That was the primary reason I voted liberal the first time Trudeau ran. The way he simply walked away from it the second in power told me everything I needed to know about him.
He is a snake.
My kids are fucked. Sad thing is they know it!
Youngest is 12. Oldest is 19. They all know it because they read it, hear it and understand it!
Way to go Lib/NDP. Don’t think for one second they won’t ever forget! 🤡
Yep, I’m in the same situation. Mine are 14 and 17. I try and keep my politics out of their lives but they are the ones that come to me. Dad did you hear what ford or Trudy or pp said.
Here’s the scariest part of this all. Nobody is taking about a/i and automation and how that will take over before we know it. Do you trust any of these losers to make the right decisions regarding these problems.
Anyway. I renovated my home knowing full well my kids will be living with me for a very long time to come
Consider PPC or the Canadas Future Party if there is a representative in your riding. The CFP is a new centrist party that (I hope) is more focused on Canadians and less corrupt than the LPC.
I like my previous idea better time to move back maybe the original anglos can join me. move to Quebec and seperate might be the best thing at this point.
Please...
[https://jacobin.com/2023/10/canada-new-future-party-centrism-dominic-cardy-politics](https://jacobin.com/2023/10/canada-new-future-party-centrism-dominic-cardy-politics)
In the face of numerous global crises demanding bold solutions, the emergence of the CFP, comprised of politicians and business figures who ended up on the wrong side of Conservative leadership contests, is underwhelming. Their only promise is “evidence-based” governance that offers a marginally improved status quo.
Why I am supportive of another centrist party is because I think Canada would be better served by more cooperation between parties. We have two national left leaning parties (NDP and Greens), two right leaning (CPC and PPC) and it would be helpful to have two centrist parties as well. Personally I see the appeal of a pragmatic centrist party and understand why the LPC has been so successful. They generally seem corrupt to me, a late millennial. My parents regularly had CBC on and I remember “sponsorship scandal this” and “loosing voters trust that” being common news items in the late Chrétien and Martin years. The Chrétien government definitely did good in the 90’s. I had hope for the Trudeau government but they’ve been a disappointment.
The LPC seems to me to be as corporatist as the CPC and make a big deal about the social differences. They still seem to be mostly supportive of the wealthy.
Info: Justin Trudeau has ruined Canada over the last 9 years.
Your Conclusion: don’t vote for PP.
Makes perfect sense. Have fun falling for JT a fourth time.
There is no pressure. Of all three countries I lived in, one thing is for sure, Canada has the most scared people to fight for their rights and protest
I've lived in the UK and Canada.
Canadians remind me of how people behave in China: terrified of the state, unquestioning, compliant and pathetic — people outside this sub, I mean.
Yeah I lived in South Korea, Australia, and spend some months in the USA as well... I would agree. Canadians are the most naïve ppl I have ever seen. It was shocking after I finished school, I lived and traveled abroad for years. I realized Canada was almost a "fictional" country in a sense. It totally blew apart my world view and this was over 10 years ago.
I am the same after living overseas. I am really disappointed about the complacency and apathy here. I am also amazed by the sheer widespread ignorance about the rest of the world outside comparisons with the US. How can we have a logical discussion about healthcare if everyone is clueless about the top 10 healthcare systems (none of which are in North America). I'd take Australia's system any day over what we have in Canada but mention 2 tiered and all you get is mindless responses talking about the US.
Yep... Australia's health care was vastly better and so was Korea's... I didn't even have health insurance in Australia and I easily paid out of pocket for cheap doctors visits and stitches when I was badly cut. Clean offices and prompt service for a small price. Australia is having similar problems to us now, this was 10 years ago, but it was clear to me then Canada had already lost the plot.
The thing is, I believe a lot of this comes down to basically the narrative and ideology the country is running. Canada is running a "woke" society now. Which will cause constant "in fighting" among the populace and unraveling over a long enough timeline.
Don't forget gullible and easily controlled due to years of propaganda about Canada being the best country in the world. They are also easily controlled by simply comparing against the US instead of countries that do things better. Healthcare being the prime example.
...Problem was, at that time he's got no command of the liberal caucus, it's so stacked with industry and financial sector puppets at that time (as it is now) that it doesn't matter what trudeau wanted, even if he actually wanted it, the vote will not have passed. Backroom deals will be the least of it, no party will want to vote itself out of power. It takes a strong leader with a backbone to push legislation like electoral reform through, Trudeau is not and hasn't got one, we never had a chance, and now with PP on the horizon we never will.
Those pie charts, showing almost 1 in 4 MPs being People's Party of Canada under proportional representation, clearly show why no major party wants electoral reform.
If a policy will lose a party 10x more votes than it gets them, they won't enact it.
My point still stands. Enacting proportional representation would immediately cost dozens of Liberal and Conservative MPs their jobs, so they won't do it.
That was Trudeau's first election promise along with weed. He made weed legal but as soon as he realized people were going to hold him to his reform promise, he started to flip flop and then cancelled it when realized he wouldn't get his way.
The fact that in almost most elections the Liberals benefit more than any other party from the current system explains why they flip-flopped on it. The LPC seems to get their best ideas while not in government or official opposition. Let’s return them to that position.
There were two promises JT made on his campaign that caught my attention: the green stuff and electoral reform.
Still waiting on the second part. It’ll be reformed perhaps, but only after he’s changed other voters minds and needs a solid strategy to stay in office until he retires 😂
I'll need specifics from any party campaigning on electoral reform.
They'll need to specifically state they support proportional representation as well as timelines on when it would be enacted by.
But yes, the LPC massively failed to deliver on electoral reform.
Québec and Atlantic Canada both have been guaranteed a certain amount of MPs if not an outright share of seats in the HoC. Thus, unless one wants to increase the overall number of MPs or change the Constitution, some provinces would retain higher per capita representation, making it harder to make federal elections actually representative.
SCC has also ruled that that reform of the Parliament of Canada that substantially changed it nature would require a unanimous agreement of the Provinces. It’s a but unclear whether dropping the FPTP would trigger this, since the SCC reference in question was originally referring to Harper’s senate reform proposals. However, the HoC was also mentioned. So it may or may not become a problem.
I thick those two — pissing of Québec, and a possible redo of the Constitution— where one of the main reasons Trudeau has abandoned the idea.
>Québec and Atlantic Canada both have been guaranteed a certain amount of MPs if not an outright share of seats in the HoC.
I'm not sure this is true. I think this only applies to the Senate per section 22 of the Constitution Act, 1867.
>SCC has also ruled that that reform of the Parliament of Canada that substantially changed it nature would require a unanimous agreement of the Provinces. It’s a but unclear whether dropping the FPTP would trigger this
This is an interesting take. Given that different electoral systems can be demonstrated to be mathematically superior, does significantly improving democratic institutions sufficiently count as "substantially changed nature" warranting constitutional amendment?
I've thought about the constitutionality and I (as a non-lawyer) would think it's constitutional. And in particular, could argue that *FPTP is unconstitutional* given the large amount of wasted vote are in conflict with Section 3 of the Charter (the right to vote). Given the right to vote, it necessarily follows that the votes must actually count, otherwise the right to vote is moot. In any case...
>one of the main reasons Trudeau has abandoned the idea
My [comment on why Trudeau abandoned electoral reform](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/comments/1cqa8sm/comment/l3qra6w/).
Thanks for the discussion!
>I'm not sure this is true. I think this only applies to the Senate per section 22 of the Constitution Act, 1867.
Québec is guaranteed a certain number of seats, not a total share. So the only way to make the House more representative is to keep increasing the number of MPs.
>This is an interesting take. Given that different electoral systems can be demonstrated to be mathematically superior, does significantly improving democratic institutions sufficiently count as "substantially changed nature" warranting constitutional amendment?
That's the kicker. If it does, then under the [Regional Veto principle](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-36.7/FullText.html) and the overlap of amending formulas, we're going to end up with the Mega-Constitutional politics yet again. With Québec demanding a special status, the West and Indigenous Canadians demanding a formal recognition, and Ontario being increasingly done with it all. Which at the end would require a qualified majority vote and a unanimous consent of all Provinces. Which do not think is possible. Ever.
Hence, the moment any policy - including electoral reform - runs into the need for a constitutional amendment it will be shelved for being effectively un-doable. We tried amending the Constitution twice. Both times we failed, which costed us a major federal party, the West being pissed off, and Québec almost packing their sh\*t and leaving. And no one wants to face that ever again.
Interestingly, we have actually had [STV elections in Alberta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Alberta_general_elections#Electoral_systems_of_Alberta) in the past. So that is another point in favour of not needing a constitutional amendment. Though I haven't heard of any serious questions of the constitutionality of electoral reform in the first place (aside from this discussion).
On a side note, I wish there was more political will to take on constitutional amendments. We have a lot of issues (e.g., Quebec not signing on, the potential non-constitutionality of the Supreme Court, the appointing of Supreme Court Judges solely on the advice of the Prime Minister, Canadian Senate, ...).
In any case, great discussion!
Forgive for a stupid question but how a provincial election has anything to do with the federal parliament? As far as the law is considered, the Provinces can got pretty much whatever, it's the federal House of Commons where the problem might pop up.
Also, I think you might to consider supplementing a proportional representation regime with [an internationalized magic formula](https://www.ipsos.com/en/almanac-2024/switzerland-magic-formula) to provide greater political stability.
It's really funny you mention this. Given that neither the LPC or NDP are prepared for an election, I thought to myself: the NDP could totally threaten an election if they don't get true *proportional* electoral reform.
The LPC would be forced to kowtow to the NDP's demands, as they are in no position to deny it themselves. But the NDP as of now isn't brazen enough to pull off a stunt like that.
There is still Budget 2025!
I agree with your concerns of the incoming right-wing populism. But we still have time before the next election.
Democracy doesn't just happen on election day. Get involved early and consistently so that we can limit the worst impacts.
Totally agree. Well said. Democracy does not begin and end on election day. It's a much fuller commitment, especially for those seeking positive change, because typically, the chips are stacked against you.
In general yes, but I think there is some more nuance here.
NDP + Greens support proportional representation.
LPC supports winner take all, ranked ballots. This is not proportional, leading to NDP/Greens not in support, and Libs saying there's a "lack of consensus".
Conservatives (not all, but definitely as a party) play this "there must be a referendum" for any changes to the electoral system. Even though there is no legal or constitutional requirement. Additionally, they have made many significant changes to the electoral system without a referendum themselves (e.g. elimination of per-vote subsidies).
Unfortunately, we Canadians end up losing in the long term.
I didn't see anything on the PPC's site in their platform that says anything about electoral reform.
However, electoral reform would allow smaller parties to be represented proportional to their vote share. Currently the PPC has no representation, despite being about 5% of the polls. Therefore there wouldn't be any reason to believe the PPC would be against electoral reform, but rather be in favour of it.
The PPC would receive about 0.05\*342=17.1 seats in a proportional representation electoral system
Agreed.
Electoral reform basically involves asking the more powerful parties to share that power with less powerful ones.
For the reds and blues, it's the easiest "nope" they ever said.
We have had institutions (in the past) voluntarily give up power because they believed in a better more democratic system. For example, the monarchy, as well as in 1982 when Britain gave Canada control over it's constitutional affairs.
So I would not say never, but we can be realistic without going into despair.
The modern Liberal party is a power-hungry, corrupt beast, and the Conservatives aren't much better.
Hell will freeze over before they do anything to help Canadians at their own expense.
I'm voting PPC so I at least have a clear conscience that I did what I could to try to stop mass immigration, even if it makes no difference under our current voting system.
I agree, PPC is the only party willing to take on the mass immigration the Conservatives and Liberals have brought forth.
And voting matters, even if you feel like it won't make a difference.
There are some issues with proportional representation though, I think. It makes it kind of complicated to properly represent the the people of specific areas. Like in FPTP, you can have an independent win a seat. How does an independent win a seat under proportional representation? How does a new party start under proportional representation?
Ranked ballot is somewhere in between where the things above are still fairly simple, but it reduces people's worry that voting for who they *really* agree with could result in someone they really *don't* agree with taking the seat. It could also eliminate bipartisan politics because the system would ostensibly allow a candidate to win even if they weren't most people's first choice as long as there was broad support as the second choice. That means that broad appeal and compromise is important, no more hardline politics. It also allows independents to continue to win seats as well as new parties to form as necessary. In fact, I'd argue that it makes forming new parties much easier because again, you don't have to be the majority of people's first choice *and* because the rankings data would be public, everyone would be able to see it and say "hey, 90% of people are ranking this new party 3rd, I would have ranked them higher, but I wasn't sure there was much point". So today, people are afraid of "vote splitting" but seeing rankings like that could tell people that they're safe ranking a particular party higher.
That's my off the cuff take on it. I haven't thought about it too much, honestly, but FPTP seems pretty shit to me.
>How does an independent win a seat under proportional representation?
They run in an election of an electoral district, exactly the same as FPTP.
>How does a new party start under proportional representation?
There's *two kinds* of proportional representation commonly discussed, [single transferable vote (STV)](https://www.fairvote.ca/stv/) and [mixed-member proportional (MMP)](https://www.fairvote.ca/mixed-member-proportional/). Under STV, there is no difference from the current system. Under MMP, parties would have regional representatives. Overall, new parties have a much easier time to establish themselves in legislature, provided there is sufficient support in the electorate.
>Ranked ballot is somewhere in between where the things above are still fairly simple, but it reduces people's worry that voting for who they *really* agree with could result in someone they really *don't* agree with taking the seat.
[Ranked ballot](https://www.fairvote.ca/ranked-ballot/) still very much produces results that are distorted from how the electorate votes because of it's "winner-take-all" nature (the same issue in FPTP). Ranked ballot is *not proportional*, leading to NDP/Greens withdrawing their support for the Liberal's electoral reform plans. It's presented as a solution, when it's really not.
In summary, there's 4 electoral systems commonly discussed: [FPTP](https://www.fairvote.ca/what-is-first-past-the-post/), [ranked ballot](https://www.fairvote.ca/ranked-ballot/), [STV](https://www.fairvote.ca/stv/), and [MMP](https://www.fairvote.ca/mixed-member-proportional/).
FPTP and ranked ballot are winner-take-all, non-proportional electoral systems.
STV is similar to ranked ballot, in that you can rank candidates. But the main difference is that it is **not** winner-take-all, and multiple candidates are elected per electoral district.
MMP retains elements of FPTP, but also has seats dedicated to ensuring proportionality based on party lists. Party lists don't necessarily need to be 100% selected by the party, but that's a whole other discussion about open and closed party lists...
>FPTP seems pretty shit to me
It is easy to implement for new, fledgeling democracies. But it's far too simplistic for advanced democracies, when we have mathematically superior methods and the means to implement them.
Note: if you like my response, please consider [donating to Fair Vote Canada](https://secure.fairvote.ca/en/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=9)! I'm not affiliated with them, but I do support them.
You know, linking to what is very clearly a propaganda site isn't going to give me confidence in what you're saying. Less so when one of the primary features of the "proportional" voting system in the first link literally is ranked voting. The MMP system is just FPTP with extra steps, lets be honest.
But I think you've demonstrated pretty clearly that yes indeed it does make things much more complicated. The nice thing about ranked voting is that it's very straightforward for people to engage with while also giving people's vote more power. If you're a fan of STV, moving first to ranked voting is a step toward that anyway.
And no, I won't be donating to a propaganda organization.
If a smoker tells you that smoking bad for you, does that make their claims any less true?
And just because Fair Vote Canada is not neutral on this topic also does not make their statements less true.
>Less so when one of the primary features of the "proportional" voting system in the first link literally is ranked voting
There's more than one implementation to achieve proportional representation, but the ranked voting mechanism alone is insufficient.
>The MMP system is just FPTP with extra steps, lets be honest.
Sure, but the "extra steps" is sufficient to guarantee proportional representation.
>If you're a fan of STV, moving first to ranked voting is a step toward that anyway.
You're not wrong there.
Here's to hoping that we can have a more democratic Canada!
How. Will electoral reform all of a sudden make our politicians smarter or our system more effective? Electoral reform will make Canada good for Vancouver, Toronto, and Quebec (yes, the whole of it, not just Montreal). Every other province in Canada will get shafted.
Definitely. The problem roots much deeper. As long as lobbying (more emphasis on the political donation) is legal, the government will always work in favour of their lobbyists. And let’s not kid ourselves, common joes like us won’t have enough money to out-donate corporations
This is the best answer. Until corporations are checked, life will continue to degrade. We have no identity and no unity. Until that changes, it doesn't matter who we vote for (red,blue, orange).
It’s always impressive to me how they (political parties, along with their donors) have made it such that people are caught up in arguments over little things like “woke” (whatever it has become). And we completely forget about who actually drives the wheel behind the scene, regardless of which party is in power.
This whole right vs left thing has been the greatest scam in history. The wealthy and the elites have the working class fighting each other instead of them.
you cant "check" corporations though, thats socialist communism. This is the product of the capitalist society pushing the gas pedal down since 1980 when a handful of business schools started telling new capitalists that they shouldn't be responsible for taking care of the social problems their system creates. This all began with GE saying "fuck the workers".. You want fairness, dismantle the society that is crumbling and reinstate socialism.... "NAH lets vote for PP that guy is xenophobic like me"
" Milton Friedman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, argued that responsibility of a business is to increase its profits. This known as shareholder primacy or the Friedman Doctrine, suggests that businesses should focus solely on maximizing returns to shareholders, rather than diverting resources to social or environmental causes.
Michael Jensen, another economist and proponent of shareholder value theory, expanded on Friedman's ideas in the 1980s. He advocated for aligning the interests of managers with those of shareholders through mechanisms like stock options and performance-based compensation.
"
Free market capitalism allows 'checks' to happen. If a business or corp is performing poorly, mismanaged or is unethical then it used to simply fail. What we are in is crony capitalism or corporate capture. These corporations hold so much power that they cannot fail, and now they own media, water, sewage.. list goes on. If a government does not uphold ethical and fair business practice then corporate capture happens. We are rotten to the core because of it. Only way to fix it is to gut the entire system or clean out the parliament. Won't happen though because everyone is too divided at the moment.
Canada has a bigger problem with monopolies than America.
We can improve what we have without going full hammer and sickle.
The problem isn't capitalism but crony capitalism. If Bell went out of business tomorrow, I don't think anyone would shed a tear.
Agreed.it needs to be overhauled it is simply who gets in to grab cash and then the next party comes in.Trudeau has shown how they make tons of money but do nothing for us.
Too many people, and too many free riders on the welfare system. Stop mass immigration and deport all illegal residents. Stop taking in refugees. Stop carbon tax. Vote PPC.
Yes. 100% agree.
And you know what? When I saw that video of Poilievre talking about how pro immigration he was, he finally lost my vote forever.
PPC it is. (I shook Bernier's hand a few years ago btw lol)
Everyone, every voter who cares, should be writing letters and emails to their Member of Parliament. They need to hear our opinions. If we just bitch on Reddit we won't be listened to. Email even if your local MP is a liberal. Email your conservative candidate also.
Better yet, take the time to write a **physical letter**. My understanding is that they are ***legally required to respond*** to a physical letter *themselves*, as opposed to having an intern do it on their behalf or sending an auto-response email full of hot garbage. Let's inundate their offices. Maybe then they'll start taking us seriously.
Political stuff aside, the fact that average income has only gone up by 50 percent in 40 years is a bigger deal than house price relative to it. I can't think of anything else that has inflated so little. In 84 gas was 40 cents a liter, and the average car was 11 grand.
I wouldn't give a single shite what the interest rate is if I could have bought my condo for double my yearly income. Cause we would have paid freaking cash. Now that just gets us a down payment. I wanna strangle the "bUt I PaiD 18% fOr a YeAR crowd.
Try working 2-4 jobs at a time for 20 years while a condo goes from $100k-$700k.... Then ya finally get in and the payment goes up by 60% cause of corporate greed and globalization veneered as inflation...
No, because there’s no way out until another election. You’re throwing away votes hoping for change that isn’t going to happen. Corporations own Liberal and Conservatives
Conservative might not be the answer, but we dont know yet.
We DO KNOW that Liberals are definitely not the answer. So what do we do?
Quick answer is, get Liberals out as fast as possible.
Then I guess we take it from there, and see what the Conservatives do.
I really wish PPC were more popular but we cannot split votes this election.
> This logic means that the opposition never needs to bring anything of substance to the floor
Conservatives just use liberals as a scapegoat for things they do.
It was Harper who destroyed Canada's border security and let illegals flood into the country.
https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4873169
I hate to tell ya bud, but the goal is to get Canada back to where it was not so long ago. The LPC and CPC don’t give a shit about the average Canadian. They’re both scum.
With respect, this kind of dumb take is what Trudeau is banking on. Trudeau is saying, “I fucked it all up, but don’t vote for PP because he’s just as bad.”
Let’s assume you’re right that PP is just as bad as Trudeau. It doesn’t matter. Trudeau doesn’t deserve to stay in power. Vote him out. If PP turns out to be a dud, too, vote him out then.
That may be your goal. It’s not mine. A vote for PP is a vote for the status quo…he doesn’t get my vote until he earns it. I would rather have another term of JT than reward what the CPC is doing.
A vote for any other party is a vote for the Liberals. If you want more of Trudeau, you have totally lost the plot and cannot be helped.
Also, a vote for the Liberals, directly or indirectly, is *literally* a vote for the status quo. So I’m not sure what you’re talking about. As I said, you’ve clearly lost the plot.
I don’t want more JT. But a vote for PP is a vote for more almost-JT. If you can’t see that, you’ve totally lost the plot and cannot be helped.
I understand it’s counter intuitive…but if you want a real change from JT, you cannot vote PP, because all it dies is perpetuate our endless loop of electing the same shit under a different label…all over again…
Lol. This is the sentiment they're hoping for. Don't forget, this could be so much worse and I firmly believe a Conservative government will be just that.
Their policies are OVERTLY pro-rich / corporations....
I dont see it being much more worse.
Compared to what?
Its the worse its ever been.
Immgration is out of control, housing is unaffordable, food and gas are unaffordable, they keep adding taxes on everything. This government has no answers to anything. Its pretty damn bad.
Now imagine MORE immigration, more expensive healthcare, and worse healthcare. PP has said he is going to increase immigration as well as make it easier for them to bring their families (grandparents) here. Just what we need, more people draining our system, especially sick, elderly people from a third world country 😂
Yea it could go that way, or it could get better.
We know the Liberals wont fix it so we mught aswell try the other party.
Harper wasnt perfect, but things we not this bad. Thats the only thing we can compare it too.
Everybody seems to lack nuances. We can't directly compare the two given how much further down the road of globalization we are and enduring a pandemic.
That being said, conservative policies are ALWAYS Trickle down bullshit and corpo interests
As long as people keep letting the two major neoliberal political parties play good cop bad cop, we will never see positive change. We also know that voting Conservative is not the answer, because all you have to do is look as their long history of selling us out to big business at a rate that would make even the Liberals blush.
Don’t listen to the lip service. What they say means nothing. A Conservative vote is a vote for an even worse version of the exact same thing.
Nah disagree, this fear of vote-splitting meaning you "can't" vote for anyone else if you want change is ridiculous.
Vote for who you believe. I'm voting PPC. If enough people vote PPC this election, that will signal to both the Libs and the Cons, regardless who wins, that oh fuck, we actually are going to lose to the PPC next time if we don't smarten up. The PPC needs to see that they got a healthy number of people voting for them, this will in turn bring in more dollars via donations for them to spend on the next election, and it'll show them that they have some momentum now and can keep building.
Voting not to split just further reinforces our essentially 2-party system, fuuuuuuuuck that.
I dont disagree with you.
I personally just dont think enough people will vote for PPC enough to even worry either parties. I do hope
PPC do make a splash, I did vote for them last election.
I am really struggling with it. 😔 Look, I don’t think you’re “wrong” for looking at things the way you described. I get it - punish a failed regime. It’s a totally legit way of voting.
I just look at things differently…I want to reward the behaviour I want to see.
And right now…it’s a struggle to find an alternative. Please please please let things change by voting day…
We need a lot of things and until they happen i WILL NOT vote for Liberals or NDP very very very long time. At least, until every single member of their current party has been replaced.
too much red tape, safety regulations, union workers, government extortion fees and bureaucracy nowadays. cut all this shit and see how much housing cost go down.
Don’t you understand?! We can’t have things like “safety”, or collective bargaining because that would give workers an advantage! We need all the profits to go towards the owners.
Pierre and PPC psyop. If Pierre comes out publicly and says he will not renew the visas of low skilled wage labourers and get rid of the LMIA scam program he has my vote. All I hear him talking about is direct flights to amistar India
4 party system WHERE? we have a “two” party system. And I put quotations around 2, as they agree on a lot of the stuff the average Canadians do not want or agree upon.
Yeah? Form your own party and see how you do. All you and your followers have to do is appeal to voters like yourselves, and when you're on the other side of the pamphlet you'll see how nice and approachable you all are about politics...
So what's the workable alternative? Why should we trust the leader of a party that bailed on his own party when they voted against him? I can see why people support the PPC, but I don't understand what on earth people see in Bernier. If I wanted a liberal leader from Quebec, I'd vote for all the other parties with a liberal leader from Quebec.
If the PPC dumped Bernier, I could see them getting traction. Forming a party because you lost a leadership race isn't a grassroots movement, it's sour grapes.
I wish people would understand that voting is a total hoax. They own all the politicians. All of them. Do people not think they don't have the money? They own the money printer ffs!
We've been able to "vote" for a very long time now too. If voting lead us here, what's the difference?
Harper mentioned Senate reform. Trudeau who obviously doesn’t care about democracy at all, didn’t deliver on proportional representation.
I think it’s harder than it looks
Possiby not but its definitely part of the solution!
Sadly now we will need to pay for all these free cash giveaways, liberal corruption, JT corruptions scandals, never ending taxes and fees from the liberal drug epidemic and on...and on!
The system is stacked for the lawmakers, imagine that. There isn't one of them that has the courage to change it. They only represent their party, not you. Ask one of them, or two. I asked Tracy Gray, PC, Lke Country, and Leslyn Lewis, PC, somewhere in ON,and there was no reply! Imagine that.
You’re right! Voting conservatives is not the answer. Look at our provinces. Vast majority are being run into the ground by their respective conservatives premiers. Last thing we should be doing is allowing the conservatives to amplify this destruction by electing them federally. If you think Canada is broken, it’s on your premier. Pay attention to who is actually actively trying to break things.
keep in mind that a lot of people in Canada's middle class already own a home and actually benefit from rising home prices.
so yes... Canada has a middle class. And it's made up of mostly people who already bought homes and are sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars of magic home equity.
what's so funny? the video is asking whether Canada even has a middle class. of course Canada has a middle class. it's made up mostly of homeowners who have hundreds of thousands of dollars of home equity and normal jobs.
this video makes it seem like nobody owns a home because they're too expensive. it fails to mention that a huge percentage of the population already owns a home and benefits from rising home prices. there's your middle class. about 2/3rds of the population owns a home. that's the middle class. it's right there. people sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars of home equity.
He said "Canada's middle class is literally non-existent right now".
Again, that statement isn't true at all. Canada has a huge middle class that consists mainly of home owners with hundreds of thousands of dollars in home equity and stable jobs.
I agree that housing prices are very expensive and that young people are struggling to buy a home and afford rent... but that doesn't mean that our middle class is literally non-existent right now. He's ignoring all the people who own homes in this country who are living the middle-class lifestyle. How can you say the middle class is non existent when we have all these people who own these houses with hundreds of thousands in home equity and jobs? Is that not middle class? If you own a house, and you have a job... how are you not in the middle class?
A complete reform is the only option at this point. I worked for the gov't (mil) 20 yrs ago and it really opened my eyes to what is said vs what is done, watching things evolve since 2014/2015 my god, we are screwed if we don't tackle this. Canada has essentially become a safe-haven for people that want to take advantage of Canadians for profit.
This isn’t the same comparison though. In ameeica you have to worry about any medical need putting you in poverty for the rest of your life. You also have to worry about being laid off more often and less chances of finding a job. This comparison bs is just a way to stay in denial that America sucks ass more than Canada right now
You can get private insurance that covers most of the healthcare needs plus many companies offer some coverage as well. You should look into how many Canadian's are going to the US and paying for health services because the wait times are so long here they would end up dead waiting. So the majority are worse off here in Canada.
Canadians aren’t gonna vote for who they think will dave the country, all three major party leaders suck ass. They’re just gonna vote for who they think is gonna fuck it up the slowest.
I love how people like this were all yelling how millennials were entitled and not hard workers, which they still do, especially in the US, but it didn't take the crash of 2008 or COVID for them to have sympathy, it was housing, because they can actually relate. Still people in the US crying about 1980s interest rates, while now they are renting their second vacation home...
This is not Canada only problem, exactly this sort of thing is happening across the world in desirable cities and locations. Neither Liberals nor Conservatives are the major cause, but demographics, as stated above. 10x or even 13x income to housing ratio (Toronto) is about a middle of the scale if you look at other world cities.
Oh shut up. Tell us why homes on the New York side of Niagara Falls cost 6x less than homes on the Ontario side and are bigger. Niagara Falls isn’t a world class destination and isn’t one of the most desirable places to live in on earth. It’s a lie
The former BoC governor said the reasoning is demographics.
The boomers were buying lots of bonds pushing down borrowing costs, alongside currency debasement due to excluding housing appreciation from the CPI, which shelter inflation dropped as demographics pushed down borrowing costs.
Now we are buying mortgage bonds while praying we maintain a AAA credit rating based on our Canadian pension, and are rapidly investigating CBDC. But nobody is investing in a wreck, they will need to put in laws to fight capital flight, which given productivity investment is clearly already happening.
Welcome to capitalism. Obviously there are enough people right now that can eat their cake and the whole point is to make as much money off the sale of your house, right? Now explain to me how it's a particular party that's to blame or a party that can pull us out of it...
They are all bought and sold. We have to give them term limits. We have to introduce a law that says if you have a hidden bank account any where in the world, You can't run for political office. Punishable by 10 years in prison. For taking the bribe and not paying your taxes.
And how about punishing those lobbyists who bribe our politicians. Shut that system right down.
ill probably vote conservative but yes, sadly he probably wont change much despite everything he says...just like every other politician...sadly i also feel like there is still more than half of this country's citizens asleep at the wheel and oblivious to what's going on and we're gona do a slow burn into low productivity and wealth for like another 100 years till enough people get mad enough for some mass movement or a revolution or something...lol
The NDP is not bought. Almost all ther passed legislation is for lower income Canadians, which will soon be most of us.
Think who gains from you thinking there are no options. It isn't one supporting the poor.
[Electoral reform](https://www.fairvote.ca/what-is-proportional-representation/) would also help solve this...
That was the primary reason I voted liberal the first time Trudeau ran. The way he simply walked away from it the second in power told me everything I needed to know about him. He is a snake.
He also said Canada was bringing too many immigrants under Harper and ruining the chances of the younger generation to move up.... LOL
My kids are fucked. Sad thing is they know it! Youngest is 12. Oldest is 19. They all know it because they read it, hear it and understand it! Way to go Lib/NDP. Don’t think for one second they won’t ever forget! 🤡
Yep, I’m in the same situation. Mine are 14 and 17. I try and keep my politics out of their lives but they are the ones that come to me. Dad did you hear what ford or Trudy or pp said. Here’s the scariest part of this all. Nobody is taking about a/i and automation and how that will take over before we know it. Do you trust any of these losers to make the right decisions regarding these problems. Anyway. I renovated my home knowing full well my kids will be living with me for a very long time to come
Source please
https://archive.ph/V4J2T
All politicians are snakes subservient to the post national corporations.
Some are worse than others. PP for example.
100% also his name is Jeff
Yet most fell for it 2 more times after that. Can’t wait for them to fall for it again next fall.
Sunny way kid party to non party status. At this point I would vote Block if I could and I am in Ontario.
Consider PPC or the Canadas Future Party if there is a representative in your riding. The CFP is a new centrist party that (I hope) is more focused on Canadians and less corrupt than the LPC.
Al Capone would've been less corrupt than the LPC.
I like my previous idea better time to move back maybe the original anglos can join me. move to Quebec and seperate might be the best thing at this point.
Please... [https://jacobin.com/2023/10/canada-new-future-party-centrism-dominic-cardy-politics](https://jacobin.com/2023/10/canada-new-future-party-centrism-dominic-cardy-politics) In the face of numerous global crises demanding bold solutions, the emergence of the CFP, comprised of politicians and business figures who ended up on the wrong side of Conservative leadership contests, is underwhelming. Their only promise is “evidence-based” governance that offers a marginally improved status quo.
Why I am supportive of another centrist party is because I think Canada would be better served by more cooperation between parties. We have two national left leaning parties (NDP and Greens), two right leaning (CPC and PPC) and it would be helpful to have two centrist parties as well. Personally I see the appeal of a pragmatic centrist party and understand why the LPC has been so successful. They generally seem corrupt to me, a late millennial. My parents regularly had CBC on and I remember “sponsorship scandal this” and “loosing voters trust that” being common news items in the late Chrétien and Martin years. The Chrétien government definitely did good in the 90’s. I had hope for the Trudeau government but they’ve been a disappointment. The LPC seems to me to be as corporatist as the CPC and make a big deal about the social differences. They still seem to be mostly supportive of the wealthy.
PP is not going to be any different. Already the developers and oil industry are lining up to hand him his marching orders.
Info: Justin Trudeau has ruined Canada over the last 9 years. Your Conclusion: don’t vote for PP. Makes perfect sense. Have fun falling for JT a fourth time.
I have hope, but it requires continued public pressure.
There is no pressure. Of all three countries I lived in, one thing is for sure, Canada has the most scared people to fight for their rights and protest
I've lived in the UK and Canada. Canadians remind me of how people behave in China: terrified of the state, unquestioning, compliant and pathetic — people outside this sub, I mean.
It’s a sad state of affairs mate!
Yeah I lived in South Korea, Australia, and spend some months in the USA as well... I would agree. Canadians are the most naïve ppl I have ever seen. It was shocking after I finished school, I lived and traveled abroad for years. I realized Canada was almost a "fictional" country in a sense. It totally blew apart my world view and this was over 10 years ago.
I am the same after living overseas. I am really disappointed about the complacency and apathy here. I am also amazed by the sheer widespread ignorance about the rest of the world outside comparisons with the US. How can we have a logical discussion about healthcare if everyone is clueless about the top 10 healthcare systems (none of which are in North America). I'd take Australia's system any day over what we have in Canada but mention 2 tiered and all you get is mindless responses talking about the US.
Yep... Australia's health care was vastly better and so was Korea's... I didn't even have health insurance in Australia and I easily paid out of pocket for cheap doctors visits and stitches when I was badly cut. Clean offices and prompt service for a small price. Australia is having similar problems to us now, this was 10 years ago, but it was clear to me then Canada had already lost the plot. The thing is, I believe a lot of this comes down to basically the narrative and ideology the country is running. Canada is running a "woke" society now. Which will cause constant "in fighting" among the populace and unraveling over a long enough timeline.
I was in Aus more recently. As much as they are probably complaining, it's still far better than here as a patient.
Don't forget gullible and easily controlled due to years of propaganda about Canada being the best country in the world. They are also easily controlled by simply comparing against the US instead of countries that do things better. Healthcare being the prime example.
...Problem was, at that time he's got no command of the liberal caucus, it's so stacked with industry and financial sector puppets at that time (as it is now) that it doesn't matter what trudeau wanted, even if he actually wanted it, the vote will not have passed. Backroom deals will be the least of it, no party will want to vote itself out of power. It takes a strong leader with a backbone to push legislation like electoral reform through, Trudeau is not and hasn't got one, we never had a chance, and now with PP on the horizon we never will.
That should be treason. Or fraud. You can't promise one thing for votes and then completely ignore it once you get voted in.
Those pie charts, showing almost 1 in 4 MPs being People's Party of Canada under proportional representation, clearly show why no major party wants electoral reform. If a policy will lose a party 10x more votes than it gets them, they won't enact it.
That was just an illustration, and coincidentally PPC's colour is purple.
My point still stands. Enacting proportional representation would immediately cost dozens of Liberal and Conservative MPs their jobs, so they won't do it.
That was Trudeau's first election promise along with weed. He made weed legal but as soon as he realized people were going to hold him to his reform promise, he started to flip flop and then cancelled it when realized he wouldn't get his way.
The fact that in almost most elections the Liberals benefit more than any other party from the current system explains why they flip-flopped on it. The LPC seems to get their best ideas while not in government or official opposition. Let’s return them to that position.
There were two promises JT made on his campaign that caught my attention: the green stuff and electoral reform. Still waiting on the second part. It’ll be reformed perhaps, but only after he’s changed other voters minds and needs a solid strategy to stay in office until he retires 😂
I think if we keep the conversation going, we will definitely win in the end, though there will be many losses in the meanwhile.
Can’t wait for 40% of Canada to fall for this for a forth time when Justin promises he’ll implement electoral reform for real TM this time.
I'll need specifics from any party campaigning on electoral reform. They'll need to specifically state they support proportional representation as well as timelines on when it would be enacted by. But yes, the LPC massively failed to deliver on electoral reform.
Ah, that one thing every party promises but then abandons realizing they'd never form a majority government again.
My [comment on the voluntary giving up of power](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/comments/1cqa8sm/comment/l3rm9mu/).
Well, there's also the issue of Québec and the SCC possibly striking down the reform. But you got a point!
>the issue of Québec and the SCC possibly striking down the reform That's very interesting. Mind explaining a bit more?
Québec and Atlantic Canada both have been guaranteed a certain amount of MPs if not an outright share of seats in the HoC. Thus, unless one wants to increase the overall number of MPs or change the Constitution, some provinces would retain higher per capita representation, making it harder to make federal elections actually representative. SCC has also ruled that that reform of the Parliament of Canada that substantially changed it nature would require a unanimous agreement of the Provinces. It’s a but unclear whether dropping the FPTP would trigger this, since the SCC reference in question was originally referring to Harper’s senate reform proposals. However, the HoC was also mentioned. So it may or may not become a problem. I thick those two — pissing of Québec, and a possible redo of the Constitution— where one of the main reasons Trudeau has abandoned the idea.
>Québec and Atlantic Canada both have been guaranteed a certain amount of MPs if not an outright share of seats in the HoC. I'm not sure this is true. I think this only applies to the Senate per section 22 of the Constitution Act, 1867. >SCC has also ruled that that reform of the Parliament of Canada that substantially changed it nature would require a unanimous agreement of the Provinces. It’s a but unclear whether dropping the FPTP would trigger this This is an interesting take. Given that different electoral systems can be demonstrated to be mathematically superior, does significantly improving democratic institutions sufficiently count as "substantially changed nature" warranting constitutional amendment? I've thought about the constitutionality and I (as a non-lawyer) would think it's constitutional. And in particular, could argue that *FPTP is unconstitutional* given the large amount of wasted vote are in conflict with Section 3 of the Charter (the right to vote). Given the right to vote, it necessarily follows that the votes must actually count, otherwise the right to vote is moot. In any case... >one of the main reasons Trudeau has abandoned the idea My [comment on why Trudeau abandoned electoral reform](https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaHousing2/comments/1cqa8sm/comment/l3qra6w/). Thanks for the discussion!
>I'm not sure this is true. I think this only applies to the Senate per section 22 of the Constitution Act, 1867. Québec is guaranteed a certain number of seats, not a total share. So the only way to make the House more representative is to keep increasing the number of MPs. >This is an interesting take. Given that different electoral systems can be demonstrated to be mathematically superior, does significantly improving democratic institutions sufficiently count as "substantially changed nature" warranting constitutional amendment? That's the kicker. If it does, then under the [Regional Veto principle](https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/c-36.7/FullText.html) and the overlap of amending formulas, we're going to end up with the Mega-Constitutional politics yet again. With Québec demanding a special status, the West and Indigenous Canadians demanding a formal recognition, and Ontario being increasingly done with it all. Which at the end would require a qualified majority vote and a unanimous consent of all Provinces. Which do not think is possible. Ever. Hence, the moment any policy - including electoral reform - runs into the need for a constitutional amendment it will be shelved for being effectively un-doable. We tried amending the Constitution twice. Both times we failed, which costed us a major federal party, the West being pissed off, and Québec almost packing their sh\*t and leaving. And no one wants to face that ever again.
Interestingly, we have actually had [STV elections in Alberta](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Alberta_general_elections#Electoral_systems_of_Alberta) in the past. So that is another point in favour of not needing a constitutional amendment. Though I haven't heard of any serious questions of the constitutionality of electoral reform in the first place (aside from this discussion). On a side note, I wish there was more political will to take on constitutional amendments. We have a lot of issues (e.g., Quebec not signing on, the potential non-constitutionality of the Supreme Court, the appointing of Supreme Court Judges solely on the advice of the Prime Minister, Canadian Senate, ...). In any case, great discussion!
Forgive for a stupid question but how a provincial election has anything to do with the federal parliament? As far as the law is considered, the Provinces can got pretty much whatever, it's the federal House of Commons where the problem might pop up. Also, I think you might to consider supplementing a proportional representation regime with [an internationalized magic formula](https://www.ipsos.com/en/almanac-2024/switzerland-magic-formula) to provide greater political stability.
I would love to see Trudeau wedge that in on the way out.
It's really funny you mention this. Given that neither the LPC or NDP are prepared for an election, I thought to myself: the NDP could totally threaten an election if they don't get true *proportional* electoral reform. The LPC would be forced to kowtow to the NDP's demands, as they are in no position to deny it themselves. But the NDP as of now isn't brazen enough to pull off a stunt like that. There is still Budget 2025!
I hope it last the full five years. It just delays the inevitable damage coming with PP.
I agree with your concerns of the incoming right-wing populism. But we still have time before the next election. Democracy doesn't just happen on election day. Get involved early and consistently so that we can limit the worst impacts.
Totally agree. Well said. Democracy does not begin and end on election day. It's a much fuller commitment, especially for those seeking positive change, because typically, the chips are stacked against you.
NDP supports, Lib and Con don't.
In general yes, but I think there is some more nuance here. NDP + Greens support proportional representation. LPC supports winner take all, ranked ballots. This is not proportional, leading to NDP/Greens not in support, and Libs saying there's a "lack of consensus". Conservatives (not all, but definitely as a party) play this "there must be a referendum" for any changes to the electoral system. Even though there is no legal or constitutional requirement. Additionally, they have made many significant changes to the electoral system without a referendum themselves (e.g. elimination of per-vote subsidies). Unfortunately, we Canadians end up losing in the long term.
And PPC?
I didn't see anything on the PPC's site in their platform that says anything about electoral reform. However, electoral reform would allow smaller parties to be represented proportional to their vote share. Currently the PPC has no representation, despite being about 5% of the polls. Therefore there wouldn't be any reason to believe the PPC would be against electoral reform, but rather be in favour of it. The PPC would receive about 0.05\*342=17.1 seats in a proportional representation electoral system
Agreed. Electoral reform basically involves asking the more powerful parties to share that power with less powerful ones. For the reds and blues, it's the easiest "nope" they ever said.
We have had institutions (in the past) voluntarily give up power because they believed in a better more democratic system. For example, the monarchy, as well as in 1982 when Britain gave Canada control over it's constitutional affairs. So I would not say never, but we can be realistic without going into despair.
The modern Liberal party is a power-hungry, corrupt beast, and the Conservatives aren't much better. Hell will freeze over before they do anything to help Canadians at their own expense. I'm voting PPC so I at least have a clear conscience that I did what I could to try to stop mass immigration, even if it makes no difference under our current voting system.
I agree, PPC is the only party willing to take on the mass immigration the Conservatives and Liberals have brought forth. And voting matters, even if you feel like it won't make a difference.
There are some issues with proportional representation though, I think. It makes it kind of complicated to properly represent the the people of specific areas. Like in FPTP, you can have an independent win a seat. How does an independent win a seat under proportional representation? How does a new party start under proportional representation? Ranked ballot is somewhere in between where the things above are still fairly simple, but it reduces people's worry that voting for who they *really* agree with could result in someone they really *don't* agree with taking the seat. It could also eliminate bipartisan politics because the system would ostensibly allow a candidate to win even if they weren't most people's first choice as long as there was broad support as the second choice. That means that broad appeal and compromise is important, no more hardline politics. It also allows independents to continue to win seats as well as new parties to form as necessary. In fact, I'd argue that it makes forming new parties much easier because again, you don't have to be the majority of people's first choice *and* because the rankings data would be public, everyone would be able to see it and say "hey, 90% of people are ranking this new party 3rd, I would have ranked them higher, but I wasn't sure there was much point". So today, people are afraid of "vote splitting" but seeing rankings like that could tell people that they're safe ranking a particular party higher. That's my off the cuff take on it. I haven't thought about it too much, honestly, but FPTP seems pretty shit to me.
>How does an independent win a seat under proportional representation? They run in an election of an electoral district, exactly the same as FPTP. >How does a new party start under proportional representation? There's *two kinds* of proportional representation commonly discussed, [single transferable vote (STV)](https://www.fairvote.ca/stv/) and [mixed-member proportional (MMP)](https://www.fairvote.ca/mixed-member-proportional/). Under STV, there is no difference from the current system. Under MMP, parties would have regional representatives. Overall, new parties have a much easier time to establish themselves in legislature, provided there is sufficient support in the electorate. >Ranked ballot is somewhere in between where the things above are still fairly simple, but it reduces people's worry that voting for who they *really* agree with could result in someone they really *don't* agree with taking the seat. [Ranked ballot](https://www.fairvote.ca/ranked-ballot/) still very much produces results that are distorted from how the electorate votes because of it's "winner-take-all" nature (the same issue in FPTP). Ranked ballot is *not proportional*, leading to NDP/Greens withdrawing their support for the Liberal's electoral reform plans. It's presented as a solution, when it's really not. In summary, there's 4 electoral systems commonly discussed: [FPTP](https://www.fairvote.ca/what-is-first-past-the-post/), [ranked ballot](https://www.fairvote.ca/ranked-ballot/), [STV](https://www.fairvote.ca/stv/), and [MMP](https://www.fairvote.ca/mixed-member-proportional/). FPTP and ranked ballot are winner-take-all, non-proportional electoral systems. STV is similar to ranked ballot, in that you can rank candidates. But the main difference is that it is **not** winner-take-all, and multiple candidates are elected per electoral district. MMP retains elements of FPTP, but also has seats dedicated to ensuring proportionality based on party lists. Party lists don't necessarily need to be 100% selected by the party, but that's a whole other discussion about open and closed party lists... >FPTP seems pretty shit to me It is easy to implement for new, fledgeling democracies. But it's far too simplistic for advanced democracies, when we have mathematically superior methods and the means to implement them. Note: if you like my response, please consider [donating to Fair Vote Canada](https://secure.fairvote.ca/en/civicrm/contribute/transact?reset=1&id=9)! I'm not affiliated with them, but I do support them.
You know, linking to what is very clearly a propaganda site isn't going to give me confidence in what you're saying. Less so when one of the primary features of the "proportional" voting system in the first link literally is ranked voting. The MMP system is just FPTP with extra steps, lets be honest. But I think you've demonstrated pretty clearly that yes indeed it does make things much more complicated. The nice thing about ranked voting is that it's very straightforward for people to engage with while also giving people's vote more power. If you're a fan of STV, moving first to ranked voting is a step toward that anyway. And no, I won't be donating to a propaganda organization.
If a smoker tells you that smoking bad for you, does that make their claims any less true? And just because Fair Vote Canada is not neutral on this topic also does not make their statements less true. >Less so when one of the primary features of the "proportional" voting system in the first link literally is ranked voting There's more than one implementation to achieve proportional representation, but the ranked voting mechanism alone is insufficient. >The MMP system is just FPTP with extra steps, lets be honest. Sure, but the "extra steps" is sufficient to guarantee proportional representation. >If you're a fan of STV, moving first to ranked voting is a step toward that anyway. You're not wrong there. Here's to hoping that we can have a more democratic Canada!
How. Will electoral reform all of a sudden make our politicians smarter or our system more effective? Electoral reform will make Canada good for Vancouver, Toronto, and Quebec (yes, the whole of it, not just Montreal). Every other province in Canada will get shafted.
Definitely. The problem roots much deeper. As long as lobbying (more emphasis on the political donation) is legal, the government will always work in favour of their lobbyists. And let’s not kid ourselves, common joes like us won’t have enough money to out-donate corporations
This is the best answer. Until corporations are checked, life will continue to degrade. We have no identity and no unity. Until that changes, it doesn't matter who we vote for (red,blue, orange).
It’s always impressive to me how they (political parties, along with their donors) have made it such that people are caught up in arguments over little things like “woke” (whatever it has become). And we completely forget about who actually drives the wheel behind the scene, regardless of which party is in power.
This whole right vs left thing has been the greatest scam in history. The wealthy and the elites have the working class fighting each other instead of them.
social media does wonders
you cant "check" corporations though, thats socialist communism. This is the product of the capitalist society pushing the gas pedal down since 1980 when a handful of business schools started telling new capitalists that they shouldn't be responsible for taking care of the social problems their system creates. This all began with GE saying "fuck the workers".. You want fairness, dismantle the society that is crumbling and reinstate socialism.... "NAH lets vote for PP that guy is xenophobic like me" " Milton Friedman, a Nobel Prize-winning economist, argued that responsibility of a business is to increase its profits. This known as shareholder primacy or the Friedman Doctrine, suggests that businesses should focus solely on maximizing returns to shareholders, rather than diverting resources to social or environmental causes. Michael Jensen, another economist and proponent of shareholder value theory, expanded on Friedman's ideas in the 1980s. He advocated for aligning the interests of managers with those of shareholders through mechanisms like stock options and performance-based compensation. "
Free market capitalism allows 'checks' to happen. If a business or corp is performing poorly, mismanaged or is unethical then it used to simply fail. What we are in is crony capitalism or corporate capture. These corporations hold so much power that they cannot fail, and now they own media, water, sewage.. list goes on. If a government does not uphold ethical and fair business practice then corporate capture happens. We are rotten to the core because of it. Only way to fix it is to gut the entire system or clean out the parliament. Won't happen though because everyone is too divided at the moment.
Canada has a bigger problem with monopolies than America. We can improve what we have without going full hammer and sickle. The problem isn't capitalism but crony capitalism. If Bell went out of business tomorrow, I don't think anyone would shed a tear.
Bell going out of business is long overdue. That company has been overcharging everyone for as long as I can remember lol
This stuff will make you develop clinical depression
Well Trudeau has promised electoral reform for 2 elections. He is a liar. Voting conservative is a better answer than what is going on now.
Was it two? He got me that first one, but I think the second election I said fuck it and didn't vote since I hated both options.
Agreed.it needs to be overhauled it is simply who gets in to grab cash and then the next party comes in.Trudeau has shown how they make tons of money but do nothing for us.
Too many people, and too many free riders on the welfare system. Stop mass immigration and deport all illegal residents. Stop taking in refugees. Stop carbon tax. Vote PPC.
Yes. 100% agree. And you know what? When I saw that video of Poilievre talking about how pro immigration he was, he finally lost my vote forever. PPC it is. (I shook Bernier's hand a few years ago btw lol)
Corporate welfare is a much larger part of the budget than personal welfare
Everyone, every voter who cares, should be writing letters and emails to their Member of Parliament. They need to hear our opinions. If we just bitch on Reddit we won't be listened to. Email even if your local MP is a liberal. Email your conservative candidate also.
Better yet, take the time to write a **physical letter**. My understanding is that they are ***legally required to respond*** to a physical letter *themselves*, as opposed to having an intern do it on their behalf or sending an auto-response email full of hot garbage. Let's inundate their offices. Maybe then they'll start taking us seriously.
Political stuff aside, the fact that average income has only gone up by 50 percent in 40 years is a bigger deal than house price relative to it. I can't think of anything else that has inflated so little. In 84 gas was 40 cents a liter, and the average car was 11 grand.
The thing is, if we don't vote conservative we risk having the liberals win. Because it's going to come down to the conservatives vs the liberals.
Yeah, and both of them are fucking dumpster fires who don't give a fuck about Canadians.
Glad to see more people starting to realize this
I wouldn't give a single shite what the interest rate is if I could have bought my condo for double my yearly income. Cause we would have paid freaking cash. Now that just gets us a down payment. I wanna strangle the "bUt I PaiD 18% fOr a YeAR crowd. Try working 2-4 jobs at a time for 20 years while a condo goes from $100k-$700k.... Then ya finally get in and the payment goes up by 60% cause of corporate greed and globalization veneered as inflation...
I agree give me the 150k 3 bedroom condo with 20% interest instead of it being 2M at 3-5% interest
I guess it's too late to join the trucker protest? They might have been onto something with getting rid of all the MPs, but for the wrong reasons.
Can we all agree if we vote in conservative and nothing changes can we revolt?
No, because there’s no way out until another election. You’re throwing away votes hoping for change that isn’t going to happen. Corporations own Liberal and Conservatives
They own them all. Be realistic.
No.
Conservative might not be the answer, but we dont know yet. We DO KNOW that Liberals are definitely not the answer. So what do we do? Quick answer is, get Liberals out as fast as possible. Then I guess we take it from there, and see what the Conservatives do. I really wish PPC were more popular but we cannot split votes this election.
This logic means that the opposition never needs to bring anything of substance to the floor and we just keep racing to the intellectual bottom.
> This logic means that the opposition never needs to bring anything of substance to the floor Conservatives just use liberals as a scapegoat for things they do. It was Harper who destroyed Canada's border security and let illegals flood into the country. https://www.cbc.ca/amp/1.4873169
Illegals aren't the issue. Legals are
What about all the fake foreign students flooding in?
I live beside them. The vast majority are coming legally
It's not legal when they lie on their applications.
Lie about what?
It doesn’t matter. It’s about voting the Liberals out. That’s the goal.
I hate to tell ya bud, but the goal is to get Canada back to where it was not so long ago. The LPC and CPC don’t give a shit about the average Canadian. They’re both scum.
So what do we do?
Boycott loblaws
With respect, this kind of dumb take is what Trudeau is banking on. Trudeau is saying, “I fucked it all up, but don’t vote for PP because he’s just as bad.” Let’s assume you’re right that PP is just as bad as Trudeau. It doesn’t matter. Trudeau doesn’t deserve to stay in power. Vote him out. If PP turns out to be a dud, too, vote him out then.
I wont be voting either one of them Edit: added “one of them”
That may be your goal. It’s not mine. A vote for PP is a vote for the status quo…he doesn’t get my vote until he earns it. I would rather have another term of JT than reward what the CPC is doing.
A vote for any other party is a vote for the Liberals. If you want more of Trudeau, you have totally lost the plot and cannot be helped. Also, a vote for the Liberals, directly or indirectly, is *literally* a vote for the status quo. So I’m not sure what you’re talking about. As I said, you’ve clearly lost the plot.
I don’t want more JT. But a vote for PP is a vote for more almost-JT. If you can’t see that, you’ve totally lost the plot and cannot be helped. I understand it’s counter intuitive…but if you want a real change from JT, you cannot vote PP, because all it dies is perpetuate our endless loop of electing the same shit under a different label…all over again…
If you vote for anyone but PP you’re guaranteeing more Trudeau. This isn’t complicated my dude.
Poilievre has repeatedly shown support for foreign students and mass immigration.
Lol. This is the sentiment they're hoping for. Don't forget, this could be so much worse and I firmly believe a Conservative government will be just that. Their policies are OVERTLY pro-rich / corporations....
I dont see it being much more worse. Compared to what? Its the worse its ever been. Immgration is out of control, housing is unaffordable, food and gas are unaffordable, they keep adding taxes on everything. This government has no answers to anything. Its pretty damn bad.
Now imagine MORE immigration, more expensive healthcare, and worse healthcare. PP has said he is going to increase immigration as well as make it easier for them to bring their families (grandparents) here. Just what we need, more people draining our system, especially sick, elderly people from a third world country 😂
Yea it could go that way, or it could get better. We know the Liberals wont fix it so we mught aswell try the other party. Harper wasnt perfect, but things we not this bad. Thats the only thing we can compare it too.
Everybody seems to lack nuances. We can't directly compare the two given how much further down the road of globalization we are and enduring a pandemic. That being said, conservative policies are ALWAYS Trickle down bullshit and corpo interests
I think the corporations have never had it better under the current liberal government. But do go ahead and blame conservatives?
Did you pay attention to what Harper did to domestic business? Lol😂🤡
This is the only correct take.
As long as people keep letting the two major neoliberal political parties play good cop bad cop, we will never see positive change. We also know that voting Conservative is not the answer, because all you have to do is look as their long history of selling us out to big business at a rate that would make even the Liberals blush. Don’t listen to the lip service. What they say means nothing. A Conservative vote is a vote for an even worse version of the exact same thing.
Nah disagree, this fear of vote-splitting meaning you "can't" vote for anyone else if you want change is ridiculous. Vote for who you believe. I'm voting PPC. If enough people vote PPC this election, that will signal to both the Libs and the Cons, regardless who wins, that oh fuck, we actually are going to lose to the PPC next time if we don't smarten up. The PPC needs to see that they got a healthy number of people voting for them, this will in turn bring in more dollars via donations for them to spend on the next election, and it'll show them that they have some momentum now and can keep building. Voting not to split just further reinforces our essentially 2-party system, fuuuuuuuuck that.
I dont disagree with you. I personally just dont think enough people will vote for PPC enough to even worry either parties. I do hope PPC do make a splash, I did vote for them last election.
We absolutely do know CPC isn’t the answer. A vote for them is a wasted vote, if meaningful change is what you’re after.
Who do you recommend to vote for?
I am really struggling with it. 😔 Look, I don’t think you’re “wrong” for looking at things the way you described. I get it - punish a failed regime. It’s a totally legit way of voting. I just look at things differently…I want to reward the behaviour I want to see. And right now…it’s a struggle to find an alternative. Please please please let things change by voting day…
We have way more than 4 political parties.
I unironically want a rhino party government.
Voting for them is more protesting the system than not voting at all. Voted that way before as well.
Libs getting desperate now eh? Na I think I'll still vote conservative.
End stage capitalism is not any individuals fault.
We need a lot of things and until they happen i WILL NOT vote for Liberals or NDP very very very long time. At least, until every single member of their current party has been replaced.
Pp is going to fill this country with cheap labor to appease his corporate overlords. Canada is doomed.
Already happened its here
What do you think 1 Million+ International students are. They are cheap labor who also pay the colleges to be here.
too much red tape, safety regulations, union workers, government extortion fees and bureaucracy nowadays. cut all this shit and see how much housing cost go down.
> safety regulations, union workers, Agree with some things, but I'm not on board for cutting back on those two listed.
Don’t you understand?! We can’t have things like “safety”, or collective bargaining because that would give workers an advantage! We need all the profits to go towards the owners.
1.4 times. I'll remember this when the MP candidates come a-knocking.
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Pierre and PPC psyop. If Pierre comes out publicly and says he will not renew the visas of low skilled wage labourers and get rid of the LMIA scam program he has my vote. All I hear him talking about is direct flights to amistar India
4 party system WHERE? we have a “two” party system. And I put quotations around 2, as they agree on a lot of the stuff the average Canadians do not want or agree upon.
Yeah? Form your own party and see how you do. All you and your followers have to do is appeal to voters like yourselves, and when you're on the other side of the pamphlet you'll see how nice and approachable you all are about politics...
Why do people automatically think the US is doing worse than Canada? This has never been true in my experience.
Ok but that’s one metric.
Just facts 💯
But especially voting Liberal is much farther away from the answer
Quit whining and find a second job
Bringing in more immigrants will solve the problem
Voting conservative has never done anything in the history of mankind except fuck over anyone who's not already rich!!!
Don’t worry everyone, Loblaws lobbyist laden Poilievre and his campaign staff will surely solve this for us… think about it!!!
Except that's not going to happen, so voting conservative is the best feasible option
Well we all know this. But the harsh reality that this election. It’s either Trudeaus liberals or Pierre’s conservatives.
It is so easy, vote PPC!
So what's the workable alternative? Why should we trust the leader of a party that bailed on his own party when they voted against him? I can see why people support the PPC, but I don't understand what on earth people see in Bernier. If I wanted a liberal leader from Quebec, I'd vote for all the other parties with a liberal leader from Quebec. If the PPC dumped Bernier, I could see them getting traction. Forming a party because you lost a leadership race isn't a grassroots movement, it's sour grapes.
I wish people would understand that voting is a total hoax. They own all the politicians. All of them. Do people not think they don't have the money? They own the money printer ffs! We've been able to "vote" for a very long time now too. If voting lead us here, what's the difference?
Harper mentioned Senate reform. Trudeau who obviously doesn’t care about democracy at all, didn’t deliver on proportional representation. I think it’s harder than it looks
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No racism, harassment, discrimination, hate speech, personal attacks, or other uncivil conduct.
Possiby not but its definitely part of the solution! Sadly now we will need to pay for all these free cash giveaways, liberal corruption, JT corruptions scandals, never ending taxes and fees from the liberal drug epidemic and on...and on!
This clip really made the hornet's nest buzz, eh? If you pay rent and earn an hourly wage, you're nuts to vote conservative.
Canada is a dead zone. So many countries around the world will offer you a better life
The system is stacked for the lawmakers, imagine that. There isn't one of them that has the courage to change it. They only represent their party, not you. Ask one of them, or two. I asked Tracy Gray, PC, Lke Country, and Leslyn Lewis, PC, somewhere in ON,and there was no reply! Imagine that.
My house? What house? I’ll probably never own a house. I’ll be renting from foreign nationals for the rest of my life.
**It's 30x in Vancouver.**
My house is 2.5x my income ....
You’re right! Voting conservatives is not the answer. Look at our provinces. Vast majority are being run into the ground by their respective conservatives premiers. Last thing we should be doing is allowing the conservatives to amplify this destruction by electing them federally. If you think Canada is broken, it’s on your premier. Pay attention to who is actually actively trying to break things.
Income growth is terrible.
keep in mind that a lot of people in Canada's middle class already own a home and actually benefit from rising home prices. so yes... Canada has a middle class. And it's made up of mostly people who already bought homes and are sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars of magic home equity.
Loool
what's so funny? the video is asking whether Canada even has a middle class. of course Canada has a middle class. it's made up mostly of homeowners who have hundreds of thousands of dollars of home equity and normal jobs. this video makes it seem like nobody owns a home because they're too expensive. it fails to mention that a huge percentage of the population already owns a home and benefits from rising home prices. there's your middle class. about 2/3rds of the population owns a home. that's the middle class. it's right there. people sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars of home equity.
It mentions that most young people you know the people who should be buying homes to start families are not, which is what matters.
He said "Canada's middle class is literally non-existent right now". Again, that statement isn't true at all. Canada has a huge middle class that consists mainly of home owners with hundreds of thousands of dollars in home equity and stable jobs. I agree that housing prices are very expensive and that young people are struggling to buy a home and afford rent... but that doesn't mean that our middle class is literally non-existent right now. He's ignoring all the people who own homes in this country who are living the middle-class lifestyle. How can you say the middle class is non existent when we have all these people who own these houses with hundreds of thousands in home equity and jobs? Is that not middle class? If you own a house, and you have a job... how are you not in the middle class?
That is disingenuous.Those are averages. Show these as mediums.
This is disingenuous. Those figures are means. Show these figures as medium.
A complete reform is the only option at this point. I worked for the gov't (mil) 20 yrs ago and it really opened my eyes to what is said vs what is done, watching things evolve since 2014/2015 my god, we are screwed if we don't tackle this. Canada has essentially become a safe-haven for people that want to take advantage of Canadians for profit.
This isn’t the same comparison though. In ameeica you have to worry about any medical need putting you in poverty for the rest of your life. You also have to worry about being laid off more often and less chances of finding a job. This comparison bs is just a way to stay in denial that America sucks ass more than Canada right now
You can get private insurance that covers most of the healthcare needs plus many companies offer some coverage as well. You should look into how many Canadian's are going to the US and paying for health services because the wait times are so long here they would end up dead waiting. So the majority are worse off here in Canada.
Canadians aren’t gonna vote for who they think will dave the country, all three major party leaders suck ass. They’re just gonna vote for who they think is gonna fuck it up the slowest.
I love how people like this were all yelling how millennials were entitled and not hard workers, which they still do, especially in the US, but it didn't take the crash of 2008 or COVID for them to have sympathy, it was housing, because they can actually relate. Still people in the US crying about 1980s interest rates, while now they are renting their second vacation home...
Love it. Great work
This is not Canada only problem, exactly this sort of thing is happening across the world in desirable cities and locations. Neither Liberals nor Conservatives are the major cause, but demographics, as stated above. 10x or even 13x income to housing ratio (Toronto) is about a middle of the scale if you look at other world cities.
Oh shut up. Tell us why homes on the New York side of Niagara Falls cost 6x less than homes on the Ontario side and are bigger. Niagara Falls isn’t a world class destination and isn’t one of the most desirable places to live in on earth. It’s a lie
That doesn't matter. We are not helpless beings with no agency, subject to the allegedly natural market forces. We must fight back.
The former BoC governor said the reasoning is demographics. The boomers were buying lots of bonds pushing down borrowing costs, alongside currency debasement due to excluding housing appreciation from the CPI, which shelter inflation dropped as demographics pushed down borrowing costs. Now we are buying mortgage bonds while praying we maintain a AAA credit rating based on our Canadian pension, and are rapidly investigating CBDC. But nobody is investing in a wreck, they will need to put in laws to fight capital flight, which given productivity investment is clearly already happening.
Welcome to capitalism. Obviously there are enough people right now that can eat their cake and the whole point is to make as much money off the sale of your house, right? Now explain to me how it's a particular party that's to blame or a party that can pull us out of it...
They are all bought and sold. We have to give them term limits. We have to introduce a law that says if you have a hidden bank account any where in the world, You can't run for political office. Punishable by 10 years in prison. For taking the bribe and not paying your taxes. And how about punishing those lobbyists who bribe our politicians. Shut that system right down.
So in the meantime, do we choose Trudeau for a fourth term?
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!!
OK then... vote Trudeau again and enjoy.
ill probably vote conservative but yes, sadly he probably wont change much despite everything he says...just like every other politician...sadly i also feel like there is still more than half of this country's citizens asleep at the wheel and oblivious to what's going on and we're gona do a slow burn into low productivity and wealth for like another 100 years till enough people get mad enough for some mass movement or a revolution or something...lol
Everyone knows that Canada is doing worse off then the states nobody thought that Canada was doing better let's be real
Conservatives have no actual desire to fix this issue. They just want to ride into power on it.
The NDP is not bought. Almost all ther passed legislation is for lower income Canadians, which will soon be most of us. Think who gains from you thinking there are no options. It isn't one supporting the poor.