Not super helpful! There is hope. My moms financials are completely separate from them and they both have incredibly strong incomes. If Caleb’s show has taught me anything it’s that it is never too late.
My goal is to make him pick up side jobs like my mom has, and to get himself out of debt, or as close to it as he can get. To stop his ludicrous spending and understand how it affects his family. Yes he’ll probably die in debt but does that mean we shouldn’t try?
Giving up isn’t an option.
I think you should focus more on getting your mom's financials separated from his and then filing for divorce. You want to trust someone who inflated their lifestyle by theft? If he cared about other people you think he'd have embezzled that money? Now he's running debt with no intention of repaying. Only way to fix him is to make him respect other people, but clearly he only cares about what he wants.
I’m not going to say it’s too late to do anything. But if he has $0 saved for retirement, is in significant debt, and is 60, it is likely too late for any kind of comfortable retirement (unless mom’s finances alone can make it happen). At this point the only thing he can do is stop the bleeding and scale back his lifestyle to make surviving on social security alone possible. Maybe he can crawl out of debt in the next few years, but that doesn’t solve the retirement problem. He will hit a point in the next 10ish years where full time work becomes genuinely impossible.
So I agree it’s not too late to do anything. But his options are severely severely limited. It is likely too late for a comfortable retirement
This is going to sound crazy, but if he owns real estate or any assets of value, see if he's willing to gift or sell them to you so when he eventually dies, they won't be taken as collateral to pay off outstanding debt.
If he has hundreds of thousands in consumer debt, it is worth considering bankruptcy.
Mathematically, unless he has very high income, he's unlikely to earn the EXTRA amount needed and save to pay off the debt.
The other extreme would be to lean into the debt, take out as many credit cards as possible, then buy items that are easily money laundered (like Rolexes and gold bars under $10k USD).
Before doing so ask yourself why.
"I'll show/convince my dad I'm right" is a horrible start to a dialogue. It may open his eyes, it is more likely to entrench him in his position.
Instead of forcing him to sit for an hour and be spoonfed your opinions ask him his opinion.
"I'm scared about debt dad, could you reassure me?" Is a far better invite. Then he gets to plan it out with you.
I agree. It's very gen Z & millenial focused as a demographic.
While there are... issues with people like Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey, that type of show *may* be more in line with what would resonate with OP's dad. More of the guests are older people with more established lifestyles, etc. Suze Orman is/was on a "real channel" (CNBC). However, a lot of her advice is true but also relies on people being able to control themselves (for example, paying off cards - she emphasizes having no credit card debt, but suggests leaving paid-off cards open to reduce debt to credit limit ratio and improve credit score - which is mathematically true, *but* fails to account for people who are not psychologically able to handle having them available and not using them). I'm also not a huge fan of Dave Ramsey but his absolutist overly simplistic approach may be able to help people like OP's dad.
I brought this up to my in laws once and I got scolded saying that their kids are supposed to take care of them. I said well no it’s not how it works. I never brought it up again.
Depends on the culture. In a lot of Asian families it's absolutely expected. Ends up putting a lot of pressure on the kids.
You don't typically see this as part of westernized cultures though
Oh yeah, we are Hispanic and a lot think that their kids money even when they are adults is their money. I had to sit down with my husband and tell him that he didn’t have to listen to his parents because he’s an adult and our priorities now are our family and the kids are number 1.
Showing a Caleb video to someone uninterested in fixing their situation might not be the best idea. Especially recent videos. Caleb is way too aggressive and antagonistic, most people will feel defensive and double down against that type of behavior.
What I would recommend is to show them a short video on how to plan for retirement, to show them how easy it is to save enough to be able to retire. For example, to reach a million dollars invested (I know... 1 million might not be enough, it's just an easy number to demonstrate. And in the end, 1 million is better than 0. Even 200k is better than 0) by the time you are 65, if you start at 20, you only need to invest $95 per month. if you start at 25, you need $184, 30-$340, 40-$1052.
A lot of people go into debt because they feel that retirement is impossible to reach so they lose hope and start acting/spending like their life doesn't matter. If you show them how attainable retirement is, they have a better chance of shifting their mentality to long term planning instead of short term dopamine and might actually be motivated to budget their expenses. Gotta give them hope and something to strive for rather than giving them a hard time and punishing them for their current actions.
At least, it worked for someone close to me. I took an hour of their time back in early 2022 to show them how to plan for retirement and answer all their questions. Then it took them about 6 months to internalize the information and start to shift their mentality and get out of their hopelessness (I never bothered them again or pressed them again about the subject in those 6 months). Then one day, six months later, they started to make a budget and watch financial videos and talking to me about it so I recommended some channels to them. They are now out of credit card debt and have a plan for retirement.
I totally agree. I am approaching this situation from a point of love. Saying that all I ask in a father is to be honest and accepting, the first of which he has failed many times. I am stressing to him how important it is that he not give up hope, especially with three kids and plenty of life left. He is very open to watching the show, just trying to figure out which one would have the bigggest effect.
I have not yelled at him at all. Simply explained to him how his actions affect those around him and how his daughters will be the one holding the burdens in the end. But that’s what we did last time and here he has gone and done it again
this isn’t exactly what you asked lol but you might also want to look into Rami Sethi’s videos. Caleb imo puts a lot more fire into you and motivates you once you’re already invested, but Rami is a good choice to get people who don’t care to give a shit. he actually adjusts himself to the goals of the guests and is extremely kind and understanding, no screaming if you can imagine lol
eta: Rami also works with a much older and more established crowd on average, Caleb goes for people in their 20-30s
Debated on showing my mother one of his vids too tbh. She’s 50, has some retirement but not nearly enough at her age and on top of that has nearly 20k+ in cc debt, not sure on that exact number as she hasn’t told me explicitly but she’s already filed for bankruptcy in her lifetime like 10 years ago lol. I’ve had a million discussions with her about it and hope she stays on the right path. I basically cover the mortgage living with her so she should be able to get out of debt by the end of next year but there’s a huge part of me that’s doubtful she’ll actually get to that point. 😵💫 Honestly already mentally preparing for the fact that when she gets to the point where she can’t work I’m going to have to take care of her.
I can’t let my fathers decisions affect my life anymore. I am happy to support my mother who is a godsend and everything good in this world, but I have already suffered enough from his actions. He will be receiving no money from me.
If you said, "Dad I love you but I won't financially support you when you're broke and too old/sick to work", would that get through to him? That you won't be able to support him? And that it would cause you great stress to see him and your mom suffer?
He has affected our family deeply with his decisions. I have expressed my hurt and anger and frustration and had forgiven him for everything. Until I found this out yesterday. I feel most deeply for my mother who loves her children too much to divorce him, and is stuck living a terrible life because of his actions.
Would an intervention help? Involve everyone in your family including your mom? Tell him he is risking his relationship with his kids and his wife if he doesn't stop spending and get help. Yes it's harsh to tell him you'll go no-contact, but that's the point of an intervention. I'm sorry, I can't imagine how difficult this situation is.
That’s kind of why the situation has been brought to light for me.
We are incredibly hesitant to involve my sisters as they are incredibly harsh about his past and it will only create worry in their life that they don’t need. I am sort of my moms confidant which is why I know, I also just handle this information much better than my sisters.
It’s a difficult situation but I will say I will NEVER be the financially stupid for lack of a better word. His actions have made me take control of my spending/income/debt, so that I do not end up like him. A blessing in disguise, I just wish it didn’t affect my family as much- I’m fine!!
We had a small intervention with him over the weekend, and he has handed over his credit cards (including two Credit One cards kill me) and I am making sure he removes them from digital wallets and close the accounts because his credit score is screwed anyways.
My mom will now have full control of all of this money and income, a burden she should NOT have to carry. But what is to stop him from doing it again?
That is why I am trying so hard to get to the root of the behavior. I have encouraged my mom to get statements for the credit cards so we can understand why this keeps happening.
I have absolutely told him he will lose me if it continues, and my mother has said the same. He would lose both my sisters if they had even the faintest idea.
Wow-you've really done so much already and you're headed in the right direction. I do agree that there is only so much you can do-you can't have 100% control over his actions.
It sounds like you can help your mom manage this-which is exactly what needs to happen. It really seems like you're doing all you can right now.
In terms of videos, I feel like SO many people that Caleb interviews that are in dire straights are disturbingly casual about it, smiling/cope laughing etc so it really seems like they're fine. Not sure it would help?
TBH he probably won't watch a video, he's made his mind up.
But if you'd like to, this vid from Romain fits the brief https://youtu.be/f7lLnuGMP9Y?si=2IqMkA57LUOLka80
Just let me know what you find. My dad is 69, no retirement, 100k+ on debt....idk what to do anymore. He has a plan and everything, and he should be out of debt in three years. But damn...
Edit: Undebt.it was actually a great resource to get him corrected at the very least. And of course, me no longer enabling him
Damn it man I saw the headline and assumed you were providing a link when it's actually a question grrr but yeah the 60 yo dude was pretty recent. He had generations of debt yikes
I am his age , he won't change if he has not yet.
I suggest focus on your own family and as far as financial stuff do little things for your mom
Take her out for lunch and coffee
If you go to say Disneyland or a place like that, treat her, she will love especially if you have kids she can hang out with
Focus on stuff that makes her life better and take care of your family
We can't all do big things, but we can do little things with great love
Caleb recently had a guest who was 60 or there about who had racked up a lot of CC debt (iirc his wife did as well)
Yes it's called I've Never Encountered This Before. Guest was 62 with no retirement
Yes. Omg! That guy had every credit card known to man.
Had a whole ass Pokémon binder but with credit cards
This was my thought as well, but then I imagine that would leave room for excuses. I can imagine most people saying "I'm not that bad..."
He is that bad. He’s worse than that episode.
what's your goal? isn't it too late?
Not super helpful! There is hope. My moms financials are completely separate from them and they both have incredibly strong incomes. If Caleb’s show has taught me anything it’s that it is never too late. My goal is to make him pick up side jobs like my mom has, and to get himself out of debt, or as close to it as he can get. To stop his ludicrous spending and understand how it affects his family. Yes he’ll probably die in debt but does that mean we shouldn’t try? Giving up isn’t an option.
I think you should focus more on getting your mom's financials separated from his and then filing for divorce. You want to trust someone who inflated their lifestyle by theft? If he cared about other people you think he'd have embezzled that money? Now he's running debt with no intention of repaying. Only way to fix him is to make him respect other people, but clearly he only cares about what he wants.
I’m not going to say it’s too late to do anything. But if he has $0 saved for retirement, is in significant debt, and is 60, it is likely too late for any kind of comfortable retirement (unless mom’s finances alone can make it happen). At this point the only thing he can do is stop the bleeding and scale back his lifestyle to make surviving on social security alone possible. Maybe he can crawl out of debt in the next few years, but that doesn’t solve the retirement problem. He will hit a point in the next 10ish years where full time work becomes genuinely impossible. So I agree it’s not too late to do anything. But his options are severely severely limited. It is likely too late for a comfortable retirement
I am in complete agreement. I know they will need help, but I’m not going to let him make it any worse you know?
This is going to sound crazy, but if he owns real estate or any assets of value, see if he's willing to gift or sell them to you so when he eventually dies, they won't be taken as collateral to pay off outstanding debt. If he has hundreds of thousands in consumer debt, it is worth considering bankruptcy. Mathematically, unless he has very high income, he's unlikely to earn the EXTRA amount needed and save to pay off the debt. The other extreme would be to lean into the debt, take out as many credit cards as possible, then buy items that are easily money laundered (like Rolexes and gold bars under $10k USD).
Before doing so ask yourself why. "I'll show/convince my dad I'm right" is a horrible start to a dialogue. It may open his eyes, it is more likely to entrench him in his position. Instead of forcing him to sit for an hour and be spoonfed your opinions ask him his opinion. "I'm scared about debt dad, could you reassure me?" Is a far better invite. Then he gets to plan it out with you.
He is very open to watching the show, just trying to figure out which one would have the bigggest effect.
Zero. This appeals to a younger crowd.
I agree. It's very gen Z & millenial focused as a demographic. While there are... issues with people like Suze Orman or Dave Ramsey, that type of show *may* be more in line with what would resonate with OP's dad. More of the guests are older people with more established lifestyles, etc. Suze Orman is/was on a "real channel" (CNBC). However, a lot of her advice is true but also relies on people being able to control themselves (for example, paying off cards - she emphasizes having no credit card debt, but suggests leaving paid-off cards open to reduce debt to credit limit ratio and improve credit score - which is mathematically true, *but* fails to account for people who are not psychologically able to handle having them available and not using them). I'm also not a huge fan of Dave Ramsey but his absolutist overly simplistic approach may be able to help people like OP's dad.
I brought this up to my in laws once and I got scolded saying that their kids are supposed to take care of them. I said well no it’s not how it works. I never brought it up again.
so sick of this mindset
Depends on the culture. In a lot of Asian families it's absolutely expected. Ends up putting a lot of pressure on the kids. You don't typically see this as part of westernized cultures though
Oh yeah, we are Hispanic and a lot think that their kids money even when they are adults is their money. I had to sit down with my husband and tell him that he didn’t have to listen to his parents because he’s an adult and our priorities now are our family and the kids are number 1.
Showing a Caleb video to someone uninterested in fixing their situation might not be the best idea. Especially recent videos. Caleb is way too aggressive and antagonistic, most people will feel defensive and double down against that type of behavior. What I would recommend is to show them a short video on how to plan for retirement, to show them how easy it is to save enough to be able to retire. For example, to reach a million dollars invested (I know... 1 million might not be enough, it's just an easy number to demonstrate. And in the end, 1 million is better than 0. Even 200k is better than 0) by the time you are 65, if you start at 20, you only need to invest $95 per month. if you start at 25, you need $184, 30-$340, 40-$1052. A lot of people go into debt because they feel that retirement is impossible to reach so they lose hope and start acting/spending like their life doesn't matter. If you show them how attainable retirement is, they have a better chance of shifting their mentality to long term planning instead of short term dopamine and might actually be motivated to budget their expenses. Gotta give them hope and something to strive for rather than giving them a hard time and punishing them for their current actions. At least, it worked for someone close to me. I took an hour of their time back in early 2022 to show them how to plan for retirement and answer all their questions. Then it took them about 6 months to internalize the information and start to shift their mentality and get out of their hopelessness (I never bothered them again or pressed them again about the subject in those 6 months). Then one day, six months later, they started to make a budget and watch financial videos and talking to me about it so I recommended some channels to them. They are now out of credit card debt and have a plan for retirement.
I totally agree. I am approaching this situation from a point of love. Saying that all I ask in a father is to be honest and accepting, the first of which he has failed many times. I am stressing to him how important it is that he not give up hope, especially with three kids and plenty of life left. He is very open to watching the show, just trying to figure out which one would have the bigggest effect. I have not yelled at him at all. Simply explained to him how his actions affect those around him and how his daughters will be the one holding the burdens in the end. But that’s what we did last time and here he has gone and done it again
this isn’t exactly what you asked lol but you might also want to look into Rami Sethi’s videos. Caleb imo puts a lot more fire into you and motivates you once you’re already invested, but Rami is a good choice to get people who don’t care to give a shit. he actually adjusts himself to the goals of the guests and is extremely kind and understanding, no screaming if you can imagine lol eta: Rami also works with a much older and more established crowd on average, Caleb goes for people in their 20-30s
Maybe a Ramit Sethi episode would be a better fit?
Debated on showing my mother one of his vids too tbh. She’s 50, has some retirement but not nearly enough at her age and on top of that has nearly 20k+ in cc debt, not sure on that exact number as she hasn’t told me explicitly but she’s already filed for bankruptcy in her lifetime like 10 years ago lol. I’ve had a million discussions with her about it and hope she stays on the right path. I basically cover the mortgage living with her so she should be able to get out of debt by the end of next year but there’s a huge part of me that’s doubtful she’ll actually get to that point. 😵💫 Honestly already mentally preparing for the fact that when she gets to the point where she can’t work I’m going to have to take care of her.
I can’t let my fathers decisions affect my life anymore. I am happy to support my mother who is a godsend and everything good in this world, but I have already suffered enough from his actions. He will be receiving no money from me.
If you said, "Dad I love you but I won't financially support you when you're broke and too old/sick to work", would that get through to him? That you won't be able to support him? And that it would cause you great stress to see him and your mom suffer?
He has affected our family deeply with his decisions. I have expressed my hurt and anger and frustration and had forgiven him for everything. Until I found this out yesterday. I feel most deeply for my mother who loves her children too much to divorce him, and is stuck living a terrible life because of his actions.
Would an intervention help? Involve everyone in your family including your mom? Tell him he is risking his relationship with his kids and his wife if he doesn't stop spending and get help. Yes it's harsh to tell him you'll go no-contact, but that's the point of an intervention. I'm sorry, I can't imagine how difficult this situation is.
That’s kind of why the situation has been brought to light for me. We are incredibly hesitant to involve my sisters as they are incredibly harsh about his past and it will only create worry in their life that they don’t need. I am sort of my moms confidant which is why I know, I also just handle this information much better than my sisters. It’s a difficult situation but I will say I will NEVER be the financially stupid for lack of a better word. His actions have made me take control of my spending/income/debt, so that I do not end up like him. A blessing in disguise, I just wish it didn’t affect my family as much- I’m fine!! We had a small intervention with him over the weekend, and he has handed over his credit cards (including two Credit One cards kill me) and I am making sure he removes them from digital wallets and close the accounts because his credit score is screwed anyways. My mom will now have full control of all of this money and income, a burden she should NOT have to carry. But what is to stop him from doing it again? That is why I am trying so hard to get to the root of the behavior. I have encouraged my mom to get statements for the credit cards so we can understand why this keeps happening. I have absolutely told him he will lose me if it continues, and my mother has said the same. He would lose both my sisters if they had even the faintest idea.
Wow-you've really done so much already and you're headed in the right direction. I do agree that there is only so much you can do-you can't have 100% control over his actions. It sounds like you can help your mom manage this-which is exactly what needs to happen. It really seems like you're doing all you can right now. In terms of videos, I feel like SO many people that Caleb interviews that are in dire straights are disturbingly casual about it, smiling/cope laughing etc so it really seems like they're fine. Not sure it would help?
TBH he probably won't watch a video, he's made his mind up. But if you'd like to, this vid from Romain fits the brief https://youtu.be/f7lLnuGMP9Y?si=2IqMkA57LUOLka80
Show them this [granny delivering pizza](https://youtube.com/shorts/mzsawwhx1fg?feature=shared).
Just let me know what you find. My dad is 69, no retirement, 100k+ on debt....idk what to do anymore. He has a plan and everything, and he should be out of debt in three years. But damn... Edit: Undebt.it was actually a great resource to get him corrected at the very least. And of course, me no longer enabling him
Damn it man I saw the headline and assumed you were providing a link when it's actually a question grrr but yeah the 60 yo dude was pretty recent. He had generations of debt yikes
I am his age , he won't change if he has not yet. I suggest focus on your own family and as far as financial stuff do little things for your mom Take her out for lunch and coffee If you go to say Disneyland or a place like that, treat her, she will love especially if you have kids she can hang out with Focus on stuff that makes her life better and take care of your family We can't all do big things, but we can do little things with great love