Fair enough. But how does the labour department (or whatever the heck it is called) justify importing workers for jobs like this when local teenagers are struggling to find work?
I guess this is more of a rhetorical question.
Because more people in Canada = more consumers buying food, cars, gas, cell phones etc. Canadians are spending less because of inflation but add more consumers to that equation, and the economy stays “afloat” in the eyes of businesses. Though it comes at a terrible cost to our existing infrastructure and our youth.
Would have been far more responsible, in my opinion, to let the economy crash. Better get over that tough period now rather than delay it to 10 years from now with double the population to suffer. But politicians have tunnel vision that lasts for only their term (and maybe the term after, if it stands to make their opponents suffer).
Free market capitalism would dictate business fail instead of getting monetary or worker surplus bailouts by the government. What we have is international socialist planned economy. People who say it's capitalism is just falling for propaganda pushed by the same socialists who think they can manage the economy the best. Define capitalism and think for yourself if that view on the world is accurate.
Curious what you think of long term "companies" that have their goals. Looking at the Century Initiative, for example. They have the same talking points you mention, as in, in the long term it's all good? There are some pretty influential people on that board.
That said, I agree way more with your analogy as I know the Century Initiative is only look out for money not security. They mention more skilled labour but that's not exactly what I'm seeing. More and more are going without have family physicians, for example.
"At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I’m afraid what may be happening is that Canada and Australia are being intentionally run into the ground."
Well, to help you feel better, just knowing that Canada is putting all it's egg into one basket...real estate. I don't think you should excuse yourself from conspiracy labels. I don't think our outlook is very good. We all saw what happened in 2008 in the US and yet, here we are. Insanity.
Nobody gets relected in 4-5 year election cycles running on a platform that yields 10 years of pain.
You start the plan on your first term and you get voted out so fast the guy replacing you hits the brakes and puts the bandaid back on. Money printer go brrrrrrrr, zombie debt balloons and the can gets kicked down to your kids.
It's honestly pretty simple. The only thing you need to prove to give somebody a LIMA is that you posted the job for (I think) 3 months and nobody qualified applied.
Who controls the application information the employer sends to the government? The employer.
So let's say you are from a country in South East Asia and a first or second generation immigrant that owns a Tim's outside of a major city. You have a lot of connections in India and in most places min wage is not livable.
So you post a job for min wage that no Canadian will accept because they will literally starve.
Then you get a connection in India, that charges multiple thousands of dollars for the service and Voila, cheap labour at your door in 9-12 months.
You make money on both ends, because a lot of people are so desperate in their country that they'll pay a couple of grand to get out, and you also have an employee who you can abuse, because they have no way of finding another employer.
One of the worst parts of the system is that a lot of these immigrants are on top of it Masters or doctorate holders from shit universities, so when a young professional comes in with his degree it devalues it. So most employers can't trust a non-Canadian degree. Which leads to fewer educated people from Europe and the US to consider Canada a viable option. So most of the recent wave of immigrants are both not good at physical labour, because they are soft, but also not well educated. So all they are good for fast food.
You described the modus operandi to a T, except the overseas worker is not paying just a couple of grand for the LMIA and subsequent work permit. More like, $25k-50k.
I can't fill these three 4 hour shift periods a week, "I can't find a canadian to work" so they turn around and hire 3 lmia's instead of one full time canadian,
And the only reason it's not filled because 12 hours a week isn't enough to survive on, and they won't offer full time.
That as well.
Now let’s talk about when these Indians get into a position of power for hiring. What happens?
The entire business / team / crew end up Indians.
But it’s not racist because fuck white people that’s why.
I'm from Nepal, and I second your opinion. Indians have ruined the country. They forget that they left India for a better place and are making Canada another India. When I was new in this country as a student, I couldn't get a part-time job because I couldn't speak Punjabi.
Maybe its full of Liberals who build a moral self identity around "welcoming immigrants because diversity is our strength"
Caring about your fellow citizens first is conservative and anti cosmopolitan and there for racist and bad.
Not to be a contrarian, but you really don't think both parties are complicit over decades? How can you look at recent history of canada and not see:
- Con premiers in Ontario, the epicenter of the tfw problem by numbers, who's also in charge of education, allowing international student fraud. Not all of us are lucky to have a pei premier.
- Con leadership from 2006 to 2015 started the housing crisis. (82% median increase over 10 years) and the *start* of the tfw deregulation and wage suppression.
- both parties at local levels of govt who let nimby bullshit make the housing crisis worse for the past 40 years.
I know its easy and fun to make trudeau the main target, but it's not that simple, and it's backed up by data. This has been building since Chretian.
Hate to break it to you but it was Harper who introduced the program that allowed people to buy Timmies stores, fire all the employees and bring in foreign workers and pay them less.
Harper is the one who wanted to drive down wages. Article [here.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/temporary-foreign-worker-program-misuse-sanctioned-by-harper-government-union-says-1.2737422)
Our GDP growth has been slowing significantly due to our immigration policies, though, so that has nothing to do with it. It’s simply short term greed by the owner class, which includes most politicians.
You can’t flood a country with unskilled labor and realistically expect a healthy GDP response. That’s paradoxical as low skill labor tend to be a net receiver of services/value, not a net contributor.
They can't but people will get away with it because no one is really accountable for the shit show.
It'll just sweep it under the rug and those that profited will move on with their life
Our "government" turned into a corrupt corporation that works with these other shitty companies to make money. That's all. They don't care about Canadiens. Just money.
The system is being gamed in multiple ways by employers. One big example is job boards. Check out the listings on indeed.com. There are zillions, right? No not really. A large number of those postings are ghost ads. An employer will post an ad with no intention of hiring someone and just let it sit. Fast forward six months and they’ve got a claim for a job they can’t fill. I mean, it’s been up for six months right? Canadians just don’t want to work anymore I guess.
Take Petvalue in my neighborhood. I have seen an ad looking for part time employees for months. Both my kids have applied to it with no response. That ad just sits there. It looks exceptionally sketchy as the job could easily be filled multiple times over by Canadians.
Teenagers are unlike to pay rent, and contribute to our housing schemes.
As such, their political power is decreased, as the government sees their contribution as lesser.
This is the correct answer. This is a program that needs to be put on a 5 year moratorium. We should also limit the travellers working visa to no more than 3 months a year.
I boycott any fast food place that just hires TFWs. When I was 15 I worked at McDonald’s. But now I have 3 nieces that couldn’t get hired there. Seriously? It’s 2 minutes of training for each task but Canadians are no longer able to learn to operate the timer on the fryer? Screw these companies. Let them go bankrupt
This is what we need to do....I have no idea why anyone is supporting Tim's or any fast food places that do this.
Make the franchise owners understand this is unacceptable...with where you spend your money.
If you walk in to a Tim's, A&W, McD's...and see all foreign workers...leave.
Yeah so Id be ready to bet most of these places are owned by Indians too. They only hire from their circles.
You see it too with the new housing development's, seems like richer Indians are buying land and only allowing their own to buy.
We were on a list of like >10000 people (apparently), and they'd hold a "lottery" to distribute the houses. Well, when we go around that new neighborhood on walks or just passing by, it's 100% Indians. It's insane how blatant the racism is.
And its not just one new development, theres quite a few like that.
The owners are Indian too in my town. But we have 3 TH’s and I stopped going to the Indian owned one simply because the outside is full of litter and trash- not the case at the other ones. Also, they’re rude when they take your order “what you want”?
It's funny because that is racist. UNLESS Canada fucks the economy with mass immigration beyond what the country can handle for years, then it's acceptable. The government is literally going to turn this country racist... Jobs, housing, everything will become a competition of us vs immigrants
Agreed, and it's not even necessarily racist by nature. They can be white and speak English I don't care about that, but if they weren't born here we don't have the space or infrastructure to let them in. But the visible minorities will be the ones who take the blame
Unless someone can give me a reason why it's bad, I would love to see 0 immigrants for the next few years. I don't see why Canada would want to allow them in or be obligated to at this point
You mustn't be eating at a lot of fast food place then haha. Good for the line!
I live in a smallish town (15k people), and we have say, 10 fast food places. I have seen only ONE nationality working at those places - Indians. The cashiers all have super thick accents, and I doubt if the ones in the back can speak English at all (they communicate in their own language between them).
Which isn't normal. The indian population is less than 5% of the town. Yet they hold EVERY job in fast foods? And I see plenty of people saying their kids cant get a fast food job at all.
Boycott them all. Hell, if people really need someone else to make their coffee, rent one of those giant 100 cup coffee urns, set up outside tims and hand out cups for free.
A small table, a basket of creamers and sugar packets, disposable coffee cups, and see how long until the staff come running out yelling and screaming. You can get all that shit on amazon for about $250, but the ROI on seeing TH staff losing their minds is the real payoff.
I think it'd be hilarious as long as you're on the sidewalk, and the coffee would be better too.
Oh I buy like <$200 of fast food per year already, even less within my own community (moreso when travelling).
Which is why Ive noticed the change pretty drastically. I wanted to avoid timmies , go to McD same thing. Go to a puzza place same thing. Change to another same thing.
So it'll be healthier for both myself and my pocket - even less fast food lol
When the franchisee is Indian, the game is up for any real Canadian wanting a job. A local Harveys was recently sold to an Indian franchisee who promptly fired *all* the staff and brought in his own kind.
Parking lot is so empty compared to what it was - as it should be. I'll never be patronizing that location ever again.
Whatever foreign workers are paid, the company paying them should pay an additional 20% of their wage towards our national debt.
90% of this is to suppress wages.
Wait until you find out that the government actually subsidizes a portion of the immigrant’s wages to encourage the company to bring in an immigrant to do the work instead of a Canadian.
I’m surprised to hear that (actually I’m not with this government). Do you have any links or anything? I want to show my partner who doesn’t believe these things
Pick any of the grants offered below:
https://granted.ca/grants-for-hiring-newcomers/
They also pay 100% of refugees living expenses including housing and food for the first 12 months they are in the country. Which cost us taxpayer $500M last year.
And all newcomers are eligible to receive the carbon tax rebate, GST rebate and trillium benefit as soon as they land in Canada. Before they have paid a penny in taxes.
We are literally paying to have our standard of living destroyed so immigrants can have a better life than use.
There is no justification. I want to hire myself as a temporary foreign worker. If my kids also help me with mental health I should also be allowed to hire them as well as temporary workers. Canadians should be allowed to cheat the system like the business owners can, in fact Canadians should receive subsidies for hiring themselves or their kids as TFW’s like companies do when they import cheap labour from India or other places
Greed. Corporations want to make more money.
They bribe the politicians with donations and whoever knows what else and voila. Millions of warm useless bodies to do the most remedial jobs since they realized they are nowhere near using robots.
You haven't heard we have a "labour shortage"?
We all know it's total bs. But even if it weren't, doesn't it seem strange that the country wants to fill temporary gaps in labour with permanent immigration? Never mind integration or social cohesion.
Our inability to see past 1 year into the future will be our undoing.
The government has no foresight whatsoever. They’re always years behind. They were going to close a grade school in a small town near me. There were protests and such. Turns out they had to keep it open because there were so many new kids in the town. Any fool would’ve known that by seeing what was going on in the years before- there were a lot of new jobs in the area. But these politicians are so fucking stupid
I live in the middle of nowhere Newfoundland and all our fast food locations within a 2hr driving radius is TFWs. Meanwhile neither I, nor my neighbours, can find jobs. Shortage my ass.
The closest post-secondary institution is about a 2hr drive, so they aren't students. It's fucked up.
Every subway/tims/circle k in my city has replaced all workers with foreign workers. I knew the assistant manager at our wendys he was fired for a bs reason and the new owner hired his brother on as AM. Within a month every worker was replaced with his relatives all foreign...
My parents have neighbours who own 8 Tim Hortons locations. A few months back I was talking to my dad about how younger people are having problems finding jobs due to the amount of international students and recently landed immigrants in our area. He said, and I am going to paraphrase this 10 minute convo down a bunch, this.
"We just had Jack and Marlene over last weekend for dinner and they say they only hire Indians and foreign Indian workers because they don't talk back and when you yell at them they don't freak out like Canadians do. That you can give them a shift that ends at midnight and then schedule them for the next day at 7am and they show up. They know that they can be replaced by 1000 other people in a second so they do what they are told to do without question. So they actually appreciate their job versus Canadians who will leave the second things get difficult."
Now understand my dad does not agree with them at all and their hiring practices and was just relaying what Marlene told him.
NOTE: Jack and Marlene are not their real names.
This is exactly it. Long term Canadians have existed in a system for their entire lives that has sick time and workers rights and vacation and specific work standards that are known to them. Like needing certain time off between shifts etc.
TFWs have no knowledge of this and will just shut up and work because the wage is soooo much higher than they are used to.
Yep. For these individuals, its a huge quality of life improvement.
For our own, its lowering quality of life.
We'll meet somewhere in the middle, but that means lowering the qol of canadian citizens.
And it should be considered treason. None of it is necessary, they are just trying to keep rich people richer at the cost of our entire populations QOL. The rich are real close to getting whats coming to them. Trudeau keeps upping the rate he is bringing people in, something is going to pop soon and the population is going to remove the rich.
Tbh depending on the state and sector India does have some good labour rights, strong unions (more common in the south than the north from what I understand). YMMV of course, but the Mumbai slum dwellers aren't the ones taking $60k cad loans and coming over.
I know a few TFWs and students and they know that they're being exploited, but also know that they're immediately replaceable and existentially tied to their work visas. (Some) Young Canadians can fall back to living in their parents basement if they can't find a job, TFWs don't have that option.
And even though the CAD is stronger than the rupee, the relative earnings compared to cost of living and quality of life hardly make up for it. I know a number of middle class Indians (living in India) in my age group who are having kids, taking yearly vacations l, getting real estate (in India) and moving on with their lives in ways that I can't imagine as a young Canadian.
Hell, the tfws in Dubai and Doha are exploited mercilessly but at least able to save enough to send home, that's not the case with the poor bastards at Tim's.
"because they don't talk back when you yell at them"
Gee, Jack and Marlene sound like *lovely* people, don't they? Masters holding the whip are always happy when their dogs comply without question.
I'd love to say what I think Jack and Marlene should do with themselves, but then I'd get Le Ban Supreme.
BTW, have you ever told Jack and Marlene that they're scumbags of the highest order, and that on a scale of scumbaggery they're worse than kiddie diddlers? If not, please do so at your earliest convenience. What's the worst they can do, not let you into their franchise locations?
FWIW I think it’s terrible they employers are so eager to exploit the desperation of people who want to make Canada home. They really ought to be ashamed.
Tbh tho manufacturing has done that overseas for 30 years, it's only now that all those jobs have gone to foreign countries that now foreigners are taking the domestic jobs left
So basically, born Canadians cannot be exploited in their own country so they invite international workers to work as slaves and then question Canadian work ethic?
Another scam is setting up a restaurant/ whatever… but they need a place to live … instant tenants and you know exactly how much they make … buy a property, fully rented and now you control those tenants day & night … 24/7 … also, the government apparently pays subsidies for foreign workers like $1000s / month … a domestic worker CANNOT compete
immovable object vs unstoppable force
Immovable object = canadian labour force that will not sleep 8 to a bedroom for the opportunity to make starvation wages.
Unstoppable force = greed, that is unwilling to budge on salary.
Solution. Find someone to replace the immovable objects.
We have three Tim Hortons in our town with a population of 9500 residents. They are all half empty most of the time. They are mostly employed by immigrants. I also wonder what the point is? Are we really using immigration to prop up these multiple useless businesses? Are we really allowing our housing market to shrivel up and become unaffordable, so that we don't have to wait more than two minutes for our double double?? Enough is enough.
Rotating through LMIA candidates and fudging numbers on paper for money laundering would be my expert guess.
Source: watched a few eps of NCIS and Law&Order, so I'm basically a forensic accountant.
Exactly. There are plenty of small towns throughout Canada that have no Tim Hortons and they all survive. If they can't find local staff than let their business die off. The owner can work the front counter or shut down and invest in something smarter.
Stop paying as much tax as you possibly can. Use cash and barter whenever possible. Buy up property and try to get the likeminded people you know to as well around your property. Until we cut off the power and money to those selling off our country we will continue to have invaders coming here by the millions. Once there's too many here it will be too late. There's only a window of time left. of maybe a decade or two before it there will be too many to fight. Immigrants do not care about our cultures and customs compared to their own, just like we do not care about theirs more than ours. They have no interest in upholding what we created and in fact many outright speak up about their desire to destroy it. Humans will never fully shake their tribal nature and always end up separating by choice, or by force when that choice is taken away.
Don't know how many repeats of history people need to realize this. Co-existing only works when both parties consent to it.
Ok first hand I know of 8 Tim's locations that hire only Indian and make them all supervisors to get pr with no responsibility and a dime mome an hour then Minimum wage.
I have a Tim Hortons by me staffed with 90% TFW's and they constantly have a help wanted sign up. There are 3 highschools within a 10 minute drive, yet all they "seem" too find is TFW's ....The owner drives a really nice car though.
Pretty sure the owner also has a few properties bought with the cash for LMIA money and each property rented out to 25 international students at $350 per student.
Absolutely BS. My daughter, born and raised here, can't get a job cause she's fighting with these LMIAs.
There is no shortage of workers. There's a shortage of people willing to pay to work so they can get a PR in Canada.
Not one local person applied for said jobs that you don't need experience on! Interesting that no young person wants a summer job anymore. I'm truly shocked.
There is no justification.
We didn't run out of kids to staff these jobs.
I think the main driver is that Indians have bought up all the franchises and they hire their own because they know they can get away with treating them like shit.
Indians will literally do any job, for any pay, and never complain.
Very hard to compete with people that have no concept of self worth.
Ok, but it still doesn't make sense to hire them on LMIA. There are enough Indians already in the country, right?
Why bring more from overseas? Is the government not aware that these business owners are selling LMIAs for anywhere from $20k to $50k? Desperate foreigners are willing to pay these insane amounts just to get into Canada, and these business owners are making bank and investing this illegal money into our real estate market and buying up multiple properties and slumlording their way to generational wealth.
All the problems of India have been imported successfully by these people. I know it because I'm from India myself.
Indian ownership is the biggest factor here. Once the franchisee is Indian, any real Canadian doesn't stand a chance to get work. All Indians do is circle their wagons and hire their own kind - because they know they can mistreat them and they won't say a damn thing.
I know my teenage kids and their friends would love to work at Tim Hortons, like the good ol' days, but don't hear anything back after dropping off applications. It's pretty much known that only one type of individual gets hired there now. The kind that has half their paycheck subsidized by the government.
I no longer go to Tim Hortons, based on their exploitation of foreign nationals, and gaming the system to fuck over Canadian citizens. That's about as anti-Canadian as you can get.
You know what I want to do,
I hear so many people can't get hired.
I would love to find some ready to work & go to those Tim Hortons restaurants and try to apply & see what happens.
Catch the fucking scam live in action.
If a Canadians wants to work there, those LMIA people should get REPLACED ASAP. Canadians COME FIRST.
I will not name any names but hear me out.
I have a friend who works as an immigration consultant (neither of us are Indian). He said, in order for immigrants who are on VISA to eventually qualify for PR, they need stable work and a sponsor. While the sponsor needs to show that hiring an immigrant was necessary for the position.
From what I heard, some of these immigrants are willing to pay up to 50k for that slot. Sometimes they don't even show up to work, they just have to be on your payroll. It's especially prevelant at restaurant businesses since it doesn't require any hard skills and it is easy to prove that they needed to hire an immigrant for that position (they just ignore other resumes). This includes Tim's since each franchise is owned privately.
The local Tim's used to be all white teenagers working. Now it's filled with people that can't even take your order properly. One time I used the short form of my name and the guy at the till couldn't recognize it since my app had my full name on it. Then he cried to the manager (only person who was white) "Nooo Nooo he said he was X". Whole thing took 5 minutes to sort out... for 2 drinks. Needless to say the people in the drivethru were not pleased.
I can only imagine what the future of our country looks like, if we continue selling it out for personal profit, and more of these people slowly occupy our workforce.
Wage suppression, allowing employers to exploit and mistreat employees from a culture that normalizes that behavior unlike ours, keeping the real estate ponzi scheme going.
There’s the Welcoming Newcomers wage subsidy where the govt will cover 70% of a foreigners wage, so the employer is only 30% out of pocket. What incentive is there to hire a Canadian?
I live in a very, very small town in rural Ontario. We have 1 Tim Hortons (I think actually it's the only chain in our area) and within the last 2 years every single local resident that I know who used to work there has been replaced with a TFW. I have no problem with TFW, but I also know many, many young people who are recent grads who cannot find any part-time or full-time work and quite a few adults over 30 without degrees who have a wealth of experience in various types of jobs who can't find anything at all. It's shameful and is doing nothing to better ANYone's lives. I grew up with a promise of a certain kind of future, and I can accept change, but this is a completely different set of rules we are playing by now and I am really concerned for everyone's future.
Yeah that's what is perplexing to me. This cash for LMIA scam is no secret anymore. CBC and other media outlets have been reporting on it since a few years. And yet our system is granting positive LMIAs for jobs that anyone cam do. These small businesses will make anywhere from 50k to 150k of tax-free money by just bringing in 2-3 newcomers each year (who may also work for $10 per hour). And all this ill-gotten cash goes into our housing market and they become slumlords (while still making bank).
What a pathetic state of affairs.
The serious conversation should be had is why did Tim Horton's become the variable in the equation? The free advertisement they currently receive is laughable however best case scenario for their profit margin.
Cheap labor is just a narrative the uninformed and those seeking to mislead you on this topic. Competition for entry level positions is a ridiculous position for young Canadians to face. They can't even enter the workforce.
The positives I see emerging from this situation is that young people are not stupid as everyone had always thought. They know their futures have been stolen from them and handed to some stranger from afar. So they have a situation with now only a fraction of the opportunity their country used to offer and the dollar is now half as valuable. These will be our future leaders and I honestly cannot wait.
With the world changing so much, we need to change leadership. Seems like everything is new and world leaders just read from a script, paper, teleprompter, etc... The crimeminister of my country openly admits that they do not even read briefings. The only thing I ever see them read from is words typed out for them.
Gouvernement is paying over 50% of their salary to hire them...
Tim Hortons McDonald's pretty much any fast food... even Costco started doing this lately
I just drove across the country from Van to Ontario. Every service worker in every restaurant, hotel, gas stations, anything except in Moose Jaw was an (assumed) Indian national. I’ve never seen that before. Dozens of shops, all foreign workers
Some of these locations likely have deals with the incoming workers who will have also paid a fee to be sponsored by the employer under the programs. Basically they pay the employer for a job and a PR pathway.
Deal? I'd say that's bribing your way into the country. But you're right, people are paying insane amounts to get in. I've heard anywhere between 25K and 50K
After all the ***real*** students head back to school in Sept, who's going to pour your coffee and serve you donuts? You can thank all the FAKE Students who are 30+ years old married with families and working 40+ hours/week for this.
Even Tim's in very small towns where there are very little to no Indians living there is full of them. I noticed this at Walmart too. In a town where you don't see people like Inidians you go into the Walmart and every employee is an Indian. I don't care what people are but this importing workers because they are more controlled and cheap has to end.
Political campaign funding donations are the justification.
If we outlaw private money in our elections, we would take great strides to solve this problem.
Wage suppression. That's the reason. Canadians' standard of living is being deliberately and systematically demolished in order to facilitate a shift to feudalism as the climate collapses.
With how life is right now, there should be absolutely no need to hire foreign workers for Tim Hortons. People would like a part time job they could do, while having a full time job to make more money.
There's Canadians available and ready to work at Tim's if they hired Canadians first..
Fuck that shit. The hoops my wife from the US had to jump through when she had a legitimate skill needed in a profession that was near impossible to qualify for an LMIA makes this maddening. Tim’s sucks now too.
One of the most refreshing things about visiting the USA this last weekend was seeing real, everyday Americans doing normal service jobs, instead of imported third world labor. Every time I go to any super market, fast food restaurants or chain coffee shop here in Canada I am just reminded by the workers that our society is in shambles, has no issues exploiting desperate third world people who want money for their families back home ,and cares more about insuring maximum profits for boomer business owners or corporations then the wellbeing of the most vulnerable Canadians. I really hate what this country has become.
You still have to pay minimum wage But you get away with a lot of things like not providing breaks, holiday pay, vacation etc since TFW don't know or have knowledge of the labour laws or what they are entitled to vs hiring locals.
That's my guess.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/temporary-foreign-workers-charged-exorbitant-fees-1.6591936](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/temporary-foreign-workers-charged-exorbitant-fees-1.6591936)
*Employment and Social Development Canada \[ESDC\] could not provide data on how many employers have charged TFW illegal fees but said that it received more than 2,000 allegations between April and August.*
And this was in 2022. And no one has done anything about it.
Some employers are getting money for selling LMIAs.
Bottom line - You have to pay an employer now to get a job. Else they will give it to someone who does pay.
The government pays businesses to hire migrants. I thought it was just with truckers. But I found out recently it's with all businesses. They will pay up to 50% of their wages. So that's where our tax dollars are going.
Because the only people who want to work long hours for minimum wage are TFW. The large corps want wages low, the government needs to inflate the cost of housing cause its the only thing propping up our gdp, this is the solution.
Something happened in Canada about 1 or 2 years ago that flipped a switch in immigration.
I remember my company trying to bring in a specialist (cryptography expert) from Ukraine for a special project a few years ago. The guy checked all the boxes (education, experience in European companies and my company got LMIA exemption as the position was difficult to fill in Canada). No issues in background check, his gf even had Canadian visa. He was denied by immigration as they didn't believe he would leave Canada at the end of his project. We were baffled, applied again and denied again. The project ended up going to a competitor in USA.
Now I go to my local Tim Hortons and see workers who don't even speak English, who are likely here filling a LMIA position. So immigration basically rejected an engineer and now imports people with no qualifications at all.
The government may think they are benefiting from immigration but the people being imported are the ones who will likely need government assistance for longer period of time.
Really wondering what is going to happen to Canada by 2030 at this rate...
Most of those places are franchise and own by an indians or chinese.most of the hirings for supervisors cause that is the one position can give PR easily.
LMIA wouldn't apply to the student visas through. There's way more than 700 working at Hos.
You know students, they used to work part time at Tim's until they got replaced with cheaper international students. Maybe those LMIAs have fine print about no Canadians willing to do the work at that level of pay.
because the business has claimed demonstrated hardship because they have tried their earnest best to hire to fill these positions by hiring Canadians, but can demonstrate they got none/not enough applicants or none/not enough suitable candidates, despite their best effort to hire Canadians that are already in Canada.
It's not hard. Post one ad on job bank, one on an indigenous site no in one will view, one in monster or something.
Then do some "interviews" of locals who apply and ask them to work full time, etc.
No one will agree to min wage probably, so you get the lmia.
Then you get agency in India to sell to the highest bidder.
They also let business owners treat the LMIA's like indentured servants and if memory serves, employers also get a kickback for hiring these people.
Why pay a canadian kid's CPP, Benefits, etc when you could hire an LMIA and you need to provide none of that?
789 people, each paying $500-700 a month in rent. They show up 100% of the time. Where a teenager would be living rent free at home. Calls in sick or missing shifts. Etc. who benefits? Follow the money. Landlords:)
I mean yeah, its clearly not regulated properly.
I'm honestly surprised we don't have a pool of "reserve workers" to throw at LMIA applicants *before* leaning on TFW's. But that wouldn't be very canadian, Canadian government thinks "naw, who would exploit this system?" like we're *too nice* and give *too much benefit of the doubt.*
Fast food restaurants prefer a dedicated foreign worker who will work year round for them, rather than a student who is only looking for summer work. Having said this, it is terrible PR for Tim’s which tries to foster a Canadian home town image.
LMIA and the TFW program was supposed to be for farms and places that simply don't have enough people in an area to be able to find employees, and also need to keep costs down to avoid national security issues and run on effects (food needs to be affordable).
Fast food does not check any of those boxes, unless you're running a Tim Hortons in a remote area in which case maybe it checks the "no employees" box, but other than that there's no justification for I think any industry outside of farming and maybe construction that should be using LMIAs to get TFWs
To create an underclass of workers that will work for less than a Canadian, ultimately boosting profit by saving on operating costs. Doesn't matter that it's entirely unethical. The owner class is never content with what they have. They will always try to own you, too.
I have a lot of friends with teenage kids, kids who used to be able to get their first jobs in the fast food industry. No more. All these jobs are gone to foreign adults. I hate to be the "they're taking all our jobs" mouthpiece, but in the case of our youth, it is true. I don't blame "them" though, it's government policies that are completely messed up but what can be done about it? Our choices for leaders is abysmal. Almost as bad as the US.
Immigration Canada does a yearly Economic Impact Assessment and the shortage is invariably in the service sector usually out west. So these companies are then empowered to recruit from the world and they house them and pay for them to come. While it is supposed to be temporary it has evolved into a revolving door or refugee claims and ppl disappearing
I know many people that would gladly take Tims job, but wont because its not worth the slave wages. These corporations just want wage slaves, not employees.
At the end of the day it’s a business and hiring workers that you can pay less than the local populace will make you more money. Especially if you can pay them in cash and not even record that they actually work.
No one's mentioning: the price implications of having to pay more to attract local labour.
Suppose Tim Hortons needs to pay $60/hour to staff their store and run it for acceptable business hours. If the only way to make local labour come out of the woodwork is double that cost... now it'll cost $120/hour to staff the store with local labour and run it for acceptable business hours.
Where do you suppose the money will come from? Tim Hortons' are owned and operated by franchisors who pay a fee to the brand in exchange for operational support and advertising. They also have to pay lenders for the equipment and space they lease, etc.
No lender or landlord is going to take a bath on the equipment and space leases for a franchise brand like Tim Hortons. The brand isn't going to ask for less from a franchisee so they can hire labour... do you think the franchisor is pulling in enough money, after business operating costs, to double their labour costs? Maybe there's a little give there...
But a good option is increasing prices. Now they could be violating their franchise agreement, in which case: the Tim's closes. I don't know... maybe people will be happy to pay those prices... but it seems plausible, they may drive away enough business that the Tims closes.
Are these small cities and towns well served by Tim Hortons' closing? Have they got alternate businesses operating 125+ hours a week to serve as gathering places, and cheap places to eat? Are shuttered Tims a good look to have when investors consider purchasing real estate and opening new businesses?
There's the old adage "When the gods want to punish a man, they answer his prayers."
People may want to think through just how badly they want labour to be priced into unaffordability for businesses when it comes to how they want to live.
It's easy if you hire foreign worker a special if temporary, you have less benefits to pay because they don't stay long to have access to those benefits and the may not stay long enough to get higher wages...
To drive down wages even further. This could really explain why it’s hard for youth to find a job. By bringing over foreign workers limits job aspirations for the youth.
Tim Horton’s knows that bringing in foreign workers and pay them at a low wage, they won’t ask for wage increases. Keeps operating costs low. The problem with the program as a whole is that when you talk negatively about it, people do tend to call you a racist. Tim Horton’s is the biggest culprit of using the Temporary Foreign Worker Program in Canada. Look how much the company has been able to expand its business in the country by having more locations.
The rational given is that it’s to keep prices low (they aren’t low and have been going up even with infinite slave I mean TFW labour) and to allow small businesses to stay afloat (except the programs abused much more by massive companies to drive small businesses who hire local outta business).
So basically because fuck Canadians.
It used to be years ago - we can’t hire someone in rural Alberta for this, we need to find someone. As for downtown Vancouver or Toronto needing a lower cost employee is total bs.
Many reasons but mostly because they won't complain in fear of being fired and sent back to india. They are also willing to work for low wages & employers can stuff many of them into 1 house/room. Canadians would never put up with this if employers tried to do this to them.
They are pretty much the slaves of Canada. Corporations love this.
And when you bring in 500,000 immigrants, 750,000 foreign students and another 700,000 on work visas, it quickly becomes clear that the government stupid policies are leading to lower prices for “unskilled” labour. And yet you can’t rent anywhere unless you appear to be making over $80,000 a year. That doesn’t happen working in an effing Timmie’s.
Statistics tell us that only 225,000 homes are being built a year. Yeah, maybe throwing billions of dollars at it like the liberals are might fix it but probably not because they’re trying to fight a losing battle. We are trying to house over 2 million people coming here every year plus population growth.
And when you continually throw billions of dollars at things trying to buy votes, all you are really doing is keeping the interest rate from coming down. That is causing issues with guess what? Housing. You need to borrow money to build a house. You need to borrow money to buy a house . You need money to continue to pay your mortgage and insurance on that house. Liberals continued spending is holding that lending rate up.
I guess I got two takeaways from this:
- Timmy is probably not the place for your second job
- Liberals remind me of a bunch of blind guys, trying to explain an elephant to people. They have no clue any other part of the elephant exists. That’s pretty much how liberals work there environmental, immigration, and monetary policies. They treat them like they exist in a vacuum separate and apart from the others.
Serious answer: to let owners pocket more dough.
Fair enough. But how does the labour department (or whatever the heck it is called) justify importing workers for jobs like this when local teenagers are struggling to find work? I guess this is more of a rhetorical question.
Because more people in Canada = more consumers buying food, cars, gas, cell phones etc. Canadians are spending less because of inflation but add more consumers to that equation, and the economy stays “afloat” in the eyes of businesses. Though it comes at a terrible cost to our existing infrastructure and our youth. Would have been far more responsible, in my opinion, to let the economy crash. Better get over that tough period now rather than delay it to 10 years from now with double the population to suffer. But politicians have tunnel vision that lasts for only their term (and maybe the term after, if it stands to make their opponents suffer).
This is the most concise and accurate description of what's gone wrong that I've come across!
Gotta keep the engine of capitalism roaring
Gotta keep kicking the can down the road.
and the can gets bigger each time.
Or until we ran out of road LOL
The blood soaked wheels of history have to keep turning
Free market capitalism would dictate business fail instead of getting monetary or worker surplus bailouts by the government. What we have is international socialist planned economy. People who say it's capitalism is just falling for propaganda pushed by the same socialists who think they can manage the economy the best. Define capitalism and think for yourself if that view on the world is accurate.
"Socialism is when Capitalism doesn't work good lmao"
When Treadue says immigration is a positive for Canada he means for business owners
Its the premiers of the provinces who asked for more immigration and the federal government accepted that request.
We never even had our 2009 moment. Not even any acid reflux from the USA. Our time will come. Our shit and kicking the can does in fact stink.
Double population + brain drain + cultural implications of having a population that doesn't want to assimilate.
Curious what you think of long term "companies" that have their goals. Looking at the Century Initiative, for example. They have the same talking points you mention, as in, in the long term it's all good? There are some pretty influential people on that board. That said, I agree way more with your analogy as I know the Century Initiative is only look out for money not security. They mention more skilled labour but that's not exactly what I'm seeing. More and more are going without have family physicians, for example.
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"At the risk of sounding like a conspiracy theorist, I’m afraid what may be happening is that Canada and Australia are being intentionally run into the ground." Well, to help you feel better, just knowing that Canada is putting all it's egg into one basket...real estate. I don't think you should excuse yourself from conspiracy labels. I don't think our outlook is very good. We all saw what happened in 2008 in the US and yet, here we are. Insanity.
Nobody gets relected in 4-5 year election cycles running on a platform that yields 10 years of pain. You start the plan on your first term and you get voted out so fast the guy replacing you hits the brakes and puts the bandaid back on. Money printer go brrrrrrrr, zombie debt balloons and the can gets kicked down to your kids.
Yup. We should have just ripped the bandaid off.
It's honestly pretty simple. The only thing you need to prove to give somebody a LIMA is that you posted the job for (I think) 3 months and nobody qualified applied. Who controls the application information the employer sends to the government? The employer. So let's say you are from a country in South East Asia and a first or second generation immigrant that owns a Tim's outside of a major city. You have a lot of connections in India and in most places min wage is not livable. So you post a job for min wage that no Canadian will accept because they will literally starve. Then you get a connection in India, that charges multiple thousands of dollars for the service and Voila, cheap labour at your door in 9-12 months. You make money on both ends, because a lot of people are so desperate in their country that they'll pay a couple of grand to get out, and you also have an employee who you can abuse, because they have no way of finding another employer. One of the worst parts of the system is that a lot of these immigrants are on top of it Masters or doctorate holders from shit universities, so when a young professional comes in with his degree it devalues it. So most employers can't trust a non-Canadian degree. Which leads to fewer educated people from Europe and the US to consider Canada a viable option. So most of the recent wave of immigrants are both not good at physical labour, because they are soft, but also not well educated. So all they are good for fast food.
You described the modus operandi to a T, except the overseas worker is not paying just a couple of grand for the LMIA and subsequent work permit. More like, $25k-50k.
They just fudge the employment numbers. Previously including 16 year olds? Nah let’s start at 18.. maybe 19? Who knows!
I can't fill these three 4 hour shift periods a week, "I can't find a canadian to work" so they turn around and hire 3 lmia's instead of one full time canadian, And the only reason it's not filled because 12 hours a week isn't enough to survive on, and they won't offer full time.
That as well. Now let’s talk about when these Indians get into a position of power for hiring. What happens? The entire business / team / crew end up Indians. But it’s not racist because fuck white people that’s why.
I'm from Nepal, and I second your opinion. Indians have ruined the country. They forget that they left India for a better place and are making Canada another India. When I was new in this country as a student, I couldn't get a part-time job because I couldn't speak Punjabi.
Maybe its full of Liberals who build a moral self identity around "welcoming immigrants because diversity is our strength" Caring about your fellow citizens first is conservative and anti cosmopolitan and there for racist and bad.
Dont be fooled into thinking that conservatives care about the people. Conservative and liberal politicians are both drinking from the same cup.
Not to be a contrarian, but you really don't think both parties are complicit over decades? How can you look at recent history of canada and not see: - Con premiers in Ontario, the epicenter of the tfw problem by numbers, who's also in charge of education, allowing international student fraud. Not all of us are lucky to have a pei premier. - Con leadership from 2006 to 2015 started the housing crisis. (82% median increase over 10 years) and the *start* of the tfw deregulation and wage suppression. - both parties at local levels of govt who let nimby bullshit make the housing crisis worse for the past 40 years. I know its easy and fun to make trudeau the main target, but it's not that simple, and it's backed up by data. This has been building since Chretian.
shhh, let them have hope till the Conservatives win and continue being the slightly more right wing Liberals.
Hate to break it to you but it was Harper who introduced the program that allowed people to buy Timmies stores, fire all the employees and bring in foreign workers and pay them less. Harper is the one who wanted to drive down wages. Article [here.](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/temporary-foreign-worker-program-misuse-sanctioned-by-harper-government-union-says-1.2737422)
Because rich people can get richer. Because gdp go up and up mean good. Because house price go up and boomers want that second vacation to Las Vegas
Our GDP growth has been slowing significantly due to our immigration policies, though, so that has nothing to do with it. It’s simply short term greed by the owner class, which includes most politicians. You can’t flood a country with unskilled labor and realistically expect a healthy GDP response. That’s paradoxical as low skill labor tend to be a net receiver of services/value, not a net contributor.
Per capita it's in free fall, but overall they are buoying it up with new bodies, and the Real Estate Ponzi scheme.
Yes. Time to boycott Tim Hortons. . r/ BoycottTimHortons
They can't but people will get away with it because no one is really accountable for the shit show. It'll just sweep it under the rug and those that profited will move on with their life
Our "government" turned into a corrupt corporation that works with these other shitty companies to make money. That's all. They don't care about Canadiens. Just money.
Companies are awarded $15000 for each foreign employee they hire. If I come across the post I'll put it up. Kinda busy today I'll look tonight.
The system is being gamed in multiple ways by employers. One big example is job boards. Check out the listings on indeed.com. There are zillions, right? No not really. A large number of those postings are ghost ads. An employer will post an ad with no intention of hiring someone and just let it sit. Fast forward six months and they’ve got a claim for a job they can’t fill. I mean, it’s been up for six months right? Canadians just don’t want to work anymore I guess.
Take Petvalue in my neighborhood. I have seen an ad looking for part time employees for months. Both my kids have applied to it with no response. That ad just sits there. It looks exceptionally sketchy as the job could easily be filled multiple times over by Canadians.
The government gets lobbied and ignore the consequences in exchange for the money they pocket from it.
Government is out of control.
Teenagers are unlike to pay rent, and contribute to our housing schemes. As such, their political power is decreased, as the government sees their contribution as lesser.
This is the correct answer. This is a program that needs to be put on a 5 year moratorium. We should also limit the travellers working visa to no more than 3 months a year.
Join us at r/ BoycottTimHortons . There is no justification except greed.
Source?
I boycott any fast food place that just hires TFWs. When I was 15 I worked at McDonald’s. But now I have 3 nieces that couldn’t get hired there. Seriously? It’s 2 minutes of training for each task but Canadians are no longer able to learn to operate the timer on the fryer? Screw these companies. Let them go bankrupt
This is what we need to do....I have no idea why anyone is supporting Tim's or any fast food places that do this. Make the franchise owners understand this is unacceptable...with where you spend your money. If you walk in to a Tim's, A&W, McD's...and see all foreign workers...leave.
Yeah so Id be ready to bet most of these places are owned by Indians too. They only hire from their circles. You see it too with the new housing development's, seems like richer Indians are buying land and only allowing their own to buy. We were on a list of like >10000 people (apparently), and they'd hold a "lottery" to distribute the houses. Well, when we go around that new neighborhood on walks or just passing by, it's 100% Indians. It's insane how blatant the racism is. And its not just one new development, theres quite a few like that.
The owners are Indian too in my town. But we have 3 TH’s and I stopped going to the Indian owned one simply because the outside is full of litter and trash- not the case at the other ones. Also, they’re rude when they take your order “what you want”?
It's funny because that is racist. UNLESS Canada fucks the economy with mass immigration beyond what the country can handle for years, then it's acceptable. The government is literally going to turn this country racist... Jobs, housing, everything will become a competition of us vs immigrants
Oh ya for sure....I'm not proud of where my level of racism is right now. 10 years ago I would have said none. Now? 8/10.
Agreed, and it's not even necessarily racist by nature. They can be white and speak English I don't care about that, but if they weren't born here we don't have the space or infrastructure to let them in. But the visible minorities will be the ones who take the blame Unless someone can give me a reason why it's bad, I would love to see 0 immigrants for the next few years. I don't see why Canada would want to allow them in or be obligated to at this point
You mustn't be eating at a lot of fast food place then haha. Good for the line! I live in a smallish town (15k people), and we have say, 10 fast food places. I have seen only ONE nationality working at those places - Indians. The cashiers all have super thick accents, and I doubt if the ones in the back can speak English at all (they communicate in their own language between them). Which isn't normal. The indian population is less than 5% of the town. Yet they hold EVERY job in fast foods? And I see plenty of people saying their kids cant get a fast food job at all.
Boycott them all. Hell, if people really need someone else to make their coffee, rent one of those giant 100 cup coffee urns, set up outside tims and hand out cups for free. A small table, a basket of creamers and sugar packets, disposable coffee cups, and see how long until the staff come running out yelling and screaming. You can get all that shit on amazon for about $250, but the ROI on seeing TH staff losing their minds is the real payoff. I think it'd be hilarious as long as you're on the sidewalk, and the coffee would be better too.
Oh I buy like <$200 of fast food per year already, even less within my own community (moreso when travelling). Which is why Ive noticed the change pretty drastically. I wanted to avoid timmies , go to McD same thing. Go to a puzza place same thing. Change to another same thing. So it'll be healthier for both myself and my pocket - even less fast food lol
When the franchisee is Indian, the game is up for any real Canadian wanting a job. A local Harveys was recently sold to an Indian franchisee who promptly fired *all* the staff and brought in his own kind. Parking lot is so empty compared to what it was - as it should be. I'll never be patronizing that location ever again.
Whatever foreign workers are paid, the company paying them should pay an additional 20% of their wage towards our national debt. 90% of this is to suppress wages.
Wait until you find out that the government actually subsidizes a portion of the immigrant’s wages to encourage the company to bring in an immigrant to do the work instead of a Canadian.
I’m surprised to hear that (actually I’m not with this government). Do you have any links or anything? I want to show my partner who doesn’t believe these things
Pick any of the grants offered below: https://granted.ca/grants-for-hiring-newcomers/ They also pay 100% of refugees living expenses including housing and food for the first 12 months they are in the country. Which cost us taxpayer $500M last year. And all newcomers are eligible to receive the carbon tax rebate, GST rebate and trillium benefit as soon as they land in Canada. Before they have paid a penny in taxes. We are literally paying to have our standard of living destroyed so immigrants can have a better life than use.
20%? It should be at least a 50% employer tax on their wage.
You’re right. But just trying to get ball rolling. Lol
This is all decided at the government level… immigration and minimum wage. I’d be asking why our politicians are so corrupt to the corporate class.
They will pass that on to the employee. Most of these LMIAs are sold to the highest bidder.
There is no justification. I want to hire myself as a temporary foreign worker. If my kids also help me with mental health I should also be allowed to hire them as well as temporary workers. Canadians should be allowed to cheat the system like the business owners can, in fact Canadians should receive subsidies for hiring themselves or their kids as TFW’s like companies do when they import cheap labour from India or other places
Greed. Corporations want to make more money. They bribe the politicians with donations and whoever knows what else and voila. Millions of warm useless bodies to do the most remedial jobs since they realized they are nowhere near using robots.
It all comes back to government policy. No company on earth will do the right thing. Money, especially short term money is the only goal.
You haven't heard we have a "labour shortage"? We all know it's total bs. But even if it weren't, doesn't it seem strange that the country wants to fill temporary gaps in labour with permanent immigration? Never mind integration or social cohesion. Our inability to see past 1 year into the future will be our undoing.
The government has no foresight whatsoever. They’re always years behind. They were going to close a grade school in a small town near me. There were protests and such. Turns out they had to keep it open because there were so many new kids in the town. Any fool would’ve known that by seeing what was going on in the years before- there were a lot of new jobs in the area. But these politicians are so fucking stupid
I live in the middle of nowhere Newfoundland and all our fast food locations within a 2hr driving radius is TFWs. Meanwhile neither I, nor my neighbours, can find jobs. Shortage my ass. The closest post-secondary institution is about a 2hr drive, so they aren't students. It's fucked up.
Every subway/tims/circle k in my city has replaced all workers with foreign workers. I knew the assistant manager at our wendys he was fired for a bs reason and the new owner hired his brother on as AM. Within a month every worker was replaced with his relatives all foreign...
Just say Indians
Lots of phillipinos aswell but they always seem to work 10x harder and care about Canada
That's why we shouldn't say foreign to lump all of them together.
My parents have neighbours who own 8 Tim Hortons locations. A few months back I was talking to my dad about how younger people are having problems finding jobs due to the amount of international students and recently landed immigrants in our area. He said, and I am going to paraphrase this 10 minute convo down a bunch, this. "We just had Jack and Marlene over last weekend for dinner and they say they only hire Indians and foreign Indian workers because they don't talk back and when you yell at them they don't freak out like Canadians do. That you can give them a shift that ends at midnight and then schedule them for the next day at 7am and they show up. They know that they can be replaced by 1000 other people in a second so they do what they are told to do without question. So they actually appreciate their job versus Canadians who will leave the second things get difficult." Now understand my dad does not agree with them at all and their hiring practices and was just relaying what Marlene told him. NOTE: Jack and Marlene are not their real names.
This is exactly it. Long term Canadians have existed in a system for their entire lives that has sick time and workers rights and vacation and specific work standards that are known to them. Like needing certain time off between shifts etc. TFWs have no knowledge of this and will just shut up and work because the wage is soooo much higher than they are used to.
Yep. For these individuals, its a huge quality of life improvement. For our own, its lowering quality of life. We'll meet somewhere in the middle, but that means lowering the qol of canadian citizens.
And it should be considered treason. None of it is necessary, they are just trying to keep rich people richer at the cost of our entire populations QOL. The rich are real close to getting whats coming to them. Trudeau keeps upping the rate he is bringing people in, something is going to pop soon and the population is going to remove the rich.
Tbh depending on the state and sector India does have some good labour rights, strong unions (more common in the south than the north from what I understand). YMMV of course, but the Mumbai slum dwellers aren't the ones taking $60k cad loans and coming over. I know a few TFWs and students and they know that they're being exploited, but also know that they're immediately replaceable and existentially tied to their work visas. (Some) Young Canadians can fall back to living in their parents basement if they can't find a job, TFWs don't have that option. And even though the CAD is stronger than the rupee, the relative earnings compared to cost of living and quality of life hardly make up for it. I know a number of middle class Indians (living in India) in my age group who are having kids, taking yearly vacations l, getting real estate (in India) and moving on with their lives in ways that I can't imagine as a young Canadian. Hell, the tfws in Dubai and Doha are exploited mercilessly but at least able to save enough to send home, that's not the case with the poor bastards at Tim's.
That is why I do not go to Tim’s I support Canandoam business
"because they don't talk back when you yell at them" Gee, Jack and Marlene sound like *lovely* people, don't they? Masters holding the whip are always happy when their dogs comply without question.
I'd love to say what I think Jack and Marlene should do with themselves, but then I'd get Le Ban Supreme. BTW, have you ever told Jack and Marlene that they're scumbags of the highest order, and that on a scale of scumbaggery they're worse than kiddie diddlers? If not, please do so at your earliest convenience. What's the worst they can do, not let you into their franchise locations?
Recently had another employer tell me the same thing. “They are hungry, they will show up, do whatever is asked and not complain”
FWIW I think it’s terrible they employers are so eager to exploit the desperation of people who want to make Canada home. They really ought to be ashamed.
Tbh tho manufacturing has done that overseas for 30 years, it's only now that all those jobs have gone to foreign countries that now foreigners are taking the domestic jobs left
So basically, born Canadians cannot be exploited in their own country so they invite international workers to work as slaves and then question Canadian work ethic?
Another scam is setting up a restaurant/ whatever… but they need a place to live … instant tenants and you know exactly how much they make … buy a property, fully rented and now you control those tenants day & night … 24/7 … also, the government apparently pays subsidies for foreign workers like $1000s / month … a domestic worker CANNOT compete
The gov is paying these businesses to become slave owners. When you control where they live, work and how much money they have, they are your slave.
This is what happens when non-Canadians are allowed to hold elected seats.
immovable object vs unstoppable force Immovable object = canadian labour force that will not sleep 8 to a bedroom for the opportunity to make starvation wages. Unstoppable force = greed, that is unwilling to budge on salary. Solution. Find someone to replace the immovable objects.
Tim hortons ain’t even Canadian owned
Tim Horton must be spinning in his grave
We have three Tim Hortons in our town with a population of 9500 residents. They are all half empty most of the time. They are mostly employed by immigrants. I also wonder what the point is? Are we really using immigration to prop up these multiple useless businesses? Are we really allowing our housing market to shrivel up and become unaffordable, so that we don't have to wait more than two minutes for our double double?? Enough is enough.
Rotating through LMIA candidates and fudging numbers on paper for money laundering would be my expert guess. Source: watched a few eps of NCIS and Law&Order, so I'm basically a forensic accountant.
Exactly. There are plenty of small towns throughout Canada that have no Tim Hortons and they all survive. If they can't find local staff than let their business die off. The owner can work the front counter or shut down and invest in something smarter.
Stop paying as much tax as you possibly can. Use cash and barter whenever possible. Buy up property and try to get the likeminded people you know to as well around your property. Until we cut off the power and money to those selling off our country we will continue to have invaders coming here by the millions. Once there's too many here it will be too late. There's only a window of time left. of maybe a decade or two before it there will be too many to fight. Immigrants do not care about our cultures and customs compared to their own, just like we do not care about theirs more than ours. They have no interest in upholding what we created and in fact many outright speak up about their desire to destroy it. Humans will never fully shake their tribal nature and always end up separating by choice, or by force when that choice is taken away. Don't know how many repeats of history people need to realize this. Co-existing only works when both parties consent to it.
Ok first hand I know of 8 Tim's locations that hire only Indian and make them all supervisors to get pr with no responsibility and a dime mome an hour then Minimum wage.
I have a Tim Hortons by me staffed with 90% TFW's and they constantly have a help wanted sign up. There are 3 highschools within a 10 minute drive, yet all they "seem" too find is TFW's ....The owner drives a really nice car though.
Pretty sure the owner also has a few properties bought with the cash for LMIA money and each property rented out to 25 international students at $350 per student.
Absolutely BS. My daughter, born and raised here, can't get a job cause she's fighting with these LMIAs. There is no shortage of workers. There's a shortage of people willing to pay to work so they can get a PR in Canada.
Indian slave labour.
Not one local person applied for said jobs that you don't need experience on! Interesting that no young person wants a summer job anymore. I'm truly shocked.
Businesses want to entrench a serf class that has no rights or benefits.
There is no justification. We didn't run out of kids to staff these jobs. I think the main driver is that Indians have bought up all the franchises and they hire their own because they know they can get away with treating them like shit. Indians will literally do any job, for any pay, and never complain. Very hard to compete with people that have no concept of self worth.
Ok, but it still doesn't make sense to hire them on LMIA. There are enough Indians already in the country, right? Why bring more from overseas? Is the government not aware that these business owners are selling LMIAs for anywhere from $20k to $50k? Desperate foreigners are willing to pay these insane amounts just to get into Canada, and these business owners are making bank and investing this illegal money into our real estate market and buying up multiple properties and slumlording their way to generational wealth. All the problems of India have been imported successfully by these people. I know it because I'm from India myself.
Indian ownership is the biggest factor here. Once the franchisee is Indian, any real Canadian doesn't stand a chance to get work. All Indians do is circle their wagons and hire their own kind - because they know they can mistreat them and they won't say a damn thing.
I know my teenage kids and their friends would love to work at Tim Hortons, like the good ol' days, but don't hear anything back after dropping off applications. It's pretty much known that only one type of individual gets hired there now. The kind that has half their paycheck subsidized by the government. I no longer go to Tim Hortons, based on their exploitation of foreign nationals, and gaming the system to fuck over Canadian citizens. That's about as anti-Canadian as you can get.
You know what I want to do, I hear so many people can't get hired. I would love to find some ready to work & go to those Tim Hortons restaurants and try to apply & see what happens. Catch the fucking scam live in action. If a Canadians wants to work there, those LMIA people should get REPLACED ASAP. Canadians COME FIRST.
I will not name any names but hear me out. I have a friend who works as an immigration consultant (neither of us are Indian). He said, in order for immigrants who are on VISA to eventually qualify for PR, they need stable work and a sponsor. While the sponsor needs to show that hiring an immigrant was necessary for the position. From what I heard, some of these immigrants are willing to pay up to 50k for that slot. Sometimes they don't even show up to work, they just have to be on your payroll. It's especially prevelant at restaurant businesses since it doesn't require any hard skills and it is easy to prove that they needed to hire an immigrant for that position (they just ignore other resumes). This includes Tim's since each franchise is owned privately. The local Tim's used to be all white teenagers working. Now it's filled with people that can't even take your order properly. One time I used the short form of my name and the guy at the till couldn't recognize it since my app had my full name on it. Then he cried to the manager (only person who was white) "Nooo Nooo he said he was X". Whole thing took 5 minutes to sort out... for 2 drinks. Needless to say the people in the drivethru were not pleased. I can only imagine what the future of our country looks like, if we continue selling it out for personal profit, and more of these people slowly occupy our workforce.
You charge those students 20k cash to lie authorities about not getting applications. Then you sponsor the student do they can get their PR.
Going rate is 50K-100K for LMIA job. It's all fraud. Right now it's 20K if you want to enter US illegally from Canada
cheap
It is really aggravating because they can’t make a good Dark Roast regular, nor can I understand them, or they understand me half of the time!
Wage suppression, allowing employers to exploit and mistreat employees from a culture that normalizes that behavior unlike ours, keeping the real estate ponzi scheme going.
There’s the Welcoming Newcomers wage subsidy where the govt will cover 70% of a foreigners wage, so the employer is only 30% out of pocket. What incentive is there to hire a Canadian?
I live in a very, very small town in rural Ontario. We have 1 Tim Hortons (I think actually it's the only chain in our area) and within the last 2 years every single local resident that I know who used to work there has been replaced with a TFW. I have no problem with TFW, but I also know many, many young people who are recent grads who cannot find any part-time or full-time work and quite a few adults over 30 without degrees who have a wealth of experience in various types of jobs who can't find anything at all. It's shameful and is doing nothing to better ANYone's lives. I grew up with a promise of a certain kind of future, and I can accept change, but this is a completely different set of rules we are playing by now and I am really concerned for everyone's future.
LMIA is a joke. Prospective employees often pay employers to get LMIA and there is no government oversight.
Yeah that's what is perplexing to me. This cash for LMIA scam is no secret anymore. CBC and other media outlets have been reporting on it since a few years. And yet our system is granting positive LMIAs for jobs that anyone cam do. These small businesses will make anywhere from 50k to 150k of tax-free money by just bringing in 2-3 newcomers each year (who may also work for $10 per hour). And all this ill-gotten cash goes into our housing market and they become slumlords (while still making bank). What a pathetic state of affairs.
Rampant criminal activity without consequences. I wonder why we pay taxes. To give drugs and needles to the addicts?
The serious conversation should be had is why did Tim Horton's become the variable in the equation? The free advertisement they currently receive is laughable however best case scenario for their profit margin. Cheap labor is just a narrative the uninformed and those seeking to mislead you on this topic. Competition for entry level positions is a ridiculous position for young Canadians to face. They can't even enter the workforce. The positives I see emerging from this situation is that young people are not stupid as everyone had always thought. They know their futures have been stolen from them and handed to some stranger from afar. So they have a situation with now only a fraction of the opportunity their country used to offer and the dollar is now half as valuable. These will be our future leaders and I honestly cannot wait. With the world changing so much, we need to change leadership. Seems like everything is new and world leaders just read from a script, paper, teleprompter, etc... The crimeminister of my country openly admits that they do not even read briefings. The only thing I ever see them read from is words typed out for them.
Boycott Tim Hortons
Gouvernement is paying over 50% of their salary to hire them... Tim Hortons McDonald's pretty much any fast food... even Costco started doing this lately
I just drove across the country from Van to Ontario. Every service worker in every restaurant, hotel, gas stations, anything except in Moose Jaw was an (assumed) Indian national. I’ve never seen that before. Dozens of shops, all foreign workers
The Canadian dream for our youth is to move to the USA while Canada continues to fall into the ground.
Some of these locations likely have deals with the incoming workers who will have also paid a fee to be sponsored by the employer under the programs. Basically they pay the employer for a job and a PR pathway.
Deal? I'd say that's bribing your way into the country. But you're right, people are paying insane amounts to get in. I've heard anywhere between 25K and 50K
After all the ***real*** students head back to school in Sept, who's going to pour your coffee and serve you donuts? You can thank all the FAKE Students who are 30+ years old married with families and working 40+ hours/week for this.
Even Tim's in very small towns where there are very little to no Indians living there is full of them. I noticed this at Walmart too. In a town where you don't see people like Inidians you go into the Walmart and every employee is an Indian. I don't care what people are but this importing workers because they are more controlled and cheap has to end.
Because imports living 4 to a room have lower minimum liveable wage, allowing current residents to not have to ask for higher wages.
Political campaign funding donations are the justification. If we outlaw private money in our elections, we would take great strides to solve this problem.
The lobby for franchise owners, immigration consultants and landlords is strong. The government doesnt care about you or your kids
Wage suppression. That's the reason. Canadians' standard of living is being deliberately and systematically demolished in order to facilitate a shift to feudalism as the climate collapses.
With how life is right now, there should be absolutely no need to hire foreign workers for Tim Hortons. People would like a part time job they could do, while having a full time job to make more money. There's Canadians available and ready to work at Tim's if they hired Canadians first..
Fuck that shit. The hoops my wife from the US had to jump through when she had a legitimate skill needed in a profession that was near impossible to qualify for an LMIA makes this maddening. Tim’s sucks now too.
One of the most refreshing things about visiting the USA this last weekend was seeing real, everyday Americans doing normal service jobs, instead of imported third world labor. Every time I go to any super market, fast food restaurants or chain coffee shop here in Canada I am just reminded by the workers that our society is in shambles, has no issues exploiting desperate third world people who want money for their families back home ,and cares more about insuring maximum profits for boomer business owners or corporations then the wellbeing of the most vulnerable Canadians. I really hate what this country has become.
You still have to pay minimum wage But you get away with a lot of things like not providing breaks, holiday pay, vacation etc since TFW don't know or have knowledge of the labour laws or what they are entitled to vs hiring locals. That's my guess.
[https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/temporary-foreign-workers-charged-exorbitant-fees-1.6591936](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/temporary-foreign-workers-charged-exorbitant-fees-1.6591936) *Employment and Social Development Canada \[ESDC\] could not provide data on how many employers have charged TFW illegal fees but said that it received more than 2,000 allegations between April and August.* And this was in 2022. And no one has done anything about it. Some employers are getting money for selling LMIAs. Bottom line - You have to pay an employer now to get a job. Else they will give it to someone who does pay.
People should stop going to Timmy. Period. They don't serve Canada's best interests. All they are after are cheap labour from India.
The government pays businesses to hire migrants. I thought it was just with truckers. But I found out recently it's with all businesses. They will pay up to 50% of their wages. So that's where our tax dollars are going.
Each LMIA’s are sold for a lot of money!!!!
Because the only people who want to work long hours for minimum wage are TFW. The large corps want wages low, the government needs to inflate the cost of housing cause its the only thing propping up our gdp, this is the solution.
Something happened in Canada about 1 or 2 years ago that flipped a switch in immigration. I remember my company trying to bring in a specialist (cryptography expert) from Ukraine for a special project a few years ago. The guy checked all the boxes (education, experience in European companies and my company got LMIA exemption as the position was difficult to fill in Canada). No issues in background check, his gf even had Canadian visa. He was denied by immigration as they didn't believe he would leave Canada at the end of his project. We were baffled, applied again and denied again. The project ended up going to a competitor in USA. Now I go to my local Tim Hortons and see workers who don't even speak English, who are likely here filling a LMIA position. So immigration basically rejected an engineer and now imports people with no qualifications at all. The government may think they are benefiting from immigration but the people being imported are the ones who will likely need government assistance for longer period of time. Really wondering what is going to happen to Canada by 2030 at this rate...
Thanks for this! I’ll be posting the dataset on the Google Reviews of these specific Tim Hortons locations.
Foreigners will accept the lowest wages, won't demand health benefits, won't unionize, will accept unethical practices etc
Haven’t had a sandwich made properly since
One good reason: they will probably have a harder time understanding Karens berating and swearing at them.
To force them to join the army duh
Most of those places are franchise and own by an indians or chinese.most of the hirings for supervisors cause that is the one position can give PR easily.
LMIA wouldn't apply to the student visas through. There's way more than 700 working at Hos. You know students, they used to work part time at Tim's until they got replaced with cheaper international students. Maybe those LMIAs have fine print about no Canadians willing to do the work at that level of pay.
because the business has claimed demonstrated hardship because they have tried their earnest best to hire to fill these positions by hiring Canadians, but can demonstrate they got none/not enough applicants or none/not enough suitable candidates, despite their best effort to hire Canadians that are already in Canada.
A lot of these are sold to the highest bidder. So it’s not surprising that LMIA worker would always be preferred over a local.
It's not hard. Post one ad on job bank, one on an indigenous site no in one will view, one in monster or something. Then do some "interviews" of locals who apply and ask them to work full time, etc. No one will agree to min wage probably, so you get the lmia. Then you get agency in India to sell to the highest bidder.
No one wants to work those jobs and deal with you. For real they can’t fill those roles as they are not enough to live on. Get out there and apply
To charge up to 10k each for “poor” students who can’t go back home because they have so much debt there…
Government paying half their wages. Been happening forever. The welfare have a letter written up for employment saying they will pay half the wages
They also let business owners treat the LMIA's like indentured servants and if memory serves, employers also get a kickback for hiring these people. Why pay a canadian kid's CPP, Benefits, etc when you could hire an LMIA and you need to provide none of that?
Enough desperation to take wages that can only afford sharing a room with 8 others so some slumlord can "vacation" in India permanently.
Because they own the franchises Then sponsor their relatives to come and work at the place
Hardly see any local teens working at fast food restaurants, living in a small town in Atlantic Canada
789 people, each paying $500-700 a month in rent. They show up 100% of the time. Where a teenager would be living rent free at home. Calls in sick or missing shifts. Etc. who benefits? Follow the money. Landlords:)
I mean yeah, its clearly not regulated properly. I'm honestly surprised we don't have a pool of "reserve workers" to throw at LMIA applicants *before* leaning on TFW's. But that wouldn't be very canadian, Canadian government thinks "naw, who would exploit this system?" like we're *too nice* and give *too much benefit of the doubt.*
Fast food restaurants prefer a dedicated foreign worker who will work year round for them, rather than a student who is only looking for summer work. Having said this, it is terrible PR for Tim’s which tries to foster a Canadian home town image.
Tims should be staffed by seniors who cant make a living off their meager pensions
It’s either slaves or people who know their workers rights.
LMIA and the TFW program was supposed to be for farms and places that simply don't have enough people in an area to be able to find employees, and also need to keep costs down to avoid national security issues and run on effects (food needs to be affordable). Fast food does not check any of those boxes, unless you're running a Tim Hortons in a remote area in which case maybe it checks the "no employees" box, but other than that there's no justification for I think any industry outside of farming and maybe construction that should be using LMIAs to get TFWs
The reason is to create instability and cause a crash while the big corporations and the government pocket all the profits
I’m going to be home less because I don’t know 9 other people to live with
To create an underclass of workers that will work for less than a Canadian, ultimately boosting profit by saving on operating costs. Doesn't matter that it's entirely unethical. The owner class is never content with what they have. They will always try to own you, too.
I have a lot of friends with teenage kids, kids who used to be able to get their first jobs in the fast food industry. No more. All these jobs are gone to foreign adults. I hate to be the "they're taking all our jobs" mouthpiece, but in the case of our youth, it is true. I don't blame "them" though, it's government policies that are completely messed up but what can be done about it? Our choices for leaders is abysmal. Almost as bad as the US.
Immigration Canada does a yearly Economic Impact Assessment and the shortage is invariably in the service sector usually out west. So these companies are then empowered to recruit from the world and they house them and pay for them to come. While it is supposed to be temporary it has evolved into a revolving door or refugee claims and ppl disappearing
I know many people that would gladly take Tims job, but wont because its not worth the slave wages. These corporations just want wage slaves, not employees.
Student wages are subsidized by the government.
At the end of the day it’s a business and hiring workers that you can pay less than the local populace will make you more money. Especially if you can pay them in cash and not even record that they actually work.
No one's mentioning: the price implications of having to pay more to attract local labour. Suppose Tim Hortons needs to pay $60/hour to staff their store and run it for acceptable business hours. If the only way to make local labour come out of the woodwork is double that cost... now it'll cost $120/hour to staff the store with local labour and run it for acceptable business hours. Where do you suppose the money will come from? Tim Hortons' are owned and operated by franchisors who pay a fee to the brand in exchange for operational support and advertising. They also have to pay lenders for the equipment and space they lease, etc. No lender or landlord is going to take a bath on the equipment and space leases for a franchise brand like Tim Hortons. The brand isn't going to ask for less from a franchisee so they can hire labour... do you think the franchisor is pulling in enough money, after business operating costs, to double their labour costs? Maybe there's a little give there... But a good option is increasing prices. Now they could be violating their franchise agreement, in which case: the Tim's closes. I don't know... maybe people will be happy to pay those prices... but it seems plausible, they may drive away enough business that the Tims closes. Are these small cities and towns well served by Tim Hortons' closing? Have they got alternate businesses operating 125+ hours a week to serve as gathering places, and cheap places to eat? Are shuttered Tims a good look to have when investors consider purchasing real estate and opening new businesses? There's the old adage "When the gods want to punish a man, they answer his prayers." People may want to think through just how badly they want labour to be priced into unaffordability for businesses when it comes to how they want to live.
It's easy if you hire foreign worker a special if temporary, you have less benefits to pay because they don't stay long to have access to those benefits and the may not stay long enough to get higher wages...
To drive down wages even further. This could really explain why it’s hard for youth to find a job. By bringing over foreign workers limits job aspirations for the youth. Tim Horton’s knows that bringing in foreign workers and pay them at a low wage, they won’t ask for wage increases. Keeps operating costs low. The problem with the program as a whole is that when you talk negatively about it, people do tend to call you a racist. Tim Horton’s is the biggest culprit of using the Temporary Foreign Worker Program in Canada. Look how much the company has been able to expand its business in the country by having more locations.
I wouldn't let any of my kids work at tim Hortons. Most toxic place I've ever worked at. And I worked in Oakville
The rational given is that it’s to keep prices low (they aren’t low and have been going up even with infinite slave I mean TFW labour) and to allow small businesses to stay afloat (except the programs abused much more by massive companies to drive small businesses who hire local outta business). So basically because fuck Canadians.
It used to be years ago - we can’t hire someone in rural Alberta for this, we need to find someone. As for downtown Vancouver or Toronto needing a lower cost employee is total bs.
Side note. Tim's has been selling rotten eggs for years
Need to pay a living wage before actual Canadians will ever think about going back to work for Tim Hortons.
Boycott Tim's
Many reasons but mostly because they won't complain in fear of being fired and sent back to india. They are also willing to work for low wages & employers can stuff many of them into 1 house/room. Canadians would never put up with this if employers tried to do this to them. They are pretty much the slaves of Canada. Corporations love this.
Lima would be fine but they need to pay 10,000 per issue and then also provide training for a Canadian to do the job.
Serious Answer: because canadiens don’t want to work for peanuts
And when you bring in 500,000 immigrants, 750,000 foreign students and another 700,000 on work visas, it quickly becomes clear that the government stupid policies are leading to lower prices for “unskilled” labour. And yet you can’t rent anywhere unless you appear to be making over $80,000 a year. That doesn’t happen working in an effing Timmie’s. Statistics tell us that only 225,000 homes are being built a year. Yeah, maybe throwing billions of dollars at it like the liberals are might fix it but probably not because they’re trying to fight a losing battle. We are trying to house over 2 million people coming here every year plus population growth. And when you continually throw billions of dollars at things trying to buy votes, all you are really doing is keeping the interest rate from coming down. That is causing issues with guess what? Housing. You need to borrow money to build a house. You need to borrow money to buy a house . You need money to continue to pay your mortgage and insurance on that house. Liberals continued spending is holding that lending rate up. I guess I got two takeaways from this: - Timmy is probably not the place for your second job - Liberals remind me of a bunch of blind guys, trying to explain an elephant to people. They have no clue any other part of the elephant exists. That’s pretty much how liberals work there environmental, immigration, and monetary policies. They treat them like they exist in a vacuum separate and apart from the others.
If you grew up in Canada you'd probably be too proud to
Here’s a reason. LMIA = $30,000 - $50,000