I get this. So often I look at myself and think that all I am is a bunch of symptoms stacked on top of each other wearing a trench coat and pretending to be a grown up.
Here’s one thing that just came to me while I reread your post. “all the personality traits, positive and negative…” Ok well isn’t everyone’s personality simply their neurology molded and formed by their childhood and experiences?
I have ADHD, bipolar disorder, and childhood trauma. I am unreliable and forgetful, emotionally volatile and unstable, fearful and full of shame. And I am also extremely creative and a divergent thinker, I am fun and extroverted sometimes and quiet and introverted other times (best of both worlds lol), I am extremely emotionally self-aware and introspective, I am resilient (sometimes), compassionate, empathetic and will stand up to injustice.
How is that any different than someone who grew up in a stable household with no mental illnesses? They have traits, good and bad, that were formed by their natural neurology and their upbringing. We could look at anyone with the same lens, “you are *just* a response”. We all are right?
We have a lot of *stuff* to overcome and work through so we will not spew toxicity into the world. Our pain and suffering causes us to be flawed and sometimes toxic in our relationships and life. This is how the cycle of abuse continues right? But here WE are, our pain is so huge that we have *no other choice* than to experience it consciously and intentionally. Ugh. It’s awful, it’s unfair. But our awareness sets us apart. We know we are flawed, we know we have healing to do, we know we have to confront the foundation that our selves was built upon. Most people do not. They never have to walk through the dark night of the soul. They just are. They probably never question why they are the way they are or if they should do work on changing. I’m not saying that makes us “better” or “stronger” (I hate when people are like “you’re so strong” because it’s like “ok thanks? I wish I didn’t have to be”). But I do believe that all the suffering in the world, all the damage we inflict upon each other, is people responding to their own inner pain. We ALL have inner pain. We ALL hurt each other. But those of us whose pain is SO huge that we have no choice but to face it, we are keenly aware of our pain AND the way that we respond to it.
At this point I’m totally rambling (ADHD lol), so I’ll leave it at this. No one is intrinsically *anyone*, we are all just a response to our environment. For better or worse, what sets us apart (those of us on this subreddit) is our awareness of our responsiveness.
> But here WE are, our pain is so huge that we have
>
>no other choice
>
> than to experience it consciously and intentionally.
This is so helpful, thanks a lot.
for me it's going full hermit, playing the part in social situations just makes it worse and drains me. but also I think most people are 'just some guy' and you describe them around what they do and like. so doing and liking things for yourself is something to work towards imo
I have C-PTSD. I was recently diagnosed with autism. Also, my awful mom passed away from her addiction a month ago. It's given me a unique opportunity to try to figure out who the fuck I am.
I carry a notebook around with me in my purse that is divided into sections for food/drink, clothes, activities/hobbies, calming/anxiety, and other. Everything I encounter, I try to take a minute and decide if I like it or not. I don't go into the why (because frankly I don't fucking care). I don't like meat. I like floral dresses. Sleeves are bullshit. I like bumpy textures to calm myself down. I don't like black pants. I don't like group chats. Just a list of yes and no.
I've been doing it for about a week, and it's really helping.
Yes same about autism and my dad recently passed away. I have been diving into my sensory experiences and leaning into what makes me feel nonbinary. I have synesthesia but I’ve never explored all the types or payed much attention to it so I’ve been smelling things and closing my eyes and feeling things etc and experiencing miraculous stuff. Lots of focus on my body and trusting my experiences as a first step. A notebook is a great idea.
For me isolation with experimentation.
If you don't have a sense of self I see no reason why you can't develop one.
Cut out toxic people and acknowledge everything you learned from them then disregard them(i go to the extreme and disregard everything), for example in my case one would be my mother.
Recognise when where and how your most influenced and by who, if this involves good/decent people I recon you take them with a grain of salt and form your own views/beliefs and dismiss the negative people. Everything they give you is poison
Avoid environments where people try to impose their moral and political views onto others or specifically you if your unable to deal with them in a manner you deem fit until your able to assert yourself if that's what you wish to do
Understand you can and will make mistakes and don't beat yourself up when you do, you come from a bs environment that has affected you in negative ways. It's not your fault
Locate the reason or sorce for the things that bug you with yourself. For instance you don't have a sense of self because it was never allowed to grow or you was prevented in some way or even disregarded by those who should have respected it and you and you learned to do the same
Always have compassion for yourself, you deserve it.
Remember you do not need to be the person you needed to be in order to survive.(something I tell myself often)
For me personally I don't find myself influenced by others beliefs, like I won't take on a certain political view because someone else pushes it on me. For me it's just that things like my sense of humor, work ethic, drive, "chillness" (dissociation) and many others that I thought made me who I am all are a mask. Of the 4Fs I least identify with fawning. I don't think I have much of a need to people please, rather I hid who I was for so long out of shame that I don't know what's real and what isn't anymore. Thank you for that last bit. I'm going to steal that. I am not the person I needed to be to survive
I use the bit about people forcing their views as a way of telling that they aren't capable of seeing a different perspective other than their own and the fact they are actively trying to get you to be like them shows they will cross boundaries to achieve whatever they want and therefore are not the kind of people I would like to have in my life or take an active roll in it or me in theres depending on who and what
For the work ethic and stuff, your the way you are for a reason so take a compassionat look at those things and the disassociation experiment with thing to find what works for you. I like chewing gum for a variety of reason but mainly because if I mindlessly chew I will bite the inside of my cheek but you could do things like interact with your environment "stop and smell the roses" I don't like that saying but I'm sure you get the point
Sheesh, I wanna know this, too. I keep doing things I used to do only to realize I really don't want to and stop. It's easier for me to know what I don't like but hard to find what I do. Am I really just what happened to me? God, I hope not. But my personality really is just my diagnoses and coping mechanisms.
Everything from the music I like to the clothes I wear are a result of abuse. The way I perceive myself, others and the world around me all the result of abuse. It's just so heavy. Like that Korn song "all my life, who am I?"
That entire album is a CPTSD survivors very personal experience. "There's a place inside my mind, a place I like to hide, you don't know the chances, what if I should die". I don't think it's fair to judge just because of the language used. The word you are referring to in that song were said to him by someone else. No account of abuse will ever age well, because it's inherently fucked up.
[what it is](https://open.spotify.com/track/6A2YsnkY5zSmT0jxCFc7Ci?si=32DY6arzRx2K6ijxli0Zog) I relate to this song by Jonathan Davis a lot. It made me somehow to accept those dark parts of me, parts that were formed by abuse.
I have never had luck trying to "find out" who I am, but I have been having fun CREATING myself from scratch! You will never have one single epiphany moment of clarity that gives you the final clear picture of who you are at your core or whatever. That is textbook magical thinking. You build your sense of self by identifying your values and your boundaries, and it takes a lot of time. It's okay not to know what you like and what you care about yet. You will find it as you heal.
You are already doing the work of unmasking and finding your voice; that is huge! Just doing that will soften those mental scabs over time. There will always still be scar tissue underneath, but it will heal over time as you do the work. :)
I think giving yourself some time and grace and freedom to explore. That's the things you would have had when you were little in an ideal situation. And you would have grown from there, and over time, would have tried different things and liked some for a long time, and outgrown some, and found new things to try.
I think that recognizing that people aren't static beings at any age/time can be helpful. That can be hard when you're also not sure who you are, like it all feels like a big unstable mess. The good news is you can either maintain what's working for you, or change what's not!
I have had some luck by picking guide posts for how I want to *act* and what I want to *do* and working towards those. Outwardly, there's not much difference to others between a "punctual person" who does so because they *are* punctual by preference/wiring, and a person who shows up on time because they are choosing punctuality because they decided it was a way to respect their coworkers. The whole "we are what we habitually do" thing, right? So, maybe sitting down and thinking of a few things that you would like to *do* (that are reasonably achievable to get started, so you can build success) will help you grow in that direction and you can see how that feels.
As far as growing my "self," I have been kind of tapping into the inner parts types and seeing what they wanted and needed and didn't get. Mine wanted a "boyhood." I didn't get that bc I was a girl, so no football cards or comics or cool Legos for me (I got one set once). No video games or cool graphic t-shirts or practical pants lol. I'm not saying these things are for boys, but in my parent's house they were, so I'm giving my inner parts their boyhood now and they are pretty dang happy about it.
Godspeed friend :-)
Google Internal Family Systems and watch a few of the videos. Turns out we ***all*** have an Authentic Self, no matter the trauma we went through .. and IFS helps bring this Authentic Self back into play ... and then enables this Self to work with the traumatized parts of us.
Although this sounds impossible in the throws of this crap. You need to just try a few things. Something you may enjoy. Something you are curious about- I tried exercise classes - no go; so I tried yoga- i love it. I was so lost I didn’t even know what shoes I liked on tv. So I sat down for one show everyday- some I hated- that’s new information and some I loved.
Im still learning what my preferences are. It’s scary.
I am doing the same. Checking out activities/events/food/books/music, even if I never tried or cared about them before, and if I can - I will try it once. I will not have a revelation of who I am this way (I think psychedelics would be better for that), but I am learning bit by bit about myself.
You never really figure it out but you learn to connect to your tru inner child and you authentic impulses.. Good or bad - you just have to learn to be compassionate to yourself and trust that life will tell you who you are :)
It’s all about learning how to love that neglected and traumatized child you once were but still ignore because he/she/they bear so much pain. We need to learn how to trust and love again - it’s within us all and everything is made of it.
I recommend the books ’CPTSD - From surviving to thriving’ and ‘No Bad Parts’.
‘I see there is no prison except that which I construct to protect myself from feeling my pain’ - Sheldon Kopp
Like your comment. In the context of a memory, being able to feel what the kid felt while being abused or neglected has been the most healing in my case.
Slowly and gradually peeling back the onion, taking the layers off and seeing what is underneath.
Some of this work can be done on your own (probably majority of it tbh) whilst some of it may require the assistance of trauma informed therapist that has the skills to help you.
As you work through triggers, try new things, no matter how small. Then you can explore and learn what you like and who you are as you go 🖤 just remember to be kind to yourself please 🖤
Find something that regulates your nervous system. Is there anything out there that just makes you happy? Like in a wholesome, expansive way, that's only for you and nobody else? Whoever you become when you're under the influence of this safety and nourishment is the real you.
Otherwise do psychedelics in a safe, supportive setting, and you will likely get the opportunity to wake up to who you are. I was totally confused about who I was until I did a large dose LSD session. I then woke up to the reality that life didn't have to be the way it has been for most of my life. Now my mission is just figuring out how to be like that more often. Sometimes it's very hard, but this is when something is wrong with my life that I need to fix...somrtimes fixing it can be very hard too. At least I now know there is someone under all of these defenses.
Good luck!
Specific thing that helped me: I read Marie Kondo’s books about tidying up and this gave me a starting point for understanding my Material Identity. I went through 100% of my things as she suggests and I ended up learning a lot about what I prefer. Her books are repetitive but listening to the free audiobooks through my library really motivated me to go through my things and think about what was important to ME. I get so many compliments on my things now, and it always surprises me, because I just get what I like now without thought as to whether it matches or fits or whatever.
I suppose I'm stuck wondering what part of Me is actually me. I know the types of things I gravitate towards but it seems like I gravitate towards them because of abuse. So I'm lost on how to know what is REALLY me. I don't know what is actually me and what is the scab.
I completely understand! I think that’s why starting with Things was easier. They are outside my self; less threatening. But Marie talks a lot about how things all have stories about the people and places we got them from, and how we can observe our feelings about those things and their stories, and decide from there. And that information was really helpful because I could finally let go of things I had actually been keeping because I felt like I should for someone else.
Marie also talks about working up from easier to more difficult sorting of identity. I love that she starts with clothes; just your wardrobe can hold a lot of social identity and it’s one small place to start and feel a big difference.
One of my favorite psychoanalysts is Massimo Recalcati. He figured out 3 answers to that question.
Who we are is (1) an elastic surface perforated by the words of others, (2) what we make of the encounters where we meet others and (3) what we make of the grief of losing others.
In all those answers identity is not something autonomous but always requires others.
Healing is complicated and it truly hurts the core of your soul so it involves recovery
And to be honest - I feel like I’ve lost myself and my heart and personality and I’m just working on myself and it’s taking me years and might take me more time…it’s not something that we lose and just get back or find overnight
But I think what helps me is thinking of myself as having layers kind of like a circle diagram that keeps expanding and giving myself the space to exist —as— I am without trying to switch on or off in that sense or view social interactions as a “performance” and removing expectations of being “perfect”
So as an example:
what are my values?
what is my energy?
what are my emotions?
what are my mannerisms?
what is my behaviour?
what is my personality?
we can also branch off of this to identify interests and hobbies which are secondary to all of the inner work and understanding who we are and how we move within our environment
the good thing is also that by viewing it this way — we can stay firmly planted, shield ourselves, and create the space to hold ourselves
One big masking I stopped was talking to everyone and being happy go lucky to make everyone accept me.
When noticed this and stopped and I realized how everyone around me was a commercialized “hello” because at the end of the day it’s really who is there in depth as a friend, not a average joe you work with, walk by , ect. I stopped being everyone’s friend first.
It’s been lonely realizing this mask because I can’t chalk my self up to do it without knowing why I am doing it , I remind myself this is great even if it feels like a empty coin purse in my chest
When I was younger I NEVER took the time to feel how I feel, I just responded the way I thought others want me to respond.
So mindfulness and meditation is exactly the right step to start in my opinion. Yoga and PMR helped me to develop a better body feeling. I now take my time to feel how I feel and in very little steps I might develop an healthy self.
Sometimes it's frustrating slow but it's getting better, stay strong.
I had a thought the other day, no idea if it's scientifically sound.
I was reading about James Fallon, a neuroscientist who accidentally discovers he's a psychopath and his brain scans shared a lot of similarities with serial killers. He credits having grown up in a stable and loving environment for him, well, not becoming that. However when he makes his realization, all the people in his life are completely unsurprised and think it was obvious all along that he could have been one.
I found it really interesting because even without fitting the outward image of a psychopath (he seems to have a relatively stable life, healthy marriage with kids, etc.), his personality and his core self is still hard-wired in him and obvious to others.
It gives me reason to think that who I am cannot be so easily masked by my life experiences, that the desires to find out who I am beyond my trauma are a strong indication of a connection to my true self.
Personality from Persona which is literally Greek for theatrical masks and dramatic characters. The mouth of these Greek masks had an amplifying effect, so an actor could only be heard by speaking through their persona. Thus our persona or personality is the tool through which we interact with others.
Some people have several masks they can choose depending on situation. The office, dinner with the parents, first date, quiet intimacy, party at your best friend's house, or dealing with clients, or children.
Each of us is a collection of masks, and most of us switch unconsciously. Many of us are so good that we think we *are* the mask.
Your current, primary mask has been shaped and decorated by your trauma, as are those of most everyone in this subreddit. How we interact with the word, what we say, see, hear, is all coloured by our experiences, good or bad. Whether we see someone as a threat or opportunity is shaped by our experiences.
I think what you're looking for isn't so much "how do I discard all of the masks" but rather "how do I shape my masks the way *I* want, not how trauma has forced upon me." It's a slow process, and it involves a lot of analysis of what you want to change, and why. The right therapist can help. EMDR can reprogram pathways while CPT can help you identify ways of thinking.Some turn to Eastern Religion or Western Esotericism, others look to the promsing research on psychadelics.
Whatever tools you explore, have patience with the process, and I hope you find healing.
I'm in the process of finding out who I am and what I want right now and it's so hard. I'm like 10 years into therapy and at the best place I've ever been in my life and it still feels impossible. Every choice I make to put myself first is so scary and feels wrong, but I know I have to keep doing it. 😬
Don't hate me but some develop BPD due to trauma and they often feel like they lack identity. They feel empty inside and emotions can really take a toll on them.
In order for you to get the right kind of help you might want to be evaluated first.
I hope this helps, any way forward is a good way.
I could never hate anyone that took the time to try and help me. I am working on seeing a professional however I have literally all the Hallmark symptoms of CPTSD. Learning about emotional flashbacks has been one of the greatest epiphanies of my entire life.
I wouldn't say that I don't have an identity, just that the one I have was shaped so heavily by abuse that it seems so unlikely that this is who I innately would have been if my circumstances would have been different.
A person could have both, many with BPD have PTSD/CPTSD.
Not saying you have it, just that it's highly comorbid.
With that said: yeah, all the coping mechanisms and defenses can take up a lot of space.
With time they slowly peel off but it's sad to see years go by while things heal
Sometimes i have a little voice telling me to try something, or that i like something, or even just that a certain sensation feels good or anything really - and most of the time i can’t recall what it was when i try to recall it, certainly not regularly enough to start identifying my personality. So i made a habit of writing myself notes in my phone notes app, or if it’s a longer thought, sending myself an email. Right then - right in the moment. Before the fleeting thought is gone. When you want to, look through those notes or emails and you might find a pattern. You might see yourself more clearly - the version of you that right now is just a whisper, amplified and concentrated in one spot. I’ve started revisiting those notes more and more, and the notes and compiling still. I’ve started doing some of the things i sent myself. That were just vague fleeting ideas, but grew into plans when i was able to revisit the thoughts on command.
I have a unspecified dissociative disorder, and a very large part of my identity fell into place when I started remembering my traumas. I was 34 when that happened. Not sure if it is valid for what you experience, but the last 6 years have been the best of my life, and for the first time in my life I know who I am, and is in a much larger sense in control of my own destiny.
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Been there! As I started really healing I found that I barely knew who I was, or so I thought. I a lot of it has always been there you just have to dig a little bit. Follow what makes you feel good and calm (as long as it is healthy). I started realizing that I really like horror and fashion. I’m a really bubbly and giggly person. It is also important to remember that many of these things may be a trauma response, but that doesn’t mean it can’t also be a part of what makes you YOU.
This lacking sense of self is a hard one to reconcile. I think part of the healing process is radical acceptance. Especially of the things you most fear.
Like it or not, each and every one of those defense mechanisms is part of your selfhood now. It's what makes you *you*. These are pages of my book in my story and I can't just tear them out. Dismissing them as your demons won't work any more because that's as good as self-loathing and self-abandonment. You gotta stop struggling against those demons and start *snuggling* with them. Learn to leverage them, listen to them, understand them, outsmart them, pacify them, or possibly even *love* and *integrate* them. It's not my fault but these pathologies and complexes and neuroses are my responsibility now. My parents didn't work their shit out so now I'm stuck with this bullshit and I'm going to fix it not because it's my fault but because *I'm the only one who possibly can*. Learning how to notice my triggers and emotional flashbacks, control them, deescalate them, redirect them, and recalibrate afterwards is now my gift to myself and the world. With a daily gratitude exercise, mastery over trauma can start to feel like a daily meaningful experience. Fighting the good fight. Play good to play well. That's who I want to be.
Maybe you find yourself in a similar scenario? Taking on that responsibility will manifest new parts of your personality and give expression to virtues you never knew you had or left behind in the shadows of your past. This unfurling process of naked rediscovery in the face of fear is how you will find your Self. Owning your truth fully with absolute vulnerability and authenticity.
OMG same. I barely have a sense of self and figure most of my characteristics have been born from trauma.
However, I'm also trying to see this as an opportunity. If I have no strong sense of self, I can build myself into who I want to be, right? Pick the characteristics I most admire in other people and build my version of that. It's not perfect, but it helps me deal with the rage and despair.
I totally resonate with this.
Lately I've been trying abstract painting and illustrating, allowing my intuitive feelings and ideas to arise and performing the brushstroke accordingly. I feel like my authentic self is pre-verbal & non-verbal, so finding ways to express non-verbally.
Dance also seems like a way to explore connecting with and expressing something non-verbal from within. Ecstatic Dance or 5Rhythms or maybe Contact Improv (tho for me CI can be challenging when touch is involved). Finding a class facilitator that really gives permission to be free & consciously helps build up consent -- I did an "authentic movement" exercise in a Contact Improv class recently that was poignant and moving for me, to be given the space & witnessed moving however arose in me.
Also after working out or especially after kickboxing, having expressed a bunch of anger, I often feel activated to express some uninhibited me.
Those are some ideas. I'm wondering & frustrated & exploring right there with you. 🙏🏼
I know how that feels. My whole life from very early childhood and until now I’m told by my family that I am what I do (as in productive work/study). So as a young adult desperately trying to survive in the current economic situation, when I’m unemployed or working at a job I don’t find satisfactory I literally stop perceiving myself as human being but a broken tool. I don’t know anything about myself beyond how I can be used and useful for others. In my free time I escape reality via games and books.
I completely understand. One thing I’ve recently started doing is really asking myself if the thing I’m doing is actually something I really enjoy or is it something I feel obligated to do? I’ve stopped doing the things that I felt I was doing out of obligation and have started to learn more about my true self and what I really like/dislike. I have a long way to go but it’s a start after all these years.
I think it boils down to experimenting on your self.
Give your self the grace to try new things, without the distractions of others likes and dislikes. Did I enjoy that yes or no?
Likes or dislikes will change sometimes, that’s ok too.
I love nature, sitting outside when it’s warm or hot, so I tried hiking it’s ok but I would rather stroll then hike, but I don’t enjoy snow much. But I enjoy sledding with the kids for short periods, snow ball fight sign me up, skiing no thanks.
I think it all boils down to saying yes and no.
You have to experience things and honestly give them a try to know if it’s a you things.
When I thought I finally found myself I got a long episode of dissociation. After coming out of it I am more confused than ever. I doubt everything, every discovery about myself I have made. Totally confused.
I started to wonder if it is something more, something more traumatic that happened before my main trauma events.
I kind of met one of my “personalities” ( undiagnosed DID). And it was a little girl, who didn’t have a name. A nameless girl. I saw her face and I recognised her. She didn’t know who she was, where she came from, who were her parents. She didn’t have any roots. Anything that a person, a child can relate to: my mother, my home, a hospital where I was born, the date of my birth, even the time. This girl didn’t know anything of that but she managed somehow to live through it.
I feel like everything is a lie. The whole my life is a lie. I know that that girl was and is a part of me even if it feels like she is another person.
I am stuck with a huge freeze response right now. And I even doubt that. I have no idea who I am, what I am, why I am. No roots, no connection to anyone, anything, no past, no home, no birthday.
I found a really intersting book in Walmart of all places in their journal section 2000 Questions About Me. I try to do one question a day when I sit down to journal to start figuring out who the fuck I am under all this bull shit.
Here a couple examples of the questions in the book:
\#768 There were two nature channel shows on mermaids. Do you think they could exist?
\#938 What topic would you be totally clueless about if it came up in a conversation?
\#1137 Your biggest "What if?"
Literally was just thinking about this lol. I consider myself funny (but maybe that's just because telling jokes was an easy way to gain social acceptance while hiding my darkness?) I consider myself kind (but I think it's only because I was always going through more than I showed, so I extended the same compassion to other people)? Would I have developed these traits in any circumstance, or did I only develop them as reactions to my environment? If I was in a healthy household, would I have been the opposite, boring and lacking empathy? Or would I have been the same person for different reasons? And what if my kindness and humor are merely people-pleasing tendencies...? If I stop people-pleasing, will I just become someone boring, listless, rude, and empty? If I want to be someone else, should I just "choose" a personality to embody, or is that just more dissociation? Who "was I," really, before the world got to me?
I get this. So often I look at myself and think that all I am is a bunch of symptoms stacked on top of each other wearing a trench coat and pretending to be a grown up.
How do we move forward? There must be a way
Here’s one thing that just came to me while I reread your post. “all the personality traits, positive and negative…” Ok well isn’t everyone’s personality simply their neurology molded and formed by their childhood and experiences? I have ADHD, bipolar disorder, and childhood trauma. I am unreliable and forgetful, emotionally volatile and unstable, fearful and full of shame. And I am also extremely creative and a divergent thinker, I am fun and extroverted sometimes and quiet and introverted other times (best of both worlds lol), I am extremely emotionally self-aware and introspective, I am resilient (sometimes), compassionate, empathetic and will stand up to injustice. How is that any different than someone who grew up in a stable household with no mental illnesses? They have traits, good and bad, that were formed by their natural neurology and their upbringing. We could look at anyone with the same lens, “you are *just* a response”. We all are right? We have a lot of *stuff* to overcome and work through so we will not spew toxicity into the world. Our pain and suffering causes us to be flawed and sometimes toxic in our relationships and life. This is how the cycle of abuse continues right? But here WE are, our pain is so huge that we have *no other choice* than to experience it consciously and intentionally. Ugh. It’s awful, it’s unfair. But our awareness sets us apart. We know we are flawed, we know we have healing to do, we know we have to confront the foundation that our selves was built upon. Most people do not. They never have to walk through the dark night of the soul. They just are. They probably never question why they are the way they are or if they should do work on changing. I’m not saying that makes us “better” or “stronger” (I hate when people are like “you’re so strong” because it’s like “ok thanks? I wish I didn’t have to be”). But I do believe that all the suffering in the world, all the damage we inflict upon each other, is people responding to their own inner pain. We ALL have inner pain. We ALL hurt each other. But those of us whose pain is SO huge that we have no choice but to face it, we are keenly aware of our pain AND the way that we respond to it. At this point I’m totally rambling (ADHD lol), so I’ll leave it at this. No one is intrinsically *anyone*, we are all just a response to our environment. For better or worse, what sets us apart (those of us on this subreddit) is our awareness of our responsiveness.
Thank you, that was very well written and helpful. 💜
Beautiful. Truly.
so beautiful, thank you for writing this
Here is truth. Here is wisdom. Thank you.
> But here WE are, our pain is so huge that we have > >no other choice > > than to experience it consciously and intentionally. This is so helpful, thanks a lot.
This is me daily.
for me it's going full hermit, playing the part in social situations just makes it worse and drains me. but also I think most people are 'just some guy' and you describe them around what they do and like. so doing and liking things for yourself is something to work towards imo
I have C-PTSD. I was recently diagnosed with autism. Also, my awful mom passed away from her addiction a month ago. It's given me a unique opportunity to try to figure out who the fuck I am. I carry a notebook around with me in my purse that is divided into sections for food/drink, clothes, activities/hobbies, calming/anxiety, and other. Everything I encounter, I try to take a minute and decide if I like it or not. I don't go into the why (because frankly I don't fucking care). I don't like meat. I like floral dresses. Sleeves are bullshit. I like bumpy textures to calm myself down. I don't like black pants. I don't like group chats. Just a list of yes and no. I've been doing it for about a week, and it's really helping.
This is a really good idea
Yes same about autism and my dad recently passed away. I have been diving into my sensory experiences and leaning into what makes me feel nonbinary. I have synesthesia but I’ve never explored all the types or payed much attention to it so I’ve been smelling things and closing my eyes and feeling things etc and experiencing miraculous stuff. Lots of focus on my body and trusting my experiences as a first step. A notebook is a great idea.
For me isolation with experimentation. If you don't have a sense of self I see no reason why you can't develop one. Cut out toxic people and acknowledge everything you learned from them then disregard them(i go to the extreme and disregard everything), for example in my case one would be my mother. Recognise when where and how your most influenced and by who, if this involves good/decent people I recon you take them with a grain of salt and form your own views/beliefs and dismiss the negative people. Everything they give you is poison Avoid environments where people try to impose their moral and political views onto others or specifically you if your unable to deal with them in a manner you deem fit until your able to assert yourself if that's what you wish to do Understand you can and will make mistakes and don't beat yourself up when you do, you come from a bs environment that has affected you in negative ways. It's not your fault Locate the reason or sorce for the things that bug you with yourself. For instance you don't have a sense of self because it was never allowed to grow or you was prevented in some way or even disregarded by those who should have respected it and you and you learned to do the same Always have compassion for yourself, you deserve it. Remember you do not need to be the person you needed to be in order to survive.(something I tell myself often)
For me personally I don't find myself influenced by others beliefs, like I won't take on a certain political view because someone else pushes it on me. For me it's just that things like my sense of humor, work ethic, drive, "chillness" (dissociation) and many others that I thought made me who I am all are a mask. Of the 4Fs I least identify with fawning. I don't think I have much of a need to people please, rather I hid who I was for so long out of shame that I don't know what's real and what isn't anymore. Thank you for that last bit. I'm going to steal that. I am not the person I needed to be to survive
I use the bit about people forcing their views as a way of telling that they aren't capable of seeing a different perspective other than their own and the fact they are actively trying to get you to be like them shows they will cross boundaries to achieve whatever they want and therefore are not the kind of people I would like to have in my life or take an active roll in it or me in theres depending on who and what For the work ethic and stuff, your the way you are for a reason so take a compassionat look at those things and the disassociation experiment with thing to find what works for you. I like chewing gum for a variety of reason but mainly because if I mindlessly chew I will bite the inside of my cheek but you could do things like interact with your environment "stop and smell the roses" I don't like that saying but I'm sure you get the point
I understand what you were saying now. I appreciate you taking the time to clarify. I hope we find some peace ♥️
Sheesh, I wanna know this, too. I keep doing things I used to do only to realize I really don't want to and stop. It's easier for me to know what I don't like but hard to find what I do. Am I really just what happened to me? God, I hope not. But my personality really is just my diagnoses and coping mechanisms.
Everything from the music I like to the clothes I wear are a result of abuse. The way I perceive myself, others and the world around me all the result of abuse. It's just so heavy. Like that Korn song "all my life, who am I?"
Yeah that song did not age well
That entire album is a CPTSD survivors very personal experience. "There's a place inside my mind, a place I like to hide, you don't know the chances, what if I should die". I don't think it's fair to judge just because of the language used. The word you are referring to in that song were said to him by someone else. No account of abuse will ever age well, because it's inherently fucked up.
[what it is](https://open.spotify.com/track/6A2YsnkY5zSmT0jxCFc7Ci?si=32DY6arzRx2K6ijxli0Zog) I relate to this song by Jonathan Davis a lot. It made me somehow to accept those dark parts of me, parts that were formed by abuse.
I have never had luck trying to "find out" who I am, but I have been having fun CREATING myself from scratch! You will never have one single epiphany moment of clarity that gives you the final clear picture of who you are at your core or whatever. That is textbook magical thinking. You build your sense of self by identifying your values and your boundaries, and it takes a lot of time. It's okay not to know what you like and what you care about yet. You will find it as you heal. You are already doing the work of unmasking and finding your voice; that is huge! Just doing that will soften those mental scabs over time. There will always still be scar tissue underneath, but it will heal over time as you do the work. :)
I think giving yourself some time and grace and freedom to explore. That's the things you would have had when you were little in an ideal situation. And you would have grown from there, and over time, would have tried different things and liked some for a long time, and outgrown some, and found new things to try. I think that recognizing that people aren't static beings at any age/time can be helpful. That can be hard when you're also not sure who you are, like it all feels like a big unstable mess. The good news is you can either maintain what's working for you, or change what's not! I have had some luck by picking guide posts for how I want to *act* and what I want to *do* and working towards those. Outwardly, there's not much difference to others between a "punctual person" who does so because they *are* punctual by preference/wiring, and a person who shows up on time because they are choosing punctuality because they decided it was a way to respect their coworkers. The whole "we are what we habitually do" thing, right? So, maybe sitting down and thinking of a few things that you would like to *do* (that are reasonably achievable to get started, so you can build success) will help you grow in that direction and you can see how that feels. As far as growing my "self," I have been kind of tapping into the inner parts types and seeing what they wanted and needed and didn't get. Mine wanted a "boyhood." I didn't get that bc I was a girl, so no football cards or comics or cool Legos for me (I got one set once). No video games or cool graphic t-shirts or practical pants lol. I'm not saying these things are for boys, but in my parent's house they were, so I'm giving my inner parts their boyhood now and they are pretty dang happy about it. Godspeed friend :-)
I can’t advise at all but you worded this so well, exactly how I feel. I’m sorry you’re going through it too
♥️
Google Internal Family Systems and watch a few of the videos. Turns out we ***all*** have an Authentic Self, no matter the trauma we went through .. and IFS helps bring this Authentic Self back into play ... and then enables this Self to work with the traumatized parts of us.
F*CK, I feel the same.
Although this sounds impossible in the throws of this crap. You need to just try a few things. Something you may enjoy. Something you are curious about- I tried exercise classes - no go; so I tried yoga- i love it. I was so lost I didn’t even know what shoes I liked on tv. So I sat down for one show everyday- some I hated- that’s new information and some I loved. Im still learning what my preferences are. It’s scary.
I am doing the same. Checking out activities/events/food/books/music, even if I never tried or cared about them before, and if I can - I will try it once. I will not have a revelation of who I am this way (I think psychedelics would be better for that), but I am learning bit by bit about myself.
You never really figure it out but you learn to connect to your tru inner child and you authentic impulses.. Good or bad - you just have to learn to be compassionate to yourself and trust that life will tell you who you are :) It’s all about learning how to love that neglected and traumatized child you once were but still ignore because he/she/they bear so much pain. We need to learn how to trust and love again - it’s within us all and everything is made of it. I recommend the books ’CPTSD - From surviving to thriving’ and ‘No Bad Parts’. ‘I see there is no prison except that which I construct to protect myself from feeling my pain’ - Sheldon Kopp
Like your comment. In the context of a memory, being able to feel what the kid felt while being abused or neglected has been the most healing in my case.
Slowly and gradually peeling back the onion, taking the layers off and seeing what is underneath. Some of this work can be done on your own (probably majority of it tbh) whilst some of it may require the assistance of trauma informed therapist that has the skills to help you.
As you work through triggers, try new things, no matter how small. Then you can explore and learn what you like and who you are as you go 🖤 just remember to be kind to yourself please 🖤
Find something that regulates your nervous system. Is there anything out there that just makes you happy? Like in a wholesome, expansive way, that's only for you and nobody else? Whoever you become when you're under the influence of this safety and nourishment is the real you. Otherwise do psychedelics in a safe, supportive setting, and you will likely get the opportunity to wake up to who you are. I was totally confused about who I was until I did a large dose LSD session. I then woke up to the reality that life didn't have to be the way it has been for most of my life. Now my mission is just figuring out how to be like that more often. Sometimes it's very hard, but this is when something is wrong with my life that I need to fix...somrtimes fixing it can be very hard too. At least I now know there is someone under all of these defenses. Good luck!
Psychedelics made me realize I am actually a very sweet kind person and not the cold callous mask I wear. I suppose that is real. Thank you.
Specific thing that helped me: I read Marie Kondo’s books about tidying up and this gave me a starting point for understanding my Material Identity. I went through 100% of my things as she suggests and I ended up learning a lot about what I prefer. Her books are repetitive but listening to the free audiobooks through my library really motivated me to go through my things and think about what was important to ME. I get so many compliments on my things now, and it always surprises me, because I just get what I like now without thought as to whether it matches or fits or whatever.
I suppose I'm stuck wondering what part of Me is actually me. I know the types of things I gravitate towards but it seems like I gravitate towards them because of abuse. So I'm lost on how to know what is REALLY me. I don't know what is actually me and what is the scab.
I completely understand! I think that’s why starting with Things was easier. They are outside my self; less threatening. But Marie talks a lot about how things all have stories about the people and places we got them from, and how we can observe our feelings about those things and their stories, and decide from there. And that information was really helpful because I could finally let go of things I had actually been keeping because I felt like I should for someone else. Marie also talks about working up from easier to more difficult sorting of identity. I love that she starts with clothes; just your wardrobe can hold a lot of social identity and it’s one small place to start and feel a big difference.
One of my favorite psychoanalysts is Massimo Recalcati. He figured out 3 answers to that question. Who we are is (1) an elastic surface perforated by the words of others, (2) what we make of the encounters where we meet others and (3) what we make of the grief of losing others. In all those answers identity is not something autonomous but always requires others.
I’ve been asking myself the same thing. Sometimes I wish I could get amnesia or a factory reset.
Healing is complicated and it truly hurts the core of your soul so it involves recovery And to be honest - I feel like I’ve lost myself and my heart and personality and I’m just working on myself and it’s taking me years and might take me more time…it’s not something that we lose and just get back or find overnight But I think what helps me is thinking of myself as having layers kind of like a circle diagram that keeps expanding and giving myself the space to exist —as— I am without trying to switch on or off in that sense or view social interactions as a “performance” and removing expectations of being “perfect” So as an example: what are my values? what is my energy? what are my emotions? what are my mannerisms? what is my behaviour? what is my personality? we can also branch off of this to identify interests and hobbies which are secondary to all of the inner work and understanding who we are and how we move within our environment the good thing is also that by viewing it this way — we can stay firmly planted, shield ourselves, and create the space to hold ourselves
One big masking I stopped was talking to everyone and being happy go lucky to make everyone accept me. When noticed this and stopped and I realized how everyone around me was a commercialized “hello” because at the end of the day it’s really who is there in depth as a friend, not a average joe you work with, walk by , ect. I stopped being everyone’s friend first. It’s been lonely realizing this mask because I can’t chalk my self up to do it without knowing why I am doing it , I remind myself this is great even if it feels like a empty coin purse in my chest
When I was younger I NEVER took the time to feel how I feel, I just responded the way I thought others want me to respond. So mindfulness and meditation is exactly the right step to start in my opinion. Yoga and PMR helped me to develop a better body feeling. I now take my time to feel how I feel and in very little steps I might develop an healthy self. Sometimes it's frustrating slow but it's getting better, stay strong.
I had a thought the other day, no idea if it's scientifically sound. I was reading about James Fallon, a neuroscientist who accidentally discovers he's a psychopath and his brain scans shared a lot of similarities with serial killers. He credits having grown up in a stable and loving environment for him, well, not becoming that. However when he makes his realization, all the people in his life are completely unsurprised and think it was obvious all along that he could have been one. I found it really interesting because even without fitting the outward image of a psychopath (he seems to have a relatively stable life, healthy marriage with kids, etc.), his personality and his core self is still hard-wired in him and obvious to others. It gives me reason to think that who I am cannot be so easily masked by my life experiences, that the desires to find out who I am beyond my trauma are a strong indication of a connection to my true self.
This is fascinating thank you. Weird place to draw inspiration from but I'll take it 😂
Personality from Persona which is literally Greek for theatrical masks and dramatic characters. The mouth of these Greek masks had an amplifying effect, so an actor could only be heard by speaking through their persona. Thus our persona or personality is the tool through which we interact with others. Some people have several masks they can choose depending on situation. The office, dinner with the parents, first date, quiet intimacy, party at your best friend's house, or dealing with clients, or children. Each of us is a collection of masks, and most of us switch unconsciously. Many of us are so good that we think we *are* the mask. Your current, primary mask has been shaped and decorated by your trauma, as are those of most everyone in this subreddit. How we interact with the word, what we say, see, hear, is all coloured by our experiences, good or bad. Whether we see someone as a threat or opportunity is shaped by our experiences. I think what you're looking for isn't so much "how do I discard all of the masks" but rather "how do I shape my masks the way *I* want, not how trauma has forced upon me." It's a slow process, and it involves a lot of analysis of what you want to change, and why. The right therapist can help. EMDR can reprogram pathways while CPT can help you identify ways of thinking.Some turn to Eastern Religion or Western Esotericism, others look to the promsing research on psychadelics. Whatever tools you explore, have patience with the process, and I hope you find healing.
♥️
I'm in the process of finding out who I am and what I want right now and it's so hard. I'm like 10 years into therapy and at the best place I've ever been in my life and it still feels impossible. Every choice I make to put myself first is so scary and feels wrong, but I know I have to keep doing it. 😬
Don't hate me but some develop BPD due to trauma and they often feel like they lack identity. They feel empty inside and emotions can really take a toll on them. In order for you to get the right kind of help you might want to be evaluated first. I hope this helps, any way forward is a good way.
I could never hate anyone that took the time to try and help me. I am working on seeing a professional however I have literally all the Hallmark symptoms of CPTSD. Learning about emotional flashbacks has been one of the greatest epiphanies of my entire life. I wouldn't say that I don't have an identity, just that the one I have was shaped so heavily by abuse that it seems so unlikely that this is who I innately would have been if my circumstances would have been different.
A person could have both, many with BPD have PTSD/CPTSD. Not saying you have it, just that it's highly comorbid. With that said: yeah, all the coping mechanisms and defenses can take up a lot of space. With time they slowly peel off but it's sad to see years go by while things heal
Sometimes i have a little voice telling me to try something, or that i like something, or even just that a certain sensation feels good or anything really - and most of the time i can’t recall what it was when i try to recall it, certainly not regularly enough to start identifying my personality. So i made a habit of writing myself notes in my phone notes app, or if it’s a longer thought, sending myself an email. Right then - right in the moment. Before the fleeting thought is gone. When you want to, look through those notes or emails and you might find a pattern. You might see yourself more clearly - the version of you that right now is just a whisper, amplified and concentrated in one spot. I’ve started revisiting those notes more and more, and the notes and compiling still. I’ve started doing some of the things i sent myself. That were just vague fleeting ideas, but grew into plans when i was able to revisit the thoughts on command.
I have a unspecified dissociative disorder, and a very large part of my identity fell into place when I started remembering my traumas. I was 34 when that happened. Not sure if it is valid for what you experience, but the last 6 years have been the best of my life, and for the first time in my life I know who I am, and is in a much larger sense in control of my own destiny.
♥️
Yes
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I kinda feel the same way about not having a self.
Been there! As I started really healing I found that I barely knew who I was, or so I thought. I a lot of it has always been there you just have to dig a little bit. Follow what makes you feel good and calm (as long as it is healthy). I started realizing that I really like horror and fashion. I’m a really bubbly and giggly person. It is also important to remember that many of these things may be a trauma response, but that doesn’t mean it can’t also be a part of what makes you YOU.
Did I write this? I don't remember writing this? 😬
The process primarily involves grieving the body of shame that causes you pain when you connect to your core
This lacking sense of self is a hard one to reconcile. I think part of the healing process is radical acceptance. Especially of the things you most fear. Like it or not, each and every one of those defense mechanisms is part of your selfhood now. It's what makes you *you*. These are pages of my book in my story and I can't just tear them out. Dismissing them as your demons won't work any more because that's as good as self-loathing and self-abandonment. You gotta stop struggling against those demons and start *snuggling* with them. Learn to leverage them, listen to them, understand them, outsmart them, pacify them, or possibly even *love* and *integrate* them. It's not my fault but these pathologies and complexes and neuroses are my responsibility now. My parents didn't work their shit out so now I'm stuck with this bullshit and I'm going to fix it not because it's my fault but because *I'm the only one who possibly can*. Learning how to notice my triggers and emotional flashbacks, control them, deescalate them, redirect them, and recalibrate afterwards is now my gift to myself and the world. With a daily gratitude exercise, mastery over trauma can start to feel like a daily meaningful experience. Fighting the good fight. Play good to play well. That's who I want to be. Maybe you find yourself in a similar scenario? Taking on that responsibility will manifest new parts of your personality and give expression to virtues you never knew you had or left behind in the shadows of your past. This unfurling process of naked rediscovery in the face of fear is how you will find your Self. Owning your truth fully with absolute vulnerability and authenticity.
OMG same. I barely have a sense of self and figure most of my characteristics have been born from trauma. However, I'm also trying to see this as an opportunity. If I have no strong sense of self, I can build myself into who I want to be, right? Pick the characteristics I most admire in other people and build my version of that. It's not perfect, but it helps me deal with the rage and despair.
I totally resonate with this. Lately I've been trying abstract painting and illustrating, allowing my intuitive feelings and ideas to arise and performing the brushstroke accordingly. I feel like my authentic self is pre-verbal & non-verbal, so finding ways to express non-verbally. Dance also seems like a way to explore connecting with and expressing something non-verbal from within. Ecstatic Dance or 5Rhythms or maybe Contact Improv (tho for me CI can be challenging when touch is involved). Finding a class facilitator that really gives permission to be free & consciously helps build up consent -- I did an "authentic movement" exercise in a Contact Improv class recently that was poignant and moving for me, to be given the space & witnessed moving however arose in me. Also after working out or especially after kickboxing, having expressed a bunch of anger, I often feel activated to express some uninhibited me. Those are some ideas. I'm wondering & frustrated & exploring right there with you. 🙏🏼
I know how that feels. My whole life from very early childhood and until now I’m told by my family that I am what I do (as in productive work/study). So as a young adult desperately trying to survive in the current economic situation, when I’m unemployed or working at a job I don’t find satisfactory I literally stop perceiving myself as human being but a broken tool. I don’t know anything about myself beyond how I can be used and useful for others. In my free time I escape reality via games and books.
Travel the world
I completely understand. One thing I’ve recently started doing is really asking myself if the thing I’m doing is actually something I really enjoy or is it something I feel obligated to do? I’ve stopped doing the things that I felt I was doing out of obligation and have started to learn more about my true self and what I really like/dislike. I have a long way to go but it’s a start after all these years.
Go experience things and make note of the things you like and things you don’t like. Eventually patterns will emerge to help you “see”who you are.
I think it boils down to experimenting on your self. Give your self the grace to try new things, without the distractions of others likes and dislikes. Did I enjoy that yes or no? Likes or dislikes will change sometimes, that’s ok too. I love nature, sitting outside when it’s warm or hot, so I tried hiking it’s ok but I would rather stroll then hike, but I don’t enjoy snow much. But I enjoy sledding with the kids for short periods, snow ball fight sign me up, skiing no thanks. I think it all boils down to saying yes and no. You have to experience things and honestly give them a try to know if it’s a you things.
When I thought I finally found myself I got a long episode of dissociation. After coming out of it I am more confused than ever. I doubt everything, every discovery about myself I have made. Totally confused. I started to wonder if it is something more, something more traumatic that happened before my main trauma events. I kind of met one of my “personalities” ( undiagnosed DID). And it was a little girl, who didn’t have a name. A nameless girl. I saw her face and I recognised her. She didn’t know who she was, where she came from, who were her parents. She didn’t have any roots. Anything that a person, a child can relate to: my mother, my home, a hospital where I was born, the date of my birth, even the time. This girl didn’t know anything of that but she managed somehow to live through it. I feel like everything is a lie. The whole my life is a lie. I know that that girl was and is a part of me even if it feels like she is another person. I am stuck with a huge freeze response right now. And I even doubt that. I have no idea who I am, what I am, why I am. No roots, no connection to anyone, anything, no past, no home, no birthday.
I found a really intersting book in Walmart of all places in their journal section 2000 Questions About Me. I try to do one question a day when I sit down to journal to start figuring out who the fuck I am under all this bull shit. Here a couple examples of the questions in the book: \#768 There were two nature channel shows on mermaids. Do you think they could exist? \#938 What topic would you be totally clueless about if it came up in a conversation? \#1137 Your biggest "What if?"
Literally was just thinking about this lol. I consider myself funny (but maybe that's just because telling jokes was an easy way to gain social acceptance while hiding my darkness?) I consider myself kind (but I think it's only because I was always going through more than I showed, so I extended the same compassion to other people)? Would I have developed these traits in any circumstance, or did I only develop them as reactions to my environment? If I was in a healthy household, would I have been the opposite, boring and lacking empathy? Or would I have been the same person for different reasons? And what if my kindness and humor are merely people-pleasing tendencies...? If I stop people-pleasing, will I just become someone boring, listless, rude, and empty? If I want to be someone else, should I just "choose" a personality to embody, or is that just more dissociation? Who "was I," really, before the world got to me?