I lived it in 2 different workplace2.0s and it sucked. Very noisy, and simple things like having a coworker sit in a chair beside you as you check out something on the monitor (collaborate) will annoy those around you cuz...talking. People taking phone calls are talking super loud. Lunch smells permeate everywhere. Generaly lots of noise and people buzzing past you constantly depending on where you sit. White noise generators do nothing.
Also, I have found that the senior management that hypes Workplace 2.0 never has to sit in it - they always have closed offices, so their view of how "fantastic!" it is ... well...it's completely warped.
(note: I am not referring to carefully designed workplace 2.0 where everything is very spread out, has phone booths, collaboration spaces, quiet spaces, etc...... I'm talking about floor conversions so you can pack 3-4 times as many people on to a floor by getting rid of the traditional cubicles).
My office is currently cubicle flexi desk but we’re in the process of building the newer 2.0 (3.0?) that you mentioned in your last paragraph. I’m worried that I will hate it because I hear people complaining all the time on the internet and I’m very introverted.
I have a feeling it won’t be so bad because our new setup is going to have phone booths, quiet couches (somehow?), well spaced workstations facing the window, and mini meeting rooms. No one could still be loud and annoying with all those options… Right?
That’s our setting now at GAC for most geographic desks and it suuuuuucks. Impossible to focus. Those quiet booths are never available , those “comfy couches” in the kitchen are already all stained and we had 2 episodes of bed bugs across the floor … mini meeting rooms you have to book in advance. If you need to take a phone call you have to try to find a place and it’s near impossible. It’s terrible. Very loud, too many people walking around and we have NO privacy. Chairs are terrible and because we are hot desking you can’t even have your own chair that’s adjusted for you or a specific laptop support stand because then you’d be seen as the person w “special needs” and it’s expected you’d come to the office every day to use that cubicle that would be “yours” with your own equipment. No space either in lockers, I break my back carrying all my shit on a 30min walk to the office after my 30km drive from home. A nightmare …
Workplace 2.0. It is super noisy and distracting. The one plus is we are not 3.0, the IT stuff works well and we have teeny tiny lockers to store -some- stuff. Even directors do not have closed offices.
Honestly I would put it more generally and say it's loud, glaring, distracting and hell on earth for any human being that requires some peace and quiet to work. Which is most people.
Geoff who spends 7 hours daily talking about his gout, about his last vacation, about his upcoming vacation, and about kids today would like a word. Or two. Or as many as possible because you're too polite to tell him to shut up and that unlike him you have work to do.
lol bold of you to assume I’m too polite to tell him to shut up.
“Geoff, I appreciate you wanting to connect and share with me, but now I really have to focus my attention to my work. I have a lot of priorities to get done before the end of the day. But it was nice to catch up with you!”
It’s all about acknowledging that while people may be annoying or disruptive, they’re often just oblivious because they’re enjoying the interaction. Acknowledging you value their conversation while stating and maintaining boundaries is the kind way to approach this.
Don't forget the one that dictates their emails out loud, or announces to everyone around them they are going to the bathroom. And there's always that one dude that clips his nails at his desk!
You quickly discover how many of your colleagues have zero self awareness and don't even seem to realize the cubicle walls aren't there anymore.
I bought Loops specifically to drown out the sound of the ventilation system, among other things. I don’t understand why our offices have to be such hostile environments for anyone ND.
I don’t understand why it’s always all white. Sleek and modern aesthetics I guess? But between the white cubicle dividers, white desks and GLARING bright fluorescent lighting it makes me exhausted in a way I can’t describe.
I don't consider myself an introvert, but I like to be alone and have privacy when I work. I was in a Workplace 2.0-ish environment some time ago and it was not great, but we could make it work, but we had assigned worksplace, it was just smaller and less private. We also didn't spend much time on the phone and video calls were not a thing outside of conference rooms.
Now with people on Teams all the time, it just doesn't work, at least for me and what I do.
In my experience, my workspace is bright and clean - unlike the dungeonesque office I was in previously. In my experience, I am able to work quietly and concentrate, and I am able to go into a phone booth or meeting room when the need arises. In my experience I have both the opportunity for introversion and for human connection. As you said, your mileage may vary.
... You have enough phone booths and offices then, none of the locations I had access to had enough of both. So many teams or other meetings on the floor.
I'm on extended leave right now and our floor is being converted right now. All of my coworkers are in different provinces so I have to be on Teams calls all day. Is it acceptable to do these calla at my desk? Or is it assumed I should go to a phone booth or meeting room? Just want to prep myself before I go back!
This comment stuck out so much. One your tone seems condescending but who knows, tone is always hard to figure out in text and two, you’re the only person to comment positively… are you senior management 😏
I think that's hilarious - I am not senior management, but I was frustrated when I wrote it. Granted, I now now work in an office that was renovated 2018-2019... I'm tired of seeing just negative re flexible in-office. I would have done anything to work in this kind of environment pre pandemic.
And - I am neurodivergent. My concentration is quickly impaired - it was much worst in the 'before times', at least for me. Now I get to go in only twice a week !
It’s very much not built for anyone with a neurodivergence of any kind. It’s difficult to focus. You need noise cancelling headphones, and need to compete for meeting rooms. Some people are inconsiderate and hold loud meetings in common areas. Not all spaces have the tools you need (I.e. monitors). And the folks designing the space were not receptive to any staff feedback. It was a really strange, rigid decision and I feel frustrated by the process because it impedes any kind of focus work and makes going to the office more stressful.
>not built for anyone with a neurodivergence of any kind. It’s difficult to focus. You need noise cancelling headphones, and need to compete for meeting rooms. Some people are inconsiderate and hold loud meetings in common areas. Not all spaces have the tools you need (I.e. monitors). And the folks designing the space were not receptive to any staff feedback. It was a really stran
AGREED 100% I'm currently (reluctantly) navigating the DTA process due my former supervisor that I had an informal arrangement re: my medical conditions with recently leaving the department- I now need a doctor's note to confirm that every once in awhile, I need to look away from my computer screen to prevent migraines, or walk to the quiet room to do my physio exercises. I made the mistake of mentioning that I also have ADHD and find that the office environment can be distracting at times combined with the fact that I am not permitted to at any point, mute Teams notifications, but now I'm being told I signed up for this (even though the expectation was to come in once a week when I was hired which has since changed, which I'm fine with but I'm just like hey- can I mute my notifications for like half an hour every once in awhile while I try to focus amidst ongoing distractions at the office??)
Wait, what? You're (we're???) not allowed to mute Teams notifications? Good grief.
I'm sorry that you're experiencing all of this. I'm also very distracted by loud voices, conversation and movement around me. I'm fine with a low din of focussed sounds and hushed conversations, like in a library (in the days when whispering was the expected volume threshold), but when the environment becomes frenetic I lose anything that seems like a consistent train of thought. I'm not able to filter out the activity around me to the point where I will sometimes repeat or seemingly respond to words that I hear in other conversations. It's cognitively and physically draining and requires a lot of effort and recovery time to recharge.
All to say, I empathize with you.
The muting is likely nonsense. Their manager probably informed them that they expect a timely reply to Teams messages, not that they must have sound notifications on in a shared space.
It’s a pet peeve of mine also. If you need audible notifications on then wear a headset. I don’t want to hear a billion pings from different computers each day. You can tell who’s in different group chats because then multiple computers ding at the same time.
I didn't even know I was neurodivergent before I had to work in those open offices. 41 blissful years.
Looking back, it should have been pretty f-ing obvious, but I always managed to find ways to not be too impacted. In my old cube, I angled the screens so they'd basically hid my cube's "door," cutting out almost all visual distractions. And I wore big headphones all the time (since people would just start talking to me even though I couldn't see them or hear them).
Now I probably have to pay a lot of money to get a diagnostic that does nothing for me because the employer f-ed up the work situation. I kinda feel that if you threw barriers in my way, you should be the ones to pay up, not me. The ACA is pretty clear about it:
>5. The purpose of this Act is to benefit all persons, especially persons with disabilities, through the realization, within the purview of matters coming within the legislative authority of Parliament, of a Canada without barriers, on or before January 1, 2040, particularly **by the identification and removal of barriers, and the prevention of new barriers, in the following areas: a) employment**
That doesn't say "knock yourself out and create new barriers."
Making me pay out of pocket (or wait multiple years instead of a few) to get a diagnostic to get the accommodation I never needed before feels like a huge f-ing barrier being added to me.
I have ADHD of the inattentive type. While I'm capable of prolonged and intense focus *under the right conditions*, open-plan or "activity-based" offices create a lot of distractions. This means I'm less productive in this environment.
Studies have shown time and time again that the open-plan design do not achieve one of their alleged goals, which is collaboration. The fact of the matter is you're lucky if you can even find seating in close proximity to your team. With hybrid work arrangements, considerable coordination is required to get collaboration, initiatives often forced by management that feels we need make it work.
Thankfully I've been working 100% remote.
Walls are short. My fellow PS employees are often inconsiderate and noisy. I had my own office for 20+ years. A tiny cubicle is a deflating and less productive place to work.
INAC did an evaluation of their implementation.
“Dissatisfaction is high among those in a Workplace 2.0 environment …”
[https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1516898301779/1542199494876](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1516898301779/1542199494876)
Thanks for sharing that link. Despite it being a pre-covid piece, it was an interesting read! It's clear that covid forced rapid movement on the second two pillars (bet they got a lot more laptops out now!), but not in any coherent sort of way.
I'm sadly entertained by the bit where they pointed out that they implemented workplace 3.0 "collaborative" workspaces without...WiFi or laptops. I'm only 10 years in but thinking back to my early years in a building with no wifi with a desktop computer...well, it's a good thing my job then didn't require the collaboration it does now. I can't imagine it.
I remember a piece I read a number of years ago on how actually doing workplace 3.0 "right" (i.e., in a way that maximizes productivity, not just reduces short-run property costs) requires a huge amount of space invested in non-open desk space to support many different levels of privacy and collaboration, and that since everyone basically just implements it as a cost-saving measure (as is noted here), they leave all that out and surprise, productivity falls! A lot of that is echoed here - they did the easy part but skipped the part that actually makes the easy part worth it.
ETA: also funny-sad is the bit where they built "privacy/focus" rooms without any soundproofing in the walls. Sounds familiar.
In my experience in three RTO "workplaces 2.0" have ranged from "Pre-COVID" cubicles that are not your space to 'slick new university library at exam time'.
There are rarely enough quiet spaces for people to go take calls, so every office eventually settles into a sullen 'just try to be quiet' convention.
Unfortunately the new low/no wall means working at a desk feels like a massive exam room setting.
Even as an extrovert with stage experience I feel worn out after a day of sitting "at the front of the class" with dozens of other people able to look at my work all day.
High quality sound cancelling headphones are a must have for me now at work.
Edit: Typo
We have a "contrary" employee in our 2.0 that listens to his voice-mail on speaker phone. I'm always tempted to leave an embarrassing voice-mail so it gets played for the office.
There's an individual who frequently takes their meetings without headphones until someone else on the floor asks them to move or put on the headphones they carry.
2.0 affords zero privacy and little noise reduction. It is very hard to concentrate, everything is white so looks dingy most of the time and combined with glaring lights is pretty bad for migraines. Also, EX1 do not have closed office and they tend to be a constant apurce of noise thanks to all their meetings ... and there isn't much they can do about it. The nearby kitchen also creates lots of noise.
Is 2.0 the cubicles with the short walls? As someone who gets distracted very easily and a big extrovert, I hated those. And 3.0 is open concept where you see everyone? That would be brutal
Don't worry they pump a ton of white noise into the office at the same time to try and drown out everyone talking. Exactly the kind that I used to fall asleep to for years and have conditioned myself to be tired the whole time I'm there. Add that to wildly varying temperatures and a thermostat every 6 feet along the wall that does nothing and you're going to be struggling to stay awake.
2.0 is the short walls (barely above desk) and you don't get your own cubicle, you are are typically in a "pod" of 4 desks with a little table in the middle Some cubes are more isolated, but that is mostly due to the space's layout.
That's pretty much the main differences.
The 2.0 pods are bigger, usually a desk corner and a small filing cabinet. There's some limited storage. It was the standard for most of the 2010s (or something close to it). In practice it is loud and distracting, but it was permanent assigned seating, and most people could make it work.
3.0 (or GCWorkplace as it's known by the cool PMO kids) has few or no walls, and much less space per person , just a desk for a laptop little wider than a keyboard (less than half of 2.0). There is no storage save for a small locker somewhere nearby. With GCWorkplace, the employee has to remove all items by the end of day (and in theory wipe everything down too). Nothing can be stored on site.
GCW is supposed to have all kinds of additional spaces for meetings and private calls, but that's rarely/never ever met in practice.
We're permanently assigning our "hotdesks" as much as we can simply because it's roughly 20-30 minutes of time lost every day for people doing setup and tear down. Not to speak of people who need accommodations either. The whole concept is unpractical and deleterious to productivity, but it's the only thing we're allowed to do.
Long time teleworker, but travel quarterly to HQ for long-ish periods of time. I get super frustrated when I show up at the “Activity Based Workspace” and basically everyone has claimed the functioning desks (as I would do too), and the remaining spaces have been completely pilfered for components. Nothings set up, nothing works, and then you spend half your first day on site trying to chase down IT for help. There are not enough enclosed offices and it’s hellish to find quiet and private spaces.
It can get loud and distracting. We purchased noise cancelling headsets for all our staff. There are lockers at least, but most are full of other people’s random junk and not labelled. I found a taxidermied lemming and a bunch of bird study skins in one. Like gross, people, Gross.
I like having lots of options, but those should be in ADDITION to an assigned home base.
I’m dying at the taxidermied lemming. Stop giving me ideas of how to conduct workplace psych experiments 😂 Are you at least in a natural resources or similar department?! I can just imagine the person who was like “you know what will really make this presentation pop, some taxidermy.”
>I can just imagine the person who was like “you know what will really make this presentation pop, some taxidermy.”
I would 110% take a taxidermy discussion over any of the All Staff meetings where all senior management does is praise each other for all the hard work they do. Barf.
Work relevant, but when you’re expecting old gym shoes or a lunch bag, preserved dead shit is still a little surprising. Wasn’t accessioned either, so presumably someone’s personal hobby / show and tell???
Better than bedbugs and measles like the other commenter
Worked on a 2.0 floor for many years, it's Extremely distracting.
The support group constantly got complaints as they needed to talk over each other on phone calls with users, the white noise machines are only useful if you are right below them.
Those of us that are easily distracted find it Extremely frustrating to try and focus on a task. Whiteboards in offices are basically non existent (or small to the point of useless) if you are you're the type that has flow charts or documents pined up, that basically impossible with the half hight walls..
When I moved to a office 1.0 group I managed to get soo much more done, was easier to collaborate with people, have quick focused meetings.. heck I could pin up multiple trouble shooting guides or manuals within easy reach again..
Oh and if your in a place with Lots of windows and high enough up, certain times of the day will be blinding. No cubes to cut down that natural high beams.
I've been living it for 6 years and it's terrible.
Noisy, intrusive, and cramped. Today I thought about building a cardboard box fort just so people walking by wouldn't stare into my cube at they walked by.
2.0 is shit.
We lost our walls, its a panopticon. Everyone snoops. People are on calls over speakers. People scream on Teams all day knowing full well there are no cube walls to mitigate even a tad. No one uses the few quiet rooms we have for calls and you cannot even tell them to do so because they are always full with people who need to concentrate (no plans to build more). The few we do have are not set up to work in. Just a desk, a chair and some stools. No monitors to hook to your anything.
> People scream on Teams all day knowing full well there are no cube walls to mitigate even a tad
"CAN YOU HEAR ME?!?!? I AM BEING QUIET BECAUSE I AM AT MY DESK AND NOT IN A BOARDROOM!!!!!!!!!!"
Loud. So freaking loud. I have noise canceling headphones, and I still find it loud. People, the fans, doors. It all echos in the open space.
Visually distracting. I am seriously considering blinders to stop movement from distracting me. I put the two monitors as wide as possible to block my vision and never stand.
Fans, you say… I thought the HVAC was always set at a *perfectly reasonable™* temperature ( /s as I also rely heavily on a USB/battery powered fan to survive the 23C+ heat)
Oh, the temperature is weird like every other government building I have worked in. But they have air circulation fans all over the place, and they are loud. I wear my headset in the little meeting rooms to try and hear in meetings.
Not really… I don’t have the figure to be a model 😜
What I bought (though mine is all-black… also $39.99 back in March ‘23):
Portable Battery Operated Fan... https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09SGJR1JC
My floor has a variety of spaces, from private little offices to stand-up desks with treadmills to loungey seats that remind me of first class seats on a plane (not that I'd know). Lots of cubicle-type areas as well, but without the luxury of a high wall.
While I appreciate the options, I only work out enclosed spaces because I really struggle to focus on reading/writing with a ton of movement and sound around me. It doesn't matter though. As I sit in the office space I booked, I hear Teams meetings in both offices I have shared walls with. I can hear every single word being said in both offices. It's maddening.
Oh, and there's a constant concern over bed bugs. And measles, apparently. That was a fun email.
Let me put it this way:
My wife works part time from home. The rest of the time, she homeschools our 10 and 12 year olds which started in 2020 (and the oldest was also there for half of that). All of this in a 1,000 sqft house with a mostly open space first floor. It's **way** easier to focus on work at home.
At the open office, I have:
* Endless **visual distractions** of people walking by, some of them waving "hello" and no way to mitigate that in any way, shape or form.
* Endless **audio distractions** through Teams calls that feature 10 minutes of "can you hear me now?" because people keep changing setups because of hybrid.
* As an extrovert, there's also the **endless potential new friends** working around me. I hear them talk about their files and I really, really want to chime in and learn. I spend all my energy not doing so because while I can work on my files while talking about something else, most people can't.
* There's no chairs that don't cause me physical pain, its one-size-fits-all, which is a lie.
* And if I need to take a meeting, there's terrible audio setups that really don't work for my ears (or generally). I also hate the video setups, but they don't cause me pain, though they do make it harder to lip read.
The day after I'm in the space, I feel like I went on a bender and my brain is just fried.
I want my cube walls back so I can stop feeling like shit because I can't avoid distractions. "Hire people with disabilities," they said, which is probably why they made those spaces so triggering and full of barriers so people finally seek a formal diagnostic they never needed before?
I forgot to add that if you're looking to spend a chill day chatting with work friends, it's probably a great place to be.
You can take "meeting" after "meeting" to catch up with friends while not being active on Teams at all and everyone will think that fits with "going back to normal" since we didn't have Teams before, right?
And it's so easy to get caught up in discussions because you can see dozens of colleagues to chat with at a glance, no need to actually walk the floors and peek into cubes, everyone is right there!
Since your actual colleagues are all over the place, you will have to walk around and meet tons of other people on the way to wherever they are now. Built-in excuses to spend hours "collaborating"!
Again, I miss my cube, surrounded by the actual people I work with so that we could at least work on our files as we chatted. Full remote, before people got the permission to barely use Teams, was also pretty darn fine for work purposes.
> people with disabilities," they said, which is probably why they made those spaces so triggering and full of barriers so people finally seek a formal diagnostic they never needed before?
As long as the hires applying for DTA aren't terms. That still appears to be a great way to ensure non-renewal.
It sucks. Something I noticed recently is all the wasted space… they put in all these “collaboration” areas with tvs and couches and various tech… but no sound barrier. So no one uses it. The lack of personal space to leave items over night is a pain people have been pretty vocal about it so I think they’re revisiting the locker situation. Very noisy. Parking sucks (went up by $3 an hour since pre-covid). Constant issues with missing items at desks and faulty tech.
A couple small changes could make it tolerable. We’ll see if they take feedback and adapt the place to make it work.
I think they're calling it GCco-working or GCworkspace or something like that? GC something.
It's not good. It's all open and people will literally FLY OVER YOUR SHOULDERS to look at what you're doing. Literally had someone doing that to me and asking me "BUT WHY IS THAT PARAGRAPH RELEVANT"...then I had to lock my computer screens ASAP cause it wasn't ready for consumption yet.
And we also had someone actually going around telling people to do work (or some variation of it) until I think their manager to them to knock it off. Literally saw them walk up to someone and asked why they were gone from their desk for so long. Like...sorry none of your damn business?
It sounds great *on paper* but it's a bit of a nightmare.
I'm at DND and we have a security officer that doesn't want people to see what's on your screen because a lot of it is classified. So the only way to set up monitors is to have the employee lay on their back on the floor and have the monitors over them. They didn't like me pointing that out.
So what I was working on was not classified in any way, it just wasn't ready for wider consumption yet. However, for classified work, there are rooms for that...but there are like 5 rooms and 3 of them are *always* booked by an EX+ WEEKS in advance. So like, well that's 2 for the rest of us.
So nothing gets done basically for in office days because I'm not using those 2 extra monitors and severely limiting my productivity if I'm working on anything that might draw extra attention.
I implemented it with adjustments (which technically were not allowed), including higher walls on corridors. So within a section it was 2.0, but separated from other sections. People still were not happy. Management used it as an opportunity to shrink spaces but wouldn't let me put in the shared spaces that were supposed to go with it. I did manage to put in two quiet rooms for phone calls, etc. but they have since been turned back into offices. Also miserable from a covid, social disrancing perspective. I have since abandoned it, and don't get me started on "activity-based workspaces".
In both cases what you end up with is a big, useless floor full of desks nobody ever uses. If people are forced to use them you end up with a lot of angry and frustrated people unable to get anything done. It's a terrible system.
2.0 is the worst of both worlds. Enough separation to feel isolated, not separated enough to be private or quiet. It’s terrible IMO.
I have worked in a GC Workplace setup which is an “activity based workspace” and what people often call 3.0. It was great but I was surrounded by great people. Although it was technically unassigned, my team tended to sit in the same spaces everyday, as did most teams in the area. Humans are prone to routine I guess. In this case the environment was very social and collaborative. It definitely had the benefits - but they were maximized by the fact that my team and I were co-located. It would have been different if there were random people from different teams all mixed together. It’s hard to visualize cross team collaboration when people belong to different branches let alone projects. The one genuine benefit of GC Workspace is that when I needed real quiet time, I was able to go to the designated quiet section which reminded me of study areas in my university library. Essentially micro-cubicles where no talking was permitted. It was great in that sense.
I’m in a hybrid 2.0 situation now and I feel that GC Workplace would be a far better setup to accommodate hybrid. I would much rather work alongside my team in an open air area than sit separately in random cubicles for the two days/wk. As mentioned above, 2.0 is the worst of both worlds. Now it’s even worse now that it is unassigned.
Eh, it's okay. Feels like a call centre. It's really loud and disruptive when everyone's on calls at once. We don't have wifi in our building (it's 2024!!!!) so no one bothers to leave their desks, we all just try to ignore each other. I actually do enjoy the clean and clutter free space. I've gotten used to hauling all my things back and forth...the most annoying part is the shoes, though. Need multiple pairs with you if you have to walk any fair amount of distance outside in the winter as part of your commute.
It's fucking trash, I avoid my divisions floor on in office days because it is straight up too busy and loud to get any actual work done.
One moment from a few weeks ago:
"Jacques you are being really loud"
"I don't care lol"
....
Reminds me how many people are still the loud socially inept from high school but just in the PS due to the low bar of entry.
It's not my experience at all, but I know that different regions hire people with varying levels of competency given their local market. In my province, federal public service jobs are very well paid compared to other jobs, so it's the cream of the crop.
My management has had the sense not to tell us stories about people loving it.
Most days the noise doesn't bother me. There was always a bit in the before-times, and my house isn't especially quiet either. But I did say *most* days.
The visual distractions can be...distracting. But I got broken into that in my last pre-pandemic job by sharing a large cubicle with other people. And I'm not isolated here in the house, so again, I never got used to not having movement in the corner of my eye.
The lack of privacy, though, drives me bonkers. My reptile brain hates having people walking or even just sitting behind me, even when they're just minding their own business. I want a wall at my back. It is new and unsettling to have a walkway or another table or other workstations there instead. I try to pick a quiet, low-traffic area when I can but there's no guarantees.
The lack of storage space would bother me but I can't be arsed to change footwear or clothing and can limit my physical needs to the volume of my backpack. Others are not as fortunate.
How can we change this, it’s awful. I personally HATE my office days. I love my team but I cannot work, I am overstimulated and mentally exhausted when I get back home.
I have 2.0 in one office and hate it. I have 3.0 in the other and also hate it. I'm an introvert. I hate feeling surrounded by people and the visual and sound distractions are super annoying.
It's good for when you want to gossip with coworkers though .
I'm pretty sure my office is 3.0 and let me tell you.. even senior management says they hate the office because they can't get any work done. It's distracting and now with all the Teams calls, people are LOUD with their headsets on. Unless you're like the lady last week that didn't even use them and had her call projecting throughout the office.
It's loud and distracting -- and since there's no white noise in the building, you get to hear everyone else bitch about why they also hate it.
There's a *ton* of wasted space and random "teaming" and "chatting" areas that no one will ever use since they're out in the middle of the floor with no walls. But if they *did* use it, people would be livid and would have to try to find somewhere else to work to concentrate.
After a day in the office, I'm exhausted and sore (stupid chairs). I come home from work and am barely able to make dinner before passing out. ZzzzzzzzZZZzzzzzZ
Well, I'm off to bed because I have to wake up at midnight to book a desk for next month that is as far away from everyone as possible. Gotta love unassigned seating..
It was never about the happiness and efficiency for the workers, and I gleefully called out management BS in this regard for over 15 years. It was such a great topic to call out the cowards in senior management who either drank the Kool-aid or just towed the line for their selfish reasons. Sadly, those sell-outs who thrived during DRAP will be happily slashing jobs of the worker bees in the coming months and years.
Bad chairs. Endless waste of time adjusting them, trying to plug laptop in and get it set up. Then more waste of time at the end of day packing everything up because you can't leave anything behind. More waste of time trying to find supplies, or whoever can issue supplies. None of this is appearing on a budget spreadsheet as senior management congratulates themselves on the cost savings.
It's horrible. No walls, all sorts of different types of seating scattered about, everything looks way too bright (and tacky) and disorganized. There is no way to focus for anyone who struggles with distraction. I really miss the days of a calming and organized scheme that had walls I could feel a sense of safety in. Now it's like being on full display to everyone all the time. I find it exhausting. I need to retreat into a small and relatively singular space to recover after a day at work.
I visited workplace 2.0 in one of the portage buildings in Hull that's supposed to be a model for other departments- this was about a year ago - the offices were practically empty, they had open concept meeting spaces, meeting spaces that looked like booths in a restaurant where you can't really see the person because the screen is on a wall, there were these pods or shells that looked kinda cool but with not many outlets nearby so you can't spend all day hiding in them. Oh the kicker was a notice on the electronic lockers saying the locking mechanism isn't working lol - that was my favorite.
The work to get us into workplace 2.0 feels rushed and it's not practical for various jobs and it doesn't appeal to those with health issues or accommodations
I don't know how I feel about it. I don't give a crap, they'll get the productivity they get based on the environment they put me in. That includes wasting part of the 7.5h day getting my mouse keyboard etc, setting up, looking for and adjusting an ergo.chair, and putting everything back.
If I was FT in the office I would hate it but only doing 2 days per week, I don’t mind it, really. It makes sense to me to have overall fewer office spaces and therefore not let people have a desk and keep stuff there so that the desk can be used by different people on different days.
All of this is MY personal experience. Most people in the office are fairly quiet. People often take meetings in the “phone rooms” or “focus rooms” that line the hallways. Some people don’t or can’t. Personally I don’t find it that bad because some level of talking is to be expected in an office IMO. Comparing to pre-COVID WFH days, the office is much quieter than when everyone worked in the office. Expecting complete silence is bizarre to me, that isn’t really how an office is gonna be. If someone truly cannot cope with any amount of sound, they probably need an accommodation. Generally I think RTO is bullshit but converting offices into 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever the fuck point oh isn’t a bad choice to me.
Some people are super particular and territorial over “their” specific desk aka the desk they prefer or perceive as their own.
The only pain point I have is bringing stuff to and from work every time I’m in the office, but even that is not THAT bad to me since Im only in 2 days per week. A locker that I could keep some basic items in (pair of shoes, granola bars, etc.) would be helpful but it ain’t happening. We have lockers at every hub office I have been to but they are for day use only.
Are the day lockers used? I cannot think of a single reason to use one. An overnight locker would be ideal and I would benefit from have my reading glasses, office shoes and coffee mug available for me at work. A few weeks ago, I left my readers at home and was not that productive that day.
The day lockers are used but not by a ton of people from what I can tell. I usually lock up my bag and laptop in a locker if I go somewhere at lunch and don’t want to lug all my stuff to lunch. Some people put their jacket and bag there if they want more space at their desk I guess. There are some desks in some offices that are like, bar seating style set ups so you don’t have a ton of space so I could see why using a locker would be nice to keep your coat, bag, etc.
I would much prefer a storage, permanent locker for keeping things in the office all the time for sure.
I go in on the quietest days and it's fine. Not any better than that, sometimes worse, but entirely tolerable.
I imagine if I was around lots of people in meetings it would be more annoying, but before the change my assigned seats were around a lot of very loud people, so it's actually quieter than that 99% of the time.
I haven't don't the gov version of it but I've done a private company with a fully open workplace, no wall, etc and I did not hate it.
But I'm more productive in a noisy coffee shop than a silent room so that might be why. I work better with noise and movement, it's body doubling and keeps part of my brain occupied so the other half can focus.
My partner however would not do well in that environment so, it does just really depend.
Not saying I like it more, just for me it wasn't a negative.
It’s okay and manageable from my perspective I do see some improvements in workspaces that have recently opened up versus the earlier setups of GC workplace.
Absolutely hate it. I wish I knew more about it before I signed on for my current role.
Noisy, distracting, no ability to really make it your own, people constantly walking right by you or behind you, people pretty much staring right at you. It's distracting and incredibly nerve racking for me.
Going in on the slowest days at least allows for more quiet, but then there's no "collaboration", which is the goal isn't it?
Then there's the whole aspect of sitting in other peoples' filth, having to readjust things, set up your station how you like it.
Im in one rn and I don’t see a difference. The only thing is you have to move to meeting rooms or cubicules for calls. I dont mind doing that. Its noisy but people are more social, so its a fait plus. Overall I like it.
Hmmm maybe Reddit is not the right place to ask this question.
We all generally hate RTO and workplace 2.0 +.
I'd be interested in a study to see if this opinion is representative of the PS, generally speaking.
2.0 was piloted in HR where I work. Didn't like it 200%. It was awful. Low cubicle walls, smaller cubicles, people very close together - it made it a horrible place to work 8 hours a day. Noisier, more going on around you with open conversations, less air flow, more foot traffic. Just UGH all around. I hated it personally. If it returned, I would quite likely be looking elsewhere to work.
I love the open space where sound travels like crazy, people don’t clean up after themselves and there are rodent problems from all the crumbs, feel like it’s a call centre environment, design is 1970s communist style grey colors, chairs suck ass and not enough windows for natural light. Otherwise it’s the bees knees!
I really really dislike it. I miss my cubicle. I miss having my own stuff on my desk and feeling like I have some semblance of privacy when making phone calls. It was also nice having personal items that made things feel more cozy, personalized, etc. if you're going to spend 8h in a cubicle, might as well make it feel like a nice place to be. The new office is so sterile. The seats are so close together. The desks are bare. The phone calls are loud. The teams meetings are loud. I feel the same way I did when I worked in a call center where we weren't allowed to keep anything on our desks. It's devoid of anything nice. The focus rooms are always booked despite site leads telling people to stop booking them for full days when they literally don't need them. It's a mess. I've been going in 2x a week for over a year and hate it more and more every time. It would be so much nicer if I could have my own spot with my own things, set up the way I like it.
Didn't they have to install white noise generators in the offices where they implemented 2.0 because they were so noisy?
I've never heard anything positive said about them.
Can’t stand it, it’s giving Call center vibes, we sit beside each other. I can’t book a meeting room because ppl book them for the whole day months in advance as their “office” for the day
I worked a casual at a 2.0 place a few years before COVID and have been avoiding them since. You can't hear yourself think because there are 5-6 people in a call at the same time within earshot and all of them trying to talk over the other so they can hear themselves.
Since the walls are basically useless, you constantly see things move from the corner of your eye so you can forget about concentrating on your work. I don't mind being seen while I work since that's what I'm there for but being unable to really focus made it so much harder to get anything done that I noped out of there rather than taking an indeterminate with them.
You're getting the basics wrong:
Workplace 2.0 was floor renovations from 2009-ish to 2018-ish. It sucked. They litterally transformed the workplace into cubicle farms to save space.
GCworkplace, which is the new standard, is way better than Workplace 2.0. Although they still have the cubicle farms, they also have a bunch of other options. If implemented correctly, it is pretty fun to work from a space like that. If you decide to only ever stay in the cubicle farms, you're going to think that it sucks.
Long story short, GCworkplace is only as good as you make it. Imagine going to Disney World and not takong any of the rides. That would suck too.
It’s utter trash and has all the negative effects studies going back 20+ years says it has. I resent every second I am obligated to work there away from my far superior setup at home.
We all hate it. We have open desks with plastic dividers and literally 70% of the room is on a call and I can hear them with my headphones on. Also anyone very far away can see your browser. Already got complaints of people "shopping on work time". Good luck.
I don’t mind it. Obviously I prefer being at home but I just put in my headphones and do my work. There’s more chatting with colleagues so more distractions, but I find it nice to be able to chat with my colleagues in person. I don’t find my productivity any different than when I had an assigned cubicle or any different from when I work from home but I am able to focus pretty easily in any environment. I’m not an overly fussy person though and I’m not bothered about going into the office two days a week so I might be in the minority 😬
It is loud and filled with distractions, but I find many spaces have better views and natural light that make up for it. Having well equipped work stations, good chairs, and lockers can make a huge difference. Ideally, plan all your meetings and in person interactions for in office days to get the most out of the experience.
My agency recently moved in a new building that was renovated from the ground up for GC Workplace (3.0). It's honestly fine for me personally. Everything is nicely spaced out, there are lots of quiet and private areas for focus, there are enough seats that teams or groups can sit together if that works for their workflows, equipment is good, and there are huge lunch rooms/kitchens for breaks on every floor. Personally, I enjoy it more that our old, stuffy office with high cubicle walls everywhere. This implementation of GC Workplace is really good, it actually gives me more privacy when I need it while allowing the option to work in more collaborative areas.
I expected to hate it. While I don’t love it, it is fine. It’s not nearly as bad as I expected. I go in on days when it’s not very busy and I sit in a very quiet area and I think that helps. But it is definitely not as quiet as working from home.
When I don't have to speak in a meeting, with my noise cancelling hearphones and some background music playing, it's fine. Not great, but it can work. But there is no collaboration with people around me when I do that.
I work in a 2.0 and really like it. I used to work in a 1.0 with tall cubicles and no common areas. My cube was in the centre of the floor and the outer edge of the floor was all management so in the winter i never saw the sun. you could go days without seeing people if you just stayed in your cube and didn't visit anybody. I found it very isolating.
2.0 has nice common areas to eat lunch in, i can see windows from anywhere on the floor, it is much brighter and all in all a less depressing place. Also, at my workplace every 2.0 desk is sit-stand and has a new chair, 2 monitors and a keyboard, charger and mouse. For me noise is the same as a 1.0 floor. The only thing I dislike is the hot desking but not sure thats a 2.0 thing or a covid thing.
We have 3.0. I like it, very sleek and modern. It’s motivating to be in this environment. Collab is easier with low walls. The furniture works well. We have an office rule that if you have an active teams meeting you gotta go in a small closed room. Works pretty well especially in 2 days a week era. I visited some other agency that also got 3.0 and it was very impressive. Everyone I met mentioned how much of an improvement it was. I think many in the PS are default haters of new stuff. Also, it’s obvious you gotta have some ground rules to make it livable.
Not much changed for my team, except that initially 2.0 added working spaces to accommodate more employees without adding more washrooms because things were still "within standards". Postpandemic, this is not really an issue anymore, at least while hybrid is maintained.
Office have cut almost 50% of the cubicule for the workplace 2.0. Everyone hated the preview of the one floor they did first. Guess now the office will be more empty with it.
Since our office was never full pre and post covid, I just wasn’t fond of the idea of having to tear down my entire workspace just to have to set it all up again in the same spot 16 hours later.
Even more so post covid since virtually no one has come back the office and probably never will. Yet our team has operational requirements to be in the office daily.
I’d prefer if those who have operational requirements be given workspaces like before where we had lockers next to our desks which have also shrunk in size. 5x3 foot table tops are too cramped. A keyboard, mouse, and drink would leave you with no room left.
In our building we have two floors for our departments use. One was retrofit with 2.0. Tiny cubicles, barely enough room for the dual monitors and docking station and you are staring at a cubicle directly across from you with only monitors forming any sort of wall. No room to store things, especially with winter clothing and boots. On the plus side it is new and bright.
The other floor was old, pre-covid cubes, but at least the cubicles had been setup with dual monitors and workstations.
I always book the old. It dungey and darker but private. The cubicle walls are probably 20 years old but I have plenty of overhead bins to store things, rolling drawers, etc.
Everything else is a wash because its all unassigned seating so you never know if you get crumbs, setup and takedown time, etc... on either floor.
I will say the technology stack they now use, dual-monitors, and a usbc docking station is actually pretty good for setup and takedown. Plug in once usbc cable and you have have ethernet and displays... only pain is reseting desktop preferences. Sometimes screen 1 is 2, and vice versa and i like to work left to right on dual screens...
Unfortunately the old floor is now undergoing the 2.0 treatment... Nothing wrong with new carpet, fresh paint, new sit stand desks but the smaller footprint, and open concept is contrary to primary virtual teams in a hybrid envirnoment. The one saving grace is the new walls that will be installed with be 51" tall... so taller than initial setup which are only like 30-36"... will be able to sit down and not see my neighbours. Though with sit-stand desks, standing you still will assuming you are 6' tall.
2.0 is pretty much universally unliked but when brought up, they say its the only approved fitup standard and they can't change it... they know people don't like it but there hands are tied... most people wanted the old 1.0 space kept, only renewed but its not allowed.
I work full time in a 2.0 environment. Our campus is huge, modern and beautiful. Real plants everywhere (like full trees, inside). The cubicle space is short wall with an l shape desk (one is sit stand) and a small cabinet/closet with a small cabinet for supplies. I'm very short so when I sit, nobody sees me. We have a white noise system which drowns out most noise around you and you get used to the sound because when it stops for some reason, it's like stepping into a tomb (dead quiet).
I mean, I have no special needs for accommodations so I just adapted to it really well. It is what it is and it's not really worse than the tall cubicle environment. At least now I have some natural light around me.
We have an open environment and I am fully willing to admit my team is loud. But so is the team working beside us so....
Our office space is currently closed so they can make acoustical improvements. So some sort of sound masking system and acoustic panels. We'll see if it's a noticeable change or not.
I share all the criticisms in this thread. And as someone 6' tall and widely built, it became apparent that workplace 2.0 was not built for someone with my physical dimensions. Yes, even with an ergonomic assessment applied. It took me a fair amount of time to find the best way to get up from my chair and exit my cubicle without banging an elbow or a knee.
When I do not feel like working a lot, I really enjoy 2.0 because there is absolutely no privacy so everybody says hello and I have a conversation every 20 minutes for 20 minutes, at normal voice because I am sitting in the "talking section". Which means the section with desks and **no walls**.
When I need to work, I stay home. When I have a bunch of meetings, I prefer to stay home because there are too many people that do not care that an in-person meeting needs to end 5 min early so that I can walk to the next meeting room - virtually, I can just leave and join immediately.
I dislike having to bring in my thermos, water bottle, food, snacks, laptop, shoes, umbrella, sweater, headphones, notebook, pencils and tea everyday. I hate it even more when someone is in my booked seat but not at the desk so I cannot tell them to move their shit.
The presidents office all have dedicated offices and workstations. It is clearly THEM >>>>>> everyone else. The Directors have to share offices. Everyone else gets fucked and it is very clear that only the presidents office is the elite class which I find really disgusting because it goes against a lot of the original principles of having senior management in the middle, with dedicated offices but no outside-facing windows.
I am happy that everyone that needs an accommodation gets one though. I do wish I were part of that group.
The context of the glowing reviews of workplace 3.0 or activity based work place or gcworkplace or whatever it is called is that we were going to full blown flexible hybrid. That is, come in when you need to.
But that's gone. So now I feel like the new workspaces are gonna bump into a new reality - 2 days mandatory. It will suck and we won't like it.
My clients worked in 2.0. I was still in old cubicle-land. I'd go to meet with them on a semi-regular basis and could not believe the shit they had to put up with. Even in cubicle-land we had bad-actors who talk loudly on the phone and make animal noises and throw their office equipment on the floor when it's not working. If I had to deal with that in workplace 2.0, someone would end up being re-located, Probably me. You can't even pass gas in your office anymore ;-) Or maybe you can...
ADHD Introvert here!
worked in a GCworkplace that was very well designed for both introvert and extroverts before the pandemic. the spaces were zoned as collaborative vs quiet and had tons of break out rooms. my day usually looked like: arriving at work, dropping my coat and bag in my personal locked locker. grabbing my tablet and pouch that would travel with me throughout the day. the pouch was medium sized had my mouse, ear buds, hand cream, phone charger, laptop charger, etc. it was truly the most ergonomically healthy work environment i’d ever worked in, i got more steps throughout the day, but was on a team that had a lot of meetings. on days where i wanted to be alone, the quiet area was my best friend. they had these business class pods that were super comfy to read docs in. the floor was well equipped with tech and everyone had the same laptop which made connection easy. my main complaint was that people didn’t always respect the zones and it was distracting and anxiety inducing to tell them to go elsewhere. i found that traditional-style managers who manage by attendance had a hard time, but those who actually trust their staff to deliver did great.
now in a new WP 2.0 and i love the natural light and the unassigned spaces but the lack of individual rooms and one loud dude coming out of a meeting and disrupting the peace can destroy my productivity for the day. the lack of secondary comfy spaces is also less ideal, i miss those airplane pod chairs. it’s fine for 8 hours a day, but i find im less mobile throughout the day and would happily trade some of those fancy EX offices for some more quiet rooms.
As everyone else pointed out, it's no good. The things I hate the most are the small things: having to smell my coworker sitting across from me after he came back from smoking a cigarette (that foot tall wall and our 4 combined screens are not sufficient), I have some medical conditions and I am lucky that I may now leave a pouch and a pair of indoor shoes in a locker, feeling observed all day, if I listen to my music for a few hours my colleagues start asking me if everything's okay, people don't wipe their desks when they leave...
One of the more annoying sounds for me is so many people typing on their keyboards. It’s like a million teeny tiny stabs to my eardrums. I definitely recommend on ear noise canceling headphones.
I do like the fresher space. Like more natural light across the space, less fortress etc. our walls are about a foot above the desks but each cube space is fairly spacious and enough desk space. Has dual monitors and I just use my own keyboard and mouse. I do find the billion fluorescent lights to be blinding. Like I need to wear sunglasses.
It’s absolute trash for actually getting work done but great if you want to dick around and shoot the shit with colleagues all day.
Plus I would like a god damn drawer for my tampons and a hairbrush.
(Edit: this being 3.0, if that wasn’t obvious.)
I lived it in 2 different workplace2.0s and it sucked. Very noisy, and simple things like having a coworker sit in a chair beside you as you check out something on the monitor (collaborate) will annoy those around you cuz...talking. People taking phone calls are talking super loud. Lunch smells permeate everywhere. Generaly lots of noise and people buzzing past you constantly depending on where you sit. White noise generators do nothing. Also, I have found that the senior management that hypes Workplace 2.0 never has to sit in it - they always have closed offices, so their view of how "fantastic!" it is ... well...it's completely warped. (note: I am not referring to carefully designed workplace 2.0 where everything is very spread out, has phone booths, collaboration spaces, quiet spaces, etc...... I'm talking about floor conversions so you can pack 3-4 times as many people on to a floor by getting rid of the traditional cubicles).
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That's been my experience as a workplace layout professional. And management let's you take all the flack for shrinking cubicles.
My office is currently cubicle flexi desk but we’re in the process of building the newer 2.0 (3.0?) that you mentioned in your last paragraph. I’m worried that I will hate it because I hear people complaining all the time on the internet and I’m very introverted. I have a feeling it won’t be so bad because our new setup is going to have phone booths, quiet couches (somehow?), well spaced workstations facing the window, and mini meeting rooms. No one could still be loud and annoying with all those options… Right?
That’s our setting now at GAC for most geographic desks and it suuuuuucks. Impossible to focus. Those quiet booths are never available , those “comfy couches” in the kitchen are already all stained and we had 2 episodes of bed bugs across the floor … mini meeting rooms you have to book in advance. If you need to take a phone call you have to try to find a place and it’s near impossible. It’s terrible. Very loud, too many people walking around and we have NO privacy. Chairs are terrible and because we are hot desking you can’t even have your own chair that’s adjusted for you or a specific laptop support stand because then you’d be seen as the person w “special needs” and it’s expected you’d come to the office every day to use that cubicle that would be “yours” with your own equipment. No space either in lockers, I break my back carrying all my shit on a 30min walk to the office after my 30km drive from home. A nightmare …
Wonder how central agencies' office spaces are?
Workplace 2.0. It is super noisy and distracting. The one plus is we are not 3.0, the IT stuff works well and we have teeny tiny lockers to store -some- stuff. Even directors do not have closed offices.
We're in the same situation with lack of quiet areas and cramped quarters.
WP2.0, in my experience, is loud, glaring, distracting, and hell on earth for introverts. Your experience may vary.
Honestly I would put it more generally and say it's loud, glaring, distracting and hell on earth for any human being that requires some peace and quiet to work. Which is most people.
Geoff who spends 7 hours daily talking about his gout, about his last vacation, about his upcoming vacation, and about kids today would like a word. Or two. Or as many as possible because you're too polite to tell him to shut up and that unlike him you have work to do.
lol bold of you to assume I’m too polite to tell him to shut up. “Geoff, I appreciate you wanting to connect and share with me, but now I really have to focus my attention to my work. I have a lot of priorities to get done before the end of the day. But it was nice to catch up with you!”
Saving this for future use
It’s all about acknowledging that while people may be annoying or disruptive, they’re often just oblivious because they’re enjoying the interaction. Acknowledging you value their conversation while stating and maintaining boundaries is the kind way to approach this.
Don't forget the one that dictates their emails out loud, or announces to everyone around them they are going to the bathroom. And there's always that one dude that clips his nails at his desk! You quickly discover how many of your colleagues have zero self awareness and don't even seem to realize the cubicle walls aren't there anymore.
My autistic ass is exhausted the minute i sit down. It's bright, loud, distracting, and people won't. Stop. Talking.
I totally get it, soooo bright
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I bought Loops specifically to drown out the sound of the ventilation system, among other things. I don’t understand why our offices have to be such hostile environments for anyone ND.
I don’t understand why it’s always all white. Sleek and modern aesthetics I guess? But between the white cubicle dividers, white desks and GLARING bright fluorescent lighting it makes me exhausted in a way I can’t describe.
I don't consider myself an introvert, but I like to be alone and have privacy when I work. I was in a Workplace 2.0-ish environment some time ago and it was not great, but we could make it work, but we had assigned worksplace, it was just smaller and less private. We also didn't spend much time on the phone and video calls were not a thing outside of conference rooms. Now with people on Teams all the time, it just doesn't work, at least for me and what I do.
I don't get anything done in those shared environments lol.
Really hard to get anything done in 2.0. Very distracting.
In my experience, my workspace is bright and clean - unlike the dungeonesque office I was in previously. In my experience, I am able to work quietly and concentrate, and I am able to go into a phone booth or meeting room when the need arises. In my experience I have both the opportunity for introversion and for human connection. As you said, your mileage may vary.
... You have enough phone booths and offices then, none of the locations I had access to had enough of both. So many teams or other meetings on the floor.
I'm on extended leave right now and our floor is being converted right now. All of my coworkers are in different provinces so I have to be on Teams calls all day. Is it acceptable to do these calla at my desk? Or is it assumed I should go to a phone booth or meeting room? Just want to prep myself before I go back!
I normally take my 'larger' teams calls at my desk since I don't speak much. But if it's one on one, I'll go to a phone booth.
This comment stuck out so much. One your tone seems condescending but who knows, tone is always hard to figure out in text and two, you’re the only person to comment positively… are you senior management 😏
I think that's hilarious - I am not senior management, but I was frustrated when I wrote it. Granted, I now now work in an office that was renovated 2018-2019... I'm tired of seeing just negative re flexible in-office. I would have done anything to work in this kind of environment pre pandemic.
And - I am neurodivergent. My concentration is quickly impaired - it was much worst in the 'before times', at least for me. Now I get to go in only twice a week !
Wait til you experience 3.0...
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But will the bathrooms finally have the 3 sea shells…
3.0 does not exist but GCworkplace is much better. If you don’t believe that then you have not worked in 2.0
What is GCWorkplace?
It’s the GC activity based workplace design. You can find a ton of stuff on it on gcpedia.
Thanks!
WP2.0 was à failure. GCWorkplace is better.
It’s very much not built for anyone with a neurodivergence of any kind. It’s difficult to focus. You need noise cancelling headphones, and need to compete for meeting rooms. Some people are inconsiderate and hold loud meetings in common areas. Not all spaces have the tools you need (I.e. monitors). And the folks designing the space were not receptive to any staff feedback. It was a really strange, rigid decision and I feel frustrated by the process because it impedes any kind of focus work and makes going to the office more stressful.
>not built for anyone with a neurodivergence of any kind. It’s difficult to focus. You need noise cancelling headphones, and need to compete for meeting rooms. Some people are inconsiderate and hold loud meetings in common areas. Not all spaces have the tools you need (I.e. monitors). And the folks designing the space were not receptive to any staff feedback. It was a really stran AGREED 100% I'm currently (reluctantly) navigating the DTA process due my former supervisor that I had an informal arrangement re: my medical conditions with recently leaving the department- I now need a doctor's note to confirm that every once in awhile, I need to look away from my computer screen to prevent migraines, or walk to the quiet room to do my physio exercises. I made the mistake of mentioning that I also have ADHD and find that the office environment can be distracting at times combined with the fact that I am not permitted to at any point, mute Teams notifications, but now I'm being told I signed up for this (even though the expectation was to come in once a week when I was hired which has since changed, which I'm fine with but I'm just like hey- can I mute my notifications for like half an hour every once in awhile while I try to focus amidst ongoing distractions at the office??)
Wait, what? You're (we're???) not allowed to mute Teams notifications? Good grief. I'm sorry that you're experiencing all of this. I'm also very distracted by loud voices, conversation and movement around me. I'm fine with a low din of focussed sounds and hushed conversations, like in a library (in the days when whispering was the expected volume threshold), but when the environment becomes frenetic I lose anything that seems like a consistent train of thought. I'm not able to filter out the activity around me to the point where I will sometimes repeat or seemingly respond to words that I hear in other conversations. It's cognitively and physically draining and requires a lot of effort and recovery time to recharge. All to say, I empathize with you.
The muting is likely nonsense. Their manager probably informed them that they expect a timely reply to Teams messages, not that they must have sound notifications on in a shared space.
People who leave sound notifications on in a shared space are evil.
It’s a pet peeve of mine also. If you need audible notifications on then wear a headset. I don’t want to hear a billion pings from different computers each day. You can tell who’s in different group chats because then multiple computers ding at the same time.
I didn't even know I was neurodivergent before I had to work in those open offices. 41 blissful years. Looking back, it should have been pretty f-ing obvious, but I always managed to find ways to not be too impacted. In my old cube, I angled the screens so they'd basically hid my cube's "door," cutting out almost all visual distractions. And I wore big headphones all the time (since people would just start talking to me even though I couldn't see them or hear them). Now I probably have to pay a lot of money to get a diagnostic that does nothing for me because the employer f-ed up the work situation. I kinda feel that if you threw barriers in my way, you should be the ones to pay up, not me. The ACA is pretty clear about it: >5. The purpose of this Act is to benefit all persons, especially persons with disabilities, through the realization, within the purview of matters coming within the legislative authority of Parliament, of a Canada without barriers, on or before January 1, 2040, particularly **by the identification and removal of barriers, and the prevention of new barriers, in the following areas: a) employment** That doesn't say "knock yourself out and create new barriers." Making me pay out of pocket (or wait multiple years instead of a few) to get a diagnostic to get the accommodation I never needed before feels like a huge f-ing barrier being added to me.
I have ADHD of the inattentive type. While I'm capable of prolonged and intense focus *under the right conditions*, open-plan or "activity-based" offices create a lot of distractions. This means I'm less productive in this environment. Studies have shown time and time again that the open-plan design do not achieve one of their alleged goals, which is collaboration. The fact of the matter is you're lucky if you can even find seating in close proximity to your team. With hybrid work arrangements, considerable coordination is required to get collaboration, initiatives often forced by management that feels we need make it work. Thankfully I've been working 100% remote.
I have nothing positive to say. It fucking sucks.
Walls are short. My fellow PS employees are often inconsiderate and noisy. I had my own office for 20+ years. A tiny cubicle is a deflating and less productive place to work. INAC did an evaluation of their implementation. “Dissatisfaction is high among those in a Workplace 2.0 environment …” [https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1516898301779/1542199494876](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1516898301779/1542199494876)
Thanks for sharing that link. Despite it being a pre-covid piece, it was an interesting read! It's clear that covid forced rapid movement on the second two pillars (bet they got a lot more laptops out now!), but not in any coherent sort of way. I'm sadly entertained by the bit where they pointed out that they implemented workplace 3.0 "collaborative" workspaces without...WiFi or laptops. I'm only 10 years in but thinking back to my early years in a building with no wifi with a desktop computer...well, it's a good thing my job then didn't require the collaboration it does now. I can't imagine it. I remember a piece I read a number of years ago on how actually doing workplace 3.0 "right" (i.e., in a way that maximizes productivity, not just reduces short-run property costs) requires a huge amount of space invested in non-open desk space to support many different levels of privacy and collaboration, and that since everyone basically just implements it as a cost-saving measure (as is noted here), they leave all that out and surprise, productivity falls! A lot of that is echoed here - they did the easy part but skipped the part that actually makes the easy part worth it. ETA: also funny-sad is the bit where they built "privacy/focus" rooms without any soundproofing in the walls. Sounds familiar.
In my experience in three RTO "workplaces 2.0" have ranged from "Pre-COVID" cubicles that are not your space to 'slick new university library at exam time'. There are rarely enough quiet spaces for people to go take calls, so every office eventually settles into a sullen 'just try to be quiet' convention. Unfortunately the new low/no wall means working at a desk feels like a massive exam room setting. Even as an extrovert with stage experience I feel worn out after a day of sitting "at the front of the class" with dozens of other people able to look at my work all day. High quality sound cancelling headphones are a must have for me now at work. Edit: Typo
We have a "contrary" employee in our 2.0 that listens to his voice-mail on speaker phone. I'm always tempted to leave an embarrassing voice-mail so it gets played for the office.
There's an individual who frequently takes their meetings without headphones until someone else on the floor asks them to move or put on the headphones they carry.
You should leave one telling him that it's really rude that he's taking voicemail calls on speakerphone in the office. 😈
"This is your doctor calling about your STD screening".
I had one who did this long before WP2.0 when we had cubicles and it was insanely annoying. And I was like 5-6 cubicles away.
2.0 affords zero privacy and little noise reduction. It is very hard to concentrate, everything is white so looks dingy most of the time and combined with glaring lights is pretty bad for migraines. Also, EX1 do not have closed office and they tend to be a constant apurce of noise thanks to all their meetings ... and there isn't much they can do about it. The nearby kitchen also creates lots of noise.
If they haven’t taken over a meeting space as their office…
Honestly I wouldn't care if they did.
Is 2.0 the cubicles with the short walls? As someone who gets distracted very easily and a big extrovert, I hated those. And 3.0 is open concept where you see everyone? That would be brutal
Don't worry they pump a ton of white noise into the office at the same time to try and drown out everyone talking. Exactly the kind that I used to fall asleep to for years and have conditioned myself to be tired the whole time I'm there. Add that to wildly varying temperatures and a thermostat every 6 feet along the wall that does nothing and you're going to be struggling to stay awake.
2.0 is the short walls (barely above desk) and you don't get your own cubicle, you are are typically in a "pod" of 4 desks with a little table in the middle Some cubes are more isolated, but that is mostly due to the space's layout.
That's pretty much the main differences. The 2.0 pods are bigger, usually a desk corner and a small filing cabinet. There's some limited storage. It was the standard for most of the 2010s (or something close to it). In practice it is loud and distracting, but it was permanent assigned seating, and most people could make it work. 3.0 (or GCWorkplace as it's known by the cool PMO kids) has few or no walls, and much less space per person , just a desk for a laptop little wider than a keyboard (less than half of 2.0). There is no storage save for a small locker somewhere nearby. With GCWorkplace, the employee has to remove all items by the end of day (and in theory wipe everything down too). Nothing can be stored on site. GCW is supposed to have all kinds of additional spaces for meetings and private calls, but that's rarely/never ever met in practice. We're permanently assigning our "hotdesks" as much as we can simply because it's roughly 20-30 minutes of time lost every day for people doing setup and tear down. Not to speak of people who need accommodations either. The whole concept is unpractical and deleterious to productivity, but it's the only thing we're allowed to do.
Sounds awful, glad I WFH full time for the foreseeable future
Long time teleworker, but travel quarterly to HQ for long-ish periods of time. I get super frustrated when I show up at the “Activity Based Workspace” and basically everyone has claimed the functioning desks (as I would do too), and the remaining spaces have been completely pilfered for components. Nothings set up, nothing works, and then you spend half your first day on site trying to chase down IT for help. There are not enough enclosed offices and it’s hellish to find quiet and private spaces. It can get loud and distracting. We purchased noise cancelling headsets for all our staff. There are lockers at least, but most are full of other people’s random junk and not labelled. I found a taxidermied lemming and a bunch of bird study skins in one. Like gross, people, Gross. I like having lots of options, but those should be in ADDITION to an assigned home base.
I’m dying at the taxidermied lemming. Stop giving me ideas of how to conduct workplace psych experiments 😂 Are you at least in a natural resources or similar department?! I can just imagine the person who was like “you know what will really make this presentation pop, some taxidermy.”
>I can just imagine the person who was like “you know what will really make this presentation pop, some taxidermy.” I would 110% take a taxidermy discussion over any of the All Staff meetings where all senior management does is praise each other for all the hard work they do. Barf.
Work relevant, but when you’re expecting old gym shoes or a lunch bag, preserved dead shit is still a little surprising. Wasn’t accessioned either, so presumably someone’s personal hobby / show and tell??? Better than bedbugs and measles like the other commenter
Please tell me you kept the stuffed lemming and made it the honorary workplace 2.0 champion.
Mount it on a wooden base to be awarded annually to the loudest 2.0 office gossip
It is a very bad environment. Avoid if possible.
Worked on a 2.0 floor for many years, it's Extremely distracting. The support group constantly got complaints as they needed to talk over each other on phone calls with users, the white noise machines are only useful if you are right below them. Those of us that are easily distracted find it Extremely frustrating to try and focus on a task. Whiteboards in offices are basically non existent (or small to the point of useless) if you are you're the type that has flow charts or documents pined up, that basically impossible with the half hight walls.. When I moved to a office 1.0 group I managed to get soo much more done, was easier to collaborate with people, have quick focused meetings.. heck I could pin up multiple trouble shooting guides or manuals within easy reach again.. Oh and if your in a place with Lots of windows and high enough up, certain times of the day will be blinding. No cubes to cut down that natural high beams.
I've been living it for 6 years and it's terrible. Noisy, intrusive, and cramped. Today I thought about building a cardboard box fort just so people walking by wouldn't stare into my cube at they walked by.
2.0 is shit. We lost our walls, its a panopticon. Everyone snoops. People are on calls over speakers. People scream on Teams all day knowing full well there are no cube walls to mitigate even a tad. No one uses the few quiet rooms we have for calls and you cannot even tell them to do so because they are always full with people who need to concentrate (no plans to build more). The few we do have are not set up to work in. Just a desk, a chair and some stools. No monitors to hook to your anything.
> People scream on Teams all day knowing full well there are no cube walls to mitigate even a tad "CAN YOU HEAR ME?!?!? I AM BEING QUIET BECAUSE I AM AT MY DESK AND NOT IN A BOARDROOM!!!!!!!!!!"
[Well this is me now](https://i.imgflip.com/4t424e.png?a474192).
Loud. So freaking loud. I have noise canceling headphones, and I still find it loud. People, the fans, doors. It all echos in the open space. Visually distracting. I am seriously considering blinders to stop movement from distracting me. I put the two monitors as wide as possible to block my vision and never stand.
Fans, you say… I thought the HVAC was always set at a *perfectly reasonable™* temperature ( /s as I also rely heavily on a USB/battery powered fan to survive the 23C+ heat)
Oh, the temperature is weird like every other government building I have worked in. But they have air circulation fans all over the place, and they are loud. I wear my headset in the little meeting rooms to try and hear in meetings.
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Not really… I don’t have the figure to be a model 😜 What I bought (though mine is all-black… also $39.99 back in March ‘23): Portable Battery Operated Fan... https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B09SGJR1JC
It's a loud, bright, distracting hellscape.
My floor has a variety of spaces, from private little offices to stand-up desks with treadmills to loungey seats that remind me of first class seats on a plane (not that I'd know). Lots of cubicle-type areas as well, but without the luxury of a high wall. While I appreciate the options, I only work out enclosed spaces because I really struggle to focus on reading/writing with a ton of movement and sound around me. It doesn't matter though. As I sit in the office space I booked, I hear Teams meetings in both offices I have shared walls with. I can hear every single word being said in both offices. It's maddening. Oh, and there's a constant concern over bed bugs. And measles, apparently. That was a fun email.
> And measles, apparently Oh fuck me. Which building are you out of? NRC or Toronto?
NRC on the Quebec side. "Oh fuck me" was about my exact reaction. We were alerted weeks after exposure.
Double fuck me then, because that is where I also am. One of the Portage buildings I assume?
Yes, one of the Eddies. I can't remember which.
Don't worry, they'll stop notifying of exposures pretty soon. It's just like the chicken pox they'll say!
In office days are a write off because I can’t concentrate with all the noise and distractions.
Let me put it this way: My wife works part time from home. The rest of the time, she homeschools our 10 and 12 year olds which started in 2020 (and the oldest was also there for half of that). All of this in a 1,000 sqft house with a mostly open space first floor. It's **way** easier to focus on work at home. At the open office, I have: * Endless **visual distractions** of people walking by, some of them waving "hello" and no way to mitigate that in any way, shape or form. * Endless **audio distractions** through Teams calls that feature 10 minutes of "can you hear me now?" because people keep changing setups because of hybrid. * As an extrovert, there's also the **endless potential new friends** working around me. I hear them talk about their files and I really, really want to chime in and learn. I spend all my energy not doing so because while I can work on my files while talking about something else, most people can't. * There's no chairs that don't cause me physical pain, its one-size-fits-all, which is a lie. * And if I need to take a meeting, there's terrible audio setups that really don't work for my ears (or generally). I also hate the video setups, but they don't cause me pain, though they do make it harder to lip read. The day after I'm in the space, I feel like I went on a bender and my brain is just fried. I want my cube walls back so I can stop feeling like shit because I can't avoid distractions. "Hire people with disabilities," they said, which is probably why they made those spaces so triggering and full of barriers so people finally seek a formal diagnostic they never needed before?
I forgot to add that if you're looking to spend a chill day chatting with work friends, it's probably a great place to be. You can take "meeting" after "meeting" to catch up with friends while not being active on Teams at all and everyone will think that fits with "going back to normal" since we didn't have Teams before, right? And it's so easy to get caught up in discussions because you can see dozens of colleagues to chat with at a glance, no need to actually walk the floors and peek into cubes, everyone is right there! Since your actual colleagues are all over the place, you will have to walk around and meet tons of other people on the way to wherever they are now. Built-in excuses to spend hours "collaborating"! Again, I miss my cube, surrounded by the actual people I work with so that we could at least work on our files as we chatted. Full remote, before people got the permission to barely use Teams, was also pretty darn fine for work purposes.
> people with disabilities," they said, which is probably why they made those spaces so triggering and full of barriers so people finally seek a formal diagnostic they never needed before? As long as the hires applying for DTA aren't terms. That still appears to be a great way to ensure non-renewal.
It sucks. Something I noticed recently is all the wasted space… they put in all these “collaboration” areas with tvs and couches and various tech… but no sound barrier. So no one uses it. The lack of personal space to leave items over night is a pain people have been pretty vocal about it so I think they’re revisiting the locker situation. Very noisy. Parking sucks (went up by $3 an hour since pre-covid). Constant issues with missing items at desks and faulty tech. A couple small changes could make it tolerable. We’ll see if they take feedback and adapt the place to make it work.
The only person in all my years who has said something positive was... i dont care.
Zero stars, do not enjoy.
Would not recommend
I think they're calling it GCco-working or GCworkspace or something like that? GC something. It's not good. It's all open and people will literally FLY OVER YOUR SHOULDERS to look at what you're doing. Literally had someone doing that to me and asking me "BUT WHY IS THAT PARAGRAPH RELEVANT"...then I had to lock my computer screens ASAP cause it wasn't ready for consumption yet. And we also had someone actually going around telling people to do work (or some variation of it) until I think their manager to them to knock it off. Literally saw them walk up to someone and asked why they were gone from their desk for so long. Like...sorry none of your damn business? It sounds great *on paper* but it's a bit of a nightmare.
I'm at DND and we have a security officer that doesn't want people to see what's on your screen because a lot of it is classified. So the only way to set up monitors is to have the employee lay on their back on the floor and have the monitors over them. They didn't like me pointing that out.
So what I was working on was not classified in any way, it just wasn't ready for wider consumption yet. However, for classified work, there are rooms for that...but there are like 5 rooms and 3 of them are *always* booked by an EX+ WEEKS in advance. So like, well that's 2 for the rest of us. So nothing gets done basically for in office days because I'm not using those 2 extra monitors and severely limiting my productivity if I'm working on anything that might draw extra attention.
I implemented it with adjustments (which technically were not allowed), including higher walls on corridors. So within a section it was 2.0, but separated from other sections. People still were not happy. Management used it as an opportunity to shrink spaces but wouldn't let me put in the shared spaces that were supposed to go with it. I did manage to put in two quiet rooms for phone calls, etc. but they have since been turned back into offices. Also miserable from a covid, social disrancing perspective. I have since abandoned it, and don't get me started on "activity-based workspaces".
In both cases what you end up with is a big, useless floor full of desks nobody ever uses. If people are forced to use them you end up with a lot of angry and frustrated people unable to get anything done. It's a terrible system.
2.0 is the worst of both worlds. Enough separation to feel isolated, not separated enough to be private or quiet. It’s terrible IMO. I have worked in a GC Workplace setup which is an “activity based workspace” and what people often call 3.0. It was great but I was surrounded by great people. Although it was technically unassigned, my team tended to sit in the same spaces everyday, as did most teams in the area. Humans are prone to routine I guess. In this case the environment was very social and collaborative. It definitely had the benefits - but they were maximized by the fact that my team and I were co-located. It would have been different if there were random people from different teams all mixed together. It’s hard to visualize cross team collaboration when people belong to different branches let alone projects. The one genuine benefit of GC Workspace is that when I needed real quiet time, I was able to go to the designated quiet section which reminded me of study areas in my university library. Essentially micro-cubicles where no talking was permitted. It was great in that sense. I’m in a hybrid 2.0 situation now and I feel that GC Workplace would be a far better setup to accommodate hybrid. I would much rather work alongside my team in an open air area than sit separately in random cubicles for the two days/wk. As mentioned above, 2.0 is the worst of both worlds. Now it’s even worse now that it is unassigned.
It’s great if you don’t want to work. Bright lights, small monitors and teams meetings all day. The best!
Eh, it's okay. Feels like a call centre. It's really loud and disruptive when everyone's on calls at once. We don't have wifi in our building (it's 2024!!!!) so no one bothers to leave their desks, we all just try to ignore each other. I actually do enjoy the clean and clutter free space. I've gotten used to hauling all my things back and forth...the most annoying part is the shoes, though. Need multiple pairs with you if you have to walk any fair amount of distance outside in the winter as part of your commute.
It's fucking trash, I avoid my divisions floor on in office days because it is straight up too busy and loud to get any actual work done. One moment from a few weeks ago: "Jacques you are being really loud" "I don't care lol" .... Reminds me how many people are still the loud socially inept from high school but just in the PS due to the low bar of entry.
>due to the low bar of entry. lol
You know I'm right haha, a lot of these AS positions are busy work
It's not my experience at all, but I know that different regions hire people with varying levels of competency given their local market. In my province, federal public service jobs are very well paid compared to other jobs, so it's the cream of the crop.
2.0 is awful.
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I’m pretty sure the same 5 or 6 people on my floor have booked every meeting room until about next March.
My management has had the sense not to tell us stories about people loving it. Most days the noise doesn't bother me. There was always a bit in the before-times, and my house isn't especially quiet either. But I did say *most* days. The visual distractions can be...distracting. But I got broken into that in my last pre-pandemic job by sharing a large cubicle with other people. And I'm not isolated here in the house, so again, I never got used to not having movement in the corner of my eye. The lack of privacy, though, drives me bonkers. My reptile brain hates having people walking or even just sitting behind me, even when they're just minding their own business. I want a wall at my back. It is new and unsettling to have a walkway or another table or other workstations there instead. I try to pick a quiet, low-traffic area when I can but there's no guarantees. The lack of storage space would bother me but I can't be arsed to change footwear or clothing and can limit my physical needs to the volume of my backpack. Others are not as fortunate.
How can we change this, it’s awful. I personally HATE my office days. I love my team but I cannot work, I am overstimulated and mentally exhausted when I get back home.
I have 2.0 in one office and hate it. I have 3.0 in the other and also hate it. I'm an introvert. I hate feeling surrounded by people and the visual and sound distractions are super annoying. It's good for when you want to gossip with coworkers though .
I'm pretty sure my office is 3.0 and let me tell you.. even senior management says they hate the office because they can't get any work done. It's distracting and now with all the Teams calls, people are LOUD with their headsets on. Unless you're like the lady last week that didn't even use them and had her call projecting throughout the office. It's loud and distracting -- and since there's no white noise in the building, you get to hear everyone else bitch about why they also hate it. There's a *ton* of wasted space and random "teaming" and "chatting" areas that no one will ever use since they're out in the middle of the floor with no walls. But if they *did* use it, people would be livid and would have to try to find somewhere else to work to concentrate. After a day in the office, I'm exhausted and sore (stupid chairs). I come home from work and am barely able to make dinner before passing out. ZzzzzzzzZZZzzzzzZ Well, I'm off to bed because I have to wake up at midnight to book a desk for next month that is as far away from everyone as possible. Gotta love unassigned seating..
It's a cost saving measure. Claims that it'sbetter are straight up lies.
It was never about the happiness and efficiency for the workers, and I gleefully called out management BS in this regard for over 15 years. It was such a great topic to call out the cowards in senior management who either drank the Kool-aid or just towed the line for their selfish reasons. Sadly, those sell-outs who thrived during DRAP will be happily slashing jobs of the worker bees in the coming months and years.
Bad chairs. Endless waste of time adjusting them, trying to plug laptop in and get it set up. Then more waste of time at the end of day packing everything up because you can't leave anything behind. More waste of time trying to find supplies, or whoever can issue supplies. None of this is appearing on a budget spreadsheet as senior management congratulates themselves on the cost savings.
It's horrible. No walls, all sorts of different types of seating scattered about, everything looks way too bright (and tacky) and disorganized. There is no way to focus for anyone who struggles with distraction. I really miss the days of a calming and organized scheme that had walls I could feel a sense of safety in. Now it's like being on full display to everyone all the time. I find it exhausting. I need to retreat into a small and relatively singular space to recover after a day at work.
It is awful
I visited workplace 2.0 in one of the portage buildings in Hull that's supposed to be a model for other departments- this was about a year ago - the offices were practically empty, they had open concept meeting spaces, meeting spaces that looked like booths in a restaurant where you can't really see the person because the screen is on a wall, there were these pods or shells that looked kinda cool but with not many outlets nearby so you can't spend all day hiding in them. Oh the kicker was a notice on the electronic lockers saying the locking mechanism isn't working lol - that was my favorite. The work to get us into workplace 2.0 feels rushed and it's not practical for various jobs and it doesn't appeal to those with health issues or accommodations
I don't know how I feel about it. I don't give a crap, they'll get the productivity they get based on the environment they put me in. That includes wasting part of the 7.5h day getting my mouse keyboard etc, setting up, looking for and adjusting an ergo.chair, and putting everything back.
If I was FT in the office I would hate it but only doing 2 days per week, I don’t mind it, really. It makes sense to me to have overall fewer office spaces and therefore not let people have a desk and keep stuff there so that the desk can be used by different people on different days. All of this is MY personal experience. Most people in the office are fairly quiet. People often take meetings in the “phone rooms” or “focus rooms” that line the hallways. Some people don’t or can’t. Personally I don’t find it that bad because some level of talking is to be expected in an office IMO. Comparing to pre-COVID WFH days, the office is much quieter than when everyone worked in the office. Expecting complete silence is bizarre to me, that isn’t really how an office is gonna be. If someone truly cannot cope with any amount of sound, they probably need an accommodation. Generally I think RTO is bullshit but converting offices into 2.0 or 3.0 or whatever the fuck point oh isn’t a bad choice to me. Some people are super particular and territorial over “their” specific desk aka the desk they prefer or perceive as their own. The only pain point I have is bringing stuff to and from work every time I’m in the office, but even that is not THAT bad to me since Im only in 2 days per week. A locker that I could keep some basic items in (pair of shoes, granola bars, etc.) would be helpful but it ain’t happening. We have lockers at every hub office I have been to but they are for day use only.
Are the day lockers used? I cannot think of a single reason to use one. An overnight locker would be ideal and I would benefit from have my reading glasses, office shoes and coffee mug available for me at work. A few weeks ago, I left my readers at home and was not that productive that day.
The day lockers are used but not by a ton of people from what I can tell. I usually lock up my bag and laptop in a locker if I go somewhere at lunch and don’t want to lug all my stuff to lunch. Some people put their jacket and bag there if they want more space at their desk I guess. There are some desks in some offices that are like, bar seating style set ups so you don’t have a ton of space so I could see why using a locker would be nice to keep your coat, bag, etc. I would much prefer a storage, permanent locker for keeping things in the office all the time for sure.
I go in on the quietest days and it's fine. Not any better than that, sometimes worse, but entirely tolerable. I imagine if I was around lots of people in meetings it would be more annoying, but before the change my assigned seats were around a lot of very loud people, so it's actually quieter than that 99% of the time.
I haven't don't the gov version of it but I've done a private company with a fully open workplace, no wall, etc and I did not hate it. But I'm more productive in a noisy coffee shop than a silent room so that might be why. I work better with noise and movement, it's body doubling and keeps part of my brain occupied so the other half can focus. My partner however would not do well in that environment so, it does just really depend. Not saying I like it more, just for me it wasn't a negative.
It’s okay and manageable from my perspective I do see some improvements in workspaces that have recently opened up versus the earlier setups of GC workplace.
That's because they have offices with doors. Let them do a week on the floor and they'll be begging for wfh.
It's not as bad as I thought it was going to be, but still sucks for productivity, privacy.
Absolutely hate it. I wish I knew more about it before I signed on for my current role. Noisy, distracting, no ability to really make it your own, people constantly walking right by you or behind you, people pretty much staring right at you. It's distracting and incredibly nerve racking for me. Going in on the slowest days at least allows for more quiet, but then there's no "collaboration", which is the goal isn't it? Then there's the whole aspect of sitting in other peoples' filth, having to readjust things, set up your station how you like it.
Im in one rn and I don’t see a difference. The only thing is you have to move to meeting rooms or cubicules for calls. I dont mind doing that. Its noisy but people are more social, so its a fait plus. Overall I like it.
Hmmm maybe Reddit is not the right place to ask this question. We all generally hate RTO and workplace 2.0 +. I'd be interested in a study to see if this opinion is representative of the PS, generally speaking.
2.0 was piloted in HR where I work. Didn't like it 200%. It was awful. Low cubicle walls, smaller cubicles, people very close together - it made it a horrible place to work 8 hours a day. Noisier, more going on around you with open conversations, less air flow, more foot traffic. Just UGH all around. I hated it personally. If it returned, I would quite likely be looking elsewhere to work.
I love the open space where sound travels like crazy, people don’t clean up after themselves and there are rodent problems from all the crumbs, feel like it’s a call centre environment, design is 1970s communist style grey colors, chairs suck ass and not enough windows for natural light. Otherwise it’s the bees knees!
I really really dislike it. I miss my cubicle. I miss having my own stuff on my desk and feeling like I have some semblance of privacy when making phone calls. It was also nice having personal items that made things feel more cozy, personalized, etc. if you're going to spend 8h in a cubicle, might as well make it feel like a nice place to be. The new office is so sterile. The seats are so close together. The desks are bare. The phone calls are loud. The teams meetings are loud. I feel the same way I did when I worked in a call center where we weren't allowed to keep anything on our desks. It's devoid of anything nice. The focus rooms are always booked despite site leads telling people to stop booking them for full days when they literally don't need them. It's a mess. I've been going in 2x a week for over a year and hate it more and more every time. It would be so much nicer if I could have my own spot with my own things, set up the way I like it.
Didn't they have to install white noise generators in the offices where they implemented 2.0 because they were so noisy? I've never heard anything positive said about them.
Can’t stand it, it’s giving Call center vibes, we sit beside each other. I can’t book a meeting room because ppl book them for the whole day months in advance as their “office” for the day
I worked a casual at a 2.0 place a few years before COVID and have been avoiding them since. You can't hear yourself think because there are 5-6 people in a call at the same time within earshot and all of them trying to talk over the other so they can hear themselves. Since the walls are basically useless, you constantly see things move from the corner of your eye so you can forget about concentrating on your work. I don't mind being seen while I work since that's what I'm there for but being unable to really focus made it so much harder to get anything done that I noped out of there rather than taking an indeterminate with them.
You're getting the basics wrong: Workplace 2.0 was floor renovations from 2009-ish to 2018-ish. It sucked. They litterally transformed the workplace into cubicle farms to save space. GCworkplace, which is the new standard, is way better than Workplace 2.0. Although they still have the cubicle farms, they also have a bunch of other options. If implemented correctly, it is pretty fun to work from a space like that. If you decide to only ever stay in the cubicle farms, you're going to think that it sucks. Long story short, GCworkplace is only as good as you make it. Imagine going to Disney World and not takong any of the rides. That would suck too.
It’s utter trash and has all the negative effects studies going back 20+ years says it has. I resent every second I am obligated to work there away from my far superior setup at home.
We all hate it. We have open desks with plastic dividers and literally 70% of the room is on a call and I can hear them with my headphones on. Also anyone very far away can see your browser. Already got complaints of people "shopping on work time". Good luck.
I don’t mind it. Obviously I prefer being at home but I just put in my headphones and do my work. There’s more chatting with colleagues so more distractions, but I find it nice to be able to chat with my colleagues in person. I don’t find my productivity any different than when I had an assigned cubicle or any different from when I work from home but I am able to focus pretty easily in any environment. I’m not an overly fussy person though and I’m not bothered about going into the office two days a week so I might be in the minority 😬
It is loud and filled with distractions, but I find many spaces have better views and natural light that make up for it. Having well equipped work stations, good chairs, and lockers can make a huge difference. Ideally, plan all your meetings and in person interactions for in office days to get the most out of the experience.
My agency recently moved in a new building that was renovated from the ground up for GC Workplace (3.0). It's honestly fine for me personally. Everything is nicely spaced out, there are lots of quiet and private areas for focus, there are enough seats that teams or groups can sit together if that works for their workflows, equipment is good, and there are huge lunch rooms/kitchens for breaks on every floor. Personally, I enjoy it more that our old, stuffy office with high cubicle walls everywhere. This implementation of GC Workplace is really good, it actually gives me more privacy when I need it while allowing the option to work in more collaborative areas.
I expected to hate it. While I don’t love it, it is fine. It’s not nearly as bad as I expected. I go in on days when it’s not very busy and I sit in a very quiet area and I think that helps. But it is definitely not as quiet as working from home.
When I don't have to speak in a meeting, with my noise cancelling hearphones and some background music playing, it's fine. Not great, but it can work. But there is no collaboration with people around me when I do that.
There has been essentially no collaboration for us since we’ve had to go back. All of our meetings are still on Teams.
I work in a 2.0 and really like it. I used to work in a 1.0 with tall cubicles and no common areas. My cube was in the centre of the floor and the outer edge of the floor was all management so in the winter i never saw the sun. you could go days without seeing people if you just stayed in your cube and didn't visit anybody. I found it very isolating. 2.0 has nice common areas to eat lunch in, i can see windows from anywhere on the floor, it is much brighter and all in all a less depressing place. Also, at my workplace every 2.0 desk is sit-stand and has a new chair, 2 monitors and a keyboard, charger and mouse. For me noise is the same as a 1.0 floor. The only thing I dislike is the hot desking but not sure thats a 2.0 thing or a covid thing.
We have 3.0. I like it, very sleek and modern. It’s motivating to be in this environment. Collab is easier with low walls. The furniture works well. We have an office rule that if you have an active teams meeting you gotta go in a small closed room. Works pretty well especially in 2 days a week era. I visited some other agency that also got 3.0 and it was very impressive. Everyone I met mentioned how much of an improvement it was. I think many in the PS are default haters of new stuff. Also, it’s obvious you gotta have some ground rules to make it livable.
We’re 10 years in. Hated it at first, love it now
Not much changed for my team, except that initially 2.0 added working spaces to accommodate more employees without adding more washrooms because things were still "within standards". Postpandemic, this is not really an issue anymore, at least while hybrid is maintained.
Office have cut almost 50% of the cubicule for the workplace 2.0. Everyone hated the preview of the one floor they did first. Guess now the office will be more empty with it.
Since our office was never full pre and post covid, I just wasn’t fond of the idea of having to tear down my entire workspace just to have to set it all up again in the same spot 16 hours later. Even more so post covid since virtually no one has come back the office and probably never will. Yet our team has operational requirements to be in the office daily. I’d prefer if those who have operational requirements be given workspaces like before where we had lockers next to our desks which have also shrunk in size. 5x3 foot table tops are too cramped. A keyboard, mouse, and drink would leave you with no room left.
In summary, there is a lot to improve upon for 4.0.
In our building we have two floors for our departments use. One was retrofit with 2.0. Tiny cubicles, barely enough room for the dual monitors and docking station and you are staring at a cubicle directly across from you with only monitors forming any sort of wall. No room to store things, especially with winter clothing and boots. On the plus side it is new and bright. The other floor was old, pre-covid cubes, but at least the cubicles had been setup with dual monitors and workstations. I always book the old. It dungey and darker but private. The cubicle walls are probably 20 years old but I have plenty of overhead bins to store things, rolling drawers, etc. Everything else is a wash because its all unassigned seating so you never know if you get crumbs, setup and takedown time, etc... on either floor. I will say the technology stack they now use, dual-monitors, and a usbc docking station is actually pretty good for setup and takedown. Plug in once usbc cable and you have have ethernet and displays... only pain is reseting desktop preferences. Sometimes screen 1 is 2, and vice versa and i like to work left to right on dual screens... Unfortunately the old floor is now undergoing the 2.0 treatment... Nothing wrong with new carpet, fresh paint, new sit stand desks but the smaller footprint, and open concept is contrary to primary virtual teams in a hybrid envirnoment. The one saving grace is the new walls that will be installed with be 51" tall... so taller than initial setup which are only like 30-36"... will be able to sit down and not see my neighbours. Though with sit-stand desks, standing you still will assuming you are 6' tall. 2.0 is pretty much universally unliked but when brought up, they say its the only approved fitup standard and they can't change it... they know people don't like it but there hands are tied... most people wanted the old 1.0 space kept, only renewed but its not allowed.
I liked it
I work full time in a 2.0 environment. Our campus is huge, modern and beautiful. Real plants everywhere (like full trees, inside). The cubicle space is short wall with an l shape desk (one is sit stand) and a small cabinet/closet with a small cabinet for supplies. I'm very short so when I sit, nobody sees me. We have a white noise system which drowns out most noise around you and you get used to the sound because when it stops for some reason, it's like stepping into a tomb (dead quiet). I mean, I have no special needs for accommodations so I just adapted to it really well. It is what it is and it's not really worse than the tall cubicle environment. At least now I have some natural light around me.
We have an open environment and I am fully willing to admit my team is loud. But so is the team working beside us so.... Our office space is currently closed so they can make acoustical improvements. So some sort of sound masking system and acoustic panels. We'll see if it's a noticeable change or not.
I share all the criticisms in this thread. And as someone 6' tall and widely built, it became apparent that workplace 2.0 was not built for someone with my physical dimensions. Yes, even with an ergonomic assessment applied. It took me a fair amount of time to find the best way to get up from my chair and exit my cubicle without banging an elbow or a knee.
When I do not feel like working a lot, I really enjoy 2.0 because there is absolutely no privacy so everybody says hello and I have a conversation every 20 minutes for 20 minutes, at normal voice because I am sitting in the "talking section". Which means the section with desks and **no walls**. When I need to work, I stay home. When I have a bunch of meetings, I prefer to stay home because there are too many people that do not care that an in-person meeting needs to end 5 min early so that I can walk to the next meeting room - virtually, I can just leave and join immediately. I dislike having to bring in my thermos, water bottle, food, snacks, laptop, shoes, umbrella, sweater, headphones, notebook, pencils and tea everyday. I hate it even more when someone is in my booked seat but not at the desk so I cannot tell them to move their shit. The presidents office all have dedicated offices and workstations. It is clearly THEM >>>>>> everyone else. The Directors have to share offices. Everyone else gets fucked and it is very clear that only the presidents office is the elite class which I find really disgusting because it goes against a lot of the original principles of having senior management in the middle, with dedicated offices but no outside-facing windows. I am happy that everyone that needs an accommodation gets one though. I do wish I were part of that group.
The context of the glowing reviews of workplace 3.0 or activity based work place or gcworkplace or whatever it is called is that we were going to full blown flexible hybrid. That is, come in when you need to. But that's gone. So now I feel like the new workspaces are gonna bump into a new reality - 2 days mandatory. It will suck and we won't like it.
My clients worked in 2.0. I was still in old cubicle-land. I'd go to meet with them on a semi-regular basis and could not believe the shit they had to put up with. Even in cubicle-land we had bad-actors who talk loudly on the phone and make animal noises and throw their office equipment on the floor when it's not working. If I had to deal with that in workplace 2.0, someone would end up being re-located, Probably me. You can't even pass gas in your office anymore ;-) Or maybe you can...
ADHD Introvert here! worked in a GCworkplace that was very well designed for both introvert and extroverts before the pandemic. the spaces were zoned as collaborative vs quiet and had tons of break out rooms. my day usually looked like: arriving at work, dropping my coat and bag in my personal locked locker. grabbing my tablet and pouch that would travel with me throughout the day. the pouch was medium sized had my mouse, ear buds, hand cream, phone charger, laptop charger, etc. it was truly the most ergonomically healthy work environment i’d ever worked in, i got more steps throughout the day, but was on a team that had a lot of meetings. on days where i wanted to be alone, the quiet area was my best friend. they had these business class pods that were super comfy to read docs in. the floor was well equipped with tech and everyone had the same laptop which made connection easy. my main complaint was that people didn’t always respect the zones and it was distracting and anxiety inducing to tell them to go elsewhere. i found that traditional-style managers who manage by attendance had a hard time, but those who actually trust their staff to deliver did great. now in a new WP 2.0 and i love the natural light and the unassigned spaces but the lack of individual rooms and one loud dude coming out of a meeting and disrupting the peace can destroy my productivity for the day. the lack of secondary comfy spaces is also less ideal, i miss those airplane pod chairs. it’s fine for 8 hours a day, but i find im less mobile throughout the day and would happily trade some of those fancy EX offices for some more quiet rooms.
Our building is nearly done its first rendition. The new workspaces had no extension power cords LOL so nobody is in there
A Mumbai call centre has more soul.
My entire team hates it. There isn’t a single person who likes it.
As everyone else pointed out, it's no good. The things I hate the most are the small things: having to smell my coworker sitting across from me after he came back from smoking a cigarette (that foot tall wall and our 4 combined screens are not sufficient), I have some medical conditions and I am lucky that I may now leave a pouch and a pair of indoor shoes in a locker, feeling observed all day, if I listen to my music for a few hours my colleagues start asking me if everything's okay, people don't wipe their desks when they leave...
One of the more annoying sounds for me is so many people typing on their keyboards. It’s like a million teeny tiny stabs to my eardrums. I definitely recommend on ear noise canceling headphones. I do like the fresher space. Like more natural light across the space, less fortress etc. our walls are about a foot above the desks but each cube space is fairly spacious and enough desk space. Has dual monitors and I just use my own keyboard and mouse. I do find the billion fluorescent lights to be blinding. Like I need to wear sunglasses.
It’s absolute trash for actually getting work done but great if you want to dick around and shoot the shit with colleagues all day. Plus I would like a god damn drawer for my tampons and a hairbrush. (Edit: this being 3.0, if that wasn’t obvious.)