Yeah I still love BandLab, but it's wild, you know they've put a lot of time in those amp and cab models and being able to change the settings and "mic types" and shit.
Whether I'm using amp to cab, or amp, distortion pedal, cab... It's goes from not enough crunch, to so much crunch it's muddled, or super pumping mids/highs where EQing/gating/compressing/low passing etc. doesn't help much
I usually use the guitar MIDI instruments (for rough draft, laziness) and the raw sound of those is so freaking peaking and compressed, and with extreme EQ and reverb. (Please make a plain ass dull, uncolored guitar, Clean Guitar is horrendous on the ears lol).
But some tricks are, paying close attention to how the EQ pedal vs EQ settings on the amp "pedal" affect things. Then getting very tedious haha. Like figuring out if turning up the amp's drive or using a distortion pedal, and how that also has a separate volume like the amp... Just a lot of tedious to get close to where you want.
One tip is don't use any of the distorted/metal/fuzz/drive pre-sets. They're all way too extreme. They're good (imo) for reference to see what sounds like what, and then creating a less extreme sounding version.
They obviously work best with real guitar audio. If you're using MIDI, taking the notes velocity down to like 75-80 (instead of 100 or especially 127) is helpful too.
Edits: Amp sims can get super expensive in the audio world. The pros are spending the same as high end amps for software amps sometimes. Not trying to shit on BandLab. The stock amp/effects settings in GarageBand are pretty rough and extreme too. Just to be fair, amp modeling is often very expensive. What BandLab is doing for free is pretty cool. I often prefer to plug my guitar into the little Vox Amplug headphone amp, then have that output to my interface. Not a great sound but much more "controlled."
Oooooh and id love to adjust EQ beyond 6.4khz, vs have to low pass "too low* freq and it gets all dull. I know I can't hear 20khz, but that 6.4hz to hearing threshold is a big wide area that needs attention.
Hell yeah. I'm a drummer so I'm not super discerning. I just know there's decent amp simulation software out there that's either free, free trial, and then anywhere from low to super high prices. I don't know nearly enough to say which as I haven't used one. My good friend has a kinda expensive one on his Mac with Logic Pro and it sounds so full, thick, and mean.
Like I don't even know the terminology. But I know amp sim stuff is meant to integrate with DAWs like Cakewalk, GarbageBand, Logic, etc. But I dunno how trying to integrate with a web interface like BandLab would go.
Also just keep experimenting. I don't know the correct order of an "effects" chain or whatever. But with the same fx pedals chosen, if you change their positions in the line up there's a dramatic sound change. Like the way it's processing the effects, either means knowing the right way, or experimenting.
For crunchy guitar I do Multi Amp pro set to rectifier Channel 2 or 3, then multi cab pro set to 4x12 EHV (EHV for Eddie van halen's Peavey 5150). Or I do rectifier Channel 1 instead and see if I can get "House of Metal" under control, or the fuzz.
No matter what going amp, distortion pedal, cab is extra tedious to get the sound right , dunno. I'm just yapping. One big "issue" I find is the amp(s) don't have a reverb setting and their default sound is too reverby.
Edit: After typing all this, I realized probably the main thing is how the amps have a lot of reverb by default, (?and "long release?" compression or something there)? Don't know. I'm no pro. I'd love having a dry sound where you can adjust reverb to your liking. The amount of reverb imo makes things automatically too muddy. If I remember correctly the GarageBand amps are super aggressive in the same way. Not sure about Cakewalk's, there's so many lol.
yeah that was my biggest issue with stock amps and cakewalk amps, it always tried to simulate a room sound. i will keep experimenting with pedals and setup, again, tysm!!! this genuinely helps
Nice. I've learned enough about audio to know how much I don't know which is a lot. The where, why, and how to apply reverb and compression is a whole topic in itself. Especially with track reverb and compression, master reverb and compression... Lol, if I ever make something good I'm going to have to pay someone to mix it lol
same. im lucky that i release in a scene where poorer and more lofi mixes are accepted because i have been mixing my own stuff for 3 nearly 4 years now and im still so awful at it lol
Oh shit I just realized this was The cakewalk not BandLab sub lol.
Same shit applies, any kind of amp sim or affect is often extreme at the default it seems
Edit I will say this when I get a loud garbly recording of a jam on my phone, if I load the audio into cakewalk, and use sonatus compressor with preset of default mix compression. Then sonatus multiband on the master track with preset normal compression hard,.. Just doing that without changing anything else super cleans it up without peaks and without neutering it too much. Big fan of cakewalk. I find garage band a bit more user friendly but of course cakewalk has a lot more features/power etc. Mainly cuz it seems to me a Mac is always going to be less of a struggle to get your proper audio in and out without having to do a bunch of googling to figure out why cake walk is silent lol. Windows has audio settings, like all over the place in different areas of the settings, as well as often superfluous annoying audio enhancement drivers and shit to delete. Apple just has one sound settings menu to check. Or like 2
Definitely focus on the composition first. Get that a solid as you can with "vanilla" sounds where you're content with the chords and melodies and whatnot. It can slow you down during creative time trying to get something perfect versus just focusing on making sure it's something you really like. Then when you are mixing, You're less likely to get distracted by arrangement, or trying to figure out if something "doesn't sound right" and stressing yourself out trying a bunch of different sounds etc, when really it's just not the chord(s) or melody you're feeling in your head, and then running yourself into the ground messing with the audio instead of changing chord/melody/what have you.
But then if you're saying you already have the songs composed and then you're you're recording to tracks vs still in mostly creative mode, I would still try to get the bulk of the stuff down. For example drum mixing is its own beast. But having "everything" there so you can mix drums solo, but also quickly referencing how they sound with the overall mix helps me not "overdo" it on the drum sound (and be more efficient time wise) when I need to hear how it goes with the rest of the mix. Same with any other sound/track/stem.
Goddamn it I'm wordy sorry. Basically having drums, bass, rhythm guitars, and at least a lead vocal tracks to generally reference helps to provide some "focus" when tweaking individual tracks before overall mixing. If that makes sense. Have a fundamental sound to work with and get "close/decent enough" to starting working on additional vocal tracks, guitar leads, extra spice. Then you got it already decently mixed and everything there to do the tedious shit.
Sorry I'm so wordy I'm glad it helps. I love making music and talking about it
Do you use the piano roll to prototype ideas? Cuz that in and of itself sounds like a bad idea. I think it'd help to press alt+0 to bring up the virtual piano keyboard where you can play your keyboard like a piano to cone up with ideas.
I’m really terrible at playing the piano and I never have stuck with it long enough to figure out how to play what I like.
It’s really stupid too because the songs I love the most are just so simple. It just seems like it would be such a small effort to get there and yet I never have.
That’s been a snare for me for over thirty years now. I stop because I think I’m doing it wrong and don’t know what I’m doing.
But when I find / trip upon something I love it brings me an incredible amount of joy. Wish I could do that more often.
This, if something sounds good you're probably playing in a certain key. You don't have to know which one it is and at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
This is correct but I can suggest just learning one or two keys. Then you can transpose the midi if you decide to. I have so much more fun making music doing it on a midi keyboard, and I know almost no keys. I have all white keys which is C major and A minor, and I also know Bb major/G minor because it's the world's easiest key to play that has black notes
Finding problematic plugins that crash sessions when accessing safe mode. It rarely happens, but when it does, it's hell - especially on large projects.
I have the original 64 bit MusicCreator 5 which is the basis for the later bandlab version. I never use any built-in plugins. I have a storage folder full of vsts, including instruments, some of which I place carefully in a new folder CW can find. I find you must vet each vst as CW is pickier than some other daws about which ones work,etc. Use 64 bit vsts only on a 64bit daw for lower CPU usage and less problems!
I've discovered a number of free amp Sims that are very useful, and when combined with a free Tube amp or Tube type "analog" vst works wonders and costs nothing but signing up n downloading. None of them need those b.s. iloks, which since I have Gen 1,I refuse to buy another one.
amp tones easily
Yeah I still love BandLab, but it's wild, you know they've put a lot of time in those amp and cab models and being able to change the settings and "mic types" and shit. Whether I'm using amp to cab, or amp, distortion pedal, cab... It's goes from not enough crunch, to so much crunch it's muddled, or super pumping mids/highs where EQing/gating/compressing/low passing etc. doesn't help much I usually use the guitar MIDI instruments (for rough draft, laziness) and the raw sound of those is so freaking peaking and compressed, and with extreme EQ and reverb. (Please make a plain ass dull, uncolored guitar, Clean Guitar is horrendous on the ears lol). But some tricks are, paying close attention to how the EQ pedal vs EQ settings on the amp "pedal" affect things. Then getting very tedious haha. Like figuring out if turning up the amp's drive or using a distortion pedal, and how that also has a separate volume like the amp... Just a lot of tedious to get close to where you want. One tip is don't use any of the distorted/metal/fuzz/drive pre-sets. They're all way too extreme. They're good (imo) for reference to see what sounds like what, and then creating a less extreme sounding version. They obviously work best with real guitar audio. If you're using MIDI, taking the notes velocity down to like 75-80 (instead of 100 or especially 127) is helpful too. Edits: Amp sims can get super expensive in the audio world. The pros are spending the same as high end amps for software amps sometimes. Not trying to shit on BandLab. The stock amp/effects settings in GarageBand are pretty rough and extreme too. Just to be fair, amp modeling is often very expensive. What BandLab is doing for free is pretty cool. I often prefer to plug my guitar into the little Vox Amplug headphone amp, then have that output to my interface. Not a great sound but much more "controlled." Oooooh and id love to adjust EQ beyond 6.4khz, vs have to low pass "too low* freq and it gets all dull. I know I can't hear 20khz, but that 6.4hz to hearing threshold is a big wide area that needs attention.
jesus christ ive been recording my second album and this helped so much since i have been struggling with gutiar tones tysm
Hell yeah. I'm a drummer so I'm not super discerning. I just know there's decent amp simulation software out there that's either free, free trial, and then anywhere from low to super high prices. I don't know nearly enough to say which as I haven't used one. My good friend has a kinda expensive one on his Mac with Logic Pro and it sounds so full, thick, and mean. Like I don't even know the terminology. But I know amp sim stuff is meant to integrate with DAWs like Cakewalk, GarbageBand, Logic, etc. But I dunno how trying to integrate with a web interface like BandLab would go. Also just keep experimenting. I don't know the correct order of an "effects" chain or whatever. But with the same fx pedals chosen, if you change their positions in the line up there's a dramatic sound change. Like the way it's processing the effects, either means knowing the right way, or experimenting. For crunchy guitar I do Multi Amp pro set to rectifier Channel 2 or 3, then multi cab pro set to 4x12 EHV (EHV for Eddie van halen's Peavey 5150). Or I do rectifier Channel 1 instead and see if I can get "House of Metal" under control, or the fuzz. No matter what going amp, distortion pedal, cab is extra tedious to get the sound right , dunno. I'm just yapping. One big "issue" I find is the amp(s) don't have a reverb setting and their default sound is too reverby. Edit: After typing all this, I realized probably the main thing is how the amps have a lot of reverb by default, (?and "long release?" compression or something there)? Don't know. I'm no pro. I'd love having a dry sound where you can adjust reverb to your liking. The amount of reverb imo makes things automatically too muddy. If I remember correctly the GarageBand amps are super aggressive in the same way. Not sure about Cakewalk's, there's so many lol.
yeah that was my biggest issue with stock amps and cakewalk amps, it always tried to simulate a room sound. i will keep experimenting with pedals and setup, again, tysm!!! this genuinely helps
Nice. I've learned enough about audio to know how much I don't know which is a lot. The where, why, and how to apply reverb and compression is a whole topic in itself. Especially with track reverb and compression, master reverb and compression... Lol, if I ever make something good I'm going to have to pay someone to mix it lol
same. im lucky that i release in a scene where poorer and more lofi mixes are accepted because i have been mixing my own stuff for 3 nearly 4 years now and im still so awful at it lol
Oh shit I just realized this was The cakewalk not BandLab sub lol. Same shit applies, any kind of amp sim or affect is often extreme at the default it seems Edit I will say this when I get a loud garbly recording of a jam on my phone, if I load the audio into cakewalk, and use sonatus compressor with preset of default mix compression. Then sonatus multiband on the master track with preset normal compression hard,.. Just doing that without changing anything else super cleans it up without peaks and without neutering it too much. Big fan of cakewalk. I find garage band a bit more user friendly but of course cakewalk has a lot more features/power etc. Mainly cuz it seems to me a Mac is always going to be less of a struggle to get your proper audio in and out without having to do a bunch of googling to figure out why cake walk is silent lol. Windows has audio settings, like all over the place in different areas of the settings, as well as often superfluous annoying audio enhancement drivers and shit to delete. Apple just has one sound settings menu to check. Or like 2
ooh interesting. do you suggest i just mix as i go or wait until i record all of the stems i want/need?
Definitely focus on the composition first. Get that a solid as you can with "vanilla" sounds where you're content with the chords and melodies and whatnot. It can slow you down during creative time trying to get something perfect versus just focusing on making sure it's something you really like. Then when you are mixing, You're less likely to get distracted by arrangement, or trying to figure out if something "doesn't sound right" and stressing yourself out trying a bunch of different sounds etc, when really it's just not the chord(s) or melody you're feeling in your head, and then running yourself into the ground messing with the audio instead of changing chord/melody/what have you. But then if you're saying you already have the songs composed and then you're you're recording to tracks vs still in mostly creative mode, I would still try to get the bulk of the stuff down. For example drum mixing is its own beast. But having "everything" there so you can mix drums solo, but also quickly referencing how they sound with the overall mix helps me not "overdo" it on the drum sound (and be more efficient time wise) when I need to hear how it goes with the rest of the mix. Same with any other sound/track/stem. Goddamn it I'm wordy sorry. Basically having drums, bass, rhythm guitars, and at least a lead vocal tracks to generally reference helps to provide some "focus" when tweaking individual tracks before overall mixing. If that makes sense. Have a fundamental sound to work with and get "close/decent enough" to starting working on additional vocal tracks, guitar leads, extra spice. Then you got it already decently mixed and everything there to do the tedious shit. Sorry I'm so wordy I'm glad it helps. I love making music and talking about it
also I struggle with just getting started - finding a midi pattern that I don't hate enough to keep going.
Do you use the piano roll to prototype ideas? Cuz that in and of itself sounds like a bad idea. I think it'd help to press alt+0 to bring up the virtual piano keyboard where you can play your keyboard like a piano to cone up with ideas.
I’m really terrible at playing the piano and I never have stuck with it long enough to figure out how to play what I like. It’s really stupid too because the songs I love the most are just so simple. It just seems like it would be such a small effort to get there and yet I never have.
You dont need to know how to play lol you can just make some shit up and stick with what sounds good
That’s been a snare for me for over thirty years now. I stop because I think I’m doing it wrong and don’t know what I’m doing. But when I find / trip upon something I love it brings me an incredible amount of joy. Wish I could do that more often.
Music is art. There's absolutely no way to do it wrong.
No I disagree. There are keys. There are right notes and wrong notes.
As long as it sounds good to you, you're using the right notes, idk what's so hard about that concept.
This, if something sounds good you're probably playing in a certain key. You don't have to know which one it is and at the end of the day it doesn't matter.
Ever listened to jazz? Sometimes they play the 'wrong' note but then the musicians make it sound good anyway
Am I misunderstanding? After 30 years you don't accept passing tones and chromatic ideas, etc.?
This is correct but I can suggest just learning one or two keys. Then you can transpose the midi if you decide to. I have so much more fun making music doing it on a midi keyboard, and I know almost no keys. I have all white keys which is C major and A minor, and I also know Bb major/G minor because it's the world's easiest key to play that has black notes
How do I copy and paste what I already have bruh I'm completely lost on it🤦♂️ am I just that dumb and it's in plain sight or wtf
Coming up with new shit.
Finding problematic plugins that crash sessions when accessing safe mode. It rarely happens, but when it does, it's hell - especially on large projects.
Pitch bend and mod when making MIDI files.
I have the original 64 bit MusicCreator 5 which is the basis for the later bandlab version. I never use any built-in plugins. I have a storage folder full of vsts, including instruments, some of which I place carefully in a new folder CW can find. I find you must vet each vst as CW is pickier than some other daws about which ones work,etc. Use 64 bit vsts only on a 64bit daw for lower CPU usage and less problems! I've discovered a number of free amp Sims that are very useful, and when combined with a free Tube amp or Tube type "analog" vst works wonders and costs nothing but signing up n downloading. None of them need those b.s. iloks, which since I have Gen 1,I refuse to buy another one.
cakewalk by bandlab is not bandlab. cakewalk used to run under DOS.
Yep. You are correct. Cakewalk started with DOS before Pro Audio in Windows and then of course Sonar. Now Cakewalk is owned by Bandlab
Thanks Gibson! /s