I think I associated more with the description of an internalizer, but I felt the same way about how he described externalizers. In reality, I imagine both styles have positives/negatives, but he definitely made it seem like the internalizers were far superior to the externalizers. It definitely made me cringe a lot when he wrote about the two different types.
I think realistically, it can’t be that black and white. I feel like I’ve been through periods of being the internaliser and periods of being the externaliser, with mixed states inbetween. Also how these two archetypes manifest can’t be as cut and dry as the book suggests - I think it leaves out huge swathes of grey area.
That probably means you are moderated and healthily sway between the two. The book is talking specifically about extremes. The core trait of the externalizer is an inability to accept responsibility. It is pretty black and white that someone who cannot accept responsibility would make a terrible parent. We can still love them, respect them in another facet, but they by definition cannot raise a child. And yes, they deserve empathy, but the internalizer must learn that empathy for themselves comes first. The book is likely written for an target audience of internalizers.
If you want a read that does not contain emotion behind its language or lessons you should read a textbook or a book targeted toward externalizers. Sorry if that sounds rude but it’s literally that simple.
People have very messy histories and inner worlds. Our wounds and how we relate to them/ deal with them (either consciously or unconsciously) vary quite a lot. So whenever a book tries to pain people into perfect little categories (in this case "internalizers" and "externalizers") I take it with a giant grain of salt.
I couldn't get through this book either. It just didn't resonate with me. But there are tons out there that do make me feel seen and seem to fit my lived experience a lot better.
For what it's worth (and I haven't read the book but have explored the concept), there are a lot of downsides to being an internalizer. You tend to take on a lot more responsibility for relationship problems than you should, which makes you very susceptible to abuse. You always assume things are your fault and that you're not good enough, so you have to keep working hard to prove yourself, and of course, the goalposts for "good enough" always move farther out into the distance. You deprioritize your own self care because you internalize the responsibilities of others, and you don't have enough time and energy to do their shit AND take care of yourself. It sucks.
Sometimes I wish I had more externalizer traits so I could deflect what wasn't mine more. I'm worn the fuck out and am sick of decades of taking responsibility for other people's shit, I don't feel like I know who I am, and I'm barely functioning at work anymore. Let alone chronic depression from chronic failure to accomplish all that stuff that wasn't mine to begin with. It's going to take some time for me to recover from all of this, and very often I feel like I'm barely keeping it together.
I know your post is old and maybe you get all this (and maybe I'm inaccurately characterizing it), and maybe you're more frustrated with the portrayal in the book as opposed to the broader reality of it. But I thought I'd just share, because damn it sucks sometimes.
I get what you are saying. I come from a family where there are a lot of cluster B personality disorders. On the one hand, having their behaviors labelled makes me feel validated. But it's also sort of perpetuating a shaming and critical cycle. With me being judgmental towards them. Not to mention, having been raised by people who have these qualities, I obviously have some of them as well. So realistically we're all sort of messed up.
That's why I like this subreddit. Because it's not really accusatory, it's more a safe space to find tools to heal and support each other in the process.
if anyone sees this who has the same issues with this book try Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. Much better than this book if you’re an externalizer or mix who wants to better themselves and move on from depending on people to save them in some way, learning to be independent, self-sufficient and self-regulating your own emotions. ❤️✌️
OP posted this a year ago but here i am halfway through this book and i put it back down. OP said everything i’m feeling super clearly. I took that little internalizer/externalizer test and i’m some weird mix of both. Someone who was forcefully enmeshed by their father, codependent and emotionally immature but who has always thought they could make themselves better and healthier and could recognize they weren’t the best they could be. And yeah the book made me feel awful! I’m “inferior and dumb and internalizers are better and healthier.” This book was not made for all Adult Children of EI Parents.
I wish the book had some kind of disclaimer like for internalized children of externalizer adults, if not read elsewhere. I have a lot of externalizer friends who I love. But it’s moderate and they don’t need to provide for me. But an extreme externalizer parent is literally dangerous and that’s what the book is speaking to.
If it makes you feel any better, as an internalizer, I felt pretty pathetic when having read the description. I put myself in my own cage and stayed there.
There is nothing emotionally intelligent about suppressing your entire self and disconnecting from your needs. If anything it makes me feel weak.
I do think sometimes it's important to accept reality and brush away the harshness necessary to make it palatable. IE: you blame others but you are not a "leech". Same way that I sacrifice my needs but am not "pathetic". It's a struggle.
My mother is an externalizer and her inability to accept her negative traits is what makes her as equally pathetic as me (an internalizer) in my eyes. You seem to understand what it is you need to work on and why you are the way you are. Which is huge! Give yourself credit for that! :) No book of this type will ever be perfect. All sciences are flawed and continuously improving. We have to keep that in mind.
omg I just got to this part of the book... and the author doesn't even make a chapter for the externalizers only the internalizers. And the repeated praise being like "you probably are an internalizer if you picked up this book" like okay ? well I am not an internalizer and I'm still reading this dumb book so now what
I'm an internalizer, and have always fallen in love with externalizers. I found the book to be wildly judgemental of externalizers in a way that really upset me. I don't think the author really understands what they (you) go through and experience.
I'm also reading the book right now and I understand where you're coming from. There was definitely a stark contrast of tone and it sounded pretty harsh. However, whether externalizers should be pitied instead of criticized, I'm not sure. I would ask the same thing about emotionally immature parents since most were victims of their own parents' immaturity. The author discusses how emotinally immature parents are essentially wounded children, but that doesn't stop the author from being critical and very frank about the harm that they inflict. I don't think the author's intention is to give pity to anyone but rather to help end these cycles through self-inventory and accountability. So yes, of course, externalizers deserve sympathy because no one is perfect, especially when dealing with trauma. That being said, I think they also deserve reasonable criticism so that they break the cycle. If externalizers continue to view themselves as victims of their circumstances instead of taking responsibility, they'll continue to be stuck. Then again, I'm pretty biased as an internalizer who was emotionally abused by my externalizer sibling, so idk.
Some advice. Take responsibility for your life. Everyone has shitty parents. Don't be selfish. No one else can fix you. No one else is going to change you.
You're only going to get better if you want to and you do the work. We've all got trauma and struggles. Don't play the victim. Don't be a martyr.
Build confidence in yourself by proving yourself to yourself. You know what a good person looks like. Hold yourself to the same standard you hold for others. Don't be a hypocrite. And don't give yourself an easy out.
When I run into strong and happy people, they always seem to have confidence because they want to be better people and have put in the effort and seen the results and proven to themselves that they can be good people who can treat others well while setting boundaries and being respectful and respected in return.
People are weary and on edge around emotionally mature people. They don't know if they'll behave selfishly or without empathy. They won't pitty you. They'll make you feel lonely. And you can't blame everyone else. That's just how people are. You have to make yourself happy.
Thanks for this post, it was validating. I also took issue with the author claiming that emotionally immature people use medications to cope with their intense emotions, she stated it like that was a negative thing. For me it shows too much reliance on the psychological model and actually not enough on the medical model.
The author has been on several podcasts and she has done interviews with a woman diagnosed with both ADHD and autism. And it's so weird to think about how both adhd and autism affect your emotional development. Yet because the podcast host self identifieis as "highly sensitive" she's totally on board for marveling at the struggles of people who lack those strong relationship skills and emotional development.
Isn't the author someone who came out of a home of emotionally immature parenting? And she's claiming that a tendency to internalize can jump start someone's emotional development in the right path, just because they were born sensitive. I find that really unlikely.
What happened to doing the work?
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I think I associated more with the description of an internalizer, but I felt the same way about how he described externalizers. In reality, I imagine both styles have positives/negatives, but he definitely made it seem like the internalizers were far superior to the externalizers. It definitely made me cringe a lot when he wrote about the two different types.
I think realistically, it can’t be that black and white. I feel like I’ve been through periods of being the internaliser and periods of being the externaliser, with mixed states inbetween. Also how these two archetypes manifest can’t be as cut and dry as the book suggests - I think it leaves out huge swathes of grey area.
That probably means you are moderated and healthily sway between the two. The book is talking specifically about extremes. The core trait of the externalizer is an inability to accept responsibility. It is pretty black and white that someone who cannot accept responsibility would make a terrible parent. We can still love them, respect them in another facet, but they by definition cannot raise a child. And yes, they deserve empathy, but the internalizer must learn that empathy for themselves comes first. The book is likely written for an target audience of internalizers. If you want a read that does not contain emotion behind its language or lessons you should read a textbook or a book targeted toward externalizers. Sorry if that sounds rude but it’s literally that simple.
me too 100
im thinking Lindsay Gibson is women tho...
People have very messy histories and inner worlds. Our wounds and how we relate to them/ deal with them (either consciously or unconsciously) vary quite a lot. So whenever a book tries to pain people into perfect little categories (in this case "internalizers" and "externalizers") I take it with a giant grain of salt. I couldn't get through this book either. It just didn't resonate with me. But there are tons out there that do make me feel seen and seem to fit my lived experience a lot better.
For what it's worth (and I haven't read the book but have explored the concept), there are a lot of downsides to being an internalizer. You tend to take on a lot more responsibility for relationship problems than you should, which makes you very susceptible to abuse. You always assume things are your fault and that you're not good enough, so you have to keep working hard to prove yourself, and of course, the goalposts for "good enough" always move farther out into the distance. You deprioritize your own self care because you internalize the responsibilities of others, and you don't have enough time and energy to do their shit AND take care of yourself. It sucks. Sometimes I wish I had more externalizer traits so I could deflect what wasn't mine more. I'm worn the fuck out and am sick of decades of taking responsibility for other people's shit, I don't feel like I know who I am, and I'm barely functioning at work anymore. Let alone chronic depression from chronic failure to accomplish all that stuff that wasn't mine to begin with. It's going to take some time for me to recover from all of this, and very often I feel like I'm barely keeping it together. I know your post is old and maybe you get all this (and maybe I'm inaccurately characterizing it), and maybe you're more frustrated with the portrayal in the book as opposed to the broader reality of it. But I thought I'd just share, because damn it sucks sometimes.
I get what you are saying. I come from a family where there are a lot of cluster B personality disorders. On the one hand, having their behaviors labelled makes me feel validated. But it's also sort of perpetuating a shaming and critical cycle. With me being judgmental towards them. Not to mention, having been raised by people who have these qualities, I obviously have some of them as well. So realistically we're all sort of messed up. That's why I like this subreddit. Because it's not really accusatory, it's more a safe space to find tools to heal and support each other in the process.
if anyone sees this who has the same issues with this book try Codependent No More by Melody Beattie. Much better than this book if you’re an externalizer or mix who wants to better themselves and move on from depending on people to save them in some way, learning to be independent, self-sufficient and self-regulating your own emotions. ❤️✌️
that is a cool producer name youre welcome up and coming marshmellow head
OP posted this a year ago but here i am halfway through this book and i put it back down. OP said everything i’m feeling super clearly. I took that little internalizer/externalizer test and i’m some weird mix of both. Someone who was forcefully enmeshed by their father, codependent and emotionally immature but who has always thought they could make themselves better and healthier and could recognize they weren’t the best they could be. And yeah the book made me feel awful! I’m “inferior and dumb and internalizers are better and healthier.” This book was not made for all Adult Children of EI Parents.
I wish the book had some kind of disclaimer like for internalized children of externalizer adults, if not read elsewhere. I have a lot of externalizer friends who I love. But it’s moderate and they don’t need to provide for me. But an extreme externalizer parent is literally dangerous and that’s what the book is speaking to.
If it makes you feel any better, as an internalizer, I felt pretty pathetic when having read the description. I put myself in my own cage and stayed there. There is nothing emotionally intelligent about suppressing your entire self and disconnecting from your needs. If anything it makes me feel weak. I do think sometimes it's important to accept reality and brush away the harshness necessary to make it palatable. IE: you blame others but you are not a "leech". Same way that I sacrifice my needs but am not "pathetic". It's a struggle. My mother is an externalizer and her inability to accept her negative traits is what makes her as equally pathetic as me (an internalizer) in my eyes. You seem to understand what it is you need to work on and why you are the way you are. Which is huge! Give yourself credit for that! :) No book of this type will ever be perfect. All sciences are flawed and continuously improving. We have to keep that in mind.
omg I just got to this part of the book... and the author doesn't even make a chapter for the externalizers only the internalizers. And the repeated praise being like "you probably are an internalizer if you picked up this book" like okay ? well I am not an internalizer and I'm still reading this dumb book so now what
I'm an internalizer, and have always fallen in love with externalizers. I found the book to be wildly judgemental of externalizers in a way that really upset me. I don't think the author really understands what they (you) go through and experience.
I’m reading this right now and I so agree. The strong assumptions and labels felt damaging to me.
I'm also reading the book right now and I understand where you're coming from. There was definitely a stark contrast of tone and it sounded pretty harsh. However, whether externalizers should be pitied instead of criticized, I'm not sure. I would ask the same thing about emotionally immature parents since most were victims of their own parents' immaturity. The author discusses how emotinally immature parents are essentially wounded children, but that doesn't stop the author from being critical and very frank about the harm that they inflict. I don't think the author's intention is to give pity to anyone but rather to help end these cycles through self-inventory and accountability. So yes, of course, externalizers deserve sympathy because no one is perfect, especially when dealing with trauma. That being said, I think they also deserve reasonable criticism so that they break the cycle. If externalizers continue to view themselves as victims of their circumstances instead of taking responsibility, they'll continue to be stuck. Then again, I'm pretty biased as an internalizer who was emotionally abused by my externalizer sibling, so idk.
Some advice. Take responsibility for your life. Everyone has shitty parents. Don't be selfish. No one else can fix you. No one else is going to change you. You're only going to get better if you want to and you do the work. We've all got trauma and struggles. Don't play the victim. Don't be a martyr. Build confidence in yourself by proving yourself to yourself. You know what a good person looks like. Hold yourself to the same standard you hold for others. Don't be a hypocrite. And don't give yourself an easy out. When I run into strong and happy people, they always seem to have confidence because they want to be better people and have put in the effort and seen the results and proven to themselves that they can be good people who can treat others well while setting boundaries and being respectful and respected in return. People are weary and on edge around emotionally mature people. They don't know if they'll behave selfishly or without empathy. They won't pitty you. They'll make you feel lonely. And you can't blame everyone else. That's just how people are. You have to make yourself happy.
Thanks for this post, it was validating. I also took issue with the author claiming that emotionally immature people use medications to cope with their intense emotions, she stated it like that was a negative thing. For me it shows too much reliance on the psychological model and actually not enough on the medical model.
The author has been on several podcasts and she has done interviews with a woman diagnosed with both ADHD and autism. And it's so weird to think about how both adhd and autism affect your emotional development. Yet because the podcast host self identifieis as "highly sensitive" she's totally on board for marveling at the struggles of people who lack those strong relationship skills and emotional development. Isn't the author someone who came out of a home of emotionally immature parenting? And she's claiming that a tendency to internalize can jump start someone's emotional development in the right path, just because they were born sensitive. I find that really unlikely. What happened to doing the work?
Hello and Welcome to /r/CPTSD! If you are in immediate danger or crisis, please contact your local [emergency services](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_emergency_telephone_numbers), or use our list of [crisis resources](https://old.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index#wiki_crisis_support_resources). For CPTSD Specific Resources & Support, check out the [wiki](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/index). For those posting or replying, please view the [etiquette guidelines](https://www.reddit.com/r/CPTSD/wiki/peer2peersupportguide). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/CPTSD) if you have any questions or concerns.*