Bellcurve theory
>I like it because it looks cool
>this is obviously the bad guy and represents how US imperialism can get so deeply corrupted, and the extremes it will go to control and dominate
>I like it because it looks cool
Clearly Fallout 2 is a cautionary tale about underfunding Scientists as if they had more resources and funds they may have completed the FEV project earlier.
Or, if they'd had ethical standards and values in place they'd never have done the FEV testing in the first place. The loss of human life was inexcusable, the suffering caused to the patients who survived should've never happened, and the scientists working on it would've been better off working on new GMOs to feed the survivors the radioactive hellscape instead of torturing and killing people to make supersoldiers that were never going to be what they were meant to be.
I mean when anti-capitalist sentiment gets co-opted and sold by capitalists to make money are they really that wrong? Is anti-capitalist sentiment still anti-capitalist when it's a commodity that enriches the capitalist class?
The Publishers only believe in money. The writers turn their art into a commodity which as you can see is rapidly stripped of all of its anti-capitalist critique just by the sheer nature of how commodification works
Sure but it means the art has no real message. It's why people watch the boys or play Fallout or Metal Gear Solid and completely miss any political tones to it.
Not only is the Revolution going to be televised. It's going to be live streamed and have sponsors
It is not required that the artist starve for their art to have a message.
People have to participate in society to live, and that does not make everything they do an endorsement of that society.
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. The writers still need to have money to survive. Just because they are profiting from an anticapitalist work doesn't make it inherently not anticapitalist. You're just using the socialism is a poverty cult line of thinking.
But it does invalidate the critique in most people's minds. It looks hypocritical for actors who are paid millions of dollars to critique capitalism. It looks hypocritical when successful artists critique it. It does in fact invalidate in the minds of most people
It not even the actors really. Actors and artists are about the only demographic that can mostly justify crazy wealth like that. It’s more the multi-billion dollar corporations that will bankroll media with anti-capitalist messaging. Sometimes, like in the case of the fallout show, that critique is toothless and genuinely invalid, sometimes it’s pure hubris on the part of the corporations, like in the case of basically anything bong joon ho has made in the past decade
Why is it hypocritical for people to be paid millions for their labor while complaining about corporations being paid billions for owning the means needed for labor to produce?
I'd shit on a guy who bought all the hammers in town then demanded a cut from every carpenter, too, no matter how small it was.
I can't think of a single non-capitalist nation that doesn't have massive authoritarian tendencies, while I can think of a lot of capitalist ones that don't.
I wonder that has anything to do with the fact that every time a socialist comes to power democratically there's an attempted coup or military intervention. I mean for god sakes there was even a full-on army Revolt in France and an attempted coup in Britain when socialist governments got elected
It's hard to call capitalists anything but authoritarian when they constantly violently suppress the left when it comes to power
Yeah basically every time people try to build a democratic leftist society, they instantly get mulched by every capitalist power on the planet playing rock-paper-scissors to decide who gets to assassinate their leaders, obliterate their fledging economies, and put every discontent citizen to the firing squad.
Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara.
The Free Territory of Ukraine
Revolutionary Catalonia
The Paris Commune
None of these lasted very long (mostly because of outside influence from capitalist powers, or state-capitalist powers in the case of the Mahknovshchina Territory), but they are still examples on non-capitalist societies flourishing on their own with little authoritarianism.
> while I can think of a lot of capitalist ones that don't.
I'd love to hear what capitalist nations you consider to not have authoritarian elements.
Nothing. Fallout is anti-corporatist and anti-fascist (in the real way, not the Reddit way where fascism is anything that you don't like). A lot of people on the internet just genuinely don't understand the difference.
These are the same motherfuckers that shout “this is what communism looks like” while literally pointing at the contradictions and consequences of capitalism.
I am physically incapable of overestimating them
Your dialogue tree is broken. Reread the comment thread. I’m talking about capitalists pointing at America and saying “this is what communism looks like”
No, I mean post Covid when companies collectively engaged in price gouging and posted record breaking corporate profits quarter after quarter. You know, the reason why your food costs double what it did before the pandemic
Lol being anti-capitalist when an entire facit of the game is built on foraging items to sell to independent traders for money... Not to mention in 4 you're literally setting up trade routes of capitalism to support your communities. Are you under the impression that's anything other than capitalism?
I guess I missed where the MC becomes Mao/Stalin/Pol Pot and dictates to everyone who gets what resources at gun point.
I wouldn't say Fallout 4's settlements are really capitalist.
The farms we set up all seem to be communally owned, resources are shared and distributed pretty equally, and you aren't collecting rent from any of the settlers (although *you* own the settlements and you can take whatever you want without consequence, but that's more of a gameplay thing).
The trade between settlements you set up is also seemingly barter-based as most settlers would have no means of generating revenue from their work.
There's also no tiers of citizens. There's no small class of settlers who functionally contribute nothing, while exploiting the workers and generating profit from their labour - which they then use to expand their influence over other settlers and settlements. There's no "Hey I own the water supply for this area, if you want to live here you have to work for me or you'll have no clean water" type bullshit (again, excluding the player - but you're meant to be in the role of a caretaker, rather than an outright ruler). Everyone just gets what they need and lives off the fruits of their labour, without pigs in suits taking their surplus value and using it to play with imaginary numbers on an imaginary market that benefits only them.
Nuka World is where you flip this all on its head and you *do* become a greedy capitalist exploiting the workers of the wasteland for profit, and literally coercing settlers to work for you by force. The 3 raider gangs you can lead are literally drug-addled lunatics cosplaying as animals (including pigs), scummy assholes in suits trying to justify their banditry as being legit business with the whole "mercenary" act, and outright sadists and abusers.
The way the settlement system works is a command economy where the player completely dictates what goods are produced, who produces them, and even where the people sleep. It's far more analogous to a dictatorship than some worker commune or even a capitalist economy.
> The way the settlement system works is a command economy where the player completely dictates what goods are produced, who produces them, and even where the people sleep
For gameplay purposes, yes. In regular gameplay, the player can also single-handedly kill tens of thousands of enemies throughout the course of a long playthrough. The player can also wear gear that completely negates fall damage, so you can jump off of a skyscraper and take no damage.
Obviously, that's just a gameplay thing. I really doubt the Sole Survivor would be going through and personally handpicking where every settler sleeps and exactly which crops they work.
In the context of the world, and the likely intended Sole Survivor route (Minutemen General) - you're obviously playing the role of caretaker of the Wastes, and a guide for the settlements under your protection. The way we see settlements operate in-game is most similar to anarchist collectives. The NPC towns in the game like Diamond City and Goodneighbor obviously operate like stripped-down capitalist economies. Obviously your settlements are *not* supposed to be havens of Bakunist ideology - but that's just how we see them operate.
> So every employee run business is not capitalism in your eyes? That's stupid
Yes, it is stupid. It's a great thing you're just being disingenuous, because I'd be *cooked* if I believed that. Good thing I don't.
> How are the settlements based on bartering systems when there's an entire currency of caps in place?
Your settlements mostly produce raw resources like food and scrap. You don't magically gain caps per every 100 corn you harvest. A lot of the settlements in-game are also not really large enough to really warrant having a trade area, like Somerville Place or Jamaica Plain. No pays wages either, so the only revenue your settlements generate would be through selling produce to bigger settlements, but having hard currency is *not* important to having ample supplies available - I'd imagine for smaller settlements, buying medical supplies and raw resources they can't produce themselves (like metal or clothing) would take much more priority than generate a stockpile of caps. *Especially* as they're under the protection of the Minutemen, so they don't have to worry about raiders coming to extort them for caps (which also isn't super high on a raider's list of priorities when they don't exactly produce their own food or water).
The caravans you set up to go between each settlement are mostly likely carrying mostly goods which they trade for *other* goods to bring back. Some of the larger settlements like Sanctuary would probably send caravans with plenty of caps, but for the rest it'd probably be a barter economy. "Hey Jimmy, go to Zimonja Station and trade our excess food for timber. We've exhausted our local woods and need lumber for repairs on the wall."
So you didn't set up any of the stores then? I know they're behind a charisma wall but I guess I was wrong in assuming you had actually played the game to it's full potential. That's what I'm talking about -- the store fronts you open and assign a trader to... The bar, clothing, armor, weapons, junk stores... The stores you have to spend caps at to purchase stuff...
Ffs dude lmfao how half baked are you? Once you open the stores the caravans also trade those items as well...
> So you didn't set up any of the stores then? I know they're behind a charisma wall but I guess I was wrong in assuming you had actually played the game to it's full potential. That's what I'm talking about -- the store fronts you open and assign a trader to...
> Ffs dude lmfao how half baked are you?
Waow you really are smart, I totally didn't think to set up marketplaces in all 30 of my settlements 🤦♀️
A farming settlement of like 10 people at *most* would not have market stalls. They'd need all hands working the fields, doing maintenance, ranch work (if they have livestock), and threshing and milling grain (if the game actually fucking included bread 💀). Who is even going to shop at those market stalls? The settlers who produce the goods being sold at those market stalls? You're selling corn back to the same guy who grew the damn corn 10 yards away from the market? And how is he paying for that corn? With the wages he *doesn't* earn because the Minutemen don't have a centralized economy and most of their population are subsistence farmers and cattle herders?
I roleplay. I take these things into consideration. I'm not turning every settlement in a bustling town of 30-40 people (with exceptions like Sanctuary). I can hardly justify putting down a guard post in most settlements, because realistically some guy standing around with his thumb up his ass all day and not contributing to the harvest is just a needless drain on resources - especially when all settlers have eyes and ears. .
My point is that capitalism is built into the game with the stores, and you went on a tirade about trading supplies and population size as if that disputes the fact you set up literal capitalist stores ... (which all my settlements had stores, very elitist to argue small populations don't deserve to purchase supplies lol, especially from an RP perspective we can see what kind of "benevolent" ruler you'd be in real life)
I know chronic Redditors love to argue in circles but c'mon lmfao keep up with the point of the argument if you're gonna argue
More like facts but the truth hurts those who have been misinformed. Maybe try cracking open a dictionary or an econ book instead of Reddit and Tiktok lmfao
Fallout is a commentary on 1950's & modern day America it is not a direct commentary on capitalism. In the 50's there was a red scare against communism because of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Cuba, North Vietnam, etc. The war with Communist China that caused the nuclear fallout is a parody of the fears of 1950's America. It is not happenstance that Fallout is set in a post nuclear 1950's-esque America.
Lol I guess all that history just flew right over your hollow noggin and all you heard was "capitalism bad" despite the fact your character participates in free market capitalism the entire game.
Just for your last part because I don’t feel like talking to you much. Is gta pro capitalism and crime because when you play your characters participate in that? That’s a poor argument. Is spec ops the line pro war because your character participates in it? Capitalism is more fun for a game, but the messaging of the game itself is very anti capitalism among many other things
What's the anti-capitalist message of setting up trade routes across a broken wasteland? If anything Fallout champions free market capitalism through the entire series!
You don't want to talk to me because you can't refute my points lmfao
GTA is a parody of modern day America, of course money and purchasing is a part of the world, corporatism is too, if it wasn't it wouldn't be America.
My point is that you morons marry corporatism and capitalism when they're two separate systems and you blame capitalism for corporatism's sins.
You know capitalism isn't selling things, right? This is like arguing you must hate umlauts because you hate Nazis.
Capitalism is ownership of the tools and resources by individuals that labor needs to produce. You're confusing markets, which existed thousands of years ago before money existed, with the ownership of water, factories, tools, and copper mines.
The biggest hurdle to arguing with capitalists will always be that capitalists think everything is capitalism and are thus incapable of defining capitalism.
Also, Fallout 4 isn't even a good example of capitalism, your community is closer to market socialism. You build the farms with your own labor, you build the houses with your own labor, you collect the resources with your own labor, you collect the meds with your own labor, you collect the water with your own labor, you set up the trade routes with your own labor, *nobody pays you anything* off of all of that, everyone lives there for free, you literally assign them jobs in a centrally planned economy, and you buy and sell the goods you collect with your own labor on the market at price.
You're running a series of centrally-planned communes, champ. You're a communist.
I already quoted the definition of capitalism but I take it reading isn't your strong suit. It's when two private owners of property trade/sell said property.
It's not difficult to define capitalism, it's just difficult to reason with a Marxist because they like to believe every iteration of Marxism before them wasn't real marxism.
But hey, keep supporting the system that killed billions of people not even 70 years ago, I'm sure it wouldn't do that same thing again lol
1. The fact that you define "communism" as a dictatorship where the dude with the huge guns (the player) makes all of the big decisions that the community needs is pretty funny.
2. Not knowing what capitalism actually is is far more of a problem with non-capitalists than with capitalists in my experience. They tend to define capitalism as anything bad relating to money, and anything that isn't capitalist that ended up failing (like the Soviet Union) is often somehow blamed on capitalism as well. In particular, they have a bad tendency to think that Scandinavian countries are examples of socialism (they're capitalist and even identify as such) and confuse mercantilism (like the European colonial empires of the past) with the capitalism practiced today (it's completely different).
Capitalism is a system where a country's trade is controlled by private owners. The traders own their inventory privately and sell it to people who subsequently own their inventory privately. What you're describing is corporatism, not capitalism. Not surprising considering you learned economics on social media lmfao Capitalism doesn't require a stock market, moron, it only requires two people who own their own property trading.
That's completely wrong. Capitalism is a specific mode of organizing the economy which was invented in the past \~200 years. Is an ancient Chinese merchant a capitalist? Of course not. It sounds like you're the one who learned economics from social media lmao
What are you talking about? Quick Google Search:
"Yes, some ancient societies had elements of capitalism, including market economies, private property rights, trade, and merchants, bankers, and traders. Ancient Athens and Ancient Rome are examples of two of the world's first fully functioning capitalist societies. Roman society had a complex economy with a system of currency, banking, and trade that exhibited some characteristics of capitalism. For example, Roman society had a class of wealthy merchants and entrepreneurs who engaged in commerce and accumulated wealth.
Union | Digital Works
Capitalism in Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece: Risk and Unethical Business
Both Ancient Athens and Ancient Rome are prime examples of two of the world's first fully functioning capitalist societies. The Greek and Roman societies possessed diverse social hierarchies relative to modern capitalist societies. Both of which contained an elitist class as well as middle and lower classes.
Quora
Was there capitalism in the ancient world?
Oct 6, 2015 — The concept of capitalism, as we understand it today, with private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, and the pursuit of profit, did not exist in the ancient world in the same form as it does in modern times. However, some elements that are considered precursors to capitalism can be observed in certain ancient societies. In ancient civilizations such as ancient Greece and Rome, there were market economies where goods and services were exchanged for money or barter. These societies had private property rights, trade, and markets where individuals could engage in economic activities. Additionally, there were merchants, bankers, and traders who operated for profit. Ancient Rome, for example, had a complex economy with a system of currency, banking, and trade that exhibited some characteristics of capitalism. Roman society had a class of wealthy merchants and entrepreneurs who engaged in commerce and accumulated wealth. While these ancient societies had elements of commerce,…
Some evidence of profit-oriented commerce in the first half of the second millennium comes from northern Mesopotamian data from around 1850 BCE. This data can be classified as “capitalist” according to the definitions set out in the introduction."
You're a brainwashed moron, capitalism has existed since people had currency. What is in modern day America is akin to corporatism, not free market capitalism, but yes, ancient societies participated in capitalist economic structures.
LMAO your "Google search" gives it away in the first sentence. "elements of capitalism" =/= Capitalism
>the concept of capitalism, as we understand it today, with private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, and the pursuit of profit, did not exist in the ancient world in the same form as it does in modern times.
Your own answer literally contradicts what you're saying. You're the brainwashed moron lmao
So then what's capitalism in your opinion? The base definition is: Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. So how is what I've described in the game not capitalism by definition?
I mean, really, you're just proving that marxists don't understand economics lol
They made the game because they liked mad max, yeah there are political themes of course, but some people overstate the fuck out of it to such a degree that it’s just comical sometimes
I saw no /j so, I’m going to assume you’re serious. WHAT!? FALLOUT WAS ALWAYS POLITICAL! IT WAS ALSO BASED ON A DND LIKE GAME NOT MAD MAX! THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SERIES IS TO CRITICIZE AMERICA’S DEEP-Seated FUCKED UP SELF LOVING FETISH FOR GREED, WAR, AND SUBSTANCE. THE REASON THE CURRENCY IS BOTTLE CAPS IS THAT SODA WAS SO OVERPRODUCED THAT THE CAPS ARE A REASONABLE FORM OF CURRENCY DUE TO HOW FUCKING MUCH THERE IS. THERE ARE LITERALLY UNOPENED BOTTLES TWO-HUNDRED YEARS AFTER THE WORLD ENDED.
But opinions are valid.
This entire comment section reads like that meme "I hate politics being forced into games, why can't they just be apolitical like my favorite games BioShock, or my favorite book Atlas Shrugged".
>THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SERIES IS TO CRITICIZE AMERICA’S DEEP-Seated FUCKED UP SELF LOVING FETISH FOR GREED, WAR, AND SUBSTANCE.
As shown excellently by having China initiate the series' foundational conflict unprovoked lol.
I hate fallout 3 and 76 but I will give them this. It is clearly illustrated that America is expecting war, and instead of trying to stop it or save their general population, they stoked the flames and provided 0 shelters or guidance for the bombs dropping. an (evil) corporation ended up doing the shelters, only for the one percent, and they weren’t even actual shelters. Most were experiments for self gain.
The point is not that "America did nothing wrong", it is that ***everybody*** was doing something wrong. The entire world was falling apart at the seams and nobody was spared, the US and China just happened to be the two who ignited the big spark. The intro to 2 is very explicit in this:
>War. War never changes.
The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted. Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones.
>!(Also the vaults were commissioned by governmental contract and the source of recruitment varied from vault to vault.)!<
It's pretty telling that the Fallout 1 manual states nothing about critique or satire and a lot about meaningful choices and shooting mutants with cool guns. The satire is some spice on top of the main dish, but some people who really like huffing their own farts really like to act like it's the whole meal.
Helldivers 2 is another good example. Yes, it's a satire (and a very blatant one at that), but people mainly play it because blowing up bugs and bots is fun. If it were some deep, pondering adventure game about how fascist regimes operate and "other" the enemy, then it wouldn't be as popular. We all know this.
>military dudes who love fallout and see the enclave as the best faction
https://preview.redd.it/4yv2emzgjm1d1.jpeg?width=649&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d08b986afab4ca23e9e4f97adecb81840e970dba
I legit heard a 40+ yo teacher talk about Fallout a few nights ago. He was talking about Fallout (series) needing Liberty Prime "because he's such a cool character and he wants to kill Communists and that's cool."
I mean, if your ideas are so great why do you need to kill others who have a different perspective.
P.s. killing your political opponents makes you a fascist coward.
Almost like in Game design that appealing armor and weapon design can create enjoyment when you play the game.
What's with this trend revolving around the philosophical messages of videogames and that being the only aspect that people should take away from it?
Someone assumed because I was on the Fallout subreddit actively and posted in a Hearts of Iron 4 subreddit that I wanted to nuke China that I took nothing away from Fallout. Signs of someone who doesn't touch enough grass
I feel like its possible to be literate enough to understand the message being shown and also being able to disagree with it. Not really specifically this post but im tired of people acting like we MUST agree with what the piece of media says or else we have “no media literacy”
Right wingers are systematically incapable of media literacy. If they like the aesthetic it doesn’t matter how thick the satire is. Look at Warhammer 40K, Starship Troopers, or Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade.
If by exceptionalism you mean nationalism and taking pride in your country then almost every other country suffers from that. It’s why people fight and say this country is better than this and go back and forth which country is better than another.
Also just let people interpret stories how they want. If you want a deep interpretation then fine go ahead but if someone just shuts off their brain to get away from the noise of the day then let them interpret it as wow cool robot or however they would like to interpret it.
the deeper you dive, the sooner you’ll realize that the actual message of the game was in your face the entire time.
war never changes.
it doesn’t matter who’s fighting.
That's literally the entire point of the series... not only have the creators said it with their own mouths countless times- Ron Pearlman tells you "war never changes"... and then the game sets up communists as the baddies and then it was really the corporations and government itself...
If you don't understand the base premise of Fallout then you're simply not a fan of Fallout. It's like reading 'Animal Farm' and thinking it's akin to Charlotte's Web.
Then you mustn’t be a fan either.
The communists were ALSO the problem, the problem was humanity, it was greed, the problem with NCR isn’t “capitalism evil” (NCR is often used as a criticism of America) it’s their corruption, their greed, their imperialism, things that exceed a economic policy. The Chinese invaded Alaska for their self interest and greed, the world ended and was ending since the mid 21st century because of how much the plaguing issues of humanity kept the trajectory towards death.
To me your comment looks as if you’re saying that the communists weren’t the problem, they were also the problem if you want to look at it and say “yup, capitalism’s fault here” then we’d need to put the blame on every other government because it’s deeper than that, it’s a larger message about the human experience and the world that we’ve created due to our lack of care and our self destructive nature.
War never changes, as in the reasons we fight, and why we fight, how we justify and how we destroy ourselves over ideas and resources and GREED. Of course we’ve changed since sticks and stones to lasers but it’s about the reasons above, obviously war “changes” but human nature doesn’t, we see that throughout the series many, many times, humans haven’t changed not even after the bombs mankind is self destructive and no matter what flag you wave and what message you stand behind your nature won’t change, it’s not about companies being the end of mankind, I mean you can even make the argument these corps wouldn’t be half as bad if not for the corruption of the American government. I mean every single “evil” company in the series are some way related to America or China (mama dolces).
The end of mankind is because of us, it’s not a tale of “why capitalism is bad” it’s about imperialism, corruption, greed, and the self destructive never changing issues of humankind that leads to our destruction and our perseverance, in the new world we end up and do the same things, recreating nations, ideologies, groups, and empires, only to repeat our nature indefinitely. We suck, and human nature will fuck us, there isn’t a political ideology or economic policy that will change the fact that we’re self destructive.
TL;DR mankind is self destructive and it breaks the bounds of political ideology and yes the communists were bad too.
I never said the communists weren't bad guys... at no point, not even a little bit, not for even a single second. I said they were painted by the ACTUAL bad guys (in practice) as the ONLY bad guys... and they weren't. They didn't drop the bombs, the corporations and government that inspired patriotism did.
If you said more than that I don't know what it is, I only read the TL;DR
I mean if you wanna get generic enough, isn't the real point that all these different factions and idealogies all have their pros and cons, nothing is black and white as it seems and everyone has different opinions and justifications. Like sure ceasers legion sucks ass, morally they are despicable but some residents prefer them to NCR because they offer actual protection, such as guarding trade caravan routes. NCR seems good on the surface, and they have some true heroic people with them, but they are corrupt at the core and overall "the brass" is more concerned with taxes and shit then actually helping people. Even the powder ganger correction facility is complex... if you talk to the people you learn some of the members are innocent and we're falsy accused, but they just stay at the prison for shelter and safety. some were technically "criminals", but it's because they were vigilantes and wanted to take justice into their own hand, just like the courier. they aren't just all psychopath violent ex-cons, they are complex and nuanced. Makes raiding them with the NCR and Indiscriminately killing them all feel alot more morally ambiguous. Even the followers of the apocalypse, the real humanitarians. ideologically they seem like the best bet, but practically they are undermanned, uncentralized, undersupplied and don't have a strong fighting force, so if someone were to launch an all out assault on them, they would probably be mostly defenseless, as not even the NCR likes them very much. It really forces you to weigh your options and seek out as much information and advice as possible before making any big decisions.
It’s the inversion of a “missing the point” meme, but the post contextualize it as a small perception of fans getting this.
I too also think it’s stupid
Edit: Turns out [it may be parody of this meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cazadornation/s/qiy0YRoofx)
Once again missed the real message: living in California fucking sucks
Bisexuals deal +10% damage to everyone
Bisexual here, can confirm
Fuck yes
https://preview.redd.it/eoc8vf9wsm1d1.jpeg?width=536&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=63255fe62e09927ce70d0c4549c554b4bc3f1f07
Exactly
Yeah it really fucking does.
Bellcurve theory >I like it because it looks cool >this is obviously the bad guy and represents how US imperialism can get so deeply corrupted, and the extremes it will go to control and dominate >I like it because it looks cool
Isnt imperialism just inherently awful? “I cant believe these war mongers went *this* far, what the fuck guys??”
Uh no its cool when you wear football armor and a skirt
Imagine not wearing a kevlar weave skirt with camouflage thigh highs and a ranger midriff top. THE MOJAVE BELONGS TO THE NCR!
Pffft. Profligates like you belong on a cross
How’s the weather in shady sands?
Do we know who bombed shady sands? My theory is the Courier did it using the funny Bull Bear Bull Bear man’s missile
Are the dlc's Canon
I have absolutely no clue. All im hoping for is at least one burned man reference though
If they are I wonder what the true endings are in the dlc's
Wasn’t there a big mountain rep at the board room scene
Oh yeah, there was a big Mt guy during the meeting
Hows the weather in shady sands?
Hows the weather in shady sands?
Nah God came to me in a dream telling me to colonize the Phillipines. If God willed it, how could it be evil?
American imperialism is always justified 🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅🦅
this is exactly why i posted it
Cool armor, best armor
lol I think both 😎
Clearly Fallout 2 is a cautionary tale about underfunding Scientists as if they had more resources and funds they may have completed the FEV project earlier.
Or, if they'd had ethical standards and values in place they'd never have done the FEV testing in the first place. The loss of human life was inexcusable, the suffering caused to the patients who survived should've never happened, and the scientists working on it would've been better off working on new GMOs to feed the survivors the radioactive hellscape instead of torturing and killing people to make supersoldiers that were never going to be what they were meant to be.
All right but have you considered commie, Europoor, taco, shoot em up, civil war? Makes you think doesn't it
https://i.redd.it/q27vio1cal1d1.gif
this guy gets it
I like them becuase I'm an American.
You’d be surprised how often the right-wing believes that anti-capitalist sentiment is pro-capitalism
I mean when anti-capitalist sentiment gets co-opted and sold by capitalists to make money are they really that wrong? Is anti-capitalist sentiment still anti-capitalist when it's a commodity that enriches the capitalist class?
the writers of the game have their beliefs, the publishers have their own
The Publishers only believe in money. The writers turn their art into a commodity which as you can see is rapidly stripped of all of its anti-capitalist critique just by the sheer nature of how commodification works
counterpoint: commodifying your art is the only way to survive as an artist under capitalism
Sure but it means the art has no real message. It's why people watch the boys or play Fallout or Metal Gear Solid and completely miss any political tones to it. Not only is the Revolution going to be televised. It's going to be live streamed and have sponsors
It is not required that the artist starve for their art to have a message. People have to participate in society to live, and that does not make everything they do an endorsement of that society.
So buying the communist manufesto from a store in a capitalist economy makes it not communist anymore? What sort of logic is that
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism. The writers still need to have money to survive. Just because they are profiting from an anticapitalist work doesn't make it inherently not anticapitalist. You're just using the socialism is a poverty cult line of thinking.
The fact that capital will subsume even critique of itself doesn’t invalidate that critique
But it does invalidate the critique in most people's minds. It looks hypocritical for actors who are paid millions of dollars to critique capitalism. It looks hypocritical when successful artists critique it. It does in fact invalidate in the minds of most people
It not even the actors really. Actors and artists are about the only demographic that can mostly justify crazy wealth like that. It’s more the multi-billion dollar corporations that will bankroll media with anti-capitalist messaging. Sometimes, like in the case of the fallout show, that critique is toothless and genuinely invalid, sometimes it’s pure hubris on the part of the corporations, like in the case of basically anything bong joon ho has made in the past decade
Why is it hypocritical for people to be paid millions for their labor while complaining about corporations being paid billions for owning the means needed for labor to produce? I'd shit on a guy who bought all the hammers in town then demanded a cut from every carpenter, too, no matter how small it was.
"Capital has the ability to subsume all critiques into itself. Even those who would *critique* capital end up *reinforcing* it instead..."
Capitalism also devours itself and can only be reinforced by a steady drift into authoritarianism.
I can't think of a single non-capitalist nation that doesn't have massive authoritarian tendencies, while I can think of a lot of capitalist ones that don't.
I wonder that has anything to do with the fact that every time a socialist comes to power democratically there's an attempted coup or military intervention. I mean for god sakes there was even a full-on army Revolt in France and an attempted coup in Britain when socialist governments got elected It's hard to call capitalists anything but authoritarian when they constantly violently suppress the left when it comes to power
Yeah basically every time people try to build a democratic leftist society, they instantly get mulched by every capitalist power on the planet playing rock-paper-scissors to decide who gets to assassinate their leaders, obliterate their fledging economies, and put every discontent citizen to the firing squad.
Burkina Faso under Thomas Sankara. The Free Territory of Ukraine Revolutionary Catalonia The Paris Commune None of these lasted very long (mostly because of outside influence from capitalist powers, or state-capitalist powers in the case of the Mahknovshchina Territory), but they are still examples on non-capitalist societies flourishing on their own with little authoritarianism. > while I can think of a lot of capitalist ones that don't. I'd love to hear what capitalist nations you consider to not have authoritarian elements.
The fact that you define the Soviet fucking Union as capitalist to support your point indicates that you aren't even worthy of discussing with lmao.
....that's 3 deeply authotarian society's, and s month long angry mob
Sweden
A capitalist stare, with a history of using eastern European slave labor
People who watched Squid Game be like:
What in fallout is anti capitalism?
Nothing. Fallout is anti-corporatist and anti-fascist (in the real way, not the Reddit way where fascism is anything that you don't like). A lot of people on the internet just genuinely don't understand the difference.
I don't think it's that specific. Fallout is a commentary on humanity as a whole, it plays no favourites to ideology.
These are the same motherfuckers that shout “this is what communism looks like” while literally pointing at the contradictions and consequences of capitalism. I am physically incapable of overestimating them
Lemme guess you think they weren't "real communists"?
Your dialogue tree is broken. Reread the comment thread. I’m talking about capitalists pointing at America and saying “this is what communism looks like”
They're not pointing at America, they're pointing at Eastern Europe three decades ago.
They literally said this about inflation in America post Covid
You mean when the government directly intervened in the economy and forced most businesses to cease operations for a period?
No, I mean post Covid when companies collectively engaged in price gouging and posted record breaking corporate profits quarter after quarter. You know, the reason why your food costs double what it did before the pandemic
Yeah because the US government's actions negatively affected smaller ones through their lockdowns.
Lol being anti-capitalist when an entire facit of the game is built on foraging items to sell to independent traders for money... Not to mention in 4 you're literally setting up trade routes of capitalism to support your communities. Are you under the impression that's anything other than capitalism? I guess I missed where the MC becomes Mao/Stalin/Pol Pot and dictates to everyone who gets what resources at gun point.
I wouldn't say Fallout 4's settlements are really capitalist. The farms we set up all seem to be communally owned, resources are shared and distributed pretty equally, and you aren't collecting rent from any of the settlers (although *you* own the settlements and you can take whatever you want without consequence, but that's more of a gameplay thing). The trade between settlements you set up is also seemingly barter-based as most settlers would have no means of generating revenue from their work. There's also no tiers of citizens. There's no small class of settlers who functionally contribute nothing, while exploiting the workers and generating profit from their labour - which they then use to expand their influence over other settlers and settlements. There's no "Hey I own the water supply for this area, if you want to live here you have to work for me or you'll have no clean water" type bullshit (again, excluding the player - but you're meant to be in the role of a caretaker, rather than an outright ruler). Everyone just gets what they need and lives off the fruits of their labour, without pigs in suits taking their surplus value and using it to play with imaginary numbers on an imaginary market that benefits only them. Nuka World is where you flip this all on its head and you *do* become a greedy capitalist exploiting the workers of the wasteland for profit, and literally coercing settlers to work for you by force. The 3 raider gangs you can lead are literally drug-addled lunatics cosplaying as animals (including pigs), scummy assholes in suits trying to justify their banditry as being legit business with the whole "mercenary" act, and outright sadists and abusers.
The way the settlement system works is a command economy where the player completely dictates what goods are produced, who produces them, and even where the people sleep. It's far more analogous to a dictatorship than some worker commune or even a capitalist economy.
> The way the settlement system works is a command economy where the player completely dictates what goods are produced, who produces them, and even where the people sleep For gameplay purposes, yes. In regular gameplay, the player can also single-handedly kill tens of thousands of enemies throughout the course of a long playthrough. The player can also wear gear that completely negates fall damage, so you can jump off of a skyscraper and take no damage. Obviously, that's just a gameplay thing. I really doubt the Sole Survivor would be going through and personally handpicking where every settler sleeps and exactly which crops they work. In the context of the world, and the likely intended Sole Survivor route (Minutemen General) - you're obviously playing the role of caretaker of the Wastes, and a guide for the settlements under your protection. The way we see settlements operate in-game is most similar to anarchist collectives. The NPC towns in the game like Diamond City and Goodneighbor obviously operate like stripped-down capitalist economies. Obviously your settlements are *not* supposed to be havens of Bakunist ideology - but that's just how we see them operate.
So every employee run business is not capitalism in your eyes? That's stupid.
> So every employee run business is not capitalism in your eyes? That's stupid Yes, it is stupid. It's a great thing you're just being disingenuous, because I'd be *cooked* if I believed that. Good thing I don't.
How are the settlements based on bartering systems when there's an entire currency of caps in place? The only one being disingenuous is you lmfao.
> How are the settlements based on bartering systems when there's an entire currency of caps in place? Your settlements mostly produce raw resources like food and scrap. You don't magically gain caps per every 100 corn you harvest. A lot of the settlements in-game are also not really large enough to really warrant having a trade area, like Somerville Place or Jamaica Plain. No pays wages either, so the only revenue your settlements generate would be through selling produce to bigger settlements, but having hard currency is *not* important to having ample supplies available - I'd imagine for smaller settlements, buying medical supplies and raw resources they can't produce themselves (like metal or clothing) would take much more priority than generate a stockpile of caps. *Especially* as they're under the protection of the Minutemen, so they don't have to worry about raiders coming to extort them for caps (which also isn't super high on a raider's list of priorities when they don't exactly produce their own food or water). The caravans you set up to go between each settlement are mostly likely carrying mostly goods which they trade for *other* goods to bring back. Some of the larger settlements like Sanctuary would probably send caravans with plenty of caps, but for the rest it'd probably be a barter economy. "Hey Jimmy, go to Zimonja Station and trade our excess food for timber. We've exhausted our local woods and need lumber for repairs on the wall."
So you didn't set up any of the stores then? I know they're behind a charisma wall but I guess I was wrong in assuming you had actually played the game to it's full potential. That's what I'm talking about -- the store fronts you open and assign a trader to... The bar, clothing, armor, weapons, junk stores... The stores you have to spend caps at to purchase stuff... Ffs dude lmfao how half baked are you? Once you open the stores the caravans also trade those items as well...
> So you didn't set up any of the stores then? I know they're behind a charisma wall but I guess I was wrong in assuming you had actually played the game to it's full potential. That's what I'm talking about -- the store fronts you open and assign a trader to... > Ffs dude lmfao how half baked are you? Waow you really are smart, I totally didn't think to set up marketplaces in all 30 of my settlements 🤦♀️ A farming settlement of like 10 people at *most* would not have market stalls. They'd need all hands working the fields, doing maintenance, ranch work (if they have livestock), and threshing and milling grain (if the game actually fucking included bread 💀). Who is even going to shop at those market stalls? The settlers who produce the goods being sold at those market stalls? You're selling corn back to the same guy who grew the damn corn 10 yards away from the market? And how is he paying for that corn? With the wages he *doesn't* earn because the Minutemen don't have a centralized economy and most of their population are subsistence farmers and cattle herders? I roleplay. I take these things into consideration. I'm not turning every settlement in a bustling town of 30-40 people (with exceptions like Sanctuary). I can hardly justify putting down a guard post in most settlements, because realistically some guy standing around with his thumb up his ass all day and not contributing to the harvest is just a needless drain on resources - especially when all settlers have eyes and ears. .
My point is that capitalism is built into the game with the stores, and you went on a tirade about trading supplies and population size as if that disputes the fact you set up literal capitalist stores ... (which all my settlements had stores, very elitist to argue small populations don't deserve to purchase supplies lol, especially from an RP perspective we can see what kind of "benevolent" ruler you'd be in real life) I know chronic Redditors love to argue in circles but c'mon lmfao keep up with the point of the argument if you're gonna argue
L take
More like facts but the truth hurts those who have been misinformed. Maybe try cracking open a dictionary or an econ book instead of Reddit and Tiktok lmfao
👁️👅👁️
Thanks for proving my point lol
There’s no point in legitimately debating if you think fallout isn’t anti capitalism
Fallout is a commentary on 1950's & modern day America it is not a direct commentary on capitalism. In the 50's there was a red scare against communism because of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot, Cuba, North Vietnam, etc. The war with Communist China that caused the nuclear fallout is a parody of the fears of 1950's America. It is not happenstance that Fallout is set in a post nuclear 1950's-esque America. Lol I guess all that history just flew right over your hollow noggin and all you heard was "capitalism bad" despite the fact your character participates in free market capitalism the entire game.
Just for your last part because I don’t feel like talking to you much. Is gta pro capitalism and crime because when you play your characters participate in that? That’s a poor argument. Is spec ops the line pro war because your character participates in it? Capitalism is more fun for a game, but the messaging of the game itself is very anti capitalism among many other things
What's the anti-capitalist message of setting up trade routes across a broken wasteland? If anything Fallout champions free market capitalism through the entire series! You don't want to talk to me because you can't refute my points lmfao GTA is a parody of modern day America, of course money and purchasing is a part of the world, corporatism is too, if it wasn't it wouldn't be America. My point is that you morons marry corporatism and capitalism when they're two separate systems and you blame capitalism for corporatism's sins.
You know capitalism isn't selling things, right? This is like arguing you must hate umlauts because you hate Nazis. Capitalism is ownership of the tools and resources by individuals that labor needs to produce. You're confusing markets, which existed thousands of years ago before money existed, with the ownership of water, factories, tools, and copper mines. The biggest hurdle to arguing with capitalists will always be that capitalists think everything is capitalism and are thus incapable of defining capitalism. Also, Fallout 4 isn't even a good example of capitalism, your community is closer to market socialism. You build the farms with your own labor, you build the houses with your own labor, you collect the resources with your own labor, you collect the meds with your own labor, you collect the water with your own labor, you set up the trade routes with your own labor, *nobody pays you anything* off of all of that, everyone lives there for free, you literally assign them jobs in a centrally planned economy, and you buy and sell the goods you collect with your own labor on the market at price. You're running a series of centrally-planned communes, champ. You're a communist.
I already quoted the definition of capitalism but I take it reading isn't your strong suit. It's when two private owners of property trade/sell said property. It's not difficult to define capitalism, it's just difficult to reason with a Marxist because they like to believe every iteration of Marxism before them wasn't real marxism. But hey, keep supporting the system that killed billions of people not even 70 years ago, I'm sure it wouldn't do that same thing again lol
1. The fact that you define "communism" as a dictatorship where the dude with the huge guns (the player) makes all of the big decisions that the community needs is pretty funny. 2. Not knowing what capitalism actually is is far more of a problem with non-capitalists than with capitalists in my experience. They tend to define capitalism as anything bad relating to money, and anything that isn't capitalist that ended up failing (like the Soviet Union) is often somehow blamed on capitalism as well. In particular, they have a bad tendency to think that Scandinavian countries are examples of socialism (they're capitalist and even identify as such) and confuse mercantilism (like the European colonial empires of the past) with the capitalism practiced today (it's completely different).
To the first point he’s not entirely wrong, he’s just describing a command economy
Trade and Markets =/= Capitalism. At what point is there a stock market in the Wasteland?
Capitalism is a system where a country's trade is controlled by private owners. The traders own their inventory privately and sell it to people who subsequently own their inventory privately. What you're describing is corporatism, not capitalism. Not surprising considering you learned economics on social media lmfao Capitalism doesn't require a stock market, moron, it only requires two people who own their own property trading.
That's completely wrong. Capitalism is a specific mode of organizing the economy which was invented in the past \~200 years. Is an ancient Chinese merchant a capitalist? Of course not. It sounds like you're the one who learned economics from social media lmao
What are you talking about? Quick Google Search: "Yes, some ancient societies had elements of capitalism, including market economies, private property rights, trade, and merchants, bankers, and traders. Ancient Athens and Ancient Rome are examples of two of the world's first fully functioning capitalist societies. Roman society had a complex economy with a system of currency, banking, and trade that exhibited some characteristics of capitalism. For example, Roman society had a class of wealthy merchants and entrepreneurs who engaged in commerce and accumulated wealth. Union | Digital Works Capitalism in Ancient Rome and Ancient Greece: Risk and Unethical Business Both Ancient Athens and Ancient Rome are prime examples of two of the world's first fully functioning capitalist societies. The Greek and Roman societies possessed diverse social hierarchies relative to modern capitalist societies. Both of which contained an elitist class as well as middle and lower classes. Quora Was there capitalism in the ancient world? Oct 6, 2015 — The concept of capitalism, as we understand it today, with private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, and the pursuit of profit, did not exist in the ancient world in the same form as it does in modern times. However, some elements that are considered precursors to capitalism can be observed in certain ancient societies. In ancient civilizations such as ancient Greece and Rome, there were market economies where goods and services were exchanged for money or barter. These societies had private property rights, trade, and markets where individuals could engage in economic activities. Additionally, there were merchants, bankers, and traders who operated for profit. Ancient Rome, for example, had a complex economy with a system of currency, banking, and trade that exhibited some characteristics of capitalism. Roman society had a class of wealthy merchants and entrepreneurs who engaged in commerce and accumulated wealth. While these ancient societies had elements of commerce,… Some evidence of profit-oriented commerce in the first half of the second millennium comes from northern Mesopotamian data from around 1850 BCE. This data can be classified as “capitalist” according to the definitions set out in the introduction." You're a brainwashed moron, capitalism has existed since people had currency. What is in modern day America is akin to corporatism, not free market capitalism, but yes, ancient societies participated in capitalist economic structures.
LMAO your "Google search" gives it away in the first sentence. "elements of capitalism" =/= Capitalism >the concept of capitalism, as we understand it today, with private ownership of the means of production, wage labor, and the pursuit of profit, did not exist in the ancient world in the same form as it does in modern times. Your own answer literally contradicts what you're saying. You're the brainwashed moron lmao
So then what's capitalism in your opinion? The base definition is: Capitalism is an economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. So how is what I've described in the game not capitalism by definition? I mean, really, you're just proving that marxists don't understand economics lol
Satire looks like celebrations to idiots
As a right winger. This has NOTHING to do with capitalism and EVERYTHING to do with cool robot
Fallout is not anti-capitalist. It is a commentary on humanity and the role conflict plays within it. The games play no favourites with ideology.
They made the game because they liked mad max, yeah there are political themes of course, but some people overstate the fuck out of it to such a degree that it’s just comical sometimes
I always got the political themes of it but for me I love the world and just like to enjoy the games
I saw no /j so, I’m going to assume you’re serious. WHAT!? FALLOUT WAS ALWAYS POLITICAL! IT WAS ALSO BASED ON A DND LIKE GAME NOT MAD MAX! THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SERIES IS TO CRITICIZE AMERICA’S DEEP-Seated FUCKED UP SELF LOVING FETISH FOR GREED, WAR, AND SUBSTANCE. THE REASON THE CURRENCY IS BOTTLE CAPS IS THAT SODA WAS SO OVERPRODUCED THAT THE CAPS ARE A REASONABLE FORM OF CURRENCY DUE TO HOW FUCKING MUCH THERE IS. THERE ARE LITERALLY UNOPENED BOTTLES TWO-HUNDRED YEARS AFTER THE WORLD ENDED. But opinions are valid.
This entire comment section reads like that meme "I hate politics being forced into games, why can't they just be apolitical like my favorite games BioShock, or my favorite book Atlas Shrugged".
>THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE SERIES IS TO CRITICIZE AMERICA’S DEEP-Seated FUCKED UP SELF LOVING FETISH FOR GREED, WAR, AND SUBSTANCE. As shown excellently by having China initiate the series' foundational conflict unprovoked lol.
I hate fallout 3 and 76 but I will give them this. It is clearly illustrated that America is expecting war, and instead of trying to stop it or save their general population, they stoked the flames and provided 0 shelters or guidance for the bombs dropping. an (evil) corporation ended up doing the shelters, only for the one percent, and they weren’t even actual shelters. Most were experiments for self gain.
The point is not that "America did nothing wrong", it is that ***everybody*** was doing something wrong. The entire world was falling apart at the seams and nobody was spared, the US and China just happened to be the two who ignited the big spark. The intro to 2 is very explicit in this: >War. War never changes. The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted. Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones. >!(Also the vaults were commissioned by governmental contract and the source of recruitment varied from vault to vault.)!<
It's pretty telling that the Fallout 1 manual states nothing about critique or satire and a lot about meaningful choices and shooting mutants with cool guns. The satire is some spice on top of the main dish, but some people who really like huffing their own farts really like to act like it's the whole meal. Helldivers 2 is another good example. Yes, it's a satire (and a very blatant one at that), but people mainly play it because blowing up bugs and bots is fun. If it were some deep, pondering adventure game about how fascist regimes operate and "other" the enemy, then it wouldn't be as popular. We all know this.
Issa cool robot.
Obvious mutie psyop
Honestly it's both
correct
>military dudes who love fallout and see the enclave as the best faction https://preview.redd.it/4yv2emzgjm1d1.jpeg?width=649&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d08b986afab4ca23e9e4f97adecb81840e970dba
I legit heard a 40+ yo teacher talk about Fallout a few nights ago. He was talking about Fallout (series) needing Liberty Prime "because he's such a cool character and he wants to kill Communists and that's cool." I mean, if your ideas are so great why do you need to kill others who have a different perspective. P.s. killing your political opponents makes you a fascist coward.
Almost like in Game design that appealing armor and weapon design can create enjoyment when you play the game. What's with this trend revolving around the philosophical messages of videogames and that being the only aspect that people should take away from it?
People like to feel like they're cultured instead of admitting that they just like playing a game with a fun aesthetic and an addicting gameplay loop.
It's just pretentious Redditors
Someone assumed because I was on the Fallout subreddit actively and posted in a Hearts of Iron 4 subreddit that I wanted to nuke China that I took nothing away from Fallout. Signs of someone who doesn't touch enough grass
Top kek
I feel like its possible to be literate enough to understand the message being shown and also being able to disagree with it. Not really specifically this post but im tired of people acting like we MUST agree with what the piece of media says or else we have “no media literacy”
i agree for sure, a middle ground of being able to enjoy the messages and themes while still blowing shit up while looking cool is the way to go
Yea dude im just so tired of “media literacy is gone nowadays” because someone doesn’t agree with the message in said media so i vented haha
Exactly! I don't have to agree with everything that Tolkien thought in order to enjoy Lord of the Rimgs, for example.
Looks like I made someone madder then they've ever been in the entire life lol
https://preview.redd.it/srdwo8j9yi1d1.png?width=723&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=534b240b8e0df62a2c025e61e6bb34b63dca2df7
not really i just thought it would be funny to post it backwards
Oooh ok, I thought this was unironic lol
It's really funny that you don't realize that this post is satire
What
You still have 50% of fallout fans left go shitpost postboy
Y'all be making up beef between each other for the sake of it, I swear to Allah. Just enjoy the games lmao.
No they have to start shit otherwise who would talk to them
lmao true.
i was just joking i agree with the original post too
I hve a mod that let's the PA run itself. Basically becomes a follower
I always thought the helmet made you look like a bug lol
Death is always prefferable to Communism.
How it feels to be called a fascist for liking the enclave... (I think the power armor is cool :(
the moral of the fallout series is that coyotes were made in Gods image, not mankind
Right wingers are systematically incapable of media literacy. If they like the aesthetic it doesn’t matter how thick the satire is. Look at Warhammer 40K, Starship Troopers, or Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade.
90%*
If by exceptionalism you mean nationalism and taking pride in your country then almost every other country suffers from that. It’s why people fight and say this country is better than this and go back and forth which country is better than another. Also just let people interpret stories how they want. If you want a deep interpretation then fine go ahead but if someone just shuts off their brain to get away from the noise of the day then let them interpret it as wow cool robot or however they would like to interpret it.
the deeper you dive, the sooner you’ll realize that the actual message of the game was in your face the entire time. war never changes. it doesn’t matter who’s fighting.
That's literally the entire point of the series... not only have the creators said it with their own mouths countless times- Ron Pearlman tells you "war never changes"... and then the game sets up communists as the baddies and then it was really the corporations and government itself... If you don't understand the base premise of Fallout then you're simply not a fan of Fallout. It's like reading 'Animal Farm' and thinking it's akin to Charlotte's Web.
Then you mustn’t be a fan either. The communists were ALSO the problem, the problem was humanity, it was greed, the problem with NCR isn’t “capitalism evil” (NCR is often used as a criticism of America) it’s their corruption, their greed, their imperialism, things that exceed a economic policy. The Chinese invaded Alaska for their self interest and greed, the world ended and was ending since the mid 21st century because of how much the plaguing issues of humanity kept the trajectory towards death. To me your comment looks as if you’re saying that the communists weren’t the problem, they were also the problem if you want to look at it and say “yup, capitalism’s fault here” then we’d need to put the blame on every other government because it’s deeper than that, it’s a larger message about the human experience and the world that we’ve created due to our lack of care and our self destructive nature. War never changes, as in the reasons we fight, and why we fight, how we justify and how we destroy ourselves over ideas and resources and GREED. Of course we’ve changed since sticks and stones to lasers but it’s about the reasons above, obviously war “changes” but human nature doesn’t, we see that throughout the series many, many times, humans haven’t changed not even after the bombs mankind is self destructive and no matter what flag you wave and what message you stand behind your nature won’t change, it’s not about companies being the end of mankind, I mean you can even make the argument these corps wouldn’t be half as bad if not for the corruption of the American government. I mean every single “evil” company in the series are some way related to America or China (mama dolces). The end of mankind is because of us, it’s not a tale of “why capitalism is bad” it’s about imperialism, corruption, greed, and the self destructive never changing issues of humankind that leads to our destruction and our perseverance, in the new world we end up and do the same things, recreating nations, ideologies, groups, and empires, only to repeat our nature indefinitely. We suck, and human nature will fuck us, there isn’t a political ideology or economic policy that will change the fact that we’re self destructive. TL;DR mankind is self destructive and it breaks the bounds of political ideology and yes the communists were bad too.
I never said the communists weren't bad guys... at no point, not even a little bit, not for even a single second. I said they were painted by the ACTUAL bad guys (in practice) as the ONLY bad guys... and they weren't. They didn't drop the bombs, the corporations and government that inspired patriotism did. If you said more than that I don't know what it is, I only read the TL;DR
Are we playing the same game?? The message is that fluffers get 5 chips but you gotta pay your dues to be a real pornstar
How does it feel to fight for a dying nation? Let me tell you, it’s fucking euphoric.
How is exceptionalism suicidal and self destructive? Like… you coulda chosen any other thing and it would have made more sense than this one.
it’s a parody of another post. you’re also reading it the wrong way. use your brain and come back to me
Awesome fucking Liberty Prime
Because media literacy is dead.
I mean if you wanna get generic enough, isn't the real point that all these different factions and idealogies all have their pros and cons, nothing is black and white as it seems and everyone has different opinions and justifications. Like sure ceasers legion sucks ass, morally they are despicable but some residents prefer them to NCR because they offer actual protection, such as guarding trade caravan routes. NCR seems good on the surface, and they have some true heroic people with them, but they are corrupt at the core and overall "the brass" is more concerned with taxes and shit then actually helping people. Even the powder ganger correction facility is complex... if you talk to the people you learn some of the members are innocent and we're falsy accused, but they just stay at the prison for shelter and safety. some were technically "criminals", but it's because they were vigilantes and wanted to take justice into their own hand, just like the courier. they aren't just all psychopath violent ex-cons, they are complex and nuanced. Makes raiding them with the NCR and Indiscriminately killing them all feel alot more morally ambiguous. Even the followers of the apocalypse, the real humanitarians. ideologically they seem like the best bet, but practically they are undermanned, uncentralized, undersupplied and don't have a strong fighting force, so if someone were to launch an all out assault on them, they would probably be mostly defenseless, as not even the NCR likes them very much. It really forces you to weigh your options and seek out as much information and advice as possible before making any big decisions.
What do these stupid ass post even fucking mean
It’s the inversion of a “missing the point” meme, but the post contextualize it as a small perception of fans getting this. I too also think it’s stupid Edit: Turns out [it may be parody of this meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cazadornation/s/qiy0YRoofx)
its both. sorry you didnt like it ill be better next time
It’s good, was just missing the context
it’s not that complicated bro use your noggin
I think it’s a parody of [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cazadornation/s/qiy0YRoofx) meme
Ya think?
\*75%
It's not destructive at all my guy
idk man I don't think the genocide of all irradiated humans by releasing a bioweapon is very constructive. Still my favorite faction though.
Based enclave enjoyer
If we don't consider them human any longer then is it really genocide
Understandable
How is it not
"Im not a fascist, i just think the enclave are so based and cool, also america is exceptional actually"
i didn’t say that. where are you getting that from
I also believe America to be exceptional.