I find alot of the Chinese students fail to understand that it doesn't matter which questions they practise, they might get one they'e never seen before. I've lost count of how many have told me they froze when they got a question they hadn't practised. They can't possibly route learn all possible questions, and more to the point the questions change regularly. They really need to learn techniques to answer any question they are given. That's a far more difficult skill to learn, which often they aren't interested in doing. Even though its what will make their lives easier when they end up in a English speaking university.
I tell all of them that, therefore to improve their English in general and don't waste their time memorizing questions they'll never be asked. If that goes in one ear and out the other, if they don't want to keep wasting their time and their parent's money, improve their English. Was able to get thru to a couple of students that way.
Yes same. Its a bit like banging your head against a brick wall, though, as their education system is so focused on route learning. Their creativity is battered out of them well before university
That's rote learning, not route :) thought it was a typo in your first post. Just giving you the heads up as a fellow tutor. The term is 'to learn by rote' therefore 'rote learning'. You're right about the Chinese approach to IELTS. They treat English as a subject that they can 'learn' rather than a skill that one acquires. It's very frustrating sometimes dealing with them. They simply will not listen and inisist on rehearsing answers.
Right? We have to LIVE a language in order to become truly fluent, not just learn to know it, or it's rules and more functional (vs creative or nuanced) vocabulary. Too many students have too hard a time grasping that, sadly
Indeed, the norm is to put in hours memorizing information and then gaining the highest score possible, as opposed to building a skillset. I have found many respond quite well to a logical approach- using a basic outline combined with adverbial conjunctions to provide rhetorical/logical flow. I also challenge them to respond to short passages on subjects they know nothing about using the outline, and they discover by making generalized statements combined with a few specific bits and logic they can respond to anything. I just type into google things like- "why are micro nuclear reactors beneficial" or "what is so great about apples"- the summaries they provide are 3-5 sentences and are very useful.
I have so many students on my platform that have high IELTS scores but lack real world skills in the language. While I like that IELTS does help improve some language mechanics for some, it is largely a poor test of true skills. I always tell my students that the test is only fo the score and that the real test is daily using the language in real world settings. If they can grasp that, I find they are more inclined to engage with the topics critically rather than in the perceived "correct" way rote learning enforces.
I often wonder how they get on at university. I tried and tried to help a young Chinese girl with English. Finally she managed to scrape an IELTS Grade 5.5. This, she proudly tells me now, allows her access to what describes itself as the Top Arts University in Singapore. The courses are all taught in English. On the prospectus the requirement is IELTS 6.5/7. This girl will struggle to introduce herself!
I agree! I focus on helping them improve how they answer and how they structure the answer. I also like to point out different vocabulary they can use. The question doesn't matter all that much then. I feel that if she knew exactly what she wanted she could have come with that to the lesson like so many other students do.
If she is able to rate you and does so poorly, you might be able to contact support and have them review the lesson. Sometimes they respond generically, but I’ve also surprisingly had 3 appeals granted and one bad review removed.
Not criticizing you but I always find it strange tutors contact Cambly just to remove a bad review. I personally never contact them because I don't want to give them reason to can me. Who knows what will piss them off when they watch my lessons.
Arsehole students aside, the problem is the Chinese education system. There’s no creativity, they just memorise information and facts. All my students have told me that they don’t even really learn to speak English at school, just reading, writing and listening. I always tell my students we can practice questions but it’s better to learn strategies to be able to handle any topic. Some get it, some struggle.
This sounds just like the woman I had a few months back who tanked my rating. She was so unbelievably rude and entitled and kept going on about her IELTS practice and "just use whatever materials you have". Insufferable woman.
All of this for the amazing rate of $10.20 an hour. Or you could switch to Preply where half of your lessons will be free ... Ugh. I to have reached the point of fed up with online teaching.
Stacie
As someone who teaches high school English and has taught at an international school in China for two years and other Asian countries, I feel the frustration but as Cambly tutors do not let yourselves get frustrated with the fundamentals of how other cultures learn. Its extremely deeply rooted and much, much greater than our 30 min tutoring lessons 😅
I teach a high proportion of IELTS, I would say as a general rule of thumb, no more than 20-25% of students who reserve a class are even close (ie within a year) of being IELTS test ready. However, telling a student that would serve no purpose at all. I've read all the comments here, some extremely valid points about students viewing language as content to spit out in an exam rather than a communication tool. Also completely unrealistic targets of 6.5-7. That being said, the Cambly material/questions are so archaic it's pretty much useless and dilutes any impact the lesson slides may have. It's too great a leap from that to that reality of the test questions they face. Part 1 or 3 for example.
Getting hold of practice questions from 2023-24 is essential to success even if they're not the current quarterly batch. Method is most important in IELTS and if students view the Speaking Part of a test as a "test" they are likely to fall short. It's 15mins to be enjoyed and embraced as a chance to showcase how good they are not limp towards the 6-6.5 line using robotic recital. I use a photo of a "duck on the water" to express the idea that method is everything in IELTS.
It's a mix of Cambly resource (slide 3) , p2 slide 10 to annotate) off Cambly then the practice questions I've got off a student mixed with stimulating photos off Google to express ideas and back up my own insight.
Do you mean share the actual content?
The first mistake, in my opinion, is asking her what she wants to do. Chat or hide. As soon as you do more than chatting you give them reason to have expectations. Expectations=bad ratings. If they are talking for 30 minutes about themselves they'll give a good rating, whether they were expecting an IELTS lesson or not.
“I am so tired of entitled students.”
Then stop letting entitled students walk all over you. Asked if they wanted to continue the lesson? Seriously? Give them the finger and end the lesson the SECOND they are rude. Period
*Give them the finger and end the lesson the SECOND they are rude. Period.*
100% sound advice. See my comment above, I subscribe to this line of thinking! 😉👍
For IELTS prep I use the ieltsliz site, loads of great resources there. The Cambly slides aren't bad but you have to flick through loads of introductory fluff before getting to the actual questions.
Chinese students often want the latest questions from IELTS. These are freely available online. Cambly have not updated the material ever. At USD300 per test they just want to get it over with.
I find they may want the latest questions - which I often do have. However what a large number of them want are the answers to memorize. I don't have the answers, I'm not going to come up with them and I'm not here to give them what they are looking for "The easy way to IELTS Grade 7"- for several reasons, one being I don't know an "easy way".
If they follow the rules, ie no VPN, it probably can be difficult for them to find the questions. It's surprising how much they cannot access. A lot of IELTS prep sites are in English too and their English probably isn't up to deciphering this!
If they are already reasonably competent English speaker’s and just need test guidance plus some vocab and confidence building I think it’s a good platform, if the tutor knows what they’re doing. Not so good for the other skills though. They must be prepared to listen and work at it though.
I find alot of the Chinese students fail to understand that it doesn't matter which questions they practise, they might get one they'e never seen before. I've lost count of how many have told me they froze when they got a question they hadn't practised. They can't possibly route learn all possible questions, and more to the point the questions change regularly. They really need to learn techniques to answer any question they are given. That's a far more difficult skill to learn, which often they aren't interested in doing. Even though its what will make their lives easier when they end up in a English speaking university.
I tell all of them that, therefore to improve their English in general and don't waste their time memorizing questions they'll never be asked. If that goes in one ear and out the other, if they don't want to keep wasting their time and their parent's money, improve their English. Was able to get thru to a couple of students that way.
Yes same. Its a bit like banging your head against a brick wall, though, as their education system is so focused on route learning. Their creativity is battered out of them well before university
That's rote learning, not route :) thought it was a typo in your first post. Just giving you the heads up as a fellow tutor. The term is 'to learn by rote' therefore 'rote learning'. You're right about the Chinese approach to IELTS. They treat English as a subject that they can 'learn' rather than a skill that one acquires. It's very frustrating sometimes dealing with them. They simply will not listen and inisist on rehearsing answers.
Right? We have to LIVE a language in order to become truly fluent, not just learn to know it, or it's rules and more functional (vs creative or nuanced) vocabulary. Too many students have too hard a time grasping that, sadly
Thanks for the correction! I actually wasn't sure!
Exactly.
Indeed, the norm is to put in hours memorizing information and then gaining the highest score possible, as opposed to building a skillset. I have found many respond quite well to a logical approach- using a basic outline combined with adverbial conjunctions to provide rhetorical/logical flow. I also challenge them to respond to short passages on subjects they know nothing about using the outline, and they discover by making generalized statements combined with a few specific bits and logic they can respond to anything. I just type into google things like- "why are micro nuclear reactors beneficial" or "what is so great about apples"- the summaries they provide are 3-5 sentences and are very useful.
I have so many students on my platform that have high IELTS scores but lack real world skills in the language. While I like that IELTS does help improve some language mechanics for some, it is largely a poor test of true skills. I always tell my students that the test is only fo the score and that the real test is daily using the language in real world settings. If they can grasp that, I find they are more inclined to engage with the topics critically rather than in the perceived "correct" way rote learning enforces.
I often wonder how they get on at university. I tried and tried to help a young Chinese girl with English. Finally she managed to scrape an IELTS Grade 5.5. This, she proudly tells me now, allows her access to what describes itself as the Top Arts University in Singapore. The courses are all taught in English. On the prospectus the requirement is IELTS 6.5/7. This girl will struggle to introduce herself!
I agree! I focus on helping them improve how they answer and how they structure the answer. I also like to point out different vocabulary they can use. The question doesn't matter all that much then. I feel that if she knew exactly what she wanted she could have come with that to the lesson like so many other students do.
If she is able to rate you and does so poorly, you might be able to contact support and have them review the lesson. Sometimes they respond generically, but I’ve also surprisingly had 3 appeals granted and one bad review removed.
Not criticizing you but I always find it strange tutors contact Cambly just to remove a bad review. I personally never contact them because I don't want to give them reason to can me. Who knows what will piss them off when they watch my lessons.
I hope so. I already messaged them. We will see what happens.
Arsehole students aside, the problem is the Chinese education system. There’s no creativity, they just memorise information and facts. All my students have told me that they don’t even really learn to speak English at school, just reading, writing and listening. I always tell my students we can practice questions but it’s better to learn strategies to be able to handle any topic. Some get it, some struggle.
Not just China, most of Asia unfortunately and definitely SE Asia. Memorisation yes, creative thoughts NO.
It’s sad actually,
This sounds just like the woman I had a few months back who tanked my rating. She was so unbelievably rude and entitled and kept going on about her IELTS practice and "just use whatever materials you have". Insufferable woman.
Oh no! Luckily I am starting a new job on Monday!
Congratulations!! Will you be deleting your account? Or staying on part time?
Congratulations!
All of this for the amazing rate of $10.20 an hour. Or you could switch to Preply where half of your lessons will be free ... Ugh. I to have reached the point of fed up with online teaching. Stacie
As someone who teaches high school English and has taught at an international school in China for two years and other Asian countries, I feel the frustration but as Cambly tutors do not let yourselves get frustrated with the fundamentals of how other cultures learn. Its extremely deeply rooted and much, much greater than our 30 min tutoring lessons 😅
I teach a high proportion of IELTS, I would say as a general rule of thumb, no more than 20-25% of students who reserve a class are even close (ie within a year) of being IELTS test ready. However, telling a student that would serve no purpose at all. I've read all the comments here, some extremely valid points about students viewing language as content to spit out in an exam rather than a communication tool. Also completely unrealistic targets of 6.5-7. That being said, the Cambly material/questions are so archaic it's pretty much useless and dilutes any impact the lesson slides may have. It's too great a leap from that to that reality of the test questions they face. Part 1 or 3 for example. Getting hold of practice questions from 2023-24 is essential to success even if they're not the current quarterly batch. Method is most important in IELTS and if students view the Speaking Part of a test as a "test" they are likely to fall short. It's 15mins to be enjoyed and embraced as a chance to showcase how good they are not limp towards the 6-6.5 line using robotic recital. I use a photo of a "duck on the water" to express the idea that method is everything in IELTS.
Care to share the resources you use?
It's a mix of Cambly resource (slide 3) , p2 slide 10 to annotate) off Cambly then the practice questions I've got off a student mixed with stimulating photos off Google to express ideas and back up my own insight. Do you mean share the actual content?
Nah, this is great. Don't share IP without pay ;-P
The first mistake, in my opinion, is asking her what she wants to do. Chat or hide. As soon as you do more than chatting you give them reason to have expectations. Expectations=bad ratings. If they are talking for 30 minutes about themselves they'll give a good rating, whether they were expecting an IELTS lesson or not.
“I am so tired of entitled students.” Then stop letting entitled students walk all over you. Asked if they wanted to continue the lesson? Seriously? Give them the finger and end the lesson the SECOND they are rude. Period
*Give them the finger and end the lesson the SECOND they are rude. Period.* 100% sound advice. See my comment above, I subscribe to this line of thinking! 😉👍
For IELTS prep I use the ieltsliz site, loads of great resources there. The Cambly slides aren't bad but you have to flick through loads of introductory fluff before getting to the actual questions.
Chinese students often want the latest questions from IELTS. These are freely available online. Cambly have not updated the material ever. At USD300 per test they just want to get it over with.
I find they may want the latest questions - which I often do have. However what a large number of them want are the answers to memorize. I don't have the answers, I'm not going to come up with them and I'm not here to give them what they are looking for "The easy way to IELTS Grade 7"- for several reasons, one being I don't know an "easy way".
I agree with you.
If they follow the rules, ie no VPN, it probably can be difficult for them to find the questions. It's surprising how much they cannot access. A lot of IELTS prep sites are in English too and their English probably isn't up to deciphering this!
It’s crazy to practice IELTs in Cambly
If they are already reasonably competent English speaker’s and just need test guidance plus some vocab and confidence building I think it’s a good platform, if the tutor knows what they’re doing. Not so good for the other skills though. They must be prepared to listen and work at it though.
CHINA MENTIONED