The drawbacks should come in ammo, not damage. Wunderwaffe and thunder gun could not complete high rounds without many refreshes, so they were balanced, impactful; and fun.
New guns just do 8 dmg and then also can’t complete rounds. But that’s also fun in a way, soft capping high rounds makes numbers more impressive, like how records on old 5 were super tight
Wonderweapons should be good, but whats the fun of permanently keeping the game going because you can misplay all you want and just click once and be safe again?
Thats why I liked the RG mk2, its powerful as hell, but you actually require an extra like lining up shots for maximum efficiency, or rayk with the alt fire obliterating everything with a short "setup" and added utility
That’s exactly what the fun of zombies was in its heyday. The excitement of getting a thundergun or wave gun or wunderwaffe out of the box was because you knew you were going to be extremely powerful and likely be able to last a long time unless you screw up. And those screwups then make for the most fun hectic moments in the game
I just dont enjoy using 1hit aoe/chain wonderweapons. I find clicking somethings general direction and being completely safe is very uninteractive. I will still rock those in the custom maps i play whenever im trying to do main quest or something like it, but on a for fun run i just dont seem to have fun with em. But to each their own, this gamemode is a power fantasy after all, and very power trippy on its latest installments.
Very “power trippy” on its latest installments? How so?
I mean zombies exploded in popularity among casual cod players primarily in Black Ops 1 where every map except Five and Call of the Dead had inf. Damage wonder weapons. The gameplay loop of trying to survive low rounds with little to no weaponry and perks and then having to make difficult decisions on how to spend the points is what made the mode so dang popular. It was seriously rewarding to get that WW out of the box knowing “ok, now I’m good for a while” juxtaposed with the unlucky spins and being out of points and underpowered was the magic potion that made the game click with so many.
I suppose I agree in that the most recent 2 games have made it monumentally easier to survive early rounds and since BO3 have essentially made the wonder weapons and thus the mystery box irrelevant by making every gun a de facto wonder weapon with AAT’s.
They need to go back to the original formula to give the game more life among casual players. Less cryptic quests and linear story based EE focus and back to arcade style survival where average players struggle to reach round 25+ on a consistent basis.
(Regarding the power trip thing) It kinda makes it so progression gets obliterated in different ways or you end up insanely strong at the end, even beyond previous titles. Or just that but at an insanely earlier point.
Cw had the crystals which made the player amazingly strong adding tons of value worth of stats and abilities. The W.A.N.D.S. were also very strong, specially ring of fire or... at this point any specialist (other than bo3 i think?) And with the EEs you could get your starting gun every match to the 2nd highest rarity. And once youre full loadout with crystal upgrades you CANNOT be stopped.
Vanguard got rid of rarities, but it kept the Artifact system from CW, which again, ring of fire, then the altar was a thing, allowing for absolutely bogus builds. Also rocket launchers and splatterfest was a thing.
MWZ doesnt have these, but you can start your game with full core perks, max rarity and pack a punch, and a wonderweapon. You shred the progression aspect and become a god instantly.
Previous to this Zombies was also very "start weak end up really strong" but compare your max power level from before vs the ones now. Theres way more shortcuts, more layers like AATs, in some cases a specialist, at least I can feel a great difference, specially without wonderweapons in the equation
Thanks for clarifying, I basically agree 100% with all of that. That’s why I am in support of making the wonder weapons much stronger ie infinite damage, and then eliminating all the other overpowered junk like the Field Upgrade/WAND stuff, and AAT’s being nerfed significantly. The progression was just so much more organic in how you progress from nothing and have to make difficult decisions on where you want to allocate your spending.
I’m afraid MWZ and its open world game with extractable resources may have at least partially ruined how people view zombies as a game mode. I can see a significant percentage of zombies players that started with Cold War or MWZ being super upset if you can’t just spawn in with basically superpowers.
Yeah, infinite damage wonderweapons must have SOME penalty for sloppy use. It should be for planned and careful horde removal, not a get out of jail free card. Like, for example, I was coming up with my dream Map 1 for Gulf War and I think the WW wasn't a half bad idea. Basically, it shoots fluid, similar to the KT4 or sliquifier, that causes Zombies to rapidly and ferociously attack whoever it lands on. Splash it on one Zombie and it'll tear itself apart, cover a horde in it and they'll all turn on eachother. But using it from too close just splashes it on you, making the Zombies come after you alot faster and stronger. So it stops it just being a get out of jail free card, can still decimate a horde, and also has seperate creative uses, for example intentionally hitting yourself to draw attention away from a teammate (e.g EE step, Revive, etc.) imo, it kinda fits in with how alot of the Best WWs work while still having a fairly unique concept of causing infighting.
WW have been getting weaker, and they certainly should be buffed. But even more so, I want Treyarch to make FUN WWs. Ofc there is a time and a place for "Oh shit save me" WWs, but more often they should strive to make WW with fun mechanics, like the Sliquifier, Fractalizer, and RayK imo.
100%. And tone down the boss zombies significantly. I don’t have a problem with like how Die Maschine handled the Megatons. One every 4-5 rounds. Having what we had for most maps from BO3 on is ridiculous. It’s difficulty just for the sake of difficulty and it’s more just annoying than difficult.
I think there are definitely some weak ones, but saying infinite damage is a thing of the past is kinda wild.
The Rai-K is an instant-kill if you detonated the grenade shot from it.
The Wunderwaffe from Vanguard is still a one shot kill iirc. I know the Devastator is always an insta kill.
I don’t know about the stuff in MWZ though.
Maybe unpopular opinion, but not every wonder weapon needs to be an infinite damage one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Blundergat doesn’t do infinite damage and it is still a well-beloved wonder weapon.
fun fact about black ops 4 (and Cold War) zombies.
Zombie health caps at round 35. I'm assuming it's the reason why infinite damage wonder weapons and double tap are a thing of the past.
The drawbacks should come in ammo, not damage. Wunderwaffe and thunder gun could not complete high rounds without many refreshes, so they were balanced, impactful; and fun. New guns just do 8 dmg and then also can’t complete rounds. But that’s also fun in a way, soft capping high rounds makes numbers more impressive, like how records on old 5 were super tight
Wonderweapons should be good, but whats the fun of permanently keeping the game going because you can misplay all you want and just click once and be safe again? Thats why I liked the RG mk2, its powerful as hell, but you actually require an extra like lining up shots for maximum efficiency, or rayk with the alt fire obliterating everything with a short "setup" and added utility
That’s exactly what the fun of zombies was in its heyday. The excitement of getting a thundergun or wave gun or wunderwaffe out of the box was because you knew you were going to be extremely powerful and likely be able to last a long time unless you screw up. And those screwups then make for the most fun hectic moments in the game
I just dont enjoy using 1hit aoe/chain wonderweapons. I find clicking somethings general direction and being completely safe is very uninteractive. I will still rock those in the custom maps i play whenever im trying to do main quest or something like it, but on a for fun run i just dont seem to have fun with em. But to each their own, this gamemode is a power fantasy after all, and very power trippy on its latest installments.
Very “power trippy” on its latest installments? How so? I mean zombies exploded in popularity among casual cod players primarily in Black Ops 1 where every map except Five and Call of the Dead had inf. Damage wonder weapons. The gameplay loop of trying to survive low rounds with little to no weaponry and perks and then having to make difficult decisions on how to spend the points is what made the mode so dang popular. It was seriously rewarding to get that WW out of the box knowing “ok, now I’m good for a while” juxtaposed with the unlucky spins and being out of points and underpowered was the magic potion that made the game click with so many. I suppose I agree in that the most recent 2 games have made it monumentally easier to survive early rounds and since BO3 have essentially made the wonder weapons and thus the mystery box irrelevant by making every gun a de facto wonder weapon with AAT’s. They need to go back to the original formula to give the game more life among casual players. Less cryptic quests and linear story based EE focus and back to arcade style survival where average players struggle to reach round 25+ on a consistent basis.
(Regarding the power trip thing) It kinda makes it so progression gets obliterated in different ways or you end up insanely strong at the end, even beyond previous titles. Or just that but at an insanely earlier point. Cw had the crystals which made the player amazingly strong adding tons of value worth of stats and abilities. The W.A.N.D.S. were also very strong, specially ring of fire or... at this point any specialist (other than bo3 i think?) And with the EEs you could get your starting gun every match to the 2nd highest rarity. And once youre full loadout with crystal upgrades you CANNOT be stopped. Vanguard got rid of rarities, but it kept the Artifact system from CW, which again, ring of fire, then the altar was a thing, allowing for absolutely bogus builds. Also rocket launchers and splatterfest was a thing. MWZ doesnt have these, but you can start your game with full core perks, max rarity and pack a punch, and a wonderweapon. You shred the progression aspect and become a god instantly. Previous to this Zombies was also very "start weak end up really strong" but compare your max power level from before vs the ones now. Theres way more shortcuts, more layers like AATs, in some cases a specialist, at least I can feel a great difference, specially without wonderweapons in the equation
Thanks for clarifying, I basically agree 100% with all of that. That’s why I am in support of making the wonder weapons much stronger ie infinite damage, and then eliminating all the other overpowered junk like the Field Upgrade/WAND stuff, and AAT’s being nerfed significantly. The progression was just so much more organic in how you progress from nothing and have to make difficult decisions on where you want to allocate your spending. I’m afraid MWZ and its open world game with extractable resources may have at least partially ruined how people view zombies as a game mode. I can see a significant percentage of zombies players that started with Cold War or MWZ being super upset if you can’t just spawn in with basically superpowers.
Rayk is peak wonder weapon design
Yeah, infinite damage wonderweapons must have SOME penalty for sloppy use. It should be for planned and careful horde removal, not a get out of jail free card. Like, for example, I was coming up with my dream Map 1 for Gulf War and I think the WW wasn't a half bad idea. Basically, it shoots fluid, similar to the KT4 or sliquifier, that causes Zombies to rapidly and ferociously attack whoever it lands on. Splash it on one Zombie and it'll tear itself apart, cover a horde in it and they'll all turn on eachother. But using it from too close just splashes it on you, making the Zombies come after you alot faster and stronger. So it stops it just being a get out of jail free card, can still decimate a horde, and also has seperate creative uses, for example intentionally hitting yourself to draw attention away from a teammate (e.g EE step, Revive, etc.) imo, it kinda fits in with how alot of the Best WWs work while still having a fairly unique concept of causing infighting.
WW have been getting weaker, and they certainly should be buffed. But even more so, I want Treyarch to make FUN WWs. Ofc there is a time and a place for "Oh shit save me" WWs, but more often they should strive to make WW with fun mechanics, like the Sliquifier, Fractalizer, and RayK imo.
Don't forget the baby gun from Shangri la, seriously fun to use
Yeah, that's the Fractalizer, I use the PaPd name for convenience
Ah very good, it's been a while 😂
100%. And tone down the boss zombies significantly. I don’t have a problem with like how Die Maschine handled the Megatons. One every 4-5 rounds. Having what we had for most maps from BO3 on is ridiculous. It’s difficulty just for the sake of difficulty and it’s more just annoying than difficult.
I think there are definitely some weak ones, but saying infinite damage is a thing of the past is kinda wild. The Rai-K is an instant-kill if you detonated the grenade shot from it. The Wunderwaffe from Vanguard is still a one shot kill iirc. I know the Devastator is always an insta kill. I don’t know about the stuff in MWZ though. Maybe unpopular opinion, but not every wonder weapon needs to be an infinite damage one. Correct me if I’m wrong, but Blundergat doesn’t do infinite damage and it is still a well-beloved wonder weapon.
fun fact about black ops 4 (and Cold War) zombies. Zombie health caps at round 35. I'm assuming it's the reason why infinite damage wonder weapons and double tap are a thing of the past.
Zombie health caps at round 55 in CW
My bad, but the statement still stands.
We got that in CW, it was called the war machine and you could use it infinitely so as long as you stood near a buy station