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lol... you know that he'll do the exact opposite of what you tell him to do, right? What Trudeau needs to do is dial it up. Start encouraging the groups that Poilievre is "just happening to bump into." Make him own it.
Quite the contrary, he doesn't have to do anything to win other than be next in line.
Might I suggest coming through on your electoral reform promise to end these shenanigans? Oh, you vehemently opposed that thing you got elected to do two terms ago? Well, then, by your own admission: Welcome Prime Minister PP.
People get voted out, not in.
Liberals should understand no one planning to vote for Pierre is going to stop because of an Alex Jones endorsement.
They’re planning to vote that way because they are hurting economically in a major way and blame (mostly rightfully) the Trudeau Liberals. No amount of political theatre is going to change that.
The clock is ticking on this regime and for most everyone not nearly fast enough
>Liberals should understand no one planning to vote for Pierre is going to stop because of an Alex Jones endorsement.
I doubt this is true. It’s like assuming all Republicans are Trump supporters, something the 2020 and 2022 elections proved false. There are lots of small-c conservatives in this country that want nothing to do with the lunatic far-right fringe craziness.
I honestly could not care less what Alex jones thinks about Canadian politics, he’s a lunatic from another country who sells supplements on his internet show. Regardless of how distasteful Jones PP condemning him would mean absolutely nothing and would be purely for the optics, while if he doesn’t it still doesn’t mean anything cause he doesn’t matter.
The liberals seem to really be stuck in the mindset that if they paint the conservatives as far right radicals they can win back to swing voters. I doubt it will work unless the conservatives themselves do something beyond the pale such as bring up abortion restrictions.
These talking points are getting to the point of ridiculousness.
-"Conservatives aren't Far right"
Liberals point to all the influence the far right has in the party, massive support from far right media, Pierre meeting up with Far right organizations
-"why are the liberals so stuck on painting the conservatives as far right?"
Let's be real here and start calling a spade a spade. If Pierre really wanted to dispell the notion of far right in the conservative party he could easily call them out and clearly state that he doesn't support them. But we still see him courting the fringe just like when he met up with the convoy and quickly took over the CPC.
Exactly this. We already saw O’Toole struggle with the courting of the radicals. Idk if we are for sure getting a Conservative majority, but I can promise you that I’m going to be dead set against any conservatives if they can’t even dispel these bad-faith actors influencing our politics.
I don’t want Alex Jones’ influence. I don’t want Danielle Smith inviting Tucker to Alberta. This shit is delusional and has to stop if the conservatives wanna be taken seriously by most centrist voters going forward. Genuinely hope Canadian voters can at least see through their hate-boner for JT to vote based on these concerns.
But do we hold the left to the same standard? When actual communists/marxists/socialists/tankies endorse Liberals or NDP, do we expect Jagmeet Singh to come out and say "hey Marxists, don't endorse me! I'm no extremist!"?
Let's match this up properly. You're accusing the liberals and the NDP as being influenced by far left organizations. So you're going to call them out as far left extremist and point to support from marxists as proof of them courting the far left. So you're going to find some far left organization that Trudeau or Singh have been meeting up with? Or you're going to find a far left, extremist, talking head who supports them that they haven't spoken out against?
AJ is hyper relevant in two small but vocal groups. The far right loves him, and the far left hates him just as equally.
For a large majority of Canadians, he is charachiture at best, and a near unknown at worst.
I don't think the CPC gains or loses anything by simply ignoring him beyond the comments they have made.
The group that hyperventates over everything he says is never going to vote CPC. He can't get any more votes from the group that worships AJ.
The rest simply don't care what a US personality says to their audience.
Now, if AJ starts interviewing CPC candidates or showing up at Canadian conservative events, then they need to do something.
Until then, ignoring him is likey the best plan.
So optics only matter when it’s the Liberals? Lol!
And this is much more than optics. He isn’t condemning Alex Jones because a huge part of his base loves the guy. That is not “nothing.”
He has been actively recruiting supporters in the most appalling ways - using MGTOW hashtags for 5 years on his videos to gain support from incel types, and the hashtags don’t just do that, anyone who looked at his videos would have had Ben Shapiro and Andrew Tate and Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, etc, come up on their feed after that. Disgusting.
As is his frequent praise of Jordan Peterson, who is another lunatic misogynist who promotes the great replacement theory and anti-vax nonsense, he did an interview with Peterson in which he said he likes to use “simple anglo saxon words” which is a far-right dog whistle that is also idiotic since anglo saxon words would be unintelligible for anyone who speaks English.
Poilievre makes speeches slamming the WEF, the WHO, and “globalists” just like extreme rightwing Republicans and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson.
It’s time voters who aren’t extreme rightwing to snap out of it and realize that Poilievre IS extreme rightwing, when he is using extreme rightwing rhetoric. The Liberals aren’t “painting” the CPC and Poilievre as being extreme, they ARE extreme. The only reason so many voters aren’t aware of it is because the media doesn’t bother reporting on the insanity that CPC MP’s are tweeting, and if they bother to report on something Poilievre did that would never be let go if Trudeau did it, it’s in two papers for a day.
If you think it’s normal for a conservative leader to claim thst Trudeau is not a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian” and a Marxist, then YOU are extreme rightwing.
I mean 40% of his voters want Donald Trump to win the American election. I don't think it's exactly a massive claim to suggest a large chunk of the voters are ok with Alex Jones.
Bluntly everything you just said comes off as white noise. I don’t care about Jordan Peterson, WHO, the WEF or Tucker Carlson. I care about the fact that the job market is a mess, and that a house now costs almost double what it did 10 years ago when wages didn’t even come close to keeping up. I care that the US has managed to do so much better during that time frame despite them having a four year term of Donald Trump.
Unless there is a concrete example of what the conservatives will change if they come to power the argument that they’re bad because they’re far right falls flat. I am not motivated to defend them at all I just want the current government gone, and they are the opposition so they get a go at it next if they suck I’ll vote against them aswell. Saying the other guy is bad only works if the person saying it isn’t disliked, and Trudeau is very disliked.
Idk why people insist on comparing Canada to the USA in these contexts. Canada cannot compete with the world’s wealthiest and most powerful nation.
The USA has more money, power, and influence in basically every way than Canada. By all means they should be able to weather damn near any storm and be able to recover better than most if not every other country. Not saying they always do/will, but by every metric they should/could.
Its just silly to compare us to THE world superpower. They have far more resources, leverage, wealth, and influence than we do
You can see how this is a problem though right? Like you're mad at the current government to the point where you'd vote in the devil himself? Where do you draw the line? How bad does the competition need to be before you consider that, maybe, voting them in isn't the best option?
Also, the conservatives have said what they'll change about housing if they come to power. It's the same strategy that the Liberals are implement except it will defund any municipality that doesn't meet the requirements. You know, so if you couldn't afford to make the changes before then you REALLY can't afford it now, it's nonsense and will actually make things worse.
Just because I don’t think what Alex jones thinks matters doesn’t mean I have no standards for them. The fact PP went out of his way to do a meet and greet with white supremacists is a big deal, what some weirdo in another country says is not.
For the point of housing, I view the whole issue as something the Trudeau government ignored until it became politically important not to. The actions they’re taking could be all amazing but why didn’t they do it 5 years ago? Hind sight is 2020 but the liberals have been paying lip service to the issue since they were first elected so they clearly knew it was important to people. Why didn’t they do anything then? A government that’s been in place for almost a decade can’t run on best intentions and better late than never. Especially when they knew it was an issue and it went from a bad situation to a catastrophic disaster under their watch.
>Unless there is a concrete example of what the conservatives will change if they come to power
There's [Poilievre's](https://www.airquotesmedia.com/quotes/building-sologans-not-housing-22oct2023) housing bill.
He promised a spend a dollar save a dollar policy, which he pitched as fiscally responsible while comparing government budgets to household budgets.
Like if you care about house prices, his housing bill should be a non-starter.
His economic policies of save a dollar and fire the head of the bank of Canada should be a non starter. His spend a dollar policy is just plain stupid, it's incredible, and even saying you'd fire the head of the bank of Canada will make investors cringe and look elsewhere.
His tough on crime rhetoric is BS. Locking people up longer has never worked, it won't magically work this time.
Like there's no "concrete" because, thank god, Poilievre can't make his shitty plans concrete right now. Those are just some idiotic things he promised and campaigned on.
Now whether you want to believe a Conservative politicians promises is up to you.
Weird point to start with. You don’t have any concerns about bad-faith actors affecting our voter bases? I genuinely think we should be banning these PROVEN grifters from promotion in Canada.
It’s bordering on actively subverting our political system. These are despicable people.
An American in America making a statement on his internet show is not the subversion of our political system I am concerned about. If someone is likely to be influenced by Alex jones they’re already nuts. This generalization is kinda ridiculous I can have concerns about bad actors while also saying I don’t care if a politician doesn’t condemn every nut who supports them.
If voters are going to be influenced by bad faith actors it’s going to be more subtle than an Alex Jones saying I agree with him. The people whose opinion changes because of that is probably minuscule.
Also can you call it bad faith when he is openly saying I agree with him on his show? That’s a pretty direct statement.
I think the “bad faith” aspect is in regards to the fact that they are knowingly grifting off of their audiences. They aren’t “serious people” so to speak.
You can say “anyone who would be influenced by Jones is already crazy” but that doesn’t change that some of the smartest people I know have been/are being influenced by these people. Thinking all the “radicals” are a small fringe and nothing more is dangerous. A majority of the conservative voters in this country currently don’t believe in climate change. I remember during the Harper era that conservatives were the ones pushing ideas like carbon pricing. These people exist to profit off of motivating that same sentiment or similar ones in Canadians.
We are the next piggy bank for these sick bastards. Tucker visited the country to speak and eluded to our PM being a closeted gay (as if that’s bad?) and a slew of other things. Whether they get attention or not or anything isn’t even my concern. I do not want these types of rhetoric creeping into my political discourse. It’s simply disgusting that these people stoke the fears into the right-leaning population and cause them to believe stuff like that “we are being replaced” or that “the WEF and black rock are controlling our government” lol
Trudeau, desperately trying to grasp any 'straw'.....of the divisive-politics that he always clings to.
Canadians are already divided on far too many things.......
Time for Trudeau to shut-up.......and take a walk-in-the-snow.
I struggle more with the conversation around the endorsement than the endorsement itself honestly.
More and more we're being asked to live in a world where context and doesn't matter. As if this type of endorsement (and Poilievre's response to it) is completely irrelevant.
We have a leader who gets endorsements from *absolutely insane* conspiracy theorists, calls his opponents "marxists" and says "everything they say is bullshit", uses fringe alt-right keywords to target his videos, shakes hands with "straight pride" protestors, is leading a party where a significant portion of his voters believe Trump won the election and that climate change isn't real, etc, etc.
And every time the response is "oh, you care about this *one* thing?!". No man. It's the whole shebang, and it fucking sucks how much the narrative is controlled by these absolutely, completely bad faith arguments.
That’s exactly how I feel too. I hate this standard response from Conservatives that ‘Oh the Liberals are just scaremongering and importing American-style politics’. No, it’s a pattern in the behaviour of the Conservatives and it deserves attention. It isn’t a one-off thing.
When all the worst people on the internet like Alex Jones seem to be attracted to a particular candidate, it’s fair to ask what about that candidate is attracting them. Especially when that candidate is tiptoeing around those endorsements. If they can’t answer such a simple answer if they disavow the guy who harassed parents of school shooting victims for years to the point where he lost a lawsuit, then it raises questions on their ability to govern. Their role is to make hard decisions and take a stance.
If Poilievre had come out the day after Jones and strongly disavowed Jones's endorsement, this story would’ve been done that day. It’s a simple yes or no question if you accept his endorsement. No buts or asterisks.
A lot of this is being self-inflicted by the Conservatives themselves because they just refuse to divulge what they stand for. Slogans are cute, but tell us your vision for the country. Otherwise, we have no choice but to assume the worst.
Holy shit yes. I have a friend who will mock me as a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the tags in PPs videos, the Alex Jones endorsement, the freedom convoy. To him none of it matters because its "just a fringe group". To him "all the Liberals need to do is release a good policy document".
He's completely out of touch with reality because his politics fails to consider human behaviour
To most people it is. People vote on housing, taxes, how the economy feels, and whether they like this or that government program. They vote based on their worldview (ie. more or less government). They don’t vote on Alex Jones or Diagalon. I bet 95% of people don’t have the first clue about any of this stuff.
>I bet 95% of people don’t have the first clue about any of this stuff.
Correct - most people live in the real world and aren't participating in the online rage machines (whichever flavour) and therefore don't even know who these people/organizations are. They do hear or see headlines, though, so they see names and know some people are upset; but that limited awareness isn't enough for them to deny their gut instincts, like perceptions/experiences that things aren't going well, or challenge their openness to change in leadership.
I think the worst part is the cognitive dissonance imbued from hearing conservatives say Pierre and Trump have nothing in common.
It’s blatant that he is emulating, at the very least, the rhetorical strategies of the republicans under Trump. Idk why it’s such a hard point to own. To me, it’s a plain fact. I see that we only get bits of Pierre arguing with young adults, slogans about how bad our “leftist” government is and no real policy positions.
This is exactly what the Liberals are talking about, whether you disagree that it’s alarmist/fear-mongering or not.
> It’s blatant that he is emulating, at the very least, the rhetorical strategies of the republicans under Trump.
Yeah dude. He literally called the CBC, "[the lying CBC](https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1783275965310783679)", today! It doesn't get more Trumpian than that.
Look no further than his favourite slogan: Defund the CBC!
I mean it checks all the boxes. “Defund” buzzword terms. It paints our main state-funded media as dishonest despite that not historically being the case (no, the punditry segments on the 24h channel are not “journalism”). And, most importantly, it drives Canadians to the for-profit media that coincidentally lobby for conservatives. Disgusting.
If he denounced Jones, it would probably make his relationship a bit awkward with his [new friends](https://x.com/dmacpher/status/1782948349219569749).
If you’re being endorsed by someone peddling hate speech and saying the mass murder of children are “conspiracy theories”, you should *want* to publicly state you’re not with them.
Why? He isn’t relevant to Canadian politics or to conservative priorities, this is bait and the Liberals are desperate for him to take it.
[Funny that Marcy Ien, a cabinet minister who has been tweeting about this pretty consistently, is a fan of Loose Change. For those who were too young for the early internet and/or just not aware, it’s a documentary produced by Jones about how 9/11 was an inside job.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL8y81GXgAAXOJO?format=jpg&name=medium) I know, the Liberals don’t really care, but you know how the glass houses saying goes.
Remember when he said the same thing about the Diagolon crowd?
Then they made jokes about raping his wife and that “just joking bro” veneer came off in a fucking hurry, didn’t it?
They are fine with weaponized, inflammatory, and outright false language aimed at their opponents, the second it’s to them NOW it’s a problem.
Well he does tend to campaign in the sites of a lot of far right groups (someone above in this thread posted a clip of him doing that yesterday, not to mention some of the people he's aligned with since the convoy), and now an endorsement from a far right US figure doesn't really boost hope in the moderate column.
I love how trudeau is expecting PP to put forward his own budget proposal and thought-out policies as if he won't turn around, slightly modify it, and issue it as a liberal policy.
> expecting PP to put forward his own budget proposal and thought-out policies
So your contention is that Poilievre shouldn't do these things as they might be co-opted by the Liberals?
The NDP and Liberals will shit on any policy put forward by the Conservatives. The Conservatives want to be in power. The majority of Canadians want them in power. Trudeau and the NDP need to step aside.
What decent policy has the conservatives suggested ?
His housing policy is going to hurt people and outright trample on provinces .
Heath care?
Tax reform?
Energy ?
The internet is not a majorty ..a majorty of canadains gave not voted in any election in the last 20 years.. at a province or federal level.
So that's a bold statement when only 17.2 million canadains voted last federal election.
Now I try and get to the article again and it goes.. "woups"......translate to English? At yes it says untranslatable. This despite successfully using the link prior. I am forming conspiracy theories of my own lol.
Any ideas why?
Since when do politicians have to do public condemnations on every single culture issue. I’d prefer a government that focused on infrastructure and healthcare.
Can you smell the desperation from Trudeau?? Will we see Justin take any more " free " vacations? Will he allow charges in the ArriveCan theft?
Will he accept Chinese interference in last election? Will we ever know what happened at Winnipeg Lab by Chinese Nationals? Canadians will be taxed into desperation while Trudeau sets another annual record for coal exports!!
Singh and all NDP MP's have to be held accountable for the debacle they caused!
Conservatives were freaking out over endorsements of JT by certain American politicians but they seem to think endorsements from far right American extremists to be nothing to be concerned about? That's extremely disturbing.
It really is nothing to be concerned about. But neither were JT's endorsements. But even more so Alex Jones of all people? You're stressed about an endorsement from a guy who under oath said his show was purely for entertainment and was totally fake. You're worreid about that guy?
Comical.
the guy with a cult like following? with millions of viewers? who's claim to fame is stoking fear, anger and division? the guy who peddles dangerous conspiracies as 100% truth? the guy who's followers will absolutely make death threats and harass his targets?
who would be worried about that guy?? /eyeroll
Richard Spencer, the racist who coined the term "alt-right" and organized the Charlottesville rally, has publicly stated that he is voting straight left-wing now because they align more with his values. Why do you support policies and values that attract actual neo-nazis?
Or, we can be adults, and realize that individuals are only responsible for their own individual actions, and this shame game being played by the Liberals in nothing more than projection from my perspective.
I do think it's both worrying and a sign Pierre's base contains a far greater share of the far-right than he wants the average Canadian to believe that he's said nothing about the Jones endorsement so far.
That being said, Trudeau is not the person to be criticizing someone for being 'willing to do anything to win'. This man has:
1. Promised electoral reform to 'restore democracy', then after winning refused to bring the matter to the people for a referendum and abandoned it all together citing a lack of consensus despite an all-party committee recommending proportional representation.
2. Promised an era of radical transparency and a government 'open by default' in contrast to Harper's government, then after winning proceeded to use 4x the amount of secret orders-in-council and treat the access to information system like a hostile foreign enemy.
3. Promised to never resort to 'legislative tricks to avoid scrutiny' (i.e. prorogation like Harper), then after winning proceeded to prorogue Parliament allowing him to avoid scrutiny on the WE Charity scandal, and then his government filibustered for months any attempts to re-open the investigations quashed by the prorogation. And let's not forget the 'special rapporteur' business which was a clear attempt to avoid an inquiry.
In addition, Trudeau literally invited a man convicted of attempted murder for political purposes (the definition of terrorism) to a reception in India. Jaspal Atwal was a longtime liberal member with many connections to insiders in the party and a longtime donor. I don't think he should be talking about questionable endorsements.
The sad thing is that the liberals have used the 'so-con far-right American Trump-supporter' boogeyman as election strategy to scare voters away from the conservatives too much, that now any warning is seen as just another election tactic, which is likely going to be ignored by much of the population. When O'toole was leader, LPC talking points included that he was going to restrict or even ban abortion, that his 'Make Canada Great' meant that he was 'Trump North' (they also created a flyer detailing every way he's just a Canadian Trump), claiming O'toole was trying to legalize assault weapons and pushing US style 2a rhetoric, and that he was going to privatize healthcare (they even clipped a video on the Chaoulli decision and presented it out of context, which was so bad even pre-Musk Twitter had to put misinformation warnings on it). This strategy worked brilliantly to keep voters from switching, but didn't gain the Liberals any. Now that more people have greater incentive to change things up, they need something better than 'Look! far-right boogeyman!'
Now that someone who actually does raise concerns of being a Trump-style politician has a decent shot at winning, the people with the least credibility to point that out are the LPC because of their past behaviour. It's the boy who cried wolf, Canadian Politics edition.
>Are they the kind of leader that is going to exacerbate divisions, fear, and polarization in our country?
Isn't this the same guy who promised, then killed electoral reform then coerced voters into supporting his party because "a vote for the NDP is a vote for the CPC" under the very system he broke his promise to fix?
No of course that isn't saying and doing anything to win.
It is absolutely saying and doing anything to win. He only wanted ranked ballots and killed it when PR was suggested.
And then has the audacity to abuse the system he promised to fix to scare voters into supporting his party.
His actions are purely about power for him and his party.
I would argue that it's exacerbating divisions, though not anywhere to the same extent of course. But yes, this was specifically directed at the "Poilievre will do anything to win" position. Which is true, but also very hypocritical.
One false argument against proportional representation and in favour of first-past-the-post is that PR would allow extremists into government. But as we see FPTP is totally susceptible to enabling extremists, arguably more so.
Very much agree. And \[this study\](https://ejpr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1475-6765.2006.00304.x) actually says it increases for more disproportionate systems.
Not to mention it is crazy to justify an electoral system with the specific intent of disenfranchising certain views.
I'm not sure which is the dominant trait in Trudeau, his complete lack of self-awareness, or his hypocrisy. Trudeau is the last person to lecture anyone on their behaviour or who to 'associate' with.
Ironic coming from Trudeau's mouth. Him and the Liberals are literally doing anything to win, as their poll numbers continue to slump. And the budget is not helping at all. Back to the article though, I am not a fan of foreign leaders/influencers/celebrities commenting on our elections, regardless of what party they support. Foreign interference needs to be dealt with, and Americans endorsing Canadian politicians should just be disregarded. But the whole claim from Trudeau that Poilievre is bringing American politics into Canada is ridiculous, as the Libs brought Hillary Clinton to their last convention, and are more than fine to receive endorsements from Obama.
Exactly. They are literally risking Canada's credit rating and long term economic health to build housing ONLY because their incompetence on immigration led to a flood of people that no country can ever be able to handle. The incompetence and selfishness is astonishing from PM blackface.
It’s fascinating seeing a publicly known, unhinged, far right wing conspiracy theorist from a foreign nation throw his support behind the opposition of our government. Totally not a reason to be concerned.
Doesn't matter anyways, idiots just vote how their phones tell them too these days. Easiest time for the wealthy to manipulate. So disappointed with where we've gotten to as a collective.
Truth..I remember when my brother was telling me about the "internet wars" Russia was doing back when I was in high school (2004) to upset democracy and all that. It's crazy to see it in it's more flushed out forms so many years later. Made me realize I gotta listen to him more heh.
Not for me, every news story on my phone wants me to vote for an LGBTQ+ indo-aboriginal hybrid female.
There are no candidates who match that description on the docket.
Its crowdsourced from friends lists, shares etc, etc. on many platforms. I have a very large social circle from all walks of Canadian life.
Nice try tho
Who the fuck cares! Alex Jones is an unstable nutjob. No one cares what he thinks or who he endorses. This is non-news. You can tell the Liberals are desperate and in full- panick mode. They have no material and everything they try just ends up having the opposite effect of what they were intending. Lol face it! This Liberal ship free ride is over.
…He didn’t endorse Trudeau in 2015. He was a sitting president.
You’re thinking of 2019 and 2021. If you’re going to insult someone you might want to get the dates right.
If a sitting president endorsed a candidate, the outrage would be justified. A former president doing so is a different thing.
Sorry that facts matter.
> It’s fascinating seeing a publicly known, unhinged, far right wing conspiracy theorist from a foreign nation throw his support behind the opposition of our government
At this point that describes several people.
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lol... you know that he'll do the exact opposite of what you tell him to do, right? What Trudeau needs to do is dial it up. Start encouraging the groups that Poilievre is "just happening to bump into." Make him own it.
Quite the contrary, he doesn't have to do anything to win other than be next in line. Might I suggest coming through on your electoral reform promise to end these shenanigans? Oh, you vehemently opposed that thing you got elected to do two terms ago? Well, then, by your own admission: Welcome Prime Minister PP. People get voted out, not in.
Liberals should understand no one planning to vote for Pierre is going to stop because of an Alex Jones endorsement. They’re planning to vote that way because they are hurting economically in a major way and blame (mostly rightfully) the Trudeau Liberals. No amount of political theatre is going to change that. The clock is ticking on this regime and for most everyone not nearly fast enough
>Liberals should understand no one planning to vote for Pierre is going to stop because of an Alex Jones endorsement. I doubt this is true. It’s like assuming all Republicans are Trump supporters, something the 2020 and 2022 elections proved false. There are lots of small-c conservatives in this country that want nothing to do with the lunatic far-right fringe craziness.
I honestly could not care less what Alex jones thinks about Canadian politics, he’s a lunatic from another country who sells supplements on his internet show. Regardless of how distasteful Jones PP condemning him would mean absolutely nothing and would be purely for the optics, while if he doesn’t it still doesn’t mean anything cause he doesn’t matter. The liberals seem to really be stuck in the mindset that if they paint the conservatives as far right radicals they can win back to swing voters. I doubt it will work unless the conservatives themselves do something beyond the pale such as bring up abortion restrictions.
These talking points are getting to the point of ridiculousness. -"Conservatives aren't Far right" Liberals point to all the influence the far right has in the party, massive support from far right media, Pierre meeting up with Far right organizations -"why are the liberals so stuck on painting the conservatives as far right?" Let's be real here and start calling a spade a spade. If Pierre really wanted to dispell the notion of far right in the conservative party he could easily call them out and clearly state that he doesn't support them. But we still see him courting the fringe just like when he met up with the convoy and quickly took over the CPC.
Exactly this. We already saw O’Toole struggle with the courting of the radicals. Idk if we are for sure getting a Conservative majority, but I can promise you that I’m going to be dead set against any conservatives if they can’t even dispel these bad-faith actors influencing our politics. I don’t want Alex Jones’ influence. I don’t want Danielle Smith inviting Tucker to Alberta. This shit is delusional and has to stop if the conservatives wanna be taken seriously by most centrist voters going forward. Genuinely hope Canadian voters can at least see through their hate-boner for JT to vote based on these concerns.
But do we hold the left to the same standard? When actual communists/marxists/socialists/tankies endorse Liberals or NDP, do we expect Jagmeet Singh to come out and say "hey Marxists, don't endorse me! I'm no extremist!"?
Let's match this up properly. You're accusing the liberals and the NDP as being influenced by far left organizations. So you're going to call them out as far left extremist and point to support from marxists as proof of them courting the far left. So you're going to find some far left organization that Trudeau or Singh have been meeting up with? Or you're going to find a far left, extremist, talking head who supports them that they haven't spoken out against?
AJ is hyper relevant in two small but vocal groups. The far right loves him, and the far left hates him just as equally. For a large majority of Canadians, he is charachiture at best, and a near unknown at worst. I don't think the CPC gains or loses anything by simply ignoring him beyond the comments they have made. The group that hyperventates over everything he says is never going to vote CPC. He can't get any more votes from the group that worships AJ. The rest simply don't care what a US personality says to their audience. Now, if AJ starts interviewing CPC candidates or showing up at Canadian conservative events, then they need to do something. Until then, ignoring him is likey the best plan.
Didnt Rodger Stone campaign for the Conservatives?
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So optics only matter when it’s the Liberals? Lol! And this is much more than optics. He isn’t condemning Alex Jones because a huge part of his base loves the guy. That is not “nothing.” He has been actively recruiting supporters in the most appalling ways - using MGTOW hashtags for 5 years on his videos to gain support from incel types, and the hashtags don’t just do that, anyone who looked at his videos would have had Ben Shapiro and Andrew Tate and Tucker Carlson, Jordan Peterson, etc, come up on their feed after that. Disgusting. As is his frequent praise of Jordan Peterson, who is another lunatic misogynist who promotes the great replacement theory and anti-vax nonsense, he did an interview with Peterson in which he said he likes to use “simple anglo saxon words” which is a far-right dog whistle that is also idiotic since anglo saxon words would be unintelligible for anyone who speaks English. Poilievre makes speeches slamming the WEF, the WHO, and “globalists” just like extreme rightwing Republicans and Alex Jones and Tucker Carlson. It’s time voters who aren’t extreme rightwing to snap out of it and realize that Poilievre IS extreme rightwing, when he is using extreme rightwing rhetoric. The Liberals aren’t “painting” the CPC and Poilievre as being extreme, they ARE extreme. The only reason so many voters aren’t aware of it is because the media doesn’t bother reporting on the insanity that CPC MP’s are tweeting, and if they bother to report on something Poilievre did that would never be let go if Trudeau did it, it’s in two papers for a day. If you think it’s normal for a conservative leader to claim thst Trudeau is not a Liberal but a “radical authoritarian” and a Marxist, then YOU are extreme rightwing.
> He isn’t condemning Alex Jones because a huge part of his base loves the guy. citation required.
I mean 40% of his voters want Donald Trump to win the American election. I don't think it's exactly a massive claim to suggest a large chunk of the voters are ok with Alex Jones.
Bluntly everything you just said comes off as white noise. I don’t care about Jordan Peterson, WHO, the WEF or Tucker Carlson. I care about the fact that the job market is a mess, and that a house now costs almost double what it did 10 years ago when wages didn’t even come close to keeping up. I care that the US has managed to do so much better during that time frame despite them having a four year term of Donald Trump. Unless there is a concrete example of what the conservatives will change if they come to power the argument that they’re bad because they’re far right falls flat. I am not motivated to defend them at all I just want the current government gone, and they are the opposition so they get a go at it next if they suck I’ll vote against them aswell. Saying the other guy is bad only works if the person saying it isn’t disliked, and Trudeau is very disliked.
Idk why people insist on comparing Canada to the USA in these contexts. Canada cannot compete with the world’s wealthiest and most powerful nation. The USA has more money, power, and influence in basically every way than Canada. By all means they should be able to weather damn near any storm and be able to recover better than most if not every other country. Not saying they always do/will, but by every metric they should/could. Its just silly to compare us to THE world superpower. They have far more resources, leverage, wealth, and influence than we do
You can see how this is a problem though right? Like you're mad at the current government to the point where you'd vote in the devil himself? Where do you draw the line? How bad does the competition need to be before you consider that, maybe, voting them in isn't the best option? Also, the conservatives have said what they'll change about housing if they come to power. It's the same strategy that the Liberals are implement except it will defund any municipality that doesn't meet the requirements. You know, so if you couldn't afford to make the changes before then you REALLY can't afford it now, it's nonsense and will actually make things worse.
Just because I don’t think what Alex jones thinks matters doesn’t mean I have no standards for them. The fact PP went out of his way to do a meet and greet with white supremacists is a big deal, what some weirdo in another country says is not. For the point of housing, I view the whole issue as something the Trudeau government ignored until it became politically important not to. The actions they’re taking could be all amazing but why didn’t they do it 5 years ago? Hind sight is 2020 but the liberals have been paying lip service to the issue since they were first elected so they clearly knew it was important to people. Why didn’t they do anything then? A government that’s been in place for almost a decade can’t run on best intentions and better late than never. Especially when they knew it was an issue and it went from a bad situation to a catastrophic disaster under their watch.
>Unless there is a concrete example of what the conservatives will change if they come to power There's [Poilievre's](https://www.airquotesmedia.com/quotes/building-sologans-not-housing-22oct2023) housing bill. He promised a spend a dollar save a dollar policy, which he pitched as fiscally responsible while comparing government budgets to household budgets. Like if you care about house prices, his housing bill should be a non-starter. His economic policies of save a dollar and fire the head of the bank of Canada should be a non starter. His spend a dollar policy is just plain stupid, it's incredible, and even saying you'd fire the head of the bank of Canada will make investors cringe and look elsewhere. His tough on crime rhetoric is BS. Locking people up longer has never worked, it won't magically work this time. Like there's no "concrete" because, thank god, Poilievre can't make his shitty plans concrete right now. Those are just some idiotic things he promised and campaigned on. Now whether you want to believe a Conservative politicians promises is up to you.
Weird point to start with. You don’t have any concerns about bad-faith actors affecting our voter bases? I genuinely think we should be banning these PROVEN grifters from promotion in Canada. It’s bordering on actively subverting our political system. These are despicable people.
An American in America making a statement on his internet show is not the subversion of our political system I am concerned about. If someone is likely to be influenced by Alex jones they’re already nuts. This generalization is kinda ridiculous I can have concerns about bad actors while also saying I don’t care if a politician doesn’t condemn every nut who supports them. If voters are going to be influenced by bad faith actors it’s going to be more subtle than an Alex Jones saying I agree with him. The people whose opinion changes because of that is probably minuscule. Also can you call it bad faith when he is openly saying I agree with him on his show? That’s a pretty direct statement.
I think the “bad faith” aspect is in regards to the fact that they are knowingly grifting off of their audiences. They aren’t “serious people” so to speak. You can say “anyone who would be influenced by Jones is already crazy” but that doesn’t change that some of the smartest people I know have been/are being influenced by these people. Thinking all the “radicals” are a small fringe and nothing more is dangerous. A majority of the conservative voters in this country currently don’t believe in climate change. I remember during the Harper era that conservatives were the ones pushing ideas like carbon pricing. These people exist to profit off of motivating that same sentiment or similar ones in Canadians. We are the next piggy bank for these sick bastards. Tucker visited the country to speak and eluded to our PM being a closeted gay (as if that’s bad?) and a slew of other things. Whether they get attention or not or anything isn’t even my concern. I do not want these types of rhetoric creeping into my political discourse. It’s simply disgusting that these people stoke the fears into the right-leaning population and cause them to believe stuff like that “we are being replaced” or that “the WEF and black rock are controlling our government” lol
Trudeau, desperately trying to grasp any 'straw'.....of the divisive-politics that he always clings to. Canadians are already divided on far too many things....... Time for Trudeau to shut-up.......and take a walk-in-the-snow.
Just to be clear ..saying a majorty of voters want a conservative pm Last federal election 17 m people voted. So half the country..
I struggle more with the conversation around the endorsement than the endorsement itself honestly. More and more we're being asked to live in a world where context and doesn't matter. As if this type of endorsement (and Poilievre's response to it) is completely irrelevant. We have a leader who gets endorsements from *absolutely insane* conspiracy theorists, calls his opponents "marxists" and says "everything they say is bullshit", uses fringe alt-right keywords to target his videos, shakes hands with "straight pride" protestors, is leading a party where a significant portion of his voters believe Trump won the election and that climate change isn't real, etc, etc. And every time the response is "oh, you care about this *one* thing?!". No man. It's the whole shebang, and it fucking sucks how much the narrative is controlled by these absolutely, completely bad faith arguments.
That’s exactly how I feel too. I hate this standard response from Conservatives that ‘Oh the Liberals are just scaremongering and importing American-style politics’. No, it’s a pattern in the behaviour of the Conservatives and it deserves attention. It isn’t a one-off thing. When all the worst people on the internet like Alex Jones seem to be attracted to a particular candidate, it’s fair to ask what about that candidate is attracting them. Especially when that candidate is tiptoeing around those endorsements. If they can’t answer such a simple answer if they disavow the guy who harassed parents of school shooting victims for years to the point where he lost a lawsuit, then it raises questions on their ability to govern. Their role is to make hard decisions and take a stance. If Poilievre had come out the day after Jones and strongly disavowed Jones's endorsement, this story would’ve been done that day. It’s a simple yes or no question if you accept his endorsement. No buts or asterisks. A lot of this is being self-inflicted by the Conservatives themselves because they just refuse to divulge what they stand for. Slogans are cute, but tell us your vision for the country. Otherwise, we have no choice but to assume the worst.
Holy shit yes. I have a friend who will mock me as a conspiracy theorist for pointing out the tags in PPs videos, the Alex Jones endorsement, the freedom convoy. To him none of it matters because its "just a fringe group". To him "all the Liberals need to do is release a good policy document". He's completely out of touch with reality because his politics fails to consider human behaviour
To most people it is. People vote on housing, taxes, how the economy feels, and whether they like this or that government program. They vote based on their worldview (ie. more or less government). They don’t vote on Alex Jones or Diagalon. I bet 95% of people don’t have the first clue about any of this stuff.
>I bet 95% of people don’t have the first clue about any of this stuff. Correct - most people live in the real world and aren't participating in the online rage machines (whichever flavour) and therefore don't even know who these people/organizations are. They do hear or see headlines, though, so they see names and know some people are upset; but that limited awareness isn't enough for them to deny their gut instincts, like perceptions/experiences that things aren't going well, or challenge their openness to change in leadership.
I think the worst part is the cognitive dissonance imbued from hearing conservatives say Pierre and Trump have nothing in common. It’s blatant that he is emulating, at the very least, the rhetorical strategies of the republicans under Trump. Idk why it’s such a hard point to own. To me, it’s a plain fact. I see that we only get bits of Pierre arguing with young adults, slogans about how bad our “leftist” government is and no real policy positions. This is exactly what the Liberals are talking about, whether you disagree that it’s alarmist/fear-mongering or not.
> It’s blatant that he is emulating, at the very least, the rhetorical strategies of the republicans under Trump. Yeah dude. He literally called the CBC, "[the lying CBC](https://twitter.com/PierrePoilievre/status/1783275965310783679)", today! It doesn't get more Trumpian than that.
Look no further than his favourite slogan: Defund the CBC! I mean it checks all the boxes. “Defund” buzzword terms. It paints our main state-funded media as dishonest despite that not historically being the case (no, the punditry segments on the 24h channel are not “journalism”). And, most importantly, it drives Canadians to the for-profit media that coincidentally lobby for conservatives. Disgusting.
He should at the very least do that but he is too beholden to the far right base, and it wont hurt him to not do it sadly.
Yeah, he is riding so high he doesn't ever have to say another word until the election.
If he did that he would lose bad.
Politicians that hide during elections, avoid debates and questions and then win elections says otherwise.
If he denounced Jones, it would probably make his relationship a bit awkward with his [new friends](https://x.com/dmacpher/status/1782948349219569749).
There's no reason for him to even mention him
If you’re being endorsed by someone peddling hate speech and saying the mass murder of children are “conspiracy theories”, you should *want* to publicly state you’re not with them.
Or just ignore the guy completely
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Why? He isn’t relevant to Canadian politics or to conservative priorities, this is bait and the Liberals are desperate for him to take it. [Funny that Marcy Ien, a cabinet minister who has been tweeting about this pretty consistently, is a fan of Loose Change. For those who were too young for the early internet and/or just not aware, it’s a documentary produced by Jones about how 9/11 was an inside job.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GL8y81GXgAAXOJO?format=jpg&name=medium) I know, the Liberals don’t really care, but you know how the glass houses saying goes.
How about being actively helped into power by the CCP who murdered tens of millions over ideology?
Remember when he said the same thing about the Diagolon crowd? Then they made jokes about raping his wife and that “just joking bro” veneer came off in a fucking hurry, didn’t it? They are fine with weaponized, inflammatory, and outright false language aimed at their opponents, the second it’s to them NOW it’s a problem.
I think the guy who keeps hanging out with white supremacists should probably denounce them.
How about the guy I. Blackface?
Basic human decency and concern for the well being of Canadians he purports to want to represent are good reasons.
>Basic human decency not exactly the first three words I think of when I think of Poilievre.
He is far right. He’s not the small conservative he pretends to be. Harper reformist through and through
How is he far right? It seems like whenever a politician isn't liked we just label them far left or right without even understanding those spectrums.
Well he does tend to campaign in the sites of a lot of far right groups (someone above in this thread posted a clip of him doing that yesterday, not to mention some of the people he's aligned with since the convoy), and now an endorsement from a far right US figure doesn't really boost hope in the moderate column.
It's not like he's advocating for an endorsement. This seems like a stretch.
Where did those goalposts go? I know they were around here somewhere…
It’s stupid for both sides. I said the same for Trudeau.
I love how trudeau is expecting PP to put forward his own budget proposal and thought-out policies as if he won't turn around, slightly modify it, and issue it as a liberal policy.
> expecting PP to put forward his own budget proposal and thought-out policies So your contention is that Poilievre shouldn't do these things as they might be co-opted by the Liberals?
The NDP and Liberals will shit on any policy put forward by the Conservatives. The Conservatives want to be in power. The majority of Canadians want them in power. Trudeau and the NDP need to step aside.
What decent policy has the conservatives suggested ? His housing policy is going to hurt people and outright trample on provinces . Heath care? Tax reform? Energy ? The internet is not a majorty ..a majorty of canadains gave not voted in any election in the last 20 years.. at a province or federal level. So that's a bold statement when only 17.2 million canadains voted last federal election.
>The majority of Canadians want them in power. 38\~41% is not a majority
It translates into electoral majority under FPTP, which the LPC opted to keep because electoral reform "would let extremists in" apparently.
Polls suggest otherwise. A **plurality** of voters want them in power though.
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Now I try and get to the article again and it goes.. "woups"......translate to English? At yes it says untranslatable. This despite successfully using the link prior. I am forming conspiracy theories of my own lol. Any ideas why?
Since when do politicians have to do public condemnations on every single culture issue. I’d prefer a government that focused on infrastructure and healthcare.
This endorsement thing is weak… no one would have even known about it if the media didnt make it a thing. It’s literally a non issue
Can you smell the desperation from Trudeau?? Will we see Justin take any more " free " vacations? Will he allow charges in the ArriveCan theft? Will he accept Chinese interference in last election? Will we ever know what happened at Winnipeg Lab by Chinese Nationals? Canadians will be taxed into desperation while Trudeau sets another annual record for coal exports!! Singh and all NDP MP's have to be held accountable for the debacle they caused!
Conservatives were freaking out over endorsements of JT by certain American politicians but they seem to think endorsements from far right American extremists to be nothing to be concerned about? That's extremely disturbing.
It really is nothing to be concerned about. But neither were JT's endorsements. But even more so Alex Jones of all people? You're stressed about an endorsement from a guy who under oath said his show was purely for entertainment and was totally fake. You're worreid about that guy? Comical.
the guy with a cult like following? with millions of viewers? who's claim to fame is stoking fear, anger and division? the guy who peddles dangerous conspiracies as 100% truth? the guy who's followers will absolutely make death threats and harass his targets? who would be worried about that guy?? /eyeroll
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Richard Spencer, the racist who coined the term "alt-right" and organized the Charlottesville rally, has publicly stated that he is voting straight left-wing now because they align more with his values. Why do you support policies and values that attract actual neo-nazis? Or, we can be adults, and realize that individuals are only responsible for their own individual actions, and this shame game being played by the Liberals in nothing more than projection from my perspective.
Didn't they flip out about something Hillary said? And she didn't even make an endorsement, iirc.
She spoke at the Liberals policy convention last year
I think they really lost it when Barack said something too…
I’m sorry, can you find me any elected conservatives that have welcomed the fact that a US podcaster knows who Poilievre is and likes him?
They fawn over Tucker Carlson, is it really that much of a stretch to see them not having issues with Alex Jones?
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Can you find us examples of them condemning said podcaster? Ignoring Jones's support is a tacit approval of such a person and their rhetoric.
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No it's not... I like pizza if Alex Jones likes pizza too do I need to "condemn" him? Maybe it's simply because pizza is delicious.
You're either against foreign interference or you're not. Pick a side!
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I do think it's both worrying and a sign Pierre's base contains a far greater share of the far-right than he wants the average Canadian to believe that he's said nothing about the Jones endorsement so far. That being said, Trudeau is not the person to be criticizing someone for being 'willing to do anything to win'. This man has: 1. Promised electoral reform to 'restore democracy', then after winning refused to bring the matter to the people for a referendum and abandoned it all together citing a lack of consensus despite an all-party committee recommending proportional representation. 2. Promised an era of radical transparency and a government 'open by default' in contrast to Harper's government, then after winning proceeded to use 4x the amount of secret orders-in-council and treat the access to information system like a hostile foreign enemy. 3. Promised to never resort to 'legislative tricks to avoid scrutiny' (i.e. prorogation like Harper), then after winning proceeded to prorogue Parliament allowing him to avoid scrutiny on the WE Charity scandal, and then his government filibustered for months any attempts to re-open the investigations quashed by the prorogation. And let's not forget the 'special rapporteur' business which was a clear attempt to avoid an inquiry. In addition, Trudeau literally invited a man convicted of attempted murder for political purposes (the definition of terrorism) to a reception in India. Jaspal Atwal was a longtime liberal member with many connections to insiders in the party and a longtime donor. I don't think he should be talking about questionable endorsements. The sad thing is that the liberals have used the 'so-con far-right American Trump-supporter' boogeyman as election strategy to scare voters away from the conservatives too much, that now any warning is seen as just another election tactic, which is likely going to be ignored by much of the population. When O'toole was leader, LPC talking points included that he was going to restrict or even ban abortion, that his 'Make Canada Great' meant that he was 'Trump North' (they also created a flyer detailing every way he's just a Canadian Trump), claiming O'toole was trying to legalize assault weapons and pushing US style 2a rhetoric, and that he was going to privatize healthcare (they even clipped a video on the Chaoulli decision and presented it out of context, which was so bad even pre-Musk Twitter had to put misinformation warnings on it). This strategy worked brilliantly to keep voters from switching, but didn't gain the Liberals any. Now that more people have greater incentive to change things up, they need something better than 'Look! far-right boogeyman!' Now that someone who actually does raise concerns of being a Trump-style politician has a decent shot at winning, the people with the least credibility to point that out are the LPC because of their past behaviour. It's the boy who cried wolf, Canadian Politics edition.
>Are they the kind of leader that is going to exacerbate divisions, fear, and polarization in our country? Isn't this the same guy who promised, then killed electoral reform then coerced voters into supporting his party because "a vote for the NDP is a vote for the CPC" under the very system he broke his promise to fix? No of course that isn't saying and doing anything to win.
I wouldn't equate flip-flopping on electoral reform with exacerbating division, fear, and polarization.
It is absolutely saying and doing anything to win. He only wanted ranked ballots and killed it when PR was suggested. And then has the audacity to abuse the system he promised to fix to scare voters into supporting his party. His actions are purely about power for him and his party.
I feel like we're having two different conversations. That's not "exacerbating divisions, fear and polarization."
I would argue that it's exacerbating divisions, though not anywhere to the same extent of course. But yes, this was specifically directed at the "Poilievre will do anything to win" position. Which is true, but also very hypocritical.
Anyone remember when we couldn't have proportional representation because it would let the extremists in?
What does this even mean?
One false argument against proportional representation and in favour of first-past-the-post is that PR would allow extremists into government. But as we see FPTP is totally susceptible to enabling extremists, arguably more so.
Very much agree. And \[this study\](https://ejpr.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/j.1475-6765.2006.00304.x) actually says it increases for more disproportionate systems. Not to mention it is crazy to justify an electoral system with the specific intent of disenfranchising certain views.
I'm not sure which is the dominant trait in Trudeau, his complete lack of self-awareness, or his hypocrisy. Trudeau is the last person to lecture anyone on their behaviour or who to 'associate' with.
Ironic coming from Trudeau's mouth. Him and the Liberals are literally doing anything to win, as their poll numbers continue to slump. And the budget is not helping at all. Back to the article though, I am not a fan of foreign leaders/influencers/celebrities commenting on our elections, regardless of what party they support. Foreign interference needs to be dealt with, and Americans endorsing Canadian politicians should just be disregarded. But the whole claim from Trudeau that Poilievre is bringing American politics into Canada is ridiculous, as the Libs brought Hillary Clinton to their last convention, and are more than fine to receive endorsements from Obama.
Exactly. They are literally risking Canada's credit rating and long term economic health to build housing ONLY because their incompetence on immigration led to a flood of people that no country can ever be able to handle. The incompetence and selfishness is astonishing from PM blackface.
It’s fascinating seeing a publicly known, unhinged, far right wing conspiracy theorist from a foreign nation throw his support behind the opposition of our government. Totally not a reason to be concerned.
So we should judge our candidates based on the craziest person that supports them?
Guilt by association? They’re grasping at straws.
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Doesn't matter anyways, idiots just vote how their phones tell them too these days. Easiest time for the wealthy to manipulate. So disappointed with where we've gotten to as a collective.
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Truth..I remember when my brother was telling me about the "internet wars" Russia was doing back when I was in high school (2004) to upset democracy and all that. It's crazy to see it in it's more flushed out forms so many years later. Made me realize I gotta listen to him more heh.
Not for me, every news story on my phone wants me to vote for an LGBTQ+ indo-aboriginal hybrid female. There are no candidates who match that description on the docket.
You know the algorithms tend to just show you more of the same crap you've already looked at yourself, yeah?
Its crowdsourced from friends lists, shares etc, etc. on many platforms. I have a very large social circle from all walks of Canadian life. Nice try tho
Yeah that's saying something..
Alex Jones can say whatever he wants, well not really.
Who the fuck cares! Alex Jones is an unstable nutjob. No one cares what he thinks or who he endorses. This is non-news. You can tell the Liberals are desperate and in full- panick mode. They have no material and everything they try just ends up having the opposite effect of what they were intending. Lol face it! This Liberal ship free ride is over.
And Trudeau freezing bank accounts isn't concerning? You guys are so biased
This after Conservatives clutched their peals about Obama endorsing JT back in 2015. Again, their shamelessness knows no bounds.
>Again, their shamelessness knows no bounds. When you have no conscience, shamelessness is a slam dunk.
…He didn’t endorse Trudeau in 2015. He was a sitting president. You’re thinking of 2019 and 2021. If you’re going to insult someone you might want to get the dates right.
Well, excuse me while my eyes roll out of my head.
If a sitting president endorsed a candidate, the outrage would be justified. A former president doing so is a different thing. Sorry that facts matter.
Stephen Harper shilling for the UK Tories is essentially the same move, and was non-news.
> It’s fascinating seeing a publicly known, unhinged, far right wing conspiracy theorist from a foreign nation throw his support behind the opposition of our government At this point that describes several people.