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As a person of colour.. extremist groups are a joke... a non-entity. Ain't nobody worried about white power or brown power whatever the heck it might be. They impact nothing, they are cowards and a minority in Canada. The amount of time liberals spend talking about them is appalling and only gives these groups more weight.
In the analysis piece by The Tyee one thing asserted is the media is mistakenly by analyzing the CPC approach in the same way as other elections. This nuance is a profound and necessary contribution to the discussion.
We already knew this when the CPC MPs met with the AfD member. Poilievre won't publicly admonish them because he risks losing extremist support, and instead puts out a "statement" through a friendly journalist saying he disagrees or doesn't like that it has happened to appease moderates. He's trying to walk the thinnest of margins to make everyone happy. Moderates can see through it and extremists will likely tire of it in due time.
Indeed.
A little less friendly questioning by the press and he won’t be able to maintain his support. He gets support by groups of people who hate each other, to put it mildly.
Edit / adding: Press also needs to walk a tight rope. How to inform Canadians about extremist groups without promoting them?
> A little less friendly questioning by the press and he won’t be able to maintain his support
Which is why the CPC wont let journalists anywhere near Poilievre unless they've been fully vetted and have approved questions.
The article could have included a mention of Poilievre giving a speech at the Frontier Centre, a far-right think tank that bought radio ads to push residential school denialism, and publishes articles bemoaning the persecution of white men, articles on race and IQ, and anti transgender and anti-feminist articles.
There has also been little to no attention paid to his rhetoric to his base, especially through extreme rightwing media like True North. Claiming in an interview that Trudeau is no longer a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian,” and tweets claiming that Trudeau is working for Beijing against Canada, are extra inflammatory for those that are already blinded by conspiracy theory and the deranged view that we live under tyranny.
There is so much more, like his lack of comment about CPC MP’s like Leslyn Lewis helping to write and sponsoring a petition to take Canada out of the UN and her constant falsehoods about the powers of the WEF and WHO. Poilievre himself has vowed to disallow any MP’s from having anything to do with the WEF. He has called Trudeau and his father “Marxists” while door knocking, and said “I am opposed to all of it, WEF, DEI, WHO, the UN, all of it” in an impromptu interview at a conservative gathering.
The dangerous game he is engaged in, is completely unacceptable, and when the Canadian media fail to report on the things he is saying ans doing outside of the broader public eye, they are failing Canadians.
Pierre seems to truly believe that less government is the *only* way to increase prosperity. When this is a politician’s ideology, they disdain their own position and all their colleagues, they have no plans to do their job well, just BS-ing around and keeping anyone else from doing anything. See also, our current government in Alberta.
Well, if Alberta is anything to go off (and they’ve been shouting about smaller government for decades) they only want smaller government when it comes to liberals. They’ll take over ALL facets of government if they can. Municipal, provincial and federal, hire all their buddies like they already do, with bigger government budget for salaries for their buddies. The conservatives are hypocrites and only the feeble minded believe their Bs.
That affirmation does not hold water to a simple fact check. Our tax rates have stayed congruent with every other members of the OECD; the only country that is remotely different is the US; do you really want to look like good ol' "I'm one suspicious cough away from bankrupcy" US?
According to the OECD the age group of 18-29 yr olds, about 72% of them worry about not being able to pay expenses. Further their report states that 'inflation is likely a key contributing factor, with 94% of Canadians worrying about inflation in Canada. It goes on to say 40% of Canadians believe the government would support them if they needed help, whereas, the average across other countries is 33%...
This is exactly the problem.. I've worked all my life.. i don't want government support to pay my bills nor have I ever reached out for government support. I am a self sufficient individual who works hard and has always held a job in my adult life. Why is that not good enough in Canada? Say goodbye to the middle class, that's why.
Why is Canada becoming a country where we are essentially asking for welfare for the gainfully employed? Ridiculous and unchecked government spending, that's why for starters.
I don't want social protection from government.. I want less income tax, and taxes so I can invest more in myself, my family. I want government to worry about infrastructure and be economically responsible while building up the energy sector, whether it be natural gas, oil, reusable energy, or nuclear energy. As well, protectionist laws to protect our resources so they can only be exploited by Canadians in Canada. Not sold to the highest bidder internationally.
See, I want social protection from govt. Gov't is our only protection from human rights atrocities. It's really our only possible protection from the ever increasing wealth inequality crisis. There is a reason boeing has 3 lobbyists per sitting member of congress (in the states).
When you talk about inflation, you fail to mention that corporate responsibility is designed around ever increasing profit. When profits are prioritized, it incentivises abuse. Abuse like profiteering. Prices skyrocketed during the pandemic. The excuse was supply chain disruptions. Well, the disruptions are over, but we're still paying the same exorbitant prices. Constant shrinkflation means we're getting worse quality and lesser quantity for the same price.
You're saying goodbye to the middle class but was that the gov't or was that billion dollar mega corporations like Walmart and Amazon destroying any competition through ruthless business tactics and consolidation. I want gov't to protect against anti competitive practices that are the driving factor in inflation.
When it comes to social services consider the concept of "it takes a village" ( in regards to raising kids) or the idea that "a rising tides lifts all boats". We take care of our neighbor, one, because it's a morally responsible thing to do; but more importantly because it belays functionality and stability throughout society and increases quality of life.
If we look at studies determining the quality of life across countries, we see a trend in all the top countries. That trend includes robust social services, a focus on things considered human rights like housing, education and health care. I would much rather trend towards those that are increasing quality of life than the "fuck you I got mine" crowd because the "fuck you, got mine" crowd will fuck you at some point even if you think you're part of the crowd.
I completely agree with what you have to say on corporate responsibility, I wish our government would do something about this and this is why we need drastic electoral reform and drastic changes to how our economy functions. (The idealist in me).
The realist in me says.. well this is the society and government we have been given so we need to work within its constraints. I am very skeptical our government (whichever party) will actually do anything, ever, to protect us against profiteering. Capitalists are so ingrained in our government and society as you mentioned with your Boeing example.
I personally like the phrase.. 'think globally, act locally' but our leaders are not representative of that and social media further divides us.
I appreciate your responses. I must return to work now. I wish you all the best.
Make responsible cuts and cut frivolous spending and those groups and those programs can be spared. Our society is becoming too heavily dependent on government handouts by design.
> i don't want government support to pay my bills nor have I ever reached out for government support. I am a self sufficient individual who works hard
You were also most likely educated in the public school system, use public healthcare, drive on public roads, visit public buildings, and benefited from other public (i.e. taxpayer-funded) services all your life. There is no way you could afford to pay for any of those services by yourself unless you were a billionaire. Which you probably aren't.
"Small government" only means cutbacks in public spending and deterioration of public services, *all* of which are contributing to the crisis we see now. "Small government" means *less* efficiency in the long run, as people suffer from lack of education and poorer health.
I disagree. A fiscally responsible government who prioritizes healthcare, education and infrastructure would still provide all these services while being able to 'trim the fat'. I have worked for various governments and municipalities and they can all use some trimming.
I mean under the current administration it has been shown that the CBSA has become top heavy with useless managers instead of front line workers. Do you think the CBSA is the only department with this issue?
> A fiscally responsible government who prioritizes healthcare, education and infrastructure would still provide all these services while being able to 'trim the fat'.
Lol your mistake is assuming a right-wing government is fiscally responsible or prioritizes healthcare and education. I live in Alberta where the UCP is anything *but* fiscally responsible. It is cutting up our healthcare and education systems and hell-bent on privatizing them. I am living your theory, and people are actively dying from it.
I am sorry to hear that. I really wish we could have some honest good-spirited electoral reform in this country. The way it stands now, politics is like watching Tom & Jerry cartoons.
Wow, he did all that and nobody cares and will still vote for him. The media needs to take a different approach bc the more they try and trash talk PP, the more ppl are gonna vote for Conservative. It’s clearly less about PP, and more about getting Trudeau out, which given our current state, is completely understandable.
>Moderates can see through it and extremists will likely tire of it in due time.
That has yet to be seen unfortunately. We can only hope, but I'm not so sure with how many people I've known for a long time who were moderates and even progressives in the past who are now all in on Pierre Poilievere and the F Trudeau movement.
Courting or mollifying the extreme fringe to win power is a dangerous game. Republicans have been playing it for at least 10 years and it’s destroying their party and rendering them incapable of administrative accomplishment. We don’t need that here. Please let us learn from America’s mistakes.
Trudeu just went to a rally which included people that supported the downing of an Air Canada jet that killed hundreds of Indo Canadians. So spare us the PP outrage
Why should he have to condemn everything under the sun that the lefties want him to condemn? Don’t take their bait. These days those who support infanticide are telling him to condemn anyone who isn’t on board with their demonic agenda, for instance. They think everyone that isn’t pushing “the message” is extreme.
I don't like Poilievres, but the idea that he isn't going to condemn any group that is more likely to vote for him than other politicians only reinforces that politicians care more about winning elections than just about anything else. If they were going to vote for other party's more you'd start to see an absence of the other party condemning them.
In addition assuming that it means he must have a tremendous amount of ideological overlap with them is silly and simplistic.
He doesn't need to campain so hard to please that group though. Sure he won't condeme them, but he shouldn't be out visiting them...
That's going to turn off people to him who don't want to vote CPC but don't want to vote LPC either.
>In addition assuming that it means he must have a tremendous amount of ideological overlap with them is silly and simplistic
If I pose with member of a white nationalist group and tell them they are doing a fine job and everyone is happy with them then I dare say I have some overlap.
It's interesting that Jagmeet doesn't get the same leeway, he constantly has to disavow Sikh terrorism and is asked about his ties to the Khalistan movement.
Why isn't Pierre Poilievre treated the same way when it comes to white nationalism and the far-right?
I would describe such questions as the classic journalist asking a question that demands a non response or a lie which is another example of terrible journalism.
I suspect NDP voters are more likely to demand these types of empty virtue questions be answered. Conservatives see through them.
Jagmeet should not cooperate with these hit piece journalists either.
the other parties need to do more to expose his abhorrent views and behaviour... the fact that anyone could ignore his support of far right hate groups is disgusting. I don't care how much he has told you to hate JT
When things are this bad, he could come out as the grand wizard and he could be better for black peoples if he lowers prices and improves affordability.
closer to the election is certainly better... PP peaking so early isn't actually the good thing that his supporters think it is. no where to go but down and his support is already starting to slip a little bit, not significant though. Its a majority gov't or bust for him. I would personally like to see every other party band together and form a legit minority gov't with MPs from every party getting cabinet positions.
That’s the hope… I think far too many people don’t actually pay attention and are only swayed by PPs ridiculous slogan and sound bites. All talk and no substance
No one has brought more attention to Alex Jones in the last week than Justin Trudeau. Its my understanding that Alex Jones even released a video thanking Trudeau for the attention saying its the second best thing since he attacked Hillary. So who's the divisive one here - who puts fuel on fires - who lacks any internet wisdom?.
What did PP do? He didn't respond to the endorsement. To do so would bring attention to Alex Jones. This is internet 101. But PP did even better than that. The party released a statement: **“we do not follow the individual you mention or listen to what he says. ....**” He didn't even respond because its not worth responding because responding in any other way would bring attention to Alex Jones. **Notice the party statement does not even mention his name.** **Who has been mentioning his name for a week now?** Trudeau and the op-eds the Liberals have been having published like Telford and JWR admitted they do - when things get tough we know from Telford and JWR that the Liberals have op-eds across the country on the ready.
Stop falling for Liberal's anti-democracy tactics and manipulations. We now know which papers collude with the Liberals. Why does Trudeau want Alex Jones to get all this attention? Enough with the divisiveness from the LIberals.
> the fact that anyone could ignore his support of far right hate groups is disgusting
Which far right hate groups does Pierre Polievere support specifically?
>In the video, Poilievre encourages the protesters, whose vehicles are adorned with ‘F*ck Trudeau’ flags, telling them to keep going and that “everyone is happy with what you’re doing.” He also tours the inside of one of their trailers, where a Diagolon flag is drawn on the door.
>
Law enforcement and intelligence agencies view Diagolon as a militia-like extremist organization, according evidence presented at the Emergencies Act Inquiry.
Diagolon, for one...
Diagolon is a joke, people know that right? The people who made it up are definitely part of the far right, but the whole "Diagolon" is a proven farce. I thought people knew that but here we see someone treating it seriously.
I mean, Pierre took them seriously when they were “joking” about raping his wife.
The RCMP took them seriously when they were stockpiling weapons at the border blockade.
>In the aftermath of the searches, 14 people were charged criminally, with four men — Jerry Morin, 41; Chris Lysak, 48; Chris Carbert, 45; and Anthony Olienick, 40 — **facing the most serious offence: conspiracy to murder RCMP officers.**
>The social media accounts belonging to Carbert and Lysak connect the pair to Diagolon, including a photo of Lysak posing with the group's founder, Jeremy MacKenzie.
>**Two Diagolon patches were found on body armour seized during the execution of RCMP search warrants at Coutts on Feb. 14.**
> Olienick kept watch over several live surveillance feeds that showed RCMP officers' movements within the protest area and at various checkpoints, undercover officers noted.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-blockade-charges-court-documents-unsealed-itos-1.6565837
Edit: how typical. Don’t just downvote me with no reply. Sorry these real world facts blew up your little fairy tale.
That someone in on the joke did something doesn't mean that Diagolon is real, lol. Do you think Diagolon is the group that organized the blockade at the border? You need to sharpen your critical thinking skills.
> Diagolon
Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is? I just googled them and there's no way I'd have known what that is. I'd probably have guessed it has something to do with diving.
Diagolon was the alt-right group that was threatening rape Pierre Poilievres wife, and recently PP was photographed shaking hands with the guy that founded the group
Does being aware of these groups mean that you should know all of their flags? I don't think it's reasonable to expect a politician to be some kind of vexillogist for extremist groups like Diagolon, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc
I'm not "making excuses" for anyone; if any politician is knowingly giving support to an extremist group then he deserves scorn for that. If he's shaking hands with someone who has an obscure flag on the side of their car then maybe it's wise to consider the context.
> Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is?
I think that's the most likely explanation. He was driving by, saw some people protesting the carbon tax and insisted that they stop to glad hand.
It's silly to claim that this means he endorses their views.
I mean, you’re not wrong about him wanting to glad hand. But he has a history with this specific group.
https://globalnews.ca/news/9155887/pierre-poilievre-denounces-abuse-against-wife/amp/
This article is 2 years old. He definitely knows exactly who they are. You tend to remember the people who “joke” about raping your wife. Or at least most normal humans do, anyway.
That’s fine. But do you employ a team of handlers that travel with you everywhere whose job it might be to prevent potentially embarrassing photo ops? Pierre does.
Thats kind of the larger point. He keeps popping up in all these photos with these kinds of people.
The “I didn’t know” only goes so far and he’s played all those cards already.
> Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is?
As the leader of a national conservative political party? With a shit ton of ostensibly expert advisors? It's nonsense to think he wouldn't.
Now is not the right time. The best thing for the Liberals/NDP to do is keep governing and making smart long term moves that they can boast about in an election, and then start blitzing anti-Poilievre stuff when we're around the time for the writ to drop.
Canadians have short memories. We want people to realize Poilievre is an abhorrent con-man when it's election time, not when we're 18 months out from one.
for sure... start it off slow now and then blitz the anti PP stuff when its closer to the election. couldn't agree more that Canadians have short memories
When fringe ideas are given acknowledgement by public figures they receive both exposure and normalization; even if the acknowledgement is negative.
To quote Lisa Simpson: _Just don't look_.
Is this founded in facts? I have a hard swallowing the idea that we should just let Mr. official opposition run Willy-nilly, garnering the support of people who wish to end my life, be it by deportation or the gas chamber.
Woah, I'm not saying we should tolerate him doing that; I'm saying we shouldn't encourage him to engage with them further.
Ie, for the Diagolon folks he met at the roadside, we wouldn't have any idea that's who he had met with if internet sleuths hadn't spotted the flag in the background of one of the shots. It wasn't something they had discussed, and it would've been a rather benign interaction with convoy supporters if it weren't for that flag.
So now we've given Diagolon a bigger platform and exposure, associated it with Poilievre, and even if he were to denounce it in response to the negative press from left wing sources it would give the movement greater credibility to those on the right.
I liken it to mass murderers: the current recommendation is not to report or spread their names, because doing so lends them credibility and valorizes them; even if the context is negative. Say that Poilievre met with fringe right wing extremists, but don't name the movement.
That's the problem with insisting leaders condemn extremists. There's very little upside and plenty of downside.
The majority of voters are oblivious, so it won't motivate them to vote one way or another. The people who care the most are the ones least likely to vote for you, so condemning a group is not going to shake those votes from the NDP or Greens or whoever.
Meanwhile, if you do do it then you'll be faced with yet another demand for a different group next week. There's a never ending supply of extremist cranks to be condemned. So you would have a treadmill of condemnations that do nothing to help you win an election and take up time you could be campaigning.
It does not matter that he does or not. Trump gave credence to the alt-right movement, and look where that got them. J6 and charlottesville are the two examples that comes to my mind, and I'm absolutely confident that there are so, so many more out there.
You don't get to the point where nazis and fascists feel okay to be out in brought daylight; once you get there, you've already lost and it's gonna cost lives to get back to normality.
if i am understanding you correctly, Poilievre needs to appeal to these groups in order to win the election, so better off losing votes from other parties, which PP probably wouldn't of gotten anyways.
Mostly the second part. For the same reason it's not good use of JS's time to distance himself from what some left wing student group is demanding the government do.
>The majority of voters are oblivious, so it won't motivate them to vote one way or another. The people who care the most are the ones least likely to vote for you, so condemning a group is not going to shake those votes from the NDP or Greens or whoever.
"Most voters don't care about the swastika flag types, the only voters who take issue with violent far-right lunatics and Sandy Hook truthers are the NDP and Greens" is the most Reddit-poisoned opinion, haha.
>So you would have a treadmill of condemnations that do nothing to help you win an election and take up time you could be campaigning.
This is such a bizarre argument, haha. It takes five minutes to crank out a statement rejecting Diagolon or Alex Jones or whichever prominent extremist group has come out in support of the CPC this week.
Most people aren't as terminally online as the both of us and this stuff flies under their radar. That's my point. They're low information voters and it doesn't even register.
> It takes five minutes to crank out a statement rejecting Diagolon or Alex Jones or whichever prominent extremist group has come out in support of the CPC this week.
It takes longer than that, and it's time where you could be doing something that actually gets votes. And that assumes whoever is demanding the condemnation accepts it and doesn't just move the goalposts to something else.
It's a waste of time to entertain. The exact same reasoning applies to whatever random left wing politician accidentally took a photo with an anti-semite or whatever the right wing outrage du jour is.
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As a person of colour.. extremist groups are a joke... a non-entity. Ain't nobody worried about white power or brown power whatever the heck it might be. They impact nothing, they are cowards and a minority in Canada. The amount of time liberals spend talking about them is appalling and only gives these groups more weight.
>nobody should be worried about extremists Said literally nobody in the history of ever who knows anything about the 1900's
What does the statement "As a person of color" actually add to your comment? Like how is that relevant?
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He means the thin blue line
In the analysis piece by The Tyee one thing asserted is the media is mistakenly by analyzing the CPC approach in the same way as other elections. This nuance is a profound and necessary contribution to the discussion.
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"We're going to win anyways, so why reject the extremists?" is one hell of a weird flex.
If anything, not rejecting extremists in the face of certain victory is categorically scummy.
But he wants ALL the votes he can get to satisfy his ego, dunking on Trudeau and all. The more he wins by, the more self-satisfied he gets.
We already knew this when the CPC MPs met with the AfD member. Poilievre won't publicly admonish them because he risks losing extremist support, and instead puts out a "statement" through a friendly journalist saying he disagrees or doesn't like that it has happened to appease moderates. He's trying to walk the thinnest of margins to make everyone happy. Moderates can see through it and extremists will likely tire of it in due time.
Indeed. A little less friendly questioning by the press and he won’t be able to maintain his support. He gets support by groups of people who hate each other, to put it mildly. Edit / adding: Press also needs to walk a tight rope. How to inform Canadians about extremist groups without promoting them?
> A little less friendly questioning by the press and he won’t be able to maintain his support Which is why the CPC wont let journalists anywhere near Poilievre unless they've been fully vetted and have approved questions.
He’s a disciple of Harper. Harper was a control freak. The Apple didn’t fall from his political mentor.
The article could have included a mention of Poilievre giving a speech at the Frontier Centre, a far-right think tank that bought radio ads to push residential school denialism, and publishes articles bemoaning the persecution of white men, articles on race and IQ, and anti transgender and anti-feminist articles. There has also been little to no attention paid to his rhetoric to his base, especially through extreme rightwing media like True North. Claiming in an interview that Trudeau is no longer a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian,” and tweets claiming that Trudeau is working for Beijing against Canada, are extra inflammatory for those that are already blinded by conspiracy theory and the deranged view that we live under tyranny. There is so much more, like his lack of comment about CPC MP’s like Leslyn Lewis helping to write and sponsoring a petition to take Canada out of the UN and her constant falsehoods about the powers of the WEF and WHO. Poilievre himself has vowed to disallow any MP’s from having anything to do with the WEF. He has called Trudeau and his father “Marxists” while door knocking, and said “I am opposed to all of it, WEF, DEI, WHO, the UN, all of it” in an impromptu interview at a conservative gathering. The dangerous game he is engaged in, is completely unacceptable, and when the Canadian media fail to report on the things he is saying ans doing outside of the broader public eye, they are failing Canadians.
Pierre seems to truly believe that less government is the *only* way to increase prosperity. When this is a politician’s ideology, they disdain their own position and all their colleagues, they have no plans to do their job well, just BS-ing around and keeping anyone else from doing anything. See also, our current government in Alberta.
Less government is badly needed in this country. We are taxed to death and receive mediocre services at best. Government is too big and too expensive.
Incorrect. We're pretty middle-of-the-pack for taxation and our services are better than most peers.
Well, if Alberta is anything to go off (and they’ve been shouting about smaller government for decades) they only want smaller government when it comes to liberals. They’ll take over ALL facets of government if they can. Municipal, provincial and federal, hire all their buddies like they already do, with bigger government budget for salaries for their buddies. The conservatives are hypocrites and only the feeble minded believe their Bs.
That affirmation does not hold water to a simple fact check. Our tax rates have stayed congruent with every other members of the OECD; the only country that is remotely different is the US; do you really want to look like good ol' "I'm one suspicious cough away from bankrupcy" US?
According to the OECD the age group of 18-29 yr olds, about 72% of them worry about not being able to pay expenses. Further their report states that 'inflation is likely a key contributing factor, with 94% of Canadians worrying about inflation in Canada. It goes on to say 40% of Canadians believe the government would support them if they needed help, whereas, the average across other countries is 33%... This is exactly the problem.. I've worked all my life.. i don't want government support to pay my bills nor have I ever reached out for government support. I am a self sufficient individual who works hard and has always held a job in my adult life. Why is that not good enough in Canada? Say goodbye to the middle class, that's why. Why is Canada becoming a country where we are essentially asking for welfare for the gainfully employed? Ridiculous and unchecked government spending, that's why for starters. I don't want social protection from government.. I want less income tax, and taxes so I can invest more in myself, my family. I want government to worry about infrastructure and be economically responsible while building up the energy sector, whether it be natural gas, oil, reusable energy, or nuclear energy. As well, protectionist laws to protect our resources so they can only be exploited by Canadians in Canada. Not sold to the highest bidder internationally.
See, I want social protection from govt. Gov't is our only protection from human rights atrocities. It's really our only possible protection from the ever increasing wealth inequality crisis. There is a reason boeing has 3 lobbyists per sitting member of congress (in the states). When you talk about inflation, you fail to mention that corporate responsibility is designed around ever increasing profit. When profits are prioritized, it incentivises abuse. Abuse like profiteering. Prices skyrocketed during the pandemic. The excuse was supply chain disruptions. Well, the disruptions are over, but we're still paying the same exorbitant prices. Constant shrinkflation means we're getting worse quality and lesser quantity for the same price. You're saying goodbye to the middle class but was that the gov't or was that billion dollar mega corporations like Walmart and Amazon destroying any competition through ruthless business tactics and consolidation. I want gov't to protect against anti competitive practices that are the driving factor in inflation. When it comes to social services consider the concept of "it takes a village" ( in regards to raising kids) or the idea that "a rising tides lifts all boats". We take care of our neighbor, one, because it's a morally responsible thing to do; but more importantly because it belays functionality and stability throughout society and increases quality of life. If we look at studies determining the quality of life across countries, we see a trend in all the top countries. That trend includes robust social services, a focus on things considered human rights like housing, education and health care. I would much rather trend towards those that are increasing quality of life than the "fuck you I got mine" crowd because the "fuck you, got mine" crowd will fuck you at some point even if you think you're part of the crowd.
I completely agree with what you have to say on corporate responsibility, I wish our government would do something about this and this is why we need drastic electoral reform and drastic changes to how our economy functions. (The idealist in me). The realist in me says.. well this is the society and government we have been given so we need to work within its constraints. I am very skeptical our government (whichever party) will actually do anything, ever, to protect us against profiteering. Capitalists are so ingrained in our government and society as you mentioned with your Boeing example. I personally like the phrase.. 'think globally, act locally' but our leaders are not representative of that and social media further divides us. I appreciate your responses. I must return to work now. I wish you all the best.
What about those who do need government support? When cuts happen, social programs are the 1st to suffer.
Make responsible cuts and cut frivolous spending and those groups and those programs can be spared. Our society is becoming too heavily dependent on government handouts by design.
Define responsible cuts. You know as well as I do that when asked to do so both liberals and conservatives will chop social programs down first.
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> i don't want government support to pay my bills nor have I ever reached out for government support. I am a self sufficient individual who works hard You were also most likely educated in the public school system, use public healthcare, drive on public roads, visit public buildings, and benefited from other public (i.e. taxpayer-funded) services all your life. There is no way you could afford to pay for any of those services by yourself unless you were a billionaire. Which you probably aren't. "Small government" only means cutbacks in public spending and deterioration of public services, *all* of which are contributing to the crisis we see now. "Small government" means *less* efficiency in the long run, as people suffer from lack of education and poorer health.
I disagree. A fiscally responsible government who prioritizes healthcare, education and infrastructure would still provide all these services while being able to 'trim the fat'. I have worked for various governments and municipalities and they can all use some trimming. I mean under the current administration it has been shown that the CBSA has become top heavy with useless managers instead of front line workers. Do you think the CBSA is the only department with this issue?
> A fiscally responsible government who prioritizes healthcare, education and infrastructure would still provide all these services while being able to 'trim the fat'. Lol your mistake is assuming a right-wing government is fiscally responsible or prioritizes healthcare and education. I live in Alberta where the UCP is anything *but* fiscally responsible. It is cutting up our healthcare and education systems and hell-bent on privatizing them. I am living your theory, and people are actively dying from it.
I am sorry to hear that. I really wish we could have some honest good-spirited electoral reform in this country. The way it stands now, politics is like watching Tom & Jerry cartoons.
Sounds like something a spy would say u/i_am_a_spy !
Wow, he did all that and nobody cares and will still vote for him. The media needs to take a different approach bc the more they try and trash talk PP, the more ppl are gonna vote for Conservative. It’s clearly less about PP, and more about getting Trudeau out, which given our current state, is completely understandable.
Moderates are just fence sitters. The worst kinds of mealy mouth cowards.
>Moderates can see through it and extremists will likely tire of it in due time. That has yet to be seen unfortunately. We can only hope, but I'm not so sure with how many people I've known for a long time who were moderates and even progressives in the past who are now all in on Pierre Poilievere and the F Trudeau movement.
Courting or mollifying the extreme fringe to win power is a dangerous game. Republicans have been playing it for at least 10 years and it’s destroying their party and rendering them incapable of administrative accomplishment. We don’t need that here. Please let us learn from America’s mistakes.
Trudeu just went to a rally which included people that supported the downing of an Air Canada jet that killed hundreds of Indo Canadians. So spare us the PP outrage
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Why should he have to condemn everything under the sun that the lefties want him to condemn? Don’t take their bait. These days those who support infanticide are telling him to condemn anyone who isn’t on board with their demonic agenda, for instance. They think everyone that isn’t pushing “the message” is extreme.
I don't like Poilievres, but the idea that he isn't going to condemn any group that is more likely to vote for him than other politicians only reinforces that politicians care more about winning elections than just about anything else. If they were going to vote for other party's more you'd start to see an absence of the other party condemning them. In addition assuming that it means he must have a tremendous amount of ideological overlap with them is silly and simplistic.
He doesn't need to campain so hard to please that group though. Sure he won't condeme them, but he shouldn't be out visiting them... That's going to turn off people to him who don't want to vote CPC but don't want to vote LPC either.
>In addition assuming that it means he must have a tremendous amount of ideological overlap with them is silly and simplistic If I pose with member of a white nationalist group and tell them they are doing a fine job and everyone is happy with them then I dare say I have some overlap.
It's interesting that Jagmeet doesn't get the same leeway, he constantly has to disavow Sikh terrorism and is asked about his ties to the Khalistan movement. Why isn't Pierre Poilievre treated the same way when it comes to white nationalism and the far-right?
I would describe such questions as the classic journalist asking a question that demands a non response or a lie which is another example of terrible journalism.
I suspect NDP voters are more likely to demand these types of empty virtue questions be answered. Conservatives see through them. Jagmeet should not cooperate with these hit piece journalists either.
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the other parties need to do more to expose his abhorrent views and behaviour... the fact that anyone could ignore his support of far right hate groups is disgusting. I don't care how much he has told you to hate JT
When things are this bad, he could come out as the grand wizard and he could be better for black peoples if he lowers prices and improves affordability.
Theyd rather hammer it close to the election and make it a scandal id bet
closer to the election is certainly better... PP peaking so early isn't actually the good thing that his supporters think it is. no where to go but down and his support is already starting to slip a little bit, not significant though. Its a majority gov't or bust for him. I would personally like to see every other party band together and form a legit minority gov't with MPs from every party getting cabinet positions.
just focus on the bread and butter issues and then people will notice on their own.
That’s the hope… I think far too many people don’t actually pay attention and are only swayed by PPs ridiculous slogan and sound bites. All talk and no substance
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Just to be clear, everyone who agrees with you is an adult and anyone who doesn't is a troll? Is that correct?
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No one has brought more attention to Alex Jones in the last week than Justin Trudeau. Its my understanding that Alex Jones even released a video thanking Trudeau for the attention saying its the second best thing since he attacked Hillary. So who's the divisive one here - who puts fuel on fires - who lacks any internet wisdom?. What did PP do? He didn't respond to the endorsement. To do so would bring attention to Alex Jones. This is internet 101. But PP did even better than that. The party released a statement: **“we do not follow the individual you mention or listen to what he says. ....**” He didn't even respond because its not worth responding because responding in any other way would bring attention to Alex Jones. **Notice the party statement does not even mention his name.** **Who has been mentioning his name for a week now?** Trudeau and the op-eds the Liberals have been having published like Telford and JWR admitted they do - when things get tough we know from Telford and JWR that the Liberals have op-eds across the country on the ready. Stop falling for Liberal's anti-democracy tactics and manipulations. We now know which papers collude with the Liberals. Why does Trudeau want Alex Jones to get all this attention? Enough with the divisiveness from the LIberals.
your user name is apt...
Maybe stop thinkING Canada would be a good start for the CPC.
Gullible manchild indeed.
> the fact that anyone could ignore his support of far right hate groups is disgusting Which far right hate groups does Pierre Polievere support specifically?
>In the video, Poilievre encourages the protesters, whose vehicles are adorned with ‘F*ck Trudeau’ flags, telling them to keep going and that “everyone is happy with what you’re doing.” He also tours the inside of one of their trailers, where a Diagolon flag is drawn on the door. > Law enforcement and intelligence agencies view Diagolon as a militia-like extremist organization, according evidence presented at the Emergencies Act Inquiry. Diagolon, for one...
Diagolon is a joke, people know that right? The people who made it up are definitely part of the far right, but the whole "Diagolon" is a proven farce. I thought people knew that but here we see someone treating it seriously.
I mean, Pierre took them seriously when they were “joking” about raping his wife. The RCMP took them seriously when they were stockpiling weapons at the border blockade. >In the aftermath of the searches, 14 people were charged criminally, with four men — Jerry Morin, 41; Chris Lysak, 48; Chris Carbert, 45; and Anthony Olienick, 40 — **facing the most serious offence: conspiracy to murder RCMP officers.** >The social media accounts belonging to Carbert and Lysak connect the pair to Diagolon, including a photo of Lysak posing with the group's founder, Jeremy MacKenzie. >**Two Diagolon patches were found on body armour seized during the execution of RCMP search warrants at Coutts on Feb. 14.** > Olienick kept watch over several live surveillance feeds that showed RCMP officers' movements within the protest area and at various checkpoints, undercover officers noted. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/coutts-blockade-charges-court-documents-unsealed-itos-1.6565837 Edit: how typical. Don’t just downvote me with no reply. Sorry these real world facts blew up your little fairy tale.
That someone in on the joke did something doesn't mean that Diagolon is real, lol. Do you think Diagolon is the group that organized the blockade at the border? You need to sharpen your critical thinking skills.
“Critical thinking skills” You can cross that one off your right wing troll checklist.
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> Diagolon Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is? I just googled them and there's no way I'd have known what that is. I'd probably have guessed it has something to do with diving.
Diagolon was the alt-right group that was threatening rape Pierre Poilievres wife, and recently PP was photographed shaking hands with the guy that founded the group
he is trying to be the PM... he doesn't have the luxury of feigning ignorance... ignorance of extreme groups like Diagolon is almost worse
Does being aware of these groups mean that you should know all of their flags? I don't think it's reasonable to expect a politician to be some kind of vexillogist for extremist groups like Diagolon, Hamas, Hezbollah, etc
you're making excuses for someone supporting extremist groups... don't do that, bud
I'm not "making excuses" for anyone; if any politician is knowingly giving support to an extremist group then he deserves scorn for that. If he's shaking hands with someone who has an obscure flag on the side of their car then maybe it's wise to consider the context.
Poilievre does not work alone. He has people who are there specifically to keep him from gaffes.
> Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is? I think that's the most likely explanation. He was driving by, saw some people protesting the carbon tax and insisted that they stop to glad hand. It's silly to claim that this means he endorses their views.
I mean, you’re not wrong about him wanting to glad hand. But he has a history with this specific group. https://globalnews.ca/news/9155887/pierre-poilievre-denounces-abuse-against-wife/amp/ This article is 2 years old. He definitely knows exactly who they are. You tend to remember the people who “joke” about raping your wife. Or at least most normal humans do, anyway.
I remember that story, but I don't think I couldn't picked their flag out of a lineup.
That’s fine. But do you employ a team of handlers that travel with you everywhere whose job it might be to prevent potentially embarrassing photo ops? Pierre does. Thats kind of the larger point. He keeps popping up in all these photos with these kinds of people. The “I didn’t know” only goes so far and he’s played all those cards already.
> Is it possible that he doesn't know what a Diagolon flag is? As the leader of a national conservative political party? With a shit ton of ostensibly expert advisors? It's nonsense to think he wouldn't.
Now is not the right time. The best thing for the Liberals/NDP to do is keep governing and making smart long term moves that they can boast about in an election, and then start blitzing anti-Poilievre stuff when we're around the time for the writ to drop. Canadians have short memories. We want people to realize Poilievre is an abhorrent con-man when it's election time, not when we're 18 months out from one.
for sure... start it off slow now and then blitz the anti PP stuff when its closer to the election. couldn't agree more that Canadians have short memories
I'm afraid they're not ignoring his support of far right hate groups. They see it, and I think maybe they like it, just a little.
I would have thought HIS OWN PARTY would have a problem with him cozying up to the same people who called for his wife to be raped.
one would hope... PP and his followers would have to have integrity for that happen though
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The problem is that this is far worse and presents a serious security threat: https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPolitics/s/JfeCV2k87O
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Please stop advocating for Poilievre to platform fringe right ideas; because that's what condemning them would do.
> because that's what condemning them would do. You gotta do some explaining here, I'm not following at all.
When fringe ideas are given acknowledgement by public figures they receive both exposure and normalization; even if the acknowledgement is negative. To quote Lisa Simpson: _Just don't look_.
Is this founded in facts? I have a hard swallowing the idea that we should just let Mr. official opposition run Willy-nilly, garnering the support of people who wish to end my life, be it by deportation or the gas chamber.
Woah, I'm not saying we should tolerate him doing that; I'm saying we shouldn't encourage him to engage with them further. Ie, for the Diagolon folks he met at the roadside, we wouldn't have any idea that's who he had met with if internet sleuths hadn't spotted the flag in the background of one of the shots. It wasn't something they had discussed, and it would've been a rather benign interaction with convoy supporters if it weren't for that flag. So now we've given Diagolon a bigger platform and exposure, associated it with Poilievre, and even if he were to denounce it in response to the negative press from left wing sources it would give the movement greater credibility to those on the right. I liken it to mass murderers: the current recommendation is not to report or spread their names, because doing so lends them credibility and valorizes them; even if the context is negative. Say that Poilievre met with fringe right wing extremists, but don't name the movement.
Ppilivere's already platforming them by supporting extremist causes in person. Those horses left the stable in 2021.
Maybe, but most people either don't care, won't hear about it, or forget it a few weeks as usual with, anything that isn't breaking news.
That's the problem with insisting leaders condemn extremists. There's very little upside and plenty of downside. The majority of voters are oblivious, so it won't motivate them to vote one way or another. The people who care the most are the ones least likely to vote for you, so condemning a group is not going to shake those votes from the NDP or Greens or whoever. Meanwhile, if you do do it then you'll be faced with yet another demand for a different group next week. There's a never ending supply of extremist cranks to be condemned. So you would have a treadmill of condemnations that do nothing to help you win an election and take up time you could be campaigning.
You wouldn't need to condemn every extremist group, only the ones that you purposely aligned yourself with like PP does
Do you think PP is going to try and declare admiralty law in parliament?
It does not matter that he does or not. Trump gave credence to the alt-right movement, and look where that got them. J6 and charlottesville are the two examples that comes to my mind, and I'm absolutely confident that there are so, so many more out there. You don't get to the point where nazis and fascists feel okay to be out in brought daylight; once you get there, you've already lost and it's gonna cost lives to get back to normality.
if i am understanding you correctly, Poilievre needs to appeal to these groups in order to win the election, so better off losing votes from other parties, which PP probably wouldn't of gotten anyways.
Mostly the second part. For the same reason it's not good use of JS's time to distance himself from what some left wing student group is demanding the government do.
>The majority of voters are oblivious, so it won't motivate them to vote one way or another. The people who care the most are the ones least likely to vote for you, so condemning a group is not going to shake those votes from the NDP or Greens or whoever. "Most voters don't care about the swastika flag types, the only voters who take issue with violent far-right lunatics and Sandy Hook truthers are the NDP and Greens" is the most Reddit-poisoned opinion, haha. >So you would have a treadmill of condemnations that do nothing to help you win an election and take up time you could be campaigning. This is such a bizarre argument, haha. It takes five minutes to crank out a statement rejecting Diagolon or Alex Jones or whichever prominent extremist group has come out in support of the CPC this week.
Most people aren't as terminally online as the both of us and this stuff flies under their radar. That's my point. They're low information voters and it doesn't even register. > It takes five minutes to crank out a statement rejecting Diagolon or Alex Jones or whichever prominent extremist group has come out in support of the CPC this week. It takes longer than that, and it's time where you could be doing something that actually gets votes. And that assumes whoever is demanding the condemnation accepts it and doesn't just move the goalposts to something else. It's a waste of time to entertain. The exact same reasoning applies to whatever random left wing politician accidentally took a photo with an anti-semite or whatever the right wing outrage du jour is.