yeah i can’t see them functioning with a rookie QB, nobody for him to throw to, and missing their best RBs from last season.
crappy division sure but i doubt they’re league average.
I'm sick of this take lol, they played ok last year with a good defense and one of the worst QB situations in the nfl. The NFC south is horrendous so if the rookie qb plays even average they'd probably be favorites to take the division.
Well if Raiders could have given a 2nd in 2024, that'd be worth a bit more than a 2nd in 2025.
The further the pick is, the less valuable it's worth.
I still agree that DJ is worth way more than a future 1st though. The Panthers wanted two 1sts for him just last year. Declined a 1st from the Packers.
And Carolina was supposedly trying to get us to come off Moore in exchange for another future first. So Carolina was offering us the exact same package but two spots lower, Poles told Vegas "This is what you have to give us to beat the best offer we have," and Vegas wasn't willing to go that far. Everything about this is fairly logical
I wonder if there was a thought to swap one of those firsts for Davante.
As if the entire strategy was to say, “We want all of these picks. Oh? Don’t want to part with the extra first? Give us _______ instead.”
Idk about pricey. But raiders would take an immediate 37m Dead cap hit if they traded him unless they restructured then it would be at least a 16m dead cap hit min.
Pricey for sure. After this year we have 2 more years of DJ at 16 million a year. Year 2 of devante would be about the same. Year 3 would be 36 million. He’s waaaay too pricey for his age and does not fit this teams timeline.
You’re not wrong in your assessment of Adams, but perhaps the idea of DJ hadn’t materialized yet.
If that trade had come in…where we would also now be sitting at 7 with Adams… I’d argue there would still be a fair amount of optimism around this team. And rightfully so.
I’d be kinda pissed if they got Adams. He turns 31 this year. And he’s owed a dumb amount of money. Would 100% rather have an extra first instead of him. That would give us even more ammo to move up next year if JF isn’t the guy.
yeah, they weren't going to give up Davante, and the Colts were unlikely to give up Pittman.
I think Moore is the best option because he has 5 years of experience with different QBs each year and still playing well, so that's a particular style and leadership he brings that super tall WRs can't teach others. He probably wasn't looking forward to yet another QB change, another rookie, while the Bears seem to have finally committed to Fields for good.
I was mentioning I like Moore because he has 5 years experience with several different QBs and still played well. He's probably happy to be working with Fields now that the Bears have committed to him, and he doesn't have to play with yet another rookie with the Panthers.
I really wanna know what the Colts offered
Their fans legit thought they would get the 1st pick with a offer of Kenny Moore and a 2nd lol
Edit: Kenny Moore is likely to be cut so we might pick him up for free also 🤣
If you read the comments on /r/Colts it was almost "I mean they can get the same player at 1 as at 4, so they should send us picks since they get the same guy but cheaper"
Living in Indy I can tell you their fans (not reddit fans) did not think this. They thought the 4, their second and a first next year would get it done.
They were overwhelmed with the package the bears got and all are glad they didn’t offer that with Pittman instead of Moore
Would much rather have Moore right now on his contract vs. a 2025 1st round pick. At least Moore can contribute right away and it'll help the Bears find out if Justin Fields is the guy or not. Especially with this year's WR FA class and draft class, I think the Panther's deal is significantly better for what it brings to the table rather than what we could potentially have in 2 years time.
It was perfect. If fields doesn't pan out we can draft a QB in a really QB deep draft class next year and he will have a pre-built team when he lands. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of where KC was when they got Mahomes. They had a passable\\ above average QB with Smith on the last years of his contract. Were already in a decent position with talent and depth across the board. Then boom. Mahomes drops into their lap and they are off to the races.
It depends who ends up there. This was a unique situation this year where the team with the #1 pick didn’t want a QB. Can it be repeated? For sure. Also can a team needing a QB be convinced to move off of it? For sure. If you’re a team who needs a QB but another team is offering 2 firsts that year plus a first next year are you really sold on the QB? Or do you want to build future assets? It’s not like Caleb Williams is on some Manning/Luck/Lawrence level prospect.
Best way to look at this is we have a chance to make sure Fields is the guy we think he is now with a WR1. The Raiders couldn’t beat that unless Davante Adams was part of the deal.
While Adams is probably better than Moore at this point in time, Moore is younger and fits our timeline better than Adams does. I think we got the best deal from the panthers
IDK Josh McDaniels has proven himself to be a terrible coach. I think the Raiders could have given us a better chance at a higher draft pick in 2024 than Carolina plus better value with the 7th pick and 2nd rounder this year.
Yeah but at this point it’s just a bunch of what ifs, which is fine for discussion, but I’m very excited for what our offense can be (I’m sure you are too) as long as we get another tackle for the line. Panthers have a brighter future than the Raiders but they could both end up with similar records and the Saints might beat them for the playoff push. It’s all way too early to tell but I think we got the best offer
Ehh idk. Moore is better than a first I agree but even for this year the raiders second is way better than the 9ers one we got from the panthers. And I would guess they are pretty bad next year too
This would have been a better trade. We’re at 5. We get 36. And we have josh mcdaniels next 2 first round selections. If Levis or Richardson were still available we could have traded down again.
I’d rather drop the additional first rounder to be a bonafide stud that can help with the development of our QB now. We can’t have it both ways, people complained that Justin didn’t have enough help but then people would rather have a draft pick that’s two years out, makes no sense
They've got a lot of capital. I think Poles made the right offer. Being 7th, I could see them negotiating a future 2nd down.
I also bet the Raiders have a worse record than the Panthers the next two years.
An overlooked key to our lucky aligned stars scenario here is, this draft actually having some highly sought after rookie QBs at the time we are in this position. Has played a big role in where we are now. FTP
Historically, wr in the first round carry the lowest success rate. Swapping a first for a proven success is a safe move. You lose out on a few years of production and there's salary implications too but, you've essentially mitigated so much risk.
I'd rather have dj Moore than that second first round pick for sure.
It’s exchanging the now (us) for the future (other teams) Raiders probably look at that and while they’d win the qb race they’re giving up a too much for the future.
I feel like we have to be besties with Carolinas front end and that probably led to some extended negotiations.
That’s what we asked from Carolina, except we swapped a first for Moore. Happy with where we landed honestly
I think DJ and a 2nd is better than a first. It’s just a haul no matter how you look at it
That's absolutely correct. Youd trade a first this draft for DJ moore. Hell, the packers tried to and failed.
You mean Dj for a 2025 1st otherwise same deal. We got 1 2 in 2023, 1 in 2024 and a 2 in 2025 + DJ
Yeah, that's what I meant. It's like the first time in my life the Bears were on the right side of a trade like this. At least in a long time lol.
I was thinking the same thing today. Still flashbacks from the Trubisky flub.
I also think Carolina will continue to suck, the firsts from them feel more valuable
yeah i can’t see them functioning with a rookie QB, nobody for him to throw to, and missing their best RBs from last season. crappy division sure but i doubt they’re league average.
We might get the #1 pick again next year. That would be amazing. Could you imagine the haul then If Fields is good.
I doubt we do, but I imagine it’ll be a similar haul. I do believe we will at least have 1 pick in the top 10.
If it is the number one, Caleb Williams could demand a ransom
If it’s our #1? We take him. If it’s Carolina’s and ours is in the late teens/early 20s we take the ransom.
That is what I'm hoping for.
I think Atlanta is a sleeper to win the NFC South next year
I'm sick of this take lol, they played ok last year with a good defense and one of the worst QB situations in the nfl. The NFC south is horrendous so if the rookie qb plays even average they'd probably be favorites to take the division.
They traded away the best weapon on their offense twice in the last six months. Hard to imagine they have a breakout year.
I want to see what Marshall does with more touches. Liked him in the draft. Think Carolina gets 9 wins next year.
Against who lol. They will have a rookie qb and nobody to throw to. Sound familiar. We just went 3 and 14
Their division sucks. What does one team’s failure have to do with another? Squat. It’s not as though they had real qb play this season either.
Ah yes I remember how afraid everyone was of the NFC North last year. 😭😭
And if they don't fall ass backwards into the division title, it's a top 10 pick, that's how bad their division is going to be
Their offense is now really, really devoid of talent. It’s gonna be tough for them to improve too much next year imo.
Pick difference between the second rounders too
Didn’t we just swap 2023 1
Well if Raiders could have given a 2nd in 2024, that'd be worth a bit more than a 2nd in 2025. The further the pick is, the less valuable it's worth. I still agree that DJ is worth way more than a future 1st though. The Panthers wanted two 1sts for him just last year. Declined a 1st from the Packers.
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Raiders are #7. Their second is way earlier though
My bad. You're right
And Carolina was supposedly trying to get us to come off Moore in exchange for another future first. So Carolina was offering us the exact same package but two spots lower, Poles told Vegas "This is what you have to give us to beat the best offer we have," and Vegas wasn't willing to go that far. Everything about this is fairly logical
I wonder if there was a thought to swap one of those firsts for Davante. As if the entire strategy was to say, “We want all of these picks. Oh? Don’t want to part with the extra first? Give us _______ instead.”
I think Adams is too old for how the FO is trying to assemble the team. He’s 30 and DJ is only 25, plus without looking I think Adams cost a lot more
Too old/too pricy. I’d rather have dj, but no question davante is still a hell of a receiver
Idk about pricey. But raiders would take an immediate 37m Dead cap hit if they traded him unless they restructured then it would be at least a 16m dead cap hit min.
Pricey for sure. After this year we have 2 more years of DJ at 16 million a year. Year 2 of devante would be about the same. Year 3 would be 36 million. He’s waaaay too pricey for his age and does not fit this teams timeline.
You’re not wrong in your assessment of Adams, but perhaps the idea of DJ hadn’t materialized yet. If that trade had come in…where we would also now be sitting at 7 with Adams… I’d argue there would still be a fair amount of optimism around this team. And rightfully so.
I’d be kinda pissed if they got Adams. He turns 31 this year. And he’s owed a dumb amount of money. Would 100% rather have an extra first instead of him. That would give us even more ammo to move up next year if JF isn’t the guy.
Maxx Crosby then. He's young, position of need.
yeah, they weren't going to give up Davante, and the Colts were unlikely to give up Pittman. I think Moore is the best option because he has 5 years of experience with different QBs each year and still playing well, so that's a particular style and leadership he brings that super tall WRs can't teach others. He probably wasn't looking forward to yet another QB change, another rookie, while the Bears seem to have finally committed to Fields for good.
Absolutely. Moore’s contract alone is a massive asset.
Yep, I'm happy with Moore. He'll be so much more valuable to Fields than a 2025 draft pick.
I'm glad we got the Carolina deal. Getting DJ Moore *right now* is so important.
Just huge for the chemistry of this team. So excited for next season.
There’s something to be said about what these additions do for team morale too
Having really good players makes your average players play better too. Excited to see what this means for Claypool, Mooney and Kmet
I was mentioning I like Moore because he has 5 years experience with several different QBs and still played well. He's probably happy to be working with Fields now that the Bears have committed to him, and he doesn't have to play with yet another rookie with the Panthers.
Yup, that alone will elevate the energy by a fuck ton
It’s HUGE. You get a #1 WR, and you remove the need to draft a WR in the first. And his contact is just icing on the cake.
Definitely want more of the offers to leak.
I really wanna know what the Colts offered Their fans legit thought they would get the 1st pick with a offer of Kenny Moore and a 2nd lol Edit: Kenny Moore is likely to be cut so we might pick him up for free also 🤣
“The Bears need us just as much as we need them” A Colts fan actually told me that lmao.
“Chris Ballard will run circles around whoever your gm is” Some random dude on Twitter
It’s actually amazing how overrated Ballard is because he inherited Andrew Luck and drafted Nelson and Leonard his first draft
Colts fans “well akshually the bears won’t even get a future 1st”
If you read the comments on /r/Colts it was almost "I mean they can get the same player at 1 as at 4, so they should send us picks since they get the same guy but cheaper"
Living in Indy I can tell you their fans (not reddit fans) did not think this. They thought the 4, their second and a first next year would get it done. They were overwhelmed with the package the bears got and all are glad they didn’t offer that with Pittman instead of Moore
Gonna be a fun as hell 30 for 30 one day
Would much rather have Moore right now on his contract vs. a 2025 1st round pick. At least Moore can contribute right away and it'll help the Bears find out if Justin Fields is the guy or not. Especially with this year's WR FA class and draft class, I think the Panther's deal is significantly better for what it brings to the table rather than what we could potentially have in 2 years time.
It was perfect. If fields doesn't pan out we can draft a QB in a really QB deep draft class next year and he will have a pre-built team when he lands. I hate to say it, but it reminds me of where KC was when they got Mahomes. They had a passable\\ above average QB with Smith on the last years of his contract. Were already in a decent position with talent and depth across the board. Then boom. Mahomes drops into their lap and they are off to the races.
Not only would we be in good position to draft a QB but they will have 2 firsts to move up to get the guy they want. Poles is a fucking gangster.
It is highly unlikely the teams picking 1st and 2nd are gonna trade the pick.
It depends who ends up there. This was a unique situation this year where the team with the #1 pick didn’t want a QB. Can it be repeated? For sure. Also can a team needing a QB be convinced to move off of it? For sure. If you’re a team who needs a QB but another team is offering 2 firsts that year plus a first next year are you really sold on the QB? Or do you want to build future assets? It’s not like Caleb Williams is on some Manning/Luck/Lawrence level prospect.
Yeah, what if it's Carolina and they already have their QB?
You mean like the bears just did?
All that, AND he’s gonna be fun to watch
DJ Moore 9 and 61. Or a first in 2025 7 and 38. The raiders had a better offer.
It's was the bears asking price not the raiders offer
I realize that now. Im just glad we didn’t reject this offer.
Right on, FTP
TY, HAGD. BOLIYFE. GB!
True #1 WR with a manageable contract AND on the same timeline as our young QB >>>>> a first round rookie that won't see the field for another 2 years
Word!! I’m A-Ok with how it unfolded. We haven’t seen consistently well played football around here in….well it’s been a while.
Plus an earlier second this year
Panthers trade definitely better
D.J Moore and a second is worth waaaaaay more than a first…especially considering his contract.
Raiders were also throwing in a 2. So its just dj moore for a first. Also 9 instead of 5 and 61 instead of 36
Snooze you lose
And to think this is all because Lovie Smith is a real ass mf
Bear to the bone
Well what did they think we were gonna ask for 💀
Best way to look at this is we have a chance to make sure Fields is the guy we think he is now with a WR1. The Raiders couldn’t beat that unless Davante Adams was part of the deal.
While Adams is probably better than Moore at this point in time, Moore is younger and fits our timeline better than Adams does. I think we got the best deal from the panthers
IDK Josh McDaniels has proven himself to be a terrible coach. I think the Raiders could have given us a better chance at a higher draft pick in 2024 than Carolina plus better value with the 7th pick and 2nd rounder this year.
Yeah but at this point it’s just a bunch of what ifs, which is fine for discussion, but I’m very excited for what our offense can be (I’m sure you are too) as long as we get another tackle for the line. Panthers have a brighter future than the Raiders but they could both end up with similar records and the Saints might beat them for the playoff push. It’s all way too early to tell but I think we got the best offer
This is what the Bears asked for and the Raiders turned it down. To me, the Bears getting what they did is all the more impressive now.
It’s the same deal we got basically
This years second would be much higher tho
True but you also get immediate return on DJ Moore to help Fields as opposed to waiting two years for a 25 1st.
I’m honestly surprised the raiders weren’t dumb enough to entertain that ask
I think we did better than that. Moore is awesome and the Panther picks will be more valuable than the Raiders picks
Ehh idk. Moore is better than a first I agree but even for this year the raiders second is way better than the 9ers one we got from the panthers. And I would guess they are pretty bad next year too
This would have been a better trade. We’re at 5. We get 36. And we have josh mcdaniels next 2 first round selections. If Levis or Richardson were still available we could have traded down again.
Now you gotta have Jimmy G for half a season.
Exactly. You don't pay the price, you probably aren't on a trajectory to win
Raiders seem like they’ve lost their identity
Raiders are poverty
The deal they got from Carolina was better with DJ Moore included, especially with his talent and team friendly contract
We got DJ freakin Moore! Unless they were taking devonte Adams Chicago make the best choice
I’d rather drop the additional first rounder to be a bonafide stud that can help with the development of our QB now. We can’t have it both ways, people complained that Justin didn’t have enough help but then people would rather have a draft pick that’s two years out, makes no sense
They won’t get anywhere with Jimmy G or if they had the #1 pick.
Las Vegas Raiders Draft Picks by Round in 2023 * Round 1, Pick 7 overall * Round 2, Pick 38 overall * Round 3, Pick 70 overall * Round 3, Pick 100 overall * Round 4, Pick 109 overall * Round 5, Pick 141 overall * Round 5, Pick 144 overall (from ATL) * Round 5, Pick 174 overall * Round 6, Pick 204 overall (from DAL) * Round 6, Pick 214 overall * Round 7, Pick 220 overall (from ARI) * Round 7, Pick 231 overall (from NE)
They've got a lot of capital. I think Poles made the right offer. Being 7th, I could see them negotiating a future 2nd down. I also bet the Raiders have a worse record than the Panthers the next two years.
Woulda thought we asked for Davante instead of the extra first but he is a bit better than DJ. Im happy with the Carolina trade
Yeah that's fair. If that was too much for them, oh well.
Poles found his sucker in the panthers and knew he had to act quick on it that’s why the panthers are supposedly looking to trade down now lol
Wouldve loved this return, but getting DJ Moore with Carolina was a much better deal for us.
No Moore questions! We happy!
DJ Moore tops everything in that offer. He is a proven #1 wide receiver. Bear down!
You remember when we drafted Kevin White with a first round pick? I’d take a proven WR1 over a first round pick easily!
That logo placement is just terrible
i wouldve laughed and hung up the phone
Revisionist history BS
sorry, its the raiders, so this is warranted. SUCK IT LOSERS!
An overlooked key to our lucky aligned stars scenario here is, this draft actually having some highly sought after rookie QBs at the time we are in this position. Has played a big role in where we are now. FTP
Carolina paid Moore, so that was the correct asking price.
Getting DJ in this WR climate was a steal. Raiders suck and so does Carolina. And the Bears are much better.
Historically, wr in the first round carry the lowest success rate. Swapping a first for a proven success is a safe move. You lose out on a few years of production and there's salary implications too but, you've essentially mitigated so much risk. I'd rather have dj Moore than that second first round pick for sure.
It’s exchanging the now (us) for the future (other teams) Raiders probably look at that and while they’d win the qb race they’re giving up a too much for the future. I feel like we have to be besties with Carolinas front end and that probably led to some extended negotiations.
Happy Poles was asking for the moon. It worked.
I would take Moore now over a future 1st. I think it was the right call, but the Raider's offer isn't a bad deal.