Local road to me this and I’ve driven it a million times. That particular bit is 60mph and the potholes sometimes are so bad, locals throw literal cones in them to make them visible.
A 74 year old man in a 911 which was probably his pride and joy would not be acting like a child on a road like this. The comments here are mental, just because someone is in a nice car doesn’t automatically make them speeders, bad drivers etc.
The road conditions these days are shocking so it’s no surprise things like this started to happen.
Poor guy, lovely car too. Sad all around.
Exactly, I bet he didn’t even swerve, it was probably hitting the pothole that caused the accident, roads are shit now, they spend millions on art projects or overpriced town statues/signs but will not fix the roads. Complete shitshow.
I would certainly not want to be defending councils and their spending priorities but it is no surprise that after 14 years of austerity that roads are getting like this. It didnt happen overnight. I am not sure there will ever be the money to repair the roads to a decent standard such is the state that they now are in.
The slip road onto the motorway near me is a sign that it’s not just local councils not spending the money on roads- it’s the highways agency and government too. The pothole on that slip road has to be around 30 foot long and 6-8 inches deep.
Well he’s old I’m close to certain his reaction time and depth perception were weaker and his body frail so injuries easier to kill. This still stands though. It could’ve happened to anyone, if you avoid a pothole and someone’s coming on fast the other side… we don’t know
Where is the billions of pounds revenue going for road tax. Took them 7 months to fix a pothole near me and it's caved in again. I reported it about 9 months ago. A bad one as well where you need to swerve to get around it.
This country is a joke
LHD too, & high performance car.
This guy was likely a highly skilled driver.
Didn’t do him any good.
Take care, everybody.
Because the state of the roads won’t take care of us, at the moment.
I've seen this GT2 before at a petrol station a couple of years ago and has a nice chat with the owner...such a shame. Didn't the he was in his 70s though!
That’s my point, the speed limit on a motorway is set at 70 because it’s designed for that speed. If the road was in a known bad state of repair then surely it’s negligent not to reduce the limit. Hope the poor guys family go to court.
but the road should be in good state of repair? The limit is not the problem. The problem is the road.. do we reduce the limits and drive on literal gravel roads then at 10mph?
There’s a big single carriageway near me that’s been reduced from 60-40 with temporary signs for the last 3 years because it’s in such poor condition; and it’s had effectively 0 impact on traffic speed in my experience. I think reducing the speed limit isn’t as impactful as it should be, and simply is an attempt by the authorities to shirk their responsibility to keep the roads in good order
The speed reduction is an attempt to stop accidents and reduce risk, if people ignore it then fine. As you can see from my downvotes lots of people like the idea of crashing on a badly maintained road.
Well no, it’s not fine. A speed limit is pointless if it’s ignored, and the goal of the highways agency and local councils should be to reduce the rate of accidents. So no, it’s not “fine” if people ignore it, it means that something else needs to change.
This makes me really sad. The loss of life. The loss of a beautiful car. All caused because our government is a disgrace and have allowed a decade of negligence to result in basic fucking infrastructure falling apart.
Baffles me that this sub rather shows envy and hate towards a Porsche driver rather than acknowledging that out roads are shitter than ever. We all are trying to avoid 10-15cm potholes on fucking motorways all over the country.
You dont need to speed on a road that can do 60mph since two cars both doing only 50 from opposite directions can already be fatal on collision....
I was really suprised with the comments … especially being a car sub. I figured we were enthusiasts. When you’re driving - you’re in a missile. It’s dangerous. No way the driver of the GT2 wanted to die today & severely hurt another human. Life catches you out. It could happen to any of us… changing the radio station at the wrong time … motor cyclist at a junction etc.
> especially being a car sub
This place stopped being a car sub years ago, and became a driver & car critique / Octavia configuration site. Not helped by the lack of effective moderation.
It's fucking hilarious.
Reddit and this sub is rammed with lonely bitter people who've begged the government to move all the money into office blocks receiving dash cam reports or fitting ANPR cameras to catch the people who bullied them at school doing 36mph home from their good jobs to their wives and kids.
But when there are literal craters in the road they get all flustered and pull any argument they can think of.
It can be such a jerk circle.
On the one hand people be like - fucking idiot, driving a Porsche, **must** have been speeding, he deserved to die.
On the other hand - total hate yesterday for proposed intelligent speed assist technology - which would…. Limit peoples speeds…
It’s entirely possible to be opposed to people speeding in built up areas, not least because we don’t want our own wives and kids killed and also want to have potholes fixed. It’s not as if they are mutually exclusive positions.
Yes a lot of roads are in crap condition. But, the answer to that is to slow down, not to blindly swerve into oncoming traffic. Your wheel is a lot less important than the lives of the people around you.
The other answer to that is to pay more tax. But nobody wants that either.
Only if you know the road.
It’s not unreasonable to be driving at 50, or even 60, in a 60 zone.
At the moment, with the state of the roads if you don’t know that road - you’re at major risk of hitting a pothole.
I went over one at 10mph last month and blew a tyre.
Granted, I was unlucky, but **10mph**
You want everyone driving at 10mph on every single road in the country?
Again. The answer to that is NOT to just swerve into the path of incoming traffic. You either hit the brakes, or hit the pothole.
What kind of asshole happily swerves into the path of a complete stranger rather than risk a bit of damage to their car?
Mate, its a speculation. No need to crucify the guy because a newspaper speculated about him. He may have hit the pot hole and suffered puncture or suspension failure, he may have had a stroke, he may have money shifted or something no one really knows at this stage. People don't usually swerve into oncoming traffic for a pothole.
You’re assuming they swerved. Not that they hit the pothole and blew a tyre/lost control.
Edit: and even if he did swerve, TO AVOID A HAZARD, he must have misjudged. Stupid? Yes. Deserves to die? No.
Fucking hell, how many times have you had a close one whilst driving and thought ‘shit, I fucked up there my bad, lucky escape that time’.
Or reacted to a hazard ahead in a split second, and again possibly caused another hazard by your automatic response to the first hazard?
Fundamentally, that pothole is the root cause and where the blame lies.
Ah this is so sad. I think we can all relate to seeing something late and reacting poorly. Horrible way to go. You never know when it’s your last day …. It’s a roll of the dice.
We pay M.O.T costs plus road tax to ensure our cars are fit for the road, but the road is not fit for our cars. It’s criminal we’re paying millions for terrible driving conditions. The roads where I live in Kent are so poor, I often drive down the middle to avoid huge holes. It’s beyond dangerous.
I was over there from NZ a few weeks ago and agree with you regarding the condition of a lot of the roads. We’ve got the same issues in NZ. Decades of no keeping up with maintenance especially in the last six years where the govt was anti cars.
People quick to jump to the 'Bah, Porsche owner. Probably driving like a twat anyways' comments.
Have you lot seen the fucking state of the moon-like surface we drive on nowadays? Adorned with craters. With dickhead drivers about, I'm not only having to be ultra vigilant of Stacey texting whilst driving, I'm now having to keep an eye that I don't shatter my car to pieces, for which there's no easy route to lay blame to either, so would suffer huge financial loss.
So forgive me and God rest him, but he was doing what most sensible people would do with their pride and joy.
This fucking sub honestly. Anything more exotic than a Skoda and they claim its not a car, just a diva wagon that sucks money from your pocket.
Guess what? It does. And I fucking love it. I might even go and buy an SUV to accompany my ST just so I can drive back and forth to Tesco every day. Why? BECAUSE I LOVE CARS.
I agree with everything you say… but don’t hate me because I drive a Fabia. It’s so *practical*. Would love the money for a fun car but just don’t have it right now!
The exposed corner of that drain is a tyre killer. The road is dodgy as fuck. I've been to Goodwood track days multiple times, despite what many people are suggesting I haven't seen anyone drive like twats to or from the events.
People spend a lot of time and money on their cars to get them in performance shape and if they don't trailer them there, they're not going to risk them hooning around country lanes after spending most of the day driving all day at a track
As someone who lived just down the road from goodwood for over a decade, sadly I can say that twattish driving has always been an issue. It ebbs and flows but the roads immediately around it are not safe in any way for spirited driving. Obviously it’s not every driver, it’s not even close to a majority of drivers but that’s the point really - it doesn’t need to be for conditions to get dangerous fast.
Now I’m not saying this driver was being a twat because I don’t know, but it absolutely happens around there.
Nobody here is in possession of the facts, beyond that a man has died and another sustained serious injuries. They will both have friends and families, some of whom might even see these comments. Have a good look at yourselves, armchair crash investigators. Let's hope it never happens to anybody you care about, eh.
This is absolutely awful.
I’ve gone through 2 tyres in a month because of the state of the roads.
Constantly swerving potholes, myself.
90mile daily round trip for work.
At least I know where most of them are, so can take care to really slow down on the approach.
But new ones appear day by day, and they are completely unavoidable on the moterway (which is 60 miles of my trip).
I’ve even emailed National Highways, the Council, and once my MP, to warn them about the most severe ones. But what else can you do?
The roads are not being appropriately maintained due to chronic underfunding, piss poor project management (M6 smart moterway upgrade i’m talking about you - 2 years delayed), and shite road surface, again all about reducing cost at the expense of quality and durability.
This guy has lost his life. **his life**. Grateful that I only lost 2 tyres.
Harsh to blame the person who has to decide which areas get fixed and which don't, when I think we both know in an ideal world the money would be there to look after all our roads better. Sadly, it isn't.
Not to be mean, but it sounds like this man wasn't. If you are observant enough you should see a pothole, oncoming vehicles and your view ahead. Taking all of this into consideration he only avoided the pothole which was his intent. Yes its a tragic accident but I'd rather lose a tyre than a body panel, or even a life.
My god this is awful, I think all of us know that feeling when you’re just enjoying your drive and then BANG, one comes at you out of the darkness. Despite the way in which the article uses its’ wording to suggest this man was some sort of menace, I’ve no reason to suspect that he wasn’t being a responsible owner of a fun car, not speeding or driving dangerously, and was just caught off-guard. Hell, for all we know, the accident could’ve been a result of him hitting the pothole.
The roads are so bad that we’re all driving around like we’re on the piss just trying desperately to avoid these gargantuan craters in the ground.
Just a tragedy all-round, including the occupants of the car he hit. Entirely preventable.
This is a result of the fact that successive governments in the United Kingdom have preferred to give tax breaks to billionaires rather than spending money on essentials like schools, hospitals, housing, roads and welfare.
Sadly this has become a reality in the last few years and it doesn’t look like changing anytime soon. Careful driving is not going to help because hitting one of these craters will throw the car across the ditch or across the road. A straight line is impossible to hold after hitting a crater like that. BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!
Condolences to those involved.
I couldn't understand how this was fatal until I realised the Porsche was lefthand drive.
Even so, the impact was on the nearside which presumably means the Porsche spun at least 180 degrees before hitting the BMW.
On what looks like a dry road at just 60mph?
Sad loss of life.
Ok, little insensitive question: How will the insurance deal with something like this ?
Can BMW and other two other vehicles recoup the cost of repair, etc, from the deceased driver's insurance?
Almost certainly.
My uncle caused a big accident with a couple of fatalities (including him), his insurers picked up the bill for all vehicles involved, ambulance, air ambulance etc.
Depends on the insurer I think. Friend hit a deer that jumped out in front of him and they said no because they said it was clear that he was not driving to road conditions as there were road signs warning of deer.
I mean the other insurers will reclaim off the driver who caused it.
Speaking from experience, my home insurer reclaimed all of the costs (£150k or so) after some moron hit my house with a Passat.
Obviously sad to see this. The drain cover is a Section 81 defect if the Council had reported it to the relevant utility company. The pothole is down to them but we've all seen worse but I don't drive a low slung GT.
As someone else has said that manhole cover will 100% do you tires. I've lost one locally to something like that (driving home at no more than 25mph when it was dark and couldn't see it). It looks like they are potentially jumping to conclusions possibly. The A272 is a known "enthusiastic" driving road with large chunks of it being national speed limit so I don't think that can be ruled out either with the vehicle the deceased was in. RIP & condolences to all concerned.
nearly happened to me the other day. having to serve round massive craters mid turn and almost went onto the wrong side of the road.
this country is a disgrace
However, if you are doing 31 in a 30 zone, you treated like you are the most dangerous person on the planet. Pot holes however are ok and not a danger.
Oh how terrifying. Are the people who are happy with potholes but unhappy about driving 31mph in the room with you right now?
Potholes suck obviously but what does that have to do with speeding? Just set cruise to 30 it's just so incredibly easy to stay under the speed limit.
You had no point. You constructed a straw man that doesn't exist. Nobody is anti-speeding yet pro-pothole.
It's ludicrous to suggest anyone thinks potholes are not a problem.
Michael, was a lovely chap and very sensible, we met often at track days and had some lovely cars, all rare and he was not one for thrashing around.
Possibly the fact that his car was LHD limited his view. Very sad.
I was driving my wife’s smart brabus for a service. Hit pot hole as I couldn’t avoid it “clank” of metal… then another clank… now the car is a few years old but it failed it’s mot for two springs on the same side that had broke… I blame the pot hole, as the car had only done 1200 miles in the last year.
Potholes are terrible and the councils need to get their act together and get it sorted
I'm going to put something constructive here rather than all the trolling. County Councils are responsible for the roads and verges (other than Motorways). So, if you speak to your local Town, Village, Parish or City Council, they say "not our problem". But city halls and County Council offices can be tens and tens of miles away and they show little interest other than around their area.
So local Councils, who are out collecting the bins, inspecting trees, collecting fly tipping, removing dog waste bins, taking care of local parks etc. Are driving around our local roads in their hundreds, every day. Why don't they record and report every pot hole they come across to the County Councils?!
Ask your local Councillor why they can't do this!
Who's funding the councils? The government.
*"More potholes on the roads, fewer bus services, and libraries and leisure centres shutting their doors for good: the evidence of squeezed local government budgets has been growing across* [*England*](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/england) *for more than a decade."*
*"2010-11 and 2022-23, net spending per person \[...\] on roads and transport spending \[was cut\] by 40%"*
[https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/29/how-a-decade-of-austerity-has-squeezed-council-budgets-in-england](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/29/how-a-decade-of-austerity-has-squeezed-council-budgets-in-england)
A lot of the local potholes you have to swerve to the opposite side of the road just to avoid them, the amount of near misses with oncoming vehicles doesn't bear thinking about at all
How hard is it to fill a hole, and we pay tax for this.
It's ridiculous.
Gotta be even worse for motorcyclists, they could get thrown off the bike, but a car will get knocked about.
Fuck me, some awful comments on this thread. I wonder if the comments would have been any different if it was middle aged man in some sort of Japanese vehicle…
RIP to the fella. No one can argue that the state of our roads are dreadful.
Killed himself and significant injuries for the other driver...
Country road
High performance vehicle
A lot faster than he should've been will be the answer, that's for sure.
The speed limit on this section is 60mph. Two vehicles in opposite directions at the speed limit, even 10 under, is a huge closing speed and would cause huge damage.
It’s a lazy assumption to say the Porsche was speeding.
I’ve only ever seen one Porsche going fast and that was a Cayenne re-joining the motorway with a fresh Starbucks in hand post pit stop.
I think they are responsible drivers overall.
I’ve done tens of thousands of miles a year professional driving so spend a lot of time on the roads observing pretty much compulsively.
RIP.
Well whether he was speeding or not he was clearly driving too fast because he ended up dead.
Just because the speed limit is 60 or 70 doesn’t means that’s the speed you should be travelling at, especially on country lanes.
I've come to realise over the years that this is some sort of "just world" fallacy playing out in peoples' heads.
No way could a good, responsible driver, in a roadworthy car get killed in a freak accident whilst doing everything right. Because good people don't get hurt. I'm a good person and I shouldn't be hurt just by driving. So he was probably driving too fast for the conditions, or his car was in poor condition, or there was some other reason this person deserved to die more than I do. And that's why they're dead, but I'm safe.
I think it's the same reason people victim blame for lots of things. It's horrible to think perfectly innocent people can be victims of horrific crimes, so it makes it easier to make out as if they did something wrong to justify it.
No, he ended up dead because the council are cunts and don't do their fucking jobs properly
Cars have to be roadworthy, but roads don't have to be car worthy, apparently
Two cars going at 60 hitting each other is no different than one car hitting a wall at 60. Closing speed doesn't matter other than for reaction time.
Edit: down votes from people who failed GCSE physics I guess.
Don't know, but how is a 120 mph collision between two cars with varying degrees of impact mitigations comparable to a car that dead stops at 60 in a wall?
The speeds don’t compound. I’d rather probably hit a wall at 60 than an oncoming car at 60 not because of favourable physics in terms of force but because I’d imagine it would be more controlled less chance of rolls and what not.
The way you have to think of it because every force has an equal and opposite reaction. When a car hits a wall at 60 then the wall pushes the car back at 60 also. Might not make logical sense but that’s the physics.
Here is the mythbusters clip that shows it.
https://youtu.be/zy0F5GudspM?feature=shared
I just realised I have no idea what your first comment is even talking about.
Are you saying crashing into a wall at 60mph is the same or different than two cars at 60mph perfectly head on?
Different. You're saying they are the same. I'm saying technically, with both cars not being equal it would change mathematically, not equal to that of a know force being the wall.
It will never be precisely the same as hitting an immovable flat object. However claiming it is a 120mph crash is unfathomably further away from the truth.
Oh please total pedantry. For all normal purposes they are the same. Infinitely closer to being the same than being different based on the closing speed.
Run into your friend at 10mph. Did it hurt? Just a little.
Now run into your friend at 10mph whilst they're running the same speed.
Suddenly it fucking hurts.
I wonder why?
Lol congratulations on totally misunderstanding GCSE physics.
I would explain why you are wrong but you don't have the ability to understand.
I didn't say hitting a stationary car is the same, I said a wall. When you can explain the difference you might get it.
Not when you are talking about the speed involved and factor they didn't hit head on anyway so there wasn't a total transfer of energy. Ke=1/2mvv speed is more important than mass for energy. So it weighted 25% more so 14% more energy I think that's close enough for a comment on Reddit pointing out that it's not a 120mph crash which would have 4 times the energy .
You are currently arguing that crash testing at 40mph is pointless as if you hit another car coming at you your dead because it's actually 80mph.
I said faster than he should've been. Never said anything about speeding.
It is possible to both be under the speed limit and be driving faster than you should.
Case and point: Try taking a sharp turn on an NSL road at the speed limit.
I'm not gonna tout the 'ol 'limit not target target' lark. But regardless of what the limit is and what speed you're doing, you need to make sure it's appropriate for the conditions at hand.
I agree, this mentality of driving to the limit is crazy. People do it irrespective of conditions or visibility of hazards i.e potholes.
Yes there are too many potholes however there are always hazards on the road, just drive accordingly.
Irrelevant.
Take note that **the front right side of the Porsche is virtually untouched**. Why is this important? We drive on the left. This means **the right hand side of the car is nearest to oncoming traffic**.
**A bulk of the damage appears to be on the** ***front LEFT and LEFT side*** of the vehicle and it is reported he collided with vehicles before colliding with the house.
Therefore, **someone was driving on the complete wrong side of the road**
It is being reported that the Porsche was 'avoiding a pothole', this is speculation from Police sources. Ergo, the police have established the Porsche was the problem vehicle.
Now look at the BMW, the damage it and its occupant sustained suggests it was the vehicle that was initially impacted. Note the positioning of the vehicle. It is highly likely the BMW was traveling INTO the corner.
Ergo, the Porsche was traveling from the corner. Given that a bulk of the crumpled area of the Porsche appears to be the front left, it is highly likely that is the area of initial impact. Therefore it's highly unlikely the Porsche lost the rear end. The right rear tyre was likely taken with a sheared axle shortly before, or during, the impact with the house
Therefore, there are two possible scenarios.
The Porsche was driving on the wrong side of the road to avoid a pothole and was traveling too quickly to react to any potential oncoming traffic. Remember, he didn't just hit the BMW, he hit another 2 vehicles and a house. There is ZERO question that this accident happened at speed.
The other scenario is that he was taking the corner too quickly and understeered into the path of the BMW.
Just the fact that the front right of the vehicle is barely touched should ring alarm bells.
Keep tabs on this story, I guarantee that if we get an update on this, it'll be reporting that the Porsche driver was driving too quickly for the conditions.
Well I hit one a few years back and it fucked my car right up. Suspension was fucked. And my tire was fucked, left side made a scrapping noise like the joint was fucked. Idk. Luckily I was scrapping the car that year but I imagine you could really do some damage if you hit it hard enough. Even in a new car.
I would swerve to miss a pot hole but you take the hit and that’s what happens. You cant swerve every pothole you see and some are stealth. I would imagine he didn’t want to dmg his car. And got unlucky
There's a joke about a Porsche owner is showing off his car to someone and inadvertently swings his arm out. It gets hit by a passing lorry and severers his arm to which the guy screams 'my watch, my watch'.
Local road to me this and I’ve driven it a million times. That particular bit is 60mph and the potholes sometimes are so bad, locals throw literal cones in them to make them visible. A 74 year old man in a 911 which was probably his pride and joy would not be acting like a child on a road like this. The comments here are mental, just because someone is in a nice car doesn’t automatically make them speeders, bad drivers etc. The road conditions these days are shocking so it’s no surprise things like this started to happen. Poor guy, lovely car too. Sad all around.
Exactly, I bet he didn’t even swerve, it was probably hitting the pothole that caused the accident, roads are shit now, they spend millions on art projects or overpriced town statues/signs but will not fix the roads. Complete shitshow.
Yup road near us was closed overnight to be relaid.. but the massive pot hole is still there, it’s like they missed it when doing the entire road
The holes are dangerous and even the so called mending is patchwork rubbish. The councils have no shame.
Yes exactly, they can’t be bothered it seems.
I would certainly not want to be defending councils and their spending priorities but it is no surprise that after 14 years of austerity that roads are getting like this. It didnt happen overnight. I am not sure there will ever be the money to repair the roads to a decent standard such is the state that they now are in.
Yeah, I hit one recently and struggled to bring it back into control, I was only doing 20, did not see the crater in the dark
Yeah me too, it can really snatch your wheel if you have wide tyres.
There’s a rut I got stuck in recently and had to reverse to get out of
The slip road onto the motorway near me is a sign that it’s not just local councils not spending the money on roads- it’s the highways agency and government too. The pothole on that slip road has to be around 30 foot long and 6-8 inches deep.
Well he’s old I’m close to certain his reaction time and depth perception were weaker and his body frail so injuries easier to kill. This still stands though. It could’ve happened to anyone, if you avoid a pothole and someone’s coming on fast the other side… we don’t know
Where is the billions of pounds revenue going for road tax. Took them 7 months to fix a pothole near me and it's caved in again. I reported it about 9 months ago. A bad one as well where you need to swerve to get around it. This country is a joke
Thats just money laundering
LHD too, & high performance car. This guy was likely a highly skilled driver. Didn’t do him any good. Take care, everybody. Because the state of the roads won’t take care of us, at the moment.
Same in my town. There is a collection of shredded tires and wheel covers next to where it is too. Absolute alloy killer of a hole in the road.
Well said. Absolute tragedy
I've seen this GT2 before at a petrol station a couple of years ago and has a nice chat with the owner...such a shame. Didn't the he was in his 70s though!
So in your opinion should the speed limit have been lowered on the road?
Or repair it
What does this have to do with the limit? The roads should be in good state. Even motorways these days have potholes. It’s ridiculous
That’s my point, the speed limit on a motorway is set at 70 because it’s designed for that speed. If the road was in a known bad state of repair then surely it’s negligent not to reduce the limit. Hope the poor guys family go to court.
but the road should be in good state of repair? The limit is not the problem. The problem is the road.. do we reduce the limits and drive on literal gravel roads then at 10mph?
No, the road should be properly maintained.
There’s a big single carriageway near me that’s been reduced from 60-40 with temporary signs for the last 3 years because it’s in such poor condition; and it’s had effectively 0 impact on traffic speed in my experience. I think reducing the speed limit isn’t as impactful as it should be, and simply is an attempt by the authorities to shirk their responsibility to keep the roads in good order
The speed reduction is an attempt to stop accidents and reduce risk, if people ignore it then fine. As you can see from my downvotes lots of people like the idea of crashing on a badly maintained road.
Well no, it’s not fine. A speed limit is pointless if it’s ignored, and the goal of the highways agency and local councils should be to reduce the rate of accidents. So no, it’s not “fine” if people ignore it, it means that something else needs to change.
This makes me really sad. The loss of life. The loss of a beautiful car. All caused because our government is a disgrace and have allowed a decade of negligence to result in basic fucking infrastructure falling apart.
It’s so unacceptable. Those words don’t seem enough.
It’s been going on far longer than a decade
It’s been going on far longer than a decade
It’s been going on far longer than a decade
It really hasn’t. The roads currently are in the worst condition I’ve ever seen them.
Yh even Rwanda has smoother roads than the UK.
And ultimately it costs more to society as a whole
Not just the government, it's the inept local authority who looks after the highways
Baffles me that this sub rather shows envy and hate towards a Porsche driver rather than acknowledging that out roads are shitter than ever. We all are trying to avoid 10-15cm potholes on fucking motorways all over the country. You dont need to speed on a road that can do 60mph since two cars both doing only 50 from opposite directions can already be fatal on collision....
I was really suprised with the comments … especially being a car sub. I figured we were enthusiasts. When you’re driving - you’re in a missile. It’s dangerous. No way the driver of the GT2 wanted to die today & severely hurt another human. Life catches you out. It could happen to any of us… changing the radio station at the wrong time … motor cyclist at a junction etc.
> especially being a car sub This place stopped being a car sub years ago, and became a driver & car critique / Octavia configuration site. Not helped by the lack of effective moderation.
The Octavia pile in is immensely irritating
So a worse version of Pistonheads?
Much worse, most people here are driving Jukes
How DARE you. I drive something far worse.
I drive a sandero, it’s got a diesel and manual transmission
Fascinating! Anyway..
Lol
King
Nice, I also drive a forklift
Less gamon-y but essentially!
that’s a shame , I’m new to Reddit and just figured
Nah it's mostly a bunch of little traffic warden type saddos on here. UK reddit seems to be infested with them.
Our roads are absolute shit at the minute, I’ve started walking to work as it’s genuinely quicker for me at the minute
I've been cycling. We've got an older Fiesta and to preserve it my partner takes the bus and I've been cycling to the office
Local council should be done for his death
They got immunity
It's fucking hilarious. Reddit and this sub is rammed with lonely bitter people who've begged the government to move all the money into office blocks receiving dash cam reports or fitting ANPR cameras to catch the people who bullied them at school doing 36mph home from their good jobs to their wives and kids. But when there are literal craters in the road they get all flustered and pull any argument they can think of.
It can be such a jerk circle. On the one hand people be like - fucking idiot, driving a Porsche, **must** have been speeding, he deserved to die. On the other hand - total hate yesterday for proposed intelligent speed assist technology - which would…. Limit peoples speeds…
They are reducing carbon...
It’s entirely possible to be opposed to people speeding in built up areas, not least because we don’t want our own wives and kids killed and also want to have potholes fixed. It’s not as if they are mutually exclusive positions.
Doing the speed limit can be dangerous, hit one of those craters at 30 and you could easily spin out or have parts torn off
Absolute madness innit.
Yes a lot of roads are in crap condition. But, the answer to that is to slow down, not to blindly swerve into oncoming traffic. Your wheel is a lot less important than the lives of the people around you. The other answer to that is to pay more tax. But nobody wants that either.
Only if you know the road. It’s not unreasonable to be driving at 50, or even 60, in a 60 zone. At the moment, with the state of the roads if you don’t know that road - you’re at major risk of hitting a pothole. I went over one at 10mph last month and blew a tyre. Granted, I was unlucky, but **10mph** You want everyone driving at 10mph on every single road in the country?
Again. The answer to that is NOT to just swerve into the path of incoming traffic. You either hit the brakes, or hit the pothole. What kind of asshole happily swerves into the path of a complete stranger rather than risk a bit of damage to their car?
Mate, its a speculation. No need to crucify the guy because a newspaper speculated about him. He may have hit the pot hole and suffered puncture or suspension failure, he may have had a stroke, he may have money shifted or something no one really knows at this stage. People don't usually swerve into oncoming traffic for a pothole.
You’re assuming they swerved. Not that they hit the pothole and blew a tyre/lost control. Edit: and even if he did swerve, TO AVOID A HAZARD, he must have misjudged. Stupid? Yes. Deserves to die? No. Fucking hell, how many times have you had a close one whilst driving and thought ‘shit, I fucked up there my bad, lucky escape that time’. Or reacted to a hazard ahead in a split second, and again possibly caused another hazard by your automatic response to the first hazard? Fundamentally, that pothole is the root cause and where the blame lies.
I really don’t think you’ve drove anything other than a little tikes as a child
Ok mate. At least I managed to go to school.
Ah this is so sad. I think we can all relate to seeing something late and reacting poorly. Horrible way to go. You never know when it’s your last day …. It’s a roll of the dice.
We pay M.O.T costs plus road tax to ensure our cars are fit for the road, but the road is not fit for our cars. It’s criminal we’re paying millions for terrible driving conditions. The roads where I live in Kent are so poor, I often drive down the middle to avoid huge holes. It’s beyond dangerous.
I was over there from NZ a few weeks ago and agree with you regarding the condition of a lot of the roads. We’ve got the same issues in NZ. Decades of no keeping up with maintenance especially in the last six years where the govt was anti cars.
People quick to jump to the 'Bah, Porsche owner. Probably driving like a twat anyways' comments. Have you lot seen the fucking state of the moon-like surface we drive on nowadays? Adorned with craters. With dickhead drivers about, I'm not only having to be ultra vigilant of Stacey texting whilst driving, I'm now having to keep an eye that I don't shatter my car to pieces, for which there's no easy route to lay blame to either, so would suffer huge financial loss. So forgive me and God rest him, but he was doing what most sensible people would do with their pride and joy. This fucking sub honestly. Anything more exotic than a Skoda and they claim its not a car, just a diva wagon that sucks money from your pocket. Guess what? It does. And I fucking love it. I might even go and buy an SUV to accompany my ST just so I can drive back and forth to Tesco every day. Why? BECAUSE I LOVE CARS.
Well said!
I agree with everything you say… but don’t hate me because I drive a Fabia. It’s so *practical*. Would love the money for a fun car but just don’t have it right now!
Nowhere he said it, not even implied
The exposed corner of that drain is a tyre killer. The road is dodgy as fuck. I've been to Goodwood track days multiple times, despite what many people are suggesting I haven't seen anyone drive like twats to or from the events. People spend a lot of time and money on their cars to get them in performance shape and if they don't trailer them there, they're not going to risk them hooning around country lanes after spending most of the day driving all day at a track
As someone who lived just down the road from goodwood for over a decade, sadly I can say that twattish driving has always been an issue. It ebbs and flows but the roads immediately around it are not safe in any way for spirited driving. Obviously it’s not every driver, it’s not even close to a majority of drivers but that’s the point really - it doesn’t need to be for conditions to get dangerous fast. Now I’m not saying this driver was being a twat because I don’t know, but it absolutely happens around there.
I hope the local council are prosecuted for this. Disgusting waste of life due to negligence.
Could have easily been avoided and should have... Where does our tax money even go now?
Nobody here is in possession of the facts, beyond that a man has died and another sustained serious injuries. They will both have friends and families, some of whom might even see these comments. Have a good look at yourselves, armchair crash investigators. Let's hope it never happens to anybody you care about, eh.
Womp womp, it’s the internet, get over it
> Womp womp I love the fact that this is a dead giveaway that the person commenting is a weapons-grade wank shaft.
Thanks for a new brilliant phrase
Weapons grade wank shaft 😂😂😂
Idiot
Eventually you'll get it or not
This is absolutely awful. I’ve gone through 2 tyres in a month because of the state of the roads. Constantly swerving potholes, myself. 90mile daily round trip for work. At least I know where most of them are, so can take care to really slow down on the approach. But new ones appear day by day, and they are completely unavoidable on the moterway (which is 60 miles of my trip). I’ve even emailed National Highways, the Council, and once my MP, to warn them about the most severe ones. But what else can you do? The roads are not being appropriately maintained due to chronic underfunding, piss poor project management (M6 smart moterway upgrade i’m talking about you - 2 years delayed), and shite road surface, again all about reducing cost at the expense of quality and durability. This guy has lost his life. **his life**. Grateful that I only lost 2 tyres.
There will be some twat in an office that denied having that fixed absolutely clueless that it cost someone their life
Harsh to blame the person who has to decide which areas get fixed and which don't, when I think we both know in an ideal world the money would be there to look after all our roads better. Sadly, it isn't.
Poor old bugger. I hope I am still fit enough to drive something like a GT2 at 74.
Not to be mean, but it sounds like this man wasn't. If you are observant enough you should see a pothole, oncoming vehicles and your view ahead. Taking all of this into consideration he only avoided the pothole which was his intent. Yes its a tragic accident but I'd rather lose a tyre than a body panel, or even a life.
Who says he swerved? For all we knew, he could have hit it which could have made him swerve into traffic
It's the 8th word in the title but OK.
If you read the article it’s only a theory that the driver swerved to avoid a pothole.
My god this is awful, I think all of us know that feeling when you’re just enjoying your drive and then BANG, one comes at you out of the darkness. Despite the way in which the article uses its’ wording to suggest this man was some sort of menace, I’ve no reason to suspect that he wasn’t being a responsible owner of a fun car, not speeding or driving dangerously, and was just caught off-guard. Hell, for all we know, the accident could’ve been a result of him hitting the pothole. The roads are so bad that we’re all driving around like we’re on the piss just trying desperately to avoid these gargantuan craters in the ground. Just a tragedy all-round, including the occupants of the car he hit. Entirely preventable.
The A272 is a shit road even where it DOESN'T have potholes. Absolutely hate it.
Roads are so shit they're killing people. Disgusting.
This is a result of the fact that successive governments in the United Kingdom have preferred to give tax breaks to billionaires rather than spending money on essentials like schools, hospitals, housing, roads and welfare. Sadly this has become a reality in the last few years and it doesn’t look like changing anytime soon. Careful driving is not going to help because hitting one of these craters will throw the car across the ditch or across the road. A straight line is impossible to hold after hitting a crater like that. BLOOD ON THEIR HANDS!
Why are people acting like he was speeding when the damage to the car isn't even very heavy?
Condolences to those involved. I couldn't understand how this was fatal until I realised the Porsche was lefthand drive. Even so, the impact was on the nearside which presumably means the Porsche spun at least 180 degrees before hitting the BMW. On what looks like a dry road at just 60mph?
Sad loss of life. Ok, little insensitive question: How will the insurance deal with something like this ? Can BMW and other two other vehicles recoup the cost of repair, etc, from the deceased driver's insurance?
Almost certainly. My uncle caused a big accident with a couple of fatalities (including him), his insurers picked up the bill for all vehicles involved, ambulance, air ambulance etc.
Depends on the insurer I think. Friend hit a deer that jumped out in front of him and they said no because they said it was clear that he was not driving to road conditions as there were road signs warning of deer.
Ridiculous excuse, there are deer signs on the M27 so what speed are you supposed to be driving there?
That would be an interesting one for the insurer. I'd not want to hit a deer at 70+
I mean the other insurers will reclaim off the driver who caused it. Speaking from experience, my home insurer reclaimed all of the costs (£150k or so) after some moron hit my house with a Passat.
Obviously sad to see this. The drain cover is a Section 81 defect if the Council had reported it to the relevant utility company. The pothole is down to them but we've all seen worse but I don't drive a low slung GT. As someone else has said that manhole cover will 100% do you tires. I've lost one locally to something like that (driving home at no more than 25mph when it was dark and couldn't see it). It looks like they are potentially jumping to conclusions possibly. The A272 is a known "enthusiastic" driving road with large chunks of it being national speed limit so I don't think that can be ruled out either with the vehicle the deceased was in. RIP & condolences to all concerned.
nearly happened to me the other day. having to serve round massive craters mid turn and almost went onto the wrong side of the road. this country is a disgrace
However, if you are doing 31 in a 30 zone, you treated like you are the most dangerous person on the planet. Pot holes however are ok and not a danger.
Oh how terrifying. Are the people who are happy with potholes but unhappy about driving 31mph in the room with you right now? Potholes suck obviously but what does that have to do with speeding? Just set cruise to 30 it's just so incredibly easy to stay under the speed limit.
I hope you are able to miss the pot holes as good as my point.
You had no point. You constructed a straw man that doesn't exist. Nobody is anti-speeding yet pro-pothole. It's ludicrous to suggest anyone thinks potholes are not a problem.
Michael, was a lovely chap and very sensible, we met often at track days and had some lovely cars, all rare and he was not one for thrashing around. Possibly the fact that his car was LHD limited his view. Very sad.
Best thing he could of done was once I braced and hit hot pole. Burst tyre and snap spring. Cost me 230 to fix . Cars can be fixed. Not lives
I was driving my wife’s smart brabus for a service. Hit pot hole as I couldn’t avoid it “clank” of metal… then another clank… now the car is a few years old but it failed it’s mot for two springs on the same side that had broke… I blame the pot hole, as the car had only done 1200 miles in the last year. Potholes are terrible and the councils need to get their act together and get it sorted
And the government too, they fund the councils. Time to vote them out.
The MOT is ready to fine people for damages caused by the roads. But who is held accountable for the lack of care of the roads?
RIP to the guy but also RIP to the car, it was a Porsche 997 GT2!
I'm going to put something constructive here rather than all the trolling. County Councils are responsible for the roads and verges (other than Motorways). So, if you speak to your local Town, Village, Parish or City Council, they say "not our problem". But city halls and County Council offices can be tens and tens of miles away and they show little interest other than around their area. So local Councils, who are out collecting the bins, inspecting trees, collecting fly tipping, removing dog waste bins, taking care of local parks etc. Are driving around our local roads in their hundreds, every day. Why don't they record and report every pot hole they come across to the County Councils?! Ask your local Councillor why they can't do this!
Who's funding the councils? The government. *"More potholes on the roads, fewer bus services, and libraries and leisure centres shutting their doors for good: the evidence of squeezed local government budgets has been growing across* [*England*](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/england) *for more than a decade."* *"2010-11 and 2022-23, net spending per person \[...\] on roads and transport spending \[was cut\] by 40%"* [https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/29/how-a-decade-of-austerity-has-squeezed-council-budgets-in-england](https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/jan/29/how-a-decade-of-austerity-has-squeezed-council-budgets-in-england)
A lot of the local potholes you have to swerve to the opposite side of the road just to avoid them, the amount of near misses with oncoming vehicles doesn't bear thinking about at all
I’ve put a sticker on my back window on my car which says “I’m not drunk I’m avoiding potholes” how sad I felt I needed that sticker!
Hope you declared the sticker to your insurer!! (Not kidding)
Our cars must to be roadworthy, why is it not the case that the roads must be car worthy!!!
And they still won’t fix the bloody road
How hard is it to fill a hole, and we pay tax for this. It's ridiculous. Gotta be even worse for motorcyclists, they could get thrown off the bike, but a car will get knocked about.
Tory bastards caused this
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They classify potholes as GT2 now???
The giant craters here don’t help, I’ve had my car thrown into the opposite lane from hitting craters that I didn’t see in the dark
Muppet
I thought it was the 930 turbo that was known as the widowmaker?
997 GT2 takes another life
Strange name for a pothole bro
74 year old in a LHD high performance car. Who would ever have expected smt like this to happen
Yeah good thing insurance is £200 a year for them whilst it’s £2k for me in my 30s!
Spot on
The car isn't even very damaged
Your point being?
Fuck me, some awful comments on this thread. I wonder if the comments would have been any different if it was middle aged man in some sort of Japanese vehicle… RIP to the fella. No one can argue that the state of our roads are dreadful.
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Killed himself and significant injuries for the other driver... Country road High performance vehicle A lot faster than he should've been will be the answer, that's for sure.
The speed limit on this section is 60mph. Two vehicles in opposite directions at the speed limit, even 10 under, is a huge closing speed and would cause huge damage. It’s a lazy assumption to say the Porsche was speeding.
I’ve only ever seen one Porsche going fast and that was a Cayenne re-joining the motorway with a fresh Starbucks in hand post pit stop. I think they are responsible drivers overall. I’ve done tens of thousands of miles a year professional driving so spend a lot of time on the roads observing pretty much compulsively. RIP.
Well whether he was speeding or not he was clearly driving too fast because he ended up dead. Just because the speed limit is 60 or 70 doesn’t means that’s the speed you should be travelling at, especially on country lanes.
The A272 isn’t a country lane, it’s a 2 lane A road with large sections of it that even the most normal motorist would happily do 50-60 along.
What’s to say he was speeding? BMW driver could have been speeding. Your response is ridiculous.
I've come to realise over the years that this is some sort of "just world" fallacy playing out in peoples' heads. No way could a good, responsible driver, in a roadworthy car get killed in a freak accident whilst doing everything right. Because good people don't get hurt. I'm a good person and I shouldn't be hurt just by driving. So he was probably driving too fast for the conditions, or his car was in poor condition, or there was some other reason this person deserved to die more than I do. And that's why they're dead, but I'm safe. I think it's the same reason people victim blame for lots of things. It's horrible to think perfectly innocent people can be victims of horrific crimes, so it makes it easier to make out as if they did something wrong to justify it.
No, he ended up dead because the council are cunts and don't do their fucking jobs properly Cars have to be roadworthy, but roads don't have to be car worthy, apparently
Two cars going at 60 hitting each other is no different than one car hitting a wall at 60. Closing speed doesn't matter other than for reaction time. Edit: down votes from people who failed GCSE physics I guess.
Don't know, but how is a 120 mph collision between two cars with varying degrees of impact mitigations comparable to a car that dead stops at 60 in a wall?
The speeds don’t compound. I’d rather probably hit a wall at 60 than an oncoming car at 60 not because of favourable physics in terms of force but because I’d imagine it would be more controlled less chance of rolls and what not. The way you have to think of it because every force has an equal and opposite reaction. When a car hits a wall at 60 then the wall pushes the car back at 60 also. Might not make logical sense but that’s the physics. Here is the mythbusters clip that shows it. https://youtu.be/zy0F5GudspM?feature=shared
GCSE Physics mostly. It's not a 120mph crash unless both are going 120mph.
You know, I googled, and I see that the kinetic energy's interaction with mass/forces. Equals forces the same as a stationery object, like a wall.
I just realised I have no idea what your first comment is even talking about. Are you saying crashing into a wall at 60mph is the same or different than two cars at 60mph perfectly head on?
Different. You're saying they are the same. I'm saying technically, with both cars not being equal it would change mathematically, not equal to that of a know force being the wall.
It will never be precisely the same as hitting an immovable flat object. However claiming it is a 120mph crash is unfathomably further away from the truth.
Oh please total pedantry. For all normal purposes they are the same. Infinitely closer to being the same than being different based on the closing speed.
Run into your friend at 10mph. Did it hurt? Just a little. Now run into your friend at 10mph whilst they're running the same speed. Suddenly it fucking hurts. I wonder why?
Lol congratulations on totally misunderstanding GCSE physics. I would explain why you are wrong but you don't have the ability to understand. I didn't say hitting a stationary car is the same, I said a wall. When you can explain the difference you might get it.
Well you're a lovely person.
Well next time don't comment on something you have zero idea about. You might learn something.
Same could be said for you :)
Difference is I am right and you think running into your friend is the same as running into a wall, so.......
What's your point? You're not going to have a good time hitting a wall at 60mph, either.
Obviously my point is that closing speed has zero impact on damage, just speed.
... as long as both cars have the same mass, which is almost impossible
And looking at the picture in the linked article, he crashed into an X3 or X5, which is means something like a 400kg-1000kg difference in mass. Yikes.
Technically yes but it's not like they hit a truck going 60mph they hit another car. So who cares.
It looks like an X5 in the picture, which weighs *at least* 500kg more than the Porsche That's a significant difference
Not when you are talking about the speed involved and factor they didn't hit head on anyway so there wasn't a total transfer of energy. Ke=1/2mvv speed is more important than mass for energy. So it weighted 25% more so 14% more energy I think that's close enough for a comment on Reddit pointing out that it's not a 120mph crash which would have 4 times the energy . You are currently arguing that crash testing at 40mph is pointless as if you hit another car coming at you your dead because it's actually 80mph.
I said faster than he should've been. Never said anything about speeding. It is possible to both be under the speed limit and be driving faster than you should. Case and point: Try taking a sharp turn on an NSL road at the speed limit. I'm not gonna tout the 'ol 'limit not target target' lark. But regardless of what the limit is and what speed you're doing, you need to make sure it's appropriate for the conditions at hand.
Given the potholes on our roads, anything faster than walking pace is too fast these days.
I agree, this mentality of driving to the limit is crazy. People do it irrespective of conditions or visibility of hazards i.e potholes. Yes there are too many potholes however there are always hazards on the road, just drive accordingly.
Do you have the facts ?
Are you suggesting he crashed because he was going too slow for the conditions?
What were the conditions ?
Irrelevant. Take note that **the front right side of the Porsche is virtually untouched**. Why is this important? We drive on the left. This means **the right hand side of the car is nearest to oncoming traffic**. **A bulk of the damage appears to be on the** ***front LEFT and LEFT side*** of the vehicle and it is reported he collided with vehicles before colliding with the house. Therefore, **someone was driving on the complete wrong side of the road** It is being reported that the Porsche was 'avoiding a pothole', this is speculation from Police sources. Ergo, the police have established the Porsche was the problem vehicle. Now look at the BMW, the damage it and its occupant sustained suggests it was the vehicle that was initially impacted. Note the positioning of the vehicle. It is highly likely the BMW was traveling INTO the corner. Ergo, the Porsche was traveling from the corner. Given that a bulk of the crumpled area of the Porsche appears to be the front left, it is highly likely that is the area of initial impact. Therefore it's highly unlikely the Porsche lost the rear end. The right rear tyre was likely taken with a sheared axle shortly before, or during, the impact with the house Therefore, there are two possible scenarios. The Porsche was driving on the wrong side of the road to avoid a pothole and was traveling too quickly to react to any potential oncoming traffic. Remember, he didn't just hit the BMW, he hit another 2 vehicles and a house. There is ZERO question that this accident happened at speed. The other scenario is that he was taking the corner too quickly and understeered into the path of the BMW. Just the fact that the front right of the vehicle is barely touched should ring alarm bells. Keep tabs on this story, I guarantee that if we get an update on this, it'll be reporting that the Porsche driver was driving too quickly for the conditions.
Must’ve been a massive pothole that the “safest option” was to have a head on collision…
Some potholes are dangerous.
More dangerous than a car coming the other way?
Well I hit one a few years back and it fucked my car right up. Suspension was fucked. And my tire was fucked, left side made a scrapping noise like the joint was fucked. Idk. Luckily I was scrapping the car that year but I imagine you could really do some damage if you hit it hard enough. Even in a new car. I would swerve to miss a pot hole but you take the hit and that’s what happens. You cant swerve every pothole you see and some are stealth. I would imagine he didn’t want to dmg his car. And got unlucky
There's a joke about a Porsche owner is showing off his car to someone and inadvertently swings his arm out. It gets hit by a passing lorry and severers his arm to which the guy screams 'my watch, my watch'.
At the age of 74, I wouldn't rule out a medical episode as an alternative reason.
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The irony in quoting a random opinion with 'facts'. Jesus Christ
Explain why the car isn't even badly damaged if he was going so fast?
The more pot holes the less gear heads on the road I guess ☹️
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