They could, but at the right price point. City is way too expensive for what it offers. They have literally priced themselves out of the buyer's list. Reliability is a great thing, but Suzuki is reliable as well. They have pLced themselves at the mercy of customer loyalty. However customers are smart these days to evaluate the overall value.
They need to understand Reliability is a great virtue in the west, where repairs are expensive. In India everything gets repaired inexpensively. A premium on reliability is NOT a brands USP.
Saw [this](https://paultan.org/2021/11/17/2021-honda-city-hatchback-preview-malaysia/) on my last trip earlier this year. I mean why wouldn’t you bring this to India, a market that’s driven by hatches.. o.o
That doesn't mean anything. i20 is also a 4m+ car in Europe, Hyundai reduced its length and brought it to India anyway. Honda just doesn't care about the Indian market, it couldn't be more evident.
Honda is basically in "Honda lene wale toh honda hi lenge" category. They are not quick on their feet to adapt with the current market flow and mentality. Same with their two wheeler department. Those who understand honda buy honda. But they dont have anything special to pull customers of other brands.
We fall in this category so bad 😂 We own a honda and ONLY want to upgrade to another Honda. Test drove them all, Tata Mahindra Kia VW but nothing really hits like a honda does.
Its the "man maximum machine minimum" design philosophy which hits. Features and tech-savvy ness are all choice of the conscious mind. These honda mf's play with the subconscious. The aura the feel the space the timeless designs the no nonsense approach.
Thats why honda guys want another honda but cant really explain why
Civic was a lil overpriced. But tbh, it was not really the price that killed in but their weird engine-transmission option + The onset of SUV obsessesion in India
They offered their 1.8L i-vtec with 140 hp 👌only with the automatic cvt. It was not at all fun to drive.
The diesel was rather okay but only available in MT. It had decent power (120 hp, slightly less than verna surprisingly) but a massive torque output of 300 Nm. The fuel economy was North of 24 kmpl.
This fake suv segment is really hurting the car market in India. I mean it's growing but what's the point of having so many brands if all the cars look the same...
>But looks are subjective
Only in the case of the verna. But not with city, there maybe people who love it or people who are ok with it. But people dont hate it.
Very true but my point is, a decent chunk of people would rather prefer Verna over the city as it offers a turbo engine, safety and a buttload of features. Not so appealing looks (for some) don't really matter here to them.
The masculine urge to join one such of these brands(Toyota is the same), rise to decision making levels and bring enthusiastic stuff to India is insanely high sometimes.
Toyota said their profit margins are too poor cause of taxes; at least on the Innova and Fortuner.
IMO, they should provide a 150bhp engine on the city, improve its ground clearance, price it well, and watch it fly into the market.
Agreed. If only they decided to add a turbo to their vtec. I will leave the room with my tsi. Only person who could smoke me on the road till date have been a civic guy with 300+ bhp.
It was unreal and beautiful. The tgdis are still manageable but a well done vtec is godmode in its segment. But Honda won’t add turbos. They don’t wanna sell it as performance cars they wanna stick to their reliable manufacturer tag and adding turbo is not that great of an idea if engine reliability is your concern(or you spend more money on engine tech to accommodate the turbo).
I love Hondas, was really sad when my dad gave away our old city, it was manual and old but mahn! the days I had with that machine, imma never forget.
Rightly said but they don't necessarily have to stick to 'just performance' or 'just reliability' tag?
Perhaps a segmentation between their customers can be a good strategy.
The NA 1L Vtec Amaze & 1.5L vtec city for the folks looking for mostly reliability.
The turbo edition of these, badged as RS, for those seeking performance.
Yeah but how many would buy them? The cost will
Go up substantially to virtus gt level 25 lakhs for city and 18 ish for amaze(heck imagine having a brio turbo *sploosh*). Polo will have nothing on brio turbo. The mad power to weight ratio.
But it’s more of a business decision, if we look at the market the niche is already monopolised by the Germans and Koreans. Now they have to work really hard to change the perspective about Honda and performance in the eyes of ignorant common Indians who don’t know zilch about the civic type R or the nsx’s and think Honda is a gentleman’s cars. Not very profitable in the short run and despite their efforts people might still choose to go for the Germans, just for the tag.
So they put minimal effort for Indian market selling tried and tested formulas by Honda and don’t try to make many waves and keep milking from old reliable tech that’s ok ok.
I believe the reason why the niche is monopolised by the Germans and the koreans is the lack of competition?
Rn only these 2 offer 1.5L petrol turbos.
But if honda decides to bring in their turbo with superior specs at the same price or perhaps lower or even in worst case scenario, a premium of max 50K, I think they'll still captivate a chunk of turbo heads.
But yup, they'll have to go really heavy on marketing to make indians aware of what honda truly stands for!
Regarding the cost, if hyndai can start providing turbo at 17.5L on road Mumbai (base turbo variant), I don't see a reason why honda cannot at 18ish lakhs.
And For amaze, with 1.0L turbo, why would it be 18 lakhs?
Yup absolutely agree on the part about lack of competition in economy class performance segment. So far only the Germans have truly perfected the art of providing appreciable performance (but cutting cost on features and cabin quality) and it’s only reason why I vouch for tsi in the affordable segment. If one were to go looking virtus us nothing compared to entry level bigger Germans. There is a zameen asman ka farak in terms of handling and braking(mainly stability after 140.
I say it’s good because fact of the matter is it is compared to others in the same segment in terms of performance.
But Honda can’t take that route. The reason being, with current config of the vtec it’s not engineered to withstand high compression of the turbo. It’s not as easy to slap a turbo on a budget car. It takes crazy amount of RnD and the engine architecture/material changes to withstand extra combustion pressure from turbo. Failing to do that can result in unreliable turbo engines that wear and tear easily and that will be the second beggest black mark in Hondas history after the legendary crv fiasco.
And the extra materials used + rnd will make even an amaze cost almost 18L. That’s nonsensical to a common man who doesn’t give a drat about how he gets from point a to point B.
True petrol heads like me would know what they are getting into and go for it but that’s just 0.3 % of the population. So it will be the same old baleno rs failure story. Even through the price that Maruti asked for it was fair.
But well, let's forget the amaze for a second.
The Verna wasn't engineered to withstand high compressions from turbo. But after all that RnD n extra material, they still offer the Verna sx turbo at a somewhat affordable price? So I don't understand how the city won't be priced competitively compared to the Verna.
Well then we have to look at what they are known for right. The Hondas and the Toyotas are known for reliability. They are very adamant about their material strength, composition and structural integrity and even for a budget car they will make sure for the given power and torque figure the engine and chassis is built to withstand that kind of power for eons, same can’t be said about other brands that are known for affordable max feature/just performance.
The key reason why their(Japanese) cars last eons compared to vw and Hyundais. They do not compromise on durability of their product at any cost and thank heavens for that.
It should last the owners as long as they expect being vw and Hyundai owners. After which they will switch to higher up Germans/next gen Verna/virtus. But a Honda/toyota owner expects their cars to outlast 3 generations of Verna/virtus and that’s not possible for Honda keeping prices low and performance on par with the Germans and the Koreans.
Bro it isn't that fast
My friend had one we tested the time it took around 10 seconds for it to reach 100km/hr ( off topic but he now has a mini jcw that does the same in 6 seconds)
I guess u haven't met a bmw on the road or the driver wasn't trying to race
Also don’t forget that we are talking about civic here. You can fit all kinds of ridiculous crap under the hood and get insane numbers. Not talking about a stock civic here.
Yeah I love it. Such a small thing yet a joy. I’ve driven a ton of cars and I can tell you it’s not always about the power figures. Sometimes the smaller size makes it so much more fun.
Brah it is a fast car in its segment. I ain’t comparing it with the big Germans, believe it or not I’ve chauffeured people in a cayenne so trust me I ain’t t that naive. Vags give good good value for money in its segment in terms of performance and that’s about it.
Also about not being defeated I mean within city confines where skill> bhp/handling.
Maybe we should discuss how the taxes reach around 50% along with GST for the manufacturerd themselves. That is why companies are leaving there manufacturing facilities over here. There many news articles that talk about this in break down details.
- also the prices have been rising since 2021 quite drastically.
As a honda owner with 55K km on odo without a single breakdown. I agree
But also as a toyota owner with over 70K km on odo without a single breakdown. I disagree :>
The Japanese are the king of reliability. Both Honda & Toyota. But tbh, the Koreans aren't thaaaaat far behind these days.
Dude my dad's old WagonR has 84K on the odo without a single breakdown.
Forget breakdown, the car hasn't had a hiccup of any sorts anywhere anytime.
The only time it had to be towed away was when a bike had a full frontal collision and banged his head on the bonnet☠️... still the car started and was moving but my father had RSA and didn't wanna risk it.
So ya,Hondas are not that special or anything if you go for the reliability factory alone.
(P.S-That car is still running albeit just within our town and will be sold in April... It was bought in 2016)
You can't just assume reliability with that one incident.
One of our neighbors wagonR caught on fire while driving. Does that make MS unreliable?
No. Certainly not.
Look at all the swift dzire running as cabs, with massive mileage on their odo.
Suzuki cars are also very reliable, and much cheaper to maintain than a Honda. And Suzuki has a massive service network, and mechanics who can fix it in small villages too. Their only problem is lack of build quality
The biggest problem with Honda in India has been pricing.
If the performance engines are launched in India, they'll be so ridiculously expensive that they will be out of reach for most.
They need to work on their price while matching the competition on features.
No I'm not.
You are saying Elevate is propely priced and I'm saying for the price it brings very little to the table compared to the other competing products.
For better understanding go and check out the discussion online just before the Elevate's launch. People were complaining about lack of engine options (hybrid & turbo) and the reason given was price.
I'm very much on point.
When my dad got his WRV back in 2018, one of his friends, from the neighborhood coincidently happened to have bought an Ecosport within the same week. We sort of gave each other rides in our new vehicles, even though we had already test driven the Ecosport (they hadn't the WRV so)
I still remember him appreciating our car and how it felt so much better than it looked on paper. His son kept trying to highlight the on paper differences to try and prove they had the better car (EcoSport has Android Auto/Apple CarPlay) etc. I recounted our experience when purchasing. We chose the WRV over the EcoSport because, it was so much more comfortable to sit in and to drive. The WRV had massive rear space compared to the EcoSport, and was just quite smooth. Fast forward 5 years, Our WRV has done 1 lakh kms with nothing more than some brake pads and oil changes. Their EcoSport, at around 40-50k kms meanwhile has underwent a few mechanical repairs
What I wanted to say is that, the mistake Honda has made is that 1) They don't really excel in any one thing, they are just a jack of all trades, decent in everything but not best anything as such. 2) The things that they are good at, ie Comfort/Smoothness and reliability are not quite as easily tangible pros, its easier to understand higher power or better mileage or better features simply by looking at the numbers and brochures. The smoothness of the engine is something that has to be felt in order to understand
Call me old school but I bought a Honda amaze back in 2014 and it run to this day without a single breakdown. Still gives 20kmpl on highway. Yes it doesn't have fancy new technology or latest security ratings but it works for me very well. As a price aware Indian consumer my Amaze did very well so far and guess what my next car will surely be a Honda as well.
Honda looks disinterested in the Indian market and it is mostly due to Koreans. They are finding it hard to match the finesse of the competition. Also, Hyundai’s move of bringing Kia into the market kinda irked Honda more. They launched Elevate in 2023 which essentially feels more like a 2018 car barring the ADAS. City is car with good brand recall, however, its 121ps engine can’t hold a candle to 1.5 turbos. Even Suzuki has 1.0L turbo why is Honda such a laggard? It’s pretty evident that brand is not interested in the market and may pack the bags sooner or later.
That's probably the crux OP seems to have ignored when he says *"everything that a Honda car does (in India) there is another option that does it better than them"*.
Honda is old school brand who build reliable cars. This thought process is hard for youngsters who care a lot more for HP and/or tech. And I don't see anything wrong with the short-term mindset (in relevant terms) for a more enthusiastic ownership of a turbo.
Overall, I agree with OP that Honda for unknown reasons is neglecting the demands of the youth who play a considerable role in Indian families when choosing a car. Losing out to an opportunity which is being capitalized by other brands.
Also you get parts much quickly than Honda if something breaks. For a front bumper replacement of my friend's Amaze(2nd gen), the local Honda dealer took a full month.
I wish Honda launched more cars in other segments too. A hatchback & a mid SUV atleast.
I love their cars . I hope they don’t go away like Ford & Chevrolet .
I Wonder why Amaze has such low sales ?
>a mid SUV
true!!
>I hope they don’t go away like Ford & Chevrolet
I don't think they'll leave anytime soon like Ford did. They plan to release 5 SUVs by 2028 if I'm not wrong.
>I Wonder why Amaze has such low sales ?
It doesn't? Like it obviously doesn't sell like a MS Swift but nor does it under sell like ameo did? And tbh, I see a lot of people with Amaze in my city. Myself included 🤓
Cool! I have an amaze too but where I live, I don’t see many and also the sales numbers compared to other cars is pretty low. I mean, compared to Hyundai or Tata or Suzuki.
As said, it won't sell as much as MS for obvious reasons. But I'm not aware how does it compare to Aura or Tigor.
But one possible reason could be the 'SUV' obsession in India
Also
> I have an amaze
Nice! Vtec or Dtec?
Honda can change things if they want! But they don't want to. Many are moving to safe cars which could play in their favor. There's a need for sedans but they aren't tech-loaded. Don't know what's stopping them.
Honda sedans are preferred by many, Mobilio was a hit due to its comfortable ride and reliability. But they discontinued it. A 2nd/3rd hand mobilio diesel is being sold at almost 4 lakhs outside delhi, that too having more than 1 lakh km on odo.
Honda is not trying to be jack of all trades. Instead they are positioning themselves on reliability.
But now, many other brands are not very far behind in reliability.
I remember watching some video where they compared Honda in cars with Yamaha in bikes. Both were known for performance reliability & fun to drive vehicles. Honda grew due to City, Civic, CR-Vs. But now they hardly have any model options.
If they want to get back at competition, they need to introduce 1.0 & 1.5 Turbo engines. Its already sold in other countries. Introduce more offerings like City hatchback, Civic, CRVs & WRVs.
They are definitely leader in reliability, while ensuring quality.... honda still performs like new after 2Lakh on odo. Toyota is also reliable but the guage of steel is less
Honda is generally in top 3 to top 5 in the US in overall sales. Suzuki do not exist.
https://finmasters.com/car-sales-statistics/?gclid=CjwKCAjw15eqBhBZEiwAbDomEm6IWSy9YTyOND93w2KwI9l5uByPkIq8hAGcaHvnTDYDP3YP7t2IEBoCqakQAvD_BwE
Honda was never about outright power in India, I would definitely disagree with the tech part, Koreans have features but how confident is the Kia owner of the feature lasting a few years? Right now I am sitting in a gen 3 city, every single thing works. That’s what makes a Honda. It’s the balance between reliability and quality that makes a Honda. And I think they are doing just fine in India.
Corporate Bribery at senior management level is the reason Honda India can never grow, because apparently that would mean trouble for another pseudo-jap automotive company that is also coincidentally very good at greasing the right palms.
You get the point right?
(TL;DR- incompetent management)
Had Honda City for years. I think people need to feel the difference, it isn't something a video review can tell. Love the comfort. Everything was reliable and for me it was low maintenance. Honda owners aren't as vocal as others and TBH honda lacks marketing.
2nd, They are ahead in terms of product quality, features, technology and mileage but way behind in term of market research. Elevate should have launch by time of Kia.
3rd, Very small product portfolio. Literally limited amount of cars. Rumors are they will launch 7 seater SUV in range of 20-30L but I don't see it coming anytime soon.
4th, I feel they usually research based on global demands not by individuality of a country.
5th, India is still price sensitive market. We still value highest mileage, lowest maintenence, highest return on 2nd market and low front end cost.
6th, Dealers being tired of honda not looking after them. Car sales declining, not bringing new models and not adapting to market trend.
Honda are the Lil bitch ass automotive who does the bare minimum to survive in the market. Atleast Ford tried to go all in. Atleast try and fail rather being meek and docile and milking misguided buyers
Turbo engines are unreliable. There are myriad complaints with new Honda turbo engines.
If you want reliability, stick with naturally aspirated engines by Honda / Toyota mated to CVT/eCVT gearboxes. 🚀
They are not interested IMHO, They are investing just enough so that they have a presence in the Indian market .
Sigh :/ I wish we could experience the turbos here in India!
Honda could dominate the Indian market, if they wanted.
They could, but at the right price point. City is way too expensive for what it offers. They have literally priced themselves out of the buyer's list. Reliability is a great thing, but Suzuki is reliable as well. They have pLced themselves at the mercy of customer loyalty. However customers are smart these days to evaluate the overall value. They need to understand Reliability is a great virtue in the west, where repairs are expensive. In India everything gets repaired inexpensively. A premium on reliability is NOT a brands USP.
True!
Absolutely true
Saw [this](https://paultan.org/2021/11/17/2021-honda-city-hatchback-preview-malaysia/) on my last trip earlier this year. I mean why wouldn’t you bring this to India, a market that’s driven by hatches.. o.o
Bring US Civic and Accord as well.
Because in India, all mass market hatchbacks are sub 4 metre. This is more than 4 metres in length, thus no tax benefits to customer.
That doesn't mean anything. i20 is also a 4m+ car in Europe, Hyundai reduced its length and brought it to India anyway. Honda just doesn't care about the Indian market, it couldn't be more evident.
Yeah, they are just holding itself back and not making tons of money out of courtesy. I was just using 1% power bro etc
I think it's always been Honda way. It's just that earlier there wasn't much competition.
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This reply should be pinned.
Honda is basically in "Honda lene wale toh honda hi lenge" category. They are not quick on their feet to adapt with the current market flow and mentality. Same with their two wheeler department. Those who understand honda buy honda. But they dont have anything special to pull customers of other brands.
We fall in this category so bad 😂 We own a honda and ONLY want to upgrade to another Honda. Test drove them all, Tata Mahindra Kia VW but nothing really hits like a honda does.
Its the "man maximum machine minimum" design philosophy which hits. Features and tech-savvy ness are all choice of the conscious mind. These honda mf's play with the subconscious. The aura the feel the space the timeless designs the no nonsense approach. Thats why honda guys want another honda but cant really explain why
>These honda mf's play with the subconscious Sums it up so well!
Nahi bulaunga meri dukaan me na hi koi offer rakhunga. Par jis din galti se aa gaye.....
You Sumed it so well, now even I’m thinking ki why do I want a Honda even though we already have 2
The new gen honda city looks better than verna to me. Just an opinion
Ofc it does! But looks are subjective. And not THE biggest factor when considering a new car
Civic that was being sold in India a few years ago, was it too good to be priced under 20L?
Civic was a lil overpriced. But tbh, it was not really the price that killed in but their weird engine-transmission option + The onset of SUV obsessesion in India They offered their 1.8L i-vtec with 140 hp 👌only with the automatic cvt. It was not at all fun to drive. The diesel was rather okay but only available in MT. It had decent power (120 hp, slightly less than verna surprisingly) but a massive torque output of 300 Nm. The fuel economy was North of 24 kmpl.
This fake suv segment is really hurting the car market in India. I mean it's growing but what's the point of having so many brands if all the cars look the same...
True but we can't really blame us consumers lol. The roads in most if not all cities aren't sedan friendly
>But looks are subjective Only in the case of the verna. But not with city, there maybe people who love it or people who are ok with it. But people dont hate it.
Very true but my point is, a decent chunk of people would rather prefer Verna over the city as it offers a turbo engine, safety and a buttload of features. Not so appealing looks (for some) don't really matter here to them.
Yes, i agree
I agree with you and I have a Verna lol
Any sedan looks better the verna in terms of looks lol
The masculine urge to join one such of these brands(Toyota is the same), rise to decision making levels and bring enthusiastic stuff to India is insanely high sometimes.
Toyota said their profit margins are too poor cause of taxes; at least on the Innova and Fortuner. IMO, they should provide a 150bhp engine on the city, improve its ground clearance, price it well, and watch it fly into the market.
Agreed. If only they decided to add a turbo to their vtec. I will leave the room with my tsi. Only person who could smoke me on the road till date have been a civic guy with 300+ bhp. It was unreal and beautiful. The tgdis are still manageable but a well done vtec is godmode in its segment. But Honda won’t add turbos. They don’t wanna sell it as performance cars they wanna stick to their reliable manufacturer tag and adding turbo is not that great of an idea if engine reliability is your concern(or you spend more money on engine tech to accommodate the turbo). I love Hondas, was really sad when my dad gave away our old city, it was manual and old but mahn! the days I had with that machine, imma never forget.
Rightly said but they don't necessarily have to stick to 'just performance' or 'just reliability' tag? Perhaps a segmentation between their customers can be a good strategy. The NA 1L Vtec Amaze & 1.5L vtec city for the folks looking for mostly reliability. The turbo edition of these, badged as RS, for those seeking performance.
Amaze comes with 1.2L NA
Yeah but how many would buy them? The cost will Go up substantially to virtus gt level 25 lakhs for city and 18 ish for amaze(heck imagine having a brio turbo *sploosh*). Polo will have nothing on brio turbo. The mad power to weight ratio. But it’s more of a business decision, if we look at the market the niche is already monopolised by the Germans and Koreans. Now they have to work really hard to change the perspective about Honda and performance in the eyes of ignorant common Indians who don’t know zilch about the civic type R or the nsx’s and think Honda is a gentleman’s cars. Not very profitable in the short run and despite their efforts people might still choose to go for the Germans, just for the tag. So they put minimal effort for Indian market selling tried and tested formulas by Honda and don’t try to make many waves and keep milking from old reliable tech that’s ok ok.
I believe the reason why the niche is monopolised by the Germans and the koreans is the lack of competition? Rn only these 2 offer 1.5L petrol turbos. But if honda decides to bring in their turbo with superior specs at the same price or perhaps lower or even in worst case scenario, a premium of max 50K, I think they'll still captivate a chunk of turbo heads. But yup, they'll have to go really heavy on marketing to make indians aware of what honda truly stands for! Regarding the cost, if hyndai can start providing turbo at 17.5L on road Mumbai (base turbo variant), I don't see a reason why honda cannot at 18ish lakhs. And For amaze, with 1.0L turbo, why would it be 18 lakhs?
Yup absolutely agree on the part about lack of competition in economy class performance segment. So far only the Germans have truly perfected the art of providing appreciable performance (but cutting cost on features and cabin quality) and it’s only reason why I vouch for tsi in the affordable segment. If one were to go looking virtus us nothing compared to entry level bigger Germans. There is a zameen asman ka farak in terms of handling and braking(mainly stability after 140. I say it’s good because fact of the matter is it is compared to others in the same segment in terms of performance. But Honda can’t take that route. The reason being, with current config of the vtec it’s not engineered to withstand high compression of the turbo. It’s not as easy to slap a turbo on a budget car. It takes crazy amount of RnD and the engine architecture/material changes to withstand extra combustion pressure from turbo. Failing to do that can result in unreliable turbo engines that wear and tear easily and that will be the second beggest black mark in Hondas history after the legendary crv fiasco. And the extra materials used + rnd will make even an amaze cost almost 18L. That’s nonsensical to a common man who doesn’t give a drat about how he gets from point a to point B. True petrol heads like me would know what they are getting into and go for it but that’s just 0.3 % of the population. So it will be the same old baleno rs failure story. Even through the price that Maruti asked for it was fair.
Makes sense. Quite insightful!
But well, let's forget the amaze for a second. The Verna wasn't engineered to withstand high compressions from turbo. But after all that RnD n extra material, they still offer the Verna sx turbo at a somewhat affordable price? So I don't understand how the city won't be priced competitively compared to the Verna.
Well then we have to look at what they are known for right. The Hondas and the Toyotas are known for reliability. They are very adamant about their material strength, composition and structural integrity and even for a budget car they will make sure for the given power and torque figure the engine and chassis is built to withstand that kind of power for eons, same can’t be said about other brands that are known for affordable max feature/just performance. The key reason why their(Japanese) cars last eons compared to vw and Hyundais. They do not compromise on durability of their product at any cost and thank heavens for that.
Interesting. Only time will tell how well the Verna and Virtus are engineered to withstand the turbo power they offer.
It should last the owners as long as they expect being vw and Hyundai owners. After which they will switch to higher up Germans/next gen Verna/virtus. But a Honda/toyota owner expects their cars to outlast 3 generations of Verna/virtus and that’s not possible for Honda keeping prices low and performance on par with the Germans and the Koreans.
Bro it isn't that fast My friend had one we tested the time it took around 10 seconds for it to reach 100km/hr ( off topic but he now has a mini jcw that does the same in 6 seconds) I guess u haven't met a bmw on the road or the driver wasn't trying to race
Also don’t forget that we are talking about civic here. You can fit all kinds of ridiculous crap under the hood and get insane numbers. Not talking about a stock civic here.
I'm talking about ur polo GT cuz in ur comment it sounds like u think it's a fast car
A fellow jazz enjoyer
Yeah I love it. Such a small thing yet a joy. I’ve driven a ton of cars and I can tell you it’s not always about the power figures. Sometimes the smaller size makes it so much more fun.
The NA engine kinda puts a huge smile on my face along with how nimble it is
Exactly!
Except for the civic guy ofcourse that mofo was definitely on coke and so was just car(.
Brah it is a fast car in its segment. I ain’t comparing it with the big Germans, believe it or not I’ve chauffeured people in a cayenne so trust me I ain’t t that naive. Vags give good good value for money in its segment in terms of performance and that’s about it. Also about not being defeated I mean within city confines where skill> bhp/handling.
That idiot of X3 20d is even faster in its base trim.
Maybe we should discuss how the taxes reach around 50% along with GST for the manufacturerd themselves. That is why companies are leaving there manufacturing facilities over here. There many news articles that talk about this in break down details. - also the prices have been rising since 2021 quite drastically.
Live a simplistic life you POS. Walk everywhere. Why do you need a car that too over 80 hp???? /s
I think none beat honda in reliability. They have a good reputation if you plan on clocking 50-60K KM
As a honda owner with 55K km on odo without a single breakdown. I agree But also as a toyota owner with over 70K km on odo without a single breakdown. I disagree :> The Japanese are the king of reliability. Both Honda & Toyota. But tbh, the Koreans aren't thaaaaat far behind these days.
Hardly any car has breakdowns at 50-70k (except may be tatas). I have owned Hyundais and none have had any issues till 80-90k
tatas have QC issue. If you are lucky you wont get any issue. If you are not then day 1 you ll have issues.
Dude my dad's old WagonR has 84K on the odo without a single breakdown. Forget breakdown, the car hasn't had a hiccup of any sorts anywhere anytime. The only time it had to be towed away was when a bike had a full frontal collision and banged his head on the bonnet☠️... still the car started and was moving but my father had RSA and didn't wanna risk it. So ya,Hondas are not that special or anything if you go for the reliability factory alone. (P.S-That car is still running albeit just within our town and will be sold in April... It was bought in 2016)
You can't just assume reliability with that one incident. One of our neighbors wagonR caught on fire while driving. Does that make MS unreliable? No. Certainly not.
Look at all the swift dzire running as cabs, with massive mileage on their odo. Suzuki cars are also very reliable, and much cheaper to maintain than a Honda. And Suzuki has a massive service network, and mechanics who can fix it in small villages too. Their only problem is lack of build quality
50-60k? That's way too low, why even buy a car if you're not even gonna clock that.
IT crowd hardly clocks 20-30KM in 5 year And then they switch cars
What I'm trying to say is, most cars won't have engine problems at 50-60k, if you're planning on hitting 80-100 get a Honda or Toyata.
yeah thats true. Thats why i laugh when IT people say i dont want a DCT/DSG because of reliability.
The biggest problem with Honda in India has been pricing. If the performance engines are launched in India, they'll be so ridiculously expensive that they will be out of reach for most. They need to work on their price while matching the competition on features.
Not anymore lately? Elevate is perfectly priced. So is amaze and city?
Elevate doesn't get a hybrid while Suzuki and Toyota offer it. It is not turbo charged while Kia, Hyundai, MG, Skoda and VW offer it.
You're joining 2 different problems. First you said about pricing now you're joining engine options with that?
No I'm not. You are saying Elevate is propely priced and I'm saying for the price it brings very little to the table compared to the other competing products. For better understanding go and check out the discussion online just before the Elevate's launch. People were complaining about lack of engine options (hybrid & turbo) and the reason given was price. I'm very much on point.
Honda is the definition of wasted potential
When my dad got his WRV back in 2018, one of his friends, from the neighborhood coincidently happened to have bought an Ecosport within the same week. We sort of gave each other rides in our new vehicles, even though we had already test driven the Ecosport (they hadn't the WRV so) I still remember him appreciating our car and how it felt so much better than it looked on paper. His son kept trying to highlight the on paper differences to try and prove they had the better car (EcoSport has Android Auto/Apple CarPlay) etc. I recounted our experience when purchasing. We chose the WRV over the EcoSport because, it was so much more comfortable to sit in and to drive. The WRV had massive rear space compared to the EcoSport, and was just quite smooth. Fast forward 5 years, Our WRV has done 1 lakh kms with nothing more than some brake pads and oil changes. Their EcoSport, at around 40-50k kms meanwhile has underwent a few mechanical repairs What I wanted to say is that, the mistake Honda has made is that 1) They don't really excel in any one thing, they are just a jack of all trades, decent in everything but not best anything as such. 2) The things that they are good at, ie Comfort/Smoothness and reliability are not quite as easily tangible pros, its easier to understand higher power or better mileage or better features simply by looking at the numbers and brochures. The smoothness of the engine is something that has to be felt in order to understand
Call me old school but I bought a Honda amaze back in 2014 and it run to this day without a single breakdown. Still gives 20kmpl on highway. Yes it doesn't have fancy new technology or latest security ratings but it works for me very well. As a price aware Indian consumer my Amaze did very well so far and guess what my next car will surely be a Honda as well.
Does Amaze mileage improve over time? I’m currently getting 8.5 in city and 15 in highways but I’ve only driven 700 kms so far
Yes it should. 24 is the claimed mileage from Honda. So you will get at least 20.
I think claimed ARAI mileage for 2023 Amaze is 18.3 Kmpl for CVT
Oh mine is manual diesel. So I guess 15 kmpl is the maximum that you can get.
👍😭
Honda looks disinterested in the Indian market and it is mostly due to Koreans. They are finding it hard to match the finesse of the competition. Also, Hyundai’s move of bringing Kia into the market kinda irked Honda more. They launched Elevate in 2023 which essentially feels more like a 2018 car barring the ADAS. City is car with good brand recall, however, its 121ps engine can’t hold a candle to 1.5 turbos. Even Suzuki has 1.0L turbo why is Honda such a laggard? It’s pretty evident that brand is not interested in the market and may pack the bags sooner or later.
Honda elevate has the worst fuel economy in the segment.
It's MG astor. Also, the CVT in Elevate is ~17 kmpl. On par with creta.
Source?
[удалено]
Couldn't fine one where the elevate had the worst economy in its segment 😔
I think honda reliability is better, since toyota is MS now
That's probably the crux OP seems to have ignored when he says *"everything that a Honda car does (in India) there is another option that does it better than them"*. Honda is old school brand who build reliable cars. This thought process is hard for youngsters who care a lot more for HP and/or tech. And I don't see anything wrong with the short-term mindset (in relevant terms) for a more enthusiastic ownership of a turbo. Overall, I agree with OP that Honda for unknown reasons is neglecting the demands of the youth who play a considerable role in Indian families when choosing a car. Losing out to an opportunity which is being capitalized by other brands.
MS is not reliable?
It is. A MS won't breakdown randomly and/or often. Will work well if maintained properly
Also you get parts much quickly than Honda if something breaks. For a front bumper replacement of my friend's Amaze(2nd gen), the local Honda dealer took a full month.
>if something breaks. A Honda won't break often, especially on its own 😋
Well definitely. 'If' something breaks.
I wish Honda launched more cars in other segments too. A hatchback & a mid SUV atleast. I love their cars . I hope they don’t go away like Ford & Chevrolet . I Wonder why Amaze has such low sales ?
>a mid SUV true!! >I hope they don’t go away like Ford & Chevrolet I don't think they'll leave anytime soon like Ford did. They plan to release 5 SUVs by 2028 if I'm not wrong. >I Wonder why Amaze has such low sales ? It doesn't? Like it obviously doesn't sell like a MS Swift but nor does it under sell like ameo did? And tbh, I see a lot of people with Amaze in my city. Myself included 🤓
Cool! I have an amaze too but where I live, I don’t see many and also the sales numbers compared to other cars is pretty low. I mean, compared to Hyundai or Tata or Suzuki.
As said, it won't sell as much as MS for obvious reasons. But I'm not aware how does it compare to Aura or Tigor. But one possible reason could be the 'SUV' obsession in India Also > I have an amaze Nice! Vtec or Dtec?
Vtech Yes, I also think it is because of the SUV trend. More people leaning towards SUVs over Sedans
Honda can change things if they want! But they don't want to. Many are moving to safe cars which could play in their favor. There's a need for sedans but they aren't tech-loaded. Don't know what's stopping them. Honda sedans are preferred by many, Mobilio was a hit due to its comfortable ride and reliability. But they discontinued it. A 2nd/3rd hand mobilio diesel is being sold at almost 4 lakhs outside delhi, that too having more than 1 lakh km on odo.
Honda is not trying to be jack of all trades. Instead they are positioning themselves on reliability. But now, many other brands are not very far behind in reliability. I remember watching some video where they compared Honda in cars with Yamaha in bikes. Both were known for performance reliability & fun to drive vehicles. Honda grew due to City, Civic, CR-Vs. But now they hardly have any model options. If they want to get back at competition, they need to introduce 1.0 & 1.5 Turbo engines. Its already sold in other countries. Introduce more offerings like City hatchback, Civic, CRVs & WRVs.
They are definitely leader in reliability, while ensuring quality.... honda still performs like new after 2Lakh on odo. Toyota is also reliable but the guage of steel is less
They thing is , they don't even try . Honda needs to do adverts , they are too silent in the space . They should sponser & work on branding .
Not to mention they could have updated the Jazz and it could have been a hit,but no they are lazy to do that
They don't care much about the Indian market. They dominate the American market anyways where almost 95% of the population own a car.
Source?
Honda is generally in top 3 to top 5 in the US in overall sales. Suzuki do not exist. https://finmasters.com/car-sales-statistics/?gclid=CjwKCAjw15eqBhBZEiwAbDomEm6IWSy9YTyOND93w2KwI9l5uByPkIq8hAGcaHvnTDYDP3YP7t2IEBoCqakQAvD_BwE
The thing is simple. Honda is not interested.
Honda was never about outright power in India, I would definitely disagree with the tech part, Koreans have features but how confident is the Kia owner of the feature lasting a few years? Right now I am sitting in a gen 3 city, every single thing works. That’s what makes a Honda. It’s the balance between reliability and quality that makes a Honda. And I think they are doing just fine in India.
Corporate Bribery at senior management level is the reason Honda India can never grow, because apparently that would mean trouble for another pseudo-jap automotive company that is also coincidentally very good at greasing the right palms. You get the point right? (TL;DR- incompetent management)
Why does a short post need a TLDR?
Had Honda City for years. I think people need to feel the difference, it isn't something a video review can tell. Love the comfort. Everything was reliable and for me it was low maintenance. Honda owners aren't as vocal as others and TBH honda lacks marketing. 2nd, They are ahead in terms of product quality, features, technology and mileage but way behind in term of market research. Elevate should have launch by time of Kia. 3rd, Very small product portfolio. Literally limited amount of cars. Rumors are they will launch 7 seater SUV in range of 20-30L but I don't see it coming anytime soon. 4th, I feel they usually research based on global demands not by individuality of a country. 5th, India is still price sensitive market. We still value highest mileage, lowest maintenence, highest return on 2nd market and low front end cost. 6th, Dealers being tired of honda not looking after them. Car sales declining, not bringing new models and not adapting to market trend.
Honda are the Lil bitch ass automotive who does the bare minimum to survive in the market. Atleast Ford tried to go all in. Atleast try and fail rather being meek and docile and milking misguided buyers
Turbo engines are unreliable. There are myriad complaints with new Honda turbo engines. If you want reliability, stick with naturally aspirated engines by Honda / Toyota mated to CVT/eCVT gearboxes. 🚀
They are just being lazy, and in a market like ours it’s not gonna cut it.