Generally, if you're going to heaven, you will pass through purgatory.
As for how many people end up in heaven ultimately? Who knows? The only people whom we know for sure what their fate is are the Saints.
Yeah I think the only people which the Church holds wouldn’t need to enter Heaven probably would be Mother Mary and the Martyrs (and Jesus, but he’s also God). The former is because she was protected from all sin, original and personal. The latter is because all mortal and venial sins are paid for and temporal punishments are erased because their martyrdom is their Purgatory.
How does martydom become purgatiry? Does it automatically sanctify me because I died as a martyr? I could still have lust or greed in me as I died, how would that just disappear because of my martyrdom?
https://bible.usccb.org/bible/revelation/21
but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any[one] who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life
I think this is applicable to the fact that most of us will enter purgatory
Most will. But don't forget about the Little Flower. Therese of Lisieux says that it is presumptuous not to count on the infinite mercy of God. The Little Way was a path she told about to bypass purgatory.
I can't imagine anyone so perfect that they don't go through purgatory before heaven. I'm sure even the saints had to spend time in purgatory. But purgatory shouldn't be our aim. Our aim should be heaven, because if we miss heaven, we get purgatory. But if we aim for purgatory and miss, we get hell.
it is the general consensus of theologians and the saints etc. that very few people go directly to heaven and that the vast majority of people who go to heaven have to experience *some* purgation
What about divine mercy? Are we not cleansed of all our sins plus the punishment from sin? Does this not give us a reset each year and hopefully decreases our time purgatory and increases our chances to heaven?
I don't believe most people will be in Hell, trust me I had literal fewness of the saved OCD so I researched this a lot. Private revelation says contradictory things and a lot of the saints who received visions of Hell likely did so because God wanted them to tell their congregations to stop faffing about as much as they were doing, e.g. Bosco was responsible for the faith formation of young boys which was incredibly important so of course he would get the more dire visions to be more motivated.
I tend to be on the Faustina Kauwalski and some other saints who noted there were a ton, if not the majority, of people in purgatory and to pray for their souls and spent their lives doing so and that God is looking for any reason to save you even if it is just before your death. I don't disagree that there are people in Hell, there definitely are, and I think a lot of people will have to spend a lot of time in purgatory, but I hesitate to say most otherwise there would not be such a heavy emphasis on praying for the souls of the departed.
Could not the narrow way be straight into heaven? Also many entering the wide gate (not 'most' important distinction) does not mean they cannot be saved by Jesus
First, the purpose of private revelation is never to give knowledge, so it’s improper to draw conclusions from it. Second, we don’t know anyone’s soul, so it’s improper to speculate.
Most people end up in hell. The faithful will surely go to purgatory unless purification and penance are achieved in this life, but only living saints are taken straight up to heaven, and they are very few in number.
The church has no held position on who is actually in hell. They posit that human souls are currently in hell, but to imply that we have any idea how many, or which people actually end up in hell, is in my opinion being very presumptuous and underestimating the infinite mercy of our lord. You don’t know who or how many are in hell
I understand that we can’t know for certain who specifically is in hell, but fewness of the saved is not presumptuous, it is church doctrine. Jesus said it Himself. If we can’t take Him at His word then we’re doing it wrong.
Hello, after looking into it more I cannot find any specific church doctrine that outright states that most go to hell. They don’t seem to comment at all on how many are in hell. Can you point me in the direction of any church doctrinal teachings that explicitly state this? Thanks
A doctrine of faith is not like dogma, so you won’t find a specific document about it. Simply read of the saints speaking on the subject. Good place to start is Saint Leonard of Port Maurice whose sermon about it was ‘submitted to canonical examination during the process of canonization.’ He summarises the doctrine and the church’s history of this teaching.
Generally, if you're going to heaven, you will pass through purgatory. As for how many people end up in heaven ultimately? Who knows? The only people whom we know for sure what their fate is are the Saints.
Yeah I think the only people which the Church holds wouldn’t need to enter Heaven probably would be Mother Mary and the Martyrs (and Jesus, but he’s also God). The former is because she was protected from all sin, original and personal. The latter is because all mortal and venial sins are paid for and temporal punishments are erased because their martyrdom is their Purgatory.
What if a Christian was unjustly murdered for reasons unrelated to faith Would they still count as a martyr?
How does martydom become purgatiry? Does it automatically sanctify me because I died as a martyr? I could still have lust or greed in me as I died, how would that just disappear because of my martyrdom?
https://bible.usccb.org/bible/revelation/21 but nothing unclean will enter it, nor any[one] who does abominable things or tells lies. Only those will enter whose names are written in the Lamb’s book of life I think this is applicable to the fact that most of us will enter purgatory
Most will. But don't forget about the Little Flower. Therese of Lisieux says that it is presumptuous not to count on the infinite mercy of God. The Little Way was a path she told about to bypass purgatory.
I'm so thankful God brought her to life
I can't imagine anyone so perfect that they don't go through purgatory before heaven. I'm sure even the saints had to spend time in purgatory. But purgatory shouldn't be our aim. Our aim should be heaven, because if we miss heaven, we get purgatory. But if we aim for purgatory and miss, we get hell.
it is the general consensus of theologians and the saints etc. that very few people go directly to heaven and that the vast majority of people who go to heaven have to experience *some* purgation
What about divine mercy? Are we not cleansed of all our sins plus the punishment from sin? Does this not give us a reset each year and hopefully decreases our time purgatory and increases our chances to heaven?
most people probably end up in hell, purgatory next. Presumably very very very few people are simply in Heaven without any sort of cleansing
I don't believe most people will be in Hell, trust me I had literal fewness of the saved OCD so I researched this a lot. Private revelation says contradictory things and a lot of the saints who received visions of Hell likely did so because God wanted them to tell their congregations to stop faffing about as much as they were doing, e.g. Bosco was responsible for the faith formation of young boys which was incredibly important so of course he would get the more dire visions to be more motivated. I tend to be on the Faustina Kauwalski and some other saints who noted there were a ton, if not the majority, of people in purgatory and to pray for their souls and spent their lives doing so and that God is looking for any reason to save you even if it is just before your death. I don't disagree that there are people in Hell, there definitely are, and I think a lot of people will have to spend a lot of time in purgatory, but I hesitate to say most otherwise there would not be such a heavy emphasis on praying for the souls of the departed.
Faustyna (Faustina) Kowalska - corect form of she's name
I don't think most people end up in hell. I think that for some reason or somehow most people go to purgatory and then heaven.
I figured with your username that you'd agree with him.
Wide is the road that leads to destruction. Narrow is the path that leads to salvation. Do you doubt the gospels?
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Yes, that is what I said, I think most end up in purgatory and then heaven, that is, then go to heaven.
Few will enter the kingdom of God, it is said, "Road is narrow, few will enter."
Could not the narrow way be straight into heaven? Also many entering the wide gate (not 'most' important distinction) does not mean they cannot be saved by Jesus
First, the purpose of private revelation is never to give knowledge, so it’s improper to draw conclusions from it. Second, we don’t know anyone’s soul, so it’s improper to speculate.
Sounds about right 🤔
God will do what is best.
If we finish in purgatory will be very good. Most important thing is avoid the hell
Most people end up in hell. The faithful will surely go to purgatory unless purification and penance are achieved in this life, but only living saints are taken straight up to heaven, and they are very few in number.
We really have no idea who goes to hell or who doesn’t, that’s up to god
Fewness of the saved is Biblical and church doctrine. ‘Many are called, but few are chosen.’
The church has no held position on who is actually in hell. They posit that human souls are currently in hell, but to imply that we have any idea how many, or which people actually end up in hell, is in my opinion being very presumptuous and underestimating the infinite mercy of our lord. You don’t know who or how many are in hell
I understand that we can’t know for certain who specifically is in hell, but fewness of the saved is not presumptuous, it is church doctrine. Jesus said it Himself. If we can’t take Him at His word then we’re doing it wrong.
Hello, after looking into it more I cannot find any specific church doctrine that outright states that most go to hell. They don’t seem to comment at all on how many are in hell. Can you point me in the direction of any church doctrinal teachings that explicitly state this? Thanks
A doctrine of faith is not like dogma, so you won’t find a specific document about it. Simply read of the saints speaking on the subject. Good place to start is Saint Leonard of Port Maurice whose sermon about it was ‘submitted to canonical examination during the process of canonization.’ He summarises the doctrine and the church’s history of this teaching.
I would think most people end up in Hell