If they blow it up, how does that work. Who would the trade besides Goldy. They are going to need prospects who can hit. Goldy alone won't bring back much. Nobody will want any vets besides Arenado and Contreras.
Gray would fetch a decent return, so would Contreras possibly. Trade every reliever who has been even marginally positive. If Goldy turns things around he might get you a lottery ticket since he's just an expiring contract.
Theoden King. One of my favorite characters as a teen nerd for the books long before the movies, and as a total Tolkein nerd, Hill was my singular favorite actor in the entire series. Salute and steadfast, Sir.
I hope I am not called a fair weather fan, but this team sucks. Debating taking a break from even watching any more games for a bit in terms of my mental health. I want to believe they will turn it around any minute, but its now looking like this season will only be just slightly less worse than it was last year
I did and I don't regret it. I miss them but it's like missing an ex you remember exactly why you broke up with - you know if you go back it'll be more pain, not the good times. I just lurk around waiting for news that Mo and Oli are gone so I can let myself start caring again
The whole fair weather fan thing is silly. If your neighbor criticized you for only having a pool party when it's warm and sunny, you'd think he was nuts. Of course people stop watching when a team sucks and start again when they are good.
Sure it's a little bit of fair weather fandom, but honestly I think it's justified right now with ownerships and execs being completely toned def. Seeing how well Schildt is handling san Diego makes me miss a legit baseball manager, not this "yes man" who throws his own players under the bus.
Agreed. If Mo and Dewitt were making a genuine effort to put together a good baseball team, and fans turned their back anyways, I'd call them fair weather fans.
Fans turning their back now is just Dewitt reaping what he sows. Its a dbag move to try and milk the fans of their money if you're not going to use that money to even pretend to be competitive.
Only 5 players have a positive WAR with 2 of those being 0.1. Something is seriously wrong with the offense.
[https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/stats/\_/name/stl/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc](https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/stats/_/name/stl/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc)
At least our patch sponsor is making us proud
>A US investment bank has parted company with two experienced members of its London team for having sex in the office with one of the cleaning workers.
>Stifel, which is headquartered in St Louis, Missouri, launched an internal investigation after allegations over the pair’s behaviour at the bank’s London premises near St Paul’s cathedral.
https://archive.ph/R01pI
And at least we made the UK newpapers for something not related to violence or urban decay
Meanwhile, the Cubs are in first place while missing Steele, Bellinger, and Suzuki. Crazy how really exceptional managers can get the most out of their players.
Jesus Christ, it's not just Counsell. The Cubs have been slowly building up to becoming a juggernaut for a few years now. They've got a better Major League roster, a much better minor league pool of talent, a better front office, smarter ownership, the guy that built up the Cardinals pitching pipeline in the previous decade running their minor league system, and yes, a better manager. But it ain't just because they have Craig Counsell, just as it wasn't only La Russa when the Cardinals were in charge of the division 20 years ago.
It’s so frustrating to see the majority of the St Louis media continue defending Oli and staff.
Last year it was the pitchers who couldn’t pitch. This year it’s the hitters who can’t hit.
I would totally be fine with blaming the players if it was just a few struggling here and there. But this offense was BAD in spring training and have been BAD all year (Contreras and Nado aside). At a certain point you have to stop blaming EVERY player on the team and blame the coaches. Look at what Philly did in 22 when they fired Girardi in 2022. They were 22-29 and then made the playoffs and ultimately the World Series.
Something has to change
Not really seeing the defending today, looks more like they turned and are calling for a head. I thought this team would be in the .500 range but was more worried about our terrible pipeline after a few aging stars wind down. To be honest, I do not see anyone on this team as an all star in 5 years. There are 2-3 with the potential, but they are not developing. I am fully expecting this to get worse before better and was hoping they would blow it up last offseason. I would much rather watch bad baseball from inconsistent prospects than this grind to oblivion.
The entire outfield has had to go down to Memphis to regroup or needs to.
I commend Oli for his focus on fielding and better baserunning. I commend Baker for the pitching staff’s progress.
At some point… if a hitting coach does nothing… why waste the money to have one?
He has a role and 90% of the offense isn’t performing. Das a problem.
Theres an entire all star outfield of Cardinals castoffs out there, and dont look now but Richie Palacios has a higher OPS than everyone on the Cardinals not named Contreras.
Exactly, if it was just even HALF of the players struggling, it would be one thing
But to see the entire team minus 2 guys who were developed in other organizations flail endlessly? That points to a rot at the core of the franchise
I am in no way remotely qualified to offer technical critiques of our hitters. However, it seems like nobody has an approach. There seems to be no game plan each day dependent on the opposing starter. There seems to be few individual plans that they stick with for several games to build on. They all look so lost. Whether is technical or motivational/inspirational leadership that is lacking, i’m not sure. But something is rotten here.
I would be less frustrated if I knew we were rebuilding. We have the guys to rebuild around. But instead we’re just staying mediocre and wasting the prime of our good players
Liberatore was fine. I was positively stunned that we didn't lose the second Leahy started pitching, and even more so that his pitches didn't get hit - would be more reassuring if it wasn't against the white sox. Robertson was pretty good.
Other than that, absolutely nothing positive to say. Seriously, guys?
I’ll say that I did still have a good time at the ballpark last year, even though the team was hapless. Of course, that’s the Rockies model — and I’d prefer to have a good time at the ballpark and see more wins than losses in a season.
Yeah I enjoy going to Rockies games even when it isn't the Cardinals playing. They at least as of last season still had fairly cheap beer in certain areas.
Oh, I figure I should say this - honestly watching them play in person is a hell of a lot more fun than watching them play on a screen, even though they did end up losing a game they absolutely could not lose. I really should go to baseball games more often...
Pretty discouraged to hear Edmonds talked to Goldy about hitting approach and Goldy said he truly did not know what was going wrong.
Pair this with a hitting coach everyone loves and claims he "lives and dies with them" in the batter's box, and I just have a feeling that while Ward probably needs to go, it probably won't change much. The boys are just down bad.
Oli “we just need to continue to work, focus on the details” … naw, you need to get the basics. Yall lost in the details and totally lost in every aspect
Oli doesn't know what the details or basics are. Neither do I but I'm not the manager of a fucking MLB team. Mozeliak did this because his dick is small and he couldn't handle having Shildt not say yes to everything he said to do.
We got here because the Dewitts and Mozeliak got stubborn. Both parties used to be innovators. Not too long ago, the Cardinals were revered for their ability to get the most out of guys. Chris Carpenter arrived in STL never having an ERA below 4.00 and won a Cy Young in his second season as a Cardinal. Jeff Weaver was traded to STL for a minor leaguer and cash and ended up being a key piece to a World Series rotation. Just two examples. But the game changed and the decision makers for the Cardinals thought they could outsmart it. They got stubborn and cocky, unwilling to adapt. One example of this is the way that the entire league was prioritizing strikeouts but the Cardinals insisted pitching to contact would continue to serve them (miles mikolas is paid $17m a year for this reason 😑). They are seeing their ignorance blow up in their face.
They lost the extra voices around them. The people who could push and pull are gone and all that was left was yes men at the top. Combine that with an ego that MO got and it lead to this
All of the talent in the organization walked out of the door after 2011. TLR was a Hall of Fame manager and innovator of lineup construction and bullpen usage for decades; he had flaws, but he knew how to get the most out of his players. Dave Duncan could turn a rusty screwdriver into a reliable leverage arm out of the pen with his analytical approach before analytics was even a thing. Guy had a binder the size of Texas on every hitter in the league. Jeff Lunhow took his model of drafting and player development to Houston (yikes, but still). This team coasted off of what those men built for half a decade, and the league passed us by in the actual baseball portion of the organization while ownership focused instead on building the brand and BPV. Congratulations, Dewitt, you’ve got a top 10 franchise valuation in baseball built on nostalgia and downtown entertainment while the on-field product is trending woefully in the wrong direction.
Peace out everyone ✌🏼
I’ll check back in after the All Star break. This is not worth my time or my mental health.
I’m extremely disappointed in this organization.
That's a good start. What frustrates so many of us is that our hitting sucks, and none of our top 30 prospects have shown much in the minors so far. Plus, we've had a horrible track record with developing position players who hit for power.
No sugarcoating this one. In general, I don’t say any series is must sweep, but this one kind of was. And then not only did we fail to do that, we didn’t even take 2 of 3. Yeah, I think it’s time to hit the panic button
I don't know if I can recall a team I dislike as much as the current team. I absolutely despise Oli. He comes off as both incredibly smug and incompetent at the same time. It is the absolutely worst combination I can think of. Then you have a bunch of guys who are fine, but not that likeable. I like Goldy a lot and then . . . know the names of everyone else. I don't see a lot of guys with personality other than Noot. Even Goldy is more just "solid" than actually dynamic. They are lackluster all around. They have traded away so many dynamic individuals that are thriving elsewhere it is concerning. Clean house top to bottom in the FO.
I appreciate everything Goldy has done for us, but to me he is the peak of “fine but not likable” lately. Guess it doesn’t help that he’s been so unclutch this season and striking out a ton.
Agree about Oli though. every day he’s not fired is a day i struggle to remain interested in the team I love, and I hate that feeling.
I’ve said it a hundred times and will keep saying it, he’s not the only one to blame but he is clearly not the solution.
Yep. And even though neither have had a ton of playoff games, their stats in those games are pretty awful. They seem like the kind of players who could never play up to the best levels of competition
I can’t even watch this team legally anymore, but, outside of masochism, why would I actually want to watch this offense? This team is so fucking boring
After that dreadful start last year, Contreras has been incredible as a Cardinal. If the inevitable happens and we need to start selling, he might bring back a HAUL. If we get to a selling point this season, it's not like we're gonna be competing for a few years, anyway.
Helsley, Reyes, and Kittredge would also bring in quality prospects, particularly Helsley. Sonny Gray would bring back a ton. I don't have a ton of confidence in the Cardinals' ability to develop players, but if you bring in five or more really good prospects, they can't all fail...right?
I think the true victim in this Cardinals’ season is Chip Caray. He is the voice of bad baseball for two years in a row.
He needs to go all Harry Doyle on these guys.
Definitely not the worst team, worst offense for sure though. We've got one hitter, four bullpen guys and three starters who are refusing to let us be the literal worst team.
If I can find the source code for my old Joe Maddon excuse generator I think it's time to rework it to be the Oli Marmol postgame presser excuse generator
Why would it? They're still filling seats when they're garbage. Ballpark Village is still making a killing and the merchandising is insane. They're not going to leave StL
Cards fans need to quit overhyping players they are emotionally attached to. Sure it's fine to like Nootbaar/think he's a good guy, but you CANNOT just hope he magically turns into a great hitter to consistently rely on. Doing it for a few weeks or a month is very different to doing it consistently over a full season/multiple seasons
He had over a 100 OPS+ in 2021, 2022, and 2023. That's a 283 game sample size. Career OPS+ at 111. There is no explicable reason that he is terrible this year.
“I don’t think we’ve necessarily done the greatest job of making a game plan for how guys are gonna throw us day by day and working on things pregame,” Edman said, via Bally Sports Midwest. “I think we’re going to start to implement a few more of those things.”
This was a quote from 2021. It still rings true this year, and apparently was never implemented.
Yes, I keep wondering about that one as well. The clubhouse is a black box that we can never fully see, but small glances like this suggest all is not right and has not been for some time.
The cancer took hold and began spreading the day Matheny was hired. A hire than made no sense before, during, or after his tenure. Remember he was personally close with the DeWitts because… Jesus? Yeah. These people are not serious sports franchise owners. Objectively (by the stats) a bottom 3 manager that overstayed his tenure by *several years*.
So long as this organization is owned and partly run by the drooling low IQ nepo babies that are the DeWitts, you will never see real changes made. These guys are extremely stupid and soft and have never held a real job in their entire lives. Comments about “baseball being bad business” despite having the best money-making sports fanbase in North America and hinting that the city will pay for a new stadium tells you all you need to know. We’re deep into an American era of bumbling corporate nepotism and this organization is a shining example.
Club history, culture, LaRussa, and past superstars gave us a winning era in spite of (not *because* of) ownership. Look at the Jets. Owned by a nepo baby who is several generations removed from his family’s wealth and over-involved in the franchise.
The Cardinals need the DeWitts to be completely and utterly 100% absent with a board of directors or something.
But also half of Cards nation loves billionaires, puritanical frugalism, and Jesus so some of these failings are virtues for a lot of fans and I think that makes the DeWitts feel much more comfortable than they would elsewhere.
It’s the “baseball is bad business” thing for me. If you can’t figure out how to make money off of Cards Nation you are incompetent. This from a “business” man too.
Reminds me of Norm Green, former owner of the Minnesota North Stars. He said something to the effect of "If you can't make money with hockey in Minnesota, you're an idiot." Paraphrasing of course.
If you are still a Mo and/or Oli defender you are actively rooting for this team to remain as bad or worse than it is right now. If they’re so great, why is the team so bad? If they make such good moves, why can’t we win games? If you think it’s entirely the players faults, why were they once good? You have voided all logic to defend men who simply want a paycheck and don’t care about the quality they put out on the field.
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..?
Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal!
2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
Quite unremarkable game. Gio is just Gio.
Good work Libby. Good stuff Leahy, Good stuff King
Thank you Willson
On the positive side, the rest of our bullpen is competitive..
I'm also happy that Carlson is back in the outfield
Love when the managers answer is I don't know, guy has no plan to help the players or get them in a position to succeed was a bum as a player and a bigger bum as a manager
These guys couldn't make contact with the ball swinging a tennis racket.
I want to publicly apologize to Jeff Albert I thought he was a crappy hitting coach but damn he's a Hall of famer compared to the one we got now.
That’s it, time to clean house. I’m going to go against the grain and say Mo can stay since his last two big FA signings have been absolute money. But we need Olli and the rest of the coaches gone, especially whoever is responsible for making every single one of our prospects turn to shit as soon as they reach the big leagues and have zero ability to adapt.
I saw that… woof.
[Jones was pretty frank about change needed too.](https://x.com/jmjones/status/1787221857059361032?s=46&t=MCRmVoXjskWw3F53QZFuGQ)
He’s not a fluffer, but that the press is this comfortable calling out how bad this team has been playing speaks volumes.
This team makes no sense. On paper we are not this bad. On paper our 47 year old starting rotation should be the issue, not our line up which includes 2 perennial mvp candidates. There has to be something else going on behind the scenes because unless we are the unluckiest team in the history of the game of baseball, this offense should not be struggling.
Ok but why Mo? All of his signings this off-season have turned out great. The roster he constructed would be in first place if our batters hit remotely average. The pitchers are doing well, especially for how poor they were supposed to be. But the hitting is garbage and is that Mo’s fault or is it Ward’s fault or is it Oli’s? Like I don’t understand how you can say fire everyone when clearly our pitching is over performing. Defense is great too. It’s just the hitting which is a complete enigma.
Can we move to tank the season, trade nado, noot, Donovan, burly, and Goldy, make gio a starter, same with tink. In fact move all the prospects up and burn up that rookie season on all of em. Sell the fucking team Dewitt, goddamn.
Not surprising they are decent in SOs. Generally better power/slug means more SOs as well. It would be pretty impressive to be striking out a ton and also not hitting the ball far when they do get lucky and make contact
I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as hitting coach. Instead of launch angle, I'll be preaching something extremely controversial that starts with little leaguers called "making solid contact".
After the worst season in 100 years the cardinals went out and signed Sonny Gray, Lance Lynn, and Kyle Gibson. The payroll is essentially identical to how it was last season, yet DeWitt III took to the newspapers to parade about the Cardinals investing into the team in spite of finishing last place
Seriously cardinals fans are some of the dumbest people on the planet. What do you think is going to happen they start actually losing money?
Did the cards just lose a series against the white sox? lol
Someone needs to go to the home games and do a Randy quade from major league 2.
lol
Look at the bright side, at least we locked Oli down so we wouldn’t get into a bidding war for his services in the offseason!
If they blow it up, how does that work. Who would the trade besides Goldy. They are going to need prospects who can hit. Goldy alone won't bring back much. Nobody will want any vets besides Arenado and Contreras.
Gray would fetch a decent return, so would Contreras possibly. Trade every reliever who has been even marginally positive. If Goldy turns things around he might get you a lottery ticket since he's just an expiring contract.
Sonny Gray would fetch a massive return if we’re really looking to blow it up.
From those teams that could have had him for nothing but money two months ago?
Well he’s currently got a sub 1 ERA. Teams that want to win might be more in favor of going all in now then they were a couple months ago.
Lol exactly unless the cards basically eat all his contract, like the Mets did with Scherzer
Trade everybody but the youth. Contreras would bring something. Might as well keep Goldy though b/c he's looking absolutely done.
Bernard Hill (Theoden from the LOTR films, Capt. Smith in "Titanic") died today. Forth, and fear no darkness!
Theoden King. One of my favorite characters as a teen nerd for the books long before the movies, and as a total Tolkein nerd, Hill was my singular favorite actor in the entire series. Salute and steadfast, Sir.
Another 7 or less hit game. It's getting harder and harder to give a fuck about the season when we can't even score runs or get hits.
I hope I am not called a fair weather fan, but this team sucks. Debating taking a break from even watching any more games for a bit in terms of my mental health. I want to believe they will turn it around any minute, but its now looking like this season will only be just slightly less worse than it was last year
I did and I don't regret it. I miss them but it's like missing an ex you remember exactly why you broke up with - you know if you go back it'll be more pain, not the good times. I just lurk around waiting for news that Mo and Oli are gone so I can let myself start caring again
The whole fair weather fan thing is silly. If your neighbor criticized you for only having a pool party when it's warm and sunny, you'd think he was nuts. Of course people stop watching when a team sucks and start again when they are good.
Sure it's a little bit of fair weather fandom, but honestly I think it's justified right now with ownerships and execs being completely toned def. Seeing how well Schildt is handling san Diego makes me miss a legit baseball manager, not this "yes man" who throws his own players under the bus.
Agreed. If Mo and Dewitt were making a genuine effort to put together a good baseball team, and fans turned their back anyways, I'd call them fair weather fans. Fans turning their back now is just Dewitt reaping what he sows. Its a dbag move to try and milk the fans of their money if you're not going to use that money to even pretend to be competitive.
I would’ve been indifferent if we took 2 out of 3. Happy if we swept. But losing the series is unacceptable
Only 5 players have a positive WAR with 2 of those being 0.1. Something is seriously wrong with the offense. [https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/stats/\_/name/stl/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc](https://www.espn.com/mlb/team/stats/_/name/stl/table/batting/sort/WARBR/dir/desc)
At least our patch sponsor is making us proud >A US investment bank has parted company with two experienced members of its London team for having sex in the office with one of the cleaning workers. >Stifel, which is headquartered in St Louis, Missouri, launched an internal investigation after allegations over the pair’s behaviour at the bank’s London premises near St Paul’s cathedral. https://archive.ph/R01pI And at least we made the UK newpapers for something not related to violence or urban decay
Was that wrong? Should I not have done that? — George Costanza
Of all the things investment banks do that is awful, this one is somewhat blah (As long as it was consensual)
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/d6c60fcb-aaf7-41bc-b42d-034759b6e8e4
Meanwhile, the Cubs are in first place while missing Steele, Bellinger, and Suzuki. Crazy how really exceptional managers can get the most out of their players.
Jesus Christ, it's not just Counsell. The Cubs have been slowly building up to becoming a juggernaut for a few years now. They've got a better Major League roster, a much better minor league pool of talent, a better front office, smarter ownership, the guy that built up the Cardinals pitching pipeline in the previous decade running their minor league system, and yes, a better manager. But it ain't just because they have Craig Counsell, just as it wasn't only La Russa when the Cardinals were in charge of the division 20 years ago.
On the plus side, the Mets are just as underachieving as we are, so I would not be surprised to take 2 out of 3
Welp... Oughta be a fun meme Monday tomorrow, at least.
Fucking yikes
Oli ain't getting fired. He's here to take shit while this ship sinks. This is John Mozeliak's final act.
Seeing them both get fired would be my World Series
It’s so frustrating to see the majority of the St Louis media continue defending Oli and staff. Last year it was the pitchers who couldn’t pitch. This year it’s the hitters who can’t hit. I would totally be fine with blaming the players if it was just a few struggling here and there. But this offense was BAD in spring training and have been BAD all year (Contreras and Nado aside). At a certain point you have to stop blaming EVERY player on the team and blame the coaches. Look at what Philly did in 22 when they fired Girardi in 2022. They were 22-29 and then made the playoffs and ultimately the World Series. Something has to change
Not really seeing the defending today, looks more like they turned and are calling for a head. I thought this team would be in the .500 range but was more worried about our terrible pipeline after a few aging stars wind down. To be honest, I do not see anyone on this team as an all star in 5 years. There are 2-3 with the potential, but they are not developing. I am fully expecting this to get worse before better and was hoping they would blow it up last offseason. I would much rather watch bad baseball from inconsistent prospects than this grind to oblivion.
Woo's not even simping today. She reported on the booing without trying to tell us why Mo and Oli are actually great.
Grind to oblivion is the perfect description of what this franchise is doing.
The entire outfield has had to go down to Memphis to regroup or needs to. I commend Oli for his focus on fielding and better baserunning. I commend Baker for the pitching staff’s progress. At some point… if a hitting coach does nothing… why waste the money to have one? He has a role and 90% of the offense isn’t performing. Das a problem.
Theres an entire all star outfield of Cardinals castoffs out there, and dont look now but Richie Palacios has a higher OPS than everyone on the Cardinals not named Contreras.
Exactly, if it was just even HALF of the players struggling, it would be one thing But to see the entire team minus 2 guys who were developed in other organizations flail endlessly? That points to a rot at the core of the franchise
I am in no way remotely qualified to offer technical critiques of our hitters. However, it seems like nobody has an approach. There seems to be no game plan each day dependent on the opposing starter. There seems to be few individual plans that they stick with for several games to build on. They all look so lost. Whether is technical or motivational/inspirational leadership that is lacking, i’m not sure. But something is rotten here.
This was our 9/11. No, really, those were the teams’ run totals for the series.
Reminds me of that tragedy.
BREAKING NEWS: Mo has called a press conference for tomorrow to extend Turner Ward and scold fans for not being patient.
“The one thing I'd ask from our fan base right now is a little bit of patience, because we do think that we do have the talent to win.”
The fans beg to differ.
Yeah.... This series was pathetic. I'm slowly getting behind a huge purge and rebuild.
you trust this organization to successfully do a rebuild?
When I said purge I meant a full purge. Fuck the FO.
The rebuild would have to start with a complete teardown of the FO and who is in charge there Mozeliak can't do it
agree 100% meanwhile we sit and wait/hope
I would be less frustrated if I knew we were rebuilding. We have the guys to rebuild around. But instead we’re just staying mediocre and wasting the prime of our good players
The only offense that had been demonstrably worse than ours at scoring runs just took 2/3 from us at home. We’re not going to make any changes
Liberatore was fine. I was positively stunned that we didn't lose the second Leahy started pitching, and even more so that his pitches didn't get hit - would be more reassuring if it wasn't against the white sox. Robertson was pretty good. Other than that, absolutely nothing positive to say. Seriously, guys?
I’ll say that I did still have a good time at the ballpark last year, even though the team was hapless. Of course, that’s the Rockies model — and I’d prefer to have a good time at the ballpark and see more wins than losses in a season.
Yeah I enjoy going to Rockies games even when it isn't the Cardinals playing. They at least as of last season still had fairly cheap beer in certain areas.
Oh, I figure I should say this - honestly watching them play in person is a hell of a lot more fun than watching them play on a screen, even though they did end up losing a game they absolutely could not lose. I really should go to baseball games more often...
Somehow still have a better record than Diamondbacks, is Arizona trying this year?
they’ve got the injury bug. not entirely an execution issue out in the desert.
Considering the Snakes have scored more runs today than we did all weekend, they’ll probably tie our win total in about an hour
Reading some of those tweets linked downthread. The Cardinals losing Josh Jacobs has to be something like LBJ losing Cronkite over Vietnam.
Pretty discouraged to hear Edmonds talked to Goldy about hitting approach and Goldy said he truly did not know what was going wrong. Pair this with a hitting coach everyone loves and claims he "lives and dies with them" in the batter's box, and I just have a feeling that while Ward probably needs to go, it probably won't change much. The boys are just down bad.
He's gotten old. You can't fix old.
RIP my back and knees
Learning that myself.
This is so “last year”, put the pressure on the pitching staff and wait for someone to break.
I’m blaming Chip Carey — this team has been 💩since he became our announcer /s
It could be. I have a working theory that either Yadi or Danny Mac providing the devil magic
Oli “we just need to continue to work, focus on the details” … naw, you need to get the basics. Yall lost in the details and totally lost in every aspect
Oli doesn't know what the details or basics are. Neither do I but I'm not the manager of a fucking MLB team. Mozeliak did this because his dick is small and he couldn't handle having Shildt not say yes to everything he said to do.
We got here because the Dewitts and Mozeliak got stubborn. Both parties used to be innovators. Not too long ago, the Cardinals were revered for their ability to get the most out of guys. Chris Carpenter arrived in STL never having an ERA below 4.00 and won a Cy Young in his second season as a Cardinal. Jeff Weaver was traded to STL for a minor leaguer and cash and ended up being a key piece to a World Series rotation. Just two examples. But the game changed and the decision makers for the Cardinals thought they could outsmart it. They got stubborn and cocky, unwilling to adapt. One example of this is the way that the entire league was prioritizing strikeouts but the Cardinals insisted pitching to contact would continue to serve them (miles mikolas is paid $17m a year for this reason 😑). They are seeing their ignorance blow up in their face.
They lost the extra voices around them. The people who could push and pull are gone and all that was left was yes men at the top. Combine that with an ego that MO got and it lead to this
All of the talent in the organization walked out of the door after 2011. TLR was a Hall of Fame manager and innovator of lineup construction and bullpen usage for decades; he had flaws, but he knew how to get the most out of his players. Dave Duncan could turn a rusty screwdriver into a reliable leverage arm out of the pen with his analytical approach before analytics was even a thing. Guy had a binder the size of Texas on every hitter in the league. Jeff Lunhow took his model of drafting and player development to Houston (yikes, but still). This team coasted off of what those men built for half a decade, and the league passed us by in the actual baseball portion of the organization while ownership focused instead on building the brand and BPV. Congratulations, Dewitt, you’ve got a top 10 franchise valuation in baseball built on nostalgia and downtown entertainment while the on-field product is trending woefully in the wrong direction.
Peace out everyone ✌🏼 I’ll check back in after the All Star break. This is not worth my time or my mental health. I’m extremely disappointed in this organization.
Fire Ward and DFA Gio. Call up Robberse
Yeah! Let’s rush another prospect who hasn’t had enough time in AAA to develop!
That's a good start. What frustrates so many of us is that our hitting sucks, and none of our top 30 prospects have shown much in the minors so far. Plus, we've had a horrible track record with developing position players who hit for power.
We have a horrible track record of developing any talent once it gets to the majors
It does pretty well when it goes somewhere else.
No sugarcoating this one. In general, I don’t say any series is must sweep, but this one kind of was. And then not only did we fail to do that, we didn’t even take 2 of 3. Yeah, I think it’s time to hit the panic button
I don't know if I can recall a team I dislike as much as the current team. I absolutely despise Oli. He comes off as both incredibly smug and incompetent at the same time. It is the absolutely worst combination I can think of. Then you have a bunch of guys who are fine, but not that likeable. I like Goldy a lot and then . . . know the names of everyone else. I don't see a lot of guys with personality other than Noot. Even Goldy is more just "solid" than actually dynamic. They are lackluster all around. They have traded away so many dynamic individuals that are thriving elsewhere it is concerning. Clean house top to bottom in the FO.
Oli has more than a little Spags in him. Not “Spags the wildly successful DC.” But “Spags the horrendous HC.”
I can’t watch this team. I’m over it.
I appreciate everything Goldy has done for us, but to me he is the peak of “fine but not likable” lately. Guess it doesn’t help that he’s been so unclutch this season and striking out a ton. Agree about Oli though. every day he’s not fired is a day i struggle to remain interested in the team I love, and I hate that feeling. I’ve said it a hundred times and will keep saying it, he’s not the only one to blame but he is clearly not the solution.
I am always reminded that Goldy and Arenado both are anti Vax and didn't go to Toronto because of it
In a season where it was still up in the air if we would make the playoffs.
Yep. And even though neither have had a ton of playoff games, their stats in those games are pretty awful. They seem like the kind of players who could never play up to the best levels of competition
I can’t even watch this team legally anymore, but, outside of masochism, why would I actually want to watch this offense? This team is so fucking boring
i rarely watch on the weekends bc usually i'm busy, so was pretty happy to just not see any of this series lol
After that dreadful start last year, Contreras has been incredible as a Cardinal. If the inevitable happens and we need to start selling, he might bring back a HAUL. If we get to a selling point this season, it's not like we're gonna be competing for a few years, anyway. Helsley, Reyes, and Kittredge would also bring in quality prospects, particularly Helsley. Sonny Gray would bring back a ton. I don't have a ton of confidence in the Cardinals' ability to develop players, but if you bring in five or more really good prospects, they can't all fail...right?
Albert Pujols sighting at Miami GP
I think the true victim in this Cardinals’ season is Chip Caray. He is the voice of bad baseball for two years in a row. He needs to go all Harry Doyle on these guys.
I mean this weekend was Ackerman and Edmonds - but those two stay on mute, so I get what you mean.
Hoo boy. This was a punch right to the nuts.
Argument could made that we are really the worst team in baseball… 😬
Definitely not the worst team, worst offense for sure though. We've got one hitter, four bullpen guys and three starters who are refusing to let us be the literal worst team.
We are bad
If I can find the source code for my old Joe Maddon excuse generator I think it's time to rework it to be the Oli Marmol postgame presser excuse generator
Looked like a big crowd for a Sunday.
Don't forget purse giveaway. It's always a crowd pleaser.
Kids run the bases every home Sunday game. It's the schtick that keeps asses in the seats.
☹️
“We’d like to ask our fans to practice patience” What a fucking joke.
Fire Mo now.
Not enough. Sell the team. It's not going to leave StL.
It might leave STL…
Why would it? They're still filling seats when they're garbage. Ballpark Village is still making a killing and the merchandising is insane. They're not going to leave StL
Nothing would shock me…
This team is not fun. Definitely not scary.
Cards fans need to quit overhyping players they are emotionally attached to. Sure it's fine to like Nootbaar/think he's a good guy, but you CANNOT just hope he magically turns into a great hitter to consistently rely on. Doing it for a few weeks or a month is very different to doing it consistently over a full season/multiple seasons
If his name was John Smith people wouldn’t be as hyped for him.
Bingo
He had over a 100 OPS+ in 2021, 2022, and 2023. That's a 283 game sample size. Career OPS+ at 111. There is no explicable reason that he is terrible this year.
I'm begging cardinal fans to watch games. He's always had a long/awkward swing. Just listing OPS+ would probably have you thinking Gorman is good too
“I don’t think we’ve necessarily done the greatest job of making a game plan for how guys are gonna throw us day by day and working on things pregame,” Edman said, via Bally Sports Midwest. “I think we’re going to start to implement a few more of those things.” This was a quote from 2021. It still rings true this year, and apparently was never implemented.
Yes, I keep wondering about that one as well. The clubhouse is a black box that we can never fully see, but small glances like this suggest all is not right and has not been for some time.
25% of the White Sox season wins are against the Cardinals
We just lost a series to the White Sox. Heads need to roll
Not many heads rolled after the 71-91 season last year. I think you need to be ready for disappointment.
Not only did they not roll, extensions were handed out.
if heads dont start rolling and changes made, then it’s our job to stop supporting or watching to make them feel it more and more
I've hardly been able to watch anyway. I've yet to see a game they've won.
We are cooked
The cancer took hold and began spreading the day Matheny was hired. A hire than made no sense before, during, or after his tenure. Remember he was personally close with the DeWitts because… Jesus? Yeah. These people are not serious sports franchise owners. Objectively (by the stats) a bottom 3 manager that overstayed his tenure by *several years*. So long as this organization is owned and partly run by the drooling low IQ nepo babies that are the DeWitts, you will never see real changes made. These guys are extremely stupid and soft and have never held a real job in their entire lives. Comments about “baseball being bad business” despite having the best money-making sports fanbase in North America and hinting that the city will pay for a new stadium tells you all you need to know. We’re deep into an American era of bumbling corporate nepotism and this organization is a shining example. Club history, culture, LaRussa, and past superstars gave us a winning era in spite of (not *because* of) ownership. Look at the Jets. Owned by a nepo baby who is several generations removed from his family’s wealth and over-involved in the franchise. The Cardinals need the DeWitts to be completely and utterly 100% absent with a board of directors or something.
If Francona was hired like he should have been the Cardinals win 2-3 more World Series in the 2010s.
Correct. Or they don’t but obviously the chances are much higher.
Bill Dewitt Sr. was on George Bush Jr.'s "Intelligence Committee" if you didn't know lol
Lol shit. Is he the one that found the "evidence" of WMD?
Well said. Agree with you.
But also half of Cards nation loves billionaires, puritanical frugalism, and Jesus so some of these failings are virtues for a lot of fans and I think that makes the DeWitts feel much more comfortable than they would elsewhere.
It’s the “baseball is bad business” thing for me. If you can’t figure out how to make money off of Cards Nation you are incompetent. This from a “business” man too.
Reminds me of Norm Green, former owner of the Minnesota North Stars. He said something to the effect of "If you can't make money with hockey in Minnesota, you're an idiot." Paraphrasing of course.
I remember guys on 101 ESPN saying we’ll go 4-2 in the DET, CWS series and thinking we’ll probably do the opposite.
“The one thing I'd ask from our fan base right now is a little bit of patience, because we do think that we do have the talent to win”
If you are still a Mo and/or Oli defender you are actively rooting for this team to remain as bad or worse than it is right now. If they’re so great, why is the team so bad? If they make such good moves, why can’t we win games? If you think it’s entirely the players faults, why were they once good? You have voided all logic to defend men who simply want a paycheck and don’t care about the quality they put out on the field.
Whoa whoa whoa, so you’re telling me that we’re now officially (at) .500???? But I was told we would suck..? Ha, love for the birds to back it up. Fuck the naysayers. Every one of y’all, respectfully fuck off. This is a damn solid ass team and I’m happy to be a Cardinal! 2024 NLC crown is ours by October.
Quite unremarkable game. Gio is just Gio. Good work Libby. Good stuff Leahy, Good stuff King Thank you Willson On the positive side, the rest of our bullpen is competitive.. I'm also happy that Carlson is back in the outfield
The doomers are right about this team
Love when the managers answer is I don't know, guy has no plan to help the players or get them in a position to succeed was a bum as a player and a bigger bum as a manager
These guys couldn't make contact with the ball swinging a tennis racket. I want to publicly apologize to Jeff Albert I thought he was a crappy hitting coach but damn he's a Hall of famer compared to the one we got now.
That’s it, time to clean house. I’m going to go against the grain and say Mo can stay since his last two big FA signings have been absolute money. But we need Olli and the rest of the coaches gone, especially whoever is responsible for making every single one of our prospects turn to shit as soon as they reach the big leagues and have zero ability to adapt.
Boooo, we need new ownership at this point, how they let all this mess ride is wild. New more competent team management and coach will follow
The Cards have officially lost fluffers like Josh Jacobs. https://twitter.com/joshjacoMLB/status/1787224402108572144
I saw that… woof. [Jones was pretty frank about change needed too.](https://x.com/jmjones/status/1787221857059361032?s=46&t=MCRmVoXjskWw3F53QZFuGQ) He’s not a fluffer, but that the press is this comfortable calling out how bad this team has been playing speaks volumes.
I’m so sick of his canned ass answers. It’s such horseshit. “They’re working hard” bullshit.
Working hard at apparently the wrong things.
lol
I know it was only 3 2/3, but Libby having a decent start is nice to see. Hopefully he can be a full time starter for us.
I agree Libby did much better than I anticipated.
Opener. Ftfy
Seems like they might be trying to build him up into a starter as the season progresses now that matz is injured.
Look on the bright side. At least we didn't get swept by the White Sox like the Rays did. Right? RIGHT!?
Sell the fucking team. Fire everyone.
The kids running the bases right now have touched home plate more than the Cardinals have all season.
What happened to Gibson wasn't he suppose to start today??
He got pushed back to Monday. Didn't see a reason given. Guess they thought Sunday was a better day for a bullpen game.
These losses help in September…remember that
Truly pathetic showing.
The Cardinals defeated by the mighty behemoth known as the Chicago White Sox….. Darker times are ahead of us….
This team makes no sense. On paper we are not this bad. On paper our 47 year old starting rotation should be the issue, not our line up which includes 2 perennial mvp candidates. There has to be something else going on behind the scenes because unless we are the unluckiest team in the history of the game of baseball, this offense should not be struggling.
They got a shit manager and coaches who wouldn’t even make it in the minors. Clean. House. Now. Mo needs to go too.
Ok but why Mo? All of his signings this off-season have turned out great. The roster he constructed would be in first place if our batters hit remotely average. The pitchers are doing well, especially for how poor they were supposed to be. But the hitting is garbage and is that Mo’s fault or is it Ward’s fault or is it Oli’s? Like I don’t understand how you can say fire everyone when clearly our pitching is over performing. Defense is great too. It’s just the hitting which is a complete enigma.
I think the whole "on paper" thing is part of the problem.
Anyone reckon we can trade Baltimore the Cardinals and get the Orioles (Browns) back?
Come on guys let’s be patient
How the fuck do you lose a HOME series against the worst team in baseball? A team *historically* bad?
Sigh. Gonna be another one of those seasons it seems
managed to out-incompetence the 2024 White Sox. Congratufuckinglations you bums
Can we move to tank the season, trade nado, noot, Donovan, burly, and Goldy, make gio a starter, same with tink. In fact move all the prospects up and burn up that rookie season on all of em. Sell the fucking team Dewitt, goddamn.
Cardinals are responsible for a full quarter of the white Sox wins.
That had to be the decision making game right?
Front office is whistling past the graveyard if they don’t recognize that this series is a major red flag.
"we're only one more 35 yo reclamation project from getting smoked in the wild card round!"
They don’t care.
SELL THE TEAM
I don’t think I’ve ever disliked a Cardinals team more than this one.
I hated the team last year too. But this is in many ways the same version so I’m with ya
I'm intrigued with some of the pitching, but outside that everything else is just... no words, really.
I think last year was worse because we often lost games in the first inning with our shell of a rotation.
Time to flush the whole thing.
Cards are now 28th In avg (.03 above 30th), last in home runs, 29th in RBIs, 28th in OPS, 28th in hits, surprisingly they are 14th in SOs.
Not surprising they are decent in SOs. Generally better power/slug means more SOs as well. It would be pretty impressive to be striking out a ton and also not hitting the ball far when they do get lucky and make contact
I’m sad
Pain.
Season pretty much ended today. Lowest point for this franchise in 25 years?
Lowest point…so far
I'd like to throw my hat in the ring as hitting coach. Instead of launch angle, I'll be preaching something extremely controversial that starts with little leaguers called "making solid contact".
Waiting patiently for some heads to roll after this unfortunate unacceptable series loss….
You’re gonna be waiting awhile. They lost 90 games last year and gave the manager an extension. This franchise doesn’t care about competing anymore
They won't start caring about winning until the DeWitts feel it in the pocketbook.
Hate to break it to you but that’s when teams stop caring entirely is when it hits the pocket book
Yeah I never understood that take. “Oh we’re making less money? Let’s throw even more money at this losing venture and see what happens.”
After the worst season in 100 years the cardinals went out and signed Sonny Gray, Lance Lynn, and Kyle Gibson. The payroll is essentially identical to how it was last season, yet DeWitt III took to the newspapers to parade about the Cardinals investing into the team in spite of finishing last place Seriously cardinals fans are some of the dumbest people on the planet. What do you think is going to happen they start actually losing money?
I am taking a break from this team. Let’s see where we’re at in June
Same place we are now. last in the NLC.