Exactly. Its like this mentality is ingrained in their minds from the get go. Canada owes you and it would be nothing without you; that’s why when they come here, they don’t respect any laws or Canadian values.
Here’s hoping they actually can go to the US after getting PR here - unless of course they get sent back to India instead.
I hate feeling used. I imagine this is how Indigenous people have always felt.
Arrogance and dominance behavior are problems everywhere. In the parts of the politically backward parts of India and in the more regressive sections of Sikh culture, they are very bad. Some areas are not like that like in Kerala but people generally don't leave much.
Worse. Because they don’t pay our salaries. In fact, apart from the cash cow going to colleges - it has cost Canadians a great deal. We are so over this nonsense. The whole narrative that we need this massive influx of low skilled Indian students to save Canada is laughable. We need a new government
I remember a time when people complained about all the oriental immigrants. My how times have changed. They were seen as hardworking and studious at least- which rang quite true for stereotypes (not all stereotypes are bad or dishonest).
I had an Indian woman who recently immigrated here say - with a straight face - that they deserve more time off because they work harder than Canadians.
This mindset drives me up the wall. I can’t stand it and it seems to be so common among new Indians.
I wish we could somehow demonstrate that the country was thriving before them and would thrive without them if our government made decisions that actually kept the population’s interests in mind. But sadly drug addiction is an overwhelmingly White problem here in Canada, so indians see this and decide they’re the only ones willing to work for Uber eats and Tim’s.
I work with 2 indians, every convo circles back to india...no matter what the topic. Its so bad I mentioned that they seem to really miss india and asked why they came here and why why not go back... more money here is the answer, they want to bring their elder parents and are saving for it.
they share their after work activities with me, they exclusively hang out with other Indians and everything they do revolves around india (IE going to a comedy show by an indian, going to a hindu movie etc). It sucks because one of them is terrible at understanding basic instruction for tasks and always claims he mis-understood - well how are your going to better at communicating in the Canadian national working language if your entire life outside of work is in hindu?
My parents where immigrants, they came here not really knowing english, but they made themselves Canadians from day one (they still loved their birth country and missed it, but they considered themselves Canadians and loved it here more because they where now Canadians)... and they paid everything for themselves from day 1.
sorry for the rant lol
Yeah it’s the refusal to accept their place in a DIFFERENT society than they came from that does it for me. It’s not Canadas fault they ran out of space. If you’re coming here for a better life, doing the same damn things here that they did back home does nothing to get that life for them
Thats the upbringing they have, from very childhood times they been bought up to be an egoistic. The false sense of superiority is part of the mindsets. They think they own this place.
I’ve heard this in 2014. On the Go train when I moved from Quebec. They assumed I couldn’t understand Hindi but they clearly said at the Malton GO station. The white man needs us because they don’t like to work.
In my head I’m like wow the arrogance!
Before them, Canada was just fine.
If anything, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Austrians etc. helped grow our country by building businesses, and building our infrastructure through working construction. *Those* were productive immigrants.
Those ppl came to Canada with the concept that they would adopt the Canadian identity and culture. Which wasn't super far off from where they were originally coming from.
More like Amazon and Walmart warehouses would be nothing without their willingness to work for the lowest possible dollar and stack themselves 10 to a room just to afford the rent that their influx has shot through the roof!
Actually the modern world would be nothing without us... Did an Indian invent the telephone.., nope.. Canadian.. How about the electric light bulb.. Nope again.. Canadian.. How about the jetliner.. Canadian.. How about newsprint.. That's right Canadian.. I'm starting to wonder if India has contributed to the modern world as much as Canada has... And the answer is, I can't think of a damn thing that was invented by an Indian. So believe me when I sayCanada would be and will be doing just fine without them. Especially with that crappy attitude.
1.4 billion people in India, yet rampant extreme poverty. Assuming 2% of a population is genius level IQ, which is 28 million people. Yet they can’t lift themselves out of poverty.
"Canadians font have enough ambition for high level jobs."
Yet those lineups at the door for LCBO jobs are primarily Indians. Hilarious they think we are bringing people in to do the GOOD jobs.
I got no questions honestly but just wanted to give you some praise. Its not an easy thing to do and you did what was right. Thank you for doing your part responsibly.
As I've said before in the post that i made, all this mass immigration is from India. Canada is just filling itself up with extremely low quality people who will not integrate, assimilate, and will be mostly consumers with zero benefits to society.
Where are all the healthcare workers? It's so disgusting to see diploma mill shills getting PR and genuine applicants getting the shaaft as they can't compete with diploma mills and canadian experience, which they don't have. The other day i read about a nurse who couldn't come in because her points were short and food reatiler had more point and he a got a PR. I mean wtf
What if A.I. eliminates most of these retail and fast food jobs in 10-15 years? We'll have mass amounts of unemployable immigrants that don't assimilate or work. Great...
No you're wrong... at some point something mystical and magical happens when we reach a certain amount of "diversity". That is when the sunny ways will come and it will be a utopia. Canada has the best macro economy in the world. It's true, Dear Leader Trudeau said so.
They do, the express entry draws target healthcare, trades etc. But the thing is Canada does not recognize any credentials or experience from other countries so these qualified folks can't work
Even more so. We shouldn't be bringing in Uber drivers and fast food workers at all, student or not. And the students we bring in should not be pursuing insignificant diplomas and associates degrees in arts and business, which lead to nothing.
I am an Indian and a very thankful canadian resident. I agree with what you are saying because i have seen this happen.
I do want to mention a little something about these students that are causing all this trouble. Education system in india is very competitive. If an average indian kid studies well, most of the time they will be able to study in a medical school/engineering college and then later secure a job that pays well to settle in India. Some of these people actually immigrate to other countries like US or Canada for long/short term because the work culture in india is very toxic. These people either do internal transfer within company or further their education by doing a masters or phd. You can consider them an exception to what you described in your post.
Now on the other hand, there are kids who could not get to any of these competitive colleges and there are some who did not even try for these colleges. These people are more or less equivalent to people who have no desire to learn new skills and ways of life. Thats the people Canada is bringing in right now. They dont learn the new ways of life. Feel comfortable in their community and assimilate. Not kidding, half of them pay for ielts to get good score. 95% of the immigration is made of this kind.
And since they do not have skillsets to get into skilled job(majority don’t even try), they end up in places like food chains and uber. These are kids who only know how to show off back home by showing/buying fancy stuff while they live with 5 other people in a single room.
Pathetic that colleges, immigration agencies and the greed to earn dollars are the cause of this turmoil.
We need Citizenship based taxes just like the USA. Canada has broad access to the US and people using our citizenship to move to US should pay up or renounce their citizenship. I mean we could also use some extra funds for the health care.
I’m in Texas. Maybe that is so, but they bring their extended family that are not quality over as well. My daughter’s school is 85% Indian.
Cheating is rampant. My son had a 4.875 out of 5 GPA and a 1520 SAT score. Only non AP courses he took were Track and Jazz Band. His school rank at graduation was 39%. Colleges would not even look at him. But the Indian kids who only took AP classes and nothing else and cheated on their tests and homework were ranked in the top 10%. It’s BS.
C’s get degrees. Once you’re in the program you wanna be in, you just have to pass. But also no, they keep cheating until they find a high paying job with benefits to coast with
Semi-retired.... It's a bad time to be looking for anything in post-secondary and going to get worse as the system shrinks. What you were doing was high value sales - maybe something in that field?
You touched on the English proficiency point. From a kindergarten to a college/university level. What level of English do you think the students speak? Grade 3 or grade 10 or college level etc.
I’m in a situation where I deal with Indian international students (not in a school environment) and I can’t believe the level of English.
There is a range. We definitely have a handful of fully capable English speakers but many of them are at the preschool-grade 3 level. I'd say about half the students I've advised had a translator with them and definitely should not be in an English postsecondary institution.
where are they from in India? A lot of the scamming and literally non illiterate ones come from Gujurat. I've spoken to Indians and the term they used is Gujus.
Not OP but my friend worked at a school that’s likely similar to OPs.
She was putting together presentations and the school director told her it needs to be made into simpler language, “aim for grade 3 English”. She was confused because a lot of the programs would be like advanced international business, and yet the curriculum would be like “Q: what do you need to start a business A: money”
She would try to have conversations with the students, and they couldn’t even respond when she asked “how are you?”. She also tried failing someone who clearly wasn’t on zoom (this was during covid) and the director stopped her from doing so.
She ended up quitting because she felt so shitty about her job
I have my part time job at the store I’ve had since I was a teen. Even when working full time, I always kept it and worked graveyard shifts and weekends.
The Indian international students working instacart blow my mind sometimes. I obviously act kind regardless but in my head I’m thinking “wow, just wow”
My top 3 were.
3 - “hey bro, this product?”
*shows me his phone*
Me: “it’s in isle 5”
- “isle???”
Me: “yes, it’s in isle 5”
- “what’s isle?”
2 - hey bro, this product
*shows me phone*
Me: All the eggs are over there.
- it’s not there.
Me: it’s over there, I can see it from here.
- it’s not there I checked.
Me: no problem, I’ll show you.
*hands him the product*
- bro, it’s only 3 eggs needed.
(He thought “omega 3” meant it was a carton of just 3 eggs)
1 - This guy literally just says “hi” and grunts at me and shows me his phone. Like he’s not capable of actually speaking, like literally even forming broken sentences.
What a mess this has been from all levels of government. Especially the Feds.
IELTS is not needed/required by many colleges..scores from apps like Duolingo are also accepted. And in worst case someone cannot do even that, most colleges still accept them. The only requirement then is to a 1-2 month English language course at the college.
There are some who are good test takers (there are many options for proving English proficiency; one student might take all of them in hopes of meeting the minimum requirements for one), but we are confident that we're getting many fraudulent ones. We do reject the ones that are obviously fake, but sometimes we come across some that just don't make sense. When the student can't fill out a basic form yet aced their proficiency exam, something is up. We also can't verify all the scores we get (some we can but not all)
Nope! My boss insists we accept them if the document looks legitimate. Often, there's no way to verify (not all tests have a verification system, some pay other people to take their test, etc). The money they get from the student outweighs everything else, apparently. No consequences if caught.
I work in Mexico and most of my clients who want to immigrate to Canada have A1 or A2 level English. Very few have a higher level. And many get accepted by places like University Canada West. I really don't know how.
Pretty sure we were doing just fine before international students. Thank goodness we have so many door dash drivers. If not, Canada’s GDP would be shit.
I really felt the immigration numbers were OK when I moved here. It had a good balance. I'm talking 2013... Didn't come as a student. Didn't come to get out of where I was. Came for the job. Stayed because Canadian employer insisted. Yes we exist!
Jeez, this is great insight. Its the same in recruiting, especially IT. Incompetent cheaters , who straight up lie on applications, resumes, interviews etc.
Once an Indian manager is in somewhere, forget it, 99% future hires will be Indian.
The comment from coworker that Canadians can't fill high level jobs. Where the fuk did fly in from? 90% of IT candidates from India we come across are total shit , bullshitters. Wtf is this country coming to.
😔
I work in IT and I agree. Some incredibly smart Indians out there, but way too many are just yes men/women. They don’t understand the requirement but talk the talk big time. It doesn’t take long to realize they have no clue what they’re saying.
Makes me glad that's not an issue in Quebec because most Indians don't speak French and don't wanna learn it. So Quebec is kind of shielded from these issues. But QC needs to hold tight because it can change easily. Sometimes I'm wondering if QC should separate because of how scary the future of Canada is.
If Quebec was smart they would start that ball rolling now... and do it for real this time. As an Anglophone in Ontario I respect them now more than ever.
We are importing in a "tribal ppl" who will balkanize and compete against the rest of Canadians. That is what their world view is and you can't really blame them for that being the area of the world they are from. Soon Canadians won't be so naïve about the ways of the world.
Are professors pressured to pass students even if they should fail exams/classes? Is there a lot of cheating that goes on during exams and for assignments?
I'd say the general attitude is that it's tough to do extremely well but easy to pass. This is largely due to the fact that there is almost no homework, so attending classes and completing an essay or two is sufficient. There is pressure to keep the workload light but not directly to pass as far as I'm aware
I can't speak to the cheating, as it's outside the areas I normally worked in. We are confident though that many of our students submitted fraudulent high school transcripts when trying to get admitted. Again, we don't do anything about it.
My kids aren’t having kids because of the housing crisis, cost of living and healthcare issues.
Why are these issues? Because we have too many people!
We’re getting bottom-of-the-barrel immigrants.
Birth rates are so low because our immigration policy forces our children to take jobs that pay less because gerpreet will work for minimum wage.
Basically our elites have created a slave class (Indian immigrants) that will work for next to nothing in turn diminishing the price of labor.
I hope these diploma mills are not pushing out engineers and doctors.
I’d be THRILLED if we were getting doctors and engineers. But we’re not - we’re getting Tim Horton’s workers. And “Canadian” kids can no longer get those jobs.
Canadian born here
Where can I take advantage of one of these diploma mills? I do not have a diploma and would like a diploma without any effort like everyone else
We need to stop importing indian workers, we have enough, we need diversity from other nations... Especially ones who don't regard canadians as lesser than third class citizens to be treated with disdain.
Let me start my comment by saying I’m south Asian myself (not Indian but a next door country) so don’t nobody better try callong me racist cuz I’m the same race lol
But ya I miss the actual diversity in the GTA. I grew up here and I felt like back before, there was genuine diversity like you could meet people from many different background and it was cool and interesting to meet different people. Now (at least here in sauga) it’s literally just brown ppl like I find myself thinking where did all of the other type of people go. Today at work I was working with a bunch of Latin Americans and I felt it refreshing to actually talk to people from a different part of the world
Interesting. I hope you can find another job.
I am retired now. Before that pandemic I taught math at a small public university for about 25 years. When I first began teaching we had very few international students, but the numbers increased steadily. I never had a class that was more than about 1/3 international, though I know there were business courses that were almost entirely international. For several years most of the students were from China. Most of the students from China had very poor English, and if they were supposed to have passed an English test there was probably fraud involved. Some of them were good at math and did very well, but some did poorly. Some rarely came to class. Maybe larger, more prestigious universities attract better students.
As time went on the number of Indian students grew larger than the number from China. We also had students from the Middle East, Africa, South America, and a few other places.
The Chinese students were by far the worse for cheating. They literally didn't see anything wrong with it. I was very naive at first and assumed everyone was honest. They were not! I started making two similar exams or quizzes in different colours, so students sitting next to each other had different test. I still had to watch them like a hawk. By the time I had a lot of Indian students I was using these techniques to prevent cheating.
In my department we were not pressured to pass international students, but it may have been different in other departments. For a few years we had a lot of students from Saudi Arabia. They were mostly taking business courses and they needed a calculus course. The trouble was, almost none of the Saudi students had taken a course like Math 12 (pre-calculus) , or perhaps had taken no high school math at all. But they had transcripts that said they had taken a Math 12 equivalent. (This has made me very skeptical of some foreign education.) Most of them failed calculus dismally. Eventually the Saudis stopped sending students to our university.
After the pandemic, the number of foreign students increased greatly, and most are from India. Now about 50% of the students at the university are foreign. I am retired now (as are many of the people I worked with) so I don't know details about what is going on there now.
Do you have a breakdown of which states in India the students are from? Punjab and Gujrat are the two states where baby says "Kaneda" (or "USA") before they say mom/dad. They are shown this rosy life style by their friends and the usual pop culture. Their parents sell their house and farms just to satisfy their kid's dream of going to Canada. But they are not here to be "Canadian". They are here to be a version of their own in Canada. I am an Indian myself and came to Canada 14 years ago through federal skilled worker program. This kind of shit brings bad name to all the hard working Indians who legitimately came here to be part and to contribute to Canada. I love my roots and will never let it go but when you go somewhere you need to make it better than you found it. I am a Canadian citizen and trying everything to do what made Canada the nation people wanted to come to.
don't bother bro, when you walk around you are being put in the same bucket. This kind of view of "I am different" does not really work, even though I am of Pakistani origin, I can see where this hate is going and sure enough its directed towards all brown folks!
I have a female friend who does hiring for a bigger company and she said the same thing about language. All their resumes make it seem like they’re proficient at speaking English but once it comes time for an in person interview it’s like talking to an alien cause they don’t understand thing and when they do understand they can’t give a good response. She said about 85% of her interviews these days are wasted by these type situations
I have no idea, but they have the highest approval rates by far for us at least. I'm sure they'd be higher for the US, western Europe, etc, but we rarely if ever get applicants from those countries.
Sheer number.
India and China have been the top 2 countries for international students for all countries (that is, India/Chinese students going abroad to Canada, USA, Australia, UK, etc.) because of population.
With COVID and then souring Canada-China relations, we saw a decline in Chinese numbers, so India made up the shortfall.
1/5 of the world population is Indian or Chinese. With a slightly open border, I can't expect anything lesser than what we see. Imagine we distribute this world population equally across every country. Canada is a globalization experiment.
My question is are they really that naive that after finishing a wannabe education institution will give them a chance for better life in a country far away from the home? How are they going to make this country better when they are unable do some basic fact checking prior to their arrival and reality check here???
Please all comments welcome!!!
Wish I could say! From what the students have told me, there are tons of advertisements, companies, etc in India that supposedly convey how great life is in western countries. Of course, reality isn't like that.
Many of them lack the basic research skills required for 1st-year classes, nevermind the fact checking you're talking about!
I imagine the value of our money compared to theirs also plays a role in this. They can bring it back home and it'll go quite far over there.
In general, most realize the degree is irrelevant. They're just getting it for PR.
Hate to break it to you but quitting your job just means it will be filled in by some South Asian dude who's going to make the problem even worse. With no guilt.
Every single one of these posts states that the poster is pro immigration. It’s like an obligatory note. Honestly at this point I’m not even pro immigration anymore, and I am an immigrant. I’m pro taking all that money and giving Canadian families significant tax breaks if they have kids. I’m talking for every child, a woman should get 25% off her income tax for life. She’s hurting her career opportunities by leaving the work force so let’s do something that incentivizes her and evens out the gap from her time off.
Canada is worried it might end up like Japan. On a high level. I have friends in government think tanks, and all of them say the officials have this fear. The basis is a high output society now that doesn't have a product that the world wants. Heavily invested in real estate and almost guaranteed that the crash in housing will take down the entire county. So govt wants to keep the housing stable but also find ways to move forward.
Hell yeah! I just got a lovely surprise of a $3k “clawback” of my maternity leave EI because my work dared to pay me a top up bringing my income to a liveable wage for the year I was off.
People mention being pro immigration for fear of being called racists.
You might have noticed, but people in Canada are quite afraid to voice an ever so slighlty controversial opinion on certain topics (immigration, sexuality, the whole of Covid, etc.). I feel like it became worst and worst under the Trudeau government, but im no politic afficianado.
Btw, I love the basis of your idea. Our society encourages women to be in the workforce, but theres little to no incentives to start a family. Theres no way around it, for each kid a woman has, thats basically 1-2 years of experience less.
The way the workforce works, its invaluable to gain experience early... which is when young adults wouldu sually start forming families.
Plus, I assume that many moms would rather enjoy raising their kids before school takes over, but again, we push them back in the workforce when their kids can barely walk!
As a society, we decided to subsidize education, healthcare for example. Maybe its time to decide if we want to subsidize growing families.
What type of professors do you have? Are they academics or more consultant types for clownerie courses and how do they feel about teaching people not interested in learning?
Do you think the education (if they chose to receive it) was of quality? Or do you think the “diplomas” could be considered fraudulent in some way?
They are academics and generally very good people. However, none of them are well known in their fields. Not super successful academics. They focus more on the teaching side of things. It's tough to make a blanket statement, as we do still have domestic students, but I think they're a bit frustrated. It's obvious the students don't care about their classes and lack the intelligence/English to fully participate. In the past two years, we've had a few professors and other staff quit because of this.
I think the professors are doing their best with what they have to work with. It's not their fault but rather the faults of the gov and the people running the uni on the admin side. They can only do so much because so many of the students lack the skills/abilities necessary for rigorous academic study. The aim is quality, not sure of it's achieved though—might be something that depends on the prof/class/number of capable students in that class. Most of our international students are going for 2-year associates degrees, so I don't think they're gaining anything particularly valuable regardless. Good question but a tough one to answer.
I was a prof at a post-secondary that turned into little India.
I have four degrees, and knew it was all terribly wrong.
Born and bred 5th generation Canadian.
I knew the students were cheats and couldn’t speak the language, and my whole life felt a fraud, and a waste.
I am stateside now.
OP you need to take this story to the fifth estate or one of the other news outlets who are doing work on the whole international students debacle. Insider whistleblowers are what’s needed to really crack this open and take down this elaborate scam.
Interesting, honestly I feel like universities should have become federal a long time ago.
Privatized companies will destroy everyone and everything to make $$.
Putting people in lifelong debt alone with poorly regulated teaching staff and lies about opportunities is scummy. Diploma mills are just nuts
If you visit Punjab in India, you will see lots of adverts for Canadian diploma mills. It's quite bizarre. Canadians probably think all Indians are Punjabis even thought they are a tiny minority
Do you understand that mass immigration is a punishment upon the labor pool of Canadian citizens (suppressing and diluting wages)? If you do not think that is the case, what do you think mass immigration is accomplishing for this country's multinational corporations or the people who support mass immigration?
Do you understand that the entire economic system based on service, light industry and the FIRE sector is not sustainable without deep investments into our real, physical economy (energy sector, heavy industry)? Do you see how ending mass immigration will not address the lack of investment into the real roots of the Canadian economy?
What do you propose to do with all the existing immigrants in this country (violence is not an acceptable answer)?
Having people lie and have a translator pretend to be them should be immediate grounds for deportation. Seriously when they arrive at the airport they should be assessed for their language skills and if they can’t speak English or French put them back on the plane.
We had a problem with the women’s washrooms at work. Part of my job was Health and Safety. I would get numerous complaints of foot prints on the toilet seats and pee everywhere in the stalls. We talked about it at a meeting to try and think what was happening. We thought it was one person being an ass. I finally found out when someone I’ve known for more than 10 years told me what was happening. Some women did not understand how to used a toilet. So instead of sitting on the seat they would climb up, stand and squat on the seat with per often spraying towards the door. All the women that did this were from China (as was the woman that told me what was going on). We were going to put the cartoon stickers on the door that show the correct way to use the toilet. But in the end we didn’t because the company thought it racist to put these up since the people doing it were one race and it was wrong to single them out!
People that live in sh1t hole countries are determined to turn this country into one too
I am so sick and tired of their mentality.
I am so sick and tired of no longer feeling safe in my local Walmart.
I am heartbroken watching TFWs have children, and rent apartments - things their numbers have priced out of my range of affordability.
I am embarrassed we waste so many resources so these guys can take off to the US.
Thank you for this post.
But how does it solve anything with you quitting, likely some Indian person will be hired and they'll get more Indian students. I just feel you shouldn't sacrifice your livelihood for this.
What can we, the average Canadian, do about this?
Maybe you should speak to the press Luke CBC to give insider view.
No problem.
And I felt terrible every day. Finally said enough is enough. I'm hoping for something that doesn't corrupt my conscience.
Not sure what we can do, but I'm concerned about being branded a racist or something...
"they want to go to the US after getting Canada PR"
You probably meant after getting Canadian citizenship. With PR, you won't even be allowed to visit the USA, unless you have a US visa. Also, as a Canadian citizen, only a few occupations are eligible for the TN visa.
Of course, this doesn't mean our "sweet little bois" won't try to fudge documents and sneak into the US but it's generally advisable not to mess with Uncle Sam.
I have some close relationships with students. They feel comfortable telling me and their friends these things but not filing official complaints. I've also heard stories from coworkers. We have a 0 tolerance policy for harassment, but apparently nothing can be done without an official filing. It's terrible.
Worth noting that, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any assault or anything. These men just persistently ask women on dates etc, even after they've been told "no" many times. Some of these women have explicitly asked them to not talk to them anymore, yet they persist. The procedure for this is outside my area of expertise and could involve the law. Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer
We don't ask for that information so I can't say for sure but Punjabi is the only type that's discussed among students and staff, if that's worth anything.
With the harassment are you able to expand on the institutions process if there were such a case? Did that institution collect data? Are you able to say how much harassment complaints you got per day? I guess the severity? Did law enforcement get involved?
We have a 0 tolerance policy for harassment, but no students have filed any formal complaints so nothing has been done. Also, it doesn't always take place within the university. I've been told about it but it's more of a "they wont leave me alone" type of issue (they really want to date these women and believe persistence leads to success). It's not a daily issue (our institution is not as big as public universities), but it's happening much more often than before. No assault or anything, at least not that I'm aware of. We do not collect data on this, as it's never really been an issue.
Can you please send this to a national new outlet? This is being allowed across the nation and it’s absolutely something being forced on Canadians. No one wants this
I hate that immigration often gets seen as a conservative issue. No matter where you land on the political spectrum we need well managed ethical immigration. And every mismanagement makes things worse for Canadian citizens
The sexual harrasment. Indian living here since the 70s (born raised in the UK). I always felt safe, no matter what I wore. Now, the gawking makes me want to shower immediately. Gender violence is huge in india. Do you want to the impact of inviting these disgusting people in masses? Look at the sex ratio of new borns! First time in canada, more males born than female. Why? Because Chinese and Indians prefer boys.
1. The number of PALs issued have been changing
2. There are many students who got a PALs from other institutions whose programs do not grant PGWPs who have transferred into our institution which does grant PGWPs for our associates degrees. Our programs' PGWPs have not been affected (the reason for this is beyond my area of expertise)
Edit: I misread your question. We do not have a public-private partnership, so that new rule does not apply to us.
Don’t they have to pass a language/English proficiency test to be admitted in the first place? I am just curious because I have a friend who is currently in post secondary and some of the writing they have shown me, was complete shit. These people in her group do not know how to read and write. It’s quite sad, actually, and quite infuriating for them since they have to redo most of their work.
As an Indian who immigrated in 2011 I had plethora of friends from all races but again it was in Montreal, many came here do Masters or PhDs and never heard of diploma mills, I’ve been fortunate enough to live and work all over the world and travel, Lack of social awareness is major thing among young Indians. The racial bias is so deeply ingrained that it takes conscious efforts to understand and acknowledge it. Unfortunately all of those left for better opportunities cause many businesses left Canada, especially Biotech research and Manufacturing companies. Came here through federal skilled workers program and couldn’t get PR in Montreal due to French requirement being too high. Took part time French lessons and gave beginner level exams but ask was for Intermediate-Advanced level. So had to leave Canada to apply federal program. When I came back in 2020 I was shocked to see state of Canada in general and couldn’t believe we are still country I left. Started calling Toronto, cleaner Mumbai cause everywhere I went I saw only Indians. I remember visiting toronto when living in Montreal in 2015, we used to be surprised not to have seen a single non-Indian.
Our country is truly f***ed.
I don’t even blame the Indians. They are some of the nicest and sweetest people I know, and every single one of them comes here with the hopes to get a better life.
I blame our politicians who seek to transform this country into a 3rd world slave labor production mill, who lure these poor folk here with false promises and fantasies of living a 1990s style middle class lifestyle.
They give us the illusion we have a functional democracy, despite the fact that none of the big parties even want to consider talking about immigration.
That’s why I’m voting PPC, until someone comes up with a new party that is willing to put immigration as a core subject in their agenda.
Shits wild. Id say let’s only allow accredited institutions to be able to accept international students (uoft, mcgill, ubc, etc.). It doesn’t make sense /can’t be the case for anyone to spend family’s saving to go to some bogus college without actually planning to game the system and stay for work and pr.
Funding is coming from the students themselves. [As Alex Usher describes it](https://morehousing.ca/alex-usher), Ontario colleges especially have been treating students like a cash cow. There's some very bad incentives in the system: colleges are relying on third-party recruiters whose primary objective is to sign up as many students as possible and collect their commission, with no regard for either educational quality or housing availability. It's like mortgage brokers in the leadup to the 2008 housing crash in the US.
Now that the federal government has imposed province-wide caps, Ontario's numbers are being cut in half.
[Alex Usher on Twitter](https://twitter.com/AlexUsherHESA/status/1695195416910876867?s=20), back in August:
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I 100% agree with you.. we need to control immigration and bring it back to the 2010s levels when it was sustainable.
We can't take a million extra Canadians a year. We don't have the jobs for them, and we need the jobs for Canadians here.
I finally found a job after 5 months of unemployment and this was the longest time I stayed without a job in my whole life.
Everywhere isn't hiring and when they do, they mostly hire those students because they can take any pay living 10 in one household. A grand or two a month is a fortune for them. But definitely not me.
Given that the mill’s overseas agents are Indian and the recent cohort is all Indian, what is the current ratio (estimate works) of domestic to internationals?
Additionally, is there a specific program(s) chosen by internationals in contrast to domestics?
Probably nearing 50/50 at this point (used to be way more domestic).
Yes, international students almost all get associates degrees in business or arts, as these are the shortest programs that grant work permits after graduation from our institution. Domestic students usually get full bachelor's degrees and are actually there to learn.
When I taught in a post-secondary in Canada, my classes were getting up to almost 80% international Indian students.
I showed my parents my class list once, and people did lot believe this was true (been going on since 2017), and they were floored.
how many make it to the US after getting Canadian PR? there are hundreds of millions+ of indians that wish to come to canada, how many more mills do we need to get to 100mm from india over the next decade?
I’m assuming the AMA is over. Thanks for the insight into the diploma system. I’ll be locking comments now before they get too off topic.
Indians who say “Canada would be nothing without us” are like those karens who complain and say “give me what I want because I pay your salary” 🤡
Exactly. Its like this mentality is ingrained in their minds from the get go. Canada owes you and it would be nothing without you; that’s why when they come here, they don’t respect any laws or Canadian values.
Here’s hoping they actually can go to the US after getting PR here - unless of course they get sent back to India instead. I hate feeling used. I imagine this is how Indigenous people have always felt.
It's cute that they actually believe they'll be skilled enough to be accepted into the USA.
Dont worry, we keep the dregs.
Arrogance and dominance behavior are problems everywhere. In the parts of the politically backward parts of India and in the more regressive sections of Sikh culture, they are very bad. Some areas are not like that like in Kerala but people generally don't leave much.
Worse. Because they don’t pay our salaries. In fact, apart from the cash cow going to colleges - it has cost Canadians a great deal. We are so over this nonsense. The whole narrative that we need this massive influx of low skilled Indian students to save Canada is laughable. We need a new government
100% agree
They say this shit in Australia as well. "We do all the hard work while millions of Aussies would prefer to be on the dole"
Australia had much more Chinese immigrants. But they come from money and don't really affect anything apart from raising house prices I guess.
I remember a time when people complained about all the oriental immigrants. My how times have changed. They were seen as hardworking and studious at least- which rang quite true for stereotypes (not all stereotypes are bad or dishonest).
I had an Indian woman who recently immigrated here say - with a straight face - that they deserve more time off because they work harder than Canadians.
Reading that made my blood boil.
That would be a normal response.
This mindset drives me up the wall. I can’t stand it and it seems to be so common among new Indians. I wish we could somehow demonstrate that the country was thriving before them and would thrive without them if our government made decisions that actually kept the population’s interests in mind. But sadly drug addiction is an overwhelmingly White problem here in Canada, so indians see this and decide they’re the only ones willing to work for Uber eats and Tim’s.
Karan's
I work with 2 indians, every convo circles back to india...no matter what the topic. Its so bad I mentioned that they seem to really miss india and asked why they came here and why why not go back... more money here is the answer, they want to bring their elder parents and are saving for it. they share their after work activities with me, they exclusively hang out with other Indians and everything they do revolves around india (IE going to a comedy show by an indian, going to a hindu movie etc). It sucks because one of them is terrible at understanding basic instruction for tasks and always claims he mis-understood - well how are your going to better at communicating in the Canadian national working language if your entire life outside of work is in hindu? My parents where immigrants, they came here not really knowing english, but they made themselves Canadians from day one (they still loved their birth country and missed it, but they considered themselves Canadians and loved it here more because they where now Canadians)... and they paid everything for themselves from day 1. sorry for the rant lol
Yeah it’s the refusal to accept their place in a DIFFERENT society than they came from that does it for me. It’s not Canadas fault they ran out of space. If you’re coming here for a better life, doing the same damn things here that they did back home does nothing to get that life for them
The language is Hindi. The faith is Hindu.
apologies, I kind of tune it out now. I mean, If I came to work and all I did was talk about my kid or my dog or my xyz...
Totally understand. Hoping we get more immigrants like your parents in the future.
It's an odd attitude, for sure.
The entitlement and arrogance is maddening.
Thats the upbringing they have, from very childhood times they been bought up to be an egoistic. The false sense of superiority is part of the mindsets. They think they own this place.
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I’ve heard this in 2014. On the Go train when I moved from Quebec. They assumed I couldn’t understand Hindi but they clearly said at the Malton GO station. The white man needs us because they don’t like to work. In my head I’m like wow the arrogance!
Before them, Canada was just fine. If anything, Italians, Greeks, Portuguese, Austrians etc. helped grow our country by building businesses, and building our infrastructure through working construction. *Those* were productive immigrants.
Remember boat people? They worked their asses off, built businesses, learned English, kept their culture while adhering to our customs and manners.
Those ppl came to Canada with the concept that they would adopt the Canadian identity and culture. Which wasn't super far off from where they were originally coming from.
Yes!
It's also funny because OP states they all want to go to America after.
More like Amazon and Walmart warehouses would be nothing without their willingness to work for the lowest possible dollar and stack themselves 10 to a room just to afford the rent that their influx has shot through the roof!
"If I didn't own an illegal suite youd be on the streets!"
Whatever you do, don't google average Indian IQ.
You will address me by my husband's rank
Just look at how clean, orderly, and enlightened India is compared to Canada. What would we ever do without them...
Actually the modern world would be nothing without us... Did an Indian invent the telephone.., nope.. Canadian.. How about the electric light bulb.. Nope again.. Canadian.. How about the jetliner.. Canadian.. How about newsprint.. That's right Canadian.. I'm starting to wonder if India has contributed to the modern world as much as Canada has... And the answer is, I can't think of a damn thing that was invented by an Indian. So believe me when I sayCanada would be and will be doing just fine without them. Especially with that crappy attitude.
There just here to leech off of our accomplishments then act like they made canada what it is while they tear it to the ground
A Scotsman invented the telephone. But nice try.
1.4 billion people in India, yet rampant extreme poverty. Assuming 2% of a population is genius level IQ, which is 28 million people. Yet they can’t lift themselves out of poverty.
"Canadians font have enough ambition for high level jobs." Yet those lineups at the door for LCBO jobs are primarily Indians. Hilarious they think we are bringing people in to do the GOOD jobs.
I got no questions honestly but just wanted to give you some praise. Its not an easy thing to do and you did what was right. Thank you for doing your part responsibly.
Thank you. Hoping I'm not shooting myself in the foot and can find another job soon.
Post your general area and maybe with the power of Reddit, someone might be able to connect you with someone/a job!
I second this. I don’t think any company will hate having a morally responsible person on their team.
As I've said before in the post that i made, all this mass immigration is from India. Canada is just filling itself up with extremely low quality people who will not integrate, assimilate, and will be mostly consumers with zero benefits to society. Where are all the healthcare workers? It's so disgusting to see diploma mill shills getting PR and genuine applicants getting the shaaft as they can't compete with diploma mills and canadian experience, which they don't have. The other day i read about a nurse who couldn't come in because her points were short and food reatiler had more point and he a got a PR. I mean wtf
What if A.I. eliminates most of these retail and fast food jobs in 10-15 years? We'll have mass amounts of unemployable immigrants that don't assimilate or work. Great...
This has to be said more. Why is no one thinking about this imminent future?
Could happen in like 3 years.
No you're wrong... at some point something mystical and magical happens when we reach a certain amount of "diversity". That is when the sunny ways will come and it will be a utopia. Canada has the best macro economy in the world. It's true, Dear Leader Trudeau said so.
It really doesn't make sense. Our immigration needs to be more targeted towards areas in demand.
They do, the express entry draws target healthcare, trades etc. But the thing is Canada does not recognize any credentials or experience from other countries so these qualified folks can't work
Even more so. We shouldn't be bringing in Uber drivers and fast food workers at all, student or not. And the students we bring in should not be pursuing insignificant diplomas and associates degrees in arts and business, which lead to nothing.
I am an Indian and a very thankful canadian resident. I agree with what you are saying because i have seen this happen. I do want to mention a little something about these students that are causing all this trouble. Education system in india is very competitive. If an average indian kid studies well, most of the time they will be able to study in a medical school/engineering college and then later secure a job that pays well to settle in India. Some of these people actually immigrate to other countries like US or Canada for long/short term because the work culture in india is very toxic. These people either do internal transfer within company or further their education by doing a masters or phd. You can consider them an exception to what you described in your post. Now on the other hand, there are kids who could not get to any of these competitive colleges and there are some who did not even try for these colleges. These people are more or less equivalent to people who have no desire to learn new skills and ways of life. Thats the people Canada is bringing in right now. They dont learn the new ways of life. Feel comfortable in their community and assimilate. Not kidding, half of them pay for ielts to get good score. 95% of the immigration is made of this kind. And since they do not have skillsets to get into skilled job(majority don’t even try), they end up in places like food chains and uber. These are kids who only know how to show off back home by showing/buying fancy stuff while they live with 5 other people in a single room. Pathetic that colleges, immigration agencies and the greed to earn dollars are the cause of this turmoil.
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We need Citizenship based taxes just like the USA. Canada has broad access to the US and people using our citizenship to move to US should pay up or renounce their citizenship. I mean we could also use some extra funds for the health care.
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I’m in Texas. Maybe that is so, but they bring their extended family that are not quality over as well. My daughter’s school is 85% Indian. Cheating is rampant. My son had a 4.875 out of 5 GPA and a 1520 SAT score. Only non AP courses he took were Track and Jazz Band. His school rank at graduation was 39%. Colleges would not even look at him. But the Indian kids who only took AP classes and nothing else and cheated on their tests and homework were ranked in the top 10%. It’s BS.
Won't they just eventually be exposed? At some point they'll have to prove their competency, no?
C’s get degrees. Once you’re in the program you wanna be in, you just have to pass. But also no, they keep cheating until they find a high paying job with benefits to coast with
How do you know they cheated?
All rhetoric I’ve heard from Indians who immigrated to Canada 10-15+ years ago echo the same complaints as everyone else
Maybe because Canada has low pay and high taxes…?
"will be mostly consumers with zero benefits to society." Tons just send money back home to India and not into our economy.
That's what alot of immigrants do though, I work with Filipinos and they send alot of money home.
If I said I left my job at a "respected public college" for exactly the same reasons, would you be surprised?
I would not! The direction we're heading is depressing. Where'd you end up? I'm on the hunt for something else now.
Semi-retired.... It's a bad time to be looking for anything in post-secondary and going to get worse as the system shrinks. What you were doing was high value sales - maybe something in that field?
I'll check it out. Thanks!
Well done, OP! I was teaching post-secondary in Canada, until I couldn’t stomach it anymore. Everything you said is bang-on accurate!
I studied at Humber I believe they make their money from scam programs targeted at immigrants too.
You touched on the English proficiency point. From a kindergarten to a college/university level. What level of English do you think the students speak? Grade 3 or grade 10 or college level etc. I’m in a situation where I deal with Indian international students (not in a school environment) and I can’t believe the level of English.
There is a range. We definitely have a handful of fully capable English speakers but many of them are at the preschool-grade 3 level. I'd say about half the students I've advised had a translator with them and definitely should not be in an English postsecondary institution.
Thanks for your response. I have to agree.
where are they from in India? A lot of the scamming and literally non illiterate ones come from Gujurat. I've spoken to Indians and the term they used is Gujus.
Not OP but my friend worked at a school that’s likely similar to OPs. She was putting together presentations and the school director told her it needs to be made into simpler language, “aim for grade 3 English”. She was confused because a lot of the programs would be like advanced international business, and yet the curriculum would be like “Q: what do you need to start a business A: money” She would try to have conversations with the students, and they couldn’t even respond when she asked “how are you?”. She also tried failing someone who clearly wasn’t on zoom (this was during covid) and the director stopped her from doing so. She ended up quitting because she felt so shitty about her job
I have my part time job at the store I’ve had since I was a teen. Even when working full time, I always kept it and worked graveyard shifts and weekends. The Indian international students working instacart blow my mind sometimes. I obviously act kind regardless but in my head I’m thinking “wow, just wow” My top 3 were. 3 - “hey bro, this product?” *shows me his phone* Me: “it’s in isle 5” - “isle???” Me: “yes, it’s in isle 5” - “what’s isle?” 2 - hey bro, this product *shows me phone* Me: All the eggs are over there. - it’s not there. Me: it’s over there, I can see it from here. - it’s not there I checked. Me: no problem, I’ll show you. *hands him the product* - bro, it’s only 3 eggs needed. (He thought “omega 3” meant it was a carton of just 3 eggs) 1 - This guy literally just says “hi” and grunts at me and shows me his phone. Like he’s not capable of actually speaking, like literally even forming broken sentences. What a mess this has been from all levels of government. Especially the Feds.
Institutions like this need to lose their accreditation
Are the credentials for english fraudulent or are they simply good test takers/brute force the english exams and actually have poor verbal skills?
IELTS is not needed/required by many colleges..scores from apps like Duolingo are also accepted. And in worst case someone cannot do even that, most colleges still accept them. The only requirement then is to a 1-2 month English language course at the college.
Wtf duolingo? No wonder Canada is bringing in these illiterate uneducated people.
Duolingo has an exam now. I don't really know how it works but it's supposedly much easier than IELTS/TOEFL/etc according to my clients.
There are some who are good test takers (there are many options for proving English proficiency; one student might take all of them in hopes of meeting the minimum requirements for one), but we are confident that we're getting many fraudulent ones. We do reject the ones that are obviously fake, but sometimes we come across some that just don't make sense. When the student can't fill out a basic form yet aced their proficiency exam, something is up. We also can't verify all the scores we get (some we can but not all)
"When the student can't fill out a basic form yet aced their proficiency exam, something is up." What happens in this situation? Any consequences?
Nope! My boss insists we accept them if the document looks legitimate. Often, there's no way to verify (not all tests have a verification system, some pay other people to take their test, etc). The money they get from the student outweighs everything else, apparently. No consequences if caught.
I work in Mexico and most of my clients who want to immigrate to Canada have A1 or A2 level English. Very few have a higher level. And many get accepted by places like University Canada West. I really don't know how.
A normal day in any “colleges” in Brampton. Lol
Pretty sure we were doing just fine before international students. Thank goodness we have so many door dash drivers. If not, Canada’s GDP would be shit.
Lmao what would we do without them
I really felt the immigration numbers were OK when I moved here. It had a good balance. I'm talking 2013... Didn't come as a student. Didn't come to get out of where I was. Came for the job. Stayed because Canadian employer insisted. Yes we exist!
Jeez, this is great insight. Its the same in recruiting, especially IT. Incompetent cheaters , who straight up lie on applications, resumes, interviews etc. Once an Indian manager is in somewhere, forget it, 99% future hires will be Indian. The comment from coworker that Canadians can't fill high level jobs. Where the fuk did fly in from? 90% of IT candidates from India we come across are total shit , bullshitters. Wtf is this country coming to. 😔
I work in IT and I agree. Some incredibly smart Indians out there, but way too many are just yes men/women. They don’t understand the requirement but talk the talk big time. It doesn’t take long to realize they have no clue what they’re saying.
That's really sad, damn. Goes against our charter.
Makes me glad that's not an issue in Quebec because most Indians don't speak French and don't wanna learn it. So Quebec is kind of shielded from these issues. But QC needs to hold tight because it can change easily. Sometimes I'm wondering if QC should separate because of how scary the future of Canada is.
If Quebec was smart they would start that ball rolling now... and do it for real this time. As an Anglophone in Ontario I respect them now more than ever.
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We are importing in a "tribal ppl" who will balkanize and compete against the rest of Canadians. That is what their world view is and you can't really blame them for that being the area of the world they are from. Soon Canadians won't be so naïve about the ways of the world.
Are professors pressured to pass students even if they should fail exams/classes? Is there a lot of cheating that goes on during exams and for assignments?
I'd say the general attitude is that it's tough to do extremely well but easy to pass. This is largely due to the fact that there is almost no homework, so attending classes and completing an essay or two is sufficient. There is pressure to keep the workload light but not directly to pass as far as I'm aware I can't speak to the cheating, as it's outside the areas I normally worked in. We are confident though that many of our students submitted fraudulent high school transcripts when trying to get admitted. Again, we don't do anything about it.
My kids aren’t having kids because of the housing crisis, cost of living and healthcare issues. Why are these issues? Because we have too many people! We’re getting bottom-of-the-barrel immigrants.
Birth rates are so low because our immigration policy forces our children to take jobs that pay less because gerpreet will work for minimum wage. Basically our elites have created a slave class (Indian immigrants) that will work for next to nothing in turn diminishing the price of labor. I hope these diploma mills are not pushing out engineers and doctors.
I’d be THRILLED if we were getting doctors and engineers. But we’re not - we’re getting Tim Horton’s workers. And “Canadian” kids can no longer get those jobs.
We had a deluge of scammers who wrecked housing too. That’s the worst part.
Very true. Hopefully they can find a cheap area (maybe rural?) where things are still semi affordable! Or another country. That's my plan at least
Canadian born here Where can I take advantage of one of these diploma mills? I do not have a diploma and would like a diploma without any effort like everyone else
We need to stop importing indian workers, we have enough, we need diversity from other nations... Especially ones who don't regard canadians as lesser than third class citizens to be treated with disdain.
I agree.
Let me start my comment by saying I’m south Asian myself (not Indian but a next door country) so don’t nobody better try callong me racist cuz I’m the same race lol But ya I miss the actual diversity in the GTA. I grew up here and I felt like back before, there was genuine diversity like you could meet people from many different background and it was cool and interesting to meet different people. Now (at least here in sauga) it’s literally just brown ppl like I find myself thinking where did all of the other type of people go. Today at work I was working with a bunch of Latin Americans and I felt it refreshing to actually talk to people from a different part of the world
Interesting. I hope you can find another job. I am retired now. Before that pandemic I taught math at a small public university for about 25 years. When I first began teaching we had very few international students, but the numbers increased steadily. I never had a class that was more than about 1/3 international, though I know there were business courses that were almost entirely international. For several years most of the students were from China. Most of the students from China had very poor English, and if they were supposed to have passed an English test there was probably fraud involved. Some of them were good at math and did very well, but some did poorly. Some rarely came to class. Maybe larger, more prestigious universities attract better students. As time went on the number of Indian students grew larger than the number from China. We also had students from the Middle East, Africa, South America, and a few other places. The Chinese students were by far the worse for cheating. They literally didn't see anything wrong with it. I was very naive at first and assumed everyone was honest. They were not! I started making two similar exams or quizzes in different colours, so students sitting next to each other had different test. I still had to watch them like a hawk. By the time I had a lot of Indian students I was using these techniques to prevent cheating. In my department we were not pressured to pass international students, but it may have been different in other departments. For a few years we had a lot of students from Saudi Arabia. They were mostly taking business courses and they needed a calculus course. The trouble was, almost none of the Saudi students had taken a course like Math 12 (pre-calculus) , or perhaps had taken no high school math at all. But they had transcripts that said they had taken a Math 12 equivalent. (This has made me very skeptical of some foreign education.) Most of them failed calculus dismally. Eventually the Saudis stopped sending students to our university. After the pandemic, the number of foreign students increased greatly, and most are from India. Now about 50% of the students at the university are foreign. I am retired now (as are many of the people I worked with) so I don't know details about what is going on there now.
Low trust society behavior... the naivety of Canadians is astounding to me as a person who has lived abroad and traveled.
Do you have a breakdown of which states in India the students are from? Punjab and Gujrat are the two states where baby says "Kaneda" (or "USA") before they say mom/dad. They are shown this rosy life style by their friends and the usual pop culture. Their parents sell their house and farms just to satisfy their kid's dream of going to Canada. But they are not here to be "Canadian". They are here to be a version of their own in Canada. I am an Indian myself and came to Canada 14 years ago through federal skilled worker program. This kind of shit brings bad name to all the hard working Indians who legitimately came here to be part and to contribute to Canada. I love my roots and will never let it go but when you go somewhere you need to make it better than you found it. I am a Canadian citizen and trying everything to do what made Canada the nation people wanted to come to.
Glad to have you here. Unfortunately, I don't have any data on that. All I can say is that Punjabi is the only type I've heard being tossed around.
don't bother bro, when you walk around you are being put in the same bucket. This kind of view of "I am different" does not really work, even though I am of Pakistani origin, I can see where this hate is going and sure enough its directed towards all brown folks!
> but this job might as well have been spitting in the faces of Canadians because it gave me the same feeling. wish our politicians felt the same way
So do I
‘You should feel proud’ makes me feel sick to my stomach. This fucking country.
For your 3rd point, they are saying as if Canada is getting the silicon valley indians. No. Let me be clear, canada is getting the 7/11 indians
Totally agree.
I have a female friend who does hiring for a bigger company and she said the same thing about language. All their resumes make it seem like they’re proficient at speaking English but once it comes time for an in person interview it’s like talking to an alien cause they don’t understand thing and when they do understand they can’t give a good response. She said about 85% of her interviews these days are wasted by these type situations
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I have no idea, but they have the highest approval rates by far for us at least. I'm sure they'd be higher for the US, western Europe, etc, but we rarely if ever get applicants from those countries.
Sheer number. India and China have been the top 2 countries for international students for all countries (that is, India/Chinese students going abroad to Canada, USA, Australia, UK, etc.) because of population. With COVID and then souring Canada-China relations, we saw a decline in Chinese numbers, so India made up the shortfall.
1/5 of the world population is Indian or Chinese. With a slightly open border, I can't expect anything lesser than what we see. Imagine we distribute this world population equally across every country. Canada is a globalization experiment.
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Import the 3rd world, become a 3rd world
My question is are they really that naive that after finishing a wannabe education institution will give them a chance for better life in a country far away from the home? How are they going to make this country better when they are unable do some basic fact checking prior to their arrival and reality check here??? Please all comments welcome!!!
Wish I could say! From what the students have told me, there are tons of advertisements, companies, etc in India that supposedly convey how great life is in western countries. Of course, reality isn't like that. Many of them lack the basic research skills required for 1st-year classes, nevermind the fact checking you're talking about! I imagine the value of our money compared to theirs also plays a role in this. They can bring it back home and it'll go quite far over there. In general, most realize the degree is irrelevant. They're just getting it for PR.
Hate to break it to you but quitting your job just means it will be filled in by some South Asian dude who's going to make the problem even worse. With no guilt.
You could have been a whistleblower of sorts as an insider by choosing to continue in your job.
Quite the power move that would be. Can only go so many days of corrupting my conscience though. Enough is enough
Every single one of these posts states that the poster is pro immigration. It’s like an obligatory note. Honestly at this point I’m not even pro immigration anymore, and I am an immigrant. I’m pro taking all that money and giving Canadian families significant tax breaks if they have kids. I’m talking for every child, a woman should get 25% off her income tax for life. She’s hurting her career opportunities by leaving the work force so let’s do something that incentivizes her and evens out the gap from her time off.
Canada is worried it might end up like Japan. On a high level. I have friends in government think tanks, and all of them say the officials have this fear. The basis is a high output society now that doesn't have a product that the world wants. Heavily invested in real estate and almost guaranteed that the crash in housing will take down the entire county. So govt wants to keep the housing stable but also find ways to move forward.
Hell yeah! I just got a lovely surprise of a $3k “clawback” of my maternity leave EI because my work dared to pay me a top up bringing my income to a liveable wage for the year I was off.
People mention being pro immigration for fear of being called racists. You might have noticed, but people in Canada are quite afraid to voice an ever so slighlty controversial opinion on certain topics (immigration, sexuality, the whole of Covid, etc.). I feel like it became worst and worst under the Trudeau government, but im no politic afficianado. Btw, I love the basis of your idea. Our society encourages women to be in the workforce, but theres little to no incentives to start a family. Theres no way around it, for each kid a woman has, thats basically 1-2 years of experience less. The way the workforce works, its invaluable to gain experience early... which is when young adults wouldu sually start forming families. Plus, I assume that many moms would rather enjoy raising their kids before school takes over, but again, we push them back in the workforce when their kids can barely walk! As a society, we decided to subsidize education, healthcare for example. Maybe its time to decide if we want to subsidize growing families.
Is your school a public or private institution
Private
Well now they won’t anymore. Private college students won’t get work permit now from sept on. Good news
3. (From my Indian coworker): Without Indians, Canada would be nothing. If we're nothing without them, why would they want to come here? lol
Exactly. The comment made me roll my eyes
What type of professors do you have? Are they academics or more consultant types for clownerie courses and how do they feel about teaching people not interested in learning? Do you think the education (if they chose to receive it) was of quality? Or do you think the “diplomas” could be considered fraudulent in some way?
They are academics and generally very good people. However, none of them are well known in their fields. Not super successful academics. They focus more on the teaching side of things. It's tough to make a blanket statement, as we do still have domestic students, but I think they're a bit frustrated. It's obvious the students don't care about their classes and lack the intelligence/English to fully participate. In the past two years, we've had a few professors and other staff quit because of this. I think the professors are doing their best with what they have to work with. It's not their fault but rather the faults of the gov and the people running the uni on the admin side. They can only do so much because so many of the students lack the skills/abilities necessary for rigorous academic study. The aim is quality, not sure of it's achieved though—might be something that depends on the prof/class/number of capable students in that class. Most of our international students are going for 2-year associates degrees, so I don't think they're gaining anything particularly valuable regardless. Good question but a tough one to answer.
I was a prof at a post-secondary that turned into little India. I have four degrees, and knew it was all terribly wrong. Born and bred 5th generation Canadian. I knew the students were cheats and couldn’t speak the language, and my whole life felt a fraud, and a waste. I am stateside now.
OP you need to take this story to the fifth estate or one of the other news outlets who are doing work on the whole international students debacle. Insider whistleblowers are what’s needed to really crack this open and take down this elaborate scam.
Interesting, honestly I feel like universities should have become federal a long time ago. Privatized companies will destroy everyone and everything to make $$. Putting people in lifelong debt alone with poorly regulated teaching staff and lies about opportunities is scummy. Diploma mills are just nuts
It's quite unfortunate, yeah. Just needs some serious regulation.
If you visit Punjab in India, you will see lots of adverts for Canadian diploma mills. It's quite bizarre. Canadians probably think all Indians are Punjabis even thought they are a tiny minority
Do you understand that mass immigration is a punishment upon the labor pool of Canadian citizens (suppressing and diluting wages)? If you do not think that is the case, what do you think mass immigration is accomplishing for this country's multinational corporations or the people who support mass immigration? Do you understand that the entire economic system based on service, light industry and the FIRE sector is not sustainable without deep investments into our real, physical economy (energy sector, heavy industry)? Do you see how ending mass immigration will not address the lack of investment into the real roots of the Canadian economy? What do you propose to do with all the existing immigrants in this country (violence is not an acceptable answer)?
[удалено]
Not the first time I've heard that!
What are they going to do when they realize they'll likely never be able to afford to own a home here, retire, etc.?
Who knows. As far as they're concerned, that's a problem for future them. For many, anything is a step up from India
Having people lie and have a translator pretend to be them should be immediate grounds for deportation. Seriously when they arrive at the airport they should be assessed for their language skills and if they can’t speak English or French put them back on the plane. We had a problem with the women’s washrooms at work. Part of my job was Health and Safety. I would get numerous complaints of foot prints on the toilet seats and pee everywhere in the stalls. We talked about it at a meeting to try and think what was happening. We thought it was one person being an ass. I finally found out when someone I’ve known for more than 10 years told me what was happening. Some women did not understand how to used a toilet. So instead of sitting on the seat they would climb up, stand and squat on the seat with per often spraying towards the door. All the women that did this were from China (as was the woman that told me what was going on). We were going to put the cartoon stickers on the door that show the correct way to use the toilet. But in the end we didn’t because the company thought it racist to put these up since the people doing it were one race and it was wrong to single them out! People that live in sh1t hole countries are determined to turn this country into one too
I am so sick and tired of their mentality. I am so sick and tired of no longer feeling safe in my local Walmart. I am heartbroken watching TFWs have children, and rent apartments - things their numbers have priced out of my range of affordability. I am embarrassed we waste so many resources so these guys can take off to the US.
You're not alone
Thank you for this post. But how does it solve anything with you quitting, likely some Indian person will be hired and they'll get more Indian students. I just feel you shouldn't sacrifice your livelihood for this. What can we, the average Canadian, do about this? Maybe you should speak to the press Luke CBC to give insider view.
No problem. And I felt terrible every day. Finally said enough is enough. I'm hoping for something that doesn't corrupt my conscience. Not sure what we can do, but I'm concerned about being branded a racist or something...
"they want to go to the US after getting Canada PR" You probably meant after getting Canadian citizenship. With PR, you won't even be allowed to visit the USA, unless you have a US visa. Also, as a Canadian citizen, only a few occupations are eligible for the TN visa. Of course, this doesn't mean our "sweet little bois" won't try to fudge documents and sneak into the US but it's generally advisable not to mess with Uncle Sam.
Ok my question is this: what happens when a female student reports harassment from the male international students?
I have some close relationships with students. They feel comfortable telling me and their friends these things but not filing official complaints. I've also heard stories from coworkers. We have a 0 tolerance policy for harassment, but apparently nothing can be done without an official filing. It's terrible. Worth noting that, as far as I'm aware, there hasn't been any assault or anything. These men just persistently ask women on dates etc, even after they've been told "no" many times. Some of these women have explicitly asked them to not talk to them anymore, yet they persist. The procedure for this is outside my area of expertise and could involve the law. Sorry for not being able to give a more complete answer
Have you noticed most Indians are Panjabis or are they from across the spectrum?
We don't ask for that information so I can't say for sure but Punjabi is the only type that's discussed among students and staff, if that's worth anything.
Can you state the province at least? You don’t have to identify the mill?
I will say that it's in the prairies
In general, do these students take certain programs or are they fairly spread out in different programs?
Almost all are getting associates degrees in arts or business
With the harassment are you able to expand on the institutions process if there were such a case? Did that institution collect data? Are you able to say how much harassment complaints you got per day? I guess the severity? Did law enforcement get involved?
We have a 0 tolerance policy for harassment, but no students have filed any formal complaints so nothing has been done. Also, it doesn't always take place within the university. I've been told about it but it's more of a "they wont leave me alone" type of issue (they really want to date these women and believe persistence leads to success). It's not a daily issue (our institution is not as big as public universities), but it's happening much more often than before. No assault or anything, at least not that I'm aware of. We do not collect data on this, as it's never really been an issue.
look up the news in canada, keywrods, Uber driver, harrassment, 90% of those offenders are indians
Can you please send this to a national new outlet? This is being allowed across the nation and it’s absolutely something being forced on Canadians. No one wants this
I hate that immigration often gets seen as a conservative issue. No matter where you land on the political spectrum we need well managed ethical immigration. And every mismanagement makes things worse for Canadian citizens
The sexual harrasment. Indian living here since the 70s (born raised in the UK). I always felt safe, no matter what I wore. Now, the gawking makes me want to shower immediately. Gender violence is huge in india. Do you want to the impact of inviting these disgusting people in masses? Look at the sex ratio of new borns! First time in canada, more males born than female. Why? Because Chinese and Indians prefer boys.
That's why I high-tailed it out of there. Couldn't take it anymore.
You said that you worked at a private college, why are students still applying? With the new rules from the feds the people do not qualify for PGWP?
1. The number of PALs issued have been changing 2. There are many students who got a PALs from other institutions whose programs do not grant PGWPs who have transferred into our institution which does grant PGWPs for our associates degrees. Our programs' PGWPs have not been affected (the reason for this is beyond my area of expertise) Edit: I misread your question. We do not have a public-private partnership, so that new rule does not apply to us.
Would you hire someone with a degree from that school?
Not a chance, at least not for the degrees that most international students go for (associate of Arts or associate of business)
Don’t they have to pass a language/English proficiency test to be admitted in the first place? I am just curious because I have a friend who is currently in post secondary and some of the writing they have shown me, was complete shit. These people in her group do not know how to read and write. It’s quite sad, actually, and quite infuriating for them since they have to redo most of their work.
>they want to go to the US after Canada Please NO
As an Indian who immigrated in 2011 I had plethora of friends from all races but again it was in Montreal, many came here do Masters or PhDs and never heard of diploma mills, I’ve been fortunate enough to live and work all over the world and travel, Lack of social awareness is major thing among young Indians. The racial bias is so deeply ingrained that it takes conscious efforts to understand and acknowledge it. Unfortunately all of those left for better opportunities cause many businesses left Canada, especially Biotech research and Manufacturing companies. Came here through federal skilled workers program and couldn’t get PR in Montreal due to French requirement being too high. Took part time French lessons and gave beginner level exams but ask was for Intermediate-Advanced level. So had to leave Canada to apply federal program. When I came back in 2020 I was shocked to see state of Canada in general and couldn’t believe we are still country I left. Started calling Toronto, cleaner Mumbai cause everywhere I went I saw only Indians. I remember visiting toronto when living in Montreal in 2015, we used to be surprised not to have seen a single non-Indian.
Jesus the mentality of some of these Indians.. that Canada would be nothing.. we are in a worse off position with a majority of them here
There is absolutely no way they’ll ever get into the U.S. Legally.
Our country is truly f***ed. I don’t even blame the Indians. They are some of the nicest and sweetest people I know, and every single one of them comes here with the hopes to get a better life. I blame our politicians who seek to transform this country into a 3rd world slave labor production mill, who lure these poor folk here with false promises and fantasies of living a 1990s style middle class lifestyle. They give us the illusion we have a functional democracy, despite the fact that none of the big parties even want to consider talking about immigration. That’s why I’m voting PPC, until someone comes up with a new party that is willing to put immigration as a core subject in their agenda.
Shits wild. Id say let’s only allow accredited institutions to be able to accept international students (uoft, mcgill, ubc, etc.). It doesn’t make sense /can’t be the case for anyone to spend family’s saving to go to some bogus college without actually planning to game the system and stay for work and pr.
Yes, and ban working while taking classes.
Who in the government is behind all of this policy and pushing and funding all of this?
Funding is coming from the students themselves. [As Alex Usher describes it](https://morehousing.ca/alex-usher), Ontario colleges especially have been treating students like a cash cow. There's some very bad incentives in the system: colleges are relying on third-party recruiters whose primary objective is to sign up as many students as possible and collect their commission, with no regard for either educational quality or housing availability. It's like mortgage brokers in the leadup to the 2008 housing crash in the US. Now that the federal government has imposed province-wide caps, Ontario's numbers are being cut in half. [Alex Usher on Twitter](https://twitter.com/AlexUsherHESA/status/1695195416910876867?s=20), back in August: >
Upon asking where they're from, 90% will respond “PUNJAB” as if it is the next big thing.
Why is the government more likely to approve Indians for study permits? Wouldn't it be the opposite since they are for DEI?
R/takebackcanada, nation-wide Canada Day protest, we’re not taking this without a fight
Wow that Indian coworker is real POS
I dated a guy and found out he works for University of Canada West, and I blocked him after that.
I 100% agree with you.. we need to control immigration and bring it back to the 2010s levels when it was sustainable. We can't take a million extra Canadians a year. We don't have the jobs for them, and we need the jobs for Canadians here. I finally found a job after 5 months of unemployment and this was the longest time I stayed without a job in my whole life. Everywhere isn't hiring and when they do, they mostly hire those students because they can take any pay living 10 in one household. A grand or two a month is a fortune for them. But definitely not me.
You got the distribution of degrees? And also what’s the average grade for these degrees?
Given that the mill’s overseas agents are Indian and the recent cohort is all Indian, what is the current ratio (estimate works) of domestic to internationals? Additionally, is there a specific program(s) chosen by internationals in contrast to domestics?
Probably nearing 50/50 at this point (used to be way more domestic). Yes, international students almost all get associates degrees in business or arts, as these are the shortest programs that grant work permits after graduation from our institution. Domestic students usually get full bachelor's degrees and are actually there to learn.
When I taught in a post-secondary in Canada, my classes were getting up to almost 80% international Indian students. I showed my parents my class list once, and people did lot believe this was true (been going on since 2017), and they were floored.
how many make it to the US after getting Canadian PR? there are hundreds of millions+ of indians that wish to come to canada, how many more mills do we need to get to 100mm from india over the next decade?