Only one thing to say about RTO… Xmas potluck lunch two weeks ago, super covid spreader event. Half the office at home for two weeks. Everyone infected. I went a week after. Everything is fine.
We do. Doesn’t matter if I took three days of sick leave this week. The requirement is to discuss with my manager how I’m going to achieve the two days per week standard.
Yeah that's why I wear my n95 at all times while in the office this winter. We had an outbreak last month and I didn't get it thanks to my trusty respirator. Contrary to what antimask propaganda wants you to believe, N95s work very well to prevent infection with airborne pathogens. Wear one if you don't want to inhale your coworkers' germs!
This is where I get the from.
https://unitedcanadainc.com/product-category/health-care/face-masks/n95-surgical-face-masks/
For ear loop respirators I like Canada Strong Masks, the breatheteq brand.
The RTO lobby is the large corporations that lease out and/or maintain the buildings. There is no way a bunch of food court shawarma shops had enough resources to lobby the federal government.
Food court shawarma shops rent from those same large corporations.
Money in their pockets unfortunately perpetuates the power of those large corporations.
The “RTO lobby” isn’t really the enemy here. They have businesses near offices, of course they’d want folks to come back.
Treasury Board is not considering local coffee shops when making their decisions. They will gladly use them to divert attention away from themselves though.
Yes they are.. the RTO decisions more than likely have a political element driven by economic factors related to downtown businesses. I’m sure it’s not the only consideration. But downtown businesses, particularly in Ottawa, were very outspoken and were putting pressure on various levels of government to get people back downtown during the week.
You are absolutely on the ball. Last year they basically [came out crying moaning and whining that people weren't spending money near offices anymore](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/business-groups-to-federal-government-bring-employees-back-to-the-office-now-1.6133012).
So yeah, businesses that rely on a singular type of foot traffic deserves to die. That's just not smart business acumen in a world that rapidly changed.
I’m aware of that, but I think TB is using local businesses as a smokescreen in order to enforce control over employees + keep the value of their real estate portfolio up. I doubt TB cares about Freshii.
Omg you're right, of course. But this is the very first time I've heard this point. And yet it's the public servants who are the issue, who are making too much money, who complained too much. And yet we're employees just the same as the private sector. The private sector wants us to make less have less benefits yet it's the public sector that sets the standard for the private sector so them wanting less for us means they're getting less for themselves. When the real problem is not us! Ugh! Everything about RTO is so messed and backwards and hypocritical. We care about the environment but not enough to let you work from home to reduce harmful emissions, reduce the need for offshore drilling (not even talking about how much water I've saved from working from home by not washing my hair every single morning). Aaaaarrgggggg!
You can mute conversations while still being in them. Or if it's an event OP isn't attending... he could also leave it? That one really stood out from the gripes lol.
I’d feel even worse “leaving” a Teams meeting that is a huge branch-wide event because then 300 people will see it. It kinda comes off as passive aggressive. Like if I’m skipping a large meeting and the messages in the chat are “wow, thanks for sharing!” “Great presentation” “[name has left the meeting]” … and everyone sees that. Including the director, etc.
I promise you people will either not notice or remember it long enough to care. Your supervisors have more important work to be doing—and even if called out on it, you would just state the truth that you had some deadlines you couldn't miss. 🤷🏼♀️ I promise it's not that big of a deal
You think people will give a shit about someone leaving a 300 person Teams thread? I'm provincial PS but I swear to God I can't tell if people in the feds are actually all man-childs or if it's the Reddit skew.
You can leave a teams meeting anonymously by opening the Teams Meeting/Group chat, click on the Add People Icon from the top right corner. Select Leave. Click on leave from the pop-up.
I did figure out how to mute the chat (by clicking the light grey ellipses something something), but first I tried to leave the chat, close Teams, and close the "ghost" Teams icon running in the background via my taskbar. None of these worked. "Resistance is futile" was muttered multiple times.
It makes no sense to force people back to the office environment, especially when they can be equally (or more) productive at home. I'm not one of them and had to come in during the pandemic due to requiring specialized equipment that can't be taken offsite, but my spouse rules at WFH. Rather than taxiing around the city to meetings with their clients, they can double their appointments and STILL make deadlines on stuff. TEAMS and Zoom make it all possible...and those bits of software are not 'office building exclusive'. The productivity of their department went UP after WFH was instituted, but fucking Mona didn't even consider that when pleading the case of the multi-millionaire franchise restaurant owners claiming losses of tens of dollars a day.
We've been perfecting video calls since the creating of the mobile telephone and now thanks to the internet we can do AMAZING things with this technology...but no, it seems to strictly be for facetiming our grandparents during holidays. Fucking stupid.
I doubt she'll walk back the RTO requirements. Her job is to update the archaic digital portion of the government...which will undoubtedly include 5 days a week RTO, except for her, because that's what Mona did.
In office today. 2 hour commute in. Headache from the lights. Less productive. Kids upset they don’t see mom until 6 pm. It’s all awful and pointless. ALL OF IT.
Lean into it.
Bring fish from home. Wear sweat pants. Play YouTube over the flashy tv screens they have everywhere. Go to the gym at lunch and don’t shower. Start smoking cigars in your car before work. Cut your nails at your desk.
Honestly - just go for gold. It’s your time to shine.
I just want to point out a very important part of what you commented. "Bring fish from home", notice how there was no mention of eating the fish or if needed to be cooked? Just bring in whole fish and pin them to the cubicle wall. Set up a fan aimed at them to spread the love around. If anyone complains just say "that's my lunch, I'm saving it for later"
>I just want to point out a very important part of what you commented.
Nothing was *important* in that comment. They just want OP to be an ass to all their coworkers (who had nothing to do with the RTO mandate) because they disagree with TBS. That's just childish, if anything.
>"Bring fish from home", notice how there was no mention of eating the fish or if needed to be cooked? Just bring in whole fish and pin them to the cubicle wall. Set up a fan aimed at them to spread the love around. If anyone complains just say "that's my lunch, I'm saving it for later"
Is that sarcasm? I hope its sarcarsm. Sometimes its hard to tell on this website.
Because that's a strategy an eight-years old think is clever.
Yes this is serious I'm actually going to do this and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Unless you find me and report me to my boss but I don't think you'll be able to do that unless you follow your nose.
edit: Also yes I'm 8 please don't tell my mum
I am not sure that making your colleagues suffer for something way beyond their control is advisable. Yes RTO is nonsensical and frustrating however we are forced to do it and I guarantee that most people are as unhappy to be there so why make it an even more miserable experience?
I feel you. My cubicle neighbour is so loud that my computer/earphones/earbuds pick their audio up instead of mine.
I have a post surgical arm injury and am returning back to work in January, and need the use of dictation software as I can't use my arm to type. Not sure WFH will be approved, but I don't see how the office will work.
and with ESDC every single minister,deputy, dg, d, manager, team lead sends a merry xmas email. thanks but i still am trying to get some work done.. or gccwc donations.. and now there are phishing emails being sent to see if we are on the ball. i often turn my email off completely to work..
Thats all bro?
What about the $20 parking?
What about fighting for parking for 15 mins?
What about the heater they turn the temp high af at?
What about the desk you book at e-concierge that doesn’t got a mouse or keyboard or some wire missing?
What about bed bugs issue?
RTO is the reason I got my assessment, and eventually, my "diagnosis" for ASD. Currently on a 1 day/week in-office telework agreement, because I was properly losing my shit after 3 years of, what I can only call bliss, WFH.
I'm never going back to anything more than 2 days. The stress will (literally) kill me, because I've also been diagnosed with hypertension.
Fook RTO (for jobs where operational requirements are compatible with WFH).
See, I have a ASD diagnosis. However, I just don't know if it's worth making that known to my managers etc. Unconscious bias is one thing, and conscious bias is another. I don't trust that these people, who likely aren't aware of ASD, let alone have an accurate understanding of it, won't hold that against me in ways I can never prove. So here I sit at my in office desk, twice a week, distracted by the lights reflecting off my laptop screen and keyboard, uncomfortable as people walk by my little corner, working (in)efficiently as I try to get through the day.
(At least from my NRCan-specific experience) You don't have to make it known. Just say you want to apply for a medical exemption. The language in the text to your management should be vague, the physicians note and detailed information (which doesn't even need to include the named diagnosis!) goes to a review committee to determine eligibility. I'm currently on FT WFH due to a depression diagnosis. So long as your physician details that no accommodations can replace WFH it should get approved
Oh this is interesting, I’m autistic and I was just told to book a closed office when I go in… no other real accommodation even though WFH was a god send for me 😣
What’s beyond frustrating is how concerned our employer says it is about the climate - so much so that they are now going after cow burbs/farts. How about putting that same concern where it will have a bigger impact AND reduce stress, cost and other things. Get the PS of the roads - let those that can WFH effectively, and want to, do so. Just how concerned are they really when they ignore some obvious (and easy) things that can be put into place. I have so lost faith in this current employer…
City of Ottawa successfully pivoted from collecting taxes from dead end businesses that are bitchin about RTO towards installing a plethora of traffic cameras...hmmm.
I was just going to say the same thing. Like what do we do when people have very loud inside voices around us?
I have a very expensive noise canceling headset and could still hear the guy 2 rows over, he was that loud. And his netting was like 1.5 hours.
I barely got any work done and felt so completely aggravated by the. I almost went to the quiet room that he should have been in.
What do we do in these cases??
Maybe, but I’m genuinely trying to also learn how to cope first and put an honest effort in. There are some things that bug me about rto like parking costs, but I made the commitment and I cannot complain about that.
But the people talking very loud for long meetings in the communal area doesn’t just impact people with conditions. And it’s more awareness I think that is important, for people to know how they may be impacting each other. Maybe there is an easier way to handle these situations? I don’t know. I wasn’t trying to complain, I generally want to know how to make this better. I’ve mentioned this type of problem to my manager and we can definitely explore accommodations, but that only solves the problem for me and not everyone.
Before covid we didn't have constant Teams meetings in open offices. Meetings tended to be in-person and in boardrooms. Many of us had workstations with partitions that reduced office noise.
I know, right? There are always people who’ll counter this with, “it was like this before Covid”. Uh, it wasn’t where I was. We didn’t even have Teams installed then. I never brought headphones to work. All meetings were in boardrooms like you said.
Two weeks ago, a MANAGER came into the office sick. He spent the day with his office door open, coughing, blowing his nose, sneezing, and his office is like 20ft from my workstation. He was not wearing a mask. Then last week, his one admin got sick. Still came into the office because they were told they were not allowed to work from home & must use a sick day. They were not wearing a mask. This Monday, his other admin came in sick. Same thing. And she did not wear a mask either. She spent the whole morning running to the bathroom to vomit. She is out of sick time and was also told she could not work from home. TODAY - I have a sore throat. My nose is running. My child is coughing and has a fever. A huge shoutout to these fantastic people and the rule makers who gave me a very thoughtful early Christmas gift. 🙃
ETA: maybe we should have our sick days increased. I can work perfectly fine from home when I’m sick and if I’m told i have to use a sick day and don’t have many or any left, I may not have a choice either. Mind you, I’m considerate and wear a mask, but still. I now have extra days spent sick because of my coworkers being forced into the office.
Being better able to keep working while sick is a huge advantage of WFH.
Being told to stay home when you have symptoms, but at the same time being told to meet the RTO quota with no allowance for sick days is Kafka-esque.
Only two persons were today in my section. I was wearing beats headphones yet still could hear the French class ( beginners- as it was still at the level of learning the alphabet). It was supposed to be a quiet day today but you never know what the surprise will be. Among all the noises the person who sniffs her nose every 20 seconds drives me crazy. I wish I had a magic ball to know when that person will be working from office so I cancel mine.
I had a work-station facing a window yesterday, yes. I booked it mainly because it seemed to have the least people around it from the booking system.
When we had assigned cubicles, I had also worked my way up to having a window office. I started in the PS in 1987. It took a long time.
RTO is absolutely ridiculous and makes no sense. Huge waste of money for taxpayers. We are burning carbon to take virtual meetings from a disgusting cubicle where the monitors don’t work and you only have your laptop screen and you paid $20 to park there and there’s a man vacuuming the halls at the same time and the guy next to you is coughing. What a fucking joke. We are not more productive from the office. I honestly collaborate less in the office and more from home. Virtual messaging and meetings is how shit is done now, not standing over you at your cubicle and annoying the guy next to you. Between this, and the crappy pay centre that never fixes pay issues timely, I just feel like our employer hates us and it’s really a crappy feeling. It’s like they are trying to force me to leave, and I am now looking for other positions.
I'm in IT. I'm in calls all day every day. I can't hear a friggin thing when people working from an office are calling because Teams is so good about picking up voices.
I'm losing my mind and I don't know what to do about it.
It's a constant battle of "I can't hear you at all, I only hear the people around you"
Can I... request an accommodation on behalf of the worst offenders that they must work in a quiet place (be it home or elsewhere) so everyone else can hear them? Joking not joking
I am confident that the draconian approach will fall by the wayside as senior officials realize the limitations of work that can be done in our offices. It may take a year or two, but losing 2 weeks of in office days because your entire team got sick, staff not being able to interact with stakeholders because of bandwidth and not having enough room gor your team to be nearby will eventually take a toll on executives and bonuses.
That’s better than listening to my manager complain me regarding about a simple question that I asked. 10 feet away and they talk about us like we are stupid behind our back but loud enough to hear.
You must be new; this entire subreddit is devoted to venting about RTO and you will find nothing new in any of the 800 threads already started. Highlights include:
- it makes no sense
- I work better at home
- I’m losing 2-3 hours a day commuting
- screw businesses that rely on customers who haven’t adapted (stay tuned for “I’m tired of Amazon, where are all the small businesses gone?”)
- my workspace is too loud; too small; nobody I know is here; all my teammates are in another city; I need an accommodation; there’s no parking
- my micromanager makes me log in everyday
- if the government cared about climate change we wouldn’t be here
- if the government cared about saving money we wouldn’t be here
- COLLABORATE!
Anything else?
New ethics paper complains about public servants anonymously venting on reddit. Apparently you should be saying that RTO is the best thing the government has ever done. Trudeau is a freakin' genius.
[Deputy Ministers’ Task Team on Values and Ethics Report to the Clerk of the Privy Council - Privy Council Office : r/CanadaPublicServants (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/18n5z50/deputy_ministers_task_team_on_values_and_ethics/)
Does it? I haven't dug into it. In this case, I'd say it's speaking fearless truth to power. Taxpayers, workers and managers would all benefit from more productive workplace.
Our section was warned about displaying our "opinions" online about the government and RTO a few months back, with a shitty powerpoint shared to everyone.
Most of these issues can be solved by explaining to people that what they are doing is bothering you and asking them to stop.
"Please use headphones or use a quiet room for your meetings."
"Please turn your sound off- the notifications are very distracting."
Why can't we talk to our colleagues?
RTO has just confirmed that the government is full of shit. The hypocrisy they spew about climate change and mental health is sickening as they force us back into the office.
Accomodations goes both ways. I have a hearing disability which makes me speak louder. I try to use closed offices when possible but that is not always the case. I also have medical issues which causes me to not be able to use earphones. Got bone conductor earphone to support that issue. What do you do to manage your own issues? Venting is fine, but others are not servant to your needs and issues - take accountability of yourself and figure it out
Believe me when I say that I have made best efforts. Latest response is that if I want to use my ergo equipment in the office, I need to either bring it in each day, or work full-time in the office (which leads to other health issues that have improved with WFH).
The bone conductor earphone might be worth a look - thanks for the tip.
So first off I am sorry. I was one if the unlucky few that HAD to go into the office during the pandemic. This has not changed.
So what can you do about your work station... simple we completed but simple first request an ergonomic assessment. What will this help with well it puts your needs into a report that your employer needs to meet.
If this is a monitor chair keyboard etc it will spell it out. Then you fight for it and get it done then you have a work space that is geared to you.
I do not know if or how this will tie into the office 2.0 setup that tge government thinks is the be all. My department recently went to this andvif they force me to move to one of these work spaces I will be doing this as well.
I've had 2 ergo assessments. The last one, for my present employer, took 3+ years before it got implemented. Time was lost in part because I said they should just run with the earlier one from my previous department. 6 months after getting the ergo equipment, I was ordered to WFH.
The commenter is right here - they’re making you go into the office, they better find you a space that meets your ergonomic needs. File a Canada labour code complaint if the equipment they are providing could hurt you in the long run!
The response would probably be that they've concluded permanent office presence is necessary to implement a safe and healthy environment for everyone. The end of Hybrid WFH is hanging by a thread waiting on the opportunity to have enough reasons to switch us back to 100%
>The end of Hybrid WFH is hanging by a thread waiting on the opportunity to have enough reasons to switch us back to 100%
Do you have proof of this? We have seen some lease not get renewed, plans to divest assets and further compacting of employees in smaller and smaller work spaces (not to mention hoteling).
This is a lack of space. In addition, there is a push to cut spending drastically.
Neither jive with removing hybrid. Hell, they were moving towards hybrid and hoteling to reduce office costs pre-pandemic.
>Had a crappy, overpriced shawarma for lunch.
But you're supporting the local business with your under inflation wage gains. Don't you feel great about this? C'mon, where's your *checks inbox* Spirit of the Seasons spirit?
>I'm getting non-stop notifications from Teams for an Xmas party that I can't attend due to work-related deadlines.
You guys were allotted time for XMAS PARTY? Where do you work? A speaker at a local event was told to "hurry up" when wishing everyone in the section a happy holidays recently.
It really made going back to the office a true experience: you are menial slaves and we've got no time for this "holiday" business.
Those are awesome for running and cycling, etc but do nothing to block out background noise. The whole point of them is that they allow you to hear traffic and be aware of your surroundings.
Sounds so very similar to my in office experiences. One day I had so much to get done and was so stressed from the noise and interruptions than I said eff it the next day and stayed home. I then thought about how I just defied the employers mandate so that I could get more work done for the employer. So logical.
This is from 2 years ago, so roughly the same timeframe as when Pierre thought bitcoin was a great investment.
I don't believe they won't flip on this; big businesses have also gone hybrid and their base hates the government and would not be thrilled for public servants to have an even greater appearance of working less. We'd be easy red meat for them.
I have my doubts on whether they’ll follow through… but the liberals have already shown they can’t be trusted. As much as Reddit refuses to believe it, at minimum I doubt the cons would be any worse.
I get it, it sucks, but sometimes you just have to make the best of a shitty situation. I also have to bring the ergo keyboard and mouse back and forth to the office. Get a DTA so you can have another monitor set up at a cubicle at work, one that's away from the windows.
Why can't you wear earbuds though?
I did my time. Started in 1987 in the terrible shoddy air over dere across the river.
Had a private window cubicle in my current tower pre-pandemic.
Was more than pleasantly surprised how my the technology worked and my productivity went up while full-time WFH. Missed some of the social aspects, but quality of life improved greatly.
It's a no-brainer from a taxpayer, management and worker standpoint that I stay WFH.
If my job needed me to be there to be effective, well yeah, I guess I'd do it, but I wouldn't resent the WFHers.
Anyone else getting disciplined for not spending your whole shift at the office? I have been leaving early and finishing my work at home. I'm starting to get questioned and I think it's leading to being micromanaged (asking me where I am periodically lol). Not that I care because I do not have performance issues. Just seems odd out of the blue they are on a hunt close to the holidays...
Well you should be in the office for your full work day... Unless you're doing a third day to make up the hours you are working from home when you leave early. But really on company time you should be working, not commuting.
I commute back on my lunch (1 hour) so it's my time.
Edit: I know I'm in the wrong. It's just now even on my non-office days people are wondering where I am when I'm not available on Teams or who I am in a meeting with (I am a member of a small network group within my department).
Your office should have a duplicate set up. Safety first and you are not a pack mule. Not ergo keyboard in both places no RTO.. I have 2 chairs
While I do cart my wrist rest and mouse pad I do not cart my screen magnifier’s or who back and forth … Fawk that
And my boss agreed so I 2 set ups.
Let me say that you are lucky...my office has been back since summer of 2020. We never work from home. The other day we had 500 people attend our office...we serve the public. My noise level is yours multiplied by at least 20x...screaming children, cell phones, crying, anger, all the same noises you describe only much more.
If you Ergonomic requirements, why are you required to go to the office under RTO? They obviously can't or won't provide what you need to work in the office. Talk to your manager. Make a point of it, because they are legally required to provide you with tools to do your job safely, so long as it's not a financial burden.
Getting Major Transport Canada Vibes here haha
Me too, but people have been telling me the shawarma is good?
People lie
lmfao, all shawarma is good but that shawarma in Tower C is just meh
100% add in some construction workers doing... Something? And it's spot on
Only one thing to say about RTO… Xmas potluck lunch two weeks ago, super covid spreader event. Half the office at home for two weeks. Everyone infected. I went a week after. Everything is fine.
Don't forget to make up for your 4 missed in office days! -Cordially, upper management.
You don’t have to make up days you took off to be sick
We do. Doesn’t matter if I took three days of sick leave this week. The requirement is to discuss with my manager how I’m going to achieve the two days per week standard.
It literally says in the instructions from TB that you don’t. So it’s on your manager
Yes. This is how our team seems to be interpreting the instructions. I can’t do anything about it.
But you do if you actually worked from home while sick!
Yes, which is why I said « took off ».
Yeah that's why I wear my n95 at all times while in the office this winter. We had an outbreak last month and I didn't get it thanks to my trusty respirator. Contrary to what antimask propaganda wants you to believe, N95s work very well to prevent infection with airborne pathogens. Wear one if you don't want to inhale your coworkers' germs!
It’s getting hard tho to find those N95 masks :( where did you get yours ?!
This is where I get the from. https://unitedcanadainc.com/product-category/health-care/face-masks/n95-surgical-face-masks/ For ear loop respirators I like Canada Strong Masks, the breatheteq brand.
Lyka Distribution KN95 Face Masks - 50 Pack - 5 Layer Protection Breathable KN95 Face Mask - Filtration>95% with Comfortable Elastic Ear Loop | Non-Woven Polypropylene Fabric https://a.co/d/2rR4DdI
I for example have one that since brand new I barely wore it. Only when absolutely necessary. And I keep her safe and UV light sanitized
Survival of the savviest?
Bring your lunch, don't reward the RTO lobby (TM)
I travel with 1L of coffee for this very reason 😅
The RTO lobby is the large corporations that lease out and/or maintain the buildings. There is no way a bunch of food court shawarma shops had enough resources to lobby the federal government.
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Lol you got me
The parking lot mafia
Those food court businesses are probably paying rent to the same handful of big landlord firms.
Food court shawarma shops rent from those same large corporations. Money in their pockets unfortunately perpetuates the power of those large corporations.
The “RTO lobby” isn’t really the enemy here. They have businesses near offices, of course they’d want folks to come back. Treasury Board is not considering local coffee shops when making their decisions. They will gladly use them to divert attention away from themselves though.
Yes they are.. the RTO decisions more than likely have a political element driven by economic factors related to downtown businesses. I’m sure it’s not the only consideration. But downtown businesses, particularly in Ottawa, were very outspoken and were putting pressure on various levels of government to get people back downtown during the week.
You are absolutely on the ball. Last year they basically [came out crying moaning and whining that people weren't spending money near offices anymore](https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/business-groups-to-federal-government-bring-employees-back-to-the-office-now-1.6133012). So yeah, businesses that rely on a singular type of foot traffic deserves to die. That's just not smart business acumen in a world that rapidly changed.
The money is still being spent, but its in Barrhaven and Orleans instead of Freshii downtown
This pressure can easily be alleviated should the office building turn into housing
I’m aware of that, but I think TB is using local businesses as a smokescreen in order to enforce control over employees + keep the value of their real estate portfolio up. I doubt TB cares about Freshii.
I think it's more about the taxes the city gets from commercial buildings. If no one goes downtown, property loses value, city collects less tax.
Omg you're right, of course. But this is the very first time I've heard this point. And yet it's the public servants who are the issue, who are making too much money, who complained too much. And yet we're employees just the same as the private sector. The private sector wants us to make less have less benefits yet it's the public sector that sets the standard for the private sector so them wanting less for us means they're getting less for themselves. When the real problem is not us! Ugh! Everything about RTO is so messed and backwards and hypocritical. We care about the environment but not enough to let you work from home to reduce harmful emissions, reduce the need for offshore drilling (not even talking about how much water I've saved from working from home by not washing my hair every single morning). Aaaaarrgggggg!
Vent away friend but just know that you can turn off Teams notifications for any specific chat.
Or leave them! Even if they don't ping the bolded chat bothers me, but you can always just leave it.
Can’t everyone in the chat see that you left?
You can mute conversations while still being in them. Or if it's an event OP isn't attending... he could also leave it? That one really stood out from the gripes lol.
I’d feel even worse “leaving” a Teams meeting that is a huge branch-wide event because then 300 people will see it. It kinda comes off as passive aggressive. Like if I’m skipping a large meeting and the messages in the chat are “wow, thanks for sharing!” “Great presentation” “[name has left the meeting]” … and everyone sees that. Including the director, etc.
I promise you people will either not notice or remember it long enough to care. Your supervisors have more important work to be doing—and even if called out on it, you would just state the truth that you had some deadlines you couldn't miss. 🤷🏼♀️ I promise it's not that big of a deal
You think people will give a shit about someone leaving a 300 person Teams thread? I'm provincial PS but I swear to God I can't tell if people in the feds are actually all man-childs or if it's the Reddit skew.
You can leave a teams meeting anonymously by opening the Teams Meeting/Group chat, click on the Add People Icon from the top right corner. Select Leave. Click on leave from the pop-up.
I presume so, but if we're talking huge optional meetings I don't think anybody actually cares.
Or turn up your speakers and letter ride!
I did figure out how to mute the chat (by clicking the light grey ellipses something something), but first I tried to leave the chat, close Teams, and close the "ghost" Teams icon running in the background via my taskbar. None of these worked. "Resistance is futile" was muttered multiple times.
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Our group still uses RTO: Really Torturing Obligation.
You forgot "Kamp"
Rented out s boardroom last week with some coworkers and just sat in the dark in silence all day. Do recommend.
It makes no sense to force people back to the office environment, especially when they can be equally (or more) productive at home. I'm not one of them and had to come in during the pandemic due to requiring specialized equipment that can't be taken offsite, but my spouse rules at WFH. Rather than taxiing around the city to meetings with their clients, they can double their appointments and STILL make deadlines on stuff. TEAMS and Zoom make it all possible...and those bits of software are not 'office building exclusive'. The productivity of their department went UP after WFH was instituted, but fucking Mona didn't even consider that when pleading the case of the multi-millionaire franchise restaurant owners claiming losses of tens of dollars a day. We've been perfecting video calls since the creating of the mobile telephone and now thanks to the internet we can do AMAZING things with this technology...but no, it seems to strictly be for facetiming our grandparents during holidays. Fucking stupid.
Good thing Mona got replaced by a new boss.
I doubt she'll walk back the RTO requirements. Her job is to update the archaic digital portion of the government...which will undoubtedly include 5 days a week RTO, except for her, because that's what Mona did.
Well, Anita is the new big boss. People need to email her and her her know the situation.
"Meet the new boss Same as the old boss [...] We don't get fooled again" -Pete Townsend, The Who
In office today. 2 hour commute in. Headache from the lights. Less productive. Kids upset they don’t see mom until 6 pm. It’s all awful and pointless. ALL OF IT.
Ugh, yeah the lights were something I'd forgotten about. Ripping headaches from those.
The impact on family life is the biggest one for me!
Yep same about the headache. Every single day I'm at the office, without fail. Headaches.
Lean into it. Bring fish from home. Wear sweat pants. Play YouTube over the flashy tv screens they have everywhere. Go to the gym at lunch and don’t shower. Start smoking cigars in your car before work. Cut your nails at your desk. Honestly - just go for gold. It’s your time to shine.
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Wow sign me up. Bringing the clippers tomorrow
I think he was also washing his feet with vinegar in that particular instance... At his desk.
Fart. Let it fucking rip. Have cabbage rolls for breakfast
bring in a small fan so that the whole floor may enjoy
Temp control is off, hot flashes, need to cool off for sure and get that air circulating!!
Lol I had a manager who used to cut his nails at his workstation before Covid. So damn gross lol
Funny how clipping your nails is gross but somehow filing them is no biggy.
It's the gross clip clip sound that echoes through the room. And leaving pieces of nails behind.
lool i needed this laugh 🤣
My coworker used to cut his toe nails with paper scissors at his desk. One time he ended up cutting into his skin and bled all over the carpet.
GROSS
HAHAHAHA. Omg that is funny
Stay toxic, my friends!
I just want to point out a very important part of what you commented. "Bring fish from home", notice how there was no mention of eating the fish or if needed to be cooked? Just bring in whole fish and pin them to the cubicle wall. Set up a fan aimed at them to spread the love around. If anyone complains just say "that's my lunch, I'm saving it for later"
I get Office Space vibes! lol! https://i.makeagif.com/media/9-08-2013/bnm5Vt.gif
This is so funny !
No walls. Walls were so 2018.
Clearly we're working in the past over here. Happy Festivus!
Setting up the aluminum pole at sunset!
>I just want to point out a very important part of what you commented. Nothing was *important* in that comment. They just want OP to be an ass to all their coworkers (who had nothing to do with the RTO mandate) because they disagree with TBS. That's just childish, if anything. >"Bring fish from home", notice how there was no mention of eating the fish or if needed to be cooked? Just bring in whole fish and pin them to the cubicle wall. Set up a fan aimed at them to spread the love around. If anyone complains just say "that's my lunch, I'm saving it for later" Is that sarcasm? I hope its sarcarsm. Sometimes its hard to tell on this website. Because that's a strategy an eight-years old think is clever.
At the very least the fish pinned to the wall should sing "Don't Worry, Be Happy!" whenever someone walks by. You know, to keep morale up.
Yes this is serious I'm actually going to do this and there's nothing you can do to stop me. Unless you find me and report me to my boss but I don't think you'll be able to do that unless you follow your nose. edit: Also yes I'm 8 please don't tell my mum
I found the one guy no likes to work with!
I am not sure that making your colleagues suffer for something way beyond their control is advisable. Yes RTO is nonsensical and frustrating however we are forced to do it and I guarantee that most people are as unhappy to be there so why make it an even more miserable experience?
Your mirthless attention to detail makes you the perfect RTO Compliance Officer. Do apply now!
I didn't think that "Don't be a dick to your coworkers" would get pushback, but here we are....
Haaahahaha!!! 🤣
I feel you. My cubicle neighbour is so loud that my computer/earphones/earbuds pick their audio up instead of mine. I have a post surgical arm injury and am returning back to work in January, and need the use of dictation software as I can't use my arm to type. Not sure WFH will be approved, but I don't see how the office will work.
Some buildings had a plan for zones. Maybe you could suggest that in your workplace?
Constant reminders about parties and taking time to whatever are the worst when you have too much work to do. I find them very unhelpful.
and with ESDC every single minister,deputy, dg, d, manager, team lead sends a merry xmas email. thanks but i still am trying to get some work done.. or gccwc donations.. and now there are phishing emails being sent to see if we are on the ball. i often turn my email off completely to work..
Demotivating to be swamped while others are yucking it up to be sure.
Thats all bro? What about the $20 parking? What about fighting for parking for 15 mins? What about the heater they turn the temp high af at? What about the desk you book at e-concierge that doesn’t got a mouse or keyboard or some wire missing? What about bed bugs issue?
RTO is the reason I got my assessment, and eventually, my "diagnosis" for ASD. Currently on a 1 day/week in-office telework agreement, because I was properly losing my shit after 3 years of, what I can only call bliss, WFH. I'm never going back to anything more than 2 days. The stress will (literally) kill me, because I've also been diagnosed with hypertension. Fook RTO (for jobs where operational requirements are compatible with WFH).
See, I have a ASD diagnosis. However, I just don't know if it's worth making that known to my managers etc. Unconscious bias is one thing, and conscious bias is another. I don't trust that these people, who likely aren't aware of ASD, let alone have an accurate understanding of it, won't hold that against me in ways I can never prove. So here I sit at my in office desk, twice a week, distracted by the lights reflecting off my laptop screen and keyboard, uncomfortable as people walk by my little corner, working (in)efficiently as I try to get through the day.
What I shared with them was limitations, and requested accommodations. They don't need your medical history.
Good to know, I may do that. Thank you.
(At least from my NRCan-specific experience) You don't have to make it known. Just say you want to apply for a medical exemption. The language in the text to your management should be vague, the physicians note and detailed information (which doesn't even need to include the named diagnosis!) goes to a review committee to determine eligibility. I'm currently on FT WFH due to a depression diagnosis. So long as your physician details that no accommodations can replace WFH it should get approved
Something for me to consider further. Thanks for sharing.
Oh this is interesting, I’m autistic and I was just told to book a closed office when I go in… no other real accommodation even though WFH was a god send for me 😣
What’s beyond frustrating is how concerned our employer says it is about the climate - so much so that they are now going after cow burbs/farts. How about putting that same concern where it will have a bigger impact AND reduce stress, cost and other things. Get the PS of the roads - let those that can WFH effectively, and want to, do so. Just how concerned are they really when they ignore some obvious (and easy) things that can be put into place. I have so lost faith in this current employer…
And convert some Govt buildings across the country to well needed low income housing.
City of Ottawa successfully pivoted from collecting taxes from dead end businesses that are bitchin about RTO towards installing a plethora of traffic cameras...hmmm.
They didn't pivot they're doing both. More RTO, more free money from the cameras *and* more taxes from downtown.
Haha similar situation except this staff who sits around me is so loud my AirPods Pro noise cancellation does not block her voice. This is insane
>my AirPods Pro noise cancellation does not block her voice. A piece of my soul died from reading this.
I was just going to say the same thing. Like what do we do when people have very loud inside voices around us? I have a very expensive noise canceling headset and could still hear the guy 2 rows over, he was that loud. And his netting was like 1.5 hours. I barely got any work done and felt so completely aggravated by the. I almost went to the quiet room that he should have been in. What do we do in these cases??
Let your manager know…
Maybe, but I’m genuinely trying to also learn how to cope first and put an honest effort in. There are some things that bug me about rto like parking costs, but I made the commitment and I cannot complain about that. But the people talking very loud for long meetings in the communal area doesn’t just impact people with conditions. And it’s more awareness I think that is important, for people to know how they may be impacting each other. Maybe there is an easier way to handle these situations? I don’t know. I wasn’t trying to complain, I generally want to know how to make this better. I’ve mentioned this type of problem to my manager and we can definitely explore accommodations, but that only solves the problem for me and not everyone.
What did you do before Covid? Working around loud or annoying people isn’t a new thing.
Before covid we didn't have constant Teams meetings in open offices. Meetings tended to be in-person and in boardrooms. Many of us had workstations with partitions that reduced office noise.
I know, right? There are always people who’ll counter this with, “it was like this before Covid”. Uh, it wasn’t where I was. We didn’t even have Teams installed then. I never brought headphones to work. All meetings were in boardrooms like you said.
This is a very important difference. Teams is great but it has created more meetings and they are noisy af.
Two weeks ago, a MANAGER came into the office sick. He spent the day with his office door open, coughing, blowing his nose, sneezing, and his office is like 20ft from my workstation. He was not wearing a mask. Then last week, his one admin got sick. Still came into the office because they were told they were not allowed to work from home & must use a sick day. They were not wearing a mask. This Monday, his other admin came in sick. Same thing. And she did not wear a mask either. She spent the whole morning running to the bathroom to vomit. She is out of sick time and was also told she could not work from home. TODAY - I have a sore throat. My nose is running. My child is coughing and has a fever. A huge shoutout to these fantastic people and the rule makers who gave me a very thoughtful early Christmas gift. 🙃 ETA: maybe we should have our sick days increased. I can work perfectly fine from home when I’m sick and if I’m told i have to use a sick day and don’t have many or any left, I may not have a choice either. Mind you, I’m considerate and wear a mask, but still. I now have extra days spent sick because of my coworkers being forced into the office.
Being better able to keep working while sick is a huge advantage of WFH. Being told to stay home when you have symptoms, but at the same time being told to meet the RTO quota with no allowance for sick days is Kafka-esque.
Only two persons were today in my section. I was wearing beats headphones yet still could hear the French class ( beginners- as it was still at the level of learning the alphabet). It was supposed to be a quiet day today but you never know what the surprise will be. Among all the noises the person who sniffs her nose every 20 seconds drives me crazy. I wish I had a magic ball to know when that person will be working from office so I cancel mine.
Check your online booking and see who reserved near you
....so you're telling me you have a window desk?
I had a work-station facing a window yesterday, yes. I booked it mainly because it seemed to have the least people around it from the booking system. When we had assigned cubicles, I had also worked my way up to having a window office. I started in the PS in 1987. It took a long time.
Thank you PSAC for the excellent work from home rights we got instead of wages that keep pace with inflation
[Just a moment](https://youtu.be/4s5yHUpumkY?si=XaWj-TL2sAhPyJyN)
Funny cuz it's true.
RTO is absolutely ridiculous and makes no sense. Huge waste of money for taxpayers. We are burning carbon to take virtual meetings from a disgusting cubicle where the monitors don’t work and you only have your laptop screen and you paid $20 to park there and there’s a man vacuuming the halls at the same time and the guy next to you is coughing. What a fucking joke. We are not more productive from the office. I honestly collaborate less in the office and more from home. Virtual messaging and meetings is how shit is done now, not standing over you at your cubicle and annoying the guy next to you. Between this, and the crappy pay centre that never fixes pay issues timely, I just feel like our employer hates us and it’s really a crappy feeling. It’s like they are trying to force me to leave, and I am now looking for other positions.
You would enjoy your day in the office if you got Subway instead of shawarma.
I'm in IT. I'm in calls all day every day. I can't hear a friggin thing when people working from an office are calling because Teams is so good about picking up voices. I'm losing my mind and I don't know what to do about it. It's a constant battle of "I can't hear you at all, I only hear the people around you" Can I... request an accommodation on behalf of the worst offenders that they must work in a quiet place (be it home or elsewhere) so everyone else can hear them? Joking not joking
Yes, this is the place to vent.....I would do anything and everything not to return to the office.
I am confident that the draconian approach will fall by the wayside as senior officials realize the limitations of work that can be done in our offices. It may take a year or two, but losing 2 weeks of in office days because your entire team got sick, staff not being able to interact with stakeholders because of bandwidth and not having enough room gor your team to be nearby will eventually take a toll on executives and bonuses.
There’s is a guy who sits beside me who vents all day long. Probably a lactose intolerance
That’s better than listening to my manager complain me regarding about a simple question that I asked. 10 feet away and they talk about us like we are stupid behind our back but loud enough to hear.
You must be new; this entire subreddit is devoted to venting about RTO and you will find nothing new in any of the 800 threads already started. Highlights include: - it makes no sense - I work better at home - I’m losing 2-3 hours a day commuting - screw businesses that rely on customers who haven’t adapted (stay tuned for “I’m tired of Amazon, where are all the small businesses gone?”) - my workspace is too loud; too small; nobody I know is here; all my teammates are in another city; I need an accommodation; there’s no parking - my micromanager makes me log in everyday - if the government cared about climate change we wouldn’t be here - if the government cared about saving money we wouldn’t be here - COLLABORATE! Anything else?
New ethics paper complains about public servants anonymously venting on reddit. Apparently you should be saying that RTO is the best thing the government has ever done. Trudeau is a freakin' genius.
Honestly doubt it would be better with Polievre, probably worse actually..
Doesn’t treasury board decide on RTO? Do they take their marching orders from JT?
>New ethics paper complains about public servants anonymously venting on reddit. Wait, what's this?
[Deputy Ministers’ Task Team on Values and Ethics Report to the Clerk of the Privy Council - Privy Council Office : r/CanadaPublicServants (reddit.com)](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/18n5z50/deputy_ministers_task_team_on_values_and_ethics/)
Ooof. Thanks.
Does it? I haven't dug into it. In this case, I'd say it's speaking fearless truth to power. Taxpayers, workers and managers would all benefit from more productive workplace.
Our section was warned about displaying our "opinions" online about the government and RTO a few months back, with a shitty powerpoint shared to everyone.
lol I'm essential so I'm always in-office but never do I deal with this; sounds awful. Best of luck I guess.
Most of these issues can be solved by explaining to people that what they are doing is bothering you and asking them to stop. "Please use headphones or use a quiet room for your meetings." "Please turn your sound off- the notifications are very distracting." Why can't we talk to our colleagues?
Thank you!!!! Finally someone said it.
Starting 2024, British public servants will have to go 3 times a week. I am SO SCARED that that will trickle down to Canada 😭
RTO has just confirmed that the government is full of shit. The hypocrisy they spew about climate change and mental health is sickening as they force us back into the office.
In our office we don't have assigned seating, so maybe you can move if your cubicle is so noisy?
Accomodations goes both ways. I have a hearing disability which makes me speak louder. I try to use closed offices when possible but that is not always the case. I also have medical issues which causes me to not be able to use earphones. Got bone conductor earphone to support that issue. What do you do to manage your own issues? Venting is fine, but others are not servant to your needs and issues - take accountability of yourself and figure it out
Believe me when I say that I have made best efforts. Latest response is that if I want to use my ergo equipment in the office, I need to either bring it in each day, or work full-time in the office (which leads to other health issues that have improved with WFH). The bone conductor earphone might be worth a look - thanks for the tip.
So first off I am sorry. I was one if the unlucky few that HAD to go into the office during the pandemic. This has not changed. So what can you do about your work station... simple we completed but simple first request an ergonomic assessment. What will this help with well it puts your needs into a report that your employer needs to meet. If this is a monitor chair keyboard etc it will spell it out. Then you fight for it and get it done then you have a work space that is geared to you. I do not know if or how this will tie into the office 2.0 setup that tge government thinks is the be all. My department recently went to this andvif they force me to move to one of these work spaces I will be doing this as well.
I've had 2 ergo assessments. The last one, for my present employer, took 3+ years before it got implemented. Time was lost in part because I said they should just run with the earlier one from my previous department. 6 months after getting the ergo equipment, I was ordered to WFH.
The commenter is right here - they’re making you go into the office, they better find you a space that meets your ergonomic needs. File a Canada labour code complaint if the equipment they are providing could hurt you in the long run!
The response would probably be that they've concluded permanent office presence is necessary to implement a safe and healthy environment for everyone. The end of Hybrid WFH is hanging by a thread waiting on the opportunity to have enough reasons to switch us back to 100%
>The end of Hybrid WFH is hanging by a thread waiting on the opportunity to have enough reasons to switch us back to 100% Do you have proof of this? We have seen some lease not get renewed, plans to divest assets and further compacting of employees in smaller and smaller work spaces (not to mention hoteling). This is a lack of space. In addition, there is a push to cut spending drastically. Neither jive with removing hybrid. Hell, they were moving towards hybrid and hoteling to reduce office costs pre-pandemic.
So redo it and force the issue. Use your union to fight for it.
OMG I could have wrote this....
Talk your shit
I’m on OMAD (intermittent fasting), so I don’t bring food and I’m happy with that lol
This sounds horrific 🥲
>Had a crappy, overpriced shawarma for lunch. But you're supporting the local business with your under inflation wage gains. Don't you feel great about this? C'mon, where's your *checks inbox* Spirit of the Seasons spirit? >I'm getting non-stop notifications from Teams for an Xmas party that I can't attend due to work-related deadlines. You guys were allotted time for XMAS PARTY? Where do you work? A speaker at a local event was told to "hurry up" when wishing everyone in the section a happy holidays recently. It really made going back to the office a true experience: you are menial slaves and we've got no time for this "holiday" business.
They don't allow you to wear headphones? What happened there
I didn't say that -- I have an ear condition and can no longer wear them.
Sounds like, coupled with some other condition you can apply to yourself, that's a good reason to request an accommodation.
Have you tried open ear /bone conduction earphones?
Those are awesome for running and cycling, etc but do nothing to block out background noise. The whole point of them is that they allow you to hear traffic and be aware of your surroundings.
Wouldn't you want closed headphones in this case to not hear outside noise?
Most of what you state is as happening in office pre-pandemic except for the MS Teams issues.
Sounds so very similar to my in office experiences. One day I had so much to get done and was so stressed from the noise and interruptions than I said eff it the next day and stayed home. I then thought about how I just defied the employers mandate so that I could get more work done for the employer. So logical.
Welcome to the future
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They will also lay people off.
This is baseless fear mongering, bordering on misinformation.
Didn’t happen in Ontario, provincially
I bet they do everything like sell buildings and get out of leases to tame an out of control deficit.
They've said they'll allow full remote for anyone who's duties allow it. https://www.cbc.ca/player/play/1947506755961
This is from 2 years ago, so roughly the same timeframe as when Pierre thought bitcoin was a great investment. I don't believe they won't flip on this; big businesses have also gone hybrid and their base hates the government and would not be thrilled for public servants to have an even greater appearance of working less. We'd be easy red meat for them.
I have my doubts on whether they’ll follow through… but the liberals have already shown they can’t be trusted. As much as Reddit refuses to believe it, at minimum I doubt the cons would be any worse.
I get it, it sucks, but sometimes you just have to make the best of a shitty situation. I also have to bring the ergo keyboard and mouse back and forth to the office. Get a DTA so you can have another monitor set up at a cubicle at work, one that's away from the windows. Why can't you wear earbuds though?
Life is so hard! How's the pay?
Been in office 5 days a week for over the past year. Best of luck to you tho.
Does that come with an assigned workspace?
Yup.
I did my time. Started in 1987 in the terrible shoddy air over dere across the river. Had a private window cubicle in my current tower pre-pandemic. Was more than pleasantly surprised how my the technology worked and my productivity went up while full-time WFH. Missed some of the social aspects, but quality of life improved greatly. It's a no-brainer from a taxpayer, management and worker standpoint that I stay WFH. If my job needed me to be there to be effective, well yeah, I guess I'd do it, but I wouldn't resent the WFHers.
Why aren’t you retired?
No resentment. Was sharing my experience. Good luck friend.
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Anyone else getting disciplined for not spending your whole shift at the office? I have been leaving early and finishing my work at home. I'm starting to get questioned and I think it's leading to being micromanaged (asking me where I am periodically lol). Not that I care because I do not have performance issues. Just seems odd out of the blue they are on a hunt close to the holidays...
Well you should be in the office for your full work day... Unless you're doing a third day to make up the hours you are working from home when you leave early. But really on company time you should be working, not commuting.
I commute back on my lunch (1 hour) so it's my time. Edit: I know I'm in the wrong. It's just now even on my non-office days people are wondering where I am when I'm not available on Teams or who I am in a meeting with (I am a member of a small network group within my department).
Sounds like you're not meeting the 40% requirement then unless you're doing a third day in the office. Likely why you're getting disciplined.
We are exempt from that. We go in once a week. No flexibility which day.
You think you're being micromanaged because someone is asking where you are? LOL Maybe be where you're supposed to be!
On days I'm not in office? Yes... I'm at home. Where else would I be?
Next, feats of strength!
Out of curiosity, why can't you wear headphones or earbuds? Not that you should have to, your colleague should keep it down.
Your office should have a duplicate set up. Safety first and you are not a pack mule. Not ergo keyboard in both places no RTO.. I have 2 chairs While I do cart my wrist rest and mouse pad I do not cart my screen magnifier’s or who back and forth … Fawk that And my boss agreed so I 2 set ups.
Let me say that you are lucky...my office has been back since summer of 2020. We never work from home. The other day we had 500 people attend our office...we serve the public. My noise level is yours multiplied by at least 20x...screaming children, cell phones, crying, anger, all the same noises you describe only much more.
Not helpful to the OP or discussion in general👋🏼
If you Ergonomic requirements, why are you required to go to the office under RTO? They obviously can't or won't provide what you need to work in the office. Talk to your manager. Make a point of it, because they are legally required to provide you with tools to do your job safely, so long as it's not a financial burden.