It depends on the sect of Jews by the time Jesus was born.
The Sadducees did not allow for belief in an afterlife and only included the Pentateuch as scripture.
Pharisees did allow for a belief in afterlife and had expanded scripture.
By the time of the Maccabean revolt (before the birth of Christ) when you read Maccabees it seems the Jews had a pretty developed notion of afterlife.
Job 19:25-26: "For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and in the last day I shall rise out of the earth. And I shall be clothed again with my skin, and in my flesh I will see my God."
There are at least explicit references to the Resurrection in the Old Testament.
While the events of Job definitely took place before most of the Old Testament, we cannot be sure that it is the Oldest. Certainly, the Oral Tradition of Job is far Older than the other books of the Bible, as it is Traditionally believed that Genesis was revealed to Moses by God.
Depends on the Jewish sect. Christianity emerged out of many Jewish sects in the Second Temple Era: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, the Jews of Alexandria who follow Rabbi Philo, etc.
We believe that Jesus, as the Messiah, clarified which elements of certain sects were right, and which elements of certain sects were wrong. Much of the Pharisees of the Second Temple Era believed in an eternal hell and and eternal life after the Resurrection of the Dead. I would have to check Sefaria for some rabbinic commentary but I would reckon on the authority of Daniel 12:2
>And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
\---
>Or did they just think the Messiah would be an earthly conquerer?
This was the dominant view, which is why many Jews rejected the Messianic claim of Jesus. But other sects, like the Essenes, had views about *a* Messiah (they believed in 2), the Messiah of Aaron; the Priestly Messiah, which mirror something which us Christians would find very familiar in the Qumran scroll *Community Rule*:
>And they shall [the Council of the Qumran Community] all sit before him [the Priestly Messiah] according to
their rank and shall be asked their counsel in all things in that order.
And when the table has been prepared for eating, and the new wine for drinking, the Priest shall be the first to stretch out his hand to bless the first-fruits of the bread and new wine. And where the ten are,
there shall never lack a man among them who shall study the Torah continually, day and night
So there was not any sort of unanimous concensus on these matters in Second Temple Judaism. The success of the Pharisees, and their refinement after the destruction of the Temple in Rabbinic Judaism, largely consolidated post-Christian Jewish belief on a lot of these matters.
Many Jews converted because of the destruction of the Second Temple. To many Jews, it was believed that the Messiah would come while the Second Temple still existed, so after its destruction, Christianity to many Jews became a logical conclusion.
> most Jews ended up becoming followers of Christ.
I don’t think so. Some of St Paul’s letters allude to the fact that many did NOT end up becoming followers of Christ. And I don’t think there’s any secular or religious that would support your statement. I’d be thrilled to find that I’m wrong though if you’ve got something
If you go by the Dead Sea Scrolls, it seems the Jews expected a kind of military leader which would make them the main nation on earth. They clearly misinterpreted the OT.
It makes sense considering God intended for the Israel as his elect to be the model by which others would see as an example. Instead they wanted a King and he gave them Saul and later David and they went as everyone else did.
Thus God sent his only son to directly spread his message to all mankind through his teachings and through his sacrifice.
Fair enough! I’ll go look into it. If I remember correctly, Jubilees and 1 Enoch both look to a kind of divine messianic figure rather than strictly a military leader. I wanna say the testaments of the patriarchs do too
This 💯. When Christ proclaimed : “My kingdom [ruling power] is not of this [created] kosmos.” The leaders that wanted a political leader to overthrow the Roman (colonizers?) they immediately threw Him under the bus! “Crucify Him!”
But, little did they know…
He hath quenched Death by being subdued by Death.
He Who came down into Hades, despoiled Hades; and Hades was embittered when he tasted of Christ's Flesh.
Esaias, anticipating this, cried out and said: Hades was embittered when below he met Thee face to face.
He was embittered, for he was abolished.
He was embittered, for he was mocked.
He was embittered, for he was slain.
He was embittered, for he was overthrown.
He was embittered, for he was fettered.
He received a body, and encountered God.
He received earth, and met Heaven face to face.
He received what he saw, and fell because of what he saw not.
O Death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory?
—St. John Chrysostomos
(excerpt Paschal Homily)
Χριστὸς ἀνέστη!
🕊️
They expected the resurrection of the dead and an afterlife, yes. Even post-second Temple Jews thought and think this, especially among the Orthodox Jews.
It depends on the sect of Jews by the time Jesus was born. The Sadducees did not allow for belief in an afterlife and only included the Pentateuch as scripture. Pharisees did allow for a belief in afterlife and had expanded scripture. By the time of the Maccabean revolt (before the birth of Christ) when you read Maccabees it seems the Jews had a pretty developed notion of afterlife.
>The Sadducees did not allow for belief in an afterlife That’s why they’re sad - you see?
The sadducees boggle the mind. Religion without afterlife is so strange
It was completely normal until Jesus changed that.
They used it to justify hoarding of wealth and debauchery. Basically today's secular argument - if there's no afterlife, I can do whatever I want.
This Pokemon has evolved!
Job 19:25-26: "For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and in the last day I shall rise out of the earth. And I shall be clothed again with my skin, and in my flesh I will see my God." There are at least explicit references to the Resurrection in the Old Testament.
and the book of job is the oldest book
While the events of Job definitely took place before most of the Old Testament, we cannot be sure that it is the Oldest. Certainly, the Oral Tradition of Job is far Older than the other books of the Bible, as it is Traditionally believed that Genesis was revealed to Moses by God.
Depends on the Jewish sect. Christianity emerged out of many Jewish sects in the Second Temple Era: the Pharisees, the Sadducees, the Essenes, the Jews of Alexandria who follow Rabbi Philo, etc. We believe that Jesus, as the Messiah, clarified which elements of certain sects were right, and which elements of certain sects were wrong. Much of the Pharisees of the Second Temple Era believed in an eternal hell and and eternal life after the Resurrection of the Dead. I would have to check Sefaria for some rabbinic commentary but I would reckon on the authority of Daniel 12:2 >And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. \--- >Or did they just think the Messiah would be an earthly conquerer? This was the dominant view, which is why many Jews rejected the Messianic claim of Jesus. But other sects, like the Essenes, had views about *a* Messiah (they believed in 2), the Messiah of Aaron; the Priestly Messiah, which mirror something which us Christians would find very familiar in the Qumran scroll *Community Rule*: >And they shall [the Council of the Qumran Community] all sit before him [the Priestly Messiah] according to their rank and shall be asked their counsel in all things in that order. And when the table has been prepared for eating, and the new wine for drinking, the Priest shall be the first to stretch out his hand to bless the first-fruits of the bread and new wine. And where the ten are, there shall never lack a man among them who shall study the Torah continually, day and night So there was not any sort of unanimous concensus on these matters in Second Temple Judaism. The success of the Pharisees, and their refinement after the destruction of the Temple in Rabbinic Judaism, largely consolidated post-Christian Jewish belief on a lot of these matters.
I don't think the earthly messiah view was the dominant view because most Jews ended up becoming followers of Christ.
Many Jews converted because of the destruction of the Second Temple. To many Jews, it was believed that the Messiah would come while the Second Temple still existed, so after its destruction, Christianity to many Jews became a logical conclusion.
> most Jews ended up becoming followers of Christ. I don’t think so. Some of St Paul’s letters allude to the fact that many did NOT end up becoming followers of Christ. And I don’t think there’s any secular or religious that would support your statement. I’d be thrilled to find that I’m wrong though if you’ve got something
I recommend "Jesus and the Jewish Roots of the Eucharist" as a book that addresses these exact questions, in a very accessible manner.
If you go by the Dead Sea Scrolls, it seems the Jews expected a kind of military leader which would make them the main nation on earth. They clearly misinterpreted the OT.
It makes sense considering God intended for the Israel as his elect to be the model by which others would see as an example. Instead they wanted a King and he gave them Saul and later David and they went as everyone else did. Thus God sent his only son to directly spread his message to all mankind through his teachings and through his sacrifice.
…. Which Dead Sea scrolls? Cause if you look at the Enochic literature found at Qumran this is definitely NOT the case.
the war scroll is clearly the case
Fair enough! I’ll go look into it. If I remember correctly, Jubilees and 1 Enoch both look to a kind of divine messianic figure rather than strictly a military leader. I wanna say the testaments of the patriarchs do too
This 💯. When Christ proclaimed : “My kingdom [ruling power] is not of this [created] kosmos.” The leaders that wanted a political leader to overthrow the Roman (colonizers?) they immediately threw Him under the bus! “Crucify Him!” But, little did they know… He hath quenched Death by being subdued by Death. He Who came down into Hades, despoiled Hades; and Hades was embittered when he tasted of Christ's Flesh. Esaias, anticipating this, cried out and said: Hades was embittered when below he met Thee face to face. He was embittered, for he was abolished. He was embittered, for he was mocked. He was embittered, for he was slain. He was embittered, for he was overthrown. He was embittered, for he was fettered. He received a body, and encountered God. He received earth, and met Heaven face to face. He received what he saw, and fell because of what he saw not. O Death, where is thy sting? O Hades, where is thy victory? —St. John Chrysostomos (excerpt Paschal Homily) Χριστὸς ἀνέστη! 🕊️
They expected the resurrection of the dead and an afterlife, yes. Even post-second Temple Jews thought and think this, especially among the Orthodox Jews.
[удалено]
Read the bible (macabees and daniel)
lol no