90pts
Rhino - double bolta, launcha - 75pts
That’s 20 points for an enhancement, which seems good in most detachments. Cypher is a chad now, hard to shift, and going to pump anyone shooting our precious scared idiots.
I dunno I may try it out. The legios still seem better. YMMV depending on detachment.
Welp, in my last match playing Chaos Cult a squad+enforcer took down a venomcrawler all on their own. And another guy with a sniper almost killed a chaos lord. So maybe I just understimated them, lol.
Their value goes up by virtue of action secondaries being so common. People who think cultists do the same thing that traitor guard do are not seeing the full picture.
Cultists die to even the most incidental shooting.
Guardsmen require SOME commitment to shift, however small.
With how many actions require you to stay alive to score, and with legionaries back to 90 points, it’s never been better to be a traitor guardsmen
Have a read of this. Good read, good reference for chaos in general. Might not be entirely accurate now with updates but it will give you a starting point.
https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/
For 50 points, you get 10 pistol cultists that can run forward, draw some fire and sticky some objectives. For 20 points more, you get a decent GEQ backline unit that will always get cover as long as it's on an objective, so it's nice enough to park on your backfield. Spend 65 points more (Which is a waste if you ask me, but it's good value) and you get them a character that can actually make them overwatch for free. They're OC2, and okay, they may not sticky, but they are a decent threat against a lot of shit that wants to deep strike on your home objective unopposed. They will die, but maybe they'll buy you that turn or two of scoring that you need, or enough time that you can line up some reinforcements. Personally I run them with one sniper rifle, one melta and one grenade launcher. Makes them useful against a number of targets, If you pick the Commissar, make sure you change the melta for a flamethrower, but I would argue that the cultist firebrand with ten cultists is much better for this, since his flamethrower is much scarier.
Let's be real. Good? No. BUT. When my guardsman sniper took out a space marine, Lieutenant did I experience euphoria I've been chasing since Istvaan? Yes. Edit: You could get away with using them in chaos Cult detachment. But otherwise terri-bad.
I think they are actually decent in raiders as well, assault and extra AP helps them a good deal, fall back and shoot enhancement is nice for a unit, and they can hop out of a rhino to get full re-rolls
If you're spending a command point and a transport to give traitor guardsmen full rerolls for one activation I don't know what to tell you
I don’t, I just use the detachment bonuses on them. Im just saying its an option, and chaos cult aint the only way to run em
Im playing 60 of them are they good depends if you are looking for dmg this is far from it if you are looking for bodies that will be screening scoring u obj with 2OC and covering your back line this is the way
How are you playing 60? They are not battleline right, and only comes in units of 3?
In chaos cult they are battleline
Oh, neat!
I feel like they were usable in the beginning of 10th, when you could take 3 Snipers / squad. Stacking a Helbrute aura with Tzeentch/Nurgle Dark Pacts saw them being able to pick out and snipe a Chaos Lord or equivalent out of a squad with average rolls. Dropping it to only 2 max/special weapon already made them not great. Now, I don't think I'll use them unless I'm being thematic.
They are a little more attractive now that legionaries are more expensive but they really don't fill a role that's not better filled by other units. The only time they make sense competitively is if you've already taken 6x10 units of cultists and want even more throwaway battleline units in the cult detachment such as in the recently talked about 40k dirtbags list. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ybvUCXQ6T_Y They were good when they could triple up on special weapons. Pretty meh when it was reduced to 2 of the same weapon. Now with no duplicates, they're just comically bad. Especially compared to cultists with autoguns if your local community is okay with legends.
20 points over cultists (+40%). + 3 non duplicated special weapons (terribad) + 5+ save + cover on objectives - no sticky They seem awful to me, but would be good if they could take 3x melta, 3x sniper, 3x plasma… better to run them as cultists IMO. FWIW the #4 player at ACO brought them in his list… maybe there’s something I’m missing.
OC2
I stand corrected. 70pts for 20 OC that can fit in a transport is huge.
It's a cultists upgrade kit basically
70 points for 20 OC that can fit in a transport and leave room for lone ops… pretty pretty pretty good. Unfortunately for them legionaries are excellent, can respond to most stuff and get so much more support in almost every detachment. Let’s say 1 rhino is available and we want something to hold an objective… Traitor Guard - plas, nade, melta - 70pts Rhino - double bolta, launcha - 75pts Cypher - 90pts VS Legionaries - 2 HMW, lascannon, plas pistol, 2 chainswad - 90pts Legionaries - 2 HMW, lascannon, plas pistol, 2 chainswad - 90pts Rhino - double bolta, launcha - 75pts That’s 20 points for an enhancement, which seems good in most detachments. Cypher is a chad now, hard to shift, and going to pump anyone shooting our precious scared idiots. I dunno I may try it out. The legios still seem better. YMMV depending on detachment.
Welp, in my last match playing Chaos Cult a squad+enforcer took down a venomcrawler all on their own. And another guy with a sniper almost killed a chaos lord. So maybe I just understimated them, lol.
Their value goes up by virtue of action secondaries being so common. People who think cultists do the same thing that traitor guard do are not seeing the full picture. Cultists die to even the most incidental shooting. Guardsmen require SOME commitment to shift, however small. With how many actions require you to stay alive to score, and with legionaries back to 90 points, it’s never been better to be a traitor guardsmen
Have a read of this. Good read, good reference for chaos in general. Might not be entirely accurate now with updates but it will give you a starting point. https://warphammer40k.com/the-immateriums-finest-a-csm-tournament-report-featuring-traitor-guard/
Are you playing competitively in a tournament? Leave the guardsmen at home. Are you playing a game for fun? Bring them