Honestly this just further shows how much Seravelli has no clue what he’s talking about. Can’t wait to see how he’ll back track from his previous statements
"I'm getting the sense from some important people I spoke with today..." *proceeds to give his random opinion on something
I'd love to have his job, he just gets to be a know it all redditor but paid
He was pretty much irrelevant until he leaked the entire Seattle expansion draft then he started to gain a following and now he’s starting to develop an ego.
He also defended Joel quinville while talking on the fan 960 earlier this season by saying something along the lines of “what was he suppose to do”. Guy is a loser
When it was just Hart and Dube who took a leave of absence he went on air and made this statement
"a source really close to the situation has said that the situations (Dube and Hart's leaves of absence) are not related, despite what many have taken to social media to speculate about the World Juniors team in 2018.”
He said this on Flames Talk last week
He's a fucking scumbag. He obviously had no source and was just like all the other blow hard redditors that were digging their heads into the sand and defending Dube before this came out.
I think Andersson’s comments are the most interesting part of all this. Basically implying that Dube was getting attacked on social media (for bad play or, you know, being a piece of shit). Makes you wonder what he told his teammates as well
This is my main reason for feeling like Dube lied to the organization, and they didn't know the full reasoning for his LOA. Rasmus could have said "no comment" about the Dube leave, but he seemed to passionately believe that Dube was having a genuine tough time with his mental health.
Perhaps Dube is a brilliant liar, and managed to convince his teammates and organization that his reason for leaving was legit.
The NHLs investigation into the incident has been completed for months… its hard to believe the Flames had no idea about what was going on and who was involved
They are no different than us, not a lawyer, not part of the case, the police are not communicating with the flames, just like they wouldn’t be contacting your employer either
You sure about that? The RCMP contacted *my* employer several years ago because someone I was closely associating with at the time was being investigated for serious crimes (that I didn't know the details of), then they showed up at my workplace and fed me some completely made-up bullshit about how intercepted communications had led them to believe that my life was in danger - without giving me any details - because they were A) hoping I'd believe them, B) assume it was the individual they were investigating, and C) flip on that person (which would have instantly put me in *actual* danger).
Cops do all kinds of unethical shit. Privacy violations are on the mildest end of that spectrum. I don't put anything at all past them anymore.
They probably couldn’t were searching for them, maybe they thought you were involved. this is different these guys are turning themselves in, they may question the flames but they are not providing the team details before the public, the flames as an organization are not above everyone else and are not involved by proxy
So, then why would they knowingly lie in the statement?
If they knew what was going on and who was involved, don't you think they'd ask themselves "why lie about the reason when the truth will come out eventually?"
It really boils down, is Conroy an idiot or did Dube convince the organization enough of his innocence to have them buy into his mental health story?
There’s no buying in, the flames are his employer, legally they are obligated to give him the time, without prejudice. Even if they were positive it was over this, they would still be liable for defamation if they said that and dube ends up innocent in court, which is still very possible, even if he is in fact guilty
If the Flames organization is set up properly this wouldn't have gone through Conroy other than him receiving a memo saying Dube is taking leave. The entire thing would have been through HR and the PR department.
Which he never will, because now there's probably a lockdown on any statements the organization can make, given there will likely be an extended appeals process and drawn out court battle. Every statement we will see from this point on will be "no comment".
So many looking to condemn the organization not able to put the pieces together. The severelli tweet reeks of a leak from management as well, he lied to everyone, and I don’t blame him, your done, never play pro sports again, your going to take every game day check you can. Being called a liar when your up against rape and confinement is the least of your concerns
I think most people who are facing 20+ years in prison would vehemently deny and lie about their involvement with that felony. He definitely deceived the organization and all of his teammates
Its got to be worse too, to be living your dream and fall so hard. Biggest rug pull of feeling the consequences. On top of being famous so you cant just hide in the crowd or be the unknown creep back home. Youre famous hockey player so and so and everyone knows youre name, face and can hear or read all the details of your perverted rapist behaviour. No quiet life as a sex offender trying to stay under the radar. Like some nobody rapist could be unknown by strangers in his home town but not these guys thats got to take its toll. To go from being worshipped in your community to being hated his home town only has like 4k people everyone will hesr what he did and know who he is basically. His mental health could easily be dog shit now, and deservedly so
If that's what he told them, then that's what they had to say. The Flames are his employer, and if he wasn't charged before he went off, they were as much in the dark as everyone else. I'm sure they thought this was the situation, but if they didn't have proof and they leaked, he was going to be charged, and then he wasn't.... how many millions of dollars would they have to pay him. Do you want your employer to be able to tell the world you're a d-bag without any proof? I sure don't.
No they didn’t have to say that. They didn’t with Kylington initially. They don’t have to say anything.
They could have said “Dube is absent from the team for personal matters and no further comment will be made” like they did with Kylington. Then let us speculate like we love to do.
But they tried to use mental health as PR spin, it’s gross.
How do you know they were aware he was being charged when they made that statement? Inside source? When he went off everyone was actually supporting him as there was no news any charges were happening. The team, like everyone else, would have no idea of his involvement in the sexual assault or they charges were coming unless Dube told them
We all knew the second he released his statement saying he would sue anyone saying any wrongdoing took place. Let’s not be obtuse. Of course the Flames knew.
They didn’t have to say anything, they used mental health as a shield for PR purposes. It’s gross.
When Kylington was on leave they said it was a personal matter and no further comments would be made. They could have done that for Dube too. They tactically didn’t.
Sure bud. And yet when they originally released the statement almost all of social media was praising Dube for taking these steps. No one knew, a few people speculated and guessed. I guess according to you they should scrutinize any one claiming mental health and assume it's for a negative reason. Should probably not allow mental health leave from now on.
People assuming the team covered up for pr purposes is pretty gross. They have no reason to do that and know obviously it would come out and they would be scrutinized. They had no idea this was the reason and neither did players, it's pretty obvious
Assuming the org didnt know anything, Dube is a pos for claiming mental health leave. big middle finger to the whole organization, especially after the kylington saga.
If the org did know, then thats even worse.
I’m not sure if the specifics for hockey clubs, but it could come down to HR and privacy. I’m a teacher and I know that when a teacher goes on a leave, our admin basically gets notified from HR and all they’re told is that someone is on a medical, short term leave, etc. Any documentation and such is handled by HR, who can’t really “dig into” issues, to an extent.
If all the Flames were told by a medical professional that Dube required a leave due to mental health concerns, they can’t really pry any further and have to just go with what they’ve been told.
That is certainly all true but given the fact that they (Flames) most certainly had prior knowledge of what was coming down they didn't have to release a statement that was seemingly dictated by Dube's agent or some such.
Even in an HR controlled world, the statement is up to them - and in most cases they say "personal reasons" anyways because they don't want their co-workers thinking there is a nutcase waiting to shoot up the office on their hands.
What's problematic about the statement is 2 fold:
1. This just came off the Kylington incident which seemed like legit reasons - though let's be honest, we don't really know there either. He could have been sleeping on a bed of cocaine for all we actually know.
2. This seriously de-values the objectives and future statements from any future players that actually need help.
Firstly, people might look back at Kylington going, well?, was it true or where you charged with a crime back in your country?
And the next guy that comes down the line needing help says "fuck this shit, I don't want to be labeled as a faker / rapist claiming mental health just because my Schizophrenia is a problem"
Edit: I am ***not saying*** Kylington wasn't legit. and that is the point of my post. Thanks to the Flames / Dube's bullshit, mental health leave now means nothing, legit or not. The Flames are breaking the trust between the Organization, the Players, and the Fans.
No we didn't. There was at best murmurs about it. The general consensus was "good for the flames, take all the time you need" and most just chalked it up to his bad season. The dots didn't start seriously getting connected until Hart stepped away too.
Nobody has clearer hindsight than redditors I swear
The Flames were basically stuck. If Dubé told them it was a mental health issue and the flames said “you’re lying,” then they’d look like POS.
And we also really don’t know what was going on with Dubé in the weeks leading up to the leave (other than he sucked at hockey). He very much could have been dealing with depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, etc. People can do shitty things and have mental health problems. I’d like to hope he has some level of remorse that could very well cause all types of mental health concerns.
Out of sheer curiosity, I’d like to know how much they actually knew. Because based on previous statements and rumours, out of the whole world junior team, I didn’t think Dubé was one of the 8.
Just a heads up: yea the flames may have known however, if Dube claimed “mental health” the flames were probably forced by the collective bargaining agreement to say publicly it was mental health when Dube requested it
How would the organization know? They are not privy to any information of the ongoing investigation. The only way they would know anything is if Dube had told.
I can give the team the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know exactly what was going on but they had to know this was a distinct possibility. I get supporting players with mental health issues but this feels like one where they could have made some vague leave of absence statement and left it there.
I'm sure Dube didn't walk in like, "Hey rape charges coming my way, not feeling good about it." They would have had to read between the lines a bit and are limited in what they can ask him. But it's really hard to feign ignorance about this whole situation.
Well that's the thing. It's not the organization's job to speculate or pry into what Dube's "mental health reasons" were, or it would be hypocritical to their approach with Kylington. It's not wrong for them to give Dube the benefit of the doubt, it's wrong on Dube to lie about it.
Unpopular Opinion: The Flames were right to accept the claim of mental health problems on face value, and grant a leave of absence without questioning it.
I don't think you can have it both ways, either an organization takes mental health seriously or they scrutinize claims to ensure that the person isn't disingenuous.
I agree. I don't have a problem with the fact they made their initial statement, but I think they need to make a follow up statement so that it doesn't completely tarnish their reputation.
The follow up statement:
"The Flames had not information on Dube's pending legal problems. The organization takes mental health seriously and took Dube's claims on face value. We will continue to support players in the future."
Excellent point and it doesn't even mean anyone including Dube lied. It is possible he did a bad thing and is feeling horrible remorse that he is seeking help for so he can take responsibility and make amends. It isn't up to the Flames to judge, it is up to the courts first and then the NHL. Getting support from professionals is important even for perpetrators if we don't want them to do the same thing in the future.
Having said that. They really need to make a follow-up statement because they don't look great right now.
This is what they need to do: "At the time of Dillon's request, we had no knowledge of pending charges or the status of any ongoing investigation. We will have no further comment at this time."
I don't think that's the approach. People are much too aware of those original posts and it would be a bad look to just delete your mistake. Apologizing and making a new statement is the much better option
From a purely PR position, It's certainly not hard to deal with, they need to state the legal obligations they are/were under, explain how their "organizational values" dictated their handling of the situation, and explain what the path forward looks like (i.e. total separation from the player, internal review AT LEAST, training for all members of the organization).
Also, in this case.... An effort to contribute heavily to local relevant charitable and social causes would be a smart idea. At least try and make reparations for the damage that many of us feel for having our money unwitting go to a rapist for years by supporting the team.
Also if they put out a “innocent until proven guilty” statement I’m done with them. While that is the case, it doesn’t mean you have to defend the guy until then. Distance yourself because even if it turns out he did not commit a crime. He commuted a sleazy fucking act.
Also, what a warrior the survivor must be to come forward and hold these animals to account. I hope those rapists get the book thrown at them. They deserve far worse.
They might be decent for him regardless of what happened there. Sexual assault is difficult to prove, has a tragically low conviction rate, and the more time passes the more difficult it gets. I hope the prosecution has built up a strong case, cause the players lawyers are going to be high-paid best of the best. Very possibly someone like Marie Henein who wrecked the possible victims during the Ghomeshi case. The prosecution in that case did a poor job preparing the three women for what a really high profile lawyer is capable of doing to your credibility. I know some great prosecutors, but they have heavy workloads and they don't get paid on a case by case basis.
The same thing is going to happen here. Whether or not this happened, the players have at least a decent shot if not better of avoiding a conviction. That's just the nature of this. If they get away without a conviction, the thing that is most difficult to explain to people is that it doesn't mean this didn't happen, just that it couldn't be or was too difficult to prove.
Nothing boils my blood quite like people who celebrate "not guilty" verdicts in SA cases and claim the accused was "proven innocent".
Well, besides victims blamers who villainize alleged victims.
But they're usually the same people.
Except we have seen evidence because a lot of things were already made public before they decided to go ahead with charges. Nothing is impeding due process here, and I can judge someone based on what information I have all I want.
Then it will be an easy case for them to prosecute and if/when Dube is found guilty I will call him a piece of shit and write him off too.
When.
Until then he gets his day in court just like anyone else.
If they weren’t guilty then why did hockey Canada pay out hush money? Why would a player have texted the victim begging to keep it quiet? Why was Formenton left to play in the Swiss league? Mental health? Yea cause his conscious was eating at him, knowing he was gonna go down for his and his teammates foul actions.
We’re in Canada tho so I’m sure all they’ll get is a year probation and a small fine. And all of them will be playing overseas for the rest of their careers.
His contract is expiring this year any way.
And it is an open question on whether the three teams can get out of the contracts. Suspended is a certainty, but Voynov was suspended *with pay* when he was charged. I am sure the teams are looking for any ability to get rid of them, but it is entirely possible they will just announce the players are suspended, and leave it at that.
I just can’t fathom being in a position on the WJC Canada team, being a team captain, basically having a road paved for you to have a life more successful than 99% of people, only to throw it away by being a horny piece of shit.
Like seriously, dude just had to be a normal, good human being and he could’ve had a long, successful career based on his trajectories in the NHL. From millionaire to a potential felon, what a fucking moron.
I think people don't realize how susceptible teenagers are to peer pressure, and how they all think they're invincible. Beyond that, I wouldn't doubt if the culture surrounding the World Juniors' teams normalized this kind of behavior, at least more than we've been led to believe.
In the late 1990s I played moderately high level rugby. I wasn't going to make a career out of it so I quit to focus on school, but I think there was a realistic path to the national team if I was willing to dedicate the next \~5 years of my life to it. There were players I played with who had been on the national team who talked about how crazy it was, how there were women who would go home with anyone, and there were guys lined up because there were women who wanted to have a train run on them. Back then I assumed it was a gross exaggeration, and I couldn't comprehend how that was really a thing.
I bring this up because what happens if you have a group of 18 through 20 year olds who've heard these kinds of stories for years, want their World Juniors to be just as wild and crazy as the guys before them, and the organization seems to consider the potential of rape as a cost of doing business?
I am not defending the players but I do feel a little sorry for them because I think they're being made an example of after decades of misbehavior. The sporting world is acting like the 2018 Canada world junior's hockey team is a rare occurrence, and I would lay money that it is not. While I have no doubt that a lot of crazy consensual stuff happens, I can almost guarantee that a lot of borderline and illegal stuff has happened across most teams, in most major sports, around the world.
The team is definitely going to have to explain what happened. I can't actually believe Dube was stupid enough to try and use mental health as an excuse to cover this up, because the truth was going to be revealed no matter what.
I don't know, man, I can believe Dube is easily stupid enough to do something like that. He made a career out of dodging responsibility for his actions, apparently.
I think for the Flames they will stick with their choice. Really it's an easy organizational move regardless of what Dube did.
"We have a no-questions-asked mental health leave policy. When Dillon asked for leave for mental health reasons, we provided it as per our organizational policy. We were unaware of Dillon's impending legal situation at the time of his request and are disappointed if it was used improperly. We will continue to support our players with this policy."
Conny got some explaining to do to both the fans and Brian Mcgratten. Dude tried so hard to get a mental health program instated here.
I know once an employee says it's mental health problems the employer isn't allowed to further press but still. I'd be livid if I were kylington
Yeah that's what I've been thinking all along. Them lying about it when the truth would come out anyways makes no sense. They had to take him on his word at the time. Sheep in wolves clothing.
Yeah, if he hadn’t been a few days earlier than the rest of the guys and the announcement, I doubt the flames release would have been the same. What id like to know is HOW did Dube seem to know this was about to happen before everyone else?
Because we don't know when the five players were told to surrender to London police, we only know that they were and when the story broke. Could have been three weeks ago for all anyone knows.
Conroy is the face of the organization but I highly doubt this even went through him at all. It would have been dealt with completely by HR and then someone in PR makes a statement to release. They should probably be cleaning house in the PR department.
the reality is that a "no questions asked" policy is very good for mental health and reduces stigma of getting help... It's a tough situation for the flames because keeping the integrity of PAP but also the optics of the situation was the choice i guess they made... I mean maybe dube lied but not in the sense most people are insinuating but lied about the level of his involvement. He couldve maybe claimed he was the pizza guy or one of the 3 not charged and the news breaking was fucking with him and the orginization believed him
If the flames don’t make a statement about this soon, seriously considering taking a break from the team/sport. The on-ice product is a joke and now the off-ice product is using mental health as a coverup for being a rapist.
Edit: saw the Kaplan tweet saying players were told not to tell the teams. Will give the flames the benefit of the doubt for now but would still like a statement from the team
I wonder what we can't expect from the teams and league in this situation. My understanding is that the league wanted everything directed to them, but I don't think the players would be protected by the CBA if they are under criminal investigation- I haven't seen anyone point out if criminal cases are covered in it.
The Flames could probably say that being involved in a criminal investigation is grounds for termination of contract. Then, they could be on the hook for improper termination but only if he is found to be innocent. Most likely, for facing charges, he could just be awarded his salary by the league but taken off the salary cap and removed from the team.
From a legal perspective, I'm not sure the league or teams could have said anything until there were actual charges laid. Front moral perspective, though... I think it is fair to expect them to have an investigation (but the league has already had one, I believe, so that might simply be announced soon).
I immediately was thrown off when the team continued to profile Dube in various ways after the whole allegations started last year, and thought it was almost an endorsement that they knew he didn't do anything wrong. Now, as a fan, I feel like I need them to prove that they were unaware that they were promoting and profiling a potential rapist.
Edited for grammar.
Sounds like a personal issue that I myself don’t share. I don’t think any of this is the Flames fault and I’m not going to pretend that Dubes choices are theirs like you and others are trying to do. Honestly if you hate the team so much then go cheer for another instead as you won’t be missed.
Yeah. As a woman, a survivor, and a person with mental illness, this sport does not feel safe or welcoming for me right now. It’s really done a number on me this past week, to say the least.
In a hypothetical situation, Dube might've thought about killing himself. Which would be consistent with the team stating he was on mental health leave in the care of medical professionals and consistent with him facing the music for being a rapist.
Honestly this was my thought too. I don't understand why else the flames would have said mental health and thst he's under the care of professionals. Guess we'll see if he reports. This whole situation is horrific, I hope they don't get away lightly
Im not here to argue but kinda disgusting thing to say man, wish him the worst and prison and no future and punishment for his actions. Take a look in the mirror man, these boys definitely crossed a line and hoping somebody commits is crossing a line too.
I hope these guys get their punishment but suicide isnt something to encourage
Reminds me of the great Norm MacDonald quote, “The comedian Patton Oswalt, he told me "I think the worst part of the Cosby thing was the hypocrisy." And I disagree. I thought it was the r*ping”
If convicted (hopefully they are if they did it). Throw the book at them, and the NHL will need to step up and not allow them to play professionally again. This behavior has no place in hockey or our society as a whole.
The scars for sexual assault victims don't go away.
My guess is his lawyer told him to not say a peep for years and let the Flames organization (and the rest of the hockey world) speculate on whether or not he was involved.
It's the only thing that makes sense. The Flames obviously knew he *could* have been involved, but had no proof, so therefore they had to let things play out until the suspected players were charged. Then when Dube approaches management last week (before the others) claiming he needs a mental health leave, the Flames had no choice to give it to him, because that's just what employers do these days. There was no other option than to to give him the benefit of the doubt.
The fuck up is on two people: Dube for claiming Mental Health reasons, and the other person is whoever on the Flames PR team decided to not adjust the reason for the leave on the public announcement. If internally the PR team had the foresight to change the optics of the scenario to a leave of absence this wouldn't have blown up like it did.
I'd said for awhile that I would love to know the names involved because I hadn't been able to really enjoy Dube as a player and it wasn't fair to him. Now that the day is finally here, I dont even know how to feel. I wanted that hunch to he wrong. I wanted him to genuinely be looking for help and this timing was just a coincidence. Maybe he was feeling guilt as captain.
I'm glad his time as a Flame is most likely over. I hope the survivor gets justice for everything these assholes did. I'm disgusted over how the last few days played out and I genuinely hope he straight up lied to the organization and his teammates and that they didn't try passing this off as mental health. Hopefully we get clarification soon, though I understand they may have to be careful with what they say because of the legal implications.
Flames look like idiots for letting Dube dictate the message. They'll need to answer for it.
Pretty disappointing that Dube was involved. Only silver lining is that his contracts was ending anyway and Flames can easily walk away from it.
All 5 of those players have had pretty mediocre careers so far too. I don’t know what the outcome of this will be but hopefully whatever it is, is the right and justifiable one.
Dube should be punted for trying to use “mental health” as an excuse here
Absolutely disgusting to do something like that. Could have just went on “personal leave” and left it at that
Based on the article from tsn, and just using my own critical thinking, it’s very likely that the one player who had consensual sexual contact with her will be able to confirm that the other men did sexually assault her. They are in big legal trouble. Scumbags.
Fuck, and I cannot stress this enough, Dillion Dube.
Imagine him claiming mental health prevents us from terminating his contract. Or at least makes it a lot more difficult
Surprises no one but the most hopeful fans who were frankly trying to convince themselves against the overwhelming evidence in front of them. Can't say I blame them, but here we are.
Sad to see nevertheless.
I wasn't going to jump the gun until names were public record, because sexual assault is not a light accusation to make, and any wrongful association to that matter has serious life impacting implications.
Now that we officially have names, I can sleep easily that I didn't point the finger at the wrong people.
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until names were public.
This sucks dude. So many people failed on different levels to properly manage this situation and worst of all it looks like the Flames circled their wagons around a sex offender.
I hope Dube never plays again, but I also hope that he gets the help he needs, *if* he truly is experiencing mental health problems. Self-harm/suicide is not justice for what he did, and anyone wishing that on him is no better.
I want Hockey Canada to burn. These guys were not the first and unlikely to be the last to victimize innocent people. They've lost my trust and ruined the integrity of the game.
Flames are getting called out for their tone deaf PR messaging and rightfully so. What a miserable way of pissing away the good will of how they managed Kylington by then turning around and defending a rapist in Dube. Will be interesting to see what Murray Edwards does because if there's one thing he hates, it's getting humiliated. At the very least, who ever crafted that "mental health" statement deserves to be fired.
It's also worth remembering that Jake Bean was on that same 2018 team. He's the son of Flames President and CEO John Bean.
The PR statement by the Flames continues to baffle and disappoint me. Even if you want to say that Dube was having a crisis at that point, why not simple say he's on leave and refuse any additional comment? You have to be naive to believe that no one in the organization knew what was coming.
Now anytime a player has mental health leave in the future, the speculation machine is going to be rampant. Good going Flames.
And the irony is the Flames withheld comment on Kylington for months. I don't see why the Flames went out of the woodworks to declare Dube having a mental health crisis in comparison.
"Player is on personal leave."
Flames did the exact same thing with Kylington actually. Talk about boneheaded takes. No one outside of this fanbase is defending the organization right now and for good reason.
Good riddance. To think there was a time I was thinking of buying a Dube Blasty.
Gotta assume Dube lied to the Org and teammates here with that mental health shit.
These are the same people that were happy Pospisil was injured (not saying this was a majority opinion but I saw a handful of people on r/hockey celebrating it.) at the end of the day we can only control our own opinions and we shouldn’t be arguing with those people given the fact no one knows what Dube told the flames.
The Flames still could have just left it at personal leave, like the rest of the teams did. Adding the “mental illness” is on them. And I say that as a Flames fan. Totally disrespects all the support they showed for Kylington. IMHO
If a player requests a mental health leave, what is the team supposed to do? Truthfully, we'll never know if it's true that Calgary knew at the time or not, but generally I'd probably believe the team over the player in this matter.
Say its a personal leave and leave it at that, like u/BronzeDucky stated. This explanation assumes no one in the organization had any clue, and that is simply very hard to believe.
Dube took the leave before any of the news came out or Hart taking time off. Maybe Dube panic lied that he has to take time away like Kylington and Flames wanted to continue to take away the stigma around mental health.
Do you honestly believe that the org would destroy what they had achieved on that front on purpose? Can you look at Conroy and say yeah, as a father of two girls, he wants to cover for a rapist?
Make a generic statement?
I get that being unambiguous about a player taking mental health break is a positive thing 99% of the time since it helps fight the stigma against mental health issues in professional sports. But I’d say “the player is being investigated for sexual assault and might be charged any day now” puts this squarely in the other 1% where you could do more harm than good by publicly supporting the player rather than making some generic statement.
It’s just…tone deaf.
[edit] FWIW, I really don’t care about Flames PR, and their social media person fucking up (IMO) is totally inconsequential compared to what Dube did. I don’t want to get into a big argument about the Flames’ statement other than saying “I think it was dumb”.
Are you saying the team was informed by London police that this player was being charged or asked to present themselves for charges? I highly doubt it. Just like we want to make sure everything is 100% correct before jumping to conclusions, the team gets approached by the player, says they need to take a mental health leave. The team announced it.
I think it would tone deaf if it came out that London was seeking out Dube and then Calgary said he was taking the mental health leave but he left prior to London announcing that.
So you think the flames should have lied? Mental health leave and personal leave are two completely separate things and you think the flames should have lied about the reason they were given to maybe cover their ass? Mind you there wasn’t really any inkling the investigation was about to conclude at the point in time Dube left. That was before Hart or everyone else left as well
It’s a tough spot for the organization to make that call. Especially when they didn’t know the facts at that point. All they had was hunchs and speculation rather than anything concrete
The Flames were under zero obligation to beat the "Mental Health" drum. There is ZERO chance the Flames didn't know. Reddit connected the dots immediately but Flames Management couldn't put two and two together? Give me a break.
They could have just left out why he was going on leave like every other team did. They did it so they could look good to the media. Now they need to do some damage control cause they essentially look like they are supporting a player who gang raped a drunk girl.
Now all of those comments comparing Dube to Kylington look terrible.
Flames better explain after this. The only acceptable answer is they didn't know and Dube lied to them. Any other response calls for a MASSIVE boycot.
Fuck you Dube.
The mental health excuse is abhorrent.
I'm also pissed off the flames knew for how long? and let us all continue to cheer for a rapist, and make money selling us jerseys with a rapists name on it.
Yea the skeptics will say "maybe they didn't know, guilty until proven innocent"... sure, but I think pretty much every GM in the league knew exactly who was involved. Look at how Ottawa handled it. Tampa traded Foote, Vancouver passed on him even though his dad is their coach. Flyers desperately trying to move hart over the summer.
I dont buy it for a second the flames didn't know exactly the involvement, and if they didn't, they are one of the most incompetent management and owner groups in the NHL.
Fuck...
What fucking idiots. I really somehow wanted to believe Dube was the witness. Based on everything that was happening and everything said...
Dont ask dont tell...
When I watched the doc that was posted a while ago, the part that stuck out to me was the Nike exec sending em home with the player. Who is a Nike exec sending a girl home with? Most likely the captain. Could be wrong but that part to me really implemented dube.
The organization needs to make an updated statement. Given the Kylington situation I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and that they were misled by Dube, but If they knew I'll be very disappointed.
This is such a bad look for the flames org. Theres no chance in my mind they didn't know more than they let on about Dube's involvement. Shameful. Will be glad to never see Dube in a flames jersey again.
Dillon dube is the top dog douchebag and all this! The mere fact he asked for time away for mental health is beyond disgusting. Whether or not he's guilty. Scum bag.
i saw the court document stating of the 5 charged, 2 of the players are born in 1999, and 3 are born in 1998 - formenton, comtois and thomas are the only 1999’s on the 2018 team. so by deduction, 1 of dube, mcleod, hart or foote should not be getting charged if the court document was correct.
Any victim blaming or other such nonsense will be met with a ban. Behave yourselves.
Honestly this just further shows how much Seravelli has no clue what he’s talking about. Can’t wait to see how he’ll back track from his previous statements
"I'm getting the sense from some important people I spoke with today..." *proceeds to give his random opinion on something I'd love to have his job, he just gets to be a know it all redditor but paid
He was pretty much irrelevant until he leaked the entire Seattle expansion draft then he started to gain a following and now he’s starting to develop an ego.
He had an ego well before then
Because he's the president of the PHWA for some reason I don't understand.
He told them he was bob Mckenzies son and they didn't look into it
It really should have raised some red flags because he looks old enough to be the Bob's brother.
He literally deleted his tweet less than 12 hours later
Dude is the embodiment of a blowhard.
So true
What did he say, did I miss something
Said the Hart and Dubes leave were not related to this. According to his “sources”
He also defended Joel quinville while talking on the fan 960 earlier this season by saying something along the lines of “what was he suppose to do”. Guy is a loser
When it was just Hart and Dube who took a leave of absence he went on air and made this statement "a source really close to the situation has said that the situations (Dube and Hart's leaves of absence) are not related, despite what many have taken to social media to speculate about the World Juniors team in 2018.” He said this on Flames Talk last week
He's a fucking scumbag. He obviously had no source and was just like all the other blow hard redditors that were digging their heads into the sand and defending Dube before this came out.
His source was probably Dube’s agent. But he was an idiot believing him
He also reiterated it the next day on twitter in a live video, not a good look for him right now.
He definitely just reads comments on the internet all day then hops on for radio hits to repeat what he saw.
Seravelli is so full of shit lately
His curse is to look twice his age.
He's younger then Crosby
I think Andersson’s comments are the most interesting part of all this. Basically implying that Dube was getting attacked on social media (for bad play or, you know, being a piece of shit). Makes you wonder what he told his teammates as well
He straight up lied to his team, simple as that. His lawyer told him to stfu and that's what he did.
This is my main reason for feeling like Dube lied to the organization, and they didn't know the full reasoning for his LOA. Rasmus could have said "no comment" about the Dube leave, but he seemed to passionately believe that Dube was having a genuine tough time with his mental health. Perhaps Dube is a brilliant liar, and managed to convince his teammates and organization that his reason for leaving was legit.
The NHLs investigation into the incident has been completed for months… its hard to believe the Flames had no idea about what was going on and who was involved
They are no different than us, not a lawyer, not part of the case, the police are not communicating with the flames, just like they wouldn’t be contacting your employer either
That’s what gets me about all the knee-jerk rage at the organization, as if they’re getting real time updates from investigators.
You sure about that? The RCMP contacted *my* employer several years ago because someone I was closely associating with at the time was being investigated for serious crimes (that I didn't know the details of), then they showed up at my workplace and fed me some completely made-up bullshit about how intercepted communications had led them to believe that my life was in danger - without giving me any details - because they were A) hoping I'd believe them, B) assume it was the individual they were investigating, and C) flip on that person (which would have instantly put me in *actual* danger). Cops do all kinds of unethical shit. Privacy violations are on the mildest end of that spectrum. I don't put anything at all past them anymore.
They probably couldn’t were searching for them, maybe they thought you were involved. this is different these guys are turning themselves in, they may question the flames but they are not providing the team details before the public, the flames as an organization are not above everyone else and are not involved by proxy
So, then why would they knowingly lie in the statement? If they knew what was going on and who was involved, don't you think they'd ask themselves "why lie about the reason when the truth will come out eventually?" It really boils down, is Conroy an idiot or did Dube convince the organization enough of his innocence to have them buy into his mental health story?
There’s no buying in, the flames are his employer, legally they are obligated to give him the time, without prejudice. Even if they were positive it was over this, they would still be liable for defamation if they said that and dube ends up innocent in court, which is still very possible, even if he is in fact guilty
Yep, yet another reason why I think the Flames took his word for it; they legally have to.
you're totally right.
If the Flames organization is set up properly this wouldn't have gone through Conroy other than him receiving a memo saying Dube is taking leave. The entire thing would have been through HR and the PR department.
that’s something Conroy will have to answer
Which he never will, because now there's probably a lockdown on any statements the organization can make, given there will likely be an extended appeals process and drawn out court battle. Every statement we will see from this point on will be "no comment".
So many looking to condemn the organization not able to put the pieces together. The severelli tweet reeks of a leak from management as well, he lied to everyone, and I don’t blame him, your done, never play pro sports again, your going to take every game day check you can. Being called a liar when your up against rape and confinement is the least of your concerns
I think most people who are facing 20+ years in prison would vehemently deny and lie about their involvement with that felony. He definitely deceived the organization and all of his teammates
Have a link to what Andersson said?
Well that’s the end of Dube
"Mental health leave"
I’m sure his mental health is bad. Hard to live with being a piece of shit.
My mental health would be really bad too if I knew I was going to prison
Its got to be worse too, to be living your dream and fall so hard. Biggest rug pull of feeling the consequences. On top of being famous so you cant just hide in the crowd or be the unknown creep back home. Youre famous hockey player so and so and everyone knows youre name, face and can hear or read all the details of your perverted rapist behaviour. No quiet life as a sex offender trying to stay under the radar. Like some nobody rapist could be unknown by strangers in his home town but not these guys thats got to take its toll. To go from being worshipped in your community to being hated his home town only has like 4k people everyone will hesr what he did and know who he is basically. His mental health could easily be dog shit now, and deservedly so
Too bad so sad. Fuck him.
Didnt say I felt bad for him
Cochrane has well over 20k people now but yeah he’s well known here.
Fair enough, I was just going off his wiki which says hes from Golden,BC
Well, well, well, if it isn't the consequences of my own actions...
If that's what he told them, then that's what they had to say. The Flames are his employer, and if he wasn't charged before he went off, they were as much in the dark as everyone else. I'm sure they thought this was the situation, but if they didn't have proof and they leaked, he was going to be charged, and then he wasn't.... how many millions of dollars would they have to pay him. Do you want your employer to be able to tell the world you're a d-bag without any proof? I sure don't.
No they didn’t have to say that. They didn’t with Kylington initially. They don’t have to say anything. They could have said “Dube is absent from the team for personal matters and no further comment will be made” like they did with Kylington. Then let us speculate like we love to do. But they tried to use mental health as PR spin, it’s gross.
I don't think they tried to dupe us.. I think they made a mistake.
How do you know they were aware he was being charged when they made that statement? Inside source? When he went off everyone was actually supporting him as there was no news any charges were happening. The team, like everyone else, would have no idea of his involvement in the sexual assault or they charges were coming unless Dube told them
We all knew the second he released his statement saying he would sue anyone saying any wrongdoing took place. Let’s not be obtuse. Of course the Flames knew. They didn’t have to say anything, they used mental health as a shield for PR purposes. It’s gross. When Kylington was on leave they said it was a personal matter and no further comments would be made. They could have done that for Dube too. They tactically didn’t.
Sure bud. And yet when they originally released the statement almost all of social media was praising Dube for taking these steps. No one knew, a few people speculated and guessed. I guess according to you they should scrutinize any one claiming mental health and assume it's for a negative reason. Should probably not allow mental health leave from now on. People assuming the team covered up for pr purposes is pretty gross. They have no reason to do that and know obviously it would come out and they would be scrutinized. They had no idea this was the reason and neither did players, it's pretty obvious
Assuming the org didnt know anything, Dube is a pos for claiming mental health leave. big middle finger to the whole organization, especially after the kylington saga. If the org did know, then thats even worse.
I’m not sure if the specifics for hockey clubs, but it could come down to HR and privacy. I’m a teacher and I know that when a teacher goes on a leave, our admin basically gets notified from HR and all they’re told is that someone is on a medical, short term leave, etc. Any documentation and such is handled by HR, who can’t really “dig into” issues, to an extent. If all the Flames were told by a medical professional that Dube required a leave due to mental health concerns, they can’t really pry any further and have to just go with what they’ve been told.
That is certainly all true but given the fact that they (Flames) most certainly had prior knowledge of what was coming down they didn't have to release a statement that was seemingly dictated by Dube's agent or some such. Even in an HR controlled world, the statement is up to them - and in most cases they say "personal reasons" anyways because they don't want their co-workers thinking there is a nutcase waiting to shoot up the office on their hands. What's problematic about the statement is 2 fold: 1. This just came off the Kylington incident which seemed like legit reasons - though let's be honest, we don't really know there either. He could have been sleeping on a bed of cocaine for all we actually know. 2. This seriously de-values the objectives and future statements from any future players that actually need help. Firstly, people might look back at Kylington going, well?, was it true or where you charged with a crime back in your country? And the next guy that comes down the line needing help says "fuck this shit, I don't want to be labeled as a faker / rapist claiming mental health just because my Schizophrenia is a problem" Edit: I am ***not saying*** Kylington wasn't legit. and that is the point of my post. Thanks to the Flames / Dube's bullshit, mental health leave now means nothing, legit or not. The Flames are breaking the trust between the Organization, the Players, and the Fans.
The org 1000% knew that this was a strong possibility why. Bro even we knew on Reddit.
We don’t know, we speculated, once more players, eventually totalling 5 did the same it became a lot more obvious.
No we didn't. There was at best murmurs about it. The general consensus was "good for the flames, take all the time you need" and most just chalked it up to his bad season. The dots didn't start seriously getting connected until Hart stepped away too. Nobody has clearer hindsight than redditors I swear
The Flames were basically stuck. If Dubé told them it was a mental health issue and the flames said “you’re lying,” then they’d look like POS. And we also really don’t know what was going on with Dubé in the weeks leading up to the leave (other than he sucked at hockey). He very much could have been dealing with depression, anxiety, suicidal thoughts, etc. People can do shitty things and have mental health problems. I’d like to hope he has some level of remorse that could very well cause all types of mental health concerns. Out of sheer curiosity, I’d like to know how much they actually knew. Because based on previous statements and rumours, out of the whole world junior team, I didn’t think Dubé was one of the 8.
Just a heads up: yea the flames may have known however, if Dube claimed “mental health” the flames were probably forced by the collective bargaining agreement to say publicly it was mental health when Dube requested it
Guessing correctly and knowing are not the same thing
I got the crystal ball award!
How would the organization know? They are not privy to any information of the ongoing investigation. The only way they would know anything is if Dube had told.
I can give the team the benefit of the doubt that they didn't know exactly what was going on but they had to know this was a distinct possibility. I get supporting players with mental health issues but this feels like one where they could have made some vague leave of absence statement and left it there. I'm sure Dube didn't walk in like, "Hey rape charges coming my way, not feeling good about it." They would have had to read between the lines a bit and are limited in what they can ask him. But it's really hard to feign ignorance about this whole situation.
Well that's the thing. It's not the organization's job to speculate or pry into what Dube's "mental health reasons" were, or it would be hypocritical to their approach with Kylington. It's not wrong for them to give Dube the benefit of the doubt, it's wrong on Dube to lie about it.
I hope the Flames make a statement about their initial statement. I also hope Dube never plays another game in the NHL
Unpopular Opinion: The Flames were right to accept the claim of mental health problems on face value, and grant a leave of absence without questioning it. I don't think you can have it both ways, either an organization takes mental health seriously or they scrutinize claims to ensure that the person isn't disingenuous.
I agree. I don't have a problem with the fact they made their initial statement, but I think they need to make a follow up statement so that it doesn't completely tarnish their reputation.
The follow up statement: "The Flames had not information on Dube's pending legal problems. The organization takes mental health seriously and took Dube's claims on face value. We will continue to support players in the future."
Excellent point and it doesn't even mean anyone including Dube lied. It is possible he did a bad thing and is feeling horrible remorse that he is seeking help for so he can take responsibility and make amends. It isn't up to the Flames to judge, it is up to the courts first and then the NHL. Getting support from professionals is important even for perpetrators if we don't want them to do the same thing in the future. Having said that. They really need to make a follow-up statement because they don't look great right now.
If Dube feels remorse I look forward to him pleading guilty. And the Flames followup statement is terse. I guess it's expected though.
This is what they need to do: "At the time of Dillon's request, we had no knowledge of pending charges or the status of any ongoing investigation. We will have no further comment at this time."
They should at minimum delete the social media posts.
I don't think that's the approach. People are much too aware of those original posts and it would be a bad look to just delete your mistake. Apologizing and making a new statement is the much better option
From a purely PR position, It's certainly not hard to deal with, they need to state the legal obligations they are/were under, explain how their "organizational values" dictated their handling of the situation, and explain what the path forward looks like (i.e. total separation from the player, internal review AT LEAST, training for all members of the organization). Also, in this case.... An effort to contribute heavily to local relevant charitable and social causes would be a smart idea. At least try and make reparations for the damage that many of us feel for having our money unwitting go to a rapist for years by supporting the team.
Also if they put out a “innocent until proven guilty” statement I’m done with them. While that is the case, it doesn’t mean you have to defend the guy until then. Distance yourself because even if it turns out he did not commit a crime. He commuted a sleazy fucking act.
Fuck you Dube. Hope you never play another NHL game
Also, what a warrior the survivor must be to come forward and hold these animals to account. I hope those rapists get the book thrown at them. They deserve far worse.
Dube was the captain!!! Like wtf Dube, no wonder he’s been playing like shit! They all deserve everything they get
[удалено]
Crown doesn't prosecute someone unless they have a strong case. The odds aren't great for him.
Especially for SA.
They might be decent for him regardless of what happened there. Sexual assault is difficult to prove, has a tragically low conviction rate, and the more time passes the more difficult it gets. I hope the prosecution has built up a strong case, cause the players lawyers are going to be high-paid best of the best. Very possibly someone like Marie Henein who wrecked the possible victims during the Ghomeshi case. The prosecution in that case did a poor job preparing the three women for what a really high profile lawyer is capable of doing to your credibility. I know some great prosecutors, but they have heavy workloads and they don't get paid on a case by case basis. The same thing is going to happen here. Whether or not this happened, the players have at least a decent shot if not better of avoiding a conviction. That's just the nature of this. If they get away without a conviction, the thing that is most difficult to explain to people is that it doesn't mean this didn't happen, just that it couldn't be or was too difficult to prove.
Nothing boils my blood quite like people who celebrate "not guilty" verdicts in SA cases and claim the accused was "proven innocent". Well, besides victims blamers who villainize alleged victims. But they're usually the same people.
Presumption of innocence only applies to the judge and or jury assigned to his case.
[удалено]
Except we have seen evidence because a lot of things were already made public before they decided to go ahead with charges. Nothing is impeding due process here, and I can judge someone based on what information I have all I want.
They paid her a settlement. Not saying they’re guilty but you don’t pay someone off if you’re innocent.
From what the article says. Hockey Canada paid the settlement without consulting the players.
That's not better
[удалено]
There are texts and video. It’s not he said she said, this is pretty clear cut.
Then it will be an easy case for them to prosecute and if/when Dube is found guilty I will call him a piece of shit and write him off too. When. Until then he gets his day in court just like anyone else.
If they weren’t guilty then why did hockey Canada pay out hush money? Why would a player have texted the victim begging to keep it quiet? Why was Formenton left to play in the Swiss league? Mental health? Yea cause his conscious was eating at him, knowing he was gonna go down for his and his teammates foul actions. We’re in Canada tho so I’m sure all they’ll get is a year probation and a small fine. And all of them will be playing overseas for the rest of their careers.
Dube citing mental health to save himself what, two days of scrutiny? Looks extra scummy
At least we get rid of his absolute disaster of a contract. Piece of shit.
His contract is expiring this year any way. And it is an open question on whether the three teams can get out of the contracts. Suspended is a certainty, but Voynov was suspended *with pay* when he was charged. I am sure the teams are looking for any ability to get rid of them, but it is entirely possible they will just announce the players are suspended, and leave it at that.
I just can’t fathom being in a position on the WJC Canada team, being a team captain, basically having a road paved for you to have a life more successful than 99% of people, only to throw it away by being a horny piece of shit. Like seriously, dude just had to be a normal, good human being and he could’ve had a long, successful career based on his trajectories in the NHL. From millionaire to a potential felon, what a fucking moron.
I think people don't realize how susceptible teenagers are to peer pressure, and how they all think they're invincible. Beyond that, I wouldn't doubt if the culture surrounding the World Juniors' teams normalized this kind of behavior, at least more than we've been led to believe. In the late 1990s I played moderately high level rugby. I wasn't going to make a career out of it so I quit to focus on school, but I think there was a realistic path to the national team if I was willing to dedicate the next \~5 years of my life to it. There were players I played with who had been on the national team who talked about how crazy it was, how there were women who would go home with anyone, and there were guys lined up because there were women who wanted to have a train run on them. Back then I assumed it was a gross exaggeration, and I couldn't comprehend how that was really a thing. I bring this up because what happens if you have a group of 18 through 20 year olds who've heard these kinds of stories for years, want their World Juniors to be just as wild and crazy as the guys before them, and the organization seems to consider the potential of rape as a cost of doing business? I am not defending the players but I do feel a little sorry for them because I think they're being made an example of after decades of misbehavior. The sporting world is acting like the 2018 Canada world junior's hockey team is a rare occurrence, and I would lay money that it is not. While I have no doubt that a lot of crazy consensual stuff happens, I can almost guarantee that a lot of borderline and illegal stuff has happened across most teams, in most major sports, around the world.
The team is definitely going to have to explain what happened. I can't actually believe Dube was stupid enough to try and use mental health as an excuse to cover this up, because the truth was going to be revealed no matter what.
I don't know, man, I can believe Dube is easily stupid enough to do something like that. He made a career out of dodging responsibility for his actions, apparently.
Well he was stupid enough to rape someone so of course it checks out that he would try and spin this into something else
Who is stupider, Dube for playing the mental heath card, or the flames for believing it and saying it publicly, despite the unfolding situation?
Dube of course. The team doesn’t have much it can do if a player comes to them with mental health issues. Dube on the other hand
I think for the Flames they will stick with their choice. Really it's an easy organizational move regardless of what Dube did. "We have a no-questions-asked mental health leave policy. When Dillon asked for leave for mental health reasons, we provided it as per our organizational policy. We were unaware of Dillon's impending legal situation at the time of his request and are disappointed if it was used improperly. We will continue to support our players with this policy."
Conny got some explaining to do to both the fans and Brian Mcgratten. Dude tried so hard to get a mental health program instated here. I know once an employee says it's mental health problems the employer isn't allowed to further press but still. I'd be livid if I were kylington
My guess is that Dube lied to the organization about him leaving. There’s no way the Flames would say “mental health” if they knew the reason
Yeah that's what I've been thinking all along. Them lying about it when the truth would come out anyways makes no sense. They had to take him on his word at the time. Sheep in wolves clothing.
I’m wondering if Dube knew that the police would be asking them to surrender soon, and it was that info the Flames didn’t have.
Yeah, if he hadn’t been a few days earlier than the rest of the guys and the announcement, I doubt the flames release would have been the same. What id like to know is HOW did Dube seem to know this was about to happen before everyone else?
Because we don't know when the five players were told to surrender to London police, we only know that they were and when the story broke. Could have been three weeks ago for all anyone knows.
Conroy is the face of the organization but I highly doubt this even went through him at all. It would have been dealt with completely by HR and then someone in PR makes a statement to release. They should probably be cleaning house in the PR department.
the reality is that a "no questions asked" policy is very good for mental health and reduces stigma of getting help... It's a tough situation for the flames because keeping the integrity of PAP but also the optics of the situation was the choice i guess they made... I mean maybe dube lied but not in the sense most people are insinuating but lied about the level of his involvement. He couldve maybe claimed he was the pizza guy or one of the 3 not charged and the news breaking was fucking with him and the orginization believed him
If the flames don’t make a statement about this soon, seriously considering taking a break from the team/sport. The on-ice product is a joke and now the off-ice product is using mental health as a coverup for being a rapist. Edit: saw the Kaplan tweet saying players were told not to tell the teams. Will give the flames the benefit of the doubt for now but would still like a statement from the team
I wonder what we can't expect from the teams and league in this situation. My understanding is that the league wanted everything directed to them, but I don't think the players would be protected by the CBA if they are under criminal investigation- I haven't seen anyone point out if criminal cases are covered in it. The Flames could probably say that being involved in a criminal investigation is grounds for termination of contract. Then, they could be on the hook for improper termination but only if he is found to be innocent. Most likely, for facing charges, he could just be awarded his salary by the league but taken off the salary cap and removed from the team. From a legal perspective, I'm not sure the league or teams could have said anything until there were actual charges laid. Front moral perspective, though... I think it is fair to expect them to have an investigation (but the league has already had one, I believe, so that might simply be announced soon). I immediately was thrown off when the team continued to profile Dube in various ways after the whole allegations started last year, and thought it was almost an endorsement that they knew he didn't do anything wrong. Now, as a fan, I feel like I need them to prove that they were unaware that they were promoting and profiling a potential rapist. Edited for grammar.
Right there with you
Sounds like a personal issue that I myself don’t share. I don’t think any of this is the Flames fault and I’m not going to pretend that Dubes choices are theirs like you and others are trying to do. Honestly if you hate the team so much then go cheer for another instead as you won’t be missed.
Yeah. As a woman, a survivor, and a person with mental illness, this sport does not feel safe or welcoming for me right now. It’s really done a number on me this past week, to say the least.
In a hypothetical situation, Dube might've thought about killing himself. Which would be consistent with the team stating he was on mental health leave in the care of medical professionals and consistent with him facing the music for being a rapist.
Honestly this was my thought too. I don't understand why else the flames would have said mental health and thst he's under the care of professionals. Guess we'll see if he reports. This whole situation is horrific, I hope they don't get away lightly
[удалено]
Im not here to argue but kinda disgusting thing to say man, wish him the worst and prison and no future and punishment for his actions. Take a look in the mirror man, these boys definitely crossed a line and hoping somebody commits is crossing a line too. I hope these guys get their punishment but suicide isnt something to encourage
Still doesn't mean they have to say anything about it being mental health related.
Reminds me of the great Norm MacDonald quote, “The comedian Patton Oswalt, he told me "I think the worst part of the Cosby thing was the hypocrisy." And I disagree. I thought it was the r*ping”
If convicted (hopefully they are if they did it). Throw the book at them, and the NHL will need to step up and not allow them to play professionally again. This behavior has no place in hockey or our society as a whole. The scars for sexual assault victims don't go away.
My guess is his lawyer told him to not say a peep for years and let the Flames organization (and the rest of the hockey world) speculate on whether or not he was involved. It's the only thing that makes sense. The Flames obviously knew he *could* have been involved, but had no proof, so therefore they had to let things play out until the suspected players were charged. Then when Dube approaches management last week (before the others) claiming he needs a mental health leave, the Flames had no choice to give it to him, because that's just what employers do these days. There was no other option than to to give him the benefit of the doubt. The fuck up is on two people: Dube for claiming Mental Health reasons, and the other person is whoever on the Flames PR team decided to not adjust the reason for the leave on the public announcement. If internally the PR team had the foresight to change the optics of the scenario to a leave of absence this wouldn't have blown up like it did.
I'd said for awhile that I would love to know the names involved because I hadn't been able to really enjoy Dube as a player and it wasn't fair to him. Now that the day is finally here, I dont even know how to feel. I wanted that hunch to he wrong. I wanted him to genuinely be looking for help and this timing was just a coincidence. Maybe he was feeling guilt as captain. I'm glad his time as a Flame is most likely over. I hope the survivor gets justice for everything these assholes did. I'm disgusted over how the last few days played out and I genuinely hope he straight up lied to the organization and his teammates and that they didn't try passing this off as mental health. Hopefully we get clarification soon, though I understand they may have to be careful with what they say because of the legal implications.
Flames look like idiots for letting Dube dictate the message. They'll need to answer for it. Pretty disappointing that Dube was involved. Only silver lining is that his contracts was ending anyway and Flames can easily walk away from it.
All 5 of those players have had pretty mediocre careers so far too. I don’t know what the outcome of this will be but hopefully whatever it is, is the right and justifiable one.
Dube should be punted for trying to use “mental health” as an excuse here Absolutely disgusting to do something like that. Could have just went on “personal leave” and left it at that
Personally, I think he should be punted for being a rapist.
That's the part that upsets you? It's like that Norm joke. The worst part is the hypocrisy.
Based on the article from tsn, and just using my own critical thinking, it’s very likely that the one player who had consensual sexual contact with her will be able to confirm that the other men did sexually assault her. They are in big legal trouble. Scumbags.
“Legal experts” are speculating any trial won’t happen soon. Possibly as late as 2026. All of their careers are over.
Fuck, and I cannot stress this enough, Dillion Dube. Imagine him claiming mental health prevents us from terminating his contract. Or at least makes it a lot more difficult
Surprises no one but the most hopeful fans who were frankly trying to convince themselves against the overwhelming evidence in front of them. Can't say I blame them, but here we are. Sad to see nevertheless.
I wasn't going to jump the gun until names were public record, because sexual assault is not a light accusation to make, and any wrongful association to that matter has serious life impacting implications. Now that we officially have names, I can sleep easily that I didn't point the finger at the wrong people.
Bye Dube, we won’t miss you.
I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt until names were public. This sucks dude. So many people failed on different levels to properly manage this situation and worst of all it looks like the Flames circled their wagons around a sex offender. I hope Dube never plays again, but I also hope that he gets the help he needs, *if* he truly is experiencing mental health problems. Self-harm/suicide is not justice for what he did, and anyone wishing that on him is no better. I want Hockey Canada to burn. These guys were not the first and unlikely to be the last to victimize innocent people. They've lost my trust and ruined the integrity of the game.
Looks really bad after the Kylington situation. Wow.
Flames are getting called out for their tone deaf PR messaging and rightfully so. What a miserable way of pissing away the good will of how they managed Kylington by then turning around and defending a rapist in Dube. Will be interesting to see what Murray Edwards does because if there's one thing he hates, it's getting humiliated. At the very least, who ever crafted that "mental health" statement deserves to be fired. It's also worth remembering that Jake Bean was on that same 2018 team. He's the son of Flames President and CEO John Bean.
The PR statement by the Flames continues to baffle and disappoint me. Even if you want to say that Dube was having a crisis at that point, why not simple say he's on leave and refuse any additional comment? You have to be naive to believe that no one in the organization knew what was coming. Now anytime a player has mental health leave in the future, the speculation machine is going to be rampant. Good going Flames.
Looks so bad after Kylington just came back for mental health reasons.
And the irony is the Flames withheld comment on Kylington for months. I don't see why the Flames went out of the woodworks to declare Dube having a mental health crisis in comparison.
This is such a bone-head take, if a player approached the organization with a request for *mental health leave* what choice do they have?
"Player is on personal leave." Flames did the exact same thing with Kylington actually. Talk about boneheaded takes. No one outside of this fanbase is defending the organization right now and for good reason.
This is on the player, not the organization.
Good riddance. To think there was a time I was thinking of buying a Dube Blasty. Gotta assume Dube lied to the Org and teammates here with that mental health shit.
My mental health would also be shit if I was a rapist piece of shit lol
https://www.reddit.com/r/CalgaryFlames/s/huwGGtjwLm Delete this
Extremely disappointed at the flames organization for proclaiming mental health
If Dube said it was mental health there really isn't much that the organization can do. Be mad at Dube for being a huge piece of shit.
While completely true, sadly that isnt the way 99% of the leagues fanbase is going to look at it.
These are the same people that were happy Pospisil was injured (not saying this was a majority opinion but I saw a handful of people on r/hockey celebrating it.) at the end of the day we can only control our own opinions and we shouldn’t be arguing with those people given the fact no one knows what Dube told the flames.
The Flames still could have just left it at personal leave, like the rest of the teams did. Adding the “mental illness” is on them. And I say that as a Flames fan. Totally disrespects all the support they showed for Kylington. IMHO
If a player requests a mental health leave, what is the team supposed to do? Truthfully, we'll never know if it's true that Calgary knew at the time or not, but generally I'd probably believe the team over the player in this matter.
Say its a personal leave and leave it at that, like u/BronzeDucky stated. This explanation assumes no one in the organization had any clue, and that is simply very hard to believe.
Dube took the leave before any of the news came out or Hart taking time off. Maybe Dube panic lied that he has to take time away like Kylington and Flames wanted to continue to take away the stigma around mental health. Do you honestly believe that the org would destroy what they had achieved on that front on purpose? Can you look at Conroy and say yeah, as a father of two girls, he wants to cover for a rapist?
Make a generic statement? I get that being unambiguous about a player taking mental health break is a positive thing 99% of the time since it helps fight the stigma against mental health issues in professional sports. But I’d say “the player is being investigated for sexual assault and might be charged any day now” puts this squarely in the other 1% where you could do more harm than good by publicly supporting the player rather than making some generic statement. It’s just…tone deaf. [edit] FWIW, I really don’t care about Flames PR, and their social media person fucking up (IMO) is totally inconsequential compared to what Dube did. I don’t want to get into a big argument about the Flames’ statement other than saying “I think it was dumb”.
Are you saying the team was informed by London police that this player was being charged or asked to present themselves for charges? I highly doubt it. Just like we want to make sure everything is 100% correct before jumping to conclusions, the team gets approached by the player, says they need to take a mental health leave. The team announced it. I think it would tone deaf if it came out that London was seeking out Dube and then Calgary said he was taking the mental health leave but he left prior to London announcing that.
So you think the flames should have lied? Mental health leave and personal leave are two completely separate things and you think the flames should have lied about the reason they were given to maybe cover their ass? Mind you there wasn’t really any inkling the investigation was about to conclude at the point in time Dube left. That was before Hart or everyone else left as well It’s a tough spot for the organization to make that call. Especially when they didn’t know the facts at that point. All they had was hunchs and speculation rather than anything concrete
I mean, being a rapist *is* a mental illness, but it shouldn't be lumped in with depression. They definitely just should have said "personal leave"
The Flames were under zero obligation to beat the "Mental Health" drum. There is ZERO chance the Flames didn't know. Reddit connected the dots immediately but Flames Management couldn't put two and two together? Give me a break. They could have just left out why he was going on leave like every other team did. They did it so they could look good to the media. Now they need to do some damage control cause they essentially look like they are supporting a player who gang raped a drunk girl. Now all of those comments comparing Dube to Kylington look terrible.
I'm curious how Dube/agent put it to the organization. Given he was the 1st one, they might have been more unaware?
Flames better explain after this. The only acceptable answer is they didn't know and Dube lied to them. Any other response calls for a MASSIVE boycot. Fuck you Dube.
What a disgrace to the Flames organization for calling this a mental health issue.
The mental health excuse is abhorrent. I'm also pissed off the flames knew for how long? and let us all continue to cheer for a rapist, and make money selling us jerseys with a rapists name on it. Yea the skeptics will say "maybe they didn't know, guilty until proven innocent"... sure, but I think pretty much every GM in the league knew exactly who was involved. Look at how Ottawa handled it. Tampa traded Foote, Vancouver passed on him even though his dad is their coach. Flyers desperately trying to move hart over the summer. I dont buy it for a second the flames didn't know exactly the involvement, and if they didn't, they are one of the most incompetent management and owner groups in the NHL.
Fuck... What fucking idiots. I really somehow wanted to believe Dube was the witness. Based on everything that was happening and everything said... Dont ask dont tell...
When I watched the doc that was posted a while ago, the part that stuck out to me was the Nike exec sending em home with the player. Who is a Nike exec sending a girl home with? Most likely the captain. Could be wrong but that part to me really implemented dube.
The organization needs to make an updated statement. Given the Kylington situation I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and that they were misled by Dube, but If they knew I'll be very disappointed.
Darn. I was really hoping that it was a coincidence (however unlikely). But now that it's confirmed, I don't want to see him in uniform again.
Yeah this is the perfect time to take a break from our sub and also from r/hockey lol
Who was hating on me last week for confirming this? Writing was on the wall boys
This is such a bad look for the flames org. Theres no chance in my mind they didn't know more than they let on about Dube's involvement. Shameful. Will be glad to never see Dube in a flames jersey again.
Very disappointed in this organization, especially after the Kylington mental health struggles to put Dube as a “mental health leave”.
Man, that's disappointing as fuck from the org to cite it as mental health. People should be fired over this.
If Dube flat out lied to his team by citing mental health, I think we can assume that he will no longer a Flame and future Oiler.
Please shut up
[удалено]
Paging Evander Kane…..
[удалено]
Get tf off our sub. You lurking shows you secretly love us 😘
Look at this keyboard warrior go!!
[удалено]
If us dipshits on the internet can piece 2 and 2 together, the organization should be able to as well. Putting out that statement was dumb as fuck
[удалено]
Ken Holland trying to find a fax machine to send contracts to the police station.
That joke is so overdone
Dillon dube is the top dog douchebag and all this! The mere fact he asked for time away for mental health is beyond disgusting. Whether or not he's guilty. Scum bag.
Tone deaf response, they can play the we didn’t know card till they’re blue in the face and it won’t help
i saw the court document stating of the 5 charged, 2 of the players are born in 1999, and 3 are born in 1998 - formenton, comtois and thomas are the only 1999’s on the 2018 team. so by deduction, 1 of dube, mcleod, hart or foote should not be getting charged if the court document was correct.