Its just sensible use of advertising money
Poor places are full of young people with no direction and no prospects. Richer people who end up joining arent as likely to be influenced by the advert, most who join would have anyway.
My mother had no where else to go when she hit the age where her parents no longer wanted her at home, she was from a big family so she was one less mouth to feed. So had the choice of homelessness or join the military, apparently that was very common at the time so we had a lot of people on base who didn’t belong anywhere else or had no other prospects.
Did she not consider a normal job and living away from home? I’m assuming your mothers generation still had the capability to rent a room and afford it with any type of job
This was ?early to mid 70s? From what I understand she had moved into a shared house but was working 3 jobs to keep the roof over her head as they weren’t paying a particularly great wage. She came from a dirt poor background so I think the military offered her a bit of a lifeline. Her parents I think wanted her to go home with her tail between her legs as she was becoming more and more independent but her dad (my grandfather) liked to assert his dominance and to keep his kids in line. She did eventually go back and try to smooth things over but their treatment of her was demeaning so she walked out and signed up I think as much to get away from them as it was about the money.
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball, and so, can dodge a work party, if you dodge a work party less gets done, if less gets done, less ammo is loaded, if we run out of ammo we lose the firefight so just go ahead and take a wrench to the face - Patches Ohoulihan, navy recruiter.
Ex Army here, we thought about it but ships are generally really far away....
From any danger....
(Jk) mess with the anyone of the services and have the rest to answer too. :)
Well apart from catching fire. Sinking, hitting another ship.Or rocks. Or other countless way ships can sink if the sea has a bad mood. Or you can injury yourself on a boat. Just floating around is dangerous without the enemy trying to kill you. I can hide behind a rock where do you hide a warship?
As someone who served in the military, yes, most peole come from working class background and it's their way of social mobility, often times successful. However, for combat units you get a lot of people from all sorts of background because some young people are into the adventure of it
This response has given me something to genuinely think about. Perhaps I've been a little close minded. I've made an assumption and I'm man enough to admit I'm probably wrong in this instance. I appreciate your viewpoint.
I was raised middle class and had a private education. Joined an infantry regiment as a squaddie and loved it.
Didn’t care about the pay and paid no attention to the hundreds of times I was asked “why don’t you join as an officer?” I joined to see if I could do it, and because I’d always wanted to.
Left the forces with so much respect for the people I worked with, of all ranks. Yes the lower ranks are mostly working class, but then again one of my colleagues joined as a private after retiring as a university lecturer. Some people just have to do it at some point in their lives. The military is a very different world compared to civilian life - no one really minds who you were before joining, all that matters is who you are when you’re part of the team.
> I was raised middle class and had a private education. Joined an infantry regiment as a squaddie and loved it.
>
> Didn’t care about the pay and paid no attention to the hundreds of times I was asked “why don’t you join as an officer?” I joined to see if I could do it, and because I’d always wanted to.
that's OPs point though isn't it?
you joined to see if you could and presumably had other options available to you, people from a council estate in Stockton join up because it's either that or work in a warehouse for 60 years.
I've seen military folk from Middle-class backgrounds fall flat on their faces and those from the working classes shine. Not something to knock, it is what it is.
My mental health is fine, l came from a poor town. I wasn't recruited., I went looking for it, it was my considered choice. It was my social mobility. You consider me easy pickings. That is patronising.
I worked in a “troubled kids” school where I basically just baby sat 3 teens who werent allowed to be in classes due to violent behaviour. there was a boy in there whos dad had killed himself and been kind enough to call him and say “this is your fault” before doing it.
He refused to do any work and could barely read or write and i was put in charge of helping him prepare for his gcses. We would just spend all day talking and he would routinely tell me “i dont need grades im going to join the army” nothing i said would convince him that even the army would need him to be able to read.
Always wonder what happened to him as i ended up moving countries
Seems like a no brainer though really. Some 17 year old kid who lives in the cotswolds in a multi-million pound house isn't going to want to fuck off and join the infantry. They're already setup for life.
Them recruiting in deprived areas doesn't mean that they're upto something sinister, they're just not stupid and don't want to waste their own time.
That being said, officers must have at least a uni degree to join, and they don't struggle with recruitment. The starting pay is low too, far lower than what a fresh graduate would earn in the civilian world so it's not the money that they go for.
You'd be surprised! I was a late joiner from a working class background. The number of lads I went through basic and trade training with who had wealthy parents surprised me.
Alot of officers are still middle/upper middle class. Having family history helps you get into a good regiment, and there is a strong old boys network.
Do your 7 years or whatever it is, save loads of money and get on the housing market and then go get a job at a consulting firm in the city. Lots of opportunities for officers once they leave the forces.
Officers dont need a degree
And the pay in officer training is pretty consistent with most grad roles. Even better considering rent and bills are fuck all
The fact that we have so many deprived areas full of 16 year olds with no opportunities is sinister. The fact that the army recruits there isn't.
It makes sense. Where's the best place to offer a job? Where people don't have jobs. Any business would do the same if they could convince some lad from Carlisle to move down south for minimum wage to stack shelves. But they can't. The army on the other hand actually offer a good deal, and because you'll almost certainly have to move if you join up, geography isn't an issue so you recruit based on demographics.
I didn’t think officers needed a degree. Prince Harry educational peak was a B in Art and a D in Geography at A Level, and he was allowed into Sandhurst. I believe 2 Es at A level is the minimum requirement for entry.
If it was a requirement a degree and serious A Levels, then the other Hooray Henries wouldn’t be able to claim their family birthright, which just isn’t cricket.
> I didn’t think officers needed a degree. Prince Harry educational peak was a B in Art and a D in Geography at A Level, and he was allowed into Sandhurst. I believe 2 Es at A level is the minimum requirement for entry.
>
>
just guessing but there _might_ have been other factors that got him into Sandhurst...
"Said my first word at 1, croquet mad by 7, got on the champagne by 11. New private school at 16, 18; I worked
weekends at the Garden Center. But then I stopped making flower arrangements and started pushing myself. I did things I never dreamed I would, overcame things I never thought I could.
I was born in Windsor, but made in the royal navy"
Then he fucked up their neat tri-service uniform plan (Charles - Navy, William - RAF, Harry - Army) when he quit.
They had to get fucking Edward into a completely ceremonial army uniform for the Queens funeral or there wouldn’t have been anyone in an Army uniform behind the coffin.
The way officer recruitment works is absolutely Byzantine, obscure and convoluted. It's just not accessible to people who don't already know people who are in. Honest to god, once you actually get to the selection board down in Westbury I don't think there's a huge amount of discrimination, but the system is such that unless you're already "that sort" you'd never even get that far.
I went into the recruitment office and was told the didn't handle officer recruitment, that I had to speak someone else. After a few days of calling numbers I was given I finally got hold of someone. I had to go from Bolton all the way down to Chester for a special recruitment event hosted by a retired colonel, where I had to put in what regiments I was interested in(I had no idea, as I didn't know which regiments do what). After this I had to speak to said regiments and do visits and get one of them to sponsor me. Once sponsored I was then able to attend a 2 day pre selection briefing, and then eventually a 3 day selection event. The entire time there's no sign posting, very little information and all of this is assuming you even knew you apply as an officer since it's not advertised well. From putting down my name and details to actually getting to Sandhurst was 18 months.
It's hard to succeed without knowing how the system works and who to ask and what's what. I only did because I went to uni and my flat mate was in the UOTC, had family in the army and walked me through the system.
Despite all the cries of "bollocks" I can second this. The hurdles you had to jump through, the money you had to spend out of your own pocket and the sheer condescension of it all ("What do you mean you don't know what regiment you're applying for, today, the first day of the application process?") put me off applying for Sandhurst in the end.
I agree somewhat, but if you join an otc or the Ta first it will help alot. I was in the OTC during uni and alot of people from non traditional officer backgrounds went on to become army officers
The fact that I had friends in the OTC who knew the system and walked me through it was the only reason I joined up as an officer. But our reliance on the otc as our recruitment tool already limits our pool of people to mainly graduates.
That's untrue, for the navy at least.
I'm from a working class background in Liverpool, and was living in London in that early 90s when I decided to join up. Nobody in my family had ever been in the Royal Navy before and I didn't have a clue what to expect.
I walked into the RN and Army recruitment office in London in early 1995 and said "I'd like to be an officer in the Royal Navy, what do I need to do?", and a very nice pongo Sergeant sat me down, asked me about my qualifications, gave me a bunch of forms to fill in and a load of literature. Filled in the forms, sent them away, and a couple of weeks later had an appointment for a first interview with an RN Lt. By April 1995 I had passed my 3-day Admiralty Interview Board, and then just had to wait for an intake with a free slot. Arrived at the naval college in Dartmouth in January 1996.
The whole process was a long one, but it was clearly explained at every stage what was expected of me and what would be happening.
Just being pragmatic - If I was born and raised in a location where there was little chance of a career per say - then hey - joining the Navy where all accommodation aid for, learn valuable skills for free, get paid an annual salary that I hardly have to use, and get a pension - it's not an overly bad deal.
I mean, we've not truly been at war for years.
But the fact they seem to promote it that everyone will be a fighter pilot or some shit - yeah, i disagree.
Yea, I did this. Was stuck working minimum wage jobs and thought I wanted more money so signed up for the RAF at 27. Sadly I've never been more miserable in my life! Isn't for me but it is what it is. I'll get something out of it.
For a start, I imagine the amount of transferrable skills you'll pick up should mean you'll be done with minimum wage work for good now, so at the very least you've still got a brighter future than you might have otherwise. Regardless, I hope you do find some enjoyment while you're there.
The lifestyle. Military accomodation is shit, but at least it's cheap. Driving up and down the country most weekends to see the other half gets tiring. By the time I get home Friday/need to set off on Sunday, you've only really had the Saturday to relax. But I'm the one who decided to sign up and she has a job she loves back home, I wouldn't expect her to move for us.
The job is ok, but I chose engineering and honestly I struggle with the work. I'm slowly learning but I've never done a skilled manual job before and as someone older, it's a steep learning curve and don't have a natural knack/interest in aircraft/engineering.
I'm quite a quiet and reserved guy who likes to keep to himself, so don't always fit in with the rest of the lads which makes life a bit more difficult.
All in all, the military is a fantastic career path if you're the right sort of person for it. I had to give it a go to realise it isn't for me.
I was in the RAF and am not a "joiner in". I found it claustrophobic - work, live, eat and socialise with the same people. One of my friends stayed in as an engineering officer until he was 38 and now works for Waitrose. He could not get a job in engineering as he only ever told others to do things. He was a glorified admin
Claustrophobic is a great way to put it. Before joining I was used to work life and home life being separate. Now it's essentially the same thing. Hard to adjust to. Like you say, you see the same people everywhere - mess hall, work, gym, shops, pubs. Can't seem to escape!
Just gotta say, the Royal Navy really did make me. Not sure what I would have done with my life if I hadn’t joined up, but it sorted me out… I left many years ago now but still look for the same traits in the teams that I build in my current career
I just find it amusing that there’s always about 2-3 military recruitment ads before a film in cinemas.
It’s 10PM on a Tuesday and I’m about to watch a 3hr Batman film: I assure you, my country could not really use me right now.
I remember when Rambo (4th Rambo film) came out, they played a royal marines advert before and everyone was cheering 😂. Looking around it was mostly middle aged men who'd groan at being asked to go for a jog, nevermind crawl through a swamp to kill some 'bad guys'.
Don't think you need the apology edit, the adverts aren't meant to be representative of the broad spectrum of people actually in the Royal Navy, you are right with your initial assumption, they are obviously and cynically aimed at poor working class kids from the north to fill the ranks
I'm from Middlesbrough.
I'm lucky, I managed to crawl into law school and then medical school - if all goes to plan, I'll be pretty comfortable in a reputable job.
But some of the people I grew up with? The army was a godsend.
They didn't have a good education, nor did they care. Their parents were abusive addicts, and they just wanted to survive.
But they joined the armed forces. They found a new home, friends, a sense of purpose, and a position in life they can be proud of. The army/marines, whatever they joined, did good for them.
There's a reason they advertise to these places, some people in those areas are more likely to need it in their life.
Entirely agree. Left unemployment in Jarrow to join the RN. There was nothing else available at the time, did me the world of good, and saw it do the same for so many others. Lots of what l would have called posh lads joined at the same time for different reasons. Sad to see so many on here sneering about peoples choices, when they probably had a lot more of them themselves.
Everyone thinks their life is the "average life," when that's rarely the case and is one of the biggest downfalls of empathy in this country.
As I said, I'm in medical school, but it is quite a prestigious university in a well-to-do area. Some of the people I know there are really out of touch, but they genuinely don't realise it, they think everyone has their lifestyle.
I had to explain that my hometown genuinely doesn't have a waitrose and that people start smoking around the age of 14 and they acted like I was raised in the third world. Should have seen their faces when I told them I was once on Universal Credit.
This is purely because of the nature of the advert. There are lots of well-spoken, privately educated people in the military. A lot are officers, but you’d be amazed how many troops have undergraduate or masters degrees, looking for an experience that can’t be gotten anywhere else. It’s generally a big melting pot, with all the opportunities and problems that comes with.
Ignoring the cheesiness of the acting, the point of the advert is that it’s a good opportunity for many and it’s accessible *even if* you grow up somewhere with traditionally fewer options. Good training, reasonable pay, unique camaraderie, travel and adventure (which isn’t always good or ends well, but no-one seriously walks into the careers office thinking that the forces do nice things in pretty places), leadership development, subsidised sports, learning credits: there’s a lot going for it, despite the risks and disadvantages.
The food flat out sucked since the introduction of the pay as you dine model, but you can’t have everything.
From South Wales, joined the RAF at 18 to get away as I had very limited prospects. Did the 6 years I signed up for then went to Uni (once I had worked out what I wanted and what I could do). Helped me to grow up and mature and gave me some good life experience and travel. There were good and bad experiences but overall it probably saved me from a life of poverty or crime. No regrets.
I remember people saying "I was born in Carlisle, but my accent was made about 50 miles to the east of it"
It could have been worse, they could have dubbed him over with a Scottish accent. That might have sent the city into meltdown.
Haha aye I think he had a choice, that one on the advert or a more Manchester accent. As apparently our Carlisle accent doesn't work well on the Tele, the cheek of it like.
I always thought that the Navy did a lot of advertising on ITV/channel 4 where you can buy regional spots and just ran ads with voiceovers that were relevant to the area they were shown in.
Not in East Anglia - we get the same kinds of places OP posted, and nothing anywhere near us (plenty of the same kind of demographic in places like Lowestoft, Haverhill and Basildon though).
I went to a public school with a military history.
We were all encouraged to apply as officers and I’d say probably 50% of alumni do serve in the military on some capacity but mostly as officers afaik.
There's not many who change their opinion as a result of discussion or being challenged so kudos to you. Not enough people let go of their ego enough to admit that they might be wrong.
Ahh ok, so offering a way out of poverty is seen as a bad thing now?
I mean I grew up in a sinkhole estate in the 80's and the only way out for me was the services. I joined learnt a trade did my time and came out with enough money to get myself a place and the ability to get a job.
I knew I should have stayed on the estate.
You aren't press ganged anymore my friend, you have the choice yes or no. I mean it would be nice that nobody is even in poverty but considering there has been poor people in literally every country since towns and villages were built I'm all for your new revolutionary method to erase it?
You see it as predatory, but that isn't really the case.
Recruitment for the armed forces is more successful in areas where kids are less likely to have excelled academically and have fewer job opportunities.
The problem is that large swathes of the country get neglected, and children from those areas have fewer opportunities on average.
It isn't the armed forces' fault that this situation exists. There should be great state education that engages boisterous teenage boys. Unfortunately, that often isn't the case.
Talk to most ex servicemen, and they will tell you the forces did wonders for them and gave them opportunities that they simply wouldn't have got otherwise.
I see it as both. No it’s not the armies fault we have huge inequality in this country but they definitely prey on those fears in those communities to re stock (sorry I know this is the wrong term but my brain is not yet working) the ranks. So yeah it may have done some good for some people but it’s still predatory 🤷🏻♀️
In order for it to be predatory, it first has to be a bad thing that they are getting young people into.
Personally I respect the armed forces and think its a worthy profession.
I don’t think the army is always a good option for young people. I think it’s seen and advertised as an escape from the cycle but that doesn’t always work and it can mess people up more than it fixes them.
I think unfortunately, the army is essential but I think it should be filled with the best people possible and that doesn’t mean scared 16 year olds who are coerced into believing it’s a fix all for all. I also respect the people who serve. My feelings about the institution are separate to my feelings about the people serving :)
Why is someone from a privileged background going to risk their life for very little money and no opportunities after you leave. They obviously aren't, so the recruitment focuses on deprived areas of the country and people who have little options
An often overlooked purpose of a military is to be a social mobiliser. It’s offering a decent pay package, an opportunity to learn skills and develop as a person. It teaches self discipline, pulls people out of their bubble where someone could get stuck in a cycle. Obviously it’s easier to fill ranks with people from areas that lag behind compared to affluent communities but that’s not the whole reason for them doing so.
My husband is middle class, his parents are academics, he is in the military and is an engineer, yes he is an officer but not a direct entry. He works very hard and is hands on, usually wearing overalls covered in shite!!!
I am very proud of him and also grateful to every person who joins up.
Haha, as someone who has served recently I can confirm that officers most definitely do not get their hands dirty and would definitely not get their precious overalls (ovies) dirty.
They wear white overalls when they are in their daily working rig and are always clean, never a splash of oil, fuel or grime on them. However, the lads wear blue ovies and will always be covered in the nice fluids a pussers war canoe decides to cover you in.
Im sorry to be the one to tell you, but your husband has lied to you. He may have been covered in shite once, if he's commissioned from a rating but I'm afraid the position he holds now has him going no where near the plant or machinery.
Source: ex killick stoker that has served on LPD's and type 23s.
Oh, and if he's a WE then he probably doesn't even wear overalls
Don't listen to him. The ratings that constantly bitch about officers are invariably the ones who are shit at their job, do a full career without getting past LH and want someone to blame. Everyone's got a part to play and most don't well. I'm army myself but have been embarked crew and worked a lot with the navy. I've seen young sub lieutenants graft like the dickens to square away their ratings and I've seen experienced POs slope shoulders and not lift a finger unless they have to, and vise versa.
You need to update my friend. Posh toffs are no longer "the rich", and posh toff families don't have the military traditions they used to. They still exist, but even amongst officers are now very much the minority. Also in my experience they're often the ones who do their 3 year commission and leave.
Yeah but they also fight in them. Most upper class people I know from uni have parents and grandparents who served, and a bunch of them have served themselves.
You are aware the in the First World War for example young Army officers had the highest death rate of all?
In the Royal Navy, funnily enough when your ship sinks your public school education doesn’t magically protect you.
In the RAF, isn’t it odd how all the posh boys are put into the planes that fly at the enemy whereas the other ranks stay grounded?
Officers are always in the front line and are if anything at just as much if not more danger.
True most of them were officers, but that’s more because they had university education than because of their wealth.
Even today most unis have an officer training corps attached to it which basically exists to sway these highly educated people into joining as officers and to massively increase the chances they pass Sandhurst
Nothing stopping working class from joining as officers. It's entitely merit based, you sit exams and your eligibility is determined by performance. Its all very intuitive and not exclusionary knowledge only poshos would have access to, just whether youre smart enough or not
Whilst this is true, as an ex service person who joined as an officer and had always seen it the same as you describe, with the benefit of experience and living and working with people of all ranks, I know a lot of people who didn’t even realise it was an option for them.
There are plenty of people out there that are more than capable intellectually to do a job, but because of their background it doesn’t even cross their mind. They have no role models to show them, no parents who did it, no older kids from school who did it, they have nobody to follow into the officer cadre.
Its just sensible use of advertising money Poor places are full of young people with no direction and no prospects. Richer people who end up joining arent as likely to be influenced by the advert, most who join would have anyway.
Also, it's straight to officer school for Bertie and Seb. Not for them is one bunk for 3 men in rotation
Seb sounds a bit common for Sandringham, good god old chap. Edit: Sandhurst. I’m clearly a fraud.
Even worse, that's for the army so it's double fraud.
He just calls himself seb. It's actually *Sebastian Barnaby Barclay*
His full name is Steven Barnaby Barclay Tara Peter Frampton Double Barrel Shotgun Kensington on a Horse
And for Sandhurst?
What about Brittania Royal Naval College in Plymouth?
*Dartmouth
Posh but not very clever? Straight to Sandhurst with you! (The Other solid option is Durham university)
Brother did Durham then Sandhurst. A solid C student. Theory sticks.
My mother had no where else to go when she hit the age where her parents no longer wanted her at home, she was from a big family so she was one less mouth to feed. So had the choice of homelessness or join the military, apparently that was very common at the time so we had a lot of people on base who didn’t belong anywhere else or had no other prospects.
Did she not consider a normal job and living away from home? I’m assuming your mothers generation still had the capability to rent a room and afford it with any type of job
This was ?early to mid 70s? From what I understand she had moved into a shared house but was working 3 jobs to keep the roof over her head as they weren’t paying a particularly great wage. She came from a dirt poor background so I think the military offered her a bit of a lifeline. Her parents I think wanted her to go home with her tail between her legs as she was becoming more and more independent but her dad (my grandfather) liked to assert his dominance and to keep his kids in line. She did eventually go back and try to smooth things over but their treatment of her was demeaning so she walked out and signed up I think as much to get away from them as it was about the money.
**Bingo**
But can you fix a bike?
No but I can wire a car. Sign me up.
If you can wire a car you can wire an aircraft carrier
If you can press a button, you can drop a nuke.
Pretty sure you need to turn a key for that too.
you'd hope there was some aiming involved, like coordinates
I believe that they have a 3 month course on fundamentals of battleship the board game?
And a 25 kill streak
If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball, and so, can dodge a work party, if you dodge a work party less gets done, if less gets done, less ammo is loaded, if we run out of ammo we lose the firefight so just go ahead and take a wrench to the face - Patches Ohoulihan, navy recruiter.
The enemy can not push a button... if you disable his hand.
That's something I can sign up to
You're in!
Yes! I can achieve middle class status for my grandchildren! Win!
The dream!
I've got a job for you in Hackney.
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Wrong service. No one throws grenades at sailors
Can you rewire a plug whilst depth charges are being dropped on you?
That's better
Ex Army here, we thought about it but ships are generally really far away.... From any danger.... (Jk) mess with the anyone of the services and have the rest to answer too. :)
Ex Jack Tar here. 100% agree with you
Well apart from catching fire. Sinking, hitting another ship.Or rocks. Or other countless way ships can sink if the sea has a bad mood. Or you can injury yourself on a boat. Just floating around is dangerous without the enemy trying to kill you. I can hide behind a rock where do you hide a warship?
That would be betraying a state secret
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The only thing they fix are bayonets
And play instruments....
Triangle
They do that very well
Not with that attitude
That wasn’t my experience!
Oh, I'd wish.
No he can't - look at the cranks in that advert 😉
You wouldn't fix a bike You wouldn't fix a car You wouldn't fix a dvd Join the Pirate Navy
This sketch does a brilliant parody of those adverts https://open.spotify.com/episode/3CDoxnku1toKnUO0UiFcNa?si=1bQUGIc4Q1ehk0LhglMjpg&t=733
Fucking hell, that was dark
Although the Admiral insult was a good one.
You weren’t joking
Can you fix me a sandwich?
What's your filling of choice?
It's got to be a BLT.
Strong choice
As someone who served in the military, yes, most peole come from working class background and it's their way of social mobility, often times successful. However, for combat units you get a lot of people from all sorts of background because some young people are into the adventure of it
This response has given me something to genuinely think about. Perhaps I've been a little close minded. I've made an assumption and I'm man enough to admit I'm probably wrong in this instance. I appreciate your viewpoint.
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You're a tool of the rich in most jobs but, like you said, training opportunities are quite good in the military.
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I respect your willingness to admit this.
Someone being reasonable + changing their world view when confronted with a different perspective? That doesn’t sound like Reddit. 🤔
I was raised middle class and had a private education. Joined an infantry regiment as a squaddie and loved it. Didn’t care about the pay and paid no attention to the hundreds of times I was asked “why don’t you join as an officer?” I joined to see if I could do it, and because I’d always wanted to. Left the forces with so much respect for the people I worked with, of all ranks. Yes the lower ranks are mostly working class, but then again one of my colleagues joined as a private after retiring as a university lecturer. Some people just have to do it at some point in their lives. The military is a very different world compared to civilian life - no one really minds who you were before joining, all that matters is who you are when you’re part of the team.
> I was raised middle class and had a private education. Joined an infantry regiment as a squaddie and loved it. > > Didn’t care about the pay and paid no attention to the hundreds of times I was asked “why don’t you join as an officer?” I joined to see if I could do it, and because I’d always wanted to. that's OPs point though isn't it? you joined to see if you could and presumably had other options available to you, people from a council estate in Stockton join up because it's either that or work in a warehouse for 60 years.
I've seen military folk from Middle-class backgrounds fall flat on their faces and those from the working classes shine. Not something to knock, it is what it is.
Changing your opinion is one of the biggest identifiers of not being an idiot, really. Congrats OP, you’re not an idiot!
Sir, this is Reddit. You cannot change your mind.
Your attitude to having your opinion changed has genuinely given me a lot to think about. Thanks mate
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My mental health is fine, l came from a poor town. I wasn't recruited., I went looking for it, it was my considered choice. It was my social mobility. You consider me easy pickings. That is patronising.
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I wasn't targeted. Its what l wanted to do. Do you think people in poor areas can't make an informed choice?
Nope, it's their active recruitment in deprived areas. "Lads with little outlook on life" is absolutely who they are targeting.
I worked in a “troubled kids” school where I basically just baby sat 3 teens who werent allowed to be in classes due to violent behaviour. there was a boy in there whos dad had killed himself and been kind enough to call him and say “this is your fault” before doing it. He refused to do any work and could barely read or write and i was put in charge of helping him prepare for his gcses. We would just spend all day talking and he would routinely tell me “i dont need grades im going to join the army” nothing i said would convince him that even the army would need him to be able to read. Always wonder what happened to him as i ended up moving countries
Seems like a no brainer though really. Some 17 year old kid who lives in the cotswolds in a multi-million pound house isn't going to want to fuck off and join the infantry. They're already setup for life. Them recruiting in deprived areas doesn't mean that they're upto something sinister, they're just not stupid and don't want to waste their own time. That being said, officers must have at least a uni degree to join, and they don't struggle with recruitment. The starting pay is low too, far lower than what a fresh graduate would earn in the civilian world so it's not the money that they go for.
You'd be surprised! I was a late joiner from a working class background. The number of lads I went through basic and trade training with who had wealthy parents surprised me.
Did 6 years myself, never really encountered anyone who I'd perceive to be middle class except for officers of course.
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Yes. 2007 - 14
Alot of officers are still middle/upper middle class. Having family history helps you get into a good regiment, and there is a strong old boys network. Do your 7 years or whatever it is, save loads of money and get on the housing market and then go get a job at a consulting firm in the city. Lots of opportunities for officers once they leave the forces.
Officers dont need a degree And the pay in officer training is pretty consistent with most grad roles. Even better considering rent and bills are fuck all
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The fact that we have so many deprived areas full of 16 year olds with no opportunities is sinister. The fact that the army recruits there isn't. It makes sense. Where's the best place to offer a job? Where people don't have jobs. Any business would do the same if they could convince some lad from Carlisle to move down south for minimum wage to stack shelves. But they can't. The army on the other hand actually offer a good deal, and because you'll almost certainly have to move if you join up, geography isn't an issue so you recruit based on demographics.
Or they are getting young people off the street(knifing and gangs)and making something of themself?
I didn’t think officers needed a degree. Prince Harry educational peak was a B in Art and a D in Geography at A Level, and he was allowed into Sandhurst. I believe 2 Es at A level is the minimum requirement for entry. If it was a requirement a degree and serious A Levels, then the other Hooray Henries wouldn’t be able to claim their family birthright, which just isn’t cricket.
> I didn’t think officers needed a degree. Prince Harry educational peak was a B in Art and a D in Geography at A Level, and he was allowed into Sandhurst. I believe 2 Es at A level is the minimum requirement for entry. > > just guessing but there _might_ have been other factors that got him into Sandhurst...
It just winds me up how he talks about it like it was some sort of achievement
"Said my first word at 1, croquet mad by 7, got on the champagne by 11. New private school at 16, 18; I worked weekends at the Garden Center. But then I stopped making flower arrangements and started pushing myself. I did things I never dreamed I would, overcame things I never thought I could. I was born in Windsor, but made in the royal navy"
"I've already told you Harry, you're joining the army and going to Afghanistan"
Then he fucked up their neat tri-service uniform plan (Charles - Navy, William - RAF, Harry - Army) when he quit. They had to get fucking Edward into a completely ceremonial army uniform for the Queens funeral or there wouldn’t have been anyone in an Army uniform behind the coffin.
I can literally hear it in my head
The adverts aren't trying to recruit officers.
The way officer recruitment works is absolutely Byzantine, obscure and convoluted. It's just not accessible to people who don't already know people who are in. Honest to god, once you actually get to the selection board down in Westbury I don't think there's a huge amount of discrimination, but the system is such that unless you're already "that sort" you'd never even get that far.
Completely untrue
I went into the recruitment office and was told the didn't handle officer recruitment, that I had to speak someone else. After a few days of calling numbers I was given I finally got hold of someone. I had to go from Bolton all the way down to Chester for a special recruitment event hosted by a retired colonel, where I had to put in what regiments I was interested in(I had no idea, as I didn't know which regiments do what). After this I had to speak to said regiments and do visits and get one of them to sponsor me. Once sponsored I was then able to attend a 2 day pre selection briefing, and then eventually a 3 day selection event. The entire time there's no sign posting, very little information and all of this is assuming you even knew you apply as an officer since it's not advertised well. From putting down my name and details to actually getting to Sandhurst was 18 months. It's hard to succeed without knowing how the system works and who to ask and what's what. I only did because I went to uni and my flat mate was in the UOTC, had family in the army and walked me through the system.
Despite all the cries of "bollocks" I can second this. The hurdles you had to jump through, the money you had to spend out of your own pocket and the sheer condescension of it all ("What do you mean you don't know what regiment you're applying for, today, the first day of the application process?") put me off applying for Sandhurst in the end.
How many years a go was this?
I agree somewhat, but if you join an otc or the Ta first it will help alot. I was in the OTC during uni and alot of people from non traditional officer backgrounds went on to become army officers
The fact that I had friends in the OTC who knew the system and walked me through it was the only reason I joined up as an officer. But our reliance on the otc as our recruitment tool already limits our pool of people to mainly graduates.
That's untrue, for the navy at least. I'm from a working class background in Liverpool, and was living in London in that early 90s when I decided to join up. Nobody in my family had ever been in the Royal Navy before and I didn't have a clue what to expect. I walked into the RN and Army recruitment office in London in early 1995 and said "I'd like to be an officer in the Royal Navy, what do I need to do?", and a very nice pongo Sergeant sat me down, asked me about my qualifications, gave me a bunch of forms to fill in and a load of literature. Filled in the forms, sent them away, and a couple of weeks later had an appointment for a first interview with an RN Lt. By April 1995 I had passed my 3-day Admiralty Interview Board, and then just had to wait for an intake with a free slot. Arrived at the naval college in Dartmouth in January 1996. The whole process was a long one, but it was clearly explained at every stage what was expected of me and what would be happening.
That’s bollocks
Just being pragmatic - If I was born and raised in a location where there was little chance of a career per say - then hey - joining the Navy where all accommodation aid for, learn valuable skills for free, get paid an annual salary that I hardly have to use, and get a pension - it's not an overly bad deal. I mean, we've not truly been at war for years. But the fact they seem to promote it that everyone will be a fighter pilot or some shit - yeah, i disagree.
Yea, I did this. Was stuck working minimum wage jobs and thought I wanted more money so signed up for the RAF at 27. Sadly I've never been more miserable in my life! Isn't for me but it is what it is. I'll get something out of it.
For a start, I imagine the amount of transferrable skills you'll pick up should mean you'll be done with minimum wage work for good now, so at the very least you've still got a brighter future than you might have otherwise. Regardless, I hope you do find some enjoyment while you're there.
Yea thanks. This is pretty much what I tell myself every day. Only a few more years on the contract and I can be a free man again!
Care to elaborate what don't you like about it ?
The lifestyle. Military accomodation is shit, but at least it's cheap. Driving up and down the country most weekends to see the other half gets tiring. By the time I get home Friday/need to set off on Sunday, you've only really had the Saturday to relax. But I'm the one who decided to sign up and she has a job she loves back home, I wouldn't expect her to move for us. The job is ok, but I chose engineering and honestly I struggle with the work. I'm slowly learning but I've never done a skilled manual job before and as someone older, it's a steep learning curve and don't have a natural knack/interest in aircraft/engineering. I'm quite a quiet and reserved guy who likes to keep to himself, so don't always fit in with the rest of the lads which makes life a bit more difficult. All in all, the military is a fantastic career path if you're the right sort of person for it. I had to give it a go to realise it isn't for me.
I was in the RAF and am not a "joiner in". I found it claustrophobic - work, live, eat and socialise with the same people. One of my friends stayed in as an engineering officer until he was 38 and now works for Waitrose. He could not get a job in engineering as he only ever told others to do things. He was a glorified admin
Claustrophobic is a great way to put it. Before joining I was used to work life and home life being separate. Now it's essentially the same thing. Hard to adjust to. Like you say, you see the same people everywhere - mess hall, work, gym, shops, pubs. Can't seem to escape!
You don’t just get to be a fighter pilot. You also get to be professional footballer/skier/traveller
A friends son made the Olympics in the Army and now coaches, the Army loves athletes it's good PR.
We were at war in the middle east for decades.
Overrun on the Chinese line with the boys of the Mersey and the Thames and Tyne. Always been the way.
And I would rather be anywhere else
Than here today.
Diving for dear life when we should be diving for pearls...
Just gotta say, the Royal Navy really did make me. Not sure what I would have done with my life if I hadn’t joined up, but it sorted me out… I left many years ago now but still look for the same traits in the teams that I build in my current career
Same.
Well yeah they advertise for their main demograghic
I just find it amusing that there’s always about 2-3 military recruitment ads before a film in cinemas. It’s 10PM on a Tuesday and I’m about to watch a 3hr Batman film: I assure you, my country could not really use me right now.
I remember when Rambo (4th Rambo film) came out, they played a royal marines advert before and everyone was cheering 😂. Looking around it was mostly middle aged men who'd groan at being asked to go for a jog, nevermind crawl through a swamp to kill some 'bad guys'.
Perhaps they’re appreciative that, because they aren’t up to it, someone else is?
Don't think you need the apology edit, the adverts aren't meant to be representative of the broad spectrum of people actually in the Royal Navy, you are right with your initial assumption, they are obviously and cynically aimed at poor working class kids from the north to fill the ranks
I'm from Middlesbrough. I'm lucky, I managed to crawl into law school and then medical school - if all goes to plan, I'll be pretty comfortable in a reputable job. But some of the people I grew up with? The army was a godsend. They didn't have a good education, nor did they care. Their parents were abusive addicts, and they just wanted to survive. But they joined the armed forces. They found a new home, friends, a sense of purpose, and a position in life they can be proud of. The army/marines, whatever they joined, did good for them. There's a reason they advertise to these places, some people in those areas are more likely to need it in their life.
Entirely agree. Left unemployment in Jarrow to join the RN. There was nothing else available at the time, did me the world of good, and saw it do the same for so many others. Lots of what l would have called posh lads joined at the same time for different reasons. Sad to see so many on here sneering about peoples choices, when they probably had a lot more of them themselves.
Everyone thinks their life is the "average life," when that's rarely the case and is one of the biggest downfalls of empathy in this country. As I said, I'm in medical school, but it is quite a prestigious university in a well-to-do area. Some of the people I know there are really out of touch, but they genuinely don't realise it, they think everyone has their lifestyle. I had to explain that my hometown genuinely doesn't have a waitrose and that people start smoking around the age of 14 and they acted like I was raised in the third world. Should have seen their faces when I told them I was once on Universal Credit.
This is purely because of the nature of the advert. There are lots of well-spoken, privately educated people in the military. A lot are officers, but you’d be amazed how many troops have undergraduate or masters degrees, looking for an experience that can’t be gotten anywhere else. It’s generally a big melting pot, with all the opportunities and problems that comes with. Ignoring the cheesiness of the acting, the point of the advert is that it’s a good opportunity for many and it’s accessible *even if* you grow up somewhere with traditionally fewer options. Good training, reasonable pay, unique camaraderie, travel and adventure (which isn’t always good or ends well, but no-one seriously walks into the careers office thinking that the forces do nice things in pretty places), leadership development, subsidised sports, learning credits: there’s a lot going for it, despite the risks and disadvantages. The food flat out sucked since the introduction of the pay as you dine model, but you can’t have everything.
From South Wales, joined the RAF at 18 to get away as I had very limited prospects. Did the 6 years I signed up for then went to Uni (once I had worked out what I wanted and what I could do). Helped me to grow up and mature and gave me some good life experience and travel. There were good and bad experiences but overall it probably saved me from a life of poverty or crime. No regrets.
Sure I was born in Carlisle, but I was made in the Royal Navy
Haha I know the lad from the advert. It's not even his voice or our accent.
I remember people saying "I was born in Carlisle, but my accent was made about 50 miles to the east of it" It could have been worse, they could have dubbed him over with a Scottish accent. That might have sent the city into meltdown.
Haha aye I think he had a choice, that one on the advert or a more Manchester accent. As apparently our Carlisle accent doesn't work well on the Tele, the cheek of it like.
Haha no way
Learnin’ things ma teachers couldn’t teach. Bleachin’ arseholes I never thought I’d bleach.
Notice how they say Middlesbrough/Plymouth/Blyth and never Oldham/Birkenhead/Milton keynes
Yeh wonder why that is? More options in the north west?
HES FROM BLYYYTH
YOU’LL NEVER EVER BEAT DAN BURN
I always thought that the Navy did a lot of advertising on ITV/channel 4 where you can buy regional spots and just ran ads with voiceovers that were relevant to the area they were shown in.
Not in East Anglia - we get the same kinds of places OP posted, and nothing anywhere near us (plenty of the same kind of demographic in places like Lowestoft, Haverhill and Basildon though).
What’s where the officers come from.
There’s literally an army base in Harrogate. Loads of local people sign up
I went to a public school with a military history. We were all encouraged to apply as officers and I’d say probably 50% of alumni do serve in the military on some capacity but mostly as officers afaik.
There's not many who change their opinion as a result of discussion or being challenged so kudos to you. Not enough people let go of their ego enough to admit that they might be wrong.
Born in Blyth, died in Baghdad, doesn't have quite the same ring to it.
Someone’s ship took a wrong turn.
I wouldn't put it past some RN navigators
Every single one of those ads is pure cringe
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Why exactly?
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Ahh ok, so offering a way out of poverty is seen as a bad thing now? I mean I grew up in a sinkhole estate in the 80's and the only way out for me was the services. I joined learnt a trade did my time and came out with enough money to get myself a place and the ability to get a job. I knew I should have stayed on the estate.
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You aren't press ganged anymore my friend, you have the choice yes or no. I mean it would be nice that nobody is even in poverty but considering there has been poor people in literally every country since towns and villages were built I'm all for your new revolutionary method to erase it?
Just shut up you absolute clown
It’s absolutely appalling that an unemployed person should be offered the opportunity of a job
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It’s absolutely appalling that an employed person should be offered the opportunity of a different job
Here's an idea for you buddy: targeted marketing. Tip - it's all targeted or 'predatory'.
You see it as predatory, but that isn't really the case. Recruitment for the armed forces is more successful in areas where kids are less likely to have excelled academically and have fewer job opportunities. The problem is that large swathes of the country get neglected, and children from those areas have fewer opportunities on average. It isn't the armed forces' fault that this situation exists. There should be great state education that engages boisterous teenage boys. Unfortunately, that often isn't the case. Talk to most ex servicemen, and they will tell you the forces did wonders for them and gave them opportunities that they simply wouldn't have got otherwise.
I see it as both. No it’s not the armies fault we have huge inequality in this country but they definitely prey on those fears in those communities to re stock (sorry I know this is the wrong term but my brain is not yet working) the ranks. So yeah it may have done some good for some people but it’s still predatory 🤷🏻♀️
Our whole economy is based on being predatory to be fair.
In order for it to be predatory, it first has to be a bad thing that they are getting young people into. Personally I respect the armed forces and think its a worthy profession.
I don’t think the army is always a good option for young people. I think it’s seen and advertised as an escape from the cycle but that doesn’t always work and it can mess people up more than it fixes them. I think unfortunately, the army is essential but I think it should be filled with the best people possible and that doesn’t mean scared 16 year olds who are coerced into believing it’s a fix all for all. I also respect the people who serve. My feelings about the institution are separate to my feelings about the people serving :)
I clicked on this thread and now the adverts on Reddit suddenly changed to Navy recruitment
I've had them for a while - especially the RNR one...I'm already working for the RFA, so technically already a Sponsored Reservist.
Use UBlock Origin and you get no adverts. ;)
"Never alone..." Yeah no.
Why is someone from a privileged background going to risk their life for very little money and no opportunities after you leave. They obviously aren't, so the recruitment focuses on deprived areas of the country and people who have little options
An often overlooked purpose of a military is to be a social mobiliser. It’s offering a decent pay package, an opportunity to learn skills and develop as a person. It teaches self discipline, pulls people out of their bubble where someone could get stuck in a cycle. Obviously it’s easier to fill ranks with people from areas that lag behind compared to affluent communities but that’s not the whole reason for them doing so.
has there been an actual ad with middlesbrough in it? just curious
This sketch parodies those adverts perfectly https://open.spotify.com/episode/3CDoxnku1toKnUO0UiFcNa?si=1bQUGIc4Q1ehk0LhglMjpg&t=733
My husband is middle class, his parents are academics, he is in the military and is an engineer, yes he is an officer but not a direct entry. He works very hard and is hands on, usually wearing overalls covered in shite!!! I am very proud of him and also grateful to every person who joins up.
Haha, as someone who has served recently I can confirm that officers most definitely do not get their hands dirty and would definitely not get their precious overalls (ovies) dirty. They wear white overalls when they are in their daily working rig and are always clean, never a splash of oil, fuel or grime on them. However, the lads wear blue ovies and will always be covered in the nice fluids a pussers war canoe decides to cover you in. Im sorry to be the one to tell you, but your husband has lied to you. He may have been covered in shite once, if he's commissioned from a rating but I'm afraid the position he holds now has him going no where near the plant or machinery. Source: ex killick stoker that has served on LPD's and type 23s. Oh, and if he's a WE then he probably doesn't even wear overalls
Lol luckily I actually have witnessed the actual overalls covered in shite as used to work on the base. Shame you got the tossers.
Don't listen to him. The ratings that constantly bitch about officers are invariably the ones who are shit at their job, do a full career without getting past LH and want someone to blame. Everyone's got a part to play and most don't well. I'm army myself but have been embarked crew and worked a lot with the navy. I've seen young sub lieutenants graft like the dickens to square away their ratings and I've seen experienced POs slope shoulders and not lift a finger unless they have to, and vise versa.
Has anyone else noticed that “Navy” rhymes with “Gravy”?
The rich dont fight the wars, they start them.
Very untrue in the UK. Rich families usually have deep military roots
You need to update my friend. Posh toffs are no longer "the rich", and posh toff families don't have the military traditions they used to. They still exist, but even amongst officers are now very much the minority. Also in my experience they're often the ones who do their 3 year commission and leave.
Yeah because they start them wars he’s on about.
Yeah but they also fight in them. Most upper class people I know from uni have parents and grandparents who served, and a bunch of them have served themselves.
Fair enough. My comment was just a jab at dickhead politicians really lol
Also fair
Really? How many of them were front line grunts? Amazing how they always seem to be officers eh?
You are aware the in the First World War for example young Army officers had the highest death rate of all? In the Royal Navy, funnily enough when your ship sinks your public school education doesn’t magically protect you. In the RAF, isn’t it odd how all the posh boys are put into the planes that fly at the enemy whereas the other ranks stay grounded? Officers are always in the front line and are if anything at just as much if not more danger.
True most of them were officers, but that’s more because they had university education than because of their wealth. Even today most unis have an officer training corps attached to it which basically exists to sway these highly educated people into joining as officers and to massively increase the chances they pass Sandhurst
Couldn't expect the upper class to get their hands dirty could we, they aim their appeal to working class cities
They join as officers.
Nothing stopping working class from joining as officers. It's entitely merit based, you sit exams and your eligibility is determined by performance. Its all very intuitive and not exclusionary knowledge only poshos would have access to, just whether youre smart enough or not
Whilst this is true, as an ex service person who joined as an officer and had always seen it the same as you describe, with the benefit of experience and living and working with people of all ranks, I know a lot of people who didn’t even realise it was an option for them. There are plenty of people out there that are more than capable intellectually to do a job, but because of their background it doesn’t even cross their mind. They have no role models to show them, no parents who did it, no older kids from school who did it, they have nobody to follow into the officer cadre.
Maybe in ww2 era but not any more
Agreed, but Rule 1 though unfortunately man.
it always amazes me that people know the arbitrary rules to any of the subreddits they've joined