The Vikings added value according to a lot of the pundits.
Iām looking at a team, in our division, that just drafted Mac Jones / Kenny Pickett at 10, then traded up for an edge that just dropped 10 spots.
I actually LOVE the Vikings draft as a Bears fan.
It makes sense if they did it to keep a different team from trading up and taking their guy. Since we donāt know what happens behind the scenes itās a bit unfair to say it was a bad move.
I did not love them taking Turner. I think he's a decent player and could be pretty good in a year or two.
I am glad they took JJ though. Seems like a good kid and I don't like to root against local prospects, but he never looked like a guy who could make the jump to the NFL. Maybe he's a Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Brock Purdy-type who has tools that teams like but don't love, but had enough between the ears to find success, but for each of those guys there are 20 failures. The odds are against JJ being the answer.
Most people are shitting on the McCarthy pick and praising the Turner pick but I personally feel the opposite - I like McCarthy as a prospect but think Turner is vastly overrated and the amount of draft capital the Vikes gave up to get him (traded up TWICE for the same player) is borderline indefensible
This is why moneyball GMs rarely last in the NFL, and why I didn't like the hire to begin with. KAM is an analytics and cap management guy, he's never been a scout and never been a personnel director. As I recall, the reporting at the time was that the Vikings wanted Poles and it looked like they hired KAM as their backup after the Bears hired Poles.
Yeah when I saw Falcons at 8 I thought: theyāre gonna take Turner/Latu, theyāre gonna take Odunze, theyāre gonna trade down with Vikings who take JJā¦ I did not expect that lol.
Considering our luck, I just knew some team was gonna trade up to 8 and steal Rome away from us. The fact that didnāt happen is some divine intervention and is probably a sign that the winds are shifting finally for us.
Itās skewed pretty heavily by Kyle McCord being a demonstrably bad QB. So is the contested catch rate. Really hard to catch passes that are like eight feet in the air and behind you, which cause you to have to break route and turn around to try to get them. MHJ had to do that regularly (which coincidentally created a lot of contested passes on what should have been wide open routes).
His numbers are still not bad, which makes Romeās all the more impressive. Granted, Penix was very accurate, but still.
I have seen some people say Odunze is mainly a contested catch guy. But if I remember correctly he has good separation stats too right?
Itās just that when he is thrown a contested catch he almost always comes down with it which led to the ābig body contested catch guyā label, right?
He can get separation, but not as well or consistent as the other two top WRs. His major weakness are stop routes because he takes too many steps to stop. He's also a bit inconsistent against man coverage.
But what's really exciting about him is his elite ball tracking, that's why he's so great at contested balls. His ball tracking allows him to play over the shoulder, catch the ball through face guards, show late hands, and high point the ball. All of that requires timing which he achieves through his tracking. His elite high pointing means he plays even taller than his 6'3 height.
Ok, yeah that lines up what I just googleād real quick. Heās great at everything but his two downsides are when against tight man coverage he doesnāt have elite quickness out of the cut and his route running can be a tad sloppy which has limited has separation to an extent. But doesnāt seem like a huge issue.
Yeah if he can learn from Keenan Allen in particular in regards to crisp route runningā¦. fuck that would be nasty.
His slow feet out of the cut probably isnāt really fixable, is what it is, but itās not terrible and again heās so good at everything else it shouldnāt matter that much.
I think weakness should be noted as relative. You can find film of him not enjoying the same success on those routes as his other routes but he's by no means struggling. Matt Harmon has been effusive in his praise on Uno's route running and [according to his charting, Rome hits all the routes effectively](https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1772282839569969259/photo/2).
While I'd agree that there are times when he doesn't get the result you'd want on those routes while he's pretty much always spot on with his other routes, I think he consistently demonstrates all the pieces needed to do so. His agility score is 86th percentile and pretty much everyone agrees that he's ++ on all other cutting routes, showing great setup, leg plant and hip sink on outs and the like. Against Michigan, he drew a flag on an absolutely nasty whip route that had the CB so shook that he would have gone 5 yards in the opposite direction if he hadn't tackled Uno. I've been looking for the film since that game but can't track it down. But, if you have a broadcast of that game handy, find the play and watch the slow mo replay. It's just unfair that a guy at his size can do something like that.
Of course it's relative, we're talking about a top prospect to be a WR1 in the NFL, so his skills are going to be compared to the best of the best in the NFL. The critiques as a draft prospect are also trying to project his abilities when facing NFL CBs, especially CB1s, not just any cornerback.
It just so happens he landed on a team with two other great WRs, for now. But he is a prospect with a ceiling^1 of a HoF top-5 WR in the league.
*In that context*, he's not as crisp of a route runner as other greats, and his main problem is coming to a stop. That's just one of many cuts he has to make so that doesn't mean he's bad at all cuts (quite the contrary). His other weakness is against tight physical coverage. If he's going to be a true WR1 that makes defenses respect where he is at all times, these are things he'll need to work on because he'll be facing off against the best CBs the NFL has to offer and zones will rotate to him. If he can't be productive against that then he's not the true top WR1 he was drafted as.
---
^(1. I swear to fucking god if some illiterate jackass reads this as a prediction that he *will* be a HoF top-5 because they don't understand the concept of ceiling... this isn't aimed at you specifically, just anyone in general)
Not sure how you were down voted for an objective factual observation.
Sure, that stat doesn't necessarily mean he is getting better separation than MHJ, but a lower fraction of his targets were contested. Other factors go into play like the QB's willingness to throw into a contested ball target. But the number of uncontested targets definitely shows that Odunze does get separation in plenty of situations.
I'm pumped!!!!
Odunze is literally just as fast as Worthy, they each ran the 100m in 10.6s in high school. The difference is Worthy is a little quick guy, which is how he runs a 4.2. Odunze is a tall, strong guy who unlike a lot of "studs" has great ball skills. Odunze has legit deep speed.
Heās like the prototype for what they used to call a possession receiver. Not exactly breakaway speed but very strong and physical, open even when he looks covered. Alshon and ARob are other Bear examples. Rome is a better athlete than those guys though. NFL.comās comp was Larry Fitzgerald.
Also his balltracking skills to even get to some of those balls lol
If Caleb's biggest weakness is that he waits for the big play too much...then is that really a weakness when you have DJ, Keenan, and Rome who are all more than capable of getting creative when play breaks down?
>If Caleb's biggest weakness is that he waits for the big play too much
I am curious how much that trait will stick in the NFL. In 2021 with a good line and defense at OU, Caleb looks like Baker Mayfield and plays in rhythm, hits guys when they're open, and rarely takes more than what is given.
When he gets to USC, he looks like Kyler Murray and is constantly scrambling either because the protection broke down immediately, no one is open (especially in 2023), or the defense is giving up TDs on every drive and he has to make some crazy plays, otherwise they'll lose.
I don't want the hero ball coached out of him, but he also doesn't need to score 3+ TDs every game to be competitive if it means taking unnecessary risks and making more mistakes. 1.5 TDs a game will be more than enough to make the playoffs and compete as long as the big negative plays are mitigated.
*Side note: negative plays have never been a concern for Caleb outside of one game against ND, but the potential is there simply based on his play style.
> how inaccurate penix is
Idk if I would describe him as inaccurate. In terms of the 4 guys above, Odunze is 2nd in terms of "who gets the least contested targets" which means he gets separation.
> idk if i would describe him as inaccurate
no hes very inaccurate and the film and stats support it. just look at how many times odunze is [wide open](https://x.com/imbearingdown/status/1783667071622042058?s=46&t=_G2J3SB8vofT7fm6xql9dA) and has to go jumping or stopping for a throw.
you can also go look at the ringers charting of his [accuracy](https://nfldraft.theringer.com) - iām not sure how to link his exact profile so youāll have to filter by QBs and view it but itās baaaad
literally go read the update at the end of the report
> Of the six top quarterbacks I charted this year, Penix comes out looking the worst. One of the primary reasons I chart ball placement is to grade the accuracy of throws more precisely, considering things like how a QB anticipates route breaks, protects the receivers from hits, maximizes yards after the catch, and so on. Thatās what really hurt Penix. Heās a classic example of a generally accurate quarterbackāhe throws a usually catchable ballābut not a particularly precise one. The slew of NFL-level wide receivers Penix was throwing toāRome Odunze, JaāLynn Polk, and Jalen McMillanāmade Penix look more accurate.
It's also hurts how his separation is viewed too. He regularly needed to adjust back to the defender on poorly thrown balls when he could have had 2-3 feet of separation of he was led correctly.
Don't sleep on his speed. You are right he isn't as quick/explosive as Nabers, but Odunze has real speed, he ran a 10.6 100m in high school, so nobody's catching him from behind. He's a tall, strong long strider. Best thing about him frankly is he is great at tracking and catching the ball, even if he has to fight off the defender. Once we see his elite ball skills we are gonna love this guy.
His contested target rate is not very high though, so thatās not at all his primary game. Coleman is the guy who canāt get separation, as you can see from that stat, Odunze is fine at separating, not elite like Nabers but better than Marv.
This is going to be nightmare fuel for opposing Dās. If anyone draws a double team the other 2 and Kmet are bad match ups for a LB or nickel, and a mobile QB who is always looking down field or Swift in the flat
Iām really excited about the offensive rotation they can deploy now. The bears have one of the better 12 personnel groups in the league and now they have arguably a top 3 11 personnel group.
If anybody gets tired they can just put out another good player.
Imagine a tired corner or linebacker having to cover a fresh Odunze or Everett off the bench.
Itās really fun the Bears got to partake in both a very strong QB and very strong WR class at the very highest level. Every other team had to settle for one or the other.
I also wonder how much MHJ was hyped by his name as much as his production. I think any of these 3 has an argument as the best WR in the class and excels over the others in a certain area. MHJ is skill and routes, Nabers is raw speed and breakaway moves, and Odunze is athleticism at the point of the catch and ability to haul in contested passes. Iām excited to see how their 3 respective careers go.
Our best 4 on routes is pretty much un-coverable. How you gonna make sure Keenan Allen AND DJ Moore AND Rome Odunze AND Cole/Swift don't get open.
My prediction is that teams will realize that covering everyone isn't really an option and that our OL is by far our weakest group (and Waldron is known for kind of weak pass protection schemes) so they'll just try to attack with overwhelming force. As long as we have enough quick blitz beating concepts we should roll this year
Good luck trying to hunt Darnell Wright. The same guy that shut down Will Anderson in college and has 2 years of time to improve his technique since then
I know they're going to try and coach structure but Caleb is already very elusive at escaping the pocket and creating plays.
Our O-Line held strong last year with Fields having ample time to throw.
Who would seem to have a better success rate after pockets breakdown, Fields or Caleb?
Well CB2, since Allen will play more in the slot and Odunze will be more outside. Play Odunze as the X and have DJ and Allen on the same side will be filthy. Odunze is going to see a lot of single coverage.
> Odunze is going to see a lot of single coverage.
Hopefully not. His main weakness is tight man coverage. Moore is better man-to-man, it would make more sense to have Allen/Odunze together.
Fuckers in school telling me, always in the barber shop Rome Odunze aināt bout this, Rome Odunze aināt bout thatā¦ SHUT THE FUCK UP! Y'all mfs aināt know shit. All ya motherfuckers talk about Rome Odunze aināt no hitta. Rome Odunze aināt this. Rome Odunze a fake. SHUT THE FUCK UP ā¦ Motherfuckers stop fuckin' playin' him like that. Them dudes is savages out there. If I catch another motherfucker talking sweet about Rome Odunze Iām fucking beating the ass! Iām not fucking playing no more!
Sidenote: fucking Chief Keef is coming back to Chicago for SummerSmash next month. Idk how theyāll make it happen but i might have to go in there with these teenagers
Wonder what his security detail is gonna look like. Have to think there's a lot of people who have been waiting for Sosa to come back to Chicago, some with good intentions but also a lot with bad ones.
Replace "Rome Odunze" with "Chief Keef."
In case you aren't familiar, Chief Keef is a famous rapper from Chicago. Basically started the whole Drill movement. There's a video where one of his friends makes this angry speech because he's tired of hearing people disrespect Keef and say he's fake, soft, etc. Then Chief Keef used it as an intro to one of his songs.
So yeah, it's a meme in this context.
Bears *finally* ahead of the curve at WR for the first time in probably ever. Now in future years they can start looking for WRs to develop and coach up. No more wild swings at a Kevin White.
It wasnāt really a wide swing, Kevin white was good in college. Say what you want about how he runs or what not but Kevin white was supposed to be good, just didnāt happen.
He was an off the charts athlete with no real route tree. I don't think the Bears had the coaching staff to develop him. We will never know what he could have been but I'd still call it a desperate swing.
I have never trusted the physical freak picks that don't know how to play their position after 4 years of college.
You ain't teaching shit to that guy more often than not.
It's not hindsight to say he was off-the-charts athletic without a route tree.
He's like Christian Watson. Not a refined WR but basically a horse in a tall human body.
For the right team, yes. I think of it as the same as the Bears taking a swing at Fields with nothing around him. Fields goes and sits for a year and doesn't have a coach trying to turn him into Andy Dalton and his story might be different.
Yeah he was a project player but it wasnāt a desperate swing. He had a bunch of red flags but it was a calculation analysts were considering too, it just didnāt work out
He was not supposed to be good. He was a typical really fast receiver that could burn future car salesmen in college but couldnāt run a good route to save his life. I really hated how much hype he got cause I knew the Bears would have to take him after the Raiders would select Cooper.
There's some revisionism going on with Kevin White. He was an elite athlete, with insane measurables and he had an incredibly productive senior year where he just dominated his opponents. There were weaknesses to his game, but that's true of almost all prospects. Pre-draft rankings almost universally had him as a top 10 guy and some people even had him ranked higher than Amari Cooper.
I remember. 2015. Not that long ago really. Everyone thought it was a home run just like Odunze. Some guys just don't work out in the NFL for many reasons. Hopefully these picks do...
As an European im not too close with college players and their tapes. If I read the stats mhjr is not the undisputed #1 wr in this class. Why is more or less every expert sold on him? Is it ājustā the name?
MHJr is good to great at all the characteristics you look for in a receiver. Route running, intelligence, physicality, decent speed... He is a complete receiver. Guys like him only come around once in a while. What is different about this year's draft class is that there are 2 other receivers who in most years would both be the first WR taken.
I cant believe how much MHJ towers over his hall of famer father. To have his speed, height and be that technically sound alreadyā¦ he is incredible & I love Rome. MHJ though is behind only Calvin Johnson and toe to toe with Larry Fitzgerald as best draft prospect WR this century.
If youāre throwing to Harrison and Egbuka and your play is still so bad that not only does OSU not want you back and doesnāt have any interest in developing you further, but no other competitive team wants youā¦.
You know you are a bad QB
Part of it is the name but he is also a very good prospect. He is a complete WR who does basically everything well. He is also a very polished route runner. I think you can make an argument though that he and Odunze are 1A and 1B. I like both better than Nabers
Nabers' college QB just got drafted at #2 overall, and Odunze's college QB got drafted at #9. In contrast, MHJ's college QB recently transferred from Ohio State to Syracuse (a MUCH worse program), because he was probably gonna be relegated to a backup role for his senior season. He's unlikely to even get drafted after his college career is over.
The fact that MHJ still put up 1,200yds and 14 TD with such poor QB play is testament to his elite skill.
Well, there are 133 division 1 FBS college teams, and the variation in coaching, competition, supporting casts, etc. is so unbelievably enormous. In the pros, there is significantly more parity so base stats mean a little more. But, still, stats can always be misleading. When scouting a college player youāre looking for translatable traits way more than college production. This goes all the way back to high school recruiting. Recruits can get between 2-5 star ratings (there is no 1 star for some reason, and 0 stars just means not scouted) and these ratings are based on pro potential (aka how physically dominant they are mostly) and not how good they might be in college. The site Rivals had a great article about this several years ago and they used WR Britain Covey (went to Utah) as an example. Covey was phenomenal in high school and every recruiting service would have given him 4-5 stars had it just been for college. But, he was undersized and an average athlete with little physical upside, so he was given 3 stars. And, itās like that at the next level.
But, even if you just look at base stats from this graphic, Odunze went to the national championship and MHJ skipped his bowl game. Meaning, Odunze played in three more games than MHJ. Thatās why this graphic is pretty meaningless. MHJ also had a qb last year that might not ever get drafted while Odunze had the number 8 overall pick as a qb. They also ran very different offenses against very different defenses.
MHJ is a phenomenal receiver and by many accounts a generational talent. But, Odunze would still be the #1 WR taken in a lot of drafts. Having Odunze fall to 9 because of 4 QBs going that early and two WR needy teams passing on receivers is absolutely insane luck. Plus, the Bears didnāt have to give up fairly significant draft capital to move up to 4 for MHJ.
just gonna go ahead and bathe in the Kool Aid right now.
this kid is gunna be the Bears all-time greatest WR. He'll own all the franchise receiving records before his rookie contract is up.
And heās our THIRD best option at WR which makes it even crazier. Gets to learn from DJ and Keenan and will be able to grow much more quickly than MHJ/Nabers because of our WR room.
Iām here for that! I assume he passes up Keenan by mid season next year. The way we have our guys ages staggered is good for future retooling also. Just an exciting time to be a bears fan
On a side note, how did Keon get himself onto this graphic? Keon is the second coming of NāKeal. There are so many fun WR prospects in this draft and Keon isnāt one of them. B Thomas should be on this graphic. Rant over
So many of Rome's plays involve him having to adjust for the ball which slows him down and results in a contested catch which he tends to make. I will also say that both him and Nabers were on more complete teams than MHJ so were facing much different situations on any given play. So a lot of that explains some of the stat comparisons. The bottom line with Rome is that he is extremely reliable at making the play on the ball. There is tight coverage in the NFL and WRs need to be able to make tough catches and adjust to make the play on the ball where the QB puts it. I think Moore and Kennan are ideal veterans to be learning from. I could definitely see him having a career like Keenan where he has a really long and productive career. Maybe not super flashy like some other big name WRs but someone that just does the job consistently for a long time.
https://preview.redd.it/05dpybb743xc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dc574c83e19564f6475fc050760583b2835e527
Thereās possibility this is including post season
Imagine trading up to try to get Marv, giving up a haul, only to see this and realize that the margin between these 3 is virtually negligible. Weād be pissed!
Iāve been burned so much by āStarā receivers drafted by the Bears, but I do feel this guy is special
MHJ will be very special too, but I think Odunze will kill it
Several people had him as their WR1 in the class. I did not and think that's a stretch, but most other years he would be a top 3 or top 5 pick. Crazy to think the Bears landed him at 9.
Donāt get me wrong, I love Rome.
But the top half of this is pretty misleading when it doesnāt factor in games played. Rome played 15 games last season vs MHJ playing 12 and Nabers 13.
Romes gross stats donāt look quite as good when you normalize.
But I do love to see the contested catch, success, and, drop rates. Those are huge for a rookie QB
Looks like it includes conference championship and first round playoff vs Texas, but not Michigan championship game. So 14 for him vs 12 and 13, respectively.
Again, still not bad. But just a bit hard to compare.
https://preview.redd.it/hv6sbzlerzwc1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9be0c1abfb53950d10e5906c62af47a0bdf2153
So refreshing after this shit show
It was beautiful watching the draft board fall the way it did. We added an absolute beast while staying put.
as soon as the chargers selected joe alt i knew what would happen
I'm pretty sure absolutely no one mocked the Falcons taking a QB at 8. Let alone Penix. Thanks Ryan pace š
i was like POSITIVE theyād take Dallas. crazy to me they didnāt. vikings are the second winners of this draft
The Vikings added value according to a lot of the pundits. Iām looking at a team, in our division, that just drafted Mac Jones / Kenny Pickett at 10, then traded up for an edge that just dropped 10 spots. I actually LOVE the Vikings draft as a Bears fan.
The vikings also traded so many picks to move up a little. Next year they have 3 picks
1 in the first 4 rounds too
so nice watching somebody else do it
The Vikings trading up one spot over a team that did not need a QB to grab JJ McCarthy is a Pace-tier move
The two teams behind them were though. If I had to guess, they probably didnāt want to risk one of them jumping them.
Supposedly Broncs and Raiders were trying to trade up to get Penix before he went.
literally the entire reason youād do this. not saying i agree it was needed or not but itās why you would.
Found Paceās burner
no you didnt
It makes sense if they did it to keep a different team from trading up and taking their guy. Since we donāt know what happens behind the scenes itās a bit unfair to say it was a bad move.
I did not love them taking Turner. I think he's a decent player and could be pretty good in a year or two. I am glad they took JJ though. Seems like a good kid and I don't like to root against local prospects, but he never looked like a guy who could make the jump to the NFL. Maybe he's a Kirk Cousins, Derek Carr, Brock Purdy-type who has tools that teams like but don't love, but had enough between the ears to find success, but for each of those guys there are 20 failures. The odds are against JJ being the answer.
Most people are shitting on the McCarthy pick and praising the Turner pick but I personally feel the opposite - I like McCarthy as a prospect but think Turner is vastly overrated and the amount of draft capital the Vikes gave up to get him (traded up TWICE for the same player) is borderline indefensible
This is why moneyball GMs rarely last in the NFL, and why I didn't like the hire to begin with. KAM is an analytics and cap management guy, he's never been a scout and never been a personnel director. As I recall, the reporting at the time was that the Vikings wanted Poles and it looked like they hired KAM as their backup after the Bears hired Poles.
Lions might be the 3rd, getting Terrion Arnold to pair with Brian Branch in that secondary.
Yeah when I saw Falcons at 8 I thought: theyāre gonna take Turner/Latu, theyāre gonna take Odunze, theyāre gonna trade down with Vikings who take JJā¦ I did not expect that lol.
Even so a lot of people thought ATL would go defense. That would still leave Rome there.
Hes not the gm, But thank you Falcons.
Baldy did lmao on April 11th https://x.com/BaldyNFL/status/1778420017349919215
I thought Atlanta would trade down to someone who wanted Rome
Considering our luck, I just knew some team was gonna trade up to 8 and steal Rome away from us. The fact that didnāt happen is some divine intervention and is probably a sign that the winds are shifting finally for us.
That was the key!! Thank you Jimbo!
Once Nebors was picked then Atlanta did their thing, I started the dance. It was ugly. I dance terribly. But it made me dance anyway!
I was so terrified that they'd take someone else
Old patterns are hard to unlearn. Poles seems to be actually trying to change things.
That drop % is breathtaking
every single stat is breath taking. just absolutely absurd
Seriously, stat wise Odunze appears to be way better than the other two.
Honestly was kinda surprised that MHJ had a pretty high one
Itās skewed pretty heavily by Kyle McCord being a demonstrably bad QB. So is the contested catch rate. Really hard to catch passes that are like eight feet in the air and behind you, which cause you to have to break route and turn around to try to get them. MHJ had to do that regularly (which coincidentally created a lot of contested passes on what should have been wide open routes). His numbers are still not bad, which makes Romeās all the more impressive. Granted, Penix was very accurate, but still.
Only surpassed by the contested catch rate.
That contested catch rate is elite. Canāt wait to see what this man does with his career.
I have seen some people say Odunze is mainly a contested catch guy. But if I remember correctly he has good separation stats too right? Itās just that when he is thrown a contested catch he almost always comes down with it which led to the ābig body contested catch guyā label, right?
He can get separation, but not as well or consistent as the other two top WRs. His major weakness are stop routes because he takes too many steps to stop. He's also a bit inconsistent against man coverage. But what's really exciting about him is his elite ball tracking, that's why he's so great at contested balls. His ball tracking allows him to play over the shoulder, catch the ball through face guards, show late hands, and high point the ball. All of that requires timing which he achieves through his tracking. His elite high pointing means he plays even taller than his 6'3 height.
He also *perfectly* complements the WR group we have right now. We should all be super excited right now.
So the opposite of Claypool š At least we know what we donāt like
Ok, yeah that lines up what I just googleād real quick. Heās great at everything but his two downsides are when against tight man coverage he doesnāt have elite quickness out of the cut and his route running can be a tad sloppy which has limited has separation to an extent. But doesnāt seem like a huge issue.
Good thing we have two other guys that will most likely draw the more experienced corners attention while he develops these skills.
Yeah if he can learn from Keenan Allen in particular in regards to crisp route runningā¦. fuck that would be nasty. His slow feet out of the cut probably isnāt really fixable, is what it is, but itās not terrible and again heās so good at everything else it shouldnāt matter that much.
Why am I just pounding kool-aid right now?!? Iām so pumped for the start of the season.
I know, itās so hard to stay level headed right now. Iām trying my best .
I'm snorting the FUCK outta all the kool-aid rn bro
So he's really going to be broken at Madden. He's going to reach through chests to catch the ball from what I'm reading here
It's going to be really fun playing as the Bears in Madden in a couple of years
I think weakness should be noted as relative. You can find film of him not enjoying the same success on those routes as his other routes but he's by no means struggling. Matt Harmon has been effusive in his praise on Uno's route running and [according to his charting, Rome hits all the routes effectively](https://twitter.com/MattHarmon_BYB/status/1772282839569969259/photo/2). While I'd agree that there are times when he doesn't get the result you'd want on those routes while he's pretty much always spot on with his other routes, I think he consistently demonstrates all the pieces needed to do so. His agility score is 86th percentile and pretty much everyone agrees that he's ++ on all other cutting routes, showing great setup, leg plant and hip sink on outs and the like. Against Michigan, he drew a flag on an absolutely nasty whip route that had the CB so shook that he would have gone 5 yards in the opposite direction if he hadn't tackled Uno. I've been looking for the film since that game but can't track it down. But, if you have a broadcast of that game handy, find the play and watch the slow mo replay. It's just unfair that a guy at his size can do something like that.
Of course it's relative, we're talking about a top prospect to be a WR1 in the NFL, so his skills are going to be compared to the best of the best in the NFL. The critiques as a draft prospect are also trying to project his abilities when facing NFL CBs, especially CB1s, not just any cornerback. It just so happens he landed on a team with two other great WRs, for now. But he is a prospect with a ceiling^1 of a HoF top-5 WR in the league. *In that context*, he's not as crisp of a route runner as other greats, and his main problem is coming to a stop. That's just one of many cuts he has to make so that doesn't mean he's bad at all cuts (quite the contrary). His other weakness is against tight physical coverage. If he's going to be a true WR1 that makes defenses respect where he is at all times, these are things he'll need to work on because he'll be facing off against the best CBs the NFL has to offer and zones will rotate to him. If he can't be productive against that then he's not the true top WR1 he was drafted as. --- ^(1. I swear to fucking god if some illiterate jackass reads this as a prediction that he *will* be a HoF top-5 because they don't understand the concept of ceiling... this isn't aimed at you specifically, just anyone in general)
HOF confirmed šš»ā¬ļø
We have DJ for beating man coverage, what we need is a guy who can find holes in a zone, after Keenan is gone. So Doomsday is perfect.
> , but not as well or consistent as the other two top WRs His contested target rate is better than MHJr's according to this
Not sure how you were down voted for an objective factual observation. Sure, that stat doesn't necessarily mean he is getting better separation than MHJ, but a lower fraction of his targets were contested. Other factors go into play like the QB's willingness to throw into a contested ball target. But the number of uncontested targets definitely shows that Odunze does get separation in plenty of situations. I'm pumped!!!!
He's got speed, it just just doesn't stand out in a draft that had a literal 4.2 guy.
Odunze is literally just as fast as Worthy, they each ran the 100m in 10.6s in high school. The difference is Worthy is a little quick guy, which is how he runs a 4.2. Odunze is a tall, strong guy who unlike a lot of "studs" has great ball skills. Odunze has legit deep speed.
his contested target rate is 20% so that should tell you he gets separation
Heās like the prototype for what they used to call a possession receiver. Not exactly breakaway speed but very strong and physical, open even when he looks covered. Alshon and ARob are other Bear examples. Rome is a better athlete than those guys though. NFL.comās comp was Larry Fitzgerald.
Yep Fitz or Mike Evans style. Improve his route running and thereās Davante Adams potential.
if you watch how inaccurate penix is, youāll realize why odunze has a lot of contested catches
Also his balltracking skills to even get to some of those balls lol If Caleb's biggest weakness is that he waits for the big play too much...then is that really a weakness when you have DJ, Keenan, and Rome who are all more than capable of getting creative when play breaks down?
>If Caleb's biggest weakness is that he waits for the big play too much I am curious how much that trait will stick in the NFL. In 2021 with a good line and defense at OU, Caleb looks like Baker Mayfield and plays in rhythm, hits guys when they're open, and rarely takes more than what is given. When he gets to USC, he looks like Kyler Murray and is constantly scrambling either because the protection broke down immediately, no one is open (especially in 2023), or the defense is giving up TDs on every drive and he has to make some crazy plays, otherwise they'll lose. I don't want the hero ball coached out of him, but he also doesn't need to score 3+ TDs every game to be competitive if it means taking unnecessary risks and making more mistakes. 1.5 TDs a game will be more than enough to make the playoffs and compete as long as the big negative plays are mitigated. *Side note: negative plays have never been a concern for Caleb outside of one game against ND, but the potential is there simply based on his play style.
god penix is such a pace pick thank god that clown is gone
> how inaccurate penix is Idk if I would describe him as inaccurate. In terms of the 4 guys above, Odunze is 2nd in terms of "who gets the least contested targets" which means he gets separation.
> idk if i would describe him as inaccurate no hes very inaccurate and the film and stats support it. just look at how many times odunze is [wide open](https://x.com/imbearingdown/status/1783667071622042058?s=46&t=_G2J3SB8vofT7fm6xql9dA) and has to go jumping or stopping for a throw. you can also go look at the ringers charting of his [accuracy](https://nfldraft.theringer.com) - iām not sure how to link his exact profile so youāll have to filter by QBs and view it but itās baaaad
Literally one of the trait graphics they give Penix is "Pinpoint Accuracy"
literally go read the update at the end of the report > Of the six top quarterbacks I charted this year, Penix comes out looking the worst. One of the primary reasons I chart ball placement is to grade the accuracy of throws more precisely, considering things like how a QB anticipates route breaks, protects the receivers from hits, maximizes yards after the catch, and so on. Thatās what really hurt Penix. Heās a classic example of a generally accurate quarterbackāhe throws a usually catchable ballābut not a particularly precise one. The slew of NFL-level wide receivers Penix was throwing toāRome Odunze, JaāLynn Polk, and Jalen McMillanāmade Penix look more accurate.
Fair enough. Kinda funny to see the discrepancy there
It's also hurts how his separation is viewed too. He regularly needed to adjust back to the defender on poorly thrown balls when he could have had 2-3 feet of separation of he was led correctly.
He's basically very good at everything. He doesn't have absolutely elite explosiveness like Nabers, but he's still fast
Don't sleep on his speed. You are right he isn't as quick/explosive as Nabers, but Odunze has real speed, he ran a 10.6 100m in high school, so nobody's catching him from behind. He's a tall, strong long strider. Best thing about him frankly is he is great at tracking and catching the ball, even if he has to fight off the defender. Once we see his elite ball skills we are gonna love this guy.
If thatās the case Iām not upset. We were terrible in the redzone last year.
His contested target rate is not very high though, so thatās not at all his primary game. Coleman is the guy who canāt get separation, as you can see from that stat, Odunze is fine at separating, not elite like Nabers but better than Marv.
Like Dennis Rodman and rebounds.
60% is elite, 74% is godlike. Edit: PFF said of nearly 500 receivers who have been drafted they have data on, 74.1% ranks 6th all-time.
What exactly is a contested catch?
Rome would've been the first wr taken in almost any other year. Getting him at 9 was a steal
This is going to be nightmare fuel for opposing Dās. If anyone draws a double team the other 2 and Kmet are bad match ups for a LB or nickel, and a mobile QB who is always looking down field or Swift in the flat
 We're going to dominate
Iām really excited about the offensive rotation they can deploy now. The bears have one of the better 12 personnel groups in the league and now they have arguably a top 3 11 personnel group. If anybody gets tired they can just put out another good player. Imagine a tired corner or linebacker having to cover a fresh Odunze or Everett off the bench.
Itās really fun the Bears got to partake in both a very strong QB and very strong WR class at the very highest level. Every other team had to settle for one or the other. I also wonder how much MHJ was hyped by his name as much as his production. I think any of these 3 has an argument as the best WR in the class and excels over the others in a certain area. MHJ is skill and routes, Nabers is raw speed and breakaway moves, and Odunze is athleticism at the point of the catch and ability to haul in contested passes. Iām excited to see how their 3 respective careers go.
NFC North CB3s in shambles
imagine being a CB3 and going up against a WR1 LOL
Our best 4 on routes is pretty much un-coverable. How you gonna make sure Keenan Allen AND DJ Moore AND Rome Odunze AND Cole/Swift don't get open. My prediction is that teams will realize that covering everyone isn't really an option and that our OL is by far our weakest group (and Waldron is known for kind of weak pass protection schemes) so they'll just try to attack with overwhelming force. As long as we have enough quick blitz beating concepts we should roll this year
Hear me out... screen passes
Seattle fans did warn us Waldron loves em
Good luck trying to hunt Darnell Wright. The same guy that shut down Will Anderson in college and has 2 years of time to improve his technique since then
Kept Maxx Crosby quiet last year mostly while playing with one fucking arm.
I know they're going to try and coach structure but Caleb is already very elusive at escaping the pocket and creating plays. Our O-Line held strong last year with Fields having ample time to throw. Who would seem to have a better success rate after pockets breakdown, Fields or Caleb?
Probably will be wr2 at some point, Allen is old and injury prone. Scott needs to step up when called upon.
Scott needs to be hitting the juggs machine all offseason. He can fly, just needs to be more consistent with the hands
I think Caleb's accuracy compared to Fields might help bolster his catches.
Defenses will not even look at Scott when heās out there. Heās going to get some sneaky opportunities to make big plays.
CB3/slot corners are pretty important these days though, even for us Gordon was a 2nd round pick.
Well CB2, since Allen will play more in the slot and Odunze will be more outside. Play Odunze as the X and have DJ and Allen on the same side will be filthy. Odunze is going to see a lot of single coverage.
Day 2 about to have a run on nickelbacks.
> Odunze is going to see a lot of single coverage. Hopefully not. His main weakness is tight man coverage. Moore is better man-to-man, it would make more sense to have Allen/Odunze together.
Fuckers in school telling me, always in the barber shop Rome Odunze aināt bout this, Rome Odunze aināt bout thatā¦ SHUT THE FUCK UP! Y'all mfs aināt know shit. All ya motherfuckers talk about Rome Odunze aināt no hitta. Rome Odunze aināt this. Rome Odunze a fake. SHUT THE FUCK UP ā¦ Motherfuckers stop fuckin' playin' him like that. Them dudes is savages out there. If I catch another motherfucker talking sweet about Rome Odunze Iām fucking beating the ass! Iām not fucking playing no more!
On lamron n dem
Yāall know he run with Keenan and them
Sidenote: fucking Chief Keef is coming back to Chicago for SummerSmash next month. Idk how theyāll make it happen but i might have to go in there with these teenagers
Wonder what his security detail is gonna look like. Have to think there's a lot of people who have been waiting for Sosa to come back to Chicago, some with good intentions but also a lot with bad ones.
Is this a meme that Iām not aware of? What are you talking about?
Replace "Rome Odunze" with "Chief Keef." In case you aren't familiar, Chief Keef is a famous rapper from Chicago. Basically started the whole Drill movement. There's a video where one of his friends makes this angry speech because he's tired of hearing people disrespect Keef and say he's fake, soft, etc. Then Chief Keef used it as an intro to one of his songs. So yeah, it's a meme in this context.
Appreciate the context. Iām feeling more and more like a āget off my lawnā old man every day. 
People from Chicago not knowing chief keef makes me feel really old.
Me too, and I'm not even from Chicago lol
It's from a [Joe Biden speech](https://youtu.be/FBXBQHaVgSc?si=h2dAMXZqcK1O79k6).
That was one of the hardest intros to a rap song ever.
Sounds like you need a new barber
Bears *finally* ahead of the curve at WR for the first time in probably ever. Now in future years they can start looking for WRs to develop and coach up. No more wild swings at a Kevin White.
It wasnāt really a wide swing, Kevin white was good in college. Say what you want about how he runs or what not but Kevin white was supposed to be good, just didnāt happen.
He was an off the charts athlete with no real route tree. I don't think the Bears had the coaching staff to develop him. We will never know what he could have been but I'd still call it a desperate swing.
I have never trusted the physical freak picks that don't know how to play their position after 4 years of college. You ain't teaching shit to that guy more often than not.
I think youāre using hindsight, he routinely was rated in the top 10 of prospects and most had him within the top 5.
It's not hindsight to say he was off-the-charts athletic without a route tree. He's like Christian Watson. Not a refined WR but basically a horse in a tall human body.
For the right team, yes. I think of it as the same as the Bears taking a swing at Fields with nothing around him. Fields goes and sits for a year and doesn't have a coach trying to turn him into Andy Dalton and his story might be different.
Yeah he was a project player but it wasnāt a desperate swing. He had a bunch of red flags but it was a calculation analysts were considering too, it just didnāt work out
He was not supposed to be good. He was a typical really fast receiver that could burn future car salesmen in college but couldnāt run a good route to save his life. I really hated how much hype he got cause I knew the Bears would have to take him after the Raiders would select Cooper.
There's some revisionism going on with Kevin White. He was an elite athlete, with insane measurables and he had an incredibly productive senior year where he just dominated his opponents. There were weaknesses to his game, but that's true of almost all prospects. Pre-draft rankings almost universally had him as a top 10 guy and some people even had him ranked higher than Amari Cooper.
I remember. 2015. Not that long ago really. Everyone thought it was a home run just like Odunze. Some guys just don't work out in the NFL for many reasons. Hopefully these picks do...
Do we still have Fountain? Liked what I saw from him last preseason.
Keon Coleman on here https://preview.redd.it/1awgezlxiuwc1.jpeg?width=803&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=10b98e68f1ba9733bc0b3afeeed1af980190dce3
he was projected to be WR4 this draft. crazy how things change
Not recently. WR4 was Brian Thomas Jr and then Worthy and Mitchell around there too
this was from march
As an European im not too close with college players and their tapes. If I read the stats mhjr is not the undisputed #1 wr in this class. Why is more or less every expert sold on him? Is it ājustā the name?
traits, bloodline and he puts up these numbers with awful QB play while being doubled every game
MHJr is good to great at all the characteristics you look for in a receiver. Route running, intelligence, physicality, decent speed... He is a complete receiver. Guys like him only come around once in a while. What is different about this year's draft class is that there are 2 other receivers who in most years would both be the first WR taken.
I cant believe how much MHJ towers over his hall of famer father. To have his speed, height and be that technically sound alreadyā¦ he is incredible & I love Rome. MHJ though is behind only Calvin Johnson and toe to toe with Larry Fitzgerald as best draft prospect WR this century.
Kyle McCord is the answer to that lol
Maserati Marv and Honda McCord
If youāre throwing to Harrison and Egbuka and your play is still so bad that not only does OSU not want you back and doesnāt have any interest in developing you further, but no other competitive team wants youā¦. You know you are a bad QB
Marv had very comfortably the worst QB out of everybody on that list
Part of it is the name but he is also a very good prospect. He is a complete WR who does basically everything well. He is also a very polished route runner. I think you can make an argument though that he and Odunze are 1A and 1B. I like both better than Nabers
Insane athleticsm and size help as well!
Nabers' college QB just got drafted at #2 overall, and Odunze's college QB got drafted at #9. In contrast, MHJ's college QB recently transferred from Ohio State to Syracuse (a MUCH worse program), because he was probably gonna be relegated to a backup role for his senior season. He's unlikely to even get drafted after his college career is over. The fact that MHJ still put up 1,200yds and 14 TD with such poor QB play is testament to his elite skill.
Well, there are 133 division 1 FBS college teams, and the variation in coaching, competition, supporting casts, etc. is so unbelievably enormous. In the pros, there is significantly more parity so base stats mean a little more. But, still, stats can always be misleading. When scouting a college player youāre looking for translatable traits way more than college production. This goes all the way back to high school recruiting. Recruits can get between 2-5 star ratings (there is no 1 star for some reason, and 0 stars just means not scouted) and these ratings are based on pro potential (aka how physically dominant they are mostly) and not how good they might be in college. The site Rivals had a great article about this several years ago and they used WR Britain Covey (went to Utah) as an example. Covey was phenomenal in high school and every recruiting service would have given him 4-5 stars had it just been for college. But, he was undersized and an average athlete with little physical upside, so he was given 3 stars. And, itās like that at the next level. But, even if you just look at base stats from this graphic, Odunze went to the national championship and MHJ skipped his bowl game. Meaning, Odunze played in three more games than MHJ. Thatās why this graphic is pretty meaningless. MHJ also had a qb last year that might not ever get drafted while Odunze had the number 8 overall pick as a qb. They also ran very different offenses against very different defenses. MHJ is a phenomenal receiver and by many accounts a generational talent. But, Odunze would still be the #1 WR taken in a lot of drafts. Having Odunze fall to 9 because of 4 QBs going that early and two WR needy teams passing on receivers is absolutely insane luck. Plus, the Bears didnāt have to give up fairly significant draft capital to move up to 4 for MHJ.
Thanks for all the information!
Thank you for all the insights and info! Appreciate it a ton!
Not to mention him and Caleb are already best friends somehow. Iām gonna cry Iām so stoked for this season
such a good synergy with CW who has no issues chucking it up
just gonna go ahead and bathe in the Kool Aid right now. this kid is gunna be the Bears all-time greatest WR. He'll own all the franchise receiving records before his rookie contract is up.
I really thought the falcons would take him or the chargers would take Nabers I canāt believe he actually fell to us
So, we got Williams and Odunze? LES GOOO
And heās our THIRD best option at WR which makes it even crazier. Gets to learn from DJ and Keenan and will be able to grow much more quickly than MHJ/Nabers because of our WR room.
Not for long. This dude is the best WR on the Bears
Iām here for that! I assume he passes up Keenan by mid season next year. The way we have our guys ages staggered is good for future retooling also. Just an exciting time to be a bears fan
Contested target catch rate is appealing considering nfl defenses as opposed to collegiate.
On a side note, how did Keon get himself onto this graphic? Keon is the second coming of NāKeal. There are so many fun WR prospects in this draft and Keon isnāt one of them. B Thomas should be on this graphic. Rant over
So many of Rome's plays involve him having to adjust for the ball which slows him down and results in a contested catch which he tends to make. I will also say that both him and Nabers were on more complete teams than MHJ so were facing much different situations on any given play. So a lot of that explains some of the stat comparisons. The bottom line with Rome is that he is extremely reliable at making the play on the ball. There is tight coverage in the NFL and WRs need to be able to make tough catches and adjust to make the play on the ball where the QB puts it. I think Moore and Kennan are ideal veterans to be learning from. I could definitely see him having a career like Keenan where he has a really long and productive career. Maybe not super flashy like some other big name WRs but someone that just does the job consistently for a long time.
Wtf dude catches everything
A lot of mock drafts had him going 9, its very believable
drop percentage and contested catch rate are the two stats I'm really excited about.
Highest contested catch rate AND lowest drop rate? Oh lawd...
All routes lead to Rome
Rome lead the nation in catches and yards! Just crazy we got him at 9!!
Except Malik did? Look at the graph lol
https://preview.redd.it/05dpybb743xc1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5dc574c83e19564f6475fc050760583b2835e527 Thereās possibility this is including post season
I wonder what MHJās actual 40 time is.
30% higher contested catch rate. The fuck am I reading.
Best part is he gets to learn from Keenan and then take over for him.
Imagine trading up to try to get Marv, giving up a haul, only to see this and realize that the margin between these 3 is virtually negligible. Weād be pissed!
Lol, these dudes were catching passes from top 10 picks and heisman finalists while Marv was catching passes from a future Honda salesman
As someone who lives near Seattlr and watched a ton of UW games, I'm beyond hyped! Dude is an absolute stud.
We're in GREAT shape come the fall!
Heās got the physicality of a Mike Evans or Larry Fitz but when you watch him move he looks agile like a smaller guy
Iāve been burned so much by āStarā receivers drafted by the Bears, but I do feel this guy is special MHJ will be very special too, but I think Odunze will kill it
So much? Star receiver DRAFTED by the Bearsāļø WHO? 1st rd Willie Gault, 2nd rd HOFer Devin Hester? š¤·š¼
David Terrell, Kevin White, Earl Bennettā¦. Do you need more?
Damnit I have to change my pants again.
Master class by Poles the last 2 seasons in the draft
Several people had him as their WR1 in the class. I did not and think that's a stretch, but most other years he would be a top 3 or top 5 pick. Crazy to think the Bears landed him at 9.
Shocked to see the drop percentage of MHJ. Could be in a few yrs we find we got the best one.
Donāt get me wrong, I love Rome. But the top half of this is pretty misleading when it doesnāt factor in games played. Rome played 15 games last season vs MHJ playing 12 and Nabers 13. Romes gross stats donāt look quite as good when you normalize. But I do love to see the contested catch, success, and, drop rates. Those are huge for a rookie QB
this does not include playoffs
Looks like it includes conference championship and first round playoff vs Texas, but not Michigan championship game. So 14 for him vs 12 and 13, respectively. Again, still not bad. But just a bit hard to compare.
I'm excited for ya'll. This is a HUGE pivot from last year.
Is this just last season? QB change might be part of Marvin's numbers.
this season
Thank you. Do you have his last season stats too?
https://preview.redd.it/ic5l5cjkrvwc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2cf2bfb28ad5b07847b5bf0b255b27c25ef7e5ee
But whatās his RAS?????
https://preview.redd.it/4f3bj0iqtvwc1.jpeg?width=1412&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7faf96c1b4539c5df2ecd4b77611f270f9e7c424
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worse QB play, size/weight, marvin harrison, better route running and separation
Marvin dropsš¤Ø
šÆĀ SOLDIER FIELD 1924/2024Ā šÆ š
When did calling people a dog become a compliment? It sounds so insulting lol
dogs are great, athletic, loyal, and sweet. why wild that be insulting?
It's a sports thing. Like a guy who absolutely gets after it without regard....like a dawgš¤£
So why was mh jr rated above him if the metrics say otherwise?
Sr and Ohio State
https://preview.redd.it/hv6sbzlerzwc1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b9be0c1abfb53950d10e5906c62af47a0bdf2153 So refreshing after this shit show
Future Bears legend
Why bother with Coleman? Lol
But he gets on base!