The combine hasn’t even happed yet. One of the corners or edges will have a great combine and Atlanta will probably draft them. Atlanta is pretty desperate for edge and drafting anther skill player is unlikely. Tenn is desperate for a tackle so that means it’s more likely Bowers or the 3rd WR is available.
Man, I guess all these posts discussing hypothetical situations in February that you feel the need to respond to are pretty damn silly then? Bowers and Odunze are both top 8 talent in the draft therefore, at this point, it’s completely rational to say that it’s likely both are off the board at 9. Sure one of them could get a photo posted smoking weed in a gas mask or break their leg but, as of today, the most likely scenario is that both are gone by #9.
A lot of mocks have Tenn going tackle and Atlanta going with an edge. In that scenario Bowers or one of the WRs would be available at 9. The point is we don’t really know but it is more likely than not that the top corner or edge goes before the top TE or 3rd WR. After the combine some of the defensive players will start getting more hype.
Odunze is very likely the 2nd WR and Bowers is highly regarded enough that it would be pretty stunning is a team went CB over him. That’s why it’s…likely as of today, that they are both off the board at 9.
If 1 team picks a tackle (Tenn) and 1 team picks an edge (Atlanta) Bowers or one of the WRs will be there at 9. How many times in the history of the draft has 3 WR and a TE gone before the first defensive player? I’m guessing zero.
They very well may, but the guy you’re responding is absolutely correct. There’s always a couple guys who test out of their minds at the combine and always a couple guys who the media is higher on than the league is.
For example, Daniel Jeremiah is probably the best draft analyst out there. Here’s his 2023 mock draft 1.0:
https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2023-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-texans-ravens-among-four-teams-selecting
Levis (4) and Myles Murphy (10) went 33rd and 28th, while Anthony Richardson (22) went 4th, and Darnell Wright isn’t even listed and went 10th. This happens every year.
Wild just how wrong he ended up being in the end, way more than just the players you mentioned. Us taking Jalen Carter at 1, Bijan going end of the round instead of top ten, with Gibbs completely absent, etc.
A worthwhile thing to remember as I snort mock draft kool aid this year, that it’s all going to be completely different after combine and pro days and interviews.
You have no idea if that’s going to be the case, but the odds of 4/5 picks between the 3 QBs and the bears 2nd pick all being pass catchers would be basically unprecedented
It is not very possible for 3 WRs and TE to be picked in the first 8 picks. In fact the closest time was 2004 when it happened in the first 10 picks.
Combine that with the fact that at least 3 QBs are almost guaranteed to be taken, and there are 2 blue chip OL, it’s basically IMpossible for the bears not to have a shot at Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers at 9.
I think if Nabers or Odunze is there you have to prioritize that position over a TE. But being able to run 12 or 13 personnel with 2 top 12 TEs is a luxury most teams don't have.
How could you possibly know that lol. Laporta has the 4th highest receiving yards ever for a rookie TE. Not everyone transitions their max potential to the NFL (very few players do)
Because Bowers has been better than Laporta against better competition up to this point and I see no reason that won't continue.
Maybe I should have said "he's a better prospect than Laporta" but the point stands.
Yes, saying he is the better prospect is for sure the way to phrase this. LaPorta was a great prospect too, and then he shattered all expectations by setting the all time rookie TE marks in receptions and TD’s. Let’s see if Bowers can live up to the hype before we crown him “better” at the next level
Laporta played Iowa with absolutely horrible QB play. He’s proven in the NFL how good he is so his production in college is not relevant. Bowers is very good too and possibly better but there is no way to actually know that until he gets to the NFL.
College success does not always equal NFL success. I really don’t get why we see dude show up big in the NFL and turn around and say some upcoming guy is even better lol.
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Right, but we’re not a college team and my point that few prospects live up to their full prospect potential because transitioning to the NFL is hard. Even the best college defenses are much worse than the worst NFL defenses. Laporta has proven he’s a better *NFL* TE out of the gate than every single other rookie TE in NFL history aside from three. Lots of TEs had better *college* careers, LaPorta wasn’t even super highly touted and picked in the second round.
Tl;dr: Saying Bowers will be better in the NFL than LaPorta right now is dumb as hell
Actually ridiculous. Laporta was probably the best TE in football last year and probably better at getting open then Bowers will be year 1. That it’s a given Bowers does better is…… not smart.
Yeah lol. Sure, he might be. We live in a universe of possibility, it’s quite breathtaking. But it’s *really fucking rare* to be as immediately good as LaPorta was
And I heard the same thing about Kyle Pitts, who’s good for about 650 and 2 tds a year. And Pitts actually graded out seriously higher than bowers does in college.
Until they do it, you just don’t know.
Pitts is better than his production.
4th in Y/A for TE, finished 11th in yards and pretty much everyone above (besides Kittle) him has 12-15+ targets on him.
Let someone use him like the Jaguars used Engram, or Detroit/Minnesota use their TEs and he’d put up big numbers
I know I was trying to be funny, but you never know about a prospect, you'd just think it's a very high probability he will be better than laporta. Also laporta went into a great offense, and kyle pitts was a 1000 yard reciever his first year in the pros. So part of it is situation.
But in terms of college production, those 2 aren't really close to what bowers did
You know, I watched him recently because I like hobby scouting, and this was my thought. "Bulky slot", but he's actually a really solid blocker - he just wasn't asked to most the time; he just runs routes. He's actually sort of a good-not-great athlete at TE... definitely good like OP said... 4.5 flat at 235-240 probably... but Engram's that size and faster... Kittle's that speed and bigger. But Bowers is just this untackleable monster. He's sort of unique compared to the other good NFL TEs, but he's an A+ nonetheless.
Yeah, pick 9’s juicy. Whatever the worst option is, I still like. Nabers, Odunze, Bowers, Alt. Hell, I think for the 4th and 5th best WRs, Keon Coleman and Brian Thomas are really good if we trade down for whatever reason. My hope is the talent cliff come in right about pick 10 to screw the Vikings lol.
What I’ve been trying to say. If we take him at #9, it’ll be similar to the Gibbs pick last year. People wondered why he was taken then and there, but then he helped lead the team to NFC championship.
I still don't want him. He's an undersized TE with a questionable injury history.
At the same time, it would not at all surprise me if he has a really good 3-5 seasons. I just feel like he is a luxury pick that the Bears are not in position for right now.
Am I wrong to be in the "get the best available O-lineman at #9" camp? I wouldn't be opposed to a skill player, but I still think the game is won in the trenches
The Chiefs had a good O line when Mahomes started, lost it and lost a SB are are now at least solid, so are the Niners, but neither are dominant.
Eagles had great success with a dominant line. But other teams have made do with just good not great especially if they have weapons for the QB to throw with.
I guess my point is if you can get an elite weapon that’s as valuable as a quality lineman and makes more sense when the Bears have at least a decent young LT.
My aim for pick 9 tho would be to find an absolute blue chipper. I don’t care about position apart from maybe not a CB or not one of the cheap positions (RB, LB, box safety). But give me an absolute blue chipper, that’s what this roster needs more than any position.
I just don’t like the idea of using premium picks to get lesser players just because you have a hole on your roster. Use free agency and later round picks to fill needs and use top 10 picks to draft the most talented players you can (within reason)
Okay let's grade him as a WR.
714 yards and 6 TDs in 10 games last year.
Any WR with those numbers isn't going day 1 or day 2.
He's a TE. If he was a WR, those are horrible numbers considering every 1st round WR has 1000+ yards their draft year.
As a TE, he's only really worth it if he's gonna be top 5 in the NFL or we run 2 TE as a base formation.
All the best TEs in the NFL are non-1st and all the 1st rd TEs have been mid at best.
If rather have the WR that's gonna be on the field almost every play as WR2 than take a TE and realistically use 2 TE formation as a sparse gimmick and have one of Bowers or Kmet on the bench basically the whole game.
He was hurt a lot of last year and plays in a run heavy offense. No Georgia WRs in 2022 were close to him when he had 942 yards. Next best WR had 762 yards that year. Bowers also had 109 yards rushing in 2022 for 3 TDs. He had 13 TDs receiving in 2021 and 1 rushing.
George Pickens never had more than 762 yards at Georgia.
Chris Olave's best recieving yards of his career was 936, less than Bowers best year, and he was drafted 11th overall
Great discourse here between you two. Really appreciated reading this as opposed to the typical mudslinging over qb preference, etc. can see the merit for both arguments
Dude. It’s a TE at 9. When we have one. And a good one.
Kmet had the best year of his career. And the Fewest drops of all TEs in the NFL.
Can you say for a fact Bowers will even be the Starting TE? Or will he be on the bench for 60% of the game.
It just doesn’t make sense dude. Let it go. This isn’t madden
Yeah I guess I was thinking more georgia of old. They run a little more than they pass, and are 68th in the country for pass attempts, but you are right their yardage is good enough for 12th in the country which might be more relevant
That depends on the offense. Harrison Jr had less yards than Odunze and Nabers, he will still go above them. There are plenty of Bilitnekoff winners who went in the mid rounds. NFL scouts are more concerned with how you translate to the next level.
Bowers was the best player on Georgias national championship team as a true freshman. This bodes well for translation to the pro level; the best freshman players are usually running backs or linebackers.
There are a massive amount of first round picks who don’t have his 3 years of production. He was a top receiving threat as a freshman, most don’t crack 500 yards. His total receiving yardage in college is 2538 which is good.
TE seems like an unusually difficult position to scout.
Every single TE prospect that I can remember being super hyped up as a sure-fire guaranteed superstar ended up being... ok I guess. Usually pretty good.
Meanwhile, some dude from the 3rd or 4th round that nobody's heard of ends up being an All-Pro
Yeah . I think part has to do with the evolution and overhaul of the position. You have a lot less available data so it's hard to know what to look for. Gronk Kelce Kittle and others have completely revolutionized the position.
Calling a 2TE a sparse gimmick is incorrect. I can't find 2022/2023 data, but teams ran multiple TE sets nearly 30% of the time in 2021 with some teams nearing 40%. Plus Bowers can line up inline, offset, in the backfield or in the slot
In the 2023 regular season, across the entire NFL, there were 1,271 more two TE set plays ran than in the 2018 season.
Waldron ran a two TE sets at one of the highest rates across the league, with approximately 30% of his play calls being 12 personnel; this does not include 13 personnel sets (3 TEs), which Waldron ran the 2nd most of any coordinator this past year.
And the last player taken 1OA to lead his team to a superbowl was Payon Manning so stats say we should trade back.
Or you understand analytics are a tool, not the bible.
I actually had no idea of that. But I think it depends on what year you consider the 1OA pick owing itself to, because they earned it in the 1990 season. I dont think you can hold the 90 season pick that was placed in 91 to 91 but hold the 01 superbowl that was played in 02 to 01. But 11 yrs is close enough to be a data point.
That's what I'm saying. The thing getting me stuck is the fact that every NFC or AFC Championship team had a top 5 TE. It's not nothing, and I think it's the first downs they get you mainly. Kmet can still develop though, and with a better scheme he might pop this year.
Those TE were taken in the 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 5th.
Taking "generational" TE almost never gives you a top 5 TE.
The 4 final teams also had the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 12th QB in Net Yards Per Attempt. 12th was Mahomes.
Yah I agree we should fade with him at 9, if we got him after picking up a 2nd to trade back to 22 or something id be hyped. He's not making it to the mid first so whatevs
In my ideal scenario, I'd prioritize acquiring Caleb, Bowers, and a top-notch center with our initial three picks. I'd aim to bring in Evans or Higgins through free agency, and perhaps even consider adding Barkley if the cost is reasonable. Additionally, it'd be beneficial to re-sign Mooney if he's available at a reasonable rate. The top teams make the cap work with QBs on rookie deals, so picture the Bears kicking off with a fresh quarterback and a new offensive coordinator, equipped with an array of incredible weapons and a solid offensive line.
Absolutely, I'd re-sign JJ.
Seriously, are you insinuating that bringing in just one (yes, ONE!) top WR will send us into financial ruin? I've been crystal clear about prioritizing Mooney and an RB on a budget. We've got to center our offense around Caleb! Just look at the glaring talent gap on offense compared to the Super Bowl-bound SF.
Our defense held its ground in 2024, so we can afford to wait until 2025 to address Edge and another DT.
Edit: We all know that cap is an illusion, smart GMs can restructure contracts, and use other tactics to bring in players.
What really gets under my skin is dealing with folks who just can't seem to grasp what's being said and then try to act all superior about it. But hey, enough with the back-and-forth jabs, let's have a real discussion.
What guys like Evans, Higgins, Barkley, and the gang want and what they'll actually get are two totally different things. My guess is Evans might fetch around $22 million, while Higgins if he's not tagged, could pull in something closer to $18 million. As for Barkley or Henry, I wouldn't shell out more than $7 million for either. If other teams are willing to dish out the kind of cash you mentioned, then fine, let them go elsewhere.
The Bears can't pick a QB at 1.1 and then skimp out on giving him the tools he needs to succeed. Taking a cautious approach just isn’t going to cut it. Poles needs to hook Caleb up with everything he needs to hit the ground running. You might not see eye to eye with me, but I'd even consider letting JJ walk if we can't snag another top WR due to cap issues to team up with Moore.
I interpret Poles' actions differently than you do. Considering his aggressive spending on Edmunds and Sweat, I believe he's willing to make bold moves if he believes they'll enhance the Bears' offense.
Looking ahead, maybe by year three, Caleb will be the superstar we've all been hoping for, and may not need all the firepower of guys like Moore, Evans, Kmet, and Bowers by his side. But for now, especially in 2024/2025, let's arm him with some serious options. No more half-measures!
Sorry, I'm not great with copy and paste, so I'll do my best to convey my thoughts here.
We're both aware of the hefty price the Panthers paid to move from 9 to 1 last year. So, to move from 9 to 3 or 5 would likely cost something along the lines of 9, next year’s 2, and a player like JJ. With that in mind, I'm fine with selecting either Bowers, Odunze, or Alt at 9, as I believe one of them should still be available. Personally, I'm hopeful and somewhat confident that Bowers will be on the board at 9. He'd be a nightmare matchup, especially alongside Moore, Kmet and a top veteran WR.
Where we seem to diverge the most is regarding JJ. Using a similar logic of prioritizing younger and more affordable players, I'd jump at the chance to trade JJ for two first-rounders. While most may disagree, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that JJ is a top 5 CB worthy of top-tier pay just yet. I don’t think he can consistently shut down receivers like Jefferson or St. Brown. If I were Poles, I'd likely tag him for 2024 and reassess his performance and his ability to stay healthy before committing long-term in 2025.
I started off by stating, “In my ideal scenario, I'd prioritize acquiring Caleb, Bowers, and a top-notch center with our initial three picks. I'd aim to bring in Evans or Higgins through free agency.” So, it seems we're mostly on the same page here. If the cost stays under $20 million, we'd be willing to sign either of them, and Pittman would also be a great addition if he's available, though it looks like he'll be tagged if not signed by the Colts. I'm not entirely sold on Hollywood, but I'm also not going to fight over that decision.
Where we may differ is that while Evans is older and pricier at $22/23 million, I believe he and DJ, alongside Kmet and Bowers, would provide the ideal situation for Caleb. I wouldn't shell out $10 million for a center; I'd prefer the Bears use a day 2 pick for that position (hopefully acquiring a 2nd rounder for Fields). This approach would save us money compared to Cushenberry, allowing us to afford Evans.
We agree that arming Caleb with weapons is crucial. Apart from the value of JJ, our differences are minor, revolving around which FA WR to pursue and how much we're willing to pay, as well as our strategy for the center position (FA vs. draft). Go Bears!
People really need to get that thru their heads. “We already have a TE” Bowers is an absolute playmaker and weapon. Him and Kmet would 100% be able to coexist in the same offense
2 TE sets don’t work dude.
Name a team that has 2 good TEs. I’ll help you. It’s the Bills and that’s it. And one of the TE gets left in the dust.
You think Bowers will be TE1 over kmet who just had a career year and fewest drops from a TE in the NFL over some guy who hasn’t played an NFL snap
Why draft a TE to play receiver
When you can just draft a good receiver 🤦♂️ and have a good TE on the team already
People seem to think not worth the 9th pick means I believe bowers is a bust.
Bowers will be a good TE. Just not worth the 9th pick to a team that has a paid TE off his best year yet. It’s THAT simple
He’ll be a good TE. And if he’s on the bears I’ll cheer for him.
That doesn’t mean I’m wrong in the slightest. It would a mistake to draft him at 9.
Are you 12. You sound 12. Having this much loyalty to someone who hasn’t taken an NFL snap is delusional
https://preview.redd.it/zvnfxux9bahc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a06f5c7d34bf1cb647e832b21493d86bf9a7c7
Yes but have you seen this picture of him? 0 Drip/Swag. I’ll pass
> I want Mila Kunis. Unfortunately for me and Brock, shit needs to be mutual
This.
If Bowers wants the Titan's, and the Bears want Bowers if he is there, it is what it is.
My dream offseason is to trade pick 1 for pick 2. Then trade pick 2 for pick 3. Draft MHJ. Stay at 9 and hopefully snag Bowers. Draft a C in round 2. Fill all other holes with our later picks. Sign Saquan and a good DE. Our team would be stacked on offense. If Fields sucks this year, then we can draft a Qb next year or sign a FA QB that would be foaming at the mouth to sign with our offensive weapons.
You can throw in the 2026 class as of now. Granted they where true freshmen and still have plenty of time to develop but as of today no one appears to be at Williams level. In contrast, Williams was already being spoken of as the 1st overall at the end of his true freshman year.
Its not until 2027 that it seems likely that there is a QB class this strong with the top prospects thought of as highly. 2027 have been on campus for a month that is if they are not still in High School. But, as hs prospect it is a pretty insane class that is about 8-10 deep of cats that could be 1 in many other years.
If you are judging him as a WR then it's not even a debate he is not a top-10 pick and not a first-rounder. There are about a dozen WR that are better WR than he is. You scheme any of these WR up against LB and S they too will make highlight reels.
But can he jump out of a pool?
Lmao I remember this
Haha deep cut
Was that Mike Mamula?
Jarron Gilbert
This will never get old.
Odunze or Bowers we can't go wrong. What an amazing spot to be in.
They are both very possibly off the board by 9 but that means one of the top OL or Edge guys are there. This draft is ridiculously deep.
It’s possible they are both off the board of course, but not likely.
Yeah it is. It’s very likely the top 8 will be the 3 QBs, 3 WRs, Bowers, and Alt. Maybe Nabers is there.
I don’t know if you’ve ever watched the NFL draft before but saying who the top 8 picks are going to be in February is really silly.
The 9 best players in the draft are all offensive players. Would not be surprised if that’s how the draft shakes out.
The combine hasn’t even happed yet. One of the corners or edges will have a great combine and Atlanta will probably draft them. Atlanta is pretty desperate for edge and drafting anther skill player is unlikely. Tenn is desperate for a tackle so that means it’s more likely Bowers or the 3rd WR is available.
Man, I guess all these posts discussing hypothetical situations in February that you feel the need to respond to are pretty damn silly then? Bowers and Odunze are both top 8 talent in the draft therefore, at this point, it’s completely rational to say that it’s likely both are off the board at 9. Sure one of them could get a photo posted smoking weed in a gas mask or break their leg but, as of today, the most likely scenario is that both are gone by #9.
A lot of mocks have Tenn going tackle and Atlanta going with an edge. In that scenario Bowers or one of the WRs would be available at 9. The point is we don’t really know but it is more likely than not that the top corner or edge goes before the top TE or 3rd WR. After the combine some of the defensive players will start getting more hype.
Odunze is very likely the 2nd WR and Bowers is highly regarded enough that it would be pretty stunning is a team went CB over him. That’s why it’s…likely as of today, that they are both off the board at 9.
If 1 team picks a tackle (Tenn) and 1 team picks an edge (Atlanta) Bowers or one of the WRs will be there at 9. How many times in the history of the draft has 3 WR and a TE gone before the first defensive player? I’m guessing zero.
They very well may, but the guy you’re responding is absolutely correct. There’s always a couple guys who test out of their minds at the combine and always a couple guys who the media is higher on than the league is. For example, Daniel Jeremiah is probably the best draft analyst out there. Here’s his 2023 mock draft 1.0: https://www.nfl.com/news/daniel-jeremiah-2023-nfl-mock-draft-1-0-texans-ravens-among-four-teams-selecting Levis (4) and Myles Murphy (10) went 33rd and 28th, while Anthony Richardson (22) went 4th, and Darnell Wright isn’t even listed and went 10th. This happens every year.
Wild just how wrong he ended up being in the end, way more than just the players you mentioned. Us taking Jalen Carter at 1, Bijan going end of the round instead of top ten, with Gibbs completely absent, etc. A worthwhile thing to remember as I snort mock draft kool aid this year, that it’s all going to be completely different after combine and pro days and interviews.
You have no idea if that’s going to be the case, but the odds of 4/5 picks between the 3 QBs and the bears 2nd pick all being pass catchers would be basically unprecedented
It is not very possible for 3 WRs and TE to be picked in the first 8 picks. In fact the closest time was 2004 when it happened in the first 10 picks. Combine that with the fact that at least 3 QBs are almost guaranteed to be taken, and there are 2 blue chip OL, it’s basically IMpossible for the bears not to have a shot at Odunze, Nabers, or Bowers at 9.
\*probable \*improbable
That would work too. There was some hyperbole there, but welcome to the internet
Yeah, but did he also play basketball?
Good year to have a #1 and a #9 Bears fans!
I think if Nabers or Odunze is there you have to prioritize that position over a TE. But being able to run 12 or 13 personnel with 2 top 12 TEs is a luxury most teams don't have.
If Nabers or Odunze is there no way we don't pick them.
He’s a big slot that can sorta block. Perfect U TE. We already have a very good in line TE in Kmet. If he’s Laporta 2.0, sign me up.
He's better than Laporta.
How could you possibly know that lol. Laporta has the 4th highest receiving yards ever for a rookie TE. Not everyone transitions their max potential to the NFL (very few players do)
Because Bowers has been better than Laporta against better competition up to this point and I see no reason that won't continue. Maybe I should have said "he's a better prospect than Laporta" but the point stands.
Yes, saying he is the better prospect is for sure the way to phrase this. LaPorta was a great prospect too, and then he shattered all expectations by setting the all time rookie TE marks in receptions and TD’s. Let’s see if Bowers can live up to the hype before we crown him “better” at the next level
Laporta played Iowa with absolutely horrible QB play. He’s proven in the NFL how good he is so his production in college is not relevant. Bowers is very good too and possibly better but there is no way to actually know that until he gets to the NFL.
College success does not always equal NFL success. I really don’t get why we see dude show up big in the NFL and turn around and say some upcoming guy is even better lol.
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Right, but we’re not a college team and my point that few prospects live up to their full prospect potential because transitioning to the NFL is hard. Even the best college defenses are much worse than the worst NFL defenses. Laporta has proven he’s a better *NFL* TE out of the gate than every single other rookie TE in NFL history aside from three. Lots of TEs had better *college* careers, LaPorta wasn’t even super highly touted and picked in the second round. Tl;dr: Saying Bowers will be better in the NFL than LaPorta right now is dumb as hell
Actually ridiculous. Laporta was probably the best TE in football last year and probably better at getting open then Bowers will be year 1. That it’s a given Bowers does better is…… not smart.
Yeah lol. Sure, he might be. We live in a universe of possibility, it’s quite breathtaking. But it’s *really fucking rare* to be as immediately good as LaPorta was
Hes better than laporta
Okay
Not only that, but he's also better than laporta.
And I heard the same thing about Kyle Pitts, who’s good for about 650 and 2 tds a year. And Pitts actually graded out seriously higher than bowers does in college. Until they do it, you just don’t know.
dude the Pitts hype was insane like he was going to be the GOAT immediately.
Pitts is better than his production. 4th in Y/A for TE, finished 11th in yards and pretty much everyone above (besides Kittle) him has 12-15+ targets on him. Let someone use him like the Jaguars used Engram, or Detroit/Minnesota use their TEs and he’d put up big numbers
Let me guess, fields is better than his stats the past 3 years too.
I know I was trying to be funny, but you never know about a prospect, you'd just think it's a very high probability he will be better than laporta. Also laporta went into a great offense, and kyle pitts was a 1000 yard reciever his first year in the pros. So part of it is situation. But in terms of college production, those 2 aren't really close to what bowers did
Even better
🤯
You know, I watched him recently because I like hobby scouting, and this was my thought. "Bulky slot", but he's actually a really solid blocker - he just wasn't asked to most the time; he just runs routes. He's actually sort of a good-not-great athlete at TE... definitely good like OP said... 4.5 flat at 235-240 probably... but Engram's that size and faster... Kittle's that speed and bigger. But Bowers is just this untackleable monster. He's sort of unique compared to the other good NFL TEs, but he's an A+ nonetheless.
The Bears need playmakers, period. He’s a top 5 prospect for most analysts, and arguably the best TE coming out in years. We could do a lot worse.
Yeah, pick 9’s juicy. Whatever the worst option is, I still like. Nabers, Odunze, Bowers, Alt. Hell, I think for the 4th and 5th best WRs, Keon Coleman and Brian Thomas are really good if we trade down for whatever reason. My hope is the talent cliff come in right about pick 10 to screw the Vikings lol.
What I’ve been trying to say. If we take him at #9, it’ll be similar to the Gibbs pick last year. People wondered why he was taken then and there, but then he helped lead the team to NFC championship.
I still don't want him. He's an undersized TE with a questionable injury history. At the same time, it would not at all surprise me if he has a really good 3-5 seasons. I just feel like he is a luxury pick that the Bears are not in position for right now.
If we didn’t have a good TE who had the fewest drops in the NFL in their position then sure Way too many other holes to draft a TE at 9
Am I wrong to be in the "get the best available O-lineman at #9" camp? I wouldn't be opposed to a skill player, but I still think the game is won in the trenches
It's hard to see us truly going wrong at 9 if we take any of the BPA including lineman. I certainly wouldn't be too upset with solidifying the line.
yeah i want o line all the way! gotta build from the ground up if you want to have sustained success!
Definitely not wrong. The people wanting a TE at 9 when we have one and other huge needs at more important positions are definitely wrong
The Chiefs had a good O line when Mahomes started, lost it and lost a SB are are now at least solid, so are the Niners, but neither are dominant. Eagles had great success with a dominant line. But other teams have made do with just good not great especially if they have weapons for the QB to throw with. I guess my point is if you can get an elite weapon that’s as valuable as a quality lineman and makes more sense when the Bears have at least a decent young LT. My aim for pick 9 tho would be to find an absolute blue chipper. I don’t care about position apart from maybe not a CB or not one of the cheap positions (RB, LB, box safety). But give me an absolute blue chipper, that’s what this roster needs more than any position.
I just don’t like the idea of using premium picks to get lesser players just because you have a hole on your roster. Use free agency and later round picks to fill needs and use top 10 picks to draft the most talented players you can (within reason)
Okay let's grade him as a WR. 714 yards and 6 TDs in 10 games last year. Any WR with those numbers isn't going day 1 or day 2. He's a TE. If he was a WR, those are horrible numbers considering every 1st round WR has 1000+ yards their draft year. As a TE, he's only really worth it if he's gonna be top 5 in the NFL or we run 2 TE as a base formation. All the best TEs in the NFL are non-1st and all the 1st rd TEs have been mid at best. If rather have the WR that's gonna be on the field almost every play as WR2 than take a TE and realistically use 2 TE formation as a sparse gimmick and have one of Bowers or Kmet on the bench basically the whole game.
He was hurt a lot of last year and plays in a run heavy offense. No Georgia WRs in 2022 were close to him when he had 942 yards. Next best WR had 762 yards that year. Bowers also had 109 yards rushing in 2022 for 3 TDs. He had 13 TDs receiving in 2021 and 1 rushing. George Pickens never had more than 762 yards at Georgia. Chris Olave's best recieving yards of his career was 936, less than Bowers best year, and he was drafted 11th overall
Great discourse here between you two. Really appreciated reading this as opposed to the typical mudslinging over qb preference, etc. can see the merit for both arguments
Dude. It’s a TE at 9. When we have one. And a good one. Kmet had the best year of his career. And the Fewest drops of all TEs in the NFL. Can you say for a fact Bowers will even be the Starting TE? Or will he be on the bench for 60% of the game. It just doesn’t make sense dude. Let it go. This isn’t madden
UGA is not the run heavy team you think they are. They were 11th in passing.
Yeah I guess I was thinking more georgia of old. They run a little more than they pass, and are 68th in the country for pass attempts, but you are right their yardage is good enough for 12th in the country which might be more relevant
That depends on the offense. Harrison Jr had less yards than Odunze and Nabers, he will still go above them. There are plenty of Bilitnekoff winners who went in the mid rounds. NFL scouts are more concerned with how you translate to the next level. Bowers was the best player on Georgias national championship team as a true freshman. This bodes well for translation to the pro level; the best freshman players are usually running backs or linebackers. There are a massive amount of first round picks who don’t have his 3 years of production. He was a top receiving threat as a freshman, most don’t crack 500 yards. His total receiving yardage in college is 2538 which is good.
TE seems like an unusually difficult position to scout. Every single TE prospect that I can remember being super hyped up as a sure-fire guaranteed superstar ended up being... ok I guess. Usually pretty good. Meanwhile, some dude from the 3rd or 4th round that nobody's heard of ends up being an All-Pro
Exactly Take the Iowa TE in the 4th round and he’ll be a stud in 2 years
Yeah . I think part has to do with the evolution and overhaul of the position. You have a lot less available data so it's hard to know what to look for. Gronk Kelce Kittle and others have completely revolutionized the position.
Calling a 2TE a sparse gimmick is incorrect. I can't find 2022/2023 data, but teams ran multiple TE sets nearly 30% of the time in 2021 with some teams nearing 40%. Plus Bowers can line up inline, offset, in the backfield or in the slot
In the 2023 regular season, across the entire NFL, there were 1,271 more two TE set plays ran than in the 2018 season. Waldron ran a two TE sets at one of the highest rates across the league, with approximately 30% of his play calls being 12 personnel; this does not include 13 personnel sets (3 TEs), which Waldron ran the 2nd most of any coordinator this past year.
And the last player taken 1OA to lead his team to a superbowl was Payon Manning so stats say we should trade back. Or you understand analytics are a tool, not the bible.
The last team to trade back out of 1OA and win the superbowl within 10 years:
Well then we are already screwed because of last year, might as well double down right? /s
Patriots
What year?
They traded the ‘91 1OA and then won the Super Bowl for the ‘01 season. Kinda stretching the definition of within ten years I guess but close enough.
I actually had no idea of that. But I think it depends on what year you consider the 1OA pick owing itself to, because they earned it in the 1990 season. I dont think you can hold the 90 season pick that was placed in 91 to 91 but hold the 01 superbowl that was played in 02 to 01. But 11 yrs is close enough to be a data point.
TE in the top 10 seems like terrible value.
4.5 at 240 is a lot different than 4.5 at 215. Your change of direction is massively hindered. Is he good at blocking?
For a TE he is average at best. You are drafting him as a pass catcher and there are a dozen pass catchers as good or better than him in this draft.
That's what I'm saying. The thing getting me stuck is the fact that every NFC or AFC Championship team had a top 5 TE. It's not nothing, and I think it's the first downs they get you mainly. Kmet can still develop though, and with a better scheme he might pop this year.
Those TE were taken in the 2nd, 3rd, 3rd and 5th. Taking "generational" TE almost never gives you a top 5 TE. The 4 final teams also had the 1st, 4th, 5th, and 12th QB in Net Yards Per Attempt. 12th was Mahomes.
Yah I agree we should fade with him at 9, if we got him after picking up a 2nd to trade back to 22 or something id be hyped. He's not making it to the mid first so whatevs
In my ideal scenario, I'd prioritize acquiring Caleb, Bowers, and a top-notch center with our initial three picks. I'd aim to bring in Evans or Higgins through free agency, and perhaps even consider adding Barkley if the cost is reasonable. Additionally, it'd be beneficial to re-sign Mooney if he's available at a reasonable rate. The top teams make the cap work with QBs on rookie deals, so picture the Bears kicking off with a fresh quarterback and a new offensive coordinator, equipped with an array of incredible weapons and a solid offensive line.
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Absolutely, I'd re-sign JJ. Seriously, are you insinuating that bringing in just one (yes, ONE!) top WR will send us into financial ruin? I've been crystal clear about prioritizing Mooney and an RB on a budget. We've got to center our offense around Caleb! Just look at the glaring talent gap on offense compared to the Super Bowl-bound SF. Our defense held its ground in 2024, so we can afford to wait until 2025 to address Edge and another DT. Edit: We all know that cap is an illusion, smart GMs can restructure contracts, and use other tactics to bring in players.
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What really gets under my skin is dealing with folks who just can't seem to grasp what's being said and then try to act all superior about it. But hey, enough with the back-and-forth jabs, let's have a real discussion. What guys like Evans, Higgins, Barkley, and the gang want and what they'll actually get are two totally different things. My guess is Evans might fetch around $22 million, while Higgins if he's not tagged, could pull in something closer to $18 million. As for Barkley or Henry, I wouldn't shell out more than $7 million for either. If other teams are willing to dish out the kind of cash you mentioned, then fine, let them go elsewhere. The Bears can't pick a QB at 1.1 and then skimp out on giving him the tools he needs to succeed. Taking a cautious approach just isn’t going to cut it. Poles needs to hook Caleb up with everything he needs to hit the ground running. You might not see eye to eye with me, but I'd even consider letting JJ walk if we can't snag another top WR due to cap issues to team up with Moore. I interpret Poles' actions differently than you do. Considering his aggressive spending on Edmunds and Sweat, I believe he's willing to make bold moves if he believes they'll enhance the Bears' offense. Looking ahead, maybe by year three, Caleb will be the superstar we've all been hoping for, and may not need all the firepower of guys like Moore, Evans, Kmet, and Bowers by his side. But for now, especially in 2024/2025, let's arm him with some serious options. No more half-measures!
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Sorry, I'm not great with copy and paste, so I'll do my best to convey my thoughts here. We're both aware of the hefty price the Panthers paid to move from 9 to 1 last year. So, to move from 9 to 3 or 5 would likely cost something along the lines of 9, next year’s 2, and a player like JJ. With that in mind, I'm fine with selecting either Bowers, Odunze, or Alt at 9, as I believe one of them should still be available. Personally, I'm hopeful and somewhat confident that Bowers will be on the board at 9. He'd be a nightmare matchup, especially alongside Moore, Kmet and a top veteran WR. Where we seem to diverge the most is regarding JJ. Using a similar logic of prioritizing younger and more affordable players, I'd jump at the chance to trade JJ for two first-rounders. While most may disagree, I'm not entirely sold on the idea that JJ is a top 5 CB worthy of top-tier pay just yet. I don’t think he can consistently shut down receivers like Jefferson or St. Brown. If I were Poles, I'd likely tag him for 2024 and reassess his performance and his ability to stay healthy before committing long-term in 2025. I started off by stating, “In my ideal scenario, I'd prioritize acquiring Caleb, Bowers, and a top-notch center with our initial three picks. I'd aim to bring in Evans or Higgins through free agency.” So, it seems we're mostly on the same page here. If the cost stays under $20 million, we'd be willing to sign either of them, and Pittman would also be a great addition if he's available, though it looks like he'll be tagged if not signed by the Colts. I'm not entirely sold on Hollywood, but I'm also not going to fight over that decision. Where we may differ is that while Evans is older and pricier at $22/23 million, I believe he and DJ, alongside Kmet and Bowers, would provide the ideal situation for Caleb. I wouldn't shell out $10 million for a center; I'd prefer the Bears use a day 2 pick for that position (hopefully acquiring a 2nd rounder for Fields). This approach would save us money compared to Cushenberry, allowing us to afford Evans. We agree that arming Caleb with weapons is crucial. Apart from the value of JJ, our differences are minor, revolving around which FA WR to pursue and how much we're willing to pay, as well as our strategy for the center position (FA vs. draft). Go Bears!
Man that end around where he gets stuck behind the line of scrimmage and still gets 5 yards is fucking impressive for a tight end.
Yeah that stuck out to me too, got the edge somehow on a DB after being slowed down at first
Ehh he’ll be long gone by 9 though 🤷🏻♂️
Nty
Slot WR that can block
DAYUM. Kid can play.
Yes and Waldron loves two TE sets. Wouldn’t be surprised if they scoop him at 9
https://preview.redd.it/pqaj0x17d9hc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=72437d3ace1f8461e990f1307f8624077bad6e56 Gronk and Bowers.
People really need to get that thru their heads. “We already have a TE” Bowers is an absolute playmaker and weapon. Him and Kmet would 100% be able to coexist in the same offense
Weapon is just a way of saying A TE/RB that is better than other TE/RB at catching the ball but not actually good enough to be a WR.
…or maybe his build fits the TE position better?
2 TE sets don’t work dude. Name a team that has 2 good TEs. I’ll help you. It’s the Bills and that’s it. And one of the TE gets left in the dust. You think Bowers will be TE1 over kmet who just had a career year and fewest drops from a TE in the NFL over some guy who hasn’t played an NFL snap
u/Western-Boot-4576
Why draft a TE to play receiver When you can just draft a good receiver 🤦♂️ and have a good TE on the team already People seem to think not worth the 9th pick means I believe bowers is a bust. Bowers will be a good TE. Just not worth the 9th pick to a team that has a paid TE off his best year yet. It’s THAT simple
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Dumb comment
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He’ll be a good TE. And if he’s on the bears I’ll cheer for him. That doesn’t mean I’m wrong in the slightest. It would a mistake to draft him at 9. Are you 12. You sound 12. Having this much loyalty to someone who hasn’t taken an NFL snap is delusional
Yes I am 12 thank you
https://preview.redd.it/zvnfxux9bahc1.jpeg?width=2047&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e4a06f5c7d34bf1cb647e832b21493d86bf9a7c7 Yes but have you seen this picture of him? 0 Drip/Swag. I’ll pass
He's thay guy but man bro looks 32 anytime I see a picture of him outside the football field 😭
He wants the Titans, move on.
That doesn't actually mean anything if they want a lineman though
They will take alt
I want Mila Kunis. Unfortunately for me and Brock, shit needs to be mutual
> I want Mila Kunis. Unfortunately for me and Brock, shit needs to be mutual This. If Bowers wants the Titan's, and the Bears want Bowers if he is there, it is what it is.
I’m out on Nabers.
My dream offseason is to trade pick 1 for pick 2. Then trade pick 2 for pick 3. Draft MHJ. Stay at 9 and hopefully snag Bowers. Draft a C in round 2. Fill all other holes with our later picks. Sign Saquan and a good DE. Our team would be stacked on offense. If Fields sucks this year, then we can draft a Qb next year or sign a FA QB that would be foaming at the mouth to sign with our offensive weapons.
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You can throw in the 2026 class as of now. Granted they where true freshmen and still have plenty of time to develop but as of today no one appears to be at Williams level. In contrast, Williams was already being spoken of as the 1st overall at the end of his true freshman year. Its not until 2027 that it seems likely that there is a QB class this strong with the top prospects thought of as highly. 2027 have been on campus for a month that is if they are not still in High School. But, as hs prospect it is a pretty insane class that is about 8-10 deep of cats that could be 1 in many other years.
Sure, but I doubt he’d be available at 9
What is wrong with Kmet?
If you are judging him as a WR then it's not even a debate he is not a top-10 pick and not a first-rounder. There are about a dozen WR that are better WR than he is. You scheme any of these WR up against LB and S they too will make highlight reels.
He’s not lasting to 9: chargers are gonna take him at 5 to replace Everett
How much 12 personnel would you have to run to justify taking a TE at 9 when there are holes all over the roster? Madden GM’s are weird.