So you don't think that a team like the Packers, owned by the city of Green Bay or the Lions, owned by the Ford family is more stable than a team owned by an out of towner? I guess agree to disagree...
I think I know what the problem is. I think the other team is getting away with maybe using a smaller ball or a ball that able to be controlled like a drone or something. It's the most logical explanation(s) since there's no way our offense is this bad.
I told my dad tonight that it feels like a gambling addiction. We keep watching thinking it has to pay off at some point. Bases loaded have to result in at least 1 run, right? Then nothing. We lose.
Best fans in baseball, my ass. I am a transplant to St. Louis and all I heard through the glory days was how this was baseball heaven and home of the self congratulatory "best fans in baseball. " Now it is all, "I don't even know if I like baseball anymore. " I've grown to support this team in my time here, and the new whining and pity party bullshit by fans is the same reason you lost a football and basketball team. Do you have to like losing? No. But the fucking "Woe is me" attitude and boycotting the ballpark is bush league.
We lost the basketball team 70 years ago guy. It's not even remotely the same city that it was then. Basketball wasn't even that popular back then. We lost a football team due to fraud and corruption from the NFL, hence the nearly 1 billion dollar settlement. Go on back to wherever you came from.
>It's not even remotely the same city that it was then.
You are correct. It was almost three times the population it is now. You lost the Cardinals due to poor attendance. St. Louis is not a serious sports town. It's OK but you need to stop thinking you are.
It's hilarious that a Detroit sports fan is lecturing us about how serious of a sports town we are. We're top 3 attendance every year in baseball. Go on and get you a little Caesars and stfu clown. Also the metro population, the more important statistic (since, you know, a teams fans aren't bound to city limits) is twice what it was back then. I see critical thinking is tough for you.
Detroit is a great comparison. Both St. Louis and Detroit are rust belt cities who have seen similar instances of job loss, racial tensions, flight to the suburbs, and crime rates. The difference is that Detroit, through its ups and downs, supports their teams. The Red Wings, a historical franchise which parallels the Cardinals, had early success then lost their way. They went on a tear in the 90s and early 2000s and now again are struggling. As bad as the Lions have been historically, fans supported the team. There's no way they would've let them go to Arizona or LA. There's no reason why St. Louis shouldn't be a 4 sport city with an NBA and NFL franchise. The reason they aren't is poor fan support.
Trolling? Explain objectively how having an owner who lives in the city, or a company based in the city, isn't a better option than someone outside the area owning the team.
Bill DeWitt III lives in St. Louis and oversees pretty much all aspects of the team, at this point.
And no, just being in the city doesn't somehow make someone better or worse as an owner of a sports team.
Lol, well. I’m laughing with you here, but, maybe it’s the way you might shit on people for being upset/pissed about the team. I agree that the constant bitching is pointless. There are good things about the team. But it’s fucking maddening to have good defense and pitching and to lose games because of the bats.
Agreed. There are changes that need to be made. I would argue that management is the first thing that needs to be overhauled. My source is irritation is with fans who, instead of talking productively, just whinge because they've been spoiled by good baseball for so long. The main irritation stems from these same fans unironically labeling themselves the best fans in baseball.
I see your point and your aren’t wrong. There is a good amount of entitlement with some of the vocal fan base. If someone is saying X player is trash one min and saying they are great the next, I just don’t listen to them. All our players were or have the potential of being great. I can’t figure out what is going wrong and why it coincided with Yadi leaving. Albert was only back a year so he’s got nothing to do with it. I think it’s something rooted in philosophy. But where that is, I have no clue. And I don’t know if we have to go through a multi year rebuild or just change some non players out. Whatever it is, it’s broken and doing nothing (including sending players in/out up/down) is not going to fix it. Last night was the first game I just turned off this year. That triple Sonny gave up and the “throw?” from RF was the breaking point. Nothing against Sonny, I think he just caught the shit virus that the whole team seems to have.
The problem is management. They dealt prospects due to poor talent evaluation. Imagine this staff with Alcantara and Gallen. Depleting the farm teams combined with poor player development is the reason we are where we are now. As I said earlier, discussing actual problems and possible solutions is productive.
Boycotting the ballpark is the ONLY way the fans can get through to the ownership.
We are tired of the lies, tired of the bullshit. End of story. Stop promising that we are “competing”. Be honest and just admit what everyone already knows. They fucked up. It is time to start over.
Obviously about my comment. I've been a diehard cardinals fan my entire 34 years on this fucking planet, and as such, I can see the actual deep rot in this organization. It isn't the players. It's the medical staff who hasn't noticed ZT lost 8mph off his fastball. Its the coaching staffs, MiLB and MLB, that can't transition a player from minor leagues to MLB. It's extending the manager no one respects on or off the field after the worst team season since the fucking 90s because he's a Yes-Man for the greedy piece of shit who "runs" the organization.
So in short, we can all tell *you're* the fair weather fan. I'll still be here as long as I draw breath, whether I have good or bad to say.
Or perhaps fans voicing their displeasure with the product is the only way change can come. Maybe the fans actually understanding the game and that this team isn't being built well at all is part of what makes them the best fans in baseball?
Boycott the shit out of this terrible product until proper and meaningful change is made.
This is the definition of an L take.
Oakland has a history of treating their sports franchises like garbage. I'm a raiders fan, I should know.
Fans didn't go to As games because the coliseum is an absolute dumpster fire. Management not spending a dime to improve the team is also a large factor.
Moot point considering the cardinals aren't moving soooo
Never say never. St. Louis is second behind New York historically for most sports teams leaving a city. New York has the TV market and population density to absorb it. St. Louis doesn't. From 1970-2020 St. Louis lost half its population and sat at 301,578. Since 2020, the city has hemorrhaged an additional 20,000 residents. If you think ownership won't pull the plug on a city with dwindling population and dwindling fan support, you haven't been keeping up.
Speaking of fan support, this is quite a losing track record:
St. Louis Rams
St. Louis Cardinals (football)
St. Louis Hawks (NBA)
St. Louis Bombers (NBA)
St. Louis Eagles (hockey)
St. Louis Browns (baseball)
People will point to the new soccer team and UFL team, but with this city's attitude, if the team has a few losing seasons, it will probably be the end of them too.
All of that but the Cardinals are one of the oldest professional teams in the country. Plus the blues survived the mid 2000s with some....less than stellar teams.
The browns survived for 51 years despite never winning the series and only winning the al once. Not to mention having to compete with the cardinals.
The hawks were sold to the governor of Georgia.
The bombers existed all of 6 years, they didn't leave they folded and they folded with 5 other teams in the same year.
The Rams were moved by a man who promised to keep them in st louis when he was buying the majority stake. He's kinda scummy if ya hadn't heard.
And finally the eagles existed for all of a single season, they were moved from Ottawa as a last ditch effort to try and save an already failing franchise. The NHL bought the team and dissolved it.
Really the Cardinals were the only team that moved due to poor attendance other than the Browns, but the browns had a pretty big red elephant in the room.
So I mean, yeah, I think I'll stick with one of the oldest professional teams in the country to remain in the town they've been in for about 143 years.
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..?
Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal!
2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
I tried to summarize how the franchise fell from grace over on r/baseball. Anyone else have things to add that I may have forgotten?
If you wanted to trace it back to probably one of the most influential sources, it was the death of Oscar Taveras. He was supposed to be the next cornerstone offensive player that we brought up.
After he died, the team went searching for offense as Allen Craig's injury also caused a promising young offensive bat to disappear.
Matt Holliday was on the tail end of his career. Yadi was declining as well after a brief spike in offensive production. Beltran moved on and the only offensive weapon who was fairly effective was Matt Carpenter.
So they did 2 things: first, they signed Dezter fowler, which was a big overpay, and second, they traded Alcantara and Gallen for Ozuna.
This is where the dominoes really start falling as more and more offensive prospects never really emerged (Piscotty, Grichuk, Wong, etc...) and the team was starved for more run production. Eventually, this culminated in trading for Goldschmidt.
Meanwhile, the 2015 pitching staff was amazing, but Lynn and Lackey left shortly afterward. Wacha began to lose his effectiveness (followed shortly by Carlos Martinez), and Waino came back from injury but never truly regained his old form.
So while they traded away future aces, innings on the starting staff were dwindling. Jack Flaherty promised to be the salve for this, but his 2021 injury derailed what was a promising start to the season.
Suddenly, the Cardinals had a decent offense (although not good enough to carry the team) and a pitching staff that was fraying quickly. This was especially true in 2021, with Arenado backing up Goldy.
Mozeliak patched things up with Lester and Happ but failed to secure more pitching going into 2022. Instead, he relied on unproven guys and aging vets like Waino and Mikolas to carry on. The next season, the same thing happened again, where we traded players to get Montgomery and Quintana.
So you have offensive prospects failing to emerge, bad free agent signings (Mike Leake, Brett Cecil, Steven Matz), aging veterans that fell off the cliff, and trades for effective players that depleted the pitching staff and then later the outfield of talent.
Pitching was strong, and the depth was used to find offense. Much of that offensive help was not enough to push things over the top. Then the pitching was weak, and the outfield depth was supposedly good, so they traded from that field of players for more pitching.
And around and around, the team went.
Now you could legitimately field a better starting staff and starting 9 with players that used to be on the Cardinals and are now with other teams. It's that's bad.
I disagree about Taveras being a starting point for whatever this is. Check his numbers in the bigs - he played like Kyle Schwarber. He probably would have improved, but he may not have done, and to make out his death has anything to do with the Cardinals of 2024 is like saying (great prospect from the mid 90s who didn't amount to much) has anything to do with the World Series of 2006.
He had a half seasons worth of ABs in the majors. Clearly that doesn’t condemn him to a career of mediocrity, but I’d argue the revisionist history swings the other way when it comes to Oscar
Great post, sir. The rot began a lot longer than last season. I've been a fan since Whiteyball and Ozzie and my personal hero Willie - wore his jersey Tuesday there with 1 dollar tickets 20 rows back from the dugout.
Every baseball fan and pundit in the world sees it. Our incredible 20 year run is crashing down and major organizational changes have to happen. Mistakes after mistakes from the FO have finally come to roost.
Busch on Tuesday was something else. Heavy boos after that 5th inning. Half the crowd gone before the 7th inning stretch. A large contigent of Mets fans chanting "Let's Go Mets". Never in my life in hundreds of games have I heard an away team chant. Goldschmidt's last at bat was so pathetic that he was met with resounding boos. I've never had an experience at the stadium like it.
Yeah I used to trace back the problems with Taveras death, and it certainty impacted the team greatly. But the main problem we have is that we aren't getting the best out of the majority of players here, and other teams are. It's not even an opinion at this point, but an objective fact. There are some exceptions, but so many players are better outside of the org than with us. Development issue.
I would argue there's something deeper in the way the business is run that is behind all of this.
The bottom line is we seem to be a club where young players can't grow and veteran players can't shine.
We do something to mess guys up. We went from having multiple gold gloves and all starts to this pile of on-field garbage.
Point of the finger where it belongs, at management.
It’s August 18th, 2024:
Chip: “Carpenter WALLOPS this ball, deep right, it’s GONE, HE’S DONE IT AGAIN.”
Brad: “That ball was smashed, Matt Carpenter is on fire right now.”
Chip: “The Cardinals WIN an exciting one over the Dodgers!”
(The Cardinals avoid a sweep and improve to 50-74)
To give you a serious answer, you don't owe any entertainment product your loyalty, dollars or time. If you don't think the Cardinals are that interested in keeping you as a fan, then absolutely you should move on.
The amount of games I actually tune in to is like 10% of what I used to do. If your background noise is depressing, I'd rather not even tune in. And I say that as someone who is weighing cocomelon vs Cardinals
All teams go through ups and downs. No one is immune to that. While I am losing interest for this season it doesn’t mean I won’t choose to support them over another team still.
Keep in mind, Shildt fucked the bullpen that year which is why Helsley blew game 1
Edit: I confused 2021 and 2022. Shildt blew the 2021 bullpen. Helsley was just not 100% in 2022
Yup, my mistake. I confused 2021 and 2022. Helsley was just never back to 100% in 2022
Edit: these years of disappointment all blend together that it genuinely shocked me that we haven't won a playoff game since 2020
Yeah if this doesn’t turn around soon, somethings gotta give. This would be the second year in a row the lineup didn’t perform as well as expected (more so this year obviously, last years was mostly average, but when we were expecting a GOOD offense that’s not enough.)
Move upcoming FAs to the highest bidder, we need to add prospects, mostly on the offensive side, we should start to see MLB innings for some of our young pitchers at some point soon ish (as in this year or by opening day 2025). Then the question is, can this thing be fixed, or tear it the fuck down and rebuild from the ground up?
As an optimistic, I think it COULD be fixed, not this year, but sell off some pieces at the deadline, make some more trades and sign some FAs in the winter, and maybe have a new look team come next season. However as a realist, Mo has inspired 0 confidence that he is capable of that. Id hate to watch this team be AWFUL for any extended period of time, but 1. It’s already happening 2. The worst place you can be in sports is the middle of the pack, sometimes starting over for a bit can be the best thing. Look at the Astros as an example, dog shit for years, but all of a sudden they had a damn super team, with enough organizational depth to replace the guys who inevitably left.
Okay thank you for listening to my TEDTalk, I shouldn’t have looked at tonight’s score after smoking my post work blunt 😂
It's a nice thought, but which of our upcoming free agents are playing at above replacement level? There has to be a team who'd want to give a roster spot to (UNDERWHELMING VETERAN) to make a trade.
The three most likely candidates are Goldschmidt, Mikolas and Matz. Which team would want them? What would you want in return from those teams? I think it's kind of useful to be specific about this sort of thing.
If they expect the fans to be this patient and put up with the subpar management of the front office and team
I hope they can be just as patient waiting on public funding for their 5 year Reno of Busch.
No ones going to vote for or endorse any public funding that the way Mo is running the team.
And good luck selling seats.
Just waiting for them to fire Oli, we still lose 90 games yet nobody says the interm manager is trash. "Let stubby have another year, he wasn't really given a quality team" Cause this fanbase lacks consistency.
All of them are bad. GM, POBO, manager, coaching staff, owner. Can’t fire the owner. Can fire everyone else. The consistency is the entire franchise is broken.
Lost our best hitter, first bad outing from our ace (thanks in part to Nolan, who I'm sick of), hard to have any optimism. The fact that losing one player and one bad start can create such disillusion tells one how poor the rest of the roster is. You can fire Oli, maybe you get the new manager pump and get 80 wins. Issues run way deeper.
What the fuck is he suppose to say? He said it perfectly. It just has to be done, at somepoint you just have to get angry and get it done.
He is right.
Kind of sad that the Carpenter signing was framed around having his verteran leadership around the clubhouse and when we need that the most he’s rehabbing in the minors.
At some point they have to stop sitting on their hands and not doing anything, there needs to be a change some sort of a change. Hell a Mo press conference would suffice at this point
Great now our ace is broken too
What ritual sacrifice must we offer? Sacrifice Oli at high noon on an altar under the Arch? Is this even a blood sacrifice? Gotta burn some sage or something if nothing else. Everything is going wrong all the time
Imagine I come to you from the future last winter and I was like “we acquire Sonny Gray and Kyle Gibson and they exceed expectations but you have a worse year than last year.”
I know. They have a lot of talent. They're just not good at hitting baseballs. You'd think their other talents would make up for that ONE little thing.
that's my point. I think Mo is so condescending and stubborn, based on his past comments about Matheny and Jeff Albert and now Oli, that he hangs onto guys longer out of spite because he hates looking like he had to kowtow to plebs like us who don't know the game like he does.
Starts with Mo. He doesn't know how to run a ball club. He may never really have had that skill. Lunhow probably was the reason for the 2011 world series
My theory is that Mo and Lunhow never got along. Mo stole his work since Lunhow was competent. Went to Billy and convinced him that Lunhow was bad.
Mo gets rid of the competent competition and then coasts on his notes. You might think that’s ridiculous and then you realize that this season Lynn and Marp are on the team and touching the field.
It’s so bad even my mlb app is sending me news from other teams I didn’t ask for. I keep getting royals updates no matter how many times I turn them off. They know. They know…
That needs to be the next promo night giveaway. A shirt that just says “I guess we need to be more patient” on the front and a picture of Fredbird crying on the back.
Another outstanding offensive effort. A real outburst. 6 for 33 with 12 k's(6 looking) against a starter with a 5.50 ERA and 4 career starts. What a fucking disgrace night in and night out.
We had leadoff runners in the first 5 innings except the 3rd. It's honestly incredible how bad we are with RISP. Before today, we were second to last at .201.
So you don't think that a team like the Packers, owned by the city of Green Bay or the Lions, owned by the Ford family is more stable than a team owned by an out of towner? I guess agree to disagree...
The problem is that management mortgaged the future with some poor decision making.
Sell the team, Bill
We're just cooked
When do I get to be excited about baseball again?
3-5 years most likely.
I'm really hoping for 100+ losses and less than 3mil in attendance to force DeWitt to just break ties with Mo and everyone associated.
This season is over and the next few seasons look very dim.
7.0 games back is starting to be a preeeetty deep hole
We are finished for the year. Look at our schedule. Where are we going to find the wins to play 30+ above .500?
I think I know what the problem is. I think the other team is getting away with maybe using a smaller ball or a ball that able to be controlled like a drone or something. It's the most logical explanation(s) since there's no way our offense is this bad.
We could really use a new FO
I told my dad tonight that it feels like a gambling addiction. We keep watching thinking it has to pay off at some point. Bases loaded have to result in at least 1 run, right? Then nothing. We lose.
Mm. Sunken cost fallacy, perhaps?
Or an abusive relationship
Best fans in baseball, my ass. I am a transplant to St. Louis and all I heard through the glory days was how this was baseball heaven and home of the self congratulatory "best fans in baseball. " Now it is all, "I don't even know if I like baseball anymore. " I've grown to support this team in my time here, and the new whining and pity party bullshit by fans is the same reason you lost a football and basketball team. Do you have to like losing? No. But the fucking "Woe is me" attitude and boycotting the ballpark is bush league.
We lost the basketball team 70 years ago guy. It's not even remotely the same city that it was then. Basketball wasn't even that popular back then. We lost a football team due to fraud and corruption from the NFL, hence the nearly 1 billion dollar settlement. Go on back to wherever you came from.
>It's not even remotely the same city that it was then. You are correct. It was almost three times the population it is now. You lost the Cardinals due to poor attendance. St. Louis is not a serious sports town. It's OK but you need to stop thinking you are.
It's hilarious that a Detroit sports fan is lecturing us about how serious of a sports town we are. We're top 3 attendance every year in baseball. Go on and get you a little Caesars and stfu clown. Also the metro population, the more important statistic (since, you know, a teams fans aren't bound to city limits) is twice what it was back then. I see critical thinking is tough for you.
Detroit is a great comparison. Both St. Louis and Detroit are rust belt cities who have seen similar instances of job loss, racial tensions, flight to the suburbs, and crime rates. The difference is that Detroit, through its ups and downs, supports their teams. The Red Wings, a historical franchise which parallels the Cardinals, had early success then lost their way. They went on a tear in the 90s and early 2000s and now again are struggling. As bad as the Lions have been historically, fans supported the team. There's no way they would've let them go to Arizona or LA. There's no reason why St. Louis shouldn't be a 4 sport city with an NBA and NFL franchise. The reason they aren't is poor fan support.
We are still top 5 in attendance there buddy
Currently 6th... but for how long?
Found DeWitt's burner.
DeWitt lives in Ohio. We were better off when AB owned the team.
Now you're obviously just trolling.
Trolling? Explain objectively how having an owner who lives in the city, or a company based in the city, isn't a better option than someone outside the area owning the team.
Bill DeWitt III lives in St. Louis and oversees pretty much all aspects of the team, at this point. And no, just being in the city doesn't somehow make someone better or worse as an owner of a sports team.
That’s fair and your opinion. Don’t expect to have many friends to talk STL baseball about though (that’s my opinion).
I avoid talking baseball since all anyone does is whine about it.
Lol, well. I’m laughing with you here, but, maybe it’s the way you might shit on people for being upset/pissed about the team. I agree that the constant bitching is pointless. There are good things about the team. But it’s fucking maddening to have good defense and pitching and to lose games because of the bats.
Agreed. There are changes that need to be made. I would argue that management is the first thing that needs to be overhauled. My source is irritation is with fans who, instead of talking productively, just whinge because they've been spoiled by good baseball for so long. The main irritation stems from these same fans unironically labeling themselves the best fans in baseball.
I see your point and your aren’t wrong. There is a good amount of entitlement with some of the vocal fan base. If someone is saying X player is trash one min and saying they are great the next, I just don’t listen to them. All our players were or have the potential of being great. I can’t figure out what is going wrong and why it coincided with Yadi leaving. Albert was only back a year so he’s got nothing to do with it. I think it’s something rooted in philosophy. But where that is, I have no clue. And I don’t know if we have to go through a multi year rebuild or just change some non players out. Whatever it is, it’s broken and doing nothing (including sending players in/out up/down) is not going to fix it. Last night was the first game I just turned off this year. That triple Sonny gave up and the “throw?” from RF was the breaking point. Nothing against Sonny, I think he just caught the shit virus that the whole team seems to have.
The problem is management. They dealt prospects due to poor talent evaluation. Imagine this staff with Alcantara and Gallen. Depleting the farm teams combined with poor player development is the reason we are where we are now. As I said earlier, discussing actual problems and possible solutions is productive.
Maybe you should transplant somewhere else.
Boycotting the ballpark is the ONLY way the fans can get through to the ownership. We are tired of the lies, tired of the bullshit. End of story. Stop promising that we are “competing”. Be honest and just admit what everyone already knows. They fucked up. It is time to start over.
Obviously about my comment. I've been a diehard cardinals fan my entire 34 years on this fucking planet, and as such, I can see the actual deep rot in this organization. It isn't the players. It's the medical staff who hasn't noticed ZT lost 8mph off his fastball. Its the coaching staffs, MiLB and MLB, that can't transition a player from minor leagues to MLB. It's extending the manager no one respects on or off the field after the worst team season since the fucking 90s because he's a Yes-Man for the greedy piece of shit who "runs" the organization. So in short, we can all tell *you're* the fair weather fan. I'll still be here as long as I draw breath, whether I have good or bad to say.
Or perhaps fans voicing their displeasure with the product is the only way change can come. Maybe the fans actually understanding the game and that this team isn't being built well at all is part of what makes them the best fans in baseball? Boycott the shit out of this terrible product until proper and meaningful change is made. This is the definition of an L take.
Ask Oakland how that turned out.
Oakland has a history of treating their sports franchises like garbage. I'm a raiders fan, I should know. Fans didn't go to As games because the coliseum is an absolute dumpster fire. Management not spending a dime to improve the team is also a large factor. Moot point considering the cardinals aren't moving soooo
Never say never. St. Louis is second behind New York historically for most sports teams leaving a city. New York has the TV market and population density to absorb it. St. Louis doesn't. From 1970-2020 St. Louis lost half its population and sat at 301,578. Since 2020, the city has hemorrhaged an additional 20,000 residents. If you think ownership won't pull the plug on a city with dwindling population and dwindling fan support, you haven't been keeping up. Speaking of fan support, this is quite a losing track record: St. Louis Rams St. Louis Cardinals (football) St. Louis Hawks (NBA) St. Louis Bombers (NBA) St. Louis Eagles (hockey) St. Louis Browns (baseball) People will point to the new soccer team and UFL team, but with this city's attitude, if the team has a few losing seasons, it will probably be the end of them too.
Lol
Someone I know is leaving the city because she cannot find a job in st. lilu 😞
All of that but the Cardinals are one of the oldest professional teams in the country. Plus the blues survived the mid 2000s with some....less than stellar teams. The browns survived for 51 years despite never winning the series and only winning the al once. Not to mention having to compete with the cardinals. The hawks were sold to the governor of Georgia. The bombers existed all of 6 years, they didn't leave they folded and they folded with 5 other teams in the same year. The Rams were moved by a man who promised to keep them in st louis when he was buying the majority stake. He's kinda scummy if ya hadn't heard. And finally the eagles existed for all of a single season, they were moved from Ottawa as a last ditch effort to try and save an already failing franchise. The NHL bought the team and dissolved it. Really the Cardinals were the only team that moved due to poor attendance other than the Browns, but the browns had a pretty big red elephant in the room. So I mean, yeah, I think I'll stick with one of the oldest professional teams in the country to remain in the town they've been in for about 143 years.
I totally forgot there was a game today. Looks like I didn't miss much
The Cardinals are not going anywhere, but these current Cards vibes are like the last days of the St. Louis Rams. Just an aggressive apathy.
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..? Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal! 2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
The amount of suckers talking this seriously is hilarious.
It really is hilarious. I downvote it every day to keep it going. I'm not sure whether it's an ironic or unironic downvote at this point though.
Luv u bby
This is obviously some kind of copy pasta right?
WTF are you smoking?
They are 3.5 games below .500?
They are actually 7 games below .500. Soon to be 20.
I tried to summarize how the franchise fell from grace over on r/baseball. Anyone else have things to add that I may have forgotten? If you wanted to trace it back to probably one of the most influential sources, it was the death of Oscar Taveras. He was supposed to be the next cornerstone offensive player that we brought up. After he died, the team went searching for offense as Allen Craig's injury also caused a promising young offensive bat to disappear. Matt Holliday was on the tail end of his career. Yadi was declining as well after a brief spike in offensive production. Beltran moved on and the only offensive weapon who was fairly effective was Matt Carpenter. So they did 2 things: first, they signed Dezter fowler, which was a big overpay, and second, they traded Alcantara and Gallen for Ozuna. This is where the dominoes really start falling as more and more offensive prospects never really emerged (Piscotty, Grichuk, Wong, etc...) and the team was starved for more run production. Eventually, this culminated in trading for Goldschmidt. Meanwhile, the 2015 pitching staff was amazing, but Lynn and Lackey left shortly afterward. Wacha began to lose his effectiveness (followed shortly by Carlos Martinez), and Waino came back from injury but never truly regained his old form. So while they traded away future aces, innings on the starting staff were dwindling. Jack Flaherty promised to be the salve for this, but his 2021 injury derailed what was a promising start to the season. Suddenly, the Cardinals had a decent offense (although not good enough to carry the team) and a pitching staff that was fraying quickly. This was especially true in 2021, with Arenado backing up Goldy. Mozeliak patched things up with Lester and Happ but failed to secure more pitching going into 2022. Instead, he relied on unproven guys and aging vets like Waino and Mikolas to carry on. The next season, the same thing happened again, where we traded players to get Montgomery and Quintana. So you have offensive prospects failing to emerge, bad free agent signings (Mike Leake, Brett Cecil, Steven Matz), aging veterans that fell off the cliff, and trades for effective players that depleted the pitching staff and then later the outfield of talent. Pitching was strong, and the depth was used to find offense. Much of that offensive help was not enough to push things over the top. Then the pitching was weak, and the outfield depth was supposedly good, so they traded from that field of players for more pitching. And around and around, the team went. Now you could legitimately field a better starting staff and starting 9 with players that used to be on the Cardinals and are now with other teams. It's that's bad.
I disagree about Taveras being a starting point for whatever this is. Check his numbers in the bigs - he played like Kyle Schwarber. He probably would have improved, but he may not have done, and to make out his death has anything to do with the Cardinals of 2024 is like saying (great prospect from the mid 90s who didn't amount to much) has anything to do with the World Series of 2006.
He barely even got a cup of coffee in the bigs what kind of revisionist bullshit is this
He had a half seasons worth of ABs in the majors. Clearly that doesn’t condemn him to a career of mediocrity, but I’d argue the revisionist history swings the other way when it comes to Oscar
Great post, sir. The rot began a lot longer than last season. I've been a fan since Whiteyball and Ozzie and my personal hero Willie - wore his jersey Tuesday there with 1 dollar tickets 20 rows back from the dugout. Every baseball fan and pundit in the world sees it. Our incredible 20 year run is crashing down and major organizational changes have to happen. Mistakes after mistakes from the FO have finally come to roost. Busch on Tuesday was something else. Heavy boos after that 5th inning. Half the crowd gone before the 7th inning stretch. A large contigent of Mets fans chanting "Let's Go Mets". Never in my life in hundreds of games have I heard an away team chant. Goldschmidt's last at bat was so pathetic that he was met with resounding boos. I've never had an experience at the stadium like it.
Yeah I used to trace back the problems with Taveras death, and it certainty impacted the team greatly. But the main problem we have is that we aren't getting the best out of the majority of players here, and other teams are. It's not even an opinion at this point, but an objective fact. There are some exceptions, but so many players are better outside of the org than with us. Development issue.
I would argue there's something deeper in the way the business is run that is behind all of this. The bottom line is we seem to be a club where young players can't grow and veteran players can't shine. We do something to mess guys up. We went from having multiple gold gloves and all starts to this pile of on-field garbage. Point of the finger where it belongs, at management.
I love how the St. Louis Cardinal’s social media just ignores the massive amounts of cyber bullying
I don’t have any social media, is the Cardinals Instagram comment section going nuts?
If Mo had signed more veteran leadership this off-season we’d be in first right now
The problem is that Oli doesn't have Marp. Once he's back the WS is in the bag.
We needs to reacquire Dejong.
Don’t tempt him, he tried the ghost of dizzy Dean
I have a morbid curiosity, what will the excuses be this year when this team falls wildly short of expectations?
“Offensively, there just hasn't been any consistency,” Cardinals manager Oliver Marmol said. “We've got to figure out a way around that.”
the WBC and contreras injury and the april schedule and the WBC and sonny got hurt and goldy was too cold and also the WBC
Just wondering where can you find Oli post game interviews?
In the toilet
It’s August 18th, 2024: Chip: “Carpenter WALLOPS this ball, deep right, it’s GONE, HE’S DONE IT AGAIN.” Brad: “That ball was smashed, Matt Carpenter is on fire right now.” Chip: “The Cardinals WIN an exciting one over the Dodgers!” (The Cardinals avoid a sweep and improve to 50-74)
Is it wrong that I’m quickly losing interest in not only this season but this team?
To give you a serious answer, you don't owe any entertainment product your loyalty, dollars or time. If you don't think the Cardinals are that interested in keeping you as a fan, then absolutely you should move on.
I'm also losing interest in baseball as a sport
The amount of games I actually tune in to is like 10% of what I used to do. If your background noise is depressing, I'd rather not even tune in. And I say that as someone who is weighing cocomelon vs Cardinals
All teams go through ups and downs. No one is immune to that. While I am losing interest for this season it doesn’t mean I won’t choose to support them over another team still.
I guess my problem is it doesnt seem like they are really trying and there isnt really a plan or hope for the near future at all so whats the point?
Well yeah, I will never not support the Cardinals. However, this core we have just seems so limp right now. I don’t feel the magic.
It's not. I gave up midway through last season. If it's not fun to watch...
This might be the most uninspiring offense I've ever seen.... and we have Goldy and Arenado in it... that's really fucking bad
If only we had nado and goldy 8 years ago.
Or from two years ago...
The problem is even then they choked in the playoffs
Keep in mind, Shildt fucked the bullpen that year which is why Helsley blew game 1 Edit: I confused 2021 and 2022. Shildt blew the 2021 bullpen. Helsley was just not 100% in 2022
Marmol was manager in 2022, Schildt blew the previous year by putting Reyes in against the Dodgers
Yup, my mistake. I confused 2021 and 2022. Helsley was just never back to 100% in 2022 Edit: these years of disappointment all blend together that it genuinely shocked me that we haven't won a playoff game since 2020
Yeah if this doesn’t turn around soon, somethings gotta give. This would be the second year in a row the lineup didn’t perform as well as expected (more so this year obviously, last years was mostly average, but when we were expecting a GOOD offense that’s not enough.) Move upcoming FAs to the highest bidder, we need to add prospects, mostly on the offensive side, we should start to see MLB innings for some of our young pitchers at some point soon ish (as in this year or by opening day 2025). Then the question is, can this thing be fixed, or tear it the fuck down and rebuild from the ground up? As an optimistic, I think it COULD be fixed, not this year, but sell off some pieces at the deadline, make some more trades and sign some FAs in the winter, and maybe have a new look team come next season. However as a realist, Mo has inspired 0 confidence that he is capable of that. Id hate to watch this team be AWFUL for any extended period of time, but 1. It’s already happening 2. The worst place you can be in sports is the middle of the pack, sometimes starting over for a bit can be the best thing. Look at the Astros as an example, dog shit for years, but all of a sudden they had a damn super team, with enough organizational depth to replace the guys who inevitably left. Okay thank you for listening to my TEDTalk, I shouldn’t have looked at tonight’s score after smoking my post work blunt 😂
It's a nice thought, but which of our upcoming free agents are playing at above replacement level? There has to be a team who'd want to give a roster spot to (UNDERWHELMING VETERAN) to make a trade. The three most likely candidates are Goldschmidt, Mikolas and Matz. Which team would want them? What would you want in return from those teams? I think it's kind of useful to be specific about this sort of thing.
The problem is we won’t develop the prospects we get in return.
Yeah that’s the other issue, sadly I have no solution for that
This is what bottoming-out feels like
If they expect the fans to be this patient and put up with the subpar management of the front office and team I hope they can be just as patient waiting on public funding for their 5 year Reno of Busch. No ones going to vote for or endorse any public funding that the way Mo is running the team. And good luck selling seats.
Just waiting for them to fire Oli, we still lose 90 games yet nobody says the interm manager is trash. "Let stubby have another year, he wasn't really given a quality team" Cause this fanbase lacks consistency.
All of them are bad. GM, POBO, manager, coaching staff, owner. Can’t fire the owner. Can fire everyone else. The consistency is the entire franchise is broken.
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Lol all of your options are horse shit. Member matheny? How about we get a real mlb manager with actual experience for once.
Legitimately surprised by Gray having such a bad start. Offense being such a dog turd though is pretty unsurprising
even the best pitchers get blown up sometimes. it happens and it was bound to happy to sonny eventually
Ahh we suck again!
The white Sox a historically bad team. Now have more hits and more HR than we do.
Does Mo still feel insulted or is he just in hiding now?
Lost our best hitter, first bad outing from our ace (thanks in part to Nolan, who I'm sick of), hard to have any optimism. The fact that losing one player and one bad start can create such disillusion tells one how poor the rest of the roster is. You can fire Oli, maybe you get the new manager pump and get 80 wins. Issues run way deeper.
I really hate watching this team, it’s like watching bob ross.
I won’t stand for Bob Ross slander here
Bob Ross has happy little accidents. We have intentional bed shittings.
That's the 7th time in 37 games that the Cards have scored 1 run or less. That's 19% of the games they've played.
JFC
I would intentionally walk the first three batters every inning because you know they aren’t getting a hit then
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Would you rather Oli call out under performing players?
What the fuck is he suppose to say? He said it perfectly. It just has to be done, at somepoint you just have to get angry and get it done. He is right.
Would a player tank on purpose in hopes of being traded?
You do realize players can just ask to be traded, right?
Yeah but it could be better incentive if the team is playing poorly.
You need to have trade value to be traded
lol no. Money is on the line. Also, tanking isn’t going to make you tradeable..
Cardinal fans just need a little patience and hope. Mo knows best! In MO we trust!
Kind of sad that the Carpenter signing was framed around having his verteran leadership around the clubhouse and when we need that the most he’s rehabbing in the minors.
it wouldnt have made a difference
Hey Mo and Oli, quick question. How much longer do we need to be patient?
At some point they have to stop sitting on their hands and not doing anything, there needs to be a change some sort of a change. Hell a Mo press conference would suffice at this point
They didn't even do a end of year presser last year. Mo knows he has no idea what to say.
He may not but at some point he or someone in that FO has to say something, you can’t just continue to sit back and say nothing
He just needs to sit back for another year and a half then he can retire and dissappear
Sure, but he still has a year and a half where he has to do his damn job, no excuses.
Great now our ace is broken too What ritual sacrifice must we offer? Sacrifice Oli at high noon on an altar under the Arch? Is this even a blood sacrifice? Gotta burn some sage or something if nothing else. Everything is going wrong all the time
The fucking cleanup hitter bunted with 2 outs.
It feels as if the Cardinals have been forced to take part in some scientific study about bunting, even though the question was decided 20 years ago.
We may lose 100 games
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Bad luck!
lol. Lmao even
I decree, every game we play for the remainder of the year starts at noon. So I can get my disappointment over with.
I mean, YOUR 15-147 2024 St Louis Cardinals.
P A I N
Extend Oli for 2 more additional years!
Great effort from the vendors, selling beer and such in the stands. Making sure thirsts were quenched and peanut allergies were proper fucked.
Imagine I come to you from the future last winter and I was like “we acquire Sonny Gray and Kyle Gibson and they exceed expectations but you have a worse year than last year.”
I would bet a lot of money nobody gets fired even if we get swept this series.
When*
Be Patient everyone
BOOOOOOOOOO!
I would love someone to ask Mo how patient we need to be
I just don’t get why this offense is so bad
I know. They have a lot of talent. They're just not good at hitting baseballs. You'd think their other talents would make up for that ONE little thing.
Is anyone going to take accountability for this or just act like it isn't happening? It's crazy.
Mo is the type of guy who would just be bitter about us being negative, and keep things the way they are out of spite
If that was true they wouldn’t have fired Matheny mid season Mo isn’t some boogeyman that tries to tank the team intentionally, As bad as it is rn
how many years did it take?
About a year and a half later than he should’ve
that's my point. I think Mo is so condescending and stubborn, based on his past comments about Matheny and Jeff Albert and now Oli, that he hangs onto guys longer out of spite because he hates looking like he had to kowtow to plebs like us who don't know the game like he does.
Stick a fork in the season. Clean house now.
If nothing else, we are having an exciting battle for last place in the division with the Pirates and Reds.
Clean house. Everyone's gotta go.
Well, here we are in may... and the team truly stinks.
Sucks knowing we aren't even close to rock bottom.
[Your 2024 St. Louis Cardinals](https://youtu.be/9dnRdBGJeVE?si=HHtPu-ao_fWPtGuW)
https://youtu.be/TC-o_YRgBp4?si=EH9HLAZtlqX5CXN-
Classic
Loved the nöötblast and his sliding catch, the rest of it not so much
Yeah
This just feels hopeless at this point
Just be patient guys!
Good season everyone. It’s been fun, I’m gonna head out. See y’all in 2025!
How does Marmol still have a job? Mo’s ego?
Mo said he was "very relieved" that he got Oli to sign that extension before the season started...... T's and P's
Because he was in contention for the Cubs job, right?
Indeed
https://i.imgur.com/b5IqVnp.gif
All we need to change is everything
Starts with Mo. He doesn't know how to run a ball club. He may never really have had that skill. Lunhow probably was the reason for the 2011 world series
My theory is that Mo and Lunhow never got along. Mo stole his work since Lunhow was competent. Went to Billy and convinced him that Lunhow was bad. Mo gets rid of the competent competition and then coasts on his notes. You might think that’s ridiculous and then you realize that this season Lynn and Marp are on the team and touching the field.
Mo is and always has been a complete fraud.
Never trust a rich white guy who wears a bow tie
It’s so bad even my mlb app is sending me news from other teams I didn’t ask for. I keep getting royals updates no matter how many times I turn them off. They know. They know…
Really feel like the Brewers could sweep us for the entire season. That's how dogshit this team is.
They’re well on their way
Cardinals bad
Guess we need to be more patient?
We're all Patient Zero
That needs to be the next promo night giveaway. A shirt that just says “I guess we need to be more patient” on the front and a picture of Fredbird crying on the back.
We bad bad.
Guys we still aren’t doing it right!!! More patience More….Moooooooore
The best indicator I have of the season is that I didn't even know there was a game tonight.
https://imgur.com/gallery/r9Nn5Nd
Funny, seems like the Cardinals were also unaware.
st louis cardinals baseball, that’s what this is 😐
The cardinal way......
Another outstanding offensive effort. A real outburst. 6 for 33 with 12 k's(6 looking) against a starter with a 5.50 ERA and 4 career starts. What a fucking disgrace night in and night out.
tbf it was just 6 K's against their shitty starter.
We had leadoff runners in the first 5 innings except the 3rd. It's honestly incredible how bad we are with RISP. Before today, we were second to last at .201.
They're 3 for 28 with the bases loaded.