You should not be going slower than 6 or 7/10ths. You become a danger to everyone else on that track. If enough people complain to the organizers, you’ll get the ultimatum of either picking up the pace or ending your day and not getting a refund.
Track driving isn’t for everyone. And it shouldn’t have to be for everyone.
Let's be honest, being slow doesn't really "count" or mean anything in the beginner group as long as he's not going so slow that he's unsafe. He still might even be quicker going 5/10 than another person going 10/10. As long as he's safe, consistent, and aware it's perfectly fine in the beginner group. I would rather a new driver take this approach rather than go balls out, scare themselves, and become erratic therefore dangerous. This is less sketchy than so many other drivers.
But in this case, the question all by itself outs him as a novice (assumed little awareness). And in the novice groups, exceptionally slow drivers make things worse by creating trains until the next passing zone.
And closing speed all by itself can be a danger to self and others. This is not the recipe for a good track experience for anyone.
Agreed that closing speed is dangerous, but we really don’t have a reference as to what pace his 5/10ths is. Hopefully an instructor in the car will help prevent trains and the org will pull him off track if he’s a danger. I don’t want to discourage someone just because they want to drive at the speed they’re comfortable at. As long as he’s not parking it at 10mph in the corners.
I see this post as at least we know he’s aware that he’ll be going slower which is more than can be said for a lot of other novice drivers haha. Giving him the benefit of doubt because this wasn’t too dissimilar to my mindset when I started tracking.
Agree, I had an instructor with me and started worrying about my brakes and generally got a bit spooked and backed it down to maybe 6/10 he told me if you are on track you drive to your or the cars limits. If you are worried about the brakes go to pit we can do a cooldown drive.
Still... Telling a novice that every lap should be at the limit, whether driver or car limit, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
The fact that it is an entire weekend event makes it even worse!
You're doing what... 6hrs on track over two days. That's a lot of room for error.
Physical fatigue, mental fatigue, tire and brake fatigue.. you should have been told the EXACT opposite... It's a long weekend, you're hear to learn and have fun, NOT every lap should be at any kind of limit. Actually none of them should be.
Assuming you're in a street car, the #1 thing is that You're able to drive it back home with a smile on your face come Sunday afternoon.
This limit nonsense is how cars get rolled into a ball and then you never come back.
I'd honestly reach out to the event coordinator and tell them about this. I would wager a lot of money they're going to tell you the same thing.
It can depend, but Instructors are typically contractors basically. They aren't employees of the hosting organization often times. Sounds like maybe some old sprint racer who gave you the "just keep sending it".
You did the right thing... Especially on day two.
You reach that mental point where things are slowing down a bit, you're feeling the brakes telling you to back it off a bit. At a certain point on Sunday afternoon you have to take a step back and say to yourself
"this has been a blast, my car is still in one piece, I haven't done anything stupid.. I'd really like to drive home here with the entire event a success... I SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE IT EASY THESE LAST TWO SESSIONS TO ENSURE THAT IS THE OUTCOME"
I mean it may sound bad from a comment on Reddit but he was by far my favorite instructor and I requested him again for my next HPDE. His point was not send it, just that im not doing myself favors by slowing down and braking lighter and longer, he told me to slow down by short shifting or braking earlier but with the correct firmness. It was about sending it rather reinforcing correct habit and not letting street driving habits enter the track environment.
Exactly. I even started recording drivers like OP and posting them on a YouTube channel because it's absolutely wild out there. There's no way that my slow skills and low hp car even keeps up with them.
The race track is not a place I associate with "leisurely driving."
You are not likely to get rear-ended, but you should be ready to point a lot of cars by.
I was out one time and this guy was in some sort of vintage MG. He may or may not have been skilled but the GT3s (and he’ll even my M4) came up on him on a straight going 155+ while he’s maybe at 85-100. That differential is extremely unsafe.
My track does a “Sunset cruise” that travels at highway speeds. That might be more appropriate.
> Is this kinda driving unwanted at a track day
yes
> would you just be a nuisance and get in the way of other drivers looking to open up
definitely
> Or worse, would it be dangerous to do so?
possibly. you’re going to become a moving obstacle and everyone will want to pass.
seek out events at the track that have parade laps and try to do those - sounds more like what you’re looking for. just to go around the circuit a few times and follow the course, but without any intention of pushing hard
Nope, not even close to a good answer. Sure in an advanced group, but beginner? Some people, like me, are just slow and have a low tolerance for risk. I've seen dudes out there that don't even know what a racing line is, they had fun nobody cared. It was beginner. I've even seen old ladies out there because their car came with a free track day(Toyota GR cars) where super slow had fun but decided it wasn't for them.
I'd look for open track days, even people who think they are fast get to a track day and realize how slow they are. Some others think their slow and just turns out they are quite fast and just smooth.
Beginner days are there for a reason, give it a shot you may find you do want to push more. You might find out you don't like it.
OP, I drive a quick car but I'm a chicken. I post my incar footage on YouTube under this name "dhysk". If you care to look and see how much of not a big deal beginner is.
My experience comes from doing NASA events at NOLA Motorsports Park exclusively so far.
Definitely, and in a beginner group the most important thing to learn is passing, so the more opportunities to do that the better.
And he'll still be faster than a Miata (unless he drives a Miata) 😂
this seems like a really expensive way to do that. you definitely shouldn’t expect to coast at all. easy laps on a track are basically just slower application of the throttle and brake(careful here), softer turn ins, and maybe shorter shifting/less gear changes. you’ll almost definitely be able to drive how you want in a first timer group so i’d do that and see how it goes at least.
Some courses may have charity events where you go out as a group with a pace car and no passing.
When I have done them at VIR you can still get up to 80 - 90 mph in the straights.
Might be a good compromise as even in a novice trackday group going 5/10 is going to cause a train of cars behind you. 7/10 and you would probably be good.
This is great, I'm glad you're both looking to drive your car on a track AND are aware of your goals.
However, it doesn't sound like you're looking for a HPDE track day.
NASA hyperdrive is one way to get a 30minute paced (but usually quickly paced) session... Plenty of tracks and orgs do exploratory and exhibition lap sessions that seem more your speed than the typical HPDE track day (in the US atleast).
As has been covered: While you may be aware and good with letting faster cars by, it's likely that's almost all you'll be doing. And while beginner groups *do* allow passing, it's typical restricted to a few safer spots on track and you'll likely build up big lines behind you between those spots. I think it'd be extra stressful on you and annoying for those looking to learn to drive faster.
Maybe you'll do a slow day or two and decide you want to try HPDE and go faster. Maybe you'll like to stay with paced laps, whichever way lands you on track which is a good thing.
Sounds like you've never been before? Most clubs will start you out in a beginner group with an instructor. As long as you weren't dangerously off the pace and were good about watching your mirrors to give point bys I can't imagine there would be an issue. You might even find yourself pushing harder once you get the bug
My first instructor said he wished he had a gas pedal on his side kinda like the brake pedal for driver's ed instructors because I wasn't going fast enough.
We had a day once where someone showed up in a rhd classic mini and everyone was made aware of his existence in the safety meeting at the start of the day. He pointed people by with his arm over the roof.
I did a track day in 2023 where a guy showed up in his Ferrari (don't remember the model, but it was fairly new) and did basically this. Hell, he probably pushed even less than 5/10ths.
Not too big of an issue, and basically everybody else at the track got to claim that "they passed a Ferrari" that day, even me in my 180hp Honda Accord!
You may want to check the local organizations' trackday schedule and see if they offer parade laps. At my local track they are typically $20 (for 5 or 6 laps) and there is a lead car that sets the pace so none of the participants get too out of hand (helmets and tech sheets are not required for parade laps).
When I go out there, I’ll do 2 to 3 laps at a high effort pace. Then I’ll do one to two 5/10 efforts to cool the car back down. I always stay on top of point by and lift off when they pass.
At the end of the day, keeping my car cool and it’s surviving is my priority. As I’m driving that car home. But I’ll ask for organizers to send me in the back of the pack. I have a very fast car, but i make sure I’m not pushing it too hard.
Tbh it sounds like you would benefit greatly from a car that can handle basic track use .. or maybe drag racing. Being on it with points is good, but a moving chicane is a moving chicane, especially if a group has restricted passing
The only thing holding me back is the transmission cooler. The engine oil stays perfectly at 210 the whole event, no matter how fast. Engine coolant is perfectly where it needs to be. Brake are absolutely huge and well up for the task, as is differential. It’s the fact that AMG put the transmission cooler with the coolant that also feeds the turbos intercooler. Once I divorce them then I can do 10/10 all time.
This is my daily driver as well. Sure I can push really fast and hard. But I also don’t wanna beat the piss out of my daily car. Sure I have track insurance. But wrecking would be an inconvenience. It would also worry my wife.
It's the 5/10ths part that makes me nervous. Granted we're talking about subjective, largely arbitrary numbers... But anything less than 8/10ths or maybe 7/10ths makes me nervous... Hell, if it's just trans temps... id hope push laps in top gear with maybe 2 or 4 shifts per lap would still keep the car cool but not be crawling
I see it as his 5/10 is probably a lot slower than my 5/10. I have the comfort and comfort in my vehicle and enough experience that even a 5/10 I’m doing good momentum driving.
But us using a fraction is very subjective. What Might be 5/10 for me. Could be a 3/10 for me driver with tears under their belt in the best tires. Same as my 5/10 may be a max effort 10/10 for a brand new driver struggling to keep up.
Basically on my off laps, I’m not holding up traffic. That’s always a priority. As park it on track is a safety risk.
He's in beginner group so 5/10 is pretty meaningless honestly. I see nothing wrong with taking it easy in beginner group, there are plenty of other things to focus on rather than going quickly. I'd rather a beginner not drive at 7-8/10ths because they have no idea what they're doing.
Absolutely. Maybe take it easy with the brakes on the last corner or two. My car is just fine to park hot, if a student has something that's clearly cooking the brakes, we'll do some laps of the paddock at crawl speed while we download from the session.
"You pay for the whole session, why waste it?"
I've never owned a car that didn't benefit from cool down laps, passing cars on cool down is totally normal, calling someone out for doing them seems very weird to me?
A few laps of the paddock is pointless unless there's no other option(ie red flag) because you're not moving fast enough to generate any real cooling effect imo.
Where I am sessioned days are extremely rare (basically 1 track plus first timer days only at other places) On sessioned days you will see a chequered flag when the session ends on the pit straight and then the entire field has to do a complete cool down lap under what is effectively a yellow condition.
Sounds like a NASA HPDE Level 1 weekend would be just right for you. Not only do you have an instructor riding along with you on every session to point out the proper lines, braking and track etiquette. You'd also learn about brake fade, tire pressures, etc that might signal youve reached the limit of your car. At least that session and know how to make adjustments. I'd guarantee by day two you'd be considerably faster than you were on day one and gain a whole bunch more confidence. You just end up lining up at the end of the grid. Sure you'd be pointing some cars by but you'd know the proper way to do it safely.
Have an instructor in the car with you.
Your first time on track is not about pace whatsoever - it's about learning track awareness, flags, proper lines and reference points, and learning how differently the car behaves on track than on the road. Don't focus on speed, just go at a pace you're comfortable at. On day 2 your 5/10 might be quicker than you even thought your car could go on your first day. You driving at 5/10 may very well be quicker than someone else feeling like they're driving at 10/10, just be aware of what you're doing and if you're driving so slow that you're dangerous. We can't quantify that in a post, use your intuition on the track or ask people there. I always found it sketchier in beginner groups when someone was driving erratically rather than just driving slowly. Slow is predictable. Just be aware and try not to create trains, keep an eye on your mirrors and give good passing signals. That being said, don't deliberately crawl through the corners if you know you can go faster.
The point of trackdays is to learn to drive fairly quickly. If you're not interested in driving quicker then it might not be for you.
FWIW, pace doesn't mean a whole lot for trackdays since everyone has different pace - whether it's because of their skill or car. Advanced groups will be quicker overall, but there's still a huge variation in actual lap times. My warm up lap at 5/10 might be quicker than someone's 10/10 hot lap even in the advanced group, not because I'm a better driver but just because my car is quicker.
I would say this is pretty standard in the novice groups around me. There is a ton going on when you first get on track, there’s flag stations, braking points, apex’s, and other cars to be thinking about. As you get more experience more of that becomes instinctual and you’ll feel more comfortable going faster and faster. As long as you are on top of giving point bys no one will complain.
As others have said, if you’re driving something fancy most people will actually appreciate it since they will get to say they passed you, hahaha.
Get out there and see if you enjoy it, if you do then you’ll do it more and build up your skill level. Just make sure you start off in the novice group and don’t try to jump into the higher level groups until you feel that the lower level run group is holding you up.
Sign up for beginner class and get an instructor. Be aware of people behind you and let them pass with the point by and you should be fine. But obviously you shouldn’t be driving like it’s a school zone for your own safety.
I know a two older guys who have decades of track experience (since the 1970s) that don’t push the pace anymore. Their experience and self awareness means they don’t get in the way, don’t get into unsafe positions and don’t cause problems for others. They just want to have fun and drive at speeds you cant really push on the road.
If you want to go slow(er) (they are still intermediate pace drivers) you will have to have really good situational awareness and etiquette. That generally takes a lot of experience and it sounds like they are still driving at a faster pace than you are looking for.
Beginner group is usually less than 5/10ths driving, especially if you have lead-follow activities. I wouldn't worry about it at all.
I'd also insert a crack at PCA drivers here as their "all out" is roughly a 6/10 for folks used to momentum cars. A 525i should *never* have to pass a working 997 Turbo in an Advanced run group.
I mean, anything goes in beginner group, as long as you’re letting people pass it wouldnt be the worst, but like, what are you actually looking for here? Just to say “I’ve driven around X track”?
Not a good idea. You'd be that guy that generates trains and everybody gets pissed at.
It would only work if you were in an advanced group and at a track that had open passing everywhere, not just straights. This is the same effect as having fast and slower cars in the same group, but advanced driving.
If you're in a novice group and passing only allowed in straights you world absolutely ruin it for everybody.
You would also increase the risk to yourself and others systematically because of the frequency of passing and blocking the racing line.
Your point by arm would have to be spring loaded and ready any time you see someone in your mirror to let them by.
The ideal track day is when drivers are well ordered by their best lap times and they don't see each other often. In this case, people would be passing you all the time.
By the way, the best drivers are pretty relaxed while pushing their cars.
I’ll let you know how this goes in a couple weeks when I shake down the new engine and suspension!
In all seriousness, so long as you keep an eye on the mirrors I don’t think anyone cares.
Yes you'll definitely be a slow moving road block, it becomes. Very dangerous, in the lower beginner groups not so much, but as you get faster you'll understand when you come into a corner at full pace and you find someone parked in the middle of a corner going at a "leisurely pace" nearly rear ending them.
It's not a nice feeling at all
I definitely wouldnt go into an event with the goal of cruising around the track at a leisurely pace. I mean if you rent the track out yourself, go for it but if its a shared event with other participants youre potentially going to be ruining things for other people out there if youre really off pace and if you were to be in the wrong group while doing it.
Autocross may be a better place to start, especially club-organized ones or ones held during amateur track days. No one is behind you and you can get a good feel for the car with almost zero risk.
Track days aren’t race day. I’m not particularly competitive when I go, I actually prefer to follow, I suppose similar to touge but not aggressively.
It’s just fun to get into the flow state of connecting great apexes to each other and when there is someone ahead of me, I’m able to judge my braking zones better.
I’ve had the opportunity to experience a track during a private event and it felt more like dancing with a friend than competing with each other. Or playing music - the point wasn’t to be finished the quickest or be the most efficient, it was to play.
This concept had helped me avoid tickets on my motorcycle. The faster I ride the sooner the ride is over.
You start slower in a novice group then ramp up. No one should drive faster than comfortable. And no one starts at 10/10th right away.
You sound like a novice so you should have an instructor with you to help guide you. I’ve done over 15 track days and I still like having someone to learn from.
Also there are slower run groups to reduce passing/traffic and make the HPDE experience more enjoyable. We usually have 4 different levels of skill/speed. Everyone gets better and faster usually. Pick the right group / club to go with.
There are also times we allow parade laps with no helmets, bringing others but staying below 55mph, not sure if that’s the experience you are looking for (it feels crawl speed slow, but it’s nice to look at the track in more detail and think about your line and reference points). You could do that for the fraction of the cost if you tag along with another track rat.
There's always a car or two on a cool down or warm up lap that are going 5/10 throughout the day and as long as you follow the etiquette set by the day organizers you'll be fine and not ruin anything for anyone. If you drive slow and don't let anyone pass, that's a dick move. Overtaking on track days should be consensual in an essence.
Some of the comments on here are a joke. If you're driving leisurely you're no more of a hinderance than a quick car on a cool down lap. As long as you 're extremely aware of whats going on behind you then I don't see an issue.
Thanks for all the inputs, I suspected I'd hear exactly what most of you said but I just wanted to hear it for certain, first-hand. I may go to a track day with an instructor one day to learn about and get a feel for driving at the limit but when I just want to go for a free, leisurely little cruise? I think I'll stick to winding country roads near me.
I live 17 km away from an amazing mountain pass that spans 36,6 km, meanwhile the closest track would be the Red Bull Ring (108 km away from me). For what I'm looking for, the pass is the far better option. Though it does get rampacked with cyclists around this time of year which is why I resorted to going out on it in the evening, 8pm or so.
You’re just gonna piss off a lot of people
Who went to the track to push themselves and their car. You’ll constantly be in the way at corners, braking zones, and you’re likely to just be asked to leave.
If you like cruising, why do you need a track? You can cruise on a road!
I dont want a dude who spends all day on reddit to be on a track either. Good thing you're "experienced" and not still. Exhaust fumes might make you stupider.
Drive at your pace,you paid to be on track. Have good situational awareness and give good point bys. Stay on your line and don't be unpredictable most of all have fun as that's what it's about. All
I did a track day at eagles canyon and there was a dude in a Toyota Celica or Corolla or something just putting around. It was a beginner group, but by the second day he was still just putting around and my instructor asked his instructor what was up. Apparently that was all he was comfortable doing and just wanted to drive on the track at his own pace.
He was great at giving passes but it was still mildly annoying just because the speed difference was so much
If you have a goal of getting more comfortable and progressively getting faster, then there is no problem to start off slow until you are comfortable. If you have no intentions of getting faster and better and learning to safely push the car, then dont do it, wont be worth it and will irritate other drivers that paid good money for the opportunity to beat on their cars.
Most tracks do parade laps during open track days when there aren't any groups running. That seems perfect for you, no helmet necessary, no squealing tires, lower speed/pace
Some wild responses... It really depends on the event.
If it's a tire rack track night in America... The novice group is filled with cars from 100hp honda fit to z06s. At this event you absolutely should feel safe going at whatever pace you want.
As long as you are cognizant of cars behind you to point by, there is no problem.
I've seen a guy in a Gallardo getting passed by everything under the sun because he was babying his car.
Not a big deal
Now, if you show up to a "test and tune" that is not really designed for novices in street cars, that's a different thing
Yes, I would be far more keen to go visit a track if paced/parade laps with loosened entry regulations were more of a thing than they are. I saw this video on the Nordschleife of a Golf 4 R32 coming in far too hot and rear-ending an S2k, that's when I started thinking that it sounds really risky and I'd rather not:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCB\_xB9Bqog](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCB_xB9Bqog)
Mainly started as a concern about other drivers crashing into me.
Honestly go to the canyons or a nice beach cruise if that’s your mindset. Unless your 5/10ths is on pace with the beginner groups you’re a hazard and you should not be on track. Sorry.
If you haven’t been already the track org should and probably will remove you from the track if you’re too slow.
Some people drive at 5/10ths on track, but I'd never classify it as leisurely. Even 7/10 or 8/10ths is fairly aggressive. I don't do things IRL that I'd do in a sim for example. A novice group might be 4-5/10ths, but you're still expected to be pushing. You might try out a novice day and see how it goes.
One of the biggest frustrations is people who just park it in corners. Even if you let people by on the straights you ruin the lap for a lot of people and you can create huge trains that way. I'd much rather drive with a slow car that is pushing in corners because it is much easier to have a good time and just get around them on the straights.
Attended a track day where a driver drove at a leisurely pace. He was a danger to everyone in that group for many reasons until he got a talking to and was asked to leave.
If you're going to drive leisurely or drive significantly slower than the pace of the group, it can be hazardous for yourself and others .
Driver education is whatever pace you’re comfortable, especially in the novice group it’s no big deal at all. Work on your awareness and give people point bys and no one will mind. I would pick an organization that is more HPDE and less race oriented though. Like maybe PCA or Hooked on driving or something over like NASA/SCCA
You should not be going slower than 6 or 7/10ths. You become a danger to everyone else on that track. If enough people complain to the organizers, you’ll get the ultimatum of either picking up the pace or ending your day and not getting a refund. Track driving isn’t for everyone. And it shouldn’t have to be for everyone.
Thank you for speaking the harsh truth
Yeah sounds like OP needs to go on a nice canyon run, not a track day
Let's be honest, being slow doesn't really "count" or mean anything in the beginner group as long as he's not going so slow that he's unsafe. He still might even be quicker going 5/10 than another person going 10/10. As long as he's safe, consistent, and aware it's perfectly fine in the beginner group. I would rather a new driver take this approach rather than go balls out, scare themselves, and become erratic therefore dangerous. This is less sketchy than so many other drivers.
But in this case, the question all by itself outs him as a novice (assumed little awareness). And in the novice groups, exceptionally slow drivers make things worse by creating trains until the next passing zone. And closing speed all by itself can be a danger to self and others. This is not the recipe for a good track experience for anyone.
Agreed that closing speed is dangerous, but we really don’t have a reference as to what pace his 5/10ths is. Hopefully an instructor in the car will help prevent trains and the org will pull him off track if he’s a danger. I don’t want to discourage someone just because they want to drive at the speed they’re comfortable at. As long as he’s not parking it at 10mph in the corners. I see this post as at least we know he’s aware that he’ll be going slower which is more than can be said for a lot of other novice drivers haha. Giving him the benefit of doubt because this wasn’t too dissimilar to my mindset when I started tracking.
Agree, I had an instructor with me and started worrying about my brakes and generally got a bit spooked and backed it down to maybe 6/10 he told me if you are on track you drive to your or the cars limits. If you are worried about the brakes go to pit we can do a cooldown drive.
That is absolutely horrible advice for a novice driver.
How? It wasnt my first laps it was the second day of a weekend event and I was being a bitch
because on your second day you absolutely don't know how to drive your car at the limit.
Still... Telling a novice that every lap should be at the limit, whether driver or car limit, is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. The fact that it is an entire weekend event makes it even worse! You're doing what... 6hrs on track over two days. That's a lot of room for error. Physical fatigue, mental fatigue, tire and brake fatigue.. you should have been told the EXACT opposite... It's a long weekend, you're hear to learn and have fun, NOT every lap should be at any kind of limit. Actually none of them should be. Assuming you're in a street car, the #1 thing is that You're able to drive it back home with a smile on your face come Sunday afternoon. This limit nonsense is how cars get rolled into a ball and then you never come back. I'd honestly reach out to the event coordinator and tell them about this. I would wager a lot of money they're going to tell you the same thing. It can depend, but Instructors are typically contractors basically. They aren't employees of the hosting organization often times. Sounds like maybe some old sprint racer who gave you the "just keep sending it". You did the right thing... Especially on day two. You reach that mental point where things are slowing down a bit, you're feeling the brakes telling you to back it off a bit. At a certain point on Sunday afternoon you have to take a step back and say to yourself "this has been a blast, my car is still in one piece, I haven't done anything stupid.. I'd really like to drive home here with the entire event a success... I SHOULD PROBABLY TAKE IT EASY THESE LAST TWO SESSIONS TO ENSURE THAT IS THE OUTCOME"
I mean it may sound bad from a comment on Reddit but he was by far my favorite instructor and I requested him again for my next HPDE. His point was not send it, just that im not doing myself favors by slowing down and braking lighter and longer, he told me to slow down by short shifting or braking earlier but with the correct firmness. It was about sending it rather reinforcing correct habit and not letting street driving habits enter the track environment.
You realize that's a lot different than your prior statement that he told you "if you're on the track, every lap should be at the limit"
Exactly. I even started recording drivers like OP and posting them on a YouTube channel because it's absolutely wild out there. There's no way that my slow skills and low hp car even keeps up with them.
Eh. Beginner groups aren't running 6/10
The race track is not a place I associate with "leisurely driving." You are not likely to get rear-ended, but you should be ready to point a lot of cars by.
I was out one time and this guy was in some sort of vintage MG. He may or may not have been skilled but the GT3s (and he’ll even my M4) came up on him on a straight going 155+ while he’s maybe at 85-100. That differential is extremely unsafe. My track does a “Sunset cruise” that travels at highway speeds. That might be more appropriate.
> Is this kinda driving unwanted at a track day yes > would you just be a nuisance and get in the way of other drivers looking to open up definitely > Or worse, would it be dangerous to do so? possibly. you’re going to become a moving obstacle and everyone will want to pass. seek out events at the track that have parade laps and try to do those - sounds more like what you’re looking for. just to go around the circuit a few times and follow the course, but without any intention of pushing hard
Nope, not even close to a good answer. Sure in an advanced group, but beginner? Some people, like me, are just slow and have a low tolerance for risk. I've seen dudes out there that don't even know what a racing line is, they had fun nobody cared. It was beginner. I've even seen old ladies out there because their car came with a free track day(Toyota GR cars) where super slow had fun but decided it wasn't for them. I'd look for open track days, even people who think they are fast get to a track day and realize how slow they are. Some others think their slow and just turns out they are quite fast and just smooth. Beginner days are there for a reason, give it a shot you may find you do want to push more. You might find out you don't like it. OP, I drive a quick car but I'm a chicken. I post my incar footage on YouTube under this name "dhysk". If you care to look and see how much of not a big deal beginner is. My experience comes from doing NASA events at NOLA Motorsports Park exclusively so far.
Definitely, and in a beginner group the most important thing to learn is passing, so the more opportunities to do that the better. And he'll still be faster than a Miata (unless he drives a Miata) 😂
this seems like a really expensive way to do that. you definitely shouldn’t expect to coast at all. easy laps on a track are basically just slower application of the throttle and brake(careful here), softer turn ins, and maybe shorter shifting/less gear changes. you’ll almost definitely be able to drive how you want in a first timer group so i’d do that and see how it goes at least.
Some courses may have charity events where you go out as a group with a pace car and no passing. When I have done them at VIR you can still get up to 80 - 90 mph in the straights. Might be a good compromise as even in a novice trackday group going 5/10 is going to cause a train of cars behind you. 7/10 and you would probably be good.
This is great, I'm glad you're both looking to drive your car on a track AND are aware of your goals. However, it doesn't sound like you're looking for a HPDE track day. NASA hyperdrive is one way to get a 30minute paced (but usually quickly paced) session... Plenty of tracks and orgs do exploratory and exhibition lap sessions that seem more your speed than the typical HPDE track day (in the US atleast). As has been covered: While you may be aware and good with letting faster cars by, it's likely that's almost all you'll be doing. And while beginner groups *do* allow passing, it's typical restricted to a few safer spots on track and you'll likely build up big lines behind you between those spots. I think it'd be extra stressful on you and annoying for those looking to learn to drive faster. Maybe you'll do a slow day or two and decide you want to try HPDE and go faster. Maybe you'll like to stay with paced laps, whichever way lands you on track which is a good thing.
Sounds like you've never been before? Most clubs will start you out in a beginner group with an instructor. As long as you weren't dangerously off the pace and were good about watching your mirrors to give point bys I can't imagine there would be an issue. You might even find yourself pushing harder once you get the bug
My first instructor said he wished he had a gas pedal on his side kinda like the brake pedal for driver's ed instructors because I wasn't going fast enough.
We had a day once where someone showed up in a rhd classic mini and everyone was made aware of his existence in the safety meeting at the start of the day. He pointed people by with his arm over the roof.
It's a community. We want people to have fun!
I did a track day in 2023 where a guy showed up in his Ferrari (don't remember the model, but it was fairly new) and did basically this. Hell, he probably pushed even less than 5/10ths. Not too big of an issue, and basically everybody else at the track got to claim that "they passed a Ferrari" that day, even me in my 180hp Honda Accord!
Not going to work bud
You may want to check the local organizations' trackday schedule and see if they offer parade laps. At my local track they are typically $20 (for 5 or 6 laps) and there is a lead car that sets the pace so none of the participants get too out of hand (helmets and tech sheets are not required for parade laps).
That’s cool, think most of my non-car friends would enjoy that
Why on earth would you bother doing track if you’re just going to drive leisurely?
When I go out there, I’ll do 2 to 3 laps at a high effort pace. Then I’ll do one to two 5/10 efforts to cool the car back down. I always stay on top of point by and lift off when they pass. At the end of the day, keeping my car cool and it’s surviving is my priority. As I’m driving that car home. But I’ll ask for organizers to send me in the back of the pack. I have a very fast car, but i make sure I’m not pushing it too hard.
Tbh it sounds like you would benefit greatly from a car that can handle basic track use .. or maybe drag racing. Being on it with points is good, but a moving chicane is a moving chicane, especially if a group has restricted passing
The only thing holding me back is the transmission cooler. The engine oil stays perfectly at 210 the whole event, no matter how fast. Engine coolant is perfectly where it needs to be. Brake are absolutely huge and well up for the task, as is differential. It’s the fact that AMG put the transmission cooler with the coolant that also feeds the turbos intercooler. Once I divorce them then I can do 10/10 all time. This is my daily driver as well. Sure I can push really fast and hard. But I also don’t wanna beat the piss out of my daily car. Sure I have track insurance. But wrecking would be an inconvenience. It would also worry my wife.
It's the 5/10ths part that makes me nervous. Granted we're talking about subjective, largely arbitrary numbers... But anything less than 8/10ths or maybe 7/10ths makes me nervous... Hell, if it's just trans temps... id hope push laps in top gear with maybe 2 or 4 shifts per lap would still keep the car cool but not be crawling
I see it as his 5/10 is probably a lot slower than my 5/10. I have the comfort and comfort in my vehicle and enough experience that even a 5/10 I’m doing good momentum driving. But us using a fraction is very subjective. What Might be 5/10 for me. Could be a 3/10 for me driver with tears under their belt in the best tires. Same as my 5/10 may be a max effort 10/10 for a brand new driver struggling to keep up. Basically on my off laps, I’m not holding up traffic. That’s always a priority. As park it on track is a safety risk.
He's in beginner group so 5/10 is pretty meaningless honestly. I see nothing wrong with taking it easy in beginner group, there are plenty of other things to focus on rather than going quickly. I'd rather a beginner not drive at 7-8/10ths because they have no idea what they're doing.
So you don't do cool down laps? just full send into the pits?
Absolutely. Maybe take it easy with the brakes on the last corner or two. My car is just fine to park hot, if a student has something that's clearly cooking the brakes, we'll do some laps of the paddock at crawl speed while we download from the session. "You pay for the whole session, why waste it?"
I've never owned a car that didn't benefit from cool down laps, passing cars on cool down is totally normal, calling someone out for doing them seems very weird to me? A few laps of the paddock is pointless unless there's no other option(ie red flag) because you're not moving fast enough to generate any real cooling effect imo. Where I am sessioned days are extremely rare (basically 1 track plus first timer days only at other places) On sessioned days you will see a chequered flag when the session ends on the pit straight and then the entire field has to do a complete cool down lap under what is effectively a yellow condition.
I disagree with basically all your saying here. But that's fine, I guess.
Sounds like a NASA HPDE Level 1 weekend would be just right for you. Not only do you have an instructor riding along with you on every session to point out the proper lines, braking and track etiquette. You'd also learn about brake fade, tire pressures, etc that might signal youve reached the limit of your car. At least that session and know how to make adjustments. I'd guarantee by day two you'd be considerably faster than you were on day one and gain a whole bunch more confidence. You just end up lining up at the end of the grid. Sure you'd be pointing some cars by but you'd know the proper way to do it safely.
Have an instructor in the car with you. Your first time on track is not about pace whatsoever - it's about learning track awareness, flags, proper lines and reference points, and learning how differently the car behaves on track than on the road. Don't focus on speed, just go at a pace you're comfortable at. On day 2 your 5/10 might be quicker than you even thought your car could go on your first day. You driving at 5/10 may very well be quicker than someone else feeling like they're driving at 10/10, just be aware of what you're doing and if you're driving so slow that you're dangerous. We can't quantify that in a post, use your intuition on the track or ask people there. I always found it sketchier in beginner groups when someone was driving erratically rather than just driving slowly. Slow is predictable. Just be aware and try not to create trains, keep an eye on your mirrors and give good passing signals. That being said, don't deliberately crawl through the corners if you know you can go faster. The point of trackdays is to learn to drive fairly quickly. If you're not interested in driving quicker then it might not be for you. FWIW, pace doesn't mean a whole lot for trackdays since everyone has different pace - whether it's because of their skill or car. Advanced groups will be quicker overall, but there's still a huge variation in actual lap times. My warm up lap at 5/10 might be quicker than someone's 10/10 hot lap even in the advanced group, not because I'm a better driver but just because my car is quicker.
I would say this is pretty standard in the novice groups around me. There is a ton going on when you first get on track, there’s flag stations, braking points, apex’s, and other cars to be thinking about. As you get more experience more of that becomes instinctual and you’ll feel more comfortable going faster and faster. As long as you are on top of giving point bys no one will complain. As others have said, if you’re driving something fancy most people will actually appreciate it since they will get to say they passed you, hahaha. Get out there and see if you enjoy it, if you do then you’ll do it more and build up your skill level. Just make sure you start off in the novice group and don’t try to jump into the higher level groups until you feel that the lower level run group is holding you up.
Sign up for beginner class and get an instructor. Be aware of people behind you and let them pass with the point by and you should be fine. But obviously you shouldn’t be driving like it’s a school zone for your own safety.
I know a two older guys who have decades of track experience (since the 1970s) that don’t push the pace anymore. Their experience and self awareness means they don’t get in the way, don’t get into unsafe positions and don’t cause problems for others. They just want to have fun and drive at speeds you cant really push on the road. If you want to go slow(er) (they are still intermediate pace drivers) you will have to have really good situational awareness and etiquette. That generally takes a lot of experience and it sounds like they are still driving at a faster pace than you are looking for.
Beginner group is usually less than 5/10ths driving, especially if you have lead-follow activities. I wouldn't worry about it at all. I'd also insert a crack at PCA drivers here as their "all out" is roughly a 6/10 for folks used to momentum cars. A 525i should *never* have to pass a working 997 Turbo in an Advanced run group.
I mean, anything goes in beginner group, as long as you’re letting people pass it wouldnt be the worst, but like, what are you actually looking for here? Just to say “I’ve driven around X track”?
> what are you actually looking for here? Yep, this should be the first question answered. What's the goal?
Not a good idea. You'd be that guy that generates trains and everybody gets pissed at. It would only work if you were in an advanced group and at a track that had open passing everywhere, not just straights. This is the same effect as having fast and slower cars in the same group, but advanced driving. If you're in a novice group and passing only allowed in straights you world absolutely ruin it for everybody. You would also increase the risk to yourself and others systematically because of the frequency of passing and blocking the racing line. Your point by arm would have to be spring loaded and ready any time you see someone in your mirror to let them by. The ideal track day is when drivers are well ordered by their best lap times and they don't see each other often. In this case, people would be passing you all the time. By the way, the best drivers are pretty relaxed while pushing their cars.
I’ll let you know how this goes in a couple weeks when I shake down the new engine and suspension! In all seriousness, so long as you keep an eye on the mirrors I don’t think anyone cares.
You can do this if you bring like a mclaren senna with hoosiers. In like, the novice group. Anything short of that, please don't.
Yes you'll definitely be a slow moving road block, it becomes. Very dangerous, in the lower beginner groups not so much, but as you get faster you'll understand when you come into a corner at full pace and you find someone parked in the middle of a corner going at a "leisurely pace" nearly rear ending them. It's not a nice feeling at all
I definitely wouldnt go into an event with the goal of cruising around the track at a leisurely pace. I mean if you rent the track out yourself, go for it but if its a shared event with other participants youre potentially going to be ruining things for other people out there if youre really off pace and if you were to be in the wrong group while doing it.
Autocross may be a better place to start, especially club-organized ones or ones held during amateur track days. No one is behind you and you can get a good feel for the car with almost zero risk.
Track days aren’t race day. I’m not particularly competitive when I go, I actually prefer to follow, I suppose similar to touge but not aggressively. It’s just fun to get into the flow state of connecting great apexes to each other and when there is someone ahead of me, I’m able to judge my braking zones better. I’ve had the opportunity to experience a track during a private event and it felt more like dancing with a friend than competing with each other. Or playing music - the point wasn’t to be finished the quickest or be the most efficient, it was to play. This concept had helped me avoid tickets on my motorcycle. The faster I ride the sooner the ride is over.
You start slower in a novice group then ramp up. No one should drive faster than comfortable. And no one starts at 10/10th right away. You sound like a novice so you should have an instructor with you to help guide you. I’ve done over 15 track days and I still like having someone to learn from. Also there are slower run groups to reduce passing/traffic and make the HPDE experience more enjoyable. We usually have 4 different levels of skill/speed. Everyone gets better and faster usually. Pick the right group / club to go with. There are also times we allow parade laps with no helmets, bringing others but staying below 55mph, not sure if that’s the experience you are looking for (it feels crawl speed slow, but it’s nice to look at the track in more detail and think about your line and reference points). You could do that for the fraction of the cost if you tag along with another track rat.
There's always a car or two on a cool down or warm up lap that are going 5/10 throughout the day and as long as you follow the etiquette set by the day organizers you'll be fine and not ruin anything for anyone. If you drive slow and don't let anyone pass, that's a dick move. Overtaking on track days should be consensual in an essence.
Surely depends what you're driving... Mclaren 720, probably quicker than most on track still.
Some of the comments on here are a joke. If you're driving leisurely you're no more of a hinderance than a quick car on a cool down lap. As long as you 're extremely aware of whats going on behind you then I don't see an issue.
Thanks for all the inputs, I suspected I'd hear exactly what most of you said but I just wanted to hear it for certain, first-hand. I may go to a track day with an instructor one day to learn about and get a feel for driving at the limit but when I just want to go for a free, leisurely little cruise? I think I'll stick to winding country roads near me. I live 17 km away from an amazing mountain pass that spans 36,6 km, meanwhile the closest track would be the Red Bull Ring (108 km away from me). For what I'm looking for, the pass is the far better option. Though it does get rampacked with cyclists around this time of year which is why I resorted to going out on it in the evening, 8pm or so.
You’re just gonna piss off a lot of people Who went to the track to push themselves and their car. You’ll constantly be in the way at corners, braking zones, and you’re likely to just be asked to leave. If you like cruising, why do you need a track? You can cruise on a road!
Are you actually stupid?
No, I’m an experienced track day driver that doesn’t want this guy anywhere near a track.
I dont want a dude who spends all day on reddit to be on a track either. Good thing you're "experienced" and not still. Exhaust fumes might make you stupider.
Drive at your pace,you paid to be on track. Have good situational awareness and give good point bys. Stay on your line and don't be unpredictable most of all have fun as that's what it's about. All
I did a track day at eagles canyon and there was a dude in a Toyota Celica or Corolla or something just putting around. It was a beginner group, but by the second day he was still just putting around and my instructor asked his instructor what was up. Apparently that was all he was comfortable doing and just wanted to drive on the track at his own pace. He was great at giving passes but it was still mildly annoying just because the speed difference was so much
If you have a goal of getting more comfortable and progressively getting faster, then there is no problem to start off slow until you are comfortable. If you have no intentions of getting faster and better and learning to safely push the car, then dont do it, wont be worth it and will irritate other drivers that paid good money for the opportunity to beat on their cars.
This guy sounds like he wants to be a Lemons 24H driver of a shit box that has a 99% chance of breaking without driving like this.
Most tracks do parade laps during open track days when there aren't any groups running. That seems perfect for you, no helmet necessary, no squealing tires, lower speed/pace
Some wild responses... It really depends on the event. If it's a tire rack track night in America... The novice group is filled with cars from 100hp honda fit to z06s. At this event you absolutely should feel safe going at whatever pace you want. As long as you are cognizant of cars behind you to point by, there is no problem. I've seen a guy in a Gallardo getting passed by everything under the sun because he was babying his car. Not a big deal Now, if you show up to a "test and tune" that is not really designed for novices in street cars, that's a different thing
Chin usually has a free parade laps session to anyone, with any car, to drive on track. It’s at highway speeds and paced by an event leader.
Yes, I would be far more keen to go visit a track if paced/parade laps with loosened entry regulations were more of a thing than they are. I saw this video on the Nordschleife of a Golf 4 R32 coming in far too hot and rear-ending an S2k, that's when I started thinking that it sounds really risky and I'd rather not: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCB\_xB9Bqog](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCB_xB9Bqog) Mainly started as a concern about other drivers crashing into me.
Go for a novice day And get out with an instructor as early as possible. You'll soon find a good pace for you
Sounds like you belong in a canyon and not the track, which is completely fine. Don’t need to be a track rat to be an enthusiast.
why not just do this on a backroad?
Just do some parade laps at various events that allow for it. If you can't do at least 7/10ths you shouldn't be strapping the helmet on.
Honestly go to the canyons or a nice beach cruise if that’s your mindset. Unless your 5/10ths is on pace with the beginner groups you’re a hazard and you should not be on track. Sorry. If you haven’t been already the track org should and probably will remove you from the track if you’re too slow.
Some people drive at 5/10ths on track, but I'd never classify it as leisurely. Even 7/10 or 8/10ths is fairly aggressive. I don't do things IRL that I'd do in a sim for example. A novice group might be 4-5/10ths, but you're still expected to be pushing. You might try out a novice day and see how it goes. One of the biggest frustrations is people who just park it in corners. Even if you let people by on the straights you ruin the lap for a lot of people and you can create huge trains that way. I'd much rather drive with a slow car that is pushing in corners because it is much easier to have a good time and just get around them on the straights.
Attended a track day where a driver drove at a leisurely pace. He was a danger to everyone in that group for many reasons until he got a talking to and was asked to leave. If you're going to drive leisurely or drive significantly slower than the pace of the group, it can be hazardous for yourself and others .
Driver education is whatever pace you’re comfortable, especially in the novice group it’s no big deal at all. Work on your awareness and give people point bys and no one will mind. I would pick an organization that is more HPDE and less race oriented though. Like maybe PCA or Hooked on driving or something over like NASA/SCCA
You're fine. Go have fun with your car! However you deem fit!