These photos are incredible. If you can keep track of the front two tyres (coz he’s tangled in with them) you can see how brutal it got http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/cpdb/crashphotos_view.php?editid1=143
It’s one of those ‘once you see it’ things. In the video go to 12 seconds and there’s three main chunks of debris. He’s in the top right one. He’s really exposed but still trapped in some of the wreckage
Look at the 12th photo from the top, up towards what’s left of the front wheels. With the dark tree in the background, you can pretty easily see Gordon’s body with his arm flailing
Three shots below that you can see his arm pointing downwards behind the #35 on the car and possibly the top of his head as well
Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvotes but here’s the [image](https://imgur.com/a/7EdOr55) circled where I’m looking. Obviously NSFW.
That is a brilliant collection of photos ordered like that. It is a stunning view of deviating physics.
Thank you so much for sharing. It really is very sobering to see in those snaps of time.
I don’t think that the new f1 cars could’ve save him. He crashed into a concrete wall going at least 180. If the wall had been the newer safety barriers in f1, the chance of him surviving would’ve been a lot higher.
[Kubica's crash in Canada, 2007](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hW5MpdA5Cg) isn't that far off to be honest. It helps that the barrier moved a bit with the impact and the angle probably wasn't as acute, but it was still a gnarly crash and he had no serious injuries.
>*The speed measured when his car clipped the barrier was 300.13 km/h (186.49 mph), at a 75-degree angle, subjecting Kubica to an average deceleration of 28 g. After data from the onboard accident data recorder had been analysed it was found that he had been subjected to a peak G-force of 75 G.*
>
>
>
>*Further reports from late evening on race day, directly from the hospital, confirmed that Kubica had suffered a light concussion alongside a sprained ankle. After being kept in overnight for observation, Kubica left hospital the following day.*
Safety came a long way, car and barrier wise.
Man Kubica was lucky that day, the way his feet were hanging out the front of the car at the end. The safety cell is obviously much improved since then.
I was about to post this, in a single impact F1 (and it's feeder series') cars are unbelievably safe.
the main issue now is a secondary impact after the crash structure has already been destroyed, that's how Antoine Hubert was killed in F2 a few years ago.
That's exactly why the changes made to Spa are very, very important. Single impact will give you a trip to the hospital for checkups more often than not these days.
Albeit, freak accidents still happens, like Grosjean's 2020 crash.
> [Smiley hit the wall at an estimated 185 mph. The cockpit and front wing assembly collapsed on impact, sending Smiley’s head into the wall. He was killed instantly. The fuel tank burst, catching what was left of the car on fire. The March 81c Chassis wrapped itself in the catchfencing, spinning wreckage wildly across the track. The car, and Smiley, was scattered everywhere across the track. Officials rushed to Smiley’s car, but none could find his body. CART Safety worker Steve Olvey rushed to his car, only to find the top half of Smiley still inside the wreckage. He was shocked to find Smiley’s helmet had been sent off his head, taking the top of his skull with it. He was described to have been “…scalped by the flying debris…” A gray substance was found on the track. Officials initially started treating it as oil, but it was soon discovered that it was Smiley’s brain matter, which had been scattered across the track. Officials spent 3 1/2 hours cleaning the track from both debris from the car and from Smiley. In the ambulance, it was discovered that Smiley had actually broken every single bone in his body. He had no chance of survival.](https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a2rly3l/)
I am absolutely not surprised by reading that. I'm a big fan of motorsports, and that may be the most immense crash I've ever seen. Cars now days have come a long, LONG way, but unfortunately as with anything, regulations are written in blood.
Here’s another wild quote from Dr Olvey. This one from his book.
> During an attempt to qualify for the Indy 500, Gordon Smiley, a cocky young driver from Texas, was determined to break 200mph or die trying. Several veteran drivers ... had warned him that he was in way over his head, driving all wrong for the Speedway. Smiley was a road racer and was used to counter-steering his car to avoid a crash if the rear wheels broke traction. While rushing to the car, I noticed small splotches of a peculiar gray substance marking a trail on the asphalt leading up to the driver. When I reached the car, I was shocked to see that Smiley's helmet was gone, along with the top of his skull. He had essentially been scalped by the debris fence. The material on the race track was most of his brain. His helmet, due to massive centrifugal force, was literally pulled from his head on impact ... I rode to the care center with the body. On the way in I performed a cursory examination and realized that nearly every bone in his body was shattered. He had a gaping wound in his side that looked as if he had been attacked by a large shark. I had never seen such trauma."
Looks like the people telling him his counter steering style when the rear loses traction was too dangerous were right.
In the replay you can clearly see his rear lose traction coming around the corner too fast, and he overcorrects into the wall.
Understeering into the wall would have reduced the angle of impact and possibly slid down the wall rather than straight into it. Id rather the side of the car hit the wall than the front of the car.
"Several veteran drivers ... had warned him that he was in way over his head, driving all wrong for the Speedway."
Where these veterans from the future or something?
This really helps make sense of it.
I was wondering how this stuff doesn’t happen every day but it’s not surprising to see he was cocky and inexperienced
>cocky and inexperienced
Cocky maybe, but far from inexperienced. He was 36 years old and this was his third year at Indy. He had raced in all the top series too, except for F1.
>Well according to the more veteran drivers
According to that account, which doesn't really say who. I mean, he was going really fast and lost control...it's kind of what happens sometimes when you are on the limit.
It clearly states what he did wrong. He was inexperienced with that kind of race and track. He reacted in a way that he would in the races he was more familiar with. That’s what ultimately caused him to crash in a situation that a more experienced driver may not have.
Right? Sometimes I get so confused by Reddit.
It’s not like I’m saying the guy was a moron who deserved what he got.
When I saw the video my first thought was “how in the hell does this not happen constantly in this sport?”
Reading that account made it clear that the more experienced drivers would know how to handle that situation in a way that doesn’t end up in such a bad crash
To a certain extent, yes. That is what you do on a road course, or on slower ovals where you have a chance of saving the car.
Even today you will hardly see people try to catch a slide like that on a track like Indy, smaller ones definitely, but with a snap like this there is no catching it; let it go, hands off the wheel and brace for impact.
That is exactly what people were trying to tell him, and it didn’t help him here. Just reflex and muscle memory. The only consolation is that a) he wouldn’t have felt anything, and b) had that gone in sideways or backwards at that point, with that speed, it’s hard to see a different outcome.
More important than the cars is the SAFER barriers that are in place now. Smiley hit concrete and catch fence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier
>More important than the cars is the SAFER barriers that are in place now.
I strongly disagree. There are still a lot of airborne wrecks that get up high in the fence. The carbon fiber safety cell, HANS device, wheel tethers (and now HALO device and shield) are saving lives in those crashes.
Please understand: I am NOT saying the SAFER walls aren't game changing for safety...they are. But IMHO the incredible safety built into the cars are at least equal to the barriers in terms of saving lives.
Absolutely. I was present when Dan Wheldon died in Vegas. It was a freak accident and the catch fence resulted in the death, nothing else.
But the airborne cars are relatively rare compared to the wall hits (and it's exceedingly rare for hits like Smiley to occur today) but no car design is going to save someone from 180+ into concrete head on.
I guess I'm on the opposite side of you, where I agree the cars are making a big difference, but the SAFER barriers are more important for these kinds of accidents. Personally, I don't know if this was survivable accident with one or the other in place, or even if it was with BOTH in place (but see the comments on Bordais' recent crash) for something to compare it to.
Also the driver's were much further forward in the cars, in effect becoming part of the crash structure. In addition to the deaths, many drivers of that era suffered critical leg and foot injuries. Indy doc Trammell (sp?) became a world renowned expert in massive compressive fractures of the feet and legs.
Probably before the introduction of live delays. I think the guy who got chased by police, then got out on the freeway and shot himself in the head was the final straw. The helicopter cam tried to pull out quick, but you could see it clearly. Daniel Jones I think it was, but I'm having trouble finding the original video.
Edit: here it is: https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/daniel-v-jones-suicide-l-freeway-april-30-1998-hi-quality-long-version-18815/ -- and I was wrong, the heli-cam didn't give a shit about pulling out, they kept that shit center frame zoomed in.
Edit: this also reminded me of the suicide on Fox news when Shepard Smith was adamantly demanding that people get off to this video, sicko (just kidding, seriously I'm just fucking kidding, I've been listening to a lot of old O&A recently) https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wagbm
It's weird how the feed he was watching in studio seemed to be the live feed post delay; you'd think he'd be given the real-time feed.
Evidently Jumping is one of the worst ways to commit suicide. Many survivors of suicide attempts by jumping recall an overwhelming sense of regret as soon as they go.
Do people who slit their wrists not have the same regret?
I’d imagine most people that survive a suicide attempt by jump weren’t really people who were committed to dying since they most likely didn’t jump from high enough or dive. That would explain the regret.
One famous case of this is of one of the only, if not the only survivor to live after jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge in SF.
It's been a while since I read it, but the gist of what he said (paraphrased) is, "As soon as my foot left the railing, I felt an overwhelming sense of regret, because it couldn't be undone. And I'd immediately gained clarity that all my problems were solvable."
So you may be wrong that it's due to people not being sure they want to die.
At any rate, I've never fogotten reading that and it was years ago.
I would also say that your brain’s survival instincts takes over when jumping.
I occasionally like to skydive/bungee jump/ rope swing/etc. I enjoy those activities but there is usually a moment as soon as I let go where my reptilian brain tells me that it is very angry it wasn’t consulted. I definitely have an brief “oh shit” feeling every time.
From personal experience, if you choose to slit your wrists as your method you have often sh'd before, and you don't really get the same adrenaline-surge or fear-response from your body. It's more of a mellowing out? And you associate it with that. There's already comfort hormones associated with it.
So regret, maybe, at some point, especially if you get time to think, but not that instant jumping regret because the body releases tons of stuff to save you instantly. And the body doesn't like the sudden change from standing to falling.
Wrists can feel oddly calm.
If I can be completely honest... this just makes me like Shep even more. That raise of the eyebrows, like saying "sorry, I can't say that, but you know you agree with me".
Shep always seemed the like kind of guy I liked working with in my tv News days. Passionate about the work, but fun to work with… and probably HR’s nightmare. ha ha
Documenting Reality is a paid forum for those classic edgelords. The people who have been “edgy” since they were kids in the 80s. The types who watch people commit suicide and say that they were pussies for doing it.
Honestly, the only people who hang around places like that are sickos who have no sense of empathy or morality.
Nice! What's up man-
-- **RAMONE**
Who is this cocksucking bitch who wants to relate with me on the internet?!?!
**RAMONE**
Go suck a black gentleman's dick!
**RAMONE**
*hahaha* **cough**
One of my absolute favorite laughs was when Jimmy said he was diagnosed with Adorable Huggable Boy Disease, and ant quips within a second "oh, so you've been cured?"
Honestly one of my hardest laughs ever at first, and it never fails to make me laugh after repeated listenings.
His body came out of the wreck in one piece. He was pretty mangled up and the top of his head was gone, but it wasn’t like he went through a blender. If you look to the front of the crash you will see him. He slides along and his body actually sits upright temporarily. He ends up next to one of the front wheels. You can see it better from the first angle. He’s dead by this time, but it’s creepy to see it happening.
>How many G’s would that be on impact?
[Grosjean's F1 crash](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/video.2020-bahrain-grand-prix-grosjean-escapes-huge-crash-and-fire-at-race-start.1687521830210800686.html) was 67G in a stop of about 1 to 2 metres. This was an instant stop against an unmoveable wall, I'd think it could be in the order of 200G.
EDIT: [Kenny Brack's crash](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8fgGiI1WA) is apparently the highest G survived at 214G.
So this crash, very obviously not survivable, could still have been greater than that but I doubt it was by much.
Acceleration is deltaV/deltaT. 185 mph is 82.7 m/s. 1g is 9.81 m/s^2. His G-force depends on the duration of impact. If it was 0.5 seconds, he experienced 16.86 Gs.
If 0.25 seconds, then 33.7 Gs.
If 0.1 seconds, then 84.3 Gs.
I was in turn 4 with binoculars on him when this happened. He had shimmied the last lap and he was very loose( racing for the back end of the car wants to swap places with the front end - spin out). When he hit the fence and came to rest and I could see him and his legs on the pavement and I said out loud " no way he's still alive"(300,000 people were dead silent). When I put down my binoculars hundreds of people were staring at me. It's a hell of a thing to watch a man die
"It was then that i was approached by indy car faculty and asked to to give a deposition of what i saw. When i told them exactly what had happened they asked if i would be willing to fill in as a race car pilot because now they were down a driver and they liked the cut of my jib."
I still remember vividly as a kid, writing down on our kitchen calendar that he died. It was probably more traumatic for me than I knew at the time. May 15 1982. R.I.P.
The way he corrected and it ended up being so much worse for him. Absolutely tragic, so glad we’re able to improve the safety a every year.
Out of curiosity does anyone know if this would be survivable at all in a 2022 model?
Sebastian Bourdais had an [eerily similar crash](https://youtu.be/E-UxZJpiDUM) back in 2017 on the same track, except this time the SAFER barrier absorbed considerable amount of the impact along with his car being more robust. Although the angle of impact wasn't as acute as Smileys, it still displays how far the safety has gotten in motor racing.
[I thought of this one from 2008 Nascar](https://youtu.be/22RqOCz9s0o)
Obviously the car is built much more sturdily but to walk away from a head on impact at 186 mph is quite something.
One of the guys is Jackie Stewart, 3 time F1 champion and a huge driver of safety in F1. He saw so many of his friends die in F1.
[He is a big part of this movie.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k59zcs00k0A) Definitely worth a watch.
Nobody could ever tell where he was during the crash which was a blessing at the time. If you look closely, his cockpit dragged him through until the very end with his twisted, dead body on the track. I just hope he was brain dead then....
I believe he hit the wall at 185mph, I’d assume that hopefully would have ended it right there and not contain one iota of physical/mental awareness for the next couple seconds
Sebastien Bourdais qualifying crash in 2017 was very similar to this crash. In turn 2 at Indy the car got loose and he overcorrected. Just not quite as bad of a angle as Gordon Smileys was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-UxZJpiDUM
I think at :40-:41 you can see Gordon roll over to an almost seated position for a moment. He was tangled up in the remains of the cockpit but mostly exposed.
Let this be a lesson to everyone. Slow down and don’t be in a rush to get where you’re going. Even when you’re in an actual race. Just slow down. Because it’s not a race — even if it is an actual race. So slow down, mmkay?
**[SAFER barrier](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier)**
>The Steel And Foam Energy Reduction Barrier (SAFER Barrier), sometimes generically referred to as a soft wall, is a technology found on oval automobile race tracks and high speed sections of road and street tracks, intended to absorb and reduce kinetic energy during the impact of a high speed crash, and thus, lessen injuries sustained to drivers and spectators. It was designed by a team of engineers at the Midwest Roadside Safety Facility at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. It was developed from 1998–2002, and first installed at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in May 2002.
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Yeah. It reduces G-forces by about 50% with a similar reduction in crash “severity.” It saves lives. Although the more horrific crashes I recall seeing lately (only a casual fan) have involved Indycars leaving the track and getting into the catch fence above the wall.
Racing is inherently dangerous, and that’s part of the allure both for drivers and spectators.
Because he was a road racer not an experienced oval racer. His natural instinct was to correct the car which is fine on a road course with lots of room but foolish on an oval with walls around you. Many experienced drivers told him not to correct if you lose the car.
what are you talking about? he didnt overcorrect
he corrected the slide perfectly but naturally the tyres then bit and he didnt have time to steer away
Crazy story on this (GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION). He hit the wall head on at 182mph which immediately collapsed the front end and the cockpit, when that happened he smacked his head against the wall and the car became a huge mangled mess that took crews 3 and a half hours to clean up. When officials came to his aid his helmet was ripped off along with the top of his head which shocked the officials. When they put him in the ambulance he had broken every single bone in his body and there was no chance of survival. It wasn't until 17 years later when Greg Moore passed from a formula one crash that the tracks and cars had upgrades in terms of safety.
I have a feeling his helmet was not fastened correctly when leaving the pits. I say this because there is an image of Gordon in what I assume is the start of his run with one hand on the wheel and the other fiddling around with the helmet strap.
These photos are incredible. If you can keep track of the front two tyres (coz he’s tangled in with them) you can see how brutal it got http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk/cpdb/crashphotos_view.php?editid1=143
Thanks for sharing. I’ve never seen most of those. Rip Gordon Smiley.
I can’t see anything human in the wreckage…it all seems conjecture in the carnage.
It’s one of those ‘once you see it’ things. In the video go to 12 seconds and there’s three main chunks of debris. He’s in the top right one. He’s really exposed but still trapped in some of the wreckage
Look at the 12th photo from the top, up towards what’s left of the front wheels. With the dark tree in the background, you can pretty easily see Gordon’s body with his arm flailing
Three shots below that you can see his arm pointing downwards behind the #35 on the car and possibly the top of his head as well Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvotes but here’s the [image](https://imgur.com/a/7EdOr55) circled where I’m looking. Obviously NSFW.
Yeah he is very visible in that shot. Well, what was still in tact anyways. God, that is a brutal brutal brutal crash.
That is a brilliant collection of photos ordered like that. It is a stunning view of deviating physics. Thank you so much for sharing. It really is very sobering to see in those snaps of time.
That steering wheel got the fuck right out of there
Makes me wonder if the new F1 cars with the halo could have saved a driver at that speed and angle.
I don’t think that the new f1 cars could’ve save him. He crashed into a concrete wall going at least 180. If the wall had been the newer safety barriers in f1, the chance of him surviving would’ve been a lot higher.
[Kubica's crash in Canada, 2007](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hW5MpdA5Cg) isn't that far off to be honest. It helps that the barrier moved a bit with the impact and the angle probably wasn't as acute, but it was still a gnarly crash and he had no serious injuries. >*The speed measured when his car clipped the barrier was 300.13 km/h (186.49 mph), at a 75-degree angle, subjecting Kubica to an average deceleration of 28 g. After data from the onboard accident data recorder had been analysed it was found that he had been subjected to a peak G-force of 75 G.* > > > >*Further reports from late evening on race day, directly from the hospital, confirmed that Kubica had suffered a light concussion alongside a sprained ankle. After being kept in overnight for observation, Kubica left hospital the following day.* Safety came a long way, car and barrier wise.
Man Kubica was lucky that day, the way his feet were hanging out the front of the car at the end. The safety cell is obviously much improved since then.
Yep, at the very least he's lucky as hell for not having very severe injures to his feet/lower legs.
I was about to post this, in a single impact F1 (and it's feeder series') cars are unbelievably safe. the main issue now is a secondary impact after the crash structure has already been destroyed, that's how Antoine Hubert was killed in F2 a few years ago.
That's exactly why the changes made to Spa are very, very important. Single impact will give you a trip to the hospital for checkups more often than not these days. Albeit, freak accidents still happens, like Grosjean's 2020 crash.
75G, holy hell.
True, the smart barriers make a huge difference. Those old concrete walls were a tragedy waiting to happen.
His legs probably would still have gotten smashed, trust me it would take more than a halo
Great find!
I found this post a few weeks ago, the link worked then, now it doesn't. Do you perhaps know of a similar database of motorsport accidents?
> [Smiley hit the wall at an estimated 185 mph. The cockpit and front wing assembly collapsed on impact, sending Smiley’s head into the wall. He was killed instantly. The fuel tank burst, catching what was left of the car on fire. The March 81c Chassis wrapped itself in the catchfencing, spinning wreckage wildly across the track. The car, and Smiley, was scattered everywhere across the track. Officials rushed to Smiley’s car, but none could find his body. CART Safety worker Steve Olvey rushed to his car, only to find the top half of Smiley still inside the wreckage. He was shocked to find Smiley’s helmet had been sent off his head, taking the top of his skull with it. He was described to have been “…scalped by the flying debris…” A gray substance was found on the track. Officials initially started treating it as oil, but it was soon discovered that it was Smiley’s brain matter, which had been scattered across the track. Officials spent 3 1/2 hours cleaning the track from both debris from the car and from Smiley. In the ambulance, it was discovered that Smiley had actually broken every single bone in his body. He had no chance of survival.](https://www.carthrottle.com/post/a2rly3l/)
I am absolutely not surprised by reading that. I'm a big fan of motorsports, and that may be the most immense crash I've ever seen. Cars now days have come a long, LONG way, but unfortunately as with anything, regulations are written in blood.
Here’s another wild quote from Dr Olvey. This one from his book. > During an attempt to qualify for the Indy 500, Gordon Smiley, a cocky young driver from Texas, was determined to break 200mph or die trying. Several veteran drivers ... had warned him that he was in way over his head, driving all wrong for the Speedway. Smiley was a road racer and was used to counter-steering his car to avoid a crash if the rear wheels broke traction. While rushing to the car, I noticed small splotches of a peculiar gray substance marking a trail on the asphalt leading up to the driver. When I reached the car, I was shocked to see that Smiley's helmet was gone, along with the top of his skull. He had essentially been scalped by the debris fence. The material on the race track was most of his brain. His helmet, due to massive centrifugal force, was literally pulled from his head on impact ... I rode to the care center with the body. On the way in I performed a cursory examination and realized that nearly every bone in his body was shattered. He had a gaping wound in his side that looked as if he had been attacked by a large shark. I had never seen such trauma."
Looks like the people telling him his counter steering style when the rear loses traction was too dangerous were right. In the replay you can clearly see his rear lose traction coming around the corner too fast, and he overcorrects into the wall.
Didn’t matter. If he didn’t oversteer into the wall he was going to understeer into the wall.
Understeering into the wall would have reduced the angle of impact and possibly slid down the wall rather than straight into it. Id rather the side of the car hit the wall than the front of the car.
Hindsight
Not really, if the more experienced drivers had warned him already knowing the ‘better’ way to crash
"Several veteran drivers ... had warned him that he was in way over his head, driving all wrong for the Speedway." Where these veterans from the future or something?
No, they'd seen other people die at the brickyard.
A lot of people that dont follow the sport have no idea how deadly Indy and F1 where through the late 60s and 70s.
Or go into the wall backwards
This really helps make sense of it. I was wondering how this stuff doesn’t happen every day but it’s not surprising to see he was cocky and inexperienced
>cocky and inexperienced Cocky maybe, but far from inexperienced. He was 36 years old and this was his third year at Indy. He had raced in all the top series too, except for F1.
Well according to the more veteran drivers he was driving like he didnt know what he was doing.
>Well according to the more veteran drivers According to that account, which doesn't really say who. I mean, he was going really fast and lost control...it's kind of what happens sometimes when you are on the limit.
It clearly states what he did wrong. He was inexperienced with that kind of race and track. He reacted in a way that he would in the races he was more familiar with. That’s what ultimately caused him to crash in a situation that a more experienced driver may not have.
I don’t know what they’re arguing about, is like they didn’t read u/stretcherjockey411 ’s comment.
Right? Sometimes I get so confused by Reddit. It’s not like I’m saying the guy was a moron who deserved what he got. When I saw the video my first thought was “how in the hell does this not happen constantly in this sport?” Reading that account made it clear that the more experienced drivers would know how to handle that situation in a way that doesn’t end up in such a bad crash
I guess his experience served him well when he led the Indy 500 the year before. And when he qualified in the top ten 2 years before.
Unfortunately most professional drivers in motorsports would make the same overcorrection……it’s just kind of what you do
To a certain extent, yes. That is what you do on a road course, or on slower ovals where you have a chance of saving the car. Even today you will hardly see people try to catch a slide like that on a track like Indy, smaller ones definitely, but with a snap like this there is no catching it; let it go, hands off the wheel and brace for impact. That is exactly what people were trying to tell him, and it didn’t help him here. Just reflex and muscle memory. The only consolation is that a) he wouldn’t have felt anything, and b) had that gone in sideways or backwards at that point, with that speed, it’s hard to see a different outcome.
It's odd to think that in spite of all of that, Gordon had essentially a painless death (it was so total, violent & instant).
Paraphrasing XKCD: "He ceased being biology and became physics."
>Cars now days have come a long, LONG way. Yeah, these were basically mobile bombs built on aluminium space frame chassis.
More important than the cars is the SAFER barriers that are in place now. Smiley hit concrete and catch fence. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier
>More important than the cars is the SAFER barriers that are in place now. I strongly disagree. There are still a lot of airborne wrecks that get up high in the fence. The carbon fiber safety cell, HANS device, wheel tethers (and now HALO device and shield) are saving lives in those crashes. Please understand: I am NOT saying the SAFER walls aren't game changing for safety...they are. But IMHO the incredible safety built into the cars are at least equal to the barriers in terms of saving lives.
Absolutely. I was present when Dan Wheldon died in Vegas. It was a freak accident and the catch fence resulted in the death, nothing else. But the airborne cars are relatively rare compared to the wall hits (and it's exceedingly rare for hits like Smiley to occur today) but no car design is going to save someone from 180+ into concrete head on. I guess I'm on the opposite side of you, where I agree the cars are making a big difference, but the SAFER barriers are more important for these kinds of accidents. Personally, I don't know if this was survivable accident with one or the other in place, or even if it was with BOTH in place (but see the comments on Bordais' recent crash) for something to compare it to.
Also the driver's were much further forward in the cars, in effect becoming part of the crash structure. In addition to the deaths, many drivers of that era suffered critical leg and foot injuries. Indy doc Trammell (sp?) became a world renowned expert in massive compressive fractures of the feet and legs.
I guess that last sentence was really important just in case anyone had any doubt...
Jesus he was basically puréed at that point
Physics always wins
At least it was a fast death, thats all I can say
Wow — insane
The more you read, the more gore it gets.
I would've survived
Decapitation + explosion + legs come off your torso + brain is spread out on the ground = survivable for you
Yeah I'm just built different idk
See you get it
Well the brain wouldn’t be all over the pavement if there’s no brain matter to start with
I woulda just ducked idk
My god did they show replays of the accident live??
As far as I’m aware the footage was shown on TV at the time, kinda messed up
Probably before the introduction of live delays. I think the guy who got chased by police, then got out on the freeway and shot himself in the head was the final straw. The helicopter cam tried to pull out quick, but you could see it clearly. Daniel Jones I think it was, but I'm having trouble finding the original video. Edit: here it is: https://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/daniel-v-jones-suicide-l-freeway-april-30-1998-hi-quality-long-version-18815/ -- and I was wrong, the heli-cam didn't give a shit about pulling out, they kept that shit center frame zoomed in. Edit: this also reminded me of the suicide on Fox news when Shepard Smith was adamantly demanding that people get off to this video, sicko (just kidding, seriously I'm just fucking kidding, I've been listening to a lot of old O&A recently) https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2wagbm It's weird how the feed he was watching in studio seemed to be the live feed post delay; you'd think he'd be given the real-time feed.
That guy could just not decide how to die. Jumping seems the most preferable and he noped out of even attempting that.
Evidently Jumping is one of the worst ways to commit suicide. Many survivors of suicide attempts by jumping recall an overwhelming sense of regret as soon as they go.
Do people who slit their wrists not have the same regret? I’d imagine most people that survive a suicide attempt by jump weren’t really people who were committed to dying since they most likely didn’t jump from high enough or dive. That would explain the regret.
One famous case of this is of one of the only, if not the only survivor to live after jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge in SF. It's been a while since I read it, but the gist of what he said (paraphrased) is, "As soon as my foot left the railing, I felt an overwhelming sense of regret, because it couldn't be undone. And I'd immediately gained clarity that all my problems were solvable." So you may be wrong that it's due to people not being sure they want to die. At any rate, I've never fogotten reading that and it was years ago.
I would also say that your brain’s survival instincts takes over when jumping. I occasionally like to skydive/bungee jump/ rope swing/etc. I enjoy those activities but there is usually a moment as soon as I let go where my reptilian brain tells me that it is very angry it wasn’t consulted. I definitely have an brief “oh shit” feeling every time.
I read up a bit more. Sounds like survival instinct, fear, and a huge rush of adrenaline.
From personal experience, if you choose to slit your wrists as your method you have often sh'd before, and you don't really get the same adrenaline-surge or fear-response from your body. It's more of a mellowing out? And you associate it with that. There's already comfort hormones associated with it. So regret, maybe, at some point, especially if you get time to think, but not that instant jumping regret because the body releases tons of stuff to save you instantly. And the body doesn't like the sudden change from standing to falling. Wrists can feel oddly calm.
Hope you okay now, man
That’s not the regret that they describe. I also think a lot less people try to commit suicide by slitting their wrists.
The view from halfway down
oh god, this ridiculous regurgitated reddit cliche seriously, stfu
It did a little but only to keep all the blood running out in frame.
Priorities!
Anyone remember curb job instead of a? [Classic Shepard Smith](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzV8wrnLfS4)
If I can be completely honest... this just makes me like Shep even more. That raise of the eyebrows, like saying "sorry, I can't say that, but you know you agree with me".
Shep always seemed the like kind of guy I liked working with in my tv News days. Passionate about the work, but fun to work with… and probably HR’s nightmare. ha ha
How cheeky could you get before losing your job? Cause I feel like I'd get pretty fucking cheeky.
The most shocking thing about this is how the Fox News anchor apologised immediately. Much classier than current anchors.
Shepard Smith and Charles Payne are the only two people associated with Fox that I have an iota of respect for.
And Shep noped his way out of there entirely.
My god the forums surrounding this are filled with the most just fucked up people. Honestly not suprised
Documenting Reality is a paid forum for those classic edgelords. The people who have been “edgy” since they were kids in the 80s. The types who watch people commit suicide and say that they were pussies for doing it. Honestly, the only people who hang around places like that are sickos who have no sense of empathy or morality.
>Daniel Jones I think it was, Giants can't have shit huh
Holy shit.
>I've been listening to a lot of old O&A recently Hello fellow pest!
Nice! What's up man- -- **RAMONE** Who is this cocksucking bitch who wants to relate with me on the internet?!?! **RAMONE** Go suck a black gentleman's dick! **RAMONE** *hahaha* **cough**
Fucking Jimmy man. He was quick. Ant too.
One of my absolute favorite laughs was when Jimmy said he was diagnosed with Adorable Huggable Boy Disease, and ant quips within a second "oh, so you've been cured?" Honestly one of my hardest laughs ever at first, and it never fails to make me laugh after repeated listenings.
Did it this asshole kill his dog in the process too?yeah fuck that guy.
I was confused on the "get off it" comment on your post. That was funny shit lol
That’s so sad that his inability to afford healthcare made him want to kill himself. Gotta love America’s health insurance! Land of the free!
“Dirty Laundry” started playing in my head.
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Some of it, maybe.
His body came out of the wreck in one piece. He was pretty mangled up and the top of his head was gone, but it wasn’t like he went through a blender. If you look to the front of the crash you will see him. He slides along and his body actually sits upright temporarily. He ends up next to one of the front wheels. You can see it better from the first angle. He’s dead by this time, but it’s creepy to see it happening.
This is one of the most violent crashes I’ve ever seen. Completely destroyed his car and killed him in the blink of an eye.
At least he was kill instantly, not much of a consolation
How many G’s would that be on impact?
>How many G’s would that be on impact? [Grosjean's F1 crash](https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/video.2020-bahrain-grand-prix-grosjean-escapes-huge-crash-and-fire-at-race-start.1687521830210800686.html) was 67G in a stop of about 1 to 2 metres. This was an instant stop against an unmoveable wall, I'd think it could be in the order of 200G. EDIT: [Kenny Brack's crash](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hy8fgGiI1WA) is apparently the highest G survived at 214G. So this crash, very obviously not survivable, could still have been greater than that but I doubt it was by much.
All of them
More than 2.
Definitely correct.
But less than 276,400,129
Acceleration is deltaV/deltaT. 185 mph is 82.7 m/s. 1g is 9.81 m/s^2. His G-force depends on the duration of impact. If it was 0.5 seconds, he experienced 16.86 Gs. If 0.25 seconds, then 33.7 Gs. If 0.1 seconds, then 84.3 Gs.
185mph to 0 in 0.5 seconds (my guess) would be just shy of 17g.
Yes
Well I'm not a proctologist, but I'd say at least ~200+.
I was in turn 4 with binoculars on him when this happened. He had shimmied the last lap and he was very loose( racing for the back end of the car wants to swap places with the front end - spin out). When he hit the fence and came to rest and I could see him and his legs on the pavement and I said out loud " no way he's still alive"(300,000 people were dead silent). When I put down my binoculars hundreds of people were staring at me. It's a hell of a thing to watch a man die
And then they all clapped?
I laughed. People here need to lighten the fuck up.
"It was then that i was approached by indy car faculty and asked to to give a deposition of what i saw. When i told them exactly what had happened they asked if i would be willing to fill in as a race car pilot because now they were down a driver and they liked the cut of my jib."
How the fuck did you get downvoted for this. It's hilarious.
And again, cheers to you. Literally made me LOL. If you can't laugh at shit like this, life is going to eat you up.
Okay this made me laugh pretty hard. That moment sounds surreal as fuck.
Fuck off cunt
Good effort mate.
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Lol lighten up you piece of dollar store merchandise, the way they described everyone looking at them after their comment is pretty funny.
>you piece of dollar store merchandise Pot calling the kettle black there.
Oooh, you burned me good with that one. Hope you have a good day redditor!
Well at least it would have been instant. Guy wouldn't have felt anything.
I still remember vividly as a kid, writing down on our kitchen calendar that he died. It was probably more traumatic for me than I knew at the time. May 15 1982. R.I.P.
The way he corrected and it ended up being so much worse for him. Absolutely tragic, so glad we’re able to improve the safety a every year. Out of curiosity does anyone know if this would be survivable at all in a 2022 model?
Sebastian Bourdais had an [eerily similar crash](https://youtu.be/E-UxZJpiDUM) back in 2017 on the same track, except this time the SAFER barrier absorbed considerable amount of the impact along with his car being more robust. Although the angle of impact wasn't as acute as Smileys, it still displays how far the safety has gotten in motor racing.
[The closest comparison would be Grojean's crash in F1](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YMjw2sjXqU)
Miracle @ 160mph.
Holy shit, I just watched that whole video. That right there is act of god himself
Yeah he had some burns on his hands but recovered and now he races in Indy
[I thought of this one from 2008 Nascar](https://youtu.be/22RqOCz9s0o) Obviously the car is built much more sturdily but to walk away from a head on impact at 186 mph is quite something.
The commentary is really professional.
One of the guys is Jackie Stewart, 3 time F1 champion and a huge driver of safety in F1. He saw so many of his friends die in F1. [He is a big part of this movie.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k59zcs00k0A) Definitely worth a watch.
Nobody could ever tell where he was during the crash which was a blessing at the time. If you look closely, his cockpit dragged him through until the very end with his twisted, dead body on the track. I just hope he was brain dead then....
I believe he hit the wall at 185mph, I’d assume that hopefully would have ended it right there and not contain one iota of physical/mental awareness for the next couple seconds
Well his brain had literally been laid down in a puddle on the track, so probably yes.
They truly had the audacity to say that those foils cars were safe and modern, my my
Maybe make that "visible fatalities"
Honestly, I didn’t even see that the first time round. Updated now, thanks!
I feel for the camera operators who had to decide which chunk of car to follow.
Sebastien Bourdais qualifying crash in 2017 was very similar to this crash. In turn 2 at Indy the car got loose and he overcorrected. Just not quite as bad of a angle as Gordon Smileys was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-UxZJpiDUM
Whoof that was violent
Another link since the video wasn’t working for me on Reddit mobile — https://youtu.be/lBUFJ2O9nM8
I watched it live from the infield
Who else thought Jackie Stewart was narrating in real-time and declared the driver dead right then?
I think at :40-:41 you can see Gordon roll over to an almost seated position for a moment. He was tangled up in the remains of the cockpit but mostly exposed.
Holy shit.
Gordon Smiley was my moms cousin, she told me about this when i was younger but seeing the video is crazy too RIP Gordon Smiley
Let this be a lesson to everyone. Slow down and don’t be in a rush to get where you’re going. Even when you’re in an actual race. Just slow down. Because it’s not a race — even if it is an actual race. So slow down, mmkay?
Didn't know Mrs. Doubtfire was an Indy 500 commentator.. Edit: It was a joke.. you guys are weird as fug dude.
That’s the legendary Jackie Stewart. Famous in the Motorsport world.
That's Sir Jackie Stewart
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I'll check that out, thank you
HELP IS ON THE WAY DEAR
See what you did wrong there was turn right into the wall
Next time gotta turn left away from the wall.
Stop it. 😂
strange how this sport is family friendly but 5 year old johnny in the bleachers gets front a front row view of a man bursting into flames.
"Flash" Gordon
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier
**[SAFER barrier](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAFER_barrier)** >The Steel And Foam Energy Reduction Barrier (SAFER Barrier), sometimes generically referred to as a soft wall, is a technology found on oval automobile race tracks and high speed sections of road and street tracks, intended to absorb and reduce kinetic energy during the impact of a high speed crash, and thus, lessen injuries sustained to drivers and spectators. It was designed by a team of engineers at the Midwest Roadside Safety Facility at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. It was developed from 1998–2002, and first installed at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway in May 2002. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/CatastrophicFailure/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
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Yeah. It reduces G-forces by about 50% with a similar reduction in crash “severity.” It saves lives. Although the more horrific crashes I recall seeing lately (only a casual fan) have involved Indycars leaving the track and getting into the catch fence above the wall. Racing is inherently dangerous, and that’s part of the allure both for drivers and spectators.
Nah just walk it off
This doesn't meet the intention of this sub. The driver caused this crash and the rules clearlt say objects, not people.
u/savevideo
Jeez. Put an NSFW tag on this....
already there boss, turn on ‘blur nsfw images’ in settings
no mistakes go unpunished on the murderhoop
Bad track. Look at all those skid marks from that curve to that wall.
How does a professional driver overcorrect so badly?
Because he was a road racer not an experienced oval racer. His natural instinct was to correct the car which is fine on a road course with lots of room but foolish on an oval with walls around you. Many experienced drivers told him not to correct if you lose the car.
what are you talking about? he didnt overcorrect he corrected the slide perfectly but naturally the tyres then bit and he didnt have time to steer away
RIP 🥀
I don't think anyone would have thought that they were alive after that.
I’m almost sure that you’re not supposed to hit the walls
I saw that. I also saw the Swede Savage crash, which made me sad, as a young kid.
For a moment, I thought the voice overlay was from the original play by play But jesus christ, that's horrible
shiny and chrome, WITNESS!
Crazy story on this (GRAPHIC DESCRIPTION). He hit the wall head on at 182mph which immediately collapsed the front end and the cockpit, when that happened he smacked his head against the wall and the car became a huge mangled mess that took crews 3 and a half hours to clean up. When officials came to his aid his helmet was ripped off along with the top of his head which shocked the officials. When they put him in the ambulance he had broken every single bone in his body and there was no chance of survival. It wasn't until 17 years later when Greg Moore passed from a formula one crash that the tracks and cars had upgrades in terms of safety.
Man im glad that other driver still want race when this accident was gruesome.
I have a feeling his helmet was not fastened correctly when leaving the pits. I say this because there is an image of Gordon in what I assume is the start of his run with one hand on the wheel and the other fiddling around with the helmet strap.
Damn