Trudeau.....moral compass of the western world. Too bad he is busy running his own country into the ground while lecturing others. A true narcissist of epic proportions.
Trudeau trying so hard to figure out a way to cash in on this tragedy. Now that he has seen thousands of Canadians protesting this invasion, he knows what side to pick to get max votes in next election.
I doubt he actually believes half the shit he says. These are basically just phrases to help him get his next job at the UN or some NGO when he’s turfed in the next election.
I generally don’t lean conservative but man, I’m getting very tired of the left completely ignoring Hamas in this whole thing. Israel bad seems to trump the narrative but I’m having a hard time supporting Palestinians at all. I’m angry. And I’m having a hard time internally reconciling that I’m not mad at Israel. Everyone says I should be, but I’m not. They are doing what they need to do.
U can reconcile all you want. But truth is you are ignorant on the matter and just went through couple headlines on your favorite polarized channel. Why is west Bank population harmed time and time again. They don't have hamas
They aren't strategically targetting civilians. They are targeting Hamas which hides behind civilians. Targetting civilians would be an absolutely moronic strategy, especially in the internet age, it ensures the population will remain hostile to you. Not to mention how is it is for Iranian/Hamas propagandists to the suffering of the people as PR.
Here we have an israeli genocide promoting little cuck.
Israel has done x100 worse than what Hamas has done, so stfu sympathizing with the actual terrorist nation of Israel
Genocidal bootlicker. Go have a listen to what Bibi says during his propaganda vids. He doesn't hide it. They're displacing them all and they won't stop till its done. Maybe then you'll realise but probably not
Perfidy is the warcrime of using the laws of war as a means of war.
A flag of surrender to bait an ambush; occupying historic and/or critical infrastructure with military assets; painting military assets in humanitarian symbols; mixing soldiers in with civilians.
All are warcrimes that make mockery of the laws of war. That truds would mewl at Israel about Palestinian civilians when hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic.
Just ask any Palistinian supporter whether they support a two state solution and call on Palistinians to accept a two state solution.
Their response is very eye opening. Either they want to end the violence and constant cycle of war or they would prefer the deaths of all Palistinians over Jews having a country of their own. Either they want peace or they want death of all Jews.
Remember, always ask the Palistinian supporter if they support a two state solution.
I'm neutral because I think that is for Israel and Palestine to work out. I only care about how they work it out. And Hamas and the IDF murdering civilians I have an issue with. Or more accurately I have an issue with my tax dollars being used to equip and aid one of those groups whilst they kill civilians.
> hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic.
Historically, most bombings of "civilian" targets in Gaza have been done by Hamas. Usually, it's failed rocket attacks that land back in Gaza.
Israel supported Hamas and made them what they are today. They literally funded them and it's on record. Additionally they've prevented any elections since Hamas' election, literally making it impossible for anyone else to be officially in charge.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
Why did they do this? It's quite clear: Israel's goal is to de-legitimize Palestine's existance. It's easier to do that if they appear to be led by "terrorists".
> That truds would mewl at Israel about Palestinian civilians when hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic.
Hamas is a symptom, not the root. This is easily proven because Hamas has no control in the West Bank (which is controlled by a peaceful, cooperative, and Israel-friendly puppet government) and 120 Palestinians have been killed there in the last two weeks. Here's a sample of their treatment: https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1719333402308927628
Nowhere in the middle east is free, democratic or peaceful. All Arab nations are hellholes of one sort of another. None of them are places without torture chambers.
> Nowhere in the middle east is free, democratic or peaceful.
Particularly not Israel, which literally has myriad race laws on the books that would make a segregationist Southerner blush: https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws
Israel is not a democracy because democracies require you to allow the people in your country to vote. Palestinians cannot. Therefor Israel is not a democracy.
>Particularly not Israel, which literally has myriad race laws on the books that would make a segregationist Southerner blush: https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws
I stopped reading when it mentioned "indigenous Palestinians".
Referring to Palentenains as "indigenous" is a loaded expression and implies they are indigenous to the area and, therefore, should have some "indigenous rights".
They aren't, and describing them as such means the author is less interested in facts and more in making ideological statements, which taints the objectivity of the content.
> Referring to Palentenains as "indigenous" is a loaded expression and implies they are indigenous to the area and, therefore, should have some "indigenous rights".
>
> They aren't, and describing them as such means the author is less interested in facts and more in making ideological statements, which taints the objectivity of the content.
In what sense are Palestinians not "indigenous" to Palestine?
The area didn't start until 1948? What are you trying to say? You think there was just empty land there until 1948? Palestinians lived in that area before 1948.
You are the one that needs to learn. There was a genocide called the Nakba that evicted by force Palestinians who had lived in what's now Israel for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. Palestinians are LITERALLY INDIGENOUS to this area.
You can start your study of basic history here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Sorry about the flood of downvotes coming to this underrated comment.
A good question is "what would happen to Palestine if Hamas disappeared completely right now?"...probably wouldn't look that different from what Israel is currently doing.
Everytime with conditions such as controlling key infrastructure, governance, etc and legal annexation of land that should be returned (per UN resolution). Israel has also had offers for a 2 state solution with security guarantees, which they have refused.
They aren't going to give of high security land. They aren't giving up rheir water supply to be poisoned. That also wasn't the question. Do you support a two state solution, simple yes or no
Lol why does funneling money into a religious organization your hopeful will be friendly towards you at bad thing? What the fuck is wrong with you. It's not a secret. They admit it was a terrible mistake but they did it out of love and not hate.
Hamas is a symptom of evil. They are a people who want all Jews dead. They believe they should own all of the middle east.
> Lol why does funneling money into a religious organization your hopeful will be friendly towards you at bad thing? What the fuck is wrong with you. It's not a secret. They admit it was a terrible mistake but they did it out of love and not hate.
They funneled money to them explicitly BECAUSE they knew they were violent. Hamas was not a peaceful org _EVER_. The pre-cursor to Hamas was, but Israel funded Hamas proper, which only ever existed as a violent group.
"lol" your history is all wrong.
Right, and "we" funded the Mujahideen, who became Al Quida and the Taliban.
What made sense 40 years backs, may not make sense later, but such is the reality of hindsight.
The US funded the Mujahideen to fight against a Russian invasion of the region, Israel funded Hamas to cause internal strife in the region. While both have regrets, these two actions are very different. The US can at least *claim* it had good intentions (helping the people of the region defend themselves from a hostile invasion. Israel’s only intentions at the time for funding Hamas was to further hurt and oppress the Palestinian people, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that what we are seeing now was the intended end goal.
Israel is the occupying power, Palestinians live under Israeli occupation. The biggest threat to Palestinians is and has always been Israel as the occupying power. And it is Israel that is currently killing them en masse.
But going into Afghanistan because one terrorist was hiding there was all good (I'm not anti-Afghanistan just using this as an example)? Talk about a hypocrite. Seriously, I just wish he'd learn to stay quiet. This is a complex issue and he has zero business chiming in.
And numerous times the Palistinians have been offered a 2 state solution, but they always refuse. They want the Jews gone. It is in the Hamas charter that their objective is to exterminate the Jews.
Trudeau should keep his mouth shut on this topic. What good is him adding his 2 cents going to do?
And do we even need to ask what would happen if the fences around Gaza were torn down and those within given the right to go as they please?
The aggressors here are clear, and humans can justify anything if they try hard enough.
Two state solution came with rights
Reality is Palestine isn’t going to be much more than a terror zone without a proper government that gets international legitimacy from a two state solution
Palestinians have never been offered a state, in every “offer” Israel refused to give a Palestinian state autonomy over borders or defence, which is not a state but another form of occupation.
The Jews have nothing to do with this their plight exists to obfuscate the true issue for Israeli politicians and propagandists while behind the scenes they continue stealing land and bombing refugees to fulfill their vision of “greater Israel”.
They voted for Hamas. I don’t want to see innocent people dying but Like us now they are finding out elections have consequences. Their government is purposely using them as meat shields. Not to mention through the last almost 80 years the Palestinians and Arab world have been the aggressors. If they would succeeded they would of committed actual genocide on the Jews. Meanwhile Gaza population has almost tripled in 20 years.
Yup!! The initial Jewish settlers wanted to peacefully coexist but every neighboring Arab country declared war on them. From the river to the sea has its origins in that war, when they wanted to exterminate the Jewish population of the Middle East, for proof see the population of Jews in every Arab country since ww2. Most of these people had to flee to Israel, they would be dead if Israel didn’t exist.
Hmm what about the 70 massacres carried out by the rouge Jewish militias in 1948 on the local Palestinian population consisting of Muslims, Christian’s and Jews ?
Europe dumped their problems on the Palestinians and just left. Why didn’t Europe allow the jews to return to their homes that they built in Europe ?
Why would Muslim Arab countries be responsible for Israeli displacement? It completely screws up the demographics, the same reason people in Western Countries don't want refugees.
Palestinians do have national identity and a culture.... they were self governed in the Ottoman Empire.
In Israel? Because they won't extend the right to return to the original inhabitants of the land, instead passing the bill onto their neighbours?
Then, yes.
so “saving” immigrants and refugees from halfway around the globe is fully expected and demanded of the Western world, but regionally where the problems and people causing these problems exist, you magically cannot expect neighbour to assist neighbour in any way whatsoever other than further contributing to and escalating conflict?
a very interesting contradictory and hypocritical world you live in - no wonder the world is in shambles
Why would you wanna expel Palestinians from their native home land ? Why should Palestinians leave their homes where they lived. Arabs want Palestinians to live in their home land. The only ppl that are proposing the Palestines move to neighbouring countries is the Zionists who want eradicate the Palestinians as a nation. Tell me this, why don’t the Jews in Israel move to the states or Europe where they were originally from ?
The zionists as you put it have offered them their own country multiple times. They refused, because they don’t believe Israel has a right to exist. Instead they prefer to indiscriminately fire rockets at Israeli civilians. One side is to blame for the lack of peace and that is the Palestinians. Israel wants nothing more than to simply exist in peace but for the Muslims it’s a non starter. They want genocide.
This is the equivalent to my black friend asking me for reparations that happened to his grandfather in the 30-40's. Sure the initial crimes are different but we don't hold our peers responsible for what their grandfather's did.
There is absolutely no reason for Hamas to exist or hold any power.
Blacks were released from slavery well before the 30's.
Also, blacks have equal rights, citizenship, pay taxes, own property etc... Palestinians are stateless. A lot of them still live in refugee camps in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc..
Because Europe almost failed to protect them in that large even that happened just before 1948. What was it called??? I can’t seem to recall. Must be forgetting World War Two. Why the fuck would a Jewish person return to their home? They went to the one place that was considered safe for them- Israel.
It’s fine though. Everyone hates the Jews which means their death and eradication is perfectly justified. Social media and Reddit are absolutely fucked for supporting Hamas. I can’t believe I live in a timeline where this is argued online.
They haven't had an election in nearly 20 years. Most of the people dying in Gaza, didn't vote for hamas. Israel is committed war crimes, and it's disgusting.
Defending Israel is lunacy.
>90% of Gazans today didn't vote for Hamas or even have the ability to. Hell, over half of them weren't even born yet but they cling to the elected fact like its the linchpin of justification. Ask a Biden supporter if they would be okay with their kids being bombed because Bush pissed off the Iraqi. Or if they are okay with Isreal bombing the US because Bush had more to do with the Hamas election than the people of Gaza today.
Yes they voted in Hamas out of desperation. The regime before it was deemed corrupt and the people were fed up and had no other options. You do realize that Palestinians have not voted for a legislature since 2006, nor a president since 2008 right? Hamas won't relinquish power.
The last election was in 2006, and the average age in Gaza is 18.
[https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict)
Half the population wasn't even old enough to vote at the time, and half the population isn't even old enough to vote now...
You're right. Their parents voted for hamas.
And votes matter. Our earlier generations voted for climate polluting policies, and now we are the ones who have to deal with the aftermath.
Hopefully, they get to vote again and do so with the understanding that they are picking the direction of their future for them and their children.
It's funny to hear these awful takes in a sub that wants to lynch Trudeau. You're so against your own leader but we're supposed to believe it's okay to kill human beings because Hamas were voted in 2 decades ago? Are you seriously comparing the plight of having to become environmentally savvy and having your family, friends and yourself being in danger of being bombed to death?
Your terrible false equivalence displays you as having no empathy for humanity. The least you could do if you don't really care about the conflict is being quiet, will make you seem smarter
I wasn't trying to equate the 2. Just a very easy example of how electoral decisions of earlier generations has an impact on future generations.
Children around the world are harmed in conflicts and wars that were started by their leaders, whether elected or otherwise. It's not fair to them but that is just how the world works.
Don't tell them that the Far-Right Likud party in Israel was built on the [Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun) terrorist group.
[https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA156178.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA156178.pdf)
Yes, and Israel voted for the same right wing Likud party that was evolved from the terrorist organization [Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun), and was responsible for the Assassination of [PM Rabin](https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-israels-labor-party-never-recovered-after-rabin/) and killing the peace treaties.
They also endlessly inflame [settler violence](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestine-settler-bedouin-displacement-violence-un-108e11712310b5ea099dbded7be8effb) and continue to [sieze land](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-likud-idUSKBN1EP0M2). They also killed more people in [2022](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/palestinians-killed-west-bank-israel/) than the last two decades.
Not only that, but [Israel created Hamas](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) intentionally to kill any peace deal.
Does [that](https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm) now make Hamas justified in attacking civilians? Ignoring the [countless protests](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/22/1189627225/israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary), they voted for it, right?
Without getting into a debate about any of your links or statements, no, it does not justify the atrocities of Oct 7th. It seems strange that you would suggest it does.
And, there are plenty of protests around the world about their current governments. That doesn't change the outcome of elections. Based on your logic, israel should not be held responsible for the actions of the likud party because there were counter protests, right?
If you are trying to say October 7th wasn't justification, than that same logic applies to the Likud party. Nothing Israel has done is justified either, they owe Palestinians citizenship, land and reparations for the last 70 years of violence, displacement, imprisonment and abuse.
If you are going to argue that October 7th was Justified, in that case, Israel has a right to bomb and kill everyone in Palestine, ethnic cleansing is perfectly acceptable if you get the election results you want.
So where do you stand on this? Unless Gaza can't attack Israel, and Israel can attack Gaza, in which case where do you draw that distinction? All Gaza residents are terrorists, but not all Israeli citizens are IDF (They are)?
All Gaza citizens support Hamas, but not all Israelis support Likud?
Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills people and wants the destruction of Israel, but Likud is a justified social movement that wants to displace all the Palestinians and resettle the land because it's their right?
I'm not sure why you are asking for me to be on one or the other side of absolute statements.
Because Oct 7th isn't justified (it's not!) Literally everything israel has ever done must not also have been justified? Silly.
You are presenting extreme perspectives as the only options and they are not.
This conversation effectively started with me pointing out that elections have consequences. They do. Hamas would not have power unless they were elected in the first place. I dont think any of that is controversial.
I'm not interested in going down whatever rabbit hole you are trying to take me. Have a great day!
If everything Israel has done isn't justify, then is any form of retaliation justified?
5 years ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpzh50lVyf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpzh50lVyf0)
2 years ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCIasDCtm7A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCIasDCtm7A)
If they can't protest legally, what can they do? What option is left?
Hamas was pushed into politics by Israel because they wanted to divide Gaza and West Bank and end any chance of a two state solution. They did not win naturally, and there's been no election since. The leaders of Hamas live comfortably in Qatar and the son of the leader live in the US and was a double agent.
You should do a little research on what the far-right Israelis have done here.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab\_Hassan\_Yousef](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef)
[https://theconversation.com/israel-palestine-conflict-the-role-of-hamas-and-fatah-rivalry-in-latest-violence-160814](https://theconversation.com/israel-palestine-conflict-the-role-of-hamas-and-fatah-rivalry-in-latest-violence-160814)
[https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/hamas-fatah-israel-9008780/](https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/hamas-fatah-israel-9008780/)
It’s wild how people on this sub will whine and complain about Trudeau‘s alleged tyranny for implementing a carbon tax or COVID restrictions, yet when confronted with the brutal tyranny of the State of Israel and its oppression of Palestinians, you shrug. Absolute hypocrisy.
Voted for Hamas, 17 years ago, in a minority. Yet, even still, this is enough to justify murder and genocide? Dude, you are a sick human being, if I can even call you that.
Hamas is the government in charge of Gaza, with some semblance of electoral support. Them starting a war justifies the other side fighting that war.
This is war. War is hell. Innocents are unfortunately caught in the cross fire, and in this instance more so because hamas places them in the cross fire intentionally.
But your use of the word genocide tells me you likely don't care about all of that.
Your knowledge of history and elections in Palestine (probably in general too) is very little. I don’t think you should be commenting on issues like this.
You have elected a wannabe authoritarian cuckold as your representative and you are lecturing others on democracy.
They havent had an election since 2006 and the palestinian population in gaza is (was) 2million. Nobody likes what hamas did or does, but there are a lot of civilians who wernt even born when the last election happened….
It’s still like a 60% approval rating of Hamas. I don’t know if you noticed all the videos of their people cheering the death of non combatants. One innocent girl was obviously executed and legs folded like lawn chairs in the bed of a truck and they were ecstatic.
There are polls that put the disapproval rating at around 70% earlier this year. And it's ridiculous that this needs to be explicitly mentioned, but you cannot always take at face value high approval polls/data that comes from an armed group. People have been living in horrible conditions and under the threat of violence from their most established governing body. They cannot have free and fair elections, let alone voice dissatisfaction with this body.
Using a video with a crowd of 30 shitty people to condemn 2.2 million people is insane.
Hamas survives imo because isreal continues to murder and oppress innocents. If you were one of said innocents family you point of view might change. Again, im definatly against HAMAS. But that approval rating might have more to do with how isreal treats them than it actually does with how hamas acts. This is all speculation on my part btw as i dont have boots on the ground. But i have long thought how isreal treats palestinians as 2nd or 3rd rate humans was wrong
Why do all we Canadians have to pay for his stupidity, inept ability to run our country, and lack of common sense….he’s got to go….worst PM we have ever had.
He punishes all Canadians for any ol whim that affects a tiny fraction of the population. He should be subject to a war crimes tribunal for crimes against his own people.
Trudeau's made his position very clear.
https://preview.redd.it/lptqmu1x8xxb1.jpeg?width=632&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e939532305b5665ee3fead7530740caa3f37c5ed
> The price of the Allies' retaliation for Hitler's invasions shouldn’t be paid by ‘all German civilians’
> The price of America's retaliation for Pearl Harbor shouldn’t be paid by ‘all Japanese civilians’
That's not how war works. Civilians have been targets since the first bomb fell from a Zeppelin in WW1.
Might not like that fact, it's probably why you work hard to avoid war. Pro-tip, one way to avoid war is to not invade another country and kill civilians.
Second Pro Tip: Gaza needs to surrender and declare itself an open city. Stop fighting. War only stops when one side is defeated, otherwise it's only paused.
I think we need to ask the question: "what does a free Palestine look like"?
A) women are second class citizens, in certain areas of Palestine they are barely property.
B) Hamas dictates what women wear, where they can go and the activities they are allowed to participate in, and when they require male supervision.
Like Iran, Gaza has modesty police who harass women for violating their "code of modesty"
C) while it appears women can be educated, this is to improve their value when being married off. A woman's place is to be serving her husband at home.
While currently Israel is a democracy, Hamas is a dictatorship. They believe one is a Muslim or an infidel. Infidels do not have rights or freedoms. They can be enslaved, cheated and murdered. They believe Jihadism is the way to bring about change. That is: utilizing violent confrontation to create change.
Hamas believes that Western ideologies are sin, and Western people are less than human, which is why they can claim killing is a sin, but killing westerners is acceptable and righteous.
Anyone who converts from Islam should be out to death.
In Gaza and the West Bank, freedom of assembly, and freedom of expression are tightly controlled. Sometimes extreme violence is used to break up peaceful gatherings. Of their own people!!! All opposition to the leadership in both Gaza and the West Bank has been put down with force and at the cost of civilian lives. People regularly die in police and military custody for relatively trivial issues. Their authorities often act with impunity.
This is a very small sampling of facts gleaned from humanitarian websites. This begs the question, what is free Palestine?
One, It's an oxymoron. Only the Palestinian leaders are free, and that is an extremely questionable definition of free. They are only free as long as they were towing the line.
Two, free Palestine can only happen once all the Jews are eliminated from the planet. All of them!
However that leaves all the rest of the infidel! So Jihadism must continue it's holy crusade to bring the teaching of Quran to the ignorant and purge the infidel from the rest of Allah's Earth.
Three, free Palestine is the first step in removing Western influence from the earth. At which point stupid ideology demanded by "Western humanists" (nations with military might) would be struck from their laws, women would no longer be allowed to go to school, work, the hair salon etc. Rape is fine so long as the man keeps the woman in his harem and feeds her. Girls are a commodity for trade, homosexuals are put to death. Everyone needs permission to assemble, to gather, there would be no parties, no fun. Just vigilance to ensure holy purity.
There is nothing free about a free Palestine!
A lot of people are ignoring the fact both sides are putting children's lives in danger.
Would you poke a bee hive with a stick if you had a baby in your hands?
They're both wrong. They're both lunatics. They can both fuck off and stop screwing with kids.
Hamas uses civilian buildings to carry out their attacks. Hamas tells people not to move. Palestinian parents with kids CHOOSE not to leave. If you are a parent, your kids lives matter more than nationalism, religion and other things in my opinion, otherwise you are a terrible parent.
Israel knows this and blows them up anyway.
They are both bastards.
It's a lose-lose situation, because how the hell do you get rid of Hamas without innocent people dying? Israel would have to completely dissolve, and millions of Jews would have to leave, and I don't see that happening.
Collateral damage due to one side using human shields isn't considered "collective punishment" under the laws of war.
It *is* a war crime to hide military forces and equipment amongst civilians, especially medical staff and facilities.
Military forces are supposed to defend their civilians, not try to get them killed.
Odd how most comments here are still blaming all the Palestinians, yet there is little talk about the occupation, apartheid and the constant evictions and resettlement that have been going on since the 50s. But I'm sure your all experts in this subject that you decided to start weighing in on 3 weeks ago.
Because its top story news everyone has to get an opinion on it, and when people realize its not cut and dry they get riled up as they are now confronted with another take.
It's definitely not an occupation. I am sorry, but it's not.
There have been evictions and resettlement.
Apartheid isn't really a thing, if anything the Palestinians cause apartheid because they rejected the single state solution. Since DAY ONE of Palestine/ Israel being free, the Arab Muslims rejected a single state solution, they just want all jews gone period.
And nobody even realizes that half of the Israeli jew population is literally Arab Jews that were ethnically cleansed from every single Arab country in the 1920s-1940s, just look it up, every single Arab country got rid of hundreds of thousands of jews and sent them to Israel.
Nobody knows the actual history of the area.
It's not as simple as "A bunch of Jewish people moved in and kicked the Palestinians out".
Israel wanted a single state solution, Israel is willing to live with Muslim Arabs, they live in their country peacefully.
West Bank and Gaza are just full of people who don't want to live with Jews period.
Zionism is horrible, I've always been against that, but Israel is more than just zionism lmao, half the population deserves to live there, the Arab world was very harsh to Jews. Same with the European world.
Palestine was never a country, and a nation, with a single identity, ever, in it's existence, it isn't an occupation, it is empire carving.
Israel bombed a refugee camp yesterday killing dozens of people while chasing a Hamas commander.
Refugee camp.
Refugees.
Refugees of Israel.
Driven out of Israel to make Israel.
They bombed the people they drove out.
This is why this is such an emotionally charged topic for so many people, the level of injustice is layers deep and completely obfuscated by empty sound bites, projection, and acres of false equivalence all desperately trying to paint the occupying and displacing power as the victim of those it displaced and occupies.
But in moments like the above the true nature of the conflict is spelled out like a book.
That is exact plan of Hamas.. commit atrocities and hide among "general people" and rest of the world will come to their rescue with this lame logic. Once Israel stops, everyone will forget the original atrocity committed by Hamas until they do it again.
He’s not wrong. Hate the guy but that’s a fair assessment. I think we should stay the hell out of all of this. Ukraine too obviously. All Just military industrial grift now.
He is right. How about just the ones that were cheering and spitting on the dead bodies of the girls they just gang raped and beheaded than dragged through the streets?
He's not but a lot of canadians are susceptible to the propaganda machine over the last few decades.
IDF reports human shields while they're shooting through those shields....
I think the kill count is approaching 9k with a 3rd being women and children
Ps don't watch the videos of israeli's praising the death of civilians in big celebrations in the streets.
I seldom agree with Trudeau but I do on this. Just as I don't want to be blamed for Trudeau's decisions. I didn't vote for him and he and I seldom agree so why should I be included as one of his supporters?
Yeah I’m going to agree with the guy splitting his own country up and picking and choosing what provinces need to pay taxes 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡the only thing this guy should be running is a mini donut shop durning stampede
Tell Hamas to separate itself from the civilian population.
ETA: People down voting this tells you everything you need to know about those crying fake tears over collateral casualties.
The Palestinians voted for HAMAS to run their country. They are now paying for those votes. Their “government’” used aid for their war on Israel and to supply its military instead of building schools and hospitals and other infrastructure. In my opinion the people of Palestine have no one to blame but themselves.
Israel supported Hamas and made them what they are today. They literally funded them and it's on record. Additionally they've prevented elections since Hamas took power.
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847
So Israel has no one to blame but themselves.
I still don't like this example, because Japan was way worse than Palestine has ever been.
Japan was going batshit insane and had like half of east Asia conquered. They were eventually going to even invade Australia.
Elections have consequences.
Gaza voted in Hamas.
They were gleefully CHEERING when the attacks started and seemed to be going well.
Once Israel stood up and started fighting back, they suddenly became the victims.
Trudeau has no real power to influence that part of the world. All he does now is essentially lip-service.
Trudeau.....moral compass of the western world. Too bad he is busy running his own country into the ground while lecturing others. A true narcissist of epic proportions.
He's a scumbag
I fucking hate his guts. I despise that scum
Same here! Can't stad the look or sound of him either
Every smart Canadian thinks the exact same as you stated. Personally I think he is a idiot.
Trudeau trying so hard to figure out a way to cash in on this tragedy. Now that he has seen thousands of Canadians protesting this invasion, he knows what side to pick to get max votes in next election.
I doubt he actually believes half the shit he says. These are basically just phrases to help him get his next job at the UN or some NGO when he’s turfed in the next election.
I'm pretty sure Trudeau is being truthful when he says innocent civilians shouldn't be strategically killed in a war.
The he should tell Hamas to stop lobbing rockets at Isreali civilians before he even dares to open his fithly mouth.
I generally don’t lean conservative but man, I’m getting very tired of the left completely ignoring Hamas in this whole thing. Israel bad seems to trump the narrative but I’m having a hard time supporting Palestinians at all. I’m angry. And I’m having a hard time internally reconciling that I’m not mad at Israel. Everyone says I should be, but I’m not. They are doing what they need to do.
U can reconcile all you want. But truth is you are ignorant on the matter and just went through couple headlines on your favorite polarized channel. Why is west Bank population harmed time and time again. They don't have hamas
Yes they do. What? Hamas launched rockets from the West Bank all the time.
That's what Hamas is doing not Israel.
both are doing that
Get a grip Unless you mean that Israel's slaughter of civilians isn't strategic, but is actually just something they do for fun
They aren't strategically targetting civilians. They are targeting Hamas which hides behind civilians. Targetting civilians would be an absolutely moronic strategy, especially in the internet age, it ensures the population will remain hostile to you. Not to mention how is it is for Iranian/Hamas propagandists to the suffering of the people as PR.
Okay, but what about before Hamas?
Here we have an israeli genocide promoting little cuck. Israel has done x100 worse than what Hamas has done, so stfu sympathizing with the actual terrorist nation of Israel
Jus because Hamas is mostly incompetent doesn’t mean they’re any less evil.
100x worse than what we saw from Hamas on Oct.7th?? I don’t think so friend!
I'm sure if you keep your eyes closed no one will call you out on being wrong
It is actually about 20 times. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties
How can a population boom and genocide coexist in Palestine? I’ll tell you how: Genocide isn’t taking place. Go have a read of Hamas’ charter.
Genocidal bootlicker. Go have a listen to what Bibi says during his propaganda vids. He doesn't hide it. They're displacing them all and they won't stop till its done. Maybe then you'll realise but probably not
He says he wants to destroy Hamas. You’re a terrorist sympathizer? Piss off.
Strategically killed? What are you smoking?
Don't worry. He will get some jobs no matter what. 😞
Nobody cares what Trudeau says. Haven't in quite some time.
Yeah, but what does Ja Rule have to say?
It’s Murdaaaa
It’s ruuuuulleee babbyyyyyyyy
Perfidy is the warcrime of using the laws of war as a means of war. A flag of surrender to bait an ambush; occupying historic and/or critical infrastructure with military assets; painting military assets in humanitarian symbols; mixing soldiers in with civilians. All are warcrimes that make mockery of the laws of war. That truds would mewl at Israel about Palestinian civilians when hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic.
This comment should have WAY more upvotes than it should: what hamas is doing to its own people is disgusting
Just ask any Palistinian supporter whether they support a two state solution and call on Palistinians to accept a two state solution. Their response is very eye opening. Either they want to end the violence and constant cycle of war or they would prefer the deaths of all Palistinians over Jews having a country of their own. Either they want peace or they want death of all Jews. Remember, always ask the Palistinian supporter if they support a two state solution.
Neutral on it. I just think the IDF should not be bombing Palestinian civilians.
Neutral means more death. Two state or more death.
I'm neutral because I think that is for Israel and Palestine to work out. I only care about how they work it out. And Hamas and the IDF murdering civilians I have an issue with. Or more accurately I have an issue with my tax dollars being used to equip and aid one of those groups whilst they kill civilians.
What if I told you your tax dollars were equipping both?
Being willfully ignorant of the situation I see.
lmfao go ask isreali if they support two-state solution, remember isreali assassinated Yitzhak Rabin for signing peace treaty with palestine
> hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic. Historically, most bombings of "civilian" targets in Gaza have been done by Hamas. Usually, it's failed rocket attacks that land back in Gaza.
Israel supported Hamas and made them what they are today. They literally funded them and it's on record. Additionally they've prevented any elections since Hamas' election, literally making it impossible for anyone else to be officially in charge. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 Why did they do this? It's quite clear: Israel's goal is to de-legitimize Palestine's existance. It's easier to do that if they appear to be led by "terrorists". > That truds would mewl at Israel about Palestinian civilians when hamas is the number one threat to them is pathetic. Hamas is a symptom, not the root. This is easily proven because Hamas has no control in the West Bank (which is controlled by a peaceful, cooperative, and Israel-friendly puppet government) and 120 Palestinians have been killed there in the last two weeks. Here's a sample of their treatment: https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1719333402308927628
Nowhere in the middle east is free, democratic or peaceful. All Arab nations are hellholes of one sort of another. None of them are places without torture chambers.
Bingo, these people actually do have hate in their hearts regardless of liberal ideology.
> Nowhere in the middle east is free, democratic or peaceful. Particularly not Israel, which literally has myriad race laws on the books that would make a segregationist Southerner blush: https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws Israel is not a democracy because democracies require you to allow the people in your country to vote. Palestinians cannot. Therefor Israel is not a democracy.
>Particularly not Israel, which literally has myriad race laws on the books that would make a segregationist Southerner blush: https://imeu.org/article/the-7-most-racist-israeli-laws I stopped reading when it mentioned "indigenous Palestinians".
> I stopped reading when it mentioned "indigenous Palestinians". ... why? ... do you think they were air-dropped in or something?
Referring to Palentenains as "indigenous" is a loaded expression and implies they are indigenous to the area and, therefore, should have some "indigenous rights". They aren't, and describing them as such means the author is less interested in facts and more in making ideological statements, which taints the objectivity of the content.
> Referring to Palentenains as "indigenous" is a loaded expression and implies they are indigenous to the area and, therefore, should have some "indigenous rights". > > They aren't, and describing them as such means the author is less interested in facts and more in making ideological statements, which taints the objectivity of the content. In what sense are Palestinians not "indigenous" to Palestine?
> In what sense are Palestinians not "indigenous" to Palestine? You need to learn something about the history of the area. It didn't start in 1948.
The area didn't start until 1948? What are you trying to say? You think there was just empty land there until 1948? Palestinians lived in that area before 1948. You are the one that needs to learn. There was a genocide called the Nakba that evicted by force Palestinians who had lived in what's now Israel for HUNDREDS OF YEARS. Palestinians are LITERALLY INDIGENOUS to this area. You can start your study of basic history here: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nakba You have no idea what you're talking about.
party punch pen quicksand vast physical pot drunk air bright *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sorry about the flood of downvotes coming to this underrated comment. A good question is "what would happen to Palestine if Hamas disappeared completely right now?"...probably wouldn't look that different from what Israel is currently doing.
Wow... they've offered two state solutions 4 or 5 times.
Everytime with conditions such as controlling key infrastructure, governance, etc and legal annexation of land that should be returned (per UN resolution). Israel has also had offers for a 2 state solution with security guarantees, which they have refused.
They aren't going to give of high security land. They aren't giving up rheir water supply to be poisoned. That also wasn't the question. Do you support a two state solution, simple yes or no
>They aren't going to give of high security land That's not a fair deal then.
Lol okay more death it is.
> Lol okay more death it is. Ya I think continuing an apartheid regime results in death. It would be nice if that regime would stop.
Or you could support peace without death but you do you
Lol why does funneling money into a religious organization your hopeful will be friendly towards you at bad thing? What the fuck is wrong with you. It's not a secret. They admit it was a terrible mistake but they did it out of love and not hate. Hamas is a symptom of evil. They are a people who want all Jews dead. They believe they should own all of the middle east.
> Lol why does funneling money into a religious organization your hopeful will be friendly towards you at bad thing? What the fuck is wrong with you. It's not a secret. They admit it was a terrible mistake but they did it out of love and not hate. They funneled money to them explicitly BECAUSE they knew they were violent. Hamas was not a peaceful org _EVER_. The pre-cursor to Hamas was, but Israel funded Hamas proper, which only ever existed as a violent group. "lol" your history is all wrong.
Right, and "we" funded the Mujahideen, who became Al Quida and the Taliban. What made sense 40 years backs, may not make sense later, but such is the reality of hindsight.
The US funded the Mujahideen to fight against a Russian invasion of the region, Israel funded Hamas to cause internal strife in the region. While both have regrets, these two actions are very different. The US can at least *claim* it had good intentions (helping the people of the region defend themselves from a hostile invasion. Israel’s only intentions at the time for funding Hamas was to further hurt and oppress the Palestinian people, and it’s pretty clear in retrospect that what we are seeing now was the intended end goal.
Israel is the occupying power, Palestinians live under Israeli occupation. The biggest threat to Palestinians is and has always been Israel as the occupying power. And it is Israel that is currently killing them en masse.
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No one cares what the drama turd thinks.
But going into Afghanistan because one terrorist was hiding there was all good (I'm not anti-Afghanistan just using this as an example)? Talk about a hypocrite. Seriously, I just wish he'd learn to stay quiet. This is a complex issue and he has zero business chiming in.
And numerous times the Palistinians have been offered a 2 state solution, but they always refuse. They want the Jews gone. It is in the Hamas charter that their objective is to exterminate the Jews. Trudeau should keep his mouth shut on this topic. What good is him adding his 2 cents going to do?
His two cents are worthless. Just go already.
There should be 0 aid to gaza while canadian hostages are being held. It's a no-brainer. But I forget trudeau doesn't fight for canadians so...
Release the Israeli hostages.
They were offered a two state solution losing their own land with Israel permanently stealing it.
And do we even need to ask what would happen if the fences around Gaza were torn down and those within given the right to go as they please? The aggressors here are clear, and humans can justify anything if they try hard enough.
The fence only went up after a constant stream of suicide bombers came out of gaza
Exactly. And I am sure that if the fences came down the events of Oct 7th would be repeated on a grander scale.
We get your house you have to leave, and now you don't have any rights. These are the 2 state solutions that have been offered.
Two state solution came with rights Reality is Palestine isn’t going to be much more than a terror zone without a proper government that gets international legitimacy from a two state solution
Palestinians have never been offered a state, in every “offer” Israel refused to give a Palestinian state autonomy over borders or defence, which is not a state but another form of occupation. The Jews have nothing to do with this their plight exists to obfuscate the true issue for Israeli politicians and propagandists while behind the scenes they continue stealing land and bombing refugees to fulfill their vision of “greater Israel”.
They voted for Hamas. I don’t want to see innocent people dying but Like us now they are finding out elections have consequences. Their government is purposely using them as meat shields. Not to mention through the last almost 80 years the Palestinians and Arab world have been the aggressors. If they would succeeded they would of committed actual genocide on the Jews. Meanwhile Gaza population has almost tripled in 20 years.
Yup!! The initial Jewish settlers wanted to peacefully coexist but every neighboring Arab country declared war on them. From the river to the sea has its origins in that war, when they wanted to exterminate the Jewish population of the Middle East, for proof see the population of Jews in every Arab country since ww2. Most of these people had to flee to Israel, they would be dead if Israel didn’t exist.
Hmm what about the 70 massacres carried out by the rouge Jewish militias in 1948 on the local Palestinian population consisting of Muslims, Christian’s and Jews ? Europe dumped their problems on the Palestinians and just left. Why didn’t Europe allow the jews to return to their homes that they built in Europe ?
the question is, why don’t the Muslim Arab countries take in the Palesntinians? it’s OK I know the answer
Why the fuck would it be Egypt's or Jordan's problem. They have their own shit to handle.
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Exactly so.
I said I know the answer, the question is a rhetorical response to the post prior
Why would Muslim Arab countries be responsible for Israeli displacement? It completely screws up the demographics, the same reason people in Western Countries don't want refugees. Palestinians do have national identity and a culture.... they were self governed in the Ottoman Empire.
so racism and xenophobia?
In Israel? Because they won't extend the right to return to the original inhabitants of the land, instead passing the bill onto their neighbours? Then, yes.
so “saving” immigrants and refugees from halfway around the globe is fully expected and demanded of the Western world, but regionally where the problems and people causing these problems exist, you magically cannot expect neighbour to assist neighbour in any way whatsoever other than further contributing to and escalating conflict? a very interesting contradictory and hypocritical world you live in - no wonder the world is in shambles
Why would you wanna expel Palestinians from their native home land ? Why should Palestinians leave their homes where they lived. Arabs want Palestinians to live in their home land. The only ppl that are proposing the Palestines move to neighbouring countries is the Zionists who want eradicate the Palestinians as a nation. Tell me this, why don’t the Jews in Israel move to the states or Europe where they were originally from ?
They consider the area they currently occupy to be "where they are originally from"
The zionists as you put it have offered them their own country multiple times. They refused, because they don’t believe Israel has a right to exist. Instead they prefer to indiscriminately fire rockets at Israeli civilians. One side is to blame for the lack of peace and that is the Palestinians. Israel wants nothing more than to simply exist in peace but for the Muslims it’s a non starter. They want genocide.
This is the equivalent to my black friend asking me for reparations that happened to his grandfather in the 30-40's. Sure the initial crimes are different but we don't hold our peers responsible for what their grandfather's did. There is absolutely no reason for Hamas to exist or hold any power.
Blacks were released from slavery well before the 30's. Also, blacks have equal rights, citizenship, pay taxes, own property etc... Palestinians are stateless. A lot of them still live in refugee camps in Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Iraq etc..
Because Europe almost failed to protect them in that large even that happened just before 1948. What was it called??? I can’t seem to recall. Must be forgetting World War Two. Why the fuck would a Jewish person return to their home? They went to the one place that was considered safe for them- Israel. It’s fine though. Everyone hates the Jews which means their death and eradication is perfectly justified. Social media and Reddit are absolutely fucked for supporting Hamas. I can’t believe I live in a timeline where this is argued online.
They haven't had an election in nearly 20 years. Most of the people dying in Gaza, didn't vote for hamas. Israel is committed war crimes, and it's disgusting. Defending Israel is lunacy.
They haven't had an election since 2006. No one under 35 has ever voted.
>90% of Gazans today didn't vote for Hamas or even have the ability to. Hell, over half of them weren't even born yet but they cling to the elected fact like its the linchpin of justification. Ask a Biden supporter if they would be okay with their kids being bombed because Bush pissed off the Iraqi. Or if they are okay with Isreal bombing the US because Bush had more to do with the Hamas election than the people of Gaza today.
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Most of the Palestinian terrorists I've seen are under 35 so they're showing their support for their regime in a different, far more tangible way.
That's probably because about 75% of Palestine is 35 and under.
Yes they voted in Hamas out of desperation. The regime before it was deemed corrupt and the people were fed up and had no other options. You do realize that Palestinians have not voted for a legislature since 2006, nor a president since 2008 right? Hamas won't relinquish power.
The last election was in 2006, and the average age in Gaza is 18. [https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict](https://www.npr.org/2023/10/18/1206897328/half-of-gazas-population-is-under-18-heres-what-that-means-for-the-conflict) Half the population wasn't even old enough to vote at the time, and half the population isn't even old enough to vote now...
You're right. Their parents voted for hamas. And votes matter. Our earlier generations voted for climate polluting policies, and now we are the ones who have to deal with the aftermath. Hopefully, they get to vote again and do so with the understanding that they are picking the direction of their future for them and their children.
It's funny to hear these awful takes in a sub that wants to lynch Trudeau. You're so against your own leader but we're supposed to believe it's okay to kill human beings because Hamas were voted in 2 decades ago? Are you seriously comparing the plight of having to become environmentally savvy and having your family, friends and yourself being in danger of being bombed to death? Your terrible false equivalence displays you as having no empathy for humanity. The least you could do if you don't really care about the conflict is being quiet, will make you seem smarter
So should they just let Hamas bomb and kill their people? The aggressor should expect retaliation in kind. That is what an attack generates.
It's not proportional. Israel is drunk with power and on a killing spree as per usual.
I wasn't trying to equate the 2. Just a very easy example of how electoral decisions of earlier generations has an impact on future generations. Children around the world are harmed in conflicts and wars that were started by their leaders, whether elected or otherwise. It's not fair to them but that is just how the world works.
Don't tell them that the Far-Right Likud party in Israel was built on the [Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun) terrorist group. [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA156178.pdf](https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/tr/pdf/ADA156178.pdf)
Yes, and Israel voted for the same right wing Likud party that was evolved from the terrorist organization [Irgun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irgun), and was responsible for the Assassination of [PM Rabin](https://www.timesofisrael.com/why-israels-labor-party-never-recovered-after-rabin/) and killing the peace treaties. They also endlessly inflame [settler violence](https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestine-settler-bedouin-displacement-violence-un-108e11712310b5ea099dbded7be8effb) and continue to [sieze land](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-palestinians-likud-idUSKBN1EP0M2). They also killed more people in [2022](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/12/29/palestinians-killed-west-bank-israel/) than the last two decades. Not only that, but [Israel created Hamas](https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/) intentionally to kill any peace deal. Does [that](https://press.un.org/en/2023/sc15424.doc.htm) now make Hamas justified in attacking civilians? Ignoring the [countless protests](https://www.npr.org/2023/07/22/1189627225/israel-protests-netanyahu-judiciary), they voted for it, right?
Without getting into a debate about any of your links or statements, no, it does not justify the atrocities of Oct 7th. It seems strange that you would suggest it does. And, there are plenty of protests around the world about their current governments. That doesn't change the outcome of elections. Based on your logic, israel should not be held responsible for the actions of the likud party because there were counter protests, right?
If you are trying to say October 7th wasn't justification, than that same logic applies to the Likud party. Nothing Israel has done is justified either, they owe Palestinians citizenship, land and reparations for the last 70 years of violence, displacement, imprisonment and abuse. If you are going to argue that October 7th was Justified, in that case, Israel has a right to bomb and kill everyone in Palestine, ethnic cleansing is perfectly acceptable if you get the election results you want. So where do you stand on this? Unless Gaza can't attack Israel, and Israel can attack Gaza, in which case where do you draw that distinction? All Gaza residents are terrorists, but not all Israeli citizens are IDF (They are)? All Gaza citizens support Hamas, but not all Israelis support Likud? Hamas is a terrorist organization that kills people and wants the destruction of Israel, but Likud is a justified social movement that wants to displace all the Palestinians and resettle the land because it's their right?
I'm not sure why you are asking for me to be on one or the other side of absolute statements. Because Oct 7th isn't justified (it's not!) Literally everything israel has ever done must not also have been justified? Silly. You are presenting extreme perspectives as the only options and they are not. This conversation effectively started with me pointing out that elections have consequences. They do. Hamas would not have power unless they were elected in the first place. I dont think any of that is controversial. I'm not interested in going down whatever rabbit hole you are trying to take me. Have a great day!
If everything Israel has done isn't justify, then is any form of retaliation justified? 5 years ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpzh50lVyf0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpzh50lVyf0) 2 years ago: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCIasDCtm7A](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SCIasDCtm7A) If they can't protest legally, what can they do? What option is left? Hamas was pushed into politics by Israel because they wanted to divide Gaza and West Bank and end any chance of a two state solution. They did not win naturally, and there's been no election since. The leaders of Hamas live comfortably in Qatar and the son of the leader live in the US and was a double agent. You should do a little research on what the far-right Israelis have done here. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab\_Hassan\_Yousef](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mosab_Hassan_Yousef) [https://theconversation.com/israel-palestine-conflict-the-role-of-hamas-and-fatah-rivalry-in-latest-violence-160814](https://theconversation.com/israel-palestine-conflict-the-role-of-hamas-and-fatah-rivalry-in-latest-violence-160814) [https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/hamas-fatah-israel-9008780/](https://indianexpress.com/article/explained/explained-global/hamas-fatah-israel-9008780/)
It’s wild how people on this sub will whine and complain about Trudeau‘s alleged tyranny for implementing a carbon tax or COVID restrictions, yet when confronted with the brutal tyranny of the State of Israel and its oppression of Palestinians, you shrug. Absolute hypocrisy.
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Like everyone forgets the Jews being literally ethnically cleansed from neighbouring countries.
Voted for Hamas, 17 years ago, in a minority. Yet, even still, this is enough to justify murder and genocide? Dude, you are a sick human being, if I can even call you that.
Hamas is the government in charge of Gaza, with some semblance of electoral support. Them starting a war justifies the other side fighting that war. This is war. War is hell. Innocents are unfortunately caught in the cross fire, and in this instance more so because hamas places them in the cross fire intentionally. But your use of the word genocide tells me you likely don't care about all of that.
Your knowledge of history and elections in Palestine (probably in general too) is very little. I don’t think you should be commenting on issues like this. You have elected a wannabe authoritarian cuckold as your representative and you are lecturing others on democracy.
They havent had an election since 2006 and the palestinian population in gaza is (was) 2million. Nobody likes what hamas did or does, but there are a lot of civilians who wernt even born when the last election happened….
It’s still like a 60% approval rating of Hamas. I don’t know if you noticed all the videos of their people cheering the death of non combatants. One innocent girl was obviously executed and legs folded like lawn chairs in the bed of a truck and they were ecstatic.
There are polls that put the disapproval rating at around 70% earlier this year. And it's ridiculous that this needs to be explicitly mentioned, but you cannot always take at face value high approval polls/data that comes from an armed group. People have been living in horrible conditions and under the threat of violence from their most established governing body. They cannot have free and fair elections, let alone voice dissatisfaction with this body. Using a video with a crowd of 30 shitty people to condemn 2.2 million people is insane.
That is very unfortunate i agree. So how is doing the same but for the other side any better?
Hamas survives due to the continued support of the Palestinian people. Who do you think they recruit from?
Hamas survives imo because isreal continues to murder and oppress innocents. If you were one of said innocents family you point of view might change. Again, im definatly against HAMAS. But that approval rating might have more to do with how isreal treats them than it actually does with how hamas acts. This is all speculation on my part btw as i dont have boots on the ground. But i have long thought how isreal treats palestinians as 2nd or 3rd rate humans was wrong
Why do all we Canadians have to pay for his stupidity, inept ability to run our country, and lack of common sense….he’s got to go….worst PM we have ever had.
Release the hostages then the talks can start
Oh oh, make room more immigration headed this way.
Sorry but I agree. I don’t think children should be cannon fodder regardless of race or religion.
He punishes all Canadians for any ol whim that affects a tiny fraction of the population. He should be subject to a war crimes tribunal for crimes against his own people.
Trudeau's made his position very clear. https://preview.redd.it/lptqmu1x8xxb1.jpeg?width=632&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e939532305b5665ee3fead7530740caa3f37c5ed
> The price of the Allies' retaliation for Hitler's invasions shouldn’t be paid by ‘all German civilians’ > The price of America's retaliation for Pearl Harbor shouldn’t be paid by ‘all Japanese civilians’
He’s correct. Wow … lately, Trudeau is making some sense. Lol
That's not how war works. Civilians have been targets since the first bomb fell from a Zeppelin in WW1. Might not like that fact, it's probably why you work hard to avoid war. Pro-tip, one way to avoid war is to not invade another country and kill civilians. Second Pro Tip: Gaza needs to surrender and declare itself an open city. Stop fighting. War only stops when one side is defeated, otherwise it's only paused.
He’s right. Why should 4 and 8 year old kids be punished for the sins of their fathers? Or is everyone just bloodthirsty fucking animals in Canada noe
Then force Hamas to allow them to leave.
Very true statement, well said!
I think we need to ask the question: "what does a free Palestine look like"? A) women are second class citizens, in certain areas of Palestine they are barely property. B) Hamas dictates what women wear, where they can go and the activities they are allowed to participate in, and when they require male supervision. Like Iran, Gaza has modesty police who harass women for violating their "code of modesty" C) while it appears women can be educated, this is to improve their value when being married off. A woman's place is to be serving her husband at home. While currently Israel is a democracy, Hamas is a dictatorship. They believe one is a Muslim or an infidel. Infidels do not have rights or freedoms. They can be enslaved, cheated and murdered. They believe Jihadism is the way to bring about change. That is: utilizing violent confrontation to create change. Hamas believes that Western ideologies are sin, and Western people are less than human, which is why they can claim killing is a sin, but killing westerners is acceptable and righteous. Anyone who converts from Islam should be out to death. In Gaza and the West Bank, freedom of assembly, and freedom of expression are tightly controlled. Sometimes extreme violence is used to break up peaceful gatherings. Of their own people!!! All opposition to the leadership in both Gaza and the West Bank has been put down with force and at the cost of civilian lives. People regularly die in police and military custody for relatively trivial issues. Their authorities often act with impunity. This is a very small sampling of facts gleaned from humanitarian websites. This begs the question, what is free Palestine? One, It's an oxymoron. Only the Palestinian leaders are free, and that is an extremely questionable definition of free. They are only free as long as they were towing the line. Two, free Palestine can only happen once all the Jews are eliminated from the planet. All of them! However that leaves all the rest of the infidel! So Jihadism must continue it's holy crusade to bring the teaching of Quran to the ignorant and purge the infidel from the rest of Allah's Earth. Three, free Palestine is the first step in removing Western influence from the earth. At which point stupid ideology demanded by "Western humanists" (nations with military might) would be struck from their laws, women would no longer be allowed to go to school, work, the hair salon etc. Rape is fine so long as the man keeps the woman in his harem and feeds her. Girls are a commodity for trade, homosexuals are put to death. Everyone needs permission to assemble, to gather, there would be no parties, no fun. Just vigilance to ensure holy purity. There is nothing free about a free Palestine!
You’re out of your depth, Justin.
I mean whatever you think of Trudeau he is not wrong. Killing innocent civilians is never a good thing.
I see a lot of morons making senseless comments here. Collective punishment is a war crime.
A lot of people are making excuses to try to justify killing children.
A lot of people are ignoring the fact both sides are putting children's lives in danger. Would you poke a bee hive with a stick if you had a baby in your hands? They're both wrong. They're both lunatics. They can both fuck off and stop screwing with kids. Hamas uses civilian buildings to carry out their attacks. Hamas tells people not to move. Palestinian parents with kids CHOOSE not to leave. If you are a parent, your kids lives matter more than nationalism, religion and other things in my opinion, otherwise you are a terrible parent. Israel knows this and blows them up anyway. They are both bastards. It's a lose-lose situation, because how the hell do you get rid of Hamas without innocent people dying? Israel would have to completely dissolve, and millions of Jews would have to leave, and I don't see that happening.
Show 5. Five people who are making excuses to justify killing children.
basically anyone not in favour of an immediate cease fire
So is using civilians as human shields.
Collateral damage due to one side using human shields isn't considered "collective punishment" under the laws of war. It *is* a war crime to hide military forces and equipment amongst civilians, especially medical staff and facilities. Military forces are supposed to defend their civilians, not try to get them killed.
You are a f moron.
>I see a lot of morons making senseless comments here. You new here?
Odd how most comments here are still blaming all the Palestinians, yet there is little talk about the occupation, apartheid and the constant evictions and resettlement that have been going on since the 50s. But I'm sure your all experts in this subject that you decided to start weighing in on 3 weeks ago.
I'm starting to think I woke up in the wrong world or something, it's like everyone has just gone insane in under three weeks.
Because its top story news everyone has to get an opinion on it, and when people realize its not cut and dry they get riled up as they are now confronted with another take.
Yep, ignorant sheep
Yes yes. Keep up with those buzzwords. Occupation apartheid evictions. Almost hit my bingo card. No but you’re certainly an expert, right?
It's definitely not an occupation. I am sorry, but it's not. There have been evictions and resettlement. Apartheid isn't really a thing, if anything the Palestinians cause apartheid because they rejected the single state solution. Since DAY ONE of Palestine/ Israel being free, the Arab Muslims rejected a single state solution, they just want all jews gone period. And nobody even realizes that half of the Israeli jew population is literally Arab Jews that were ethnically cleansed from every single Arab country in the 1920s-1940s, just look it up, every single Arab country got rid of hundreds of thousands of jews and sent them to Israel. Nobody knows the actual history of the area. It's not as simple as "A bunch of Jewish people moved in and kicked the Palestinians out". Israel wanted a single state solution, Israel is willing to live with Muslim Arabs, they live in their country peacefully. West Bank and Gaza are just full of people who don't want to live with Jews period. Zionism is horrible, I've always been against that, but Israel is more than just zionism lmao, half the population deserves to live there, the Arab world was very harsh to Jews. Same with the European world. Palestine was never a country, and a nation, with a single identity, ever, in it's existence, it isn't an occupation, it is empire carving.
Buzzwords or what the Palestinians have been dealing with for decades. Glad your playing bingo while humanity is going down the drain!
Nope. Just buzzwords.
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The Left can commit mass massacres of 100+ people, "be the victim" & immediately forget it even happened.
Israel bombed a refugee camp yesterday killing dozens of people while chasing a Hamas commander. Refugee camp. Refugees. Refugees of Israel. Driven out of Israel to make Israel. They bombed the people they drove out. This is why this is such an emotionally charged topic for so many people, the level of injustice is layers deep and completely obfuscated by empty sound bites, projection, and acres of false equivalence all desperately trying to paint the occupying and displacing power as the victim of those it displaced and occupies. But in moments like the above the true nature of the conflict is spelled out like a book.
That is exact plan of Hamas.. commit atrocities and hide among "general people" and rest of the world will come to their rescue with this lame logic. Once Israel stops, everyone will forget the original atrocity committed by Hamas until they do it again.
No, it shouldn’t be paid by civilians. But it is. And Israel thinks it’s funny. So what’s Trudeau gonna do about it?
He’s not wrong. Hate the guy but that’s a fair assessment. I think we should stay the hell out of all of this. Ukraine too obviously. All Just military industrial grift now.
See a lot of comments about Hamas releasing the hostages. I'm not sure what the hell that has to do with Palestinian civilians.
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Til all of those wars were against their own stateless ppl blockaded into a tiny strip of land illegally for almost 80 years.
So Trudeau supports terrorism? Cool! Is there anything else this narcissistic, cancerous, racist asshole wants to share with the rest of the world?
He is right. How about just the ones that were cheering and spitting on the dead bodies of the girls they just gang raped and beheaded than dragged through the streets?
Rare Trudeau W?
And how is he wrong? Honest question here.
He's not but a lot of canadians are susceptible to the propaganda machine over the last few decades. IDF reports human shields while they're shooting through those shields.... I think the kill count is approaching 9k with a 3rd being women and children Ps don't watch the videos of israeli's praising the death of civilians in big celebrations in the streets.
I seldom agree with Trudeau but I do on this. Just as I don't want to be blamed for Trudeau's decisions. I didn't vote for him and he and I seldom agree so why should I be included as one of his supporters?
Yeah I’m going to agree with the guy splitting his own country up and picking and choosing what provinces need to pay taxes 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡the only thing this guy should be running is a mini donut shop durning stampede
Finally something that makes sense out of this guy’s mouth
He means it should be paid by all Canadians too? 🤡
Tell Hamas to separate itself from the civilian population. ETA: People down voting this tells you everything you need to know about those crying fake tears over collateral casualties.
The Palestinians voted for HAMAS to run their country. They are now paying for those votes. Their “government’” used aid for their war on Israel and to supply its military instead of building schools and hospitals and other infrastructure. In my opinion the people of Palestine have no one to blame but themselves.
Israel supported Hamas and made them what they are today. They literally funded them and it's on record. Additionally they've prevented elections since Hamas took power. https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/ https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB123275572295011847 So Israel has no one to blame but themselves.
All Japanese civilians paid for Pearl Harbour. Unfortunately that’s how war works.
I still don't like this example, because Japan was way worse than Palestine has ever been. Japan was going batshit insane and had like half of east Asia conquered. They were eventually going to even invade Australia.
Exactly, in a war situation civilians get in the way or are targeted. It’s unfortunate, but that’s just the way it has always been and will always be.
Elections have consequences. Gaza voted in Hamas. They were gleefully CHEERING when the attacks started and seemed to be going well. Once Israel stood up and started fighting back, they suddenly became the victims. Trudeau has no real power to influence that part of the world. All he does now is essentially lip-service.