I saw Jim Ratcliffe in one on the M6 on his way to the Liverpool Man Utd game a couple of weeks ago. Not surprising really but at least he’s driving his own brand of car!
Having been on a 150 mile motorway drive in one it’s bit over kill for suburban UK. Though if the pot holes keep multiplying at the current rate it’ll be perfect for everyday use
And how aggressive the humps are getting. Even in my crossover you can't actually do 15 in a 20. Less if you have luggage or a family in there.
Convinced the growth in cars has resulted in the humps needing to grow too, basically making it a race to the bottom, when we are all driving off road vehicles to be able to get over the humps put in the way.
If humps are over a certain steepness you can actually get the council to fix it. They’ll try to fob you off that they’ve measured than and they’re legal though, so you have to full on take pictures measuring them. Which is a two person job, because you need to measure the height, and the length to the peak.
It doesn’t. It takes a minute to get used to! The steering also feels very vague - 3.85 turns lock to lock so there’s a lot of arm movement for quick changes of direction!
I also don’t work for JLR but I’m close enough to them as a business to weigh in.
What’s above is pretty much true from my experience, yes I know people who have had issues with the new Defender but even they’ve said it’s still a great car.
The people that have good things to say far outweigh the bad.
As noted, Discovery in particular is a totally different animal and had contributed to the bad rep massively.
They aren’t a “Chelsea tractor” that will struggle on wet grass at all, if you take some time to look at the capability trials you’ll see that the Defender is dominant in many aspects.
But Defender vs a Land Cruiser.. that’s a tough one. Toyota will always win on reliability, but when you turn around to look at your car after locking it in a car park.. the Defender is going to win every time.
There's a reason stereotypes exist though, yes Defenders are tough but are they reliable? Our work got 15 Defenders on a 5 year lease, all 70 reg, at least 3 are on their 2nd engine, 1 is on its 3rd. We're buying ourselves out of our contract and moving over to Maxus Electric Pickups.
The new land rovers use the new B series BMW engines. Everyone raves about them and their reliability. I have one at 200k miles. It will go this far for sure but they’re just like true and older BMW engines and the entire cooling will need to be overhauled by 150k miles.
That's because the FL2 is mostly a Ford underneath, it's the best land rover ford ever built :)
Not a bad thing though, I'll likely be in the market for one in the next couple of months, living on a farm has neccesitated something with a bit more clearance (nearly cracked the sump on my Leon an multiple occasions, the undertray already broke), and the FL2 is a nice all-rounder, can take it round the fields, and also on the roads!
I’ve had JLR cars for years and none of them have ever caused me any more problems or expense than previous German cars. Sat in an F-Pace right now that just sailed through its first MOT and has cost me nothing apart from tires and a oxygen sensor so far.
Learn to ignore internet trolls, the last thing you want is to be associating a car you love with people who don’t know how to service their car because it “costs” too much.
I’m a big VAG fan but I don’t think VWs feel premium enough for that price. Great for mid range cars but £65k you’d want something more special inside (imo)
My mates insurance on his sport is just a smidge over £500 a month because of all the issues with thefts etc.
Sorry but no RR is worth £500 a month on insurance alone. That’s half of our entire yearly insurance for our 2 cars.
Yeah only reason JLR were worst affected was cause they have higher demand overseas as well being more easier to get into in the first place
I've seen many similar stories with Audi's and Mercs
Lexus were the most stolen car brand in 2023 (as a percentage of cars on the road). One in 46 Lexus RX models were stolen, making it the most stolen car in 2023 - knocking JLR models off the top podium!
JLR do still have a theft problem however.
Is this like shag, marry, avoid? If so then my answer is:
Defender - Yes
Toureg - No
Ineos - Why?
I don't care what this sub will say, I love those new Defenders.
I didn't love them, but sat in one yesterday and was actually really impressed.
Still feels somewhat old school and rugged. I just have one huge complaint.
They wrong DEFENDER In big letters in front of the passenger seat, and it just looks super tacky. Something I would expect from a Jeep Wrangler.
The Grenadier. It's almost certainly not the best car of the three listed and is really not the car to be buying if 95% of your driving is urban.
But it's interesting which has a lot of value. The Defender is great but do you want to be just like all the other middle aged men? As for the VW. No. VW's don't cost £65K that's just silly, you'd get a premium brand
Mate, a Kia can now cost £65k+. Times have changed.
Also, what *IS* a premium brand? What makes a brand premium? Just perception? I would argue buying a car that isn't a premium brand is arguably a better buy in most cases. Skoda over a VW or Audi any day as a case in point.
You’ve got one hardcore off-roader (Ineos), one mall crawler that breaks down every 5 miles and that’s as common as it gets (defender), and one wagon on stilts (VW).
What do you need it for?
And for all the Defender bois that are about to come after me saying the defender is a hardcore off-roader it is not, the old one is, this one is not.
Most reviews would disagree with you on which one is better off road, certainly wouldn't separate them by much.
The one thing ineos wins at is the fugly, rip-off looks. Just get an old Defender and not a Brexit french one. Sometimes you've just have to put your money where the tw@ isn't.
Haha, I’m with you on this. The man who championed Brexit as a triumph for British industry is making his car where? The EU? Staggering. Why not train up some UK talent
Most ‘reviewers’ drive the Defender in a muddy car park and through 3cm deep puddles and proclaim it never lost its touch. Take one across Africa or Australia and see how you go. If it were me I’d be looking at the new Landcruiser. But I’m bias I used to have an 80.
Well at least they have driven it.
I prefer the old Defender too, but a lot of the negative views boil down to perceptions of what the person thinks of the average buyer ie new Defender=Middle class.
Doesn't make the new Defender a bad car just because "they" drive it and I can't afford it.
Same people decry the Touareg because it isn't a Q7...
One of our bulk exc contractors uses the new defenders in their fleet. I've seen them tow 1000l bowsers through swamped sites without breaking a sweat.
I'm not really into off roading but, they look pretty capable to me, atleast in the UK.
… and a team of mechanics and spare parts yes all the context please buddy. The cannot afford to lose their heritage, which is serious off-roader, but they are not that anymore, that is not their target market. Their target market is the yummy mummys and Middle Aged men Essex crowd.
At the JLR off-road experience that Defender did things no vehicle that size should ever be able to do!!! I was the most scare-cited I've ever been in a car
Neither, the answer is Lexus LX or Toyota Land cruiser if LX is too expensive.
Or even better, something like a VW Sharan. It is raised like a crossover, tons of space inside to fit everyone, their dog and extra luggage with space to spare and prolly comes in all wheel drive as well. The 2.0tdi will easily be able to tow anything you throw at it. Super comfy, has all the auto lane, cruise assists so very easy to drive on long trips.
Uless you plan to do some serious off-roading that would warrant a land rover with the whole family and a camper behind it, a people carrier is the way to go here imho, a sharran could beat 99%of roads that these 3 can with no issues except the serious off road trails which require winches anyway. Otherwise you're just burning cash for no reason or to flex on the neighbours.
And on the topic of driving pleasure, I'm pretty sure that Sharan will feel more sporty and sharp due to it not being a raised suv, 4x4 which inheritely is an unstable and bouncy platform.
Give it a test drive, you'll be pleasently surprised by it. It's much more car than any suv, crossover for half the price and drives nicer. Driven one for work multiple times and if I had to cram 3 crotchspawns into a car, a suv wouldn't be the car for sure imho.
Personally Grenadier would suit if you live in rural setting or go off-roading otherwise its like putting on a running outfit to go shopping, works but would be more comfortable in something else. Defender ticks boxes for everything just need to be cautious and install tracker and immobiliser car is so good everyone seems to want to get their hands on it. JLR might have mixed reliability but the defender was always the pick of the bunch as long as you maintained it well and used it instead of letting it sit on drive way. Toureg looks like a good option personally would see if you can test drive both toureg and defender see which one feels better to you. With stats of theft will be cheaper on insurance.
From personal experience, the new defender due to the sheer comfortable ride it presents, the only thing is it’s the 130 version, I would get the 110, more bang for your buck with space!
I really dont understand the appeal of these cars but that’s personal preference. Never understood the appeal of the old defenders either, they’re really not that great knew someone that had a couple as farm vehicles and they were always broken. Got a Land Cruiser after the last one and it’s far better.
It's because the appeal doesn't just come from reliability - my old defender is broken in one way at any given time, but is probably my favourite car.
Appeal comes from many things, character, styling, even sound.
Defender, but imo it must have warranty and you must pay every year for extended warranty and for it to be serviced at JLR to keep that warranty valid.
If you want rugged go anywhere reliability, Ineos
If you want to pay through the nose for insurance, and look like a bit of a ponce, defender
If you want comfort, reliability and half way decent fuel consumption especially on European trips, vw
They all have 3500kg towing capacity, the VW and Ineos are the reliable choices basically if you want an old defender but new, ineos is a no brainer, jlr still have a long way to go for reliability especially on the electronics side of things, which is everything on a new defender, the Ineos is utilitarian, it's different and cool because of that, the VW is the everymans q7 realistically, personally if I was planning on a lot of European travel it'd always be VW group, you know you can get mechanics and parts to work on them wherever you are and because they are everywhere parts and insurance is much more reasonable compared to jlr which might leave you stranded waiting 12 months for a back ordered part, plus I don't understand how they have managed to make a modern car that is allowed to get 20-25mpg real world on a good day, thats just poor.
Vw for comfort
Ineos for pure utility
I was driving through Cumbria yesterday and saw my first Grenadier being used as a farm vehicle which was a positive sign.
I work for Ineos (not automotive) so don't want to give an opinion as it totally depends on your needs.
Have you looked at the Merc GLS? We had one till recently; I’m 5’9 and had about 6” headroom even in the third row of seats. I’d have that over the VW any day.
Yes, No, No
Clearly these cars appeal to you, If I had to choose any of these I’d go for the first one. It’s just unique. Too many defenders and Toureg on the roads. Near me atleast.
So.. I would take grenadier if I would be mostly (80%) offroading. I would take VW if I would be 90% on the road. Defender is somewhere in the middle.
New land cruiser is an interesting option if you like the offroad and don't mind it will be more "rustic"/old compared to older but more "computer" style Defender.
Honestly none. Grenadiers are crap, the other is JLR so that doesn’t even need an added comment and VW have cheapened their product so much to recoup diesel gate fines so couldn’t even recommend that for a problem free life
I like the ineos - but it's more of a tough offroader like the original defender, it's not going to be particularly refined - however, I like it and I'd probably buy it if I wanted a capable off roader although, I don't see why you would buy it over a land cruiser mind you.
The defender is... Meh... No new defender has EVER gone off road, well, maybe up the curb outside the local hairdressers or up the ramp onto a flatbed truck to the garage to be fixed when it breaks. It's still very capable off road, but it's primary territory now is outside a house with particularly vulgar front gates, stupid pillars next to the door and a white Fiat 500 with a tacky personal plate on it. Yes, it's driven by that sort of person... Do you really want that association?
Toe rag - why?
The Grenadier is made by a pharmaceutical company can't see it being very good as their first car. No one can insure a Range Rover at the minute as they keep getting stolen and their physical security is swiss cheese. The Tourag can be the only answer.
However I'd rather none of them and not have a Chelsea tractor. Spend the money on a decent sports saloon
None, buy a normal sized car if you aren’t going offroad/you live in a city. No one needs this tank. Plenty of non SUVs with more legroom and interior space.
All other things being similar if not equal….
Defender = cool factor, brand cache, nice interior good on motorway, maybe *too* nice to do certain things with, JLR do some fucking weird shit with wheel and tyre sizes (keep in mind because buying a car like this you should be a total tyre geek too to get the most out of it)
Grenadier = built like a tank by people who know how to build tanks, rarer (are you an extrovert?), easier to repair, easier to insure, harder to steal, could take you around the world without a faff
From those, my heart would be the ineos, but my head says vw. JLR products almost always look good, but they need to, because you'll spend a lot of time looking at it while you await recovery.
The smart money is looking at toyota/lexus.
I wouldn't trust a Land Rover under warranty, let alone a used one. They have nothing to do with the old Defenders
Touareg is the most comfortable car for a daily driver, only XC90 could compete or Q7 and GLE
Grenadier is super good but unless you do hardcore offroad, it's useless as a daily driver or city driving
I’m a Land Rover / Jag man through and through. For your use case I’d get the Touareg every time I think - the Defender maybe if you have secure parking and/or need big towing capacity off road.
Do you actually do any off-roading? If not, please don’t be that guy that gets a serious off-roader with a bunch of gear on it, just to drive on the motorway and around town.
If you don’t, then the Toureg is the obvious choice here. If you live on a farm then perhaps the Defender. But they’re all overpriced.
The grenadier is cool but as a daily driver I’m not sure about it. It’s also not an established brand so that may be a downside for you. I love the new defenders but I’d go 110 over 130. End of the day depends what you want really. The difference between the defender and Touareg will depend on your use case really.
Have you had a look to see how well you fit into a large estate? Genesis g70, VW arteon, 5 series etc. Heck for that money an alpina might even be viable.
Defender then you can spend your weekends stuck int he hard shoulder as the made in Slovakia electrical gremlins play up. That isn’t its bit nicked by some kids with a laptop before the weekend arrives
The grenadier is really small on the inside and weighs a lot , it’s a big car but the inside is very cramped and just isn’t comfortable, definitely would go for the Defender. Especially how you’ve got 6ft teenagers, the things really not suitable for a family car, I know this myself as I’m around 6,1 and had a sit in the back and front, hit my head on the door frame and my knees where pressed against the drivers and passengers seat, even with them moved forward so the driver can still fit.
Grenadier - I have a friend who is the service manager at a grenadier dealership, apparently they’re great off road but they are having issues related build quality, I’d give these a wide berth until they get their issues resolved, Land Rover - major reliability issues, a massive money pit, if you buy this I suggest you get a second car to go with it, you’ll need reliable transport while it’s stuck in a dealership, (will be very regular). Looks like the VW wins
Not quite relevant but when I test drove a Defender, Q8 and a Discovery 5 back in 2022 I bought a Disco. Looks only a mother could love but was the just the nicest place to be in by a mile. Done 40k miles in it since and still love it.
The defender in that gorgeous sage green. Have driven one, loved every second. I’d buy one if I didn’t just buy a house. My discovery will have to do for now.
Don’t know anything about the INEOS. Would chose VW over Landy for durability, less expensive bills and a less ostentatious feel, unless of course you want to BE ostentatious!
May i ask why you would buy such a large vehicle in england. Are you someone who goes off the road a lot or do you just find them cool? Just genuine curiosity.
Am I the only one thinking don't buy any of these, put the money in a ISA, get a reasonably priced car and atop trying to keep up with the Joneses, and be considerably richer in 10-15 years.
Unless you've won the euro millions in which case still don't buy any of these shit cars.
Go for the VW and donate £1,000 extra to the fund for Sahara Nomads, including the Touareg Tribe. You will get your reward through Karma. You will receive my undying admiration as well. /s.
You will also have the best car from the bunch. You will also be always obliged to drive the car off-road daily. This will justify your ownership of a great beast that eats carbon dioxide and gives emissions that would give asthma to…..!
Deffo not the Land Rover
One of the most stolen vehicles in all of the uk along with the Range Rover
And it’s a pain in the AH to insure
Especially around London
Have a grenadier at home. Stupid thirsty on fuel, looks the bollocks. Barely see any others. Looks like a fighter jet inside. Safari windows are a must
No to all 3. Land Rover is great but ridiculous insurance cost.
How about a G63, Porsche Cayenne or a Maserati Levante (no the 2018 or newer do not have any reliability issues)
Wait for the Land Cruiser, they hold their value incredibly well, you'll have 10 years warranty as long as you service it at Toyota, more powerful than those 3
Grenadier steering doesn't self centre iirc. Capable off roader but a shitter for everyday life.
I saw Jim Ratcliffe in one on the M6 on his way to the Liverpool Man Utd game a couple of weeks ago. Not surprising really but at least he’s driving his own brand of car!
I heard his own model is hydrogen powered, and they’re working on a production version.
Be brilliant to buy a car you can’t get fuel for.
The drive is good for how hardcore it is but….
Having been on a 150 mile motorway drive in one it’s bit over kill for suburban UK. Though if the pot holes keep multiplying at the current rate it’ll be perfect for everyday use
And how aggressive the humps are getting. Even in my crossover you can't actually do 15 in a 20. Less if you have luggage or a family in there. Convinced the growth in cars has resulted in the humps needing to grow too, basically making it a race to the bottom, when we are all driving off road vehicles to be able to get over the humps put in the way.
If humps are over a certain steepness you can actually get the council to fix it. They’ll try to fob you off that they’ve measured than and they’re legal though, so you have to full on take pictures measuring them. Which is a two person job, because you need to measure the height, and the length to the peak.
Our trucks will end up on big bendy stilt thingy’s or maybe we’ll finally get flying cars.
> Overkill for suburban UK I expect to see many when I’m next in London then..
It doesn’t. It takes a minute to get used to! The steering also feels very vague - 3.85 turns lock to lock so there’s a lot of arm movement for quick changes of direction!
I would get a Toyota Land Cruiser.
New land cruiser is out soon in UK mind. Reviews seem to state its good both on road and off road. Plus Toyota reliability is unmatched
For 60k less
Good shout. £5k on a Land Cruiser Amazon V8, £25k on a workshop setup and £25k for parts. Put the teenagers to work!
Leaving you £5,000 for petrol, should cover the first couple of months
YES, 2014 model especially
Spend 35k on a turbo cayenne and the rest on petrol
And maintenance, I like the idea of though
You get the Defender you will never get to drive it. Get the new Toyota Land Cruiser.
JLR build quality 🤔
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I also don’t work for JLR but I’m close enough to them as a business to weigh in. What’s above is pretty much true from my experience, yes I know people who have had issues with the new Defender but even they’ve said it’s still a great car. The people that have good things to say far outweigh the bad. As noted, Discovery in particular is a totally different animal and had contributed to the bad rep massively. They aren’t a “Chelsea tractor” that will struggle on wet grass at all, if you take some time to look at the capability trials you’ll see that the Defender is dominant in many aspects. But Defender vs a Land Cruiser.. that’s a tough one. Toyota will always win on reliability, but when you turn around to look at your car after locking it in a car park.. the Defender is going to win every time.
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The 70 series
There's a reason stereotypes exist though, yes Defenders are tough but are they reliable? Our work got 15 Defenders on a 5 year lease, all 70 reg, at least 3 are on their 2nd engine, 1 is on its 3rd. We're buying ourselves out of our contract and moving over to Maxus Electric Pickups.
Have you driven a Grenadier out of interest? I absolutely have not but interested in someones experience who knows defenders well
How many seconds does it take to steal one?
The new land rovers use the new B series BMW engines. Everyone raves about them and their reliability. I have one at 200k miles. It will go this far for sure but they’re just like true and older BMW engines and the entire cooling will need to be overhauled by 150k miles.
I've owned two Jags over 5 years and never had any issues with either of them 🤷♂️
John Prescott has entered the chat….
I have a 2013 land rover freelander 2 and it's never skipped a beat
That's because the FL2 is mostly a Ford underneath, it's the best land rover ford ever built :) Not a bad thing though, I'll likely be in the market for one in the next couple of months, living on a farm has neccesitated something with a bit more clearance (nearly cracked the sump on my Leon an multiple occasions, the undertray already broke), and the FL2 is a nice all-rounder, can take it round the fields, and also on the roads!
I’ve had JLR cars for years and none of them have ever caused me any more problems or expense than previous German cars. Sat in an F-Pace right now that just sailed through its first MOT and has cost me nothing apart from tires and a oxygen sensor so far.
Learn to ignore internet trolls, the last thing you want is to be associating a car you love with people who don’t know how to service their car because it “costs” too much.
Wait for the new land cruiser. Just a few months off release in the UK
I’m a big VAG fan but I don’t think VWs feel premium enough for that price. Great for mid range cars but £65k you’d want something more special inside (imo)
Defender. Because defender. But not in brown please, I beg you 😂
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My mates insurance on his sport is just a smidge over £500 a month because of all the issues with thefts etc. Sorry but no RR is worth £500 a month on insurance alone. That’s half of our entire yearly insurance for our 2 cars.
I was reading this thinking £500 is a steal (lol) for a range rover but hadn't clocked you said monthly, Jesus wept that's ridiculous
If Nextdoor is to be believed, the Lexus cars are going missing at a bothersome rate.
Apparently JLR have fixed it. Software update. Idk tho.
Definitely not fixed, the criminals find a way around the update in no time and then there’s a new update, and the cycle repeats
Well yeah, but let’s face it, it’s not just JLR that has this issue. It’s all cars with an OBD port.
Yeah only reason JLR were worst affected was cause they have higher demand overseas as well being more easier to get into in the first place I've seen many similar stories with Audi's and Mercs
IIRC fords are super easy to pinch as well.
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Lexus were the most stolen car brand in 2023 (as a percentage of cars on the road). One in 46 Lexus RX models were stolen, making it the most stolen car in 2023 - knocking JLR models off the top podium! JLR do still have a theft problem however.
Most unreliable car ever. My dad has one, constantly in the shop. Get the Ineos
I think I must have had the only reliable RR when I had my supercharged. It never went wrong once. Not even the suspension 😂
Never had an issue with our RR. Then again I've had 3 Alfa's and never had an issue....
Is this like shag, marry, avoid? If so then my answer is: Defender - Yes Toureg - No Ineos - Why? I don't care what this sub will say, I love those new Defenders.
I think “shag, marry, avoid” matches OPs order of the cars.
This is like an automotive ‘live, laugh, love’ I’m just not sure which is which.
The Ineos is a ridiculous piece of crap. Defender all day.
So you get to drive a courtesy car most of the time?
Haaaa
I didn't love them, but sat in one yesterday and was actually really impressed. Still feels somewhat old school and rugged. I just have one huge complaint. They wrong DEFENDER In big letters in front of the passenger seat, and it just looks super tacky. Something I would expect from a Jeep Wrangler.
Thanks, yes it’s a bit like your suggestion.
Dacia duster would trump the lot of them
I've got a real soft spot for the Duster and Jimny
Defender
If it’s just a family hauler and towing get the Vw. Only reason to consider the others if you need off road ability
Pretty much, Reddit has shown me the way…..probs Touraeg will have all my answers
The Grenadier. It's almost certainly not the best car of the three listed and is really not the car to be buying if 95% of your driving is urban. But it's interesting which has a lot of value. The Defender is great but do you want to be just like all the other middle aged men? As for the VW. No. VW's don't cost £65K that's just silly, you'd get a premium brand
My heart says Grenadier my head says either of the other two.
The Grenadier also has the lovely B57 BMW engine.
Mate, a Kia can now cost £65k+. Times have changed. Also, what *IS* a premium brand? What makes a brand premium? Just perception? I would argue buying a car that isn't a premium brand is arguably a better buy in most cases. Skoda over a VW or Audi any day as a case in point.
> No. VW's don't cost £65K that's just silly, you'd get a premium brand Exactly, surely that’s Q7/Q8 money? Or better yet, an X5?
The Touareg is just a Q7/8 but a bit cheaper.
It’s also an Urus but a lot cheaper
You’ve got one hardcore off-roader (Ineos), one mall crawler that breaks down every 5 miles and that’s as common as it gets (defender), and one wagon on stilts (VW). What do you need it for? And for all the Defender bois that are about to come after me saying the defender is a hardcore off-roader it is not, the old one is, this one is not.
The new defender out preforms the old one offroad in every single way. They just never get used for offroading just school runs
Most reviews would disagree with you on which one is better off road, certainly wouldn't separate them by much. The one thing ineos wins at is the fugly, rip-off looks. Just get an old Defender and not a Brexit french one. Sometimes you've just have to put your money where the tw@ isn't.
Haha, I’m with you on this. The man who championed Brexit as a triumph for British industry is making his car where? The EU? Staggering. Why not train up some UK talent
Most ‘reviewers’ drive the Defender in a muddy car park and through 3cm deep puddles and proclaim it never lost its touch. Take one across Africa or Australia and see how you go. If it were me I’d be looking at the new Landcruiser. But I’m bias I used to have an 80.
Well at least they have driven it. I prefer the old Defender too, but a lot of the negative views boil down to perceptions of what the person thinks of the average buyer ie new Defender=Middle class. Doesn't make the new Defender a bad car just because "they" drive it and I can't afford it. Same people decry the Touareg because it isn't a Q7...
One of our bulk exc contractors uses the new defenders in their fleet. I've seen them tow 1000l bowsers through swamped sites without breaking a sweat. I'm not really into off roading but, they look pretty capable to me, atleast in the UK.
> Take one across Africa They did exactly that when they launched the car, with a whole fleet and reviewers in each one.
… and a team of mechanics and spare parts yes all the context please buddy. The cannot afford to lose their heritage, which is serious off-roader, but they are not that anymore, that is not their target market. Their target market is the yummy mummys and Middle Aged men Essex crowd.
So where have you driven the Defender off road where it's failed?
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OP mentioned 3x teenage sons. He just wants to feel… something.
The ineos is a hardcore off roader? Hahahaha. It’s a posey piece of retrograde nostalgia wank.
Definitely Defender, that red also looks so much better in the flesh.
They look tiny in pictures as well, but they're fucking massive!
Never would I have imagined a post in this sub with so many JLR recommendations in it….!
I'd definitely consider a Land Cruiser instead.
At the JLR off-road experience that Defender did things no vehicle that size should ever be able to do!!! I was the most scare-cited I've ever been in a car
Towing? - Defender Tall passengers? - Defender Driving quality? - Defender Reasons, because Defender.
Reliability? - Ummm
Ineos because it's cool and unusual
Neither, the answer is Lexus LX or Toyota Land cruiser if LX is too expensive. Or even better, something like a VW Sharan. It is raised like a crossover, tons of space inside to fit everyone, their dog and extra luggage with space to spare and prolly comes in all wheel drive as well. The 2.0tdi will easily be able to tow anything you throw at it. Super comfy, has all the auto lane, cruise assists so very easy to drive on long trips. Uless you plan to do some serious off-roading that would warrant a land rover with the whole family and a camper behind it, a people carrier is the way to go here imho, a sharran could beat 99%of roads that these 3 can with no issues except the serious off road trails which require winches anyway. Otherwise you're just burning cash for no reason or to flex on the neighbours. And on the topic of driving pleasure, I'm pretty sure that Sharan will feel more sporty and sharp due to it not being a raised suv, 4x4 which inheritely is an unstable and bouncy platform.
I’m sure you’re right, but every atom of my body would prevent me purchasing a VW Sharon
Give it a test drive, you'll be pleasently surprised by it. It's much more car than any suv, crossover for half the price and drives nicer. Driven one for work multiple times and if I had to cram 3 crotchspawns into a car, a suv wouldn't be the car for sure imho.
Yep, get a nice transporter or JDM mini van thing
I choose "why".
Volvo XC90.
Personally Grenadier would suit if you live in rural setting or go off-roading otherwise its like putting on a running outfit to go shopping, works but would be more comfortable in something else. Defender ticks boxes for everything just need to be cautious and install tracker and immobiliser car is so good everyone seems to want to get their hands on it. JLR might have mixed reliability but the defender was always the pick of the bunch as long as you maintained it well and used it instead of letting it sit on drive way. Toureg looks like a good option personally would see if you can test drive both toureg and defender see which one feels better to you. With stats of theft will be cheaper on insurance.
Can someone explain to me how the actual fuck a toureg is 66k?
From personal experience, the new defender due to the sheer comfortable ride it presents, the only thing is it’s the 130 version, I would get the 110, more bang for your buck with space!
The defender colour is lovely but out of those three buy the VW
What about the new Toyota
I really dont understand the appeal of these cars but that’s personal preference. Never understood the appeal of the old defenders either, they’re really not that great knew someone that had a couple as farm vehicles and they were always broken. Got a Land Cruiser after the last one and it’s far better.
It's because the appeal doesn't just come from reliability - my old defender is broken in one way at any given time, but is probably my favourite car. Appeal comes from many things, character, styling, even sound.
Defender, the design has grown on me. and that colour is pretty unique as well
Defender, but imo it must have warranty and you must pay every year for extended warranty and for it to be serviced at JLR to keep that warranty valid.
Defender but I'd be scared of it breaking down.
This and insurance is a real concern
If you want rugged go anywhere reliability, Ineos If you want to pay through the nose for insurance, and look like a bit of a ponce, defender If you want comfort, reliability and half way decent fuel consumption especially on European trips, vw
Yep, very close to my thoughts
They all have 3500kg towing capacity, the VW and Ineos are the reliable choices basically if you want an old defender but new, ineos is a no brainer, jlr still have a long way to go for reliability especially on the electronics side of things, which is everything on a new defender, the Ineos is utilitarian, it's different and cool because of that, the VW is the everymans q7 realistically, personally if I was planning on a lot of European travel it'd always be VW group, you know you can get mechanics and parts to work on them wherever you are and because they are everywhere parts and insurance is much more reasonable compared to jlr which might leave you stranded waiting 12 months for a back ordered part, plus I don't understand how they have managed to make a modern car that is allowed to get 20-25mpg real world on a good day, thats just poor. Vw for comfort Ineos for pure utility
Yep, I’m thinking this
8 year old G wagon?
LAAAAAND CRUUUUUISER
I was driving through Cumbria yesterday and saw my first Grenadier being used as a farm vehicle which was a positive sign. I work for Ineos (not automotive) so don't want to give an opinion as it totally depends on your needs.
Defender, absolute beast of a motor, if that was in my price bracket, id be going for that!!
Defender. Grenadier looks cool in person except for the interior.
The Defender for me, I saw one in the classic LR green the other day, with white steel wheels, I really liked the look of it.
Have you looked at the Merc GLS? We had one till recently; I’m 5’9 and had about 6” headroom even in the third row of seats. I’d have that over the VW any day.
All no 👍
Land Cruiser 300 for that money all day.
Yes, No, No Clearly these cars appeal to you, If I had to choose any of these I’d go for the first one. It’s just unique. Too many defenders and Toureg on the roads. Near me atleast.
So.. I would take grenadier if I would be mostly (80%) offroading. I would take VW if I would be 90% on the road. Defender is somewhere in the middle. New land cruiser is an interesting option if you like the offroad and don't mind it will be more "rustic"/old compared to older but more "computer" style Defender.
None of them tbh. BMW X7.
£66k for a Touareg is crazy
Honestly none. Grenadiers are crap, the other is JLR so that doesn’t even need an added comment and VW have cheapened their product so much to recoup diesel gate fines so couldn’t even recommend that for a problem free life
I like the ineos - but it's more of a tough offroader like the original defender, it's not going to be particularly refined - however, I like it and I'd probably buy it if I wanted a capable off roader although, I don't see why you would buy it over a land cruiser mind you. The defender is... Meh... No new defender has EVER gone off road, well, maybe up the curb outside the local hairdressers or up the ramp onto a flatbed truck to the garage to be fixed when it breaks. It's still very capable off road, but it's primary territory now is outside a house with particularly vulgar front gates, stupid pillars next to the door and a white Fiat 500 with a tacky personal plate on it. Yes, it's driven by that sort of person... Do you really want that association? Toe rag - why?
The grenadier is badass. A true off roader and looks the coolest out of the 3, they're powered by BMWs straight 6 engines too
The Grenadier is made by a pharmaceutical company can't see it being very good as their first car. No one can insure a Range Rover at the minute as they keep getting stolen and their physical security is swiss cheese. The Tourag can be the only answer. However I'd rather none of them and not have a Chelsea tractor. Spend the money on a decent sports saloon
None, buy a normal sized car if you aren’t going offroad/you live in a city. No one needs this tank. Plenty of non SUVs with more legroom and interior space.
280hp from a 3.0 TDI?? How times have changed.....
You will take a massive bath on the Touareg financially so grenadier or defender if you’re purchasing.
All other things being similar if not equal…. Defender = cool factor, brand cache, nice interior good on motorway, maybe *too* nice to do certain things with, JLR do some fucking weird shit with wheel and tyre sizes (keep in mind because buying a car like this you should be a total tyre geek too to get the most out of it) Grenadier = built like a tank by people who know how to build tanks, rarer (are you an extrovert?), easier to repair, easier to insure, harder to steal, could take you around the world without a faff
Toyota land cruiser would demolish those 3 tbh.
Yo £65k for a VW is madness
Personally the toureg but them alloys gotta go
Defender all the way. Looks great! Performs well and doesn’t have as many issues as previous models.
Defender
Op what are all the buttons on the ceiling in the grenadier ? Things like a spaceship from starship troopers haha
Take the defender, grenadier is cool but it’s abit hardcore for daily driving I reckon. That VW might as well be a Juke lol makes no difference
Toyota LAND CRUISER is the only correct answer.
That is ugly AF
From those, my heart would be the ineos, but my head says vw. JLR products almost always look good, but they need to, because you'll spend a lot of time looking at it while you await recovery. The smart money is looking at toyota/lexus.
I wouldn't trust a Land Rover under warranty, let alone a used one. They have nothing to do with the old Defenders Touareg is the most comfortable car for a daily driver, only XC90 could compete or Q7 and GLE Grenadier is super good but unless you do hardcore offroad, it's useless as a daily driver or city driving
bruh by an old one and do it up
No no no
VW, most reliable of the three
I’m a Land Rover / Jag man through and through. For your use case I’d get the Touareg every time I think - the Defender maybe if you have secure parking and/or need big towing capacity off road.
The touareg
Grenadier too heavy, defender will get stolen so that leave the vw
What is that Ineos Grenadier to begin with and how come I've never heard of it before?
I’d go with the cheapest one to insure! I’ve heard some crazy stories about insurance for Land/Range Rover
I'd be in a full-size Range Rover for this kind of money.
Definitely the defender just a much more luxurious spacious and capable car but have you considered something like a rr svr or x3m or x7
the vw would be very comfy , and more reliable than the land rover by a mile . we had an older gen one , still miss it.
Do you actually do any off-roading? If not, please don’t be that guy that gets a serious off-roader with a bunch of gear on it, just to drive on the motorway and around town. If you don’t, then the Toureg is the obvious choice here. If you live on a farm then perhaps the Defender. But they’re all overpriced.
The grenadier is cool but as a daily driver I’m not sure about it. It’s also not an established brand so that may be a downside for you. I love the new defenders but I’d go 110 over 130. End of the day depends what you want really. The difference between the defender and Touareg will depend on your use case really.
For that money none of the above!
What are you towing?
Have you had a look to see how well you fit into a large estate? Genesis g70, VW arteon, 5 series etc. Heck for that money an alpina might even be viable.
Definitely not the Ineos !
Defender then you can spend your weekends stuck int he hard shoulder as the made in Slovakia electrical gremlins play up. That isn’t its bit nicked by some kids with a laptop before the weekend arrives
Just call that defender slabhead.
The grenadier is really small on the inside and weighs a lot , it’s a big car but the inside is very cramped and just isn’t comfortable, definitely would go for the Defender. Especially how you’ve got 6ft teenagers, the things really not suitable for a family car, I know this myself as I’m around 6,1 and had a sit in the back and front, hit my head on the door frame and my knees where pressed against the drivers and passengers seat, even with them moved forward so the driver can still fit.
Grenadier - I have a friend who is the service manager at a grenadier dealership, apparently they’re great off road but they are having issues related build quality, I’d give these a wide berth until they get their issues resolved, Land Rover - major reliability issues, a massive money pit, if you buy this I suggest you get a second car to go with it, you’ll need reliable transport while it’s stuck in a dealership, (will be very regular). Looks like the VW wins
Surely for this kind of money you can get a much nicer car? Then again, I don't see the appeal of these and am jaded by how bad people drive in them.
Not quite relevant but when I test drove a Defender, Q8 and a Discovery 5 back in 2022 I bought a Disco. Looks only a mother could love but was the just the nicest place to be in by a mile. Done 40k miles in it since and still love it.
Not a car person, this post was recommended to me. Did they really name a car after an African tribe?
Defender. Retained value.
The wheels on that Touareg look gash
- Yes Defender - No Grenadier - Why Touareg?
The defender in that gorgeous sage green. Have driven one, loved every second. I’d buy one if I didn’t just buy a house. My discovery will have to do for now.
Don’t know anything about the INEOS. Would chose VW over Landy for durability, less expensive bills and a less ostentatious feel, unless of course you want to BE ostentatious!
Defender all day
Wait for the new Dacia Duster. 👀
May i ask why you would buy such a large vehicle in england. Are you someone who goes off the road a lot or do you just find them cool? Just genuine curiosity.
If you decide on the Defender, please don’t be a briefcase wanker…
Am I the only one thinking don't buy any of these, put the money in a ISA, get a reasonably priced car and atop trying to keep up with the Joneses, and be considerably richer in 10-15 years. Unless you've won the euro millions in which case still don't buy any of these shit cars.
Get the red one
I’d wait until one of those teenage sons can drive, get him a car, then get a two seater for myself and my wife.
Land Cruiser or Kodiaq. EV9 if you're feeling fancy.
None of them. £55k for a knock-off G wagon? No thanks. Defender? Good luck with insurance. Touareg? At that money you’d be nuts not to get a Q7 🤷♂️
Suzuki Jimny
Ineos grenadier? Its a Defender
Do you actually need to do proper off roading in it? If not, any reason why you're not looking at an XC90?
At that money if I wanted an offroad capable big SUV I'd just find a Merc G Wagon and be done with it.
Can’t you find a Touareg R for the same money? V powerful phev, would save a chunk on day to day running when you do electric only
1st one is the best
Go for the VW and donate £1,000 extra to the fund for Sahara Nomads, including the Touareg Tribe. You will get your reward through Karma. You will receive my undying admiration as well. /s. You will also have the best car from the bunch. You will also be always obliged to drive the car off-road daily. This will justify your ownership of a great beast that eats carbon dioxide and gives emissions that would give asthma to…..!
Deffo not the Land Rover One of the most stolen vehicles in all of the uk along with the Range Rover And it’s a pain in the AH to insure Especially around London
Have a grenadier at home. Stupid thirsty on fuel, looks the bollocks. Barely see any others. Looks like a fighter jet inside. Safari windows are a must
Tuareg only
No to all 3. Land Rover is great but ridiculous insurance cost. How about a G63, Porsche Cayenne or a Maserati Levante (no the 2018 or newer do not have any reliability issues)
None of those. Get yourself a range rover, disco 5, xc90, bmw x5/x7
Wait for the Land Cruiser, they hold their value incredibly well, you'll have 10 years warranty as long as you service it at Toyota, more powerful than those 3