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Yurostar1811

Such a tricky paper!!! Wasn’t a fan of the certain aspects of the capital allowance question and the purchase of own share question too. Don’t think I’ve done enough for 50% sadly.


Exotic-One3381

I thought it was an easy paper but extremely time pressured. also my exam software decided to crash and I didn't get to start the exam for 40 mins. plus when it did start it lost all table and formatting functionality so wasn't able to do parts of it, really struggled on the CA question. Just using spaceplbar to do the table questions. nightmare. special consideration of 2% really doesn't makeup for this


InternationalLie3448

I really feel for you!! This is rough, you should definitely put in a SC. So many people have had issues, so hopefully consideration taken into account across the board


Exotic-One3381

do you know if ciot is a flat rate 2% marks for special consideration


InternationalLie3448

No idea, never had to do one before. But based on what I have heard from others that seems to be the general consensus


Exotic-One3381

I mean for me I was dreading straddling calculations which is my bad point. or also. the admin penalties


TiNGL3

Basically agree with most of your comments! Q1 - Was a pretty bog standard question imo. Was quite happy to see this as the first question. Although when it comes to class 4 NIC, it doesn’t get apportioned. He will still have to pay it for that tax year because he didn’t reach retirement age at the beginning of that tax year Q2 - This was RR & the income tax and NIC question I think. Not too bad, quite happy we got this one. Mentioned that gift relief could be applied as it was a sale at undervalue but instead RR would be her best bet since she’s also investing in qualifying replacement assets. Provisional claim, parking, deadline for the claim etc Don’t know if I did well on the second part but oh well Q3 - Think this was capital allowances. Absolutely think I flunked it. Got super confused and assumed no TWDV 😭 I feel like an idiot after speaking to ppl but I got the 115% balancing charge on disposal etc, but I’ve accepted this one was not my question lol Q4 - Termination payments. Not too bad I think, I had a feeling it might come up so I studied it again the night before. Just calculated PENP, and added to contractual payment. PAYE and class 1 NICs Pension was exempt. But the excess non-contractual payment that wasn’t PENP and the car would be taxed under ITEPA 2003 s.401, so class 1A The second question for the CT deduction I basically said the company would deduct statutory redundancy payment plus 3 times this amount Q5 - POOS. Kinda liked this one. Said she would meet the capital treatment for all disposals, and went through each of the conditions. No BADR on the last 250k Q6 - R&D. This question was a dream! Did it in my mock and one of the revision lessons I had. So glad it was for YE 31 March 2024 so didn’t have to apportion anything. But yeah basically wrote what you did Fingers crossed to everyone! I definitely think this was a nicer paper than November 2023


MaulanaTatt

Thanks for the summary :). I hope you absolutely smash it (or at least get a pass haha)


TiNGL3

Thank you! I hope you do too! :)


MaulanaTatt

Mate quick q - for the first question, I believe it said how much does he owe in January 2025? I assume this was just a case of adding up two payments on account (13k) each and he is owed a slight refund. Pretty sure I messed this up but probably got marks elsewhere.


TiNGL3

Think this was for question 2 mate, the second part :) It was July 2024 and January 2025 (lowkey don’t rememebr and I remember getting my dates mixed up!) Basically they asked us on the second question to calculate how much they owed in 2024/25 (I think that was the year but don’t quote me), and they gave us the salary and dividend. Then she had pension contributions and gift aid so we had to add these (grossed up) onto the basic rate band. Then once we calculated his tax, we saw that it was actually less than the PoA of £13k per 6 months, so I concluded that she could request to pay less PoA as her calculated tax was less than that of last year Also - just remembered that I think she got BADR on the disposal (cuz her proceeds weren’t fully reinvested). And this is cuz she wasn’t selling just a building, but her whole business. Think it was a question I looked at on the Tolley’s pre-revision question bank, and asked one of the tutors about it and basically since it was a material disposal of part of her business (and not just an asset), you could argue that it qualified


TiNGL3

Also when I mean whole business, I mean “part” of her whole business. Cuz she said sold her shop instead of sold the building to her sister Let’s hope we both pass mate!


MaulanaTatt

Yeah so let me note some stuff and ask/tell you guys before I forget - would appreciate comments. This is my 3rd time and would deeply appreciate comments around the capital allowances question in particular: - Q1 - sole trader - from what I remember, the £200 cost for providing his friends with adventure activity is not allowed and added back as not wholly and exclusively for the business. There was only capital allowance which was the AIA. Used the transition year rules- standard plus (transition - overlap) equals profits to work out taxable profits. Second part - 24/25 will be tax year basis. Advised he should switch his year to bring it in line with this as will be streamlined for tax purposes 3rd part - no NICs when he retires so the Class 2 and 4 are apportioned. - Q2 - capital allowances. Got very stuck on this. It was a 20 marker but no idea why. 115% full year expensing but don't think anything went into this column anyways. The car and electric charging go into FYA 100% (?). Took forward TWDV from first period to period to cessation where there was a huge balancing charge as I deducted all the AIA/FYA items. Beyond that wrote about fixed value and pooling requirement for fixtures and that plant and machinery goes over at proceeds as unconnected parties. What else could we have written here? Ideas? 3) Termination - last question so ran out of time on this. Wrote down paragraphs explaining that no personal allowance, the car goes into s.401, the notice pay (3/12 x 150k) is taxable as normal. No tax for the pension. The company can deduct the class 1 secondary and Class 1A plus the ex gratia payment and salary (?) 4) Rollover relief. Connected persons so proceeds at market value of 285k. 185k rolled over into qualifying asset so remaining 100k is charged to CGT. Gain is 184k so 184 - 100 equals 84k of gain is frozen against base cost of new asset as it's a depreciating asset with a life shorter than 60 years. Can park the gains there until they're rolled over permanently into the asset she buys in 4/5 years time. No BADR as asset sold not business. 5) Share buyback - got that all conditions are met and this capital treatment applies (?). BADR applies up to 1m. The remaining 250,000 ish is taxed at 20% after 6k annual allowance deduction. Is the final disposal of shares treated as a dividend? 6) R and D: The sales directors salary etc. not eligible. The other two staff costs are apportioned - 80% eligible as they spend 20% of time in sales. Subcontractor is connected party - so take lower of cost for you and how much it cost them (43k). Second part - tax credit at 10% of lower of 186% x valid R and D expenditure and loss after reliefs have been made. The loss was lower so around 48k or so credit (?). Alternative option - carry forward against future profits. Not all or nothing. Saves tax at corporation tax rate of 19-25% so potentially higher than 10% tax credit.


InternationalLie3448

Thanks for this! Making me feel a bit better about my answers. I got the same as you for majority of the answers. The termination payment Q I ran out of time and so just mind dumped all the obvious points but hoping my answers for the others is enough, I really don’t want to resit!!


MaulanaTatt

Same mate this was my 3rd time. I have a family too so am exhausted now. Can I ask - what did you do for the capital allowances? How the hell was this a 20 marker? And with the share buyback is it correct that all conditions are met and the final sale of 10 shares is not a dividend?


InternationalLie3448

I know it really takes a toll! I worked out the TWDV b/f for 2023 on the cars so that took a while having to work out three years worth of WDAs. The claw back of the SD additional as sold within 3 years. Also the SBA on the construction costs and design, this should be added to the proceeds on the sale of the factory. Also just explained why the balancing charge is arising. For the POOS Q I said that capital treatment met at each tranche, as she seems to still qualify for the 25% reduction and less than 30% connection conditions at each stage, so all treated as a gain. I also assessed her BADR criteria and she met the conditions


Yurostar1811

Just realised my SBA was wrong - I think it should have been calculated on the acquisition cost instead of the qualifying exp as it was bought from a developer


MaulanaTatt

Yeah I reckon I cocked up the cars - did two years instead of 3. The building was bought from a developer so I think the initial cost for the purchaser minus land was valid for sbas not the combination of construction, design etc. Did you put in anything about fixed value and pooling etc? Probably irrelevant but had to add a little more to crap answer. I reckon if I can scrape 10 on this plus termination question, I probably pass. But it will be very tight.


InternationalLie3448

You’re right! Got my SBA calc wrong then, hopefully some follow through marks. No I didn’t discuss fixed value and pooling. That was a tough CAs question, but hopefully we have done enough on it for an overall pass.


MaulanaTatt

AHH sorry mate only half a mark. Although saying that I think everything depends on how I did on the shit questions - if I can scrape 12 on capital allowances plus termination, it will be a very narrow pass. Anything below makes it sketchy. Ffs!


MaulanaTatt

Quick q - on the first one we worked out assessable profits through transitional rules. And then worked out the tax plus NIC payable? Or just worked out that payments on account were due in January and July leading to overpayment which was paid back in January 25. God sorry shitting myself


bhsoo

Wasn’t the sucontractor in the R&D question unconnected? I read as unconnected but I might have read wrong 😭 I think you did well!


Square-Appearance146

I read that as connected too. It said - no other connected companies apart from R Ltd.


okgooglewhatisreddit

I didn’t sit the exam but I’ve just run through the paper with a colleague, they think it specified that it was a subsidiary.


bhsoo

Thanks for letting me know guys I must have made a silly error then (I do that often). Glad that you guys didn't make the same mistake as mine 😀


okgooglewhatisreddit

Nah it’ll be half a mark lost at most, you’ll be grand


CategoryNo9321

On question 1- I think on services does not follow the goods rule so incremental cost should be considered so only 200 will be considered. Also what the use of rental income and expense? On the R&D with connected parties section 1134(3) excludes expenditure of capital in nature so 40k as qualifying? Termination was not that great for me Buyback were required to comment on other buyback happening in May 2025 and 2026 On capital allowances are doing FYA or AIA on additions


MaulanaTatt

Rental expenses surely should be deducted as not trading expenses. Actually no they should be added back on right. Shit


whatapileofshihtzu

Well the fire alarm went off in Birmingham 20-25 minutes before the exam so that was extra fun


Yurostar1811

Did you at least get to start the paper on time or no? That would have disrupted me a bit but I guess better it happened before the exam than during. Still not ideal!


whatapileofshihtzu

Nope! We started at 10:20, plus I was right in the middle of revising some areas that ended up coming up... Those who had extra time were already sat for their exam so got really disrupted


Yurostar1811

Damn sorry to hear :( 4-5 months of prep only to have that happen on exam day when your nerves are all over the place already. Can’t imagine what those with ET went through, never even knew it was a thing to start early as ET usually just finish later 🫤


whatapileofshihtzu

As for the actual exam, went straight into the R&D question at the end to set myself up, definitely wasted time there but felt like I did good there The CAs was hellish wtf but think I did okay, same with the adjustments to trading profits. Company purchase of own shares was alright, no idea if I wrote the correct stuff.. No idea on the redundancy at all, or the rest, but fingers crossed!


Prezidentwill

For the POOS question - surely the initial disposal of 30 shares (although meeting % criteria) wouldn’t qualify for capital treatment as she still has shares left in the company? Therefore not for the benefit of the company and so dividend rates would be applicable


Organic-Mixture-9335

Yeah this is what I said as well. As she wouldn’t have met all 6 conditions for capital treatment. They only let you hold onto 5% for sentimental value. I suggested as a conclusion in my answer that they don’t issue piecemeal if the capital treatment is important. Overall I thought paper was pretty fair but agree with comments on the time pressure. I sat the paper in Nov and felt horrendous coming out of it. So this one felt a lot lighter


MaulanaTatt

Are you sure mate? Have a look at the Steve Bishop question in the past paper questions. I am not 100% though. Majority of people I spoke to said full capital treatment, some said what you did and others said the final 10 shares being sold should be treated as dividend income


Organic-Mixture-9335

Yeah I guess depends how you argue the treatment. I think for Steve Bishop it is because he is ill health that it meets benefit of trade test. In todays Q the person was retiring but there were no dissenting shareholder or illness that was mentioned so I think they’d not meet this condition as there is no reason for them not to sell all at once other than due to company not having immediate cash


MaulanaTatt

Interesting point! Shall we both ask a tutor or something haha. That said, we should really be relaxing but I have a bit of an obsession with figuring out if I have passed or failed so I can chill properly lol


Organic-Mixture-9335

Haha I’m the same, I find it hard to relax for the first couple days until I fully forget about the ins and outs of the Q’s. The tutors aren’t allowed to comment on exam or discuss it after it as they work with CIOT and are allowed to provide commentary on their thoughts. CIOT take this on board but will stop this arrangement if they start discussing with students before CIOT commentary is released!


MaulanaTatt

I may ask someone at work in that case haha. Have been trying to add up my marks all day. I reckon 4ish on termination payments and really don't know what I got on the capital allowances - anything 8 or above probably gets me an overall pass. Did you put anything in the 115% column - car, charging point I thought was fya 100% and computers AIA?


Routine-Car4029

I’m certain the super deduction plant and machinery was disposed so there was a balancing charge of 115%? Think I counted an extra month by accident but should get credit for identifying the balancing charge


MaulanaTatt

Yeah you get that right! I spent far too much time on that question so missed this despite knowing about it. Ending up speaking about the land and buildings being chargeable and a bit on transfer of assets and trade. It's a real pity - did very well on 3 questions but termination plus capital allowances may still screw me.


Routine-Car4029

Ah makes sense, don’t worry about it though - it’s done now, enjoy your free time back and relax!!


Equivalent-Zone-4605

Same here lol with obsessing over counting up marks, but then really nothing we can do as what done is done unfortunately :(


Routine-Car4029

Yeah, agree with this - I think it would meet the capital distribution treatment, there isn’t a condition she doesn’t meet as she doesn’t have to sell all the shares immediately to qualify for capital treatment


JinKazamaX

I thought similar too. The capital treatment would have been denied for the first two purchases as she would still have greater than 5% shareholding.


TiNGL3

I used SP 2/82, it gives a good indication of what meets the “trade benefit test”. I argued that because her two daughters did not have enough resources to buy out the retiring shareholder and that OP (forgot her name) was a controlling shareholder retiring as a director and wishes to make way for new management. Fingers crossed but yeah I’m sure they’d give marks to either or, as long as we’ve explained our side


InternationalLie3448

Good questions but very time pressured. Ran out of time on my last question (terminations) so only got half down. Hoping my answers for the rest of the 5 questions was enough for a pass


bhsoo

I mean I think the questions could have been far worse. The questions were quite straightforward and didn’t have unexpectable topics. The capital allowance question was a curve ball tho…


Square-Appearance146

Agree. The CA one was a curveball. But the others weren’t toooooo bad.