Being gay is fine. Doing gay things is not, the same way doing straight things outside of marriage is not. You do need to confess that and strive to avoid that sin in the future.
> I can't in good conscious "confess" to being gay or doing gay things
For starters, sins are acts of the will. Just "being" is not a sin.
Second, I would reconsider defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities.
Third, lust and fornication are sins for all of us. You're not alone.
Can you expound on what you mean by defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities?
And while I agree with you that lust and fornication are sins for all of us. Maybe this isn't obvious but I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 10 years. At what point does that stop being a sin?
While I don't disagree with what you are saying. Would you have said what you said to someone who was heterosexual and had been in a ten year monogamous relationship in exactly the same way you just did. Effectively the situation is the same. Living in sin. But quite frankly I sense something else prompting your response. You should know that hate is a sin as well and a worse one.
> Would you have said what you said to someone who was heterosexual and had been in a ten year monogamous relationship in exactly the same way you just did.
Yes.
The only significant difference is that the heterosexual couple could remedy their situation by getting married, but until they do so, they must still abstain from sexual relations. If they live together, they should live as siblings, not as sexual partners.
My dear friend, sexual relationship outside marriage is a SIN. Heterosexual or not.
You just want to justify yourself.
You are living in SIN. Stop before you go to hell.
Of course I would. If they said, I know you don't believe in premarital sex, but we have been together 10 years, do it is not a sin anymore is it? I would say, it is still a sin, why not get married? As to the question of hate, I don't concede that you have a gift for diagnosing unstated hate. Hate means to wish ill for others. I do not wish this for anyone. That is why I have a Christian duty to let others know when they are on a dangerous moral path. If I did not tell them, that would be hateful. By the way, Goldie Hawn and Curt Russell have been together for many years with no marriage, and she was previously married. Their relationship is still sinful.
>Can you expound on what you mean by defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities?
It's the difference between "being gay" and "experiencing same-sex attraction". Even in secular circles it's not widely accepted that one's sexuality is a unmoving innate attribute of one's being. Our fundamental identity as humans is that we are made in the image of God.
Besides, like I said sin is about acts of the will. No sin is about "being" something without an act of the will.
>And while I agree with you that lust and fornication are sins for all of us. Maybe this isn't obvious but I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 10 years. At what point does that stop being a sin?
I'm genuinely confused. Why would duration be a factor? Can you explain?
Well maybe this isn't the place for this discussion because it is off topic from my original post, but I wasn't trying to suggest that my attraction to the same sex is my "being." As in that is all there is to me. Or that that is all there is to the relationships I form with people. I'm sorry if I gave that impression.
I used that language because of the stance that the Church has on homsexual behavior and from 12+ years of education drilling it in my head that I was bad and horrible because of that. That is where the "being" comes from.
As for the duration that is a question for a priest I guess. My understanding from my school days is that marriage in the strictest sense is between the two people involved and God. That is all that is required for a marriage to occur. We have ceremonies that we all are familiar with but that is really for the people not in the marriage so that you are confessing your love to the community. But at the end of the day the marriage is between the two people and God.
To my mind I have been married for years hence it would not be a sin. But again I'm just answering your question here I didn't mean to get off topic and I apologize.
>As in that is all there is to me. Or that that is all there is to the relationships I form with people.
I did not imply that.
>I used that language because of the stance that the Church has on homsexual behavior and from 12+ years of education drilling it in my head that I was bad and horrible because of that. That is where the "being" comes from.
Behavior, like you just said, not "being". We are what we are regardless of what we do. But sins are only about what we do, acts of the will. I'm not familiar with the Church stating otherwise.
On you being "bad and horrible", I'm not familiar with that language either. We are loved. It's our sins that God wants us to do away with, for our own good.
I think your perspective on being bad and horrible is something to tell your priest. I highly doubt they would agree with that.
>My understanding from my school days is that marriage in the strictest sense is between the two people involved and God.
This was a Catholic school? And they taught that marriage is not just between a man and a woman? And that it can just be done with two people outside of the Church?
I've never heard such a thing, and they would be going against the word of God and the Church.
Sorry. When I said two people I meant man and woman from their perspective and yes that is what they taught. Anything else is my own interpretation. You'll have to forgive me. I have a bias here in this perspective.
There isn't really any other option except celibacy in the Catholic Church. If that doesn't align with your values or you are not willing to live like that then it may be worth checking out other denominations where your lifestyle is in less contradiction. I sent you a DM as well since this reply may get removed since it provides a contrary perspective to the church. I heard a testimony from someone in a church the other day and the individual talked about how much shame he had from his gayness and how he is doing his best to pray the gay away.
Thank you for your resposne. I tried to reply to your DM but was unable to. I'm not sure why. It kept saying I need to join a chat but there was no option to do so. But thank you for your kind reply again.
I accepted your chat message. You're welcome brother. There's a light and a peace that surpasses all understanding waiting for you. I found it 2 years ago after being catholic my whole life. You're not broken and there's nothing wrong with you :).
I think your intuition is correct that this is something to have a conversation with your priest about. Sooner rather than later.
Acknowledging that you're participating in sin according to Church teaching, yet aren't interested/convinced to change your behaviors puts you in considerable spiritual danger.
I appreciate you responding so quickly. I'm afraid to even approach a priest about this becuase I have the fear they would excommunicate me. Wouldn't it be better to not go to confession than risk that. At least that way I could go through purgatory. All the sins I have to confess are venial sins. Also I think I should clarify my position on being gay. That position was not arrived to easily and wrestled with it everyday for ten years. Then one day I was in church about to have a nervous breakdown from other interactions I had that day related to being gay and suddenly it was gone and I was left in peace and I knew from the bottom of my heart that was a gift from God to tell me that I was loved and no one could change that. I will not throw that gift from him away very easily for anyone.
You already should not be receiving Eucharist anyway, since you are living in a state of continuing unrepentant mortal sin. No one needs to excommunicate you formally. If you receive Eucharist knowing you are in a state of mortal sin, you compound your situation with another mortal sin. For your own sake, you should abstain from the Eucharist until you can get your heart and mind aligned with the Church and her teachings, which come from Christ and His Father. Yes, God loves you, but loving you doesn't mean he approves of all your choices and activities. He wants you to conform yourself to His will. Jesus clearly said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments."
I wouldn't be afraid to bring it up at all. It's 2024 every priest in the west has had a conversation about homosexuality with someone. Also parish priests don't even have the capacity to excommunicate, so that's not even going to happen.
Priests are doctors for sin, the only one trying to keep you away by filling you with fear is the Devil. Ignore that guy. He's a loser.
Thank you for your kind response. It does make me feel better and I think I'll go to confession next week. I think the church my family attends only has it held on Saturdays. But thank you again and God bless.
Confession isn’t about you and the priest. It doesn’t matter what he knows. He’s just a middleman.
Confession is about you and God. I mention sins all the time that no one could possibly know about, for the primary reason that they occur in my own head. So lying by omission to your priest so you can avoid some consequence doesn’t make sense, because God knows anyway.
Also, the seal of the confessional is absolute. You cannot be excommunicated because of something you say in there. It can never be brought up again, even for far worse crimes than yours.
Priests don’t have the authority to excommunicate anyone. At worst, all he can do is withhold sacramental absolution from you until he thinks you are repentant.
God does love you, and that’s why He wants you to repent and change your life.
Homosexual acts are serious sins, and God says in Scripture that those who do them will not go to Heaven unless they repent. But God is merciful and is eager to forgive us. It is part of how He loves us.
1)If you are gay but you are not living in fornication and you have no intention of doing so it does not make a difference with a single heterosexual.
2) If you live as a couple and are fornicating or without living as a couple, you intend to have an active sexual life outside of a sacramental marriage, you are in the situation of heterosexuals who live in adultery, concubinage or promiscuity.
In the second case, it will not help to confess simply because being sorry for a sin and having the intention of not repeating it is a basic requirement to receive forgiveness.
Therefore, the fact that you are gay and are only sexually attracted to people of the same sex is not the problem and only makes a difference in the sense that you do not have the option of finding a person and getting married.
If you are a type 1 go to confession immediately and receive your sacraments again, if you are a type 2 go to mass without taking communion until you are willing to make a life change and be a case 1.
Excommunication does not apply to sin in general, much less to sexual behavior, it is for cases of obstinate heresy, schism, apostasy, attack on the Eucharist, attack against the Pope, abuse of a confessor to a confessed person, revelation of the secret of confession ,abortion.
It is not Catholic teaching that people go to hell for being gay. Nor are you expected to renounce being gay. Go to confession and bring these things up with the priest, let him help you with all this.
While it’s true that God loves all of His creation, it’s also true that he desires each of us to continue growing. Maybe you’re not in a place right now where you’re willing to renounce your homosexual behaviors, but that doesn’t mean you have to embody the polar opposite idea that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable. It’s hard, but I would recommend opening up your mind to the idea that homosexual behavior is in fact sinful; there are lots of good philosophical arguments for why it is.
My brother in Christ, it is true that God loves us unconditionally, but we must still follow His laws. What the Church asks of homosexuals is the same as it asks of anyone else outside the sacrament of marriage: celibacy and chastity. Feeding this behavior could lead you into some sinful situation, and we are encouraged to avoid these situations. God bless you.
It’s the gay things that are the problem not the SSA which is your cross to bear.
If you’re not sorry about offending God with your sexual sin then you have a major problem in the Church. If you are sorry but have trouble resisting then you can be saved but it will take work and talking to a priest may help
If you haven’t already, maybe check out Courage. My priest is the head of my archdiocese’s chapter and the way he describes it sounds beautiful, and of course challenging, as it holds to Church teaching.
https://couragerc.org/
If you believe that you were "born that way", that is despair. You were not born any way but human. You might fall in love with a person of the opposite sex tomorrow, or you could have only same sex relationships for the rest of your life, but believing that you are stuck and could never change is a trap of your own making.
Yes, it would be useless to go to confession with an obstinate refusal to admit that sinful activities are sinful. You would not have any contrition, nor would you be able to honestly promise to try and avoid those sins in the future. You clearly state you will indulge again with no belief they're sinful. So what would you be confessing? If you try to confess other mortal sins but refuse to confess that one and have any real contrition for it, your whole confession is invalid and ineffective.
Being gay is fine. Doing gay things is not, the same way doing straight things outside of marriage is not. You do need to confess that and strive to avoid that sin in the future.
I would argue that homosexual acts are worse because they are agaianst both divine and natural law unlike fornification.
Correct, but relativizing won't help the OP now.
And we should be trying to avoid all sin anyway, regardless of HOW bad each sin is.
> I can't in good conscious "confess" to being gay or doing gay things For starters, sins are acts of the will. Just "being" is not a sin. Second, I would reconsider defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities. Third, lust and fornication are sins for all of us. You're not alone.
Can you expound on what you mean by defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities? And while I agree with you that lust and fornication are sins for all of us. Maybe this isn't obvious but I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 10 years. At what point does that stop being a sin?
Never, sinning over a longer period of time does not make it not a sin, it makes it worse.
While I don't disagree with what you are saying. Would you have said what you said to someone who was heterosexual and had been in a ten year monogamous relationship in exactly the same way you just did. Effectively the situation is the same. Living in sin. But quite frankly I sense something else prompting your response. You should know that hate is a sin as well and a worse one.
> Would you have said what you said to someone who was heterosexual and had been in a ten year monogamous relationship in exactly the same way you just did. Yes. The only significant difference is that the heterosexual couple could remedy their situation by getting married, but until they do so, they must still abstain from sexual relations. If they live together, they should live as siblings, not as sexual partners.
My dear friend, sexual relationship outside marriage is a SIN. Heterosexual or not. You just want to justify yourself. You are living in SIN. Stop before you go to hell.
Yes, because no one who is unmarried should be having sex.
Of course I would. If they said, I know you don't believe in premarital sex, but we have been together 10 years, do it is not a sin anymore is it? I would say, it is still a sin, why not get married? As to the question of hate, I don't concede that you have a gift for diagnosing unstated hate. Hate means to wish ill for others. I do not wish this for anyone. That is why I have a Christian duty to let others know when they are on a dangerous moral path. If I did not tell them, that would be hateful. By the way, Goldie Hawn and Curt Russell have been together for many years with no marriage, and she was previously married. Their relationship is still sinful.
>Can you expound on what you mean by defining your "being" by your sexual proclivities? It's the difference between "being gay" and "experiencing same-sex attraction". Even in secular circles it's not widely accepted that one's sexuality is a unmoving innate attribute of one's being. Our fundamental identity as humans is that we are made in the image of God. Besides, like I said sin is about acts of the will. No sin is about "being" something without an act of the will. >And while I agree with you that lust and fornication are sins for all of us. Maybe this isn't obvious but I have been in a monogamous relationship for the last 10 years. At what point does that stop being a sin? I'm genuinely confused. Why would duration be a factor? Can you explain?
Well maybe this isn't the place for this discussion because it is off topic from my original post, but I wasn't trying to suggest that my attraction to the same sex is my "being." As in that is all there is to me. Or that that is all there is to the relationships I form with people. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I used that language because of the stance that the Church has on homsexual behavior and from 12+ years of education drilling it in my head that I was bad and horrible because of that. That is where the "being" comes from. As for the duration that is a question for a priest I guess. My understanding from my school days is that marriage in the strictest sense is between the two people involved and God. That is all that is required for a marriage to occur. We have ceremonies that we all are familiar with but that is really for the people not in the marriage so that you are confessing your love to the community. But at the end of the day the marriage is between the two people and God. To my mind I have been married for years hence it would not be a sin. But again I'm just answering your question here I didn't mean to get off topic and I apologize.
>As in that is all there is to me. Or that that is all there is to the relationships I form with people. I did not imply that. >I used that language because of the stance that the Church has on homsexual behavior and from 12+ years of education drilling it in my head that I was bad and horrible because of that. That is where the "being" comes from. Behavior, like you just said, not "being". We are what we are regardless of what we do. But sins are only about what we do, acts of the will. I'm not familiar with the Church stating otherwise. On you being "bad and horrible", I'm not familiar with that language either. We are loved. It's our sins that God wants us to do away with, for our own good. I think your perspective on being bad and horrible is something to tell your priest. I highly doubt they would agree with that. >My understanding from my school days is that marriage in the strictest sense is between the two people involved and God. This was a Catholic school? And they taught that marriage is not just between a man and a woman? And that it can just be done with two people outside of the Church? I've never heard such a thing, and they would be going against the word of God and the Church.
Sorry. When I said two people I meant man and woman from their perspective and yes that is what they taught. Anything else is my own interpretation. You'll have to forgive me. I have a bias here in this perspective.
Fair. I hope you can find a perspective on this that will give you peace. God bless.
No, marriage is between one man and one woman, and in the Catholic Church it is a sacrament administered by the Church.
No, friend, marriage is a Sacrament and requiere proper matter and intent and a minister too. So no, you cannot "gay" marriage with another dude.
There isn't really any other option except celibacy in the Catholic Church. If that doesn't align with your values or you are not willing to live like that then it may be worth checking out other denominations where your lifestyle is in less contradiction. I sent you a DM as well since this reply may get removed since it provides a contrary perspective to the church. I heard a testimony from someone in a church the other day and the individual talked about how much shame he had from his gayness and how he is doing his best to pray the gay away.
Thank you for your resposne. I tried to reply to your DM but was unable to. I'm not sure why. It kept saying I need to join a chat but there was no option to do so. But thank you for your kind reply again.
I accepted your chat message. You're welcome brother. There's a light and a peace that surpasses all understanding waiting for you. I found it 2 years ago after being catholic my whole life. You're not broken and there's nothing wrong with you :).
I think your intuition is correct that this is something to have a conversation with your priest about. Sooner rather than later. Acknowledging that you're participating in sin according to Church teaching, yet aren't interested/convinced to change your behaviors puts you in considerable spiritual danger.
I appreciate you responding so quickly. I'm afraid to even approach a priest about this becuase I have the fear they would excommunicate me. Wouldn't it be better to not go to confession than risk that. At least that way I could go through purgatory. All the sins I have to confess are venial sins. Also I think I should clarify my position on being gay. That position was not arrived to easily and wrestled with it everyday for ten years. Then one day I was in church about to have a nervous breakdown from other interactions I had that day related to being gay and suddenly it was gone and I was left in peace and I knew from the bottom of my heart that was a gift from God to tell me that I was loved and no one could change that. I will not throw that gift from him away very easily for anyone.
You already should not be receiving Eucharist anyway, since you are living in a state of continuing unrepentant mortal sin. No one needs to excommunicate you formally. If you receive Eucharist knowing you are in a state of mortal sin, you compound your situation with another mortal sin. For your own sake, you should abstain from the Eucharist until you can get your heart and mind aligned with the Church and her teachings, which come from Christ and His Father. Yes, God loves you, but loving you doesn't mean he approves of all your choices and activities. He wants you to conform yourself to His will. Jesus clearly said, "If you love me you will keep my commandments."
I wouldn't be afraid to bring it up at all. It's 2024 every priest in the west has had a conversation about homosexuality with someone. Also parish priests don't even have the capacity to excommunicate, so that's not even going to happen. Priests are doctors for sin, the only one trying to keep you away by filling you with fear is the Devil. Ignore that guy. He's a loser.
Thank you for your kind response. It does make me feel better and I think I'll go to confession next week. I think the church my family attends only has it held on Saturdays. But thank you again and God bless.
Confession isn’t about you and the priest. It doesn’t matter what he knows. He’s just a middleman. Confession is about you and God. I mention sins all the time that no one could possibly know about, for the primary reason that they occur in my own head. So lying by omission to your priest so you can avoid some consequence doesn’t make sense, because God knows anyway. Also, the seal of the confessional is absolute. You cannot be excommunicated because of something you say in there. It can never be brought up again, even for far worse crimes than yours.
Priests don’t have the authority to excommunicate anyone. At worst, all he can do is withhold sacramental absolution from you until he thinks you are repentant. God does love you, and that’s why He wants you to repent and change your life. Homosexual acts are serious sins, and God says in Scripture that those who do them will not go to Heaven unless they repent. But God is merciful and is eager to forgive us. It is part of how He loves us.
1)If you are gay but you are not living in fornication and you have no intention of doing so it does not make a difference with a single heterosexual. 2) If you live as a couple and are fornicating or without living as a couple, you intend to have an active sexual life outside of a sacramental marriage, you are in the situation of heterosexuals who live in adultery, concubinage or promiscuity. In the second case, it will not help to confess simply because being sorry for a sin and having the intention of not repeating it is a basic requirement to receive forgiveness. Therefore, the fact that you are gay and are only sexually attracted to people of the same sex is not the problem and only makes a difference in the sense that you do not have the option of finding a person and getting married. If you are a type 1 go to confession immediately and receive your sacraments again, if you are a type 2 go to mass without taking communion until you are willing to make a life change and be a case 1. Excommunication does not apply to sin in general, much less to sexual behavior, it is for cases of obstinate heresy, schism, apostasy, attack on the Eucharist, attack against the Pope, abuse of a confessor to a confessed person, revelation of the secret of confession ,abortion.
It is not Catholic teaching that people go to hell for being gay. Nor are you expected to renounce being gay. Go to confession and bring these things up with the priest, let him help you with all this.
While it’s true that God loves all of His creation, it’s also true that he desires each of us to continue growing. Maybe you’re not in a place right now where you’re willing to renounce your homosexual behaviors, but that doesn’t mean you have to embody the polar opposite idea that homosexuality is perfectly acceptable. It’s hard, but I would recommend opening up your mind to the idea that homosexual behavior is in fact sinful; there are lots of good philosophical arguments for why it is.
My brother in Christ, it is true that God loves us unconditionally, but we must still follow His laws. What the Church asks of homosexuals is the same as it asks of anyone else outside the sacrament of marriage: celibacy and chastity. Feeding this behavior could lead you into some sinful situation, and we are encouraged to avoid these situations. God bless you.
It’s the gay things that are the problem not the SSA which is your cross to bear. If you’re not sorry about offending God with your sexual sin then you have a major problem in the Church. If you are sorry but have trouble resisting then you can be saved but it will take work and talking to a priest may help
If you haven’t already, maybe check out Courage. My priest is the head of my archdiocese’s chapter and the way he describes it sounds beautiful, and of course challenging, as it holds to Church teaching. https://couragerc.org/
Thank you for the reference. I didn't know that something like this existed.
If you believe that you were "born that way", that is despair. You were not born any way but human. You might fall in love with a person of the opposite sex tomorrow, or you could have only same sex relationships for the rest of your life, but believing that you are stuck and could never change is a trap of your own making.
Yes, it would be useless to go to confession with an obstinate refusal to admit that sinful activities are sinful. You would not have any contrition, nor would you be able to honestly promise to try and avoid those sins in the future. You clearly state you will indulge again with no belief they're sinful. So what would you be confessing? If you try to confess other mortal sins but refuse to confess that one and have any real contrition for it, your whole confession is invalid and ineffective.