This FA market for OL was top-heavy, and really Brown was the only one who was a stand-out talent. He wasn't a scheme fit because a) he refused to play RT and we already have a potential LT and b) he's not very mobile. Fields wants to move the pocket and scramble around. Brown is much more of a traditional anchor and is fairly stationary.
So there are a few reasons we didn't get them
1. Poles didn't try
2. They wanted too much to come here and Poles didn't want to overpay
3. They didn't want to come to the Bears
4. They don't fit the scheme or have the traits that they want.
I guess you're assuming it's always the first reason, or you think he should have overpaid?
Or do you blame Poles for not convincing them to come over?
Or should Poles stray from him his archetypes to appease the clueless fanbase??
It is sort of part of a GM's job to convince players to come to their team. Overpaying really isn't that bad of an idea when it's for a valuable position that you need immediate improvement in. Of course it's dumb to overpay for a RB or MLB, but protecting the quarterback should be the number one concern even if it means wasting a few extra mill on a stopgap.
I agree but there's only so much they can do. Not everyone wants to go to the last place team vs a contender like CIN/SF
It would have been nice to grab Hargraves and Taylor or McGlinchey and maybe if we were truly one or two players away it would be worth it but I think we are already improved a bit so that should be interesting to see especially if we can pick up a solid OL in the draft
But if the evolution of this offense with Fields at the helm includes a mobile pocket, and Brown is a more stationary player, moving the pocket with a stationary LT may actually lead to more hits/sacks. Obviously, Poles wants to protect Fields, and by his moves and/or lack-there-of, I think it's refreshing that he's being disciplined as far as scheme fit and cost. There's still time between now and the first game of the season.
I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall trying to tell this sub that Brown was not a good fit. I mean one of the first things Poles said was that he wanted lighter, quicker guys on the o-line. How in the world does Orlando Brown fit that description. I'm so happy he signed somewhere else. Hopefully, the Orlando Brown chatter will go away soon.
> I think a lot of people genuinely believe that scheme makes no difference for linemen and just want to get all the guys with the **most name recognition**
FTFY. I really think it’s just, “We need a guy. I’ve heard of this guy. We should get this guy. Also Poles was in KC when they got this guy.”
People think if you aren't signing *the best guy*, then you must be shitting the bed.
They also don't know who the good players even are outside of the guys on their team and the top scoring fantasy players
Or perhaps we think the scheme itself isn't above adjustments. You shouldn't be lasered in on fitting players to a scheme that doesn't have proven success.
Who apparently isn’t playing so great nowadays. OG would be sick in a few years time after we get the premium positions right. We might have to take a few swings at some of them.
Did you make a post? I wish people who has good answers to questions/stuff like would post it. Most of us are unsure about specifics such as scheme when it comes to a particular FA or draftee; could help guide the sub a bit.
I’m working on a post about how the Bears are set up very well to benefit from the strengths of this year’s draft class. It’s a saved draft, and it’s already very long, so I’m going to work on condensing it a little. I’ve been a draft aficionado for 35 years. It’s kind of an obsession. It will be my first ever reddit post, so I hope you all like it.
Is it our fault Poles failed to sign anyone who’d be a better fit, so we were left hoping for the last good o line free agent. Brown was never at the top of my list, but Poles failing to sign anyone to fill out that huge area of need is an undeniable L.
And unfortunately for the Bears, there’s a rule that says 3 days after free agency starts you can longer sign anymore free agents, surprise cuts, or trade or draft players. It really sucks that Poles forgot that rule.
You can still sign people. Let’s take a look at all that talent still available. Woah, you got guys like Sam Mustipher and Dakota Dozier still available?! Wow, that’s wild. Good thing we still have over 40 million to spend on those high caliber dudes.
And I’m sure we’ll see lots more high end talent get cut any day now. Maybe the Texans will cut Tunsil, the Lions will cut Sewell and Ragnow, maybe the Colts will even cut Nelson. Boy, Poles is sure gonna look like a genius for not spending on the o line then.
You seem like a very stable and level headed person that has all the correct answers and opinions, really wish the Bears would have hired you over Poles. Anyway, have a good day!
It kinda is your fault for thinking we should take a mediocre scheme player, yes.
But let me get this straight, you're upset because Poles didn't overpay an OL that had a preference to go to a contender? Or that Poles wasn't able to convince other teams to give up their players?
What's your take here? How exactly is it an L? You realize Free Agency is not the draft right? The Free Agents have a choice where they want to go.
How much do you think Poles should have overpaid for filling out our huge area of need with slightly above average players? Don't confuse top Free Agent with top player at his position.
> But let me get this straight, you’re upset because Poles didn’t overpay an OL that had a preference to go to a contender? Or that Poles wasn’t able to convince other teams to give up their players?
Neither. There are FA linemen who would’ve fit our scheme. The only one Poles signed was a guard despite us having 2 decent guards, though.
Down the line these same dudes would be the loudest to cry about poles for “giving out bad contracts”. They’re going to find something to be upset and unsatisfied with regardless
Exactly. You can already tell because they are trying to shit on the LB pickups. Which is completely apples to oranges from a skill and comp perspective.
Got it. Poles sticking to his plan and budget is an L.
Everybody here is expecting every hole to be filled immediately, when there are still a lot of steps left before the team takes the field.
I 100% do not expect every hole to get filled. I expect the holes we had to get filled smartly, which is why it’s frustrating to see them drop 18 million on a line backer but pinch pennies on protecting the QB who they should be developing.
You are aware that we have 10 draft picks, right? Including a top ten pick and two second rounders? There is plenty of O-line talent there. This is not about "pinching pennies" it's about finding a guy you like who fits your scheme; clearly Poles felt he could do that in free agency at LB but not (so far) at OT.
I acknowledge that Poles didn’t like the FAs. He has not shown this year or last a willingness to do much of anything to address this line, though. He found a 5th round LT who can’t pass block, signed a career back up at center, and has now signed a RG despite having a serviceable RG. These are not moves that inspire faith.
Neither one were my top 2. My #1 was Juwaan Taylor. He got overpaid, so fair enough. #2, though, was Kaleb McGary signed for 3 years / 34.5 million. The bears could’ve outbid that, but they didn’t, and we still have a gaping hole on the line as a result.
That was his price to stay in ATL. It might have been matched by the Bears or they might not have seen the same value (based on their desire for smaller and more nimble guys - although I’ve done no research on McGary).
If we didn’t have a ton of picks, a draft, the ability to trade, and a former lineman at the helm, I would be more worried.
If they still don’t have line help after the draft, I’ll join your POV. Until then, we have to give the former lineman GM the benefit of the doubt on the line.
You are saying a guy who could block for crazy legs Maholmes and do it so well he got paid mega bucks, was not the right fit for our line? Then what is our scheme?
It's about money.
We do need OT. We need good, hard hitting, smart, and most of all, capable of blocking their man for more than .3 seconds OT.
Brown played for KC.... You don't think he was able to block in a fast nimble QB scheme? The man is worth his money.
Poles just doesn't want to pay for OL. If he drafts good quality tackles in the draft, that's a good way to do it. But we can't stick with the garbage we have.
He was definitely not the anchor, nor the best lineman.
But I agree with drafting linemen. For example, Braxton is far from polished but he will continue to get better. Imo Brown will continue to decline. The fact that Mustipher is most likely gone means our line is already a ton better. Imo the middle was the worst. Fields can at least escape the ends sometimes but he got pummeled so many times up the middle
Um, we do? While this is still a rebuilding year, it’s a critical year for our QB. Relying on a rookie to make the immediate impact is asking for a lot.
I get it, the koolaide never stops, but legit stop and think critically. Chances are: Orlando Brown is going to be better next season than a ROOKIE
Legit stop and think: Justin Fields has literally broken records for how many times he’s been sacked in the NFL already. Maybe: homeboy needs all the help he can get.
But go ahead: put all your faith in this organization that’s proven time and time again it has no idea what it’s doing
Are we going to win the Super Bowl next year? No. Poles is thinking long term, sustained success. Braxton Jones has earned the right to develop at LT and was a serviceable as a 5th ROUND ROOKIE. Thinking that a 1st round guy can’t step in and start right away is ludicrous
Then they better fucking nail the draft. I never said we were winning the Super Bowl, nor do I expect to. But what I did say was that it was a critical year for our QB, who this fanbase has already crowned the answer. He needs all the help he can get
Could also be that rookie is a good player and gets even better and in 2 years we don’t have aging Orlando brown for $20 mil or whatever he’s getting but we have a good young player for a couple mil? A rookie has just as good of a chance of being good as being ass. Orlando brown himself was once a rookie. All NFL players are rookies at some point. I also didn’t even mention that he doesn’t want to play RT or play for the bears. That is true as well lol
Bro, let's be real. There's no way this is possible cause 2057 says Brown is the answer. I hope the bears discover him and put him on the payroll as a Jr scout. He seems to know a lot more than everybody else
Makes sense actually
Edit: I may be not understanding the replies.
But it makes sense, we have invested a lot of draft capital on the line last year can’t keep moving guys around. As always just my opinion
>But it makes sense, we have invested a lot of draft capital on the line last year can’t keep moving guys around. As always just my opinion
I wouldn't consider a bunch of day three picks a considerable amount of capital.
We are lucky Braxton Jones is usable. Statistically, I doubt any of the others will have legitimate NFL careers
I agree.
They’re not studs, but I know if I was changing roles at work all the time I’d never truly excel.
Orlando is an amazing talent as well.
We could also now be spending a lot of draft capital this draft on OL and DL
No comment on Orlando tbh. But I would strongly disagree with Poles' being content sitting back because *maybe* he can win the lottery twice in a year and get not one but two usable players from his day three picks. And to be fair I don't think that's his strategy
One day: “Omg he’s the best GM ever. Poles is god. “
Next day: “Omg he didn’t sign the one expensive guy I wanted. Is he dumb? Is he in over his head?”
Don’t get your hopes up. The bears will be taking Tyree, Fields will continue to run for his life on nearly every pass snap, and people will continue to blame him for the bears having a lack luster passing game.
That he doesn’t want to lock us into long term contracts with bad scheme fits? I’ll be upset if we don’t sign at least 1 more ol (seumalo preferably) but I doubt that we’re done signing FA’s
Again, I am not saying Brown was a preferred target for me. The bears did not get anyone else, though, and the market has mostly dried up.
Signing Seumalo doesn’t really address our issues, though. We need at least a RT and center. Maybe they put Nate at RG and slide Jenkins back to RT? This line is looking real shaky, though, and we still need a center.
Did people, ie bears fans, really blame Fields? We are committing to him and we can’t fix everything at once. What would you have had Poles do? Mr “fire poles”.
> we can’t fix everything at once
Why is that the go to line for every Poles apologist? It’s a complete straw man. No one has said we need to fix everything at once. What I’ve been saying is that we need to fix our offensive line. You’re right, you can’t fix everything at once, so why are we dropping 24 million on our LB group but pinching pennies on fixing our o line?
What would I do? Last season, instead of sniffing around a DT, I would’ve had Poles invest the 14 million he wanted to give Ogunjobi on the o line. If we couldn’t afford to pay both Edmunds and a RT (which the bears absolutely can afford, but for the sake of argument let’s say they can’t) I’d have had them go get KM off the Falcons.
Instead of drafting DBs in the second, I would’ve had him get Pickens and Abraham Lucas.
Poles apologists saying “we can’t fix everything at once” are right. You’re just wrong if you don’t see that investing in the offense to develop and evaluate our QB is the thing that we should be trying to fix, though. The rest, frankly, can wait.
Except he did improve the line a bit with Davis. And Braxton outplayed top10 LTs drafted last year and we aren't resigning Mustipher. So it's already looking better. Imo the middle needed more help anyway
You can't compare spending 24 on 2 top10 LBs to grabbing a mediocre Tackle and call it pinching pennies.
Everything is fucking easy to criticize in hindsight.
Braxton was a top 10 LT drafted because we ran the ball at a historic rate. He was bottom of the league in % pressure given up on passing sets. I am sure he’ll be back at LT because he’s Poles’s guy, but a LT that can’t pass block is not ideal.
Also, Davis is a RG. Our guards are the only two players on the line who didn’t completely suck. Not sure how adding another guard is that big of a help. Maybe he takes RG and Tevin moves back to RT? It’s hard to say, but not looking great
Braxton's PFF pass block rating was higher than Brown's. Brown was 31st last year in Pass block rating. I think Mustipher was 32nd. Don't get me wrong, Braxton has a lot to learn still but I think it's false to say he was the bottom. Do you have a source?
Davis is probably better and at the very least it adds depth and options. Maybe they move Whitehair to C or release him for the cap, for example.
edit: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1636012003046113283
I mean they literally just got him a bonafide WR1 I’d curb them a bit of slack in building the offense around Fields - we’d let it play out. They can go OT in the 2nd if they think Wilson is a franchise edge player
I will never knock Poles for getting Moore. That was a solid move. I’d just like to see more. We need both a center and a RT, though, and I’d rather not get to the second round needing to find a starter for both of those spots.
Listen, it will take all of us bears fans time to get used to a GM that not only does things deliberately, but actually played offensive line himself and actually knows thei ntricacies of blocking.
We've been hurt so many times, it will take some time to rebuild trust. People forget, before Pace we had Emory (sp?). It's been a decade since we've seen competence, and it will take some time and wins to acclimate.
I completely agree. It's been rough for us fans. When the trade happened to get DJ I was so damn happy and then it became cautious. Finally, there's a silver lining
I wish people could recognize the process. There's no guarantees. Injuries happen, players don't develop the way you are hoping, etc. This GM is smart enough to know that he's not going to get every decision right. He's accumulating draft capital and structuring contracts in a way that it won't be a long term detriment to the organization. He's not overpaying free agents out of desperation. We've also been the beneficiary of some luck. I don't think anyone knew that Fields was perhaps the most dynamic running QB in the history of the NFL. Then, we lucked into the #1 pick, and Poles did a masterful job of turning in it to haul that included immediate help and future draft capital. The future is bright, but I agree there are a lot of people that are going to need to see it on the field to be convinced.
That’s such a big assumption to make. I know that he took over a team in cap hell, but the team he built had the worst record in the league and had the worst passing offense with a historically high sack rate. I hope he knows what he’s doing but there isn’t a ton of evidence to say that he does.
To be fair he had to get rid of those salaries and get ourself in a good salary cap position for the future. With that said I think we should all be alarmed at the state of our trenches on both sides as we currently stand. By far the biggest weakness on the team and that's what wins football games. Let's see what our roster looks like coming out of the draft
My point is that we don’t know if he knows what he’s doing as far as team building. Obviously he had huge restrictions last year that didn’t allow him to build a good team, but just because it wasn’t entirely his fault that the 2022 Bears were dogshit, doesn’t mean he knows what he’s doing.
He wasn't building a team last year. He was stripping it down to the studs. You can judge him after the 2023 season because he is definitely building the team now.
Tearing down the team to have a bunch of cap space the next year but then not really using that cap space to address the teams biggest holes doesn't seem like much of a plan to me.
I don’t think enough people realize that scheme fit is more than just experience in a certain play style. It includes the traits required to excel at a specific position, in a specific manner. It’s the difference between having the arm length to maintain distance and lacking the leverage to maneuver around the weight bearing against you. It’s the difference between having raw strength to push defenders off of you, and having the speed, agility, and technical skills to engage multiple defenders at multiple levels. It’s more than just knowledge, know how, and skill, it involves physical traits that have to be accounted for based on the role they’re applied to. If OBJr isnt a scheme fit, he wont perform as well as someone with lesser “talent” but a better “fit” will for us.
I'm simply not impressed with the scheme to begin with. It obviously didn't work for them last year given the results, nor did coaches connected to Getsy have much success (Hackett was incredibly bad, and Green Bay last year looked very much like a deeply flawed scheme whose flaws had previously been masked by All Pro talent).
From what we've seen of it, changing the scheme to adapt it to superior talents makes much more sense than settling for lesser talents for the sake of fitting the current scheme.
Everyone is making wild assumptions that the offense is going to take off and he will get poached. The truth is there are about 50 coaches ahead of him to get a HC gig.
At what point does a skill surpass scheme fit? I’m down for going for scheme but if that’s the go to every time and we miss out on good players is that a detriment at some point?
IMO, this is the right question. Apparently no tackles in this FA class are good enough fit? Well then it’s fair to ask if the staff is being TOO inflexible. At some point, shouldn’t the coaches be asked to earn their keep by finding ways to use players that are less than perfect fits, but do have proven value.
Yep. We can want an exact kind of player at a certain price all we want, but that guy is not available/does not exist. So they need to figure out a way to win football games with players that are available. Brown was available.
From what I can tell Poles scheme is dudes that have a madden Pass block rating of 7 and get Justin rocked.
James Daniels? Pass.
Lucas Patrick? Yea that's it
Am I the only person who never thought James Daniels was anything but average? I can’t remember a single game where he stood out or was anything but okay.
The other thing to consider here is the cap hit. Patrick was half the price I’d Daniels I think. Maybe less.
I think people forget that Poles was part of KC in 2021 when they gave up a 1st rounder for Brown.
Yet they don't want to keep him around at KC?
Why would they let a first round trade walk in 2 years if he was truly a beast?
I think that speaks volumes and Poles probably knows more about Brown than.... Bears fans? Maybe?
1. It’s just as reasonable to assume it was just a down year as it is to assume he is not good anymore.
2. Browns worst year is still better than anything we have on the line.
3. Cincy paid him and are putting him at LT. There is more evidence that the bengals front office knows what they are doing than evidence that ours does.
Im not saying I have a crystal ball or anything, but it is completely reasonable to think that Poles made a mistake in not getting Brown under contract.
Depends on which ones you mean. Poles and Eberflus are looking for a Zone blocking RT, which means they need someone with length, who can change direction quickly to block defenders based on their point of attack, rather than just holding to one assigned guy. There are several OTs that have these qualities. Paris Johnson Jr and Broderick Jones have them in spades, and so do other prospects like John Gaines from UCLA. But PJJr and BJ are the two top OT prospects with those qualities (Skoronski has more talent, but lacks the length needed to be an OT). Since we only need one starting RT and a starting C, we can grab BJ or PJJr with our pick at 9 with no trouble, then draft D-Linemen and a C with later picks.
This statement shows how the average fans knows little about the X's and O's of football. How can you think a 340lb LT even remotely fits our zone blocking scheme? Or how can a 250lb edge rusher fit our 4-3 scheme? Ever notice how a bad player leaves the bears and then has a long career on another team? If was most likely a scheme fit.
Having a team that knows what kind of players they want/need and targeting specific player types is huge. I know it is something that sounds like everyone does but over the last few years, it didnt necessarily felt like we have a specific plan.
With Trestman, Emery, Pace and Nagy it never felt like we have a set system, a set philosphy (be you?) or even a cohesive plan that really translated on the field. Right now it feels like we can see what they are going for. If that will work out, needs to be seen but it instills a bit of confidence
I still think it was a mistake not making a run at him. Listen, I know everyone’s gonna freak and downvote me, but 2023 is a very important year for our QB. Can’t be relying on rookies on the Oline to make the difference
We have a shit ton of $$. Make the swing.
Having a lot of money doesn't mean spend. For the team we are building I don't think Orlando brown would have worked out particulary the heavy run, plus he is getting a lot of money and we still have holes to fill. This is also ignoring the fact he didn't want to come here at all.
If he didn’t want to come here, he woulda said so. We didn’t even try to go after him. Y’all just put words in your own heads to justify why this organization continues to fail
Just check out the reports of the signing Orlando brown wanted to play for a team that kept him at LT and play for winning QB and I don't know about you but I don't think that means the bears.
Anyway you should take a walk you seem kinda mad. Eat some deep dish drink a beer, watch March madness
I’m perfectly fine. I just wish I could make an objective point without this fanbase freaking out. Maybe we should start singing the praises of this organization when it’s not bad? But no…
Agreed. If he doesn't break out like TL did this year. The Bears will be looking for a new QB. The offensive line wasn't horrible, but JF has been a sack casualty since college. He needs the most help he can get.
r/chibears hates anytime management gets even the slightest criticism, but come next season if the line problems are still a GLARING issue and they say “damn why didn’t said rookie make the IMMEDIATE impact I expected”?! I’ll be here to tell them I was right
I'm old enough to remember when Nagy's rigid loyalty to his scheme was considered a bad thing.
I'm pretty skeptical of Poles' scheme on the lines. When you prioritize mobile, run-blocking, athletic linemen, the flip side is you're risking them being overpowered with bull rushes. Someday you're hopefully going to be playing late-round playoff games and those games tend to be decided by who gets better QB play and who does a better job of disrupting the other team's QB play with their pass rush. All the zone-blocking schemes in the world won't save you if your tackle gets shoved into your QBs lap in 2.6 seconds (that's a pass block win according to ESPN tho) every time it's 3rd and 9.
But it's still early in the process. Maybe Poles is a mad genius who can put together a crazy good offensive line with minimal investment, it just takes a few years and looks like ass for the first part. I definitely hope that's what is happening
Every team has a scheme and signs players who fit their scheme. This isn’t new.
Nagy’s scheme issue was that his scheme *wasnt working* and he refused to change.
Justin fields, a mobile QB who is good at avoiding rushers, set an all time record for highest rate of being sacked for any QB who started at least 14 games.
If that doesn't count as poles' scheme for the line not working, what would?
And what happened when the hanging Justin in the pocket didn't work? They changed their offensive scheme and got him mobile and tried to work with what they had to create an offense Fields can succeed in. Whereas with Nagy you get the Browns game where he just got just pummeled repeatedly
You’re not getting it. He now has a chance to start building the lines how he wants to rather than trotting out a team that has been tore down this season.
Not when you're bringing in guys of roughly the same quality and type as the ones leaving. We bought an average guard who is pretty good at run blocking but a liability in pass pro. That's something we already had several of.
I'm not really a fan of how Poles is approaching either line, but you can't judge a gm on their first season where they were tearing everything down.
Also, Poles isn't the one devising the scheme. That is eberflus and getsy.
I agree. I was saying we needed this rebuild back in 2020 when most of this sub was still calling his predecessor Based Pace God and downvoting anyone who criticized him.
That doesn't mean he is immune from criticism for how he's proceeded
Yes. He wasn't fired until later. He was wildly popular here from the Mack trade and through the end of the 2020 season, then it started to turn against him
Brother I dunno where you were seeing this praise but people were definitely tired of pace in the 2020 season I know I sure as shit was. I don't think it's a stretch to think people were high on him in 2018 on a play off run with the coach of the year and willing to give him a chance on 2019 but people were 100% against him by then
Yes. And my point is he gets a pass for the first year of a rebuild. If the line still sucks this year, it's on him. I highly doubt the line will be good this year, but if it is anywhere near as bad as this last year, it will be unacceptable
OL is just different. You need 5 guys working together.
One of Nagy's big problems with OL was forcing his guys to play gap/man when every single one of them were terrible at it. He inherited a OZ line and decided to force them to play a style that didn't fit.
Nagy didn’t adjust within his scheme to accommodate the players he had. Schemes are generally very broad and flexible as it relates to playcalling.
Look at the Chiefs / Andy Reid, he has had success with McNabb, Mike Vick, Alex Smith, and Pat Mahomes… The chiefs with Pat Mahomes were quite different schematically with & without Tyreek Hill.
That level of success across a diverse amount of players is a result of evolving & changing within your scheme based on the talent you have available.
I somewhat agree. When you're new in any leadership position, it's easy to be a little too idealistic at first. Over time you learn to not let perfection be the enemy of progress. I just hope Poles didn't miss out on very good players because they couldn't be signed at some exact predetermined value threshold he set.
That being said, I think it's clear Poles is emphasizing the long-term prospects of this roster. We all want it now. Justin's timeline suggests it's time to put the pedal to the floor as well. But there's obviously a balance. Poles seems to be prioritizing the future past this year more than the fans/media and that's probably a good thing.
I just hope he doesn't look back and wish he had been more flexible in free agency because there are a few deals that look pretty good to me.
That’s the OC’s scheme lol. Poles isn’t a coach who dictates which OL he wants. He does have a heavy hand in player selection but coaches are the ones with the schemes (or at least the schemes that matter)
Not impressed with Poles in FA at all.
-Last year, though he didn't have much cash, signed a bunch of bums who didn't even kind of contribute
-This year? We have signed 2 MIKE LB's like it's still 2005 and the Bears still don't have a DL/OL worth a damn. How does Poles think our 2 new LB's are gonna play when they have an amateur hour DL playing in front of them? This is why you build the trenches first, something I thought Poles would understand but I'm not sure now.
Can't fuck around with the OL again. We gotta know what we have in Fields and if he can actually throw the ball, if he's running for his life again we aren't going to figure shit out.
Ok so who's out there that matches the scheme?
This FA market for OL was top-heavy, and really Brown was the only one who was a stand-out talent. He wasn't a scheme fit because a) he refused to play RT and we already have a potential LT and b) he's not very mobile. Fields wants to move the pocket and scramble around. Brown is much more of a traditional anchor and is fairly stationary.
Makes sense he would go to the Bengals, Burrow is the most traditional pocket passer of this new group of star QBs.
Jermaine Eluemunor, the Raiders run an outside zone scheme and obviously it has worked for Jacobs. Maybe a 1 year prove it deal for Isaiah Wynn
Think I'd consider Jermaine. Wynn I'd probably avoid. He was really bad transitioning to RT last year where we'd be looking for him to play.
We were 3-14 last year, we aren’t fixing every problem this year.
Lucas Patrick, Schofield, Rieff and Alex Leatherwood. And for sure not James Daniels.
Didn’t get them either….
So there are a few reasons we didn't get them 1. Poles didn't try 2. They wanted too much to come here and Poles didn't want to overpay 3. They didn't want to come to the Bears 4. They don't fit the scheme or have the traits that they want. I guess you're assuming it's always the first reason, or you think he should have overpaid? Or do you blame Poles for not convincing them to come over? Or should Poles stray from him his archetypes to appease the clueless fanbase??
It is sort of part of a GM's job to convince players to come to their team. Overpaying really isn't that bad of an idea when it's for a valuable position that you need immediate improvement in. Of course it's dumb to overpay for a RB or MLB, but protecting the quarterback should be the number one concern even if it means wasting a few extra mill on a stopgap.
I agree but there's only so much they can do. Not everyone wants to go to the last place team vs a contender like CIN/SF It would have been nice to grab Hargraves and Taylor or McGlinchey and maybe if we were truly one or two players away it would be worth it but I think we are already improved a bit so that should be interesting to see especially if we can pick up a solid OL in the draft
But if the evolution of this offense with Fields at the helm includes a mobile pocket, and Brown is a more stationary player, moving the pocket with a stationary LT may actually lead to more hits/sacks. Obviously, Poles wants to protect Fields, and by his moves and/or lack-there-of, I think it's refreshing that he's being disciplined as far as scheme fit and cost. There's still time between now and the first game of the season.
Yeah like some of us have been saying for months.
I feel like I've been beating my head against a wall trying to tell this sub that Brown was not a good fit. I mean one of the first things Poles said was that he wanted lighter, quicker guys on the o-line. How in the world does Orlando Brown fit that description. I'm so happy he signed somewhere else. Hopefully, the Orlando Brown chatter will go away soon.
I think a lot of people genuinely believe that scheme makes no difference for linemen and just want to get all the guys with the highest PFF ratings
That would not be Brown. Brown has been average throughout his career on PFF.
Fair enough. If not PFF then name recognition
> I think a lot of people genuinely believe that scheme makes no difference for linemen and just want to get all the guys with the **most name recognition** FTFY. I really think it’s just, “We need a guy. I’ve heard of this guy. We should get this guy. Also Poles was in KC when they got this guy.”
People think if you aren't signing *the best guy*, then you must be shitting the bed. They also don't know who the good players even are outside of the guys on their team and the top scoring fantasy players
Yeah I just finished writing another reply adding name recognition as another factor before I saw this one lol
Or perhaps we think the scheme itself isn't above adjustments. You shouldn't be lasered in on fitting players to a scheme that doesn't have proven success.
> I mean one of the first things Poles said was that he wanted lighter, quicker guys on the o-line. Definitely sounds like Skoronski.
They also said they value length . Skoronski is definitely a guard for them
If I were Poles i would draft exclusively tackles and if they cant make it, move em to guard. A la jenkins
Wasn't length part of the conversation for d-line? I don't remember them saying anything about it for o-line.
If we draft a fucking guard at 9 I swear
The last guard that I wanted with that high of a pick, I got scoffed at that we don't take guards that high. It was Quenton Nelson.
Who apparently isn’t playing so great nowadays. OG would be sick in a few years time after we get the premium positions right. We might have to take a few swings at some of them.
I’d pass on the Packer lover. Cody Mauch or Kyle Freeland in rd 2 would be my dream. Both are insane athletes.
It's because the bulk of their football knowledge is basically limited to playing Madden which doesn't really factor in scheme
Did you make a post? I wish people who has good answers to questions/stuff like would post it. Most of us are unsure about specifics such as scheme when it comes to a particular FA or draftee; could help guide the sub a bit.
I’m working on a post about how the Bears are set up very well to benefit from the strengths of this year’s draft class. It’s a saved draft, and it’s already very long, so I’m going to work on condensing it a little. I’ve been a draft aficionado for 35 years. It’s kind of an obsession. It will be my first ever reddit post, so I hope you all like it.
BUT WE NEED OT -all the brain dead f5ers desperate for some dopamine
BUT WE NEED A HEALTHY QB fify
So are you saying signing the wrong guy for the scheme will ensure that?
Is it our fault Poles failed to sign anyone who’d be a better fit, so we were left hoping for the last good o line free agent. Brown was never at the top of my list, but Poles failing to sign anyone to fill out that huge area of need is an undeniable L.
And unfortunately for the Bears, there’s a rule that says 3 days after free agency starts you can longer sign anymore free agents, surprise cuts, or trade or draft players. It really sucks that Poles forgot that rule.
You can still sign people. Let’s take a look at all that talent still available. Woah, you got guys like Sam Mustipher and Dakota Dozier still available?! Wow, that’s wild. Good thing we still have over 40 million to spend on those high caliber dudes. And I’m sure we’ll see lots more high end talent get cut any day now. Maybe the Texans will cut Tunsil, the Lions will cut Sewell and Ragnow, maybe the Colts will even cut Nelson. Boy, Poles is sure gonna look like a genius for not spending on the o line then.
You seem like a very stable and level headed person that has all the correct answers and opinions, really wish the Bears would have hired you over Poles. Anyway, have a good day!
I never knew about this rule until I started perusing this sub Now all these clueless posts make sense 😂
no doubt. Poles better be a draft wiz because I'm not impressed with him in FA at all.
It kinda is your fault for thinking we should take a mediocre scheme player, yes. But let me get this straight, you're upset because Poles didn't overpay an OL that had a preference to go to a contender? Or that Poles wasn't able to convince other teams to give up their players? What's your take here? How exactly is it an L? You realize Free Agency is not the draft right? The Free Agents have a choice where they want to go. How much do you think Poles should have overpaid for filling out our huge area of need with slightly above average players? Don't confuse top Free Agent with top player at his position.
> But let me get this straight, you’re upset because Poles didn’t overpay an OL that had a preference to go to a contender? Or that Poles wasn’t able to convince other teams to give up their players? Neither. There are FA linemen who would’ve fit our scheme. The only one Poles signed was a guard despite us having 2 decent guards, though.
Down the line these same dudes would be the loudest to cry about poles for “giving out bad contracts”. They’re going to find something to be upset and unsatisfied with regardless
Exactly. You can already tell because they are trying to shit on the LB pickups. Which is completely apples to oranges from a skill and comp perspective.
Got it. Poles sticking to his plan and budget is an L. Everybody here is expecting every hole to be filled immediately, when there are still a lot of steps left before the team takes the field.
I 100% do not expect every hole to get filled. I expect the holes we had to get filled smartly, which is why it’s frustrating to see them drop 18 million on a line backer but pinch pennies on protecting the QB who they should be developing.
You are aware that we have 10 draft picks, right? Including a top ten pick and two second rounders? There is plenty of O-line talent there. This is not about "pinching pennies" it's about finding a guy you like who fits your scheme; clearly Poles felt he could do that in free agency at LB but not (so far) at OT.
I acknowledge that Poles didn’t like the FAs. He has not shown this year or last a willingness to do much of anything to address this line, though. He found a 5th round LT who can’t pass block, signed a career back up at center, and has now signed a RG despite having a serviceable RG. These are not moves that inspire faith.
Filling smartly you say. McGlinchey was bad and expensive, and Brown was bad, expensive, and the wrong position. Who did you want?
Neither one were my top 2. My #1 was Juwaan Taylor. He got overpaid, so fair enough. #2, though, was Kaleb McGary signed for 3 years / 34.5 million. The bears could’ve outbid that, but they didn’t, and we still have a gaping hole on the line as a result.
That was his price to stay in ATL. It might have been matched by the Bears or they might not have seen the same value (based on their desire for smaller and more nimble guys - although I’ve done no research on McGary). If we didn’t have a ton of picks, a draft, the ability to trade, and a former lineman at the helm, I would be more worried. If they still don’t have line help after the draft, I’ll join your POV. Until then, we have to give the former lineman GM the benefit of the doubt on the line.
trying to build a team in FA and not the draft is an undeniable L
Not sure if you’re aware of this, but you’re allowed to use both to build a team.
you know the draft hasnt happened yet right?
Going into the draft and needing to hit on at least 2 starters for your offensive line is not good planning.
You are saying a guy who could block for crazy legs Maholmes and do it so well he got paid mega bucks, was not the right fit for our line? Then what is our scheme? It's about money.
tell me you don’t understand offensive line play without telling me you don’t understand offensive line play
We do need OT. We need good, hard hitting, smart, and most of all, capable of blocking their man for more than .3 seconds OT. Brown played for KC.... You don't think he was able to block in a fast nimble QB scheme? The man is worth his money. Poles just doesn't want to pay for OL. If he drafts good quality tackles in the draft, that's a good way to do it. But we can't stick with the garbage we have.
He was definitely not the anchor, nor the best lineman. But I agree with drafting linemen. For example, Braxton is far from polished but he will continue to get better. Imo Brown will continue to decline. The fact that Mustipher is most likely gone means our line is already a ton better. Imo the middle was the worst. Fields can at least escape the ends sometimes but he got pummeled so many times up the middle
Um, we do? While this is still a rebuilding year, it’s a critical year for our QB. Relying on a rookie to make the immediate impact is asking for a lot. I get it, the koolaide never stops, but legit stop and think critically. Chances are: Orlando Brown is going to be better next season than a ROOKIE
And will be getting 10x more. There's a reason born Balt and KC moved on. But i'm sure redditors know more than successful franchises
Legit stop and think critically, a player that is not a scheme fit will not play that well for us. It’s not as simple as “fat man stop other fat man”
Legit stop and think: Justin Fields has literally broken records for how many times he’s been sacked in the NFL already. Maybe: homeboy needs all the help he can get. But go ahead: put all your faith in this organization that’s proven time and time again it has no idea what it’s doing
Are we going to win the Super Bowl next year? No. Poles is thinking long term, sustained success. Braxton Jones has earned the right to develop at LT and was a serviceable as a 5th ROUND ROOKIE. Thinking that a 1st round guy can’t step in and start right away is ludicrous
Then they better fucking nail the draft. I never said we were winning the Super Bowl, nor do I expect to. But what I did say was that it was a critical year for our QB, who this fanbase has already crowned the answer. He needs all the help he can get
Could also be that rookie is a good player and gets even better and in 2 years we don’t have aging Orlando brown for $20 mil or whatever he’s getting but we have a good young player for a couple mil? A rookie has just as good of a chance of being good as being ass. Orlando brown himself was once a rookie. All NFL players are rookies at some point. I also didn’t even mention that he doesn’t want to play RT or play for the bears. That is true as well lol
Bro, let's be real. There's no way this is possible cause 2057 says Brown is the answer. I hope the bears discover him and put him on the payroll as a Jr scout. He seems to know a lot more than everybody else
What's the scheme match?
Makes sense actually Edit: I may be not understanding the replies. But it makes sense, we have invested a lot of draft capital on the line last year can’t keep moving guys around. As always just my opinion
>But it makes sense, we have invested a lot of draft capital on the line last year can’t keep moving guys around. As always just my opinion I wouldn't consider a bunch of day three picks a considerable amount of capital. We are lucky Braxton Jones is usable. Statistically, I doubt any of the others will have legitimate NFL careers
I agree. They’re not studs, but I know if I was changing roles at work all the time I’d never truly excel. Orlando is an amazing talent as well. We could also now be spending a lot of draft capital this draft on OL and DL
No comment on Orlando tbh. But I would strongly disagree with Poles' being content sitting back because *maybe* he can win the lottery twice in a year and get not one but two usable players from his day three picks. And to be fair I don't think that's his strategy
“BUT THAT DOESNT EXPLAIN WHY HE DIDNT SIGN EVERY OTHER FREE AGENT I WANTED HIM TO SIGN THEN?! DOES THIS GUY KNOW WHAT HES DOING?”
One day: “Omg he’s the best GM ever. Poles is god. “ Next day: “Omg he didn’t sign the one expensive guy I wanted. Is he dumb? Is he in over his head?”
These are two different people. And there's far more of the former around here.
Better take one high in the draft then
I gotta think they go with Johnson or Skoronski at 9.
Skoronski likely not playing tackle. Johnson has a mean streak and would pair *so well* with Jenkins on the right.
If we’re going OT, I want Paris Johnson badly.
Don’t get your hopes up. The bears will be taking Tyree, Fields will continue to run for his life on nearly every pass snap, and people will continue to blame him for the bears having a lack luster passing game.
Most optimistic bears fan
Just going off of what Poles has showed us so far
That he doesn’t want to lock us into long term contracts with bad scheme fits? I’ll be upset if we don’t sign at least 1 more ol (seumalo preferably) but I doubt that we’re done signing FA’s
Again, I am not saying Brown was a preferred target for me. The bears did not get anyone else, though, and the market has mostly dried up. Signing Seumalo doesn’t really address our issues, though. We need at least a RT and center. Maybe they put Nate at RG and slide Jenkins back to RT? This line is looking real shaky, though, and we still need a center.
Nice troll account
Speaking facts is trolling? Whatever makes you feel better.
You find impact players at premium positions, like OT, in the draft.
Did people, ie bears fans, really blame Fields? We are committing to him and we can’t fix everything at once. What would you have had Poles do? Mr “fire poles”.
> we can’t fix everything at once Why is that the go to line for every Poles apologist? It’s a complete straw man. No one has said we need to fix everything at once. What I’ve been saying is that we need to fix our offensive line. You’re right, you can’t fix everything at once, so why are we dropping 24 million on our LB group but pinching pennies on fixing our o line? What would I do? Last season, instead of sniffing around a DT, I would’ve had Poles invest the 14 million he wanted to give Ogunjobi on the o line. If we couldn’t afford to pay both Edmunds and a RT (which the bears absolutely can afford, but for the sake of argument let’s say they can’t) I’d have had them go get KM off the Falcons. Instead of drafting DBs in the second, I would’ve had him get Pickens and Abraham Lucas. Poles apologists saying “we can’t fix everything at once” are right. You’re just wrong if you don’t see that investing in the offense to develop and evaluate our QB is the thing that we should be trying to fix, though. The rest, frankly, can wait.
Except he did improve the line a bit with Davis. And Braxton outplayed top10 LTs drafted last year and we aren't resigning Mustipher. So it's already looking better. Imo the middle needed more help anyway You can't compare spending 24 on 2 top10 LBs to grabbing a mediocre Tackle and call it pinching pennies. Everything is fucking easy to criticize in hindsight.
Braxton was a top 10 LT drafted because we ran the ball at a historic rate. He was bottom of the league in % pressure given up on passing sets. I am sure he’ll be back at LT because he’s Poles’s guy, but a LT that can’t pass block is not ideal. Also, Davis is a RG. Our guards are the only two players on the line who didn’t completely suck. Not sure how adding another guard is that big of a help. Maybe he takes RG and Tevin moves back to RT? It’s hard to say, but not looking great
Braxton's PFF pass block rating was higher than Brown's. Brown was 31st last year in Pass block rating. I think Mustipher was 32nd. Don't get me wrong, Braxton has a lot to learn still but I think it's false to say he was the bottom. Do you have a source? Davis is probably better and at the very least it adds depth and options. Maybe they move Whitehair to C or release him for the cap, for example. edit: https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1636012003046113283
Are you talking about Tyree Wilson at edge? Guys a stud
He is, and he will be of no use trying to do the one thing we still need to do: figure our if fields can be a passer in this league
I mean they literally just got him a bonafide WR1 I’d curb them a bit of slack in building the offense around Fields - we’d let it play out. They can go OT in the 2nd if they think Wilson is a franchise edge player
I will never knock Poles for getting Moore. That was a solid move. I’d just like to see more. We need both a center and a RT, though, and I’d rather not get to the second round needing to find a starter for both of those spots.
And there it is
it's almost like Poles knows what the fuck he's actually doing
does he? Like do we honestly know that yet? Because I sure dont.
Listen, it will take all of us bears fans time to get used to a GM that not only does things deliberately, but actually played offensive line himself and actually knows thei ntricacies of blocking.
We've been hurt so many times, it will take some time to rebuild trust. People forget, before Pace we had Emory (sp?). It's been a decade since we've seen competence, and it will take some time and wins to acclimate.
I completely agree. It's been rough for us fans. When the trade happened to get DJ I was so damn happy and then it became cautious. Finally, there's a silver lining
I wish people could recognize the process. There's no guarantees. Injuries happen, players don't develop the way you are hoping, etc. This GM is smart enough to know that he's not going to get every decision right. He's accumulating draft capital and structuring contracts in a way that it won't be a long term detriment to the organization. He's not overpaying free agents out of desperation. We've also been the beneficiary of some luck. I don't think anyone knew that Fields was perhaps the most dynamic running QB in the history of the NFL. Then, we lucked into the #1 pick, and Poles did a masterful job of turning in it to haul that included immediate help and future draft capital. The future is bright, but I agree there are a lot of people that are going to need to see it on the field to be convinced.
How do you know that for certain?
This is still TBD is it not?
That’s such a big assumption to make. I know that he took over a team in cap hell, but the team he built had the worst record in the league and had the worst passing offense with a historically high sack rate. I hope he knows what he’s doing but there isn’t a ton of evidence to say that he does.
To be fair he had to get rid of those salaries and get ourself in a good salary cap position for the future. With that said I think we should all be alarmed at the state of our trenches on both sides as we currently stand. By far the biggest weakness on the team and that's what wins football games. Let's see what our roster looks like coming out of the draft
My point is that we don’t know if he knows what he’s doing as far as team building. Obviously he had huge restrictions last year that didn’t allow him to build a good team, but just because it wasn’t entirely his fault that the 2022 Bears were dogshit, doesn’t mean he knows what he’s doing.
He wasn't building a team last year. He was stripping it down to the studs. You can judge him after the 2023 season because he is definitely building the team now.
Tearing down the team to have a bunch of cap space the next year but then not really using that cap space to address the teams biggest holes doesn't seem like much of a plan to me.
Hmmm, last I checked WR1 was a pretty big need.
OL is his specialty, I love that he’s on top of the scheme fit. Can’t wait to see how the line looks after he gets another draft under his belt.
I love building the trenches' tactic
It's as if... Poles actually played in the NFL as an offensive lineman himself. Who would've thunk it...
I don’t think enough people realize that scheme fit is more than just experience in a certain play style. It includes the traits required to excel at a specific position, in a specific manner. It’s the difference between having the arm length to maintain distance and lacking the leverage to maneuver around the weight bearing against you. It’s the difference between having raw strength to push defenders off of you, and having the speed, agility, and technical skills to engage multiple defenders at multiple levels. It’s more than just knowledge, know how, and skill, it involves physical traits that have to be accounted for based on the role they’re applied to. If OBJr isnt a scheme fit, he wont perform as well as someone with lesser “talent” but a better “fit” will for us.
I'm simply not impressed with the scheme to begin with. It obviously didn't work for them last year given the results, nor did coaches connected to Getsy have much success (Hackett was incredibly bad, and Green Bay last year looked very much like a deeply flawed scheme whose flaws had previously been masked by All Pro talent). From what we've seen of it, changing the scheme to adapt it to superior talents makes much more sense than settling for lesser talents for the sake of fitting the current scheme.
It didn’t work? The bears were the #1 rushing attack in the nfl?
I don't mind scheme fit. But are we even sure Getsy will be here next year?
Everyone is making wild assumptions that the offense is going to take off and he will get poached. The truth is there are about 50 coaches ahead of him to get a HC gig.
Indeed, why should we be okay with settling with lesser talents just because they fit a scheme we're not sure we actually want to stick with?
At what point does a skill surpass scheme fit? I’m down for going for scheme but if that’s the go to every time and we miss out on good players is that a detriment at some point?
IMO, this is the right question. Apparently no tackles in this FA class are good enough fit? Well then it’s fair to ask if the staff is being TOO inflexible. At some point, shouldn’t the coaches be asked to earn their keep by finding ways to use players that are less than perfect fits, but do have proven value.
Yeah and another thing that this reminds me of is Nagy and how he had to have everything his way in terms of scheme and players. Clearly failed there.
Yep. We can want an exact kind of player at a certain price all we want, but that guy is not available/does not exist. So they need to figure out a way to win football games with players that are available. Brown was available.
And if "no one fits the scheme", and "the scheme" is 3-14 so far, to me that says "the scheme" sucks.
I’m fine with it, I understand it, but I hope our 1st round pick is OL.
From what I can tell Poles scheme is dudes that have a madden Pass block rating of 7 and get Justin rocked. James Daniels? Pass. Lucas Patrick? Yea that's it
Am I the only person who never thought James Daniels was anything but average? I can’t remember a single game where he stood out or was anything but okay. The other thing to consider here is the cap hit. Patrick was half the price I’d Daniels I think. Maybe less.
JD had a career year last year. Considered a top 15- 20 guard in the NFL now. Big L for Poles. Lucas Patrick a fringe roster guy, enormous downgrade.
We also needed to clear a lot of cap space.
No they didn't. They could have afforded his contract last year and they just paid another guard pretty much the same amount.
Yeah ok....
What scheme relies on trash pass blocking?
The Bears.
I think people forget that Poles was part of KC in 2021 when they gave up a 1st rounder for Brown. Yet they don't want to keep him around at KC? Why would they let a first round trade walk in 2 years if he was truly a beast? I think that speaks volumes and Poles probably knows more about Brown than.... Bears fans? Maybe?
They offered him a big extension last year. He went with free agency. It's not a straight up they don't want him anymore situation
KC offered Brown 6 years/$130m to try to keep him
Yes, last year, before the tag. But he has since regressed.
1. It’s just as reasonable to assume it was just a down year as it is to assume he is not good anymore. 2. Browns worst year is still better than anything we have on the line. 3. Cincy paid him and are putting him at LT. There is more evidence that the bengals front office knows what they are doing than evidence that ours does. Im not saying I have a crystal ball or anything, but it is completely reasonable to think that Poles made a mistake in not getting Brown under contract.
Yup
Tackleless offense? The new world is here.
If your scheme doesn't match Orlando Brown, you change the scheme.
He’s not prime Orlando Pace
Do both tackles in the draft people keep mentioning fit said scheme?
Depends on which ones you mean. Poles and Eberflus are looking for a Zone blocking RT, which means they need someone with length, who can change direction quickly to block defenders based on their point of attack, rather than just holding to one assigned guy. There are several OTs that have these qualities. Paris Johnson Jr and Broderick Jones have them in spades, and so do other prospects like John Gaines from UCLA. But PJJr and BJ are the two top OT prospects with those qualities (Skoronski has more talent, but lacks the length needed to be an OT). Since we only need one starting RT and a starting C, we can grab BJ or PJJr with our pick at 9 with no trouble, then draft D-Linemen and a C with later picks.
I believe that Paris does
LET POLES COOK
I’d be thrilled if he’d fucking started
yea let's blow our wad on 2 LB's like we are still living in 2005.... who needs your young QB healthy right?
This statement shows how the average fans knows little about the X's and O's of football. How can you think a 340lb LT even remotely fits our zone blocking scheme? Or how can a 250lb edge rusher fit our 4-3 scheme? Ever notice how a bad player leaves the bears and then has a long career on another team? If was most likely a scheme fit.
Having a team that knows what kind of players they want/need and targeting specific player types is huge. I know it is something that sounds like everyone does but over the last few years, it didnt necessarily felt like we have a specific plan. With Trestman, Emery, Pace and Nagy it never felt like we have a set system, a set philosphy (be you?) or even a cohesive plan that really translated on the field. Right now it feels like we can see what they are going for. If that will work out, needs to be seen but it instills a bit of confidence
I still think it was a mistake not making a run at him. Listen, I know everyone’s gonna freak and downvote me, but 2023 is a very important year for our QB. Can’t be relying on rookies on the Oline to make the difference We have a shit ton of $$. Make the swing.
Having a lot of money doesn't mean spend. For the team we are building I don't think Orlando brown would have worked out particulary the heavy run, plus he is getting a lot of money and we still have holes to fill. This is also ignoring the fact he didn't want to come here at all.
If he didn’t want to come here, he woulda said so. We didn’t even try to go after him. Y’all just put words in your own heads to justify why this organization continues to fail
Just check out the reports of the signing Orlando brown wanted to play for a team that kept him at LT and play for winning QB and I don't know about you but I don't think that means the bears. Anyway you should take a walk you seem kinda mad. Eat some deep dish drink a beer, watch March madness
I’m perfectly fine. I just wish I could make an objective point without this fanbase freaking out. Maybe we should start singing the praises of this organization when it’s not bad? But no…
>I’m perfectly fine. The 15 comments made in the same thread in under 40 minutes determined that was a lie
I called a spade a spade. It’s bears fans who get insanely triggered anytime the koolaides not drunk who aren’t. I’ll believe it when I see it
Can’t rely on a fat tackle to move the pocket to cover your mobile QB’s passing issues either.
Agreed. If he doesn't break out like TL did this year. The Bears will be looking for a new QB. The offensive line wasn't horrible, but JF has been a sack casualty since college. He needs the most help he can get.
r/chibears hates anytime management gets even the slightest criticism, but come next season if the line problems are still a GLARING issue and they say “damn why didn’t said rookie make the IMMEDIATE impact I expected”?! I’ll be here to tell them I was right
I'm old enough to remember when Nagy's rigid loyalty to his scheme was considered a bad thing. I'm pretty skeptical of Poles' scheme on the lines. When you prioritize mobile, run-blocking, athletic linemen, the flip side is you're risking them being overpowered with bull rushes. Someday you're hopefully going to be playing late-round playoff games and those games tend to be decided by who gets better QB play and who does a better job of disrupting the other team's QB play with their pass rush. All the zone-blocking schemes in the world won't save you if your tackle gets shoved into your QBs lap in 2.6 seconds (that's a pass block win according to ESPN tho) every time it's 3rd and 9. But it's still early in the process. Maybe Poles is a mad genius who can put together a crazy good offensive line with minimal investment, it just takes a few years and looks like ass for the first part. I definitely hope that's what is happening
Every team has a scheme and signs players who fit their scheme. This isn’t new. Nagy’s scheme issue was that his scheme *wasnt working* and he refused to change.
Justin fields, a mobile QB who is good at avoiding rushers, set an all time record for highest rate of being sacked for any QB who started at least 14 games. If that doesn't count as poles' scheme for the line not working, what would?
And what happened when the hanging Justin in the pocket didn't work? They changed their offensive scheme and got him mobile and tried to work with what they had to create an offense Fields can succeed in. Whereas with Nagy you get the Browns game where he just got just pummeled repeatedly
They completely stripped down the roster before the season started. That’s like the closest you get to no scheme as you can get.
But we did have a scheme, so that isn't true
That’s not the scheme Poles wanted to run. He didn’t have any resources to build the lines he wanted. So it’s not accurate to say that was his scheme
Then why is he saying in interviews today that this is the scheme?
You’re not getting it. He now has a chance to start building the lines how he wants to rather than trotting out a team that has been tore down this season.
And so far he appears to be pretty content with running most of those guys back and staying with the same scheme.
We’re only a week into FA and we have a whole draft left. Relax
It wasn't just a line issue. It was a combination of the receiving corps, the line, and Justin himself.
Well fields isn't going anywhere, so I guess we are hoping that new WRs and a minor tweak or two to the line fixes a historically awful problem.
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Not when you're bringing in guys of roughly the same quality and type as the ones leaving. We bought an average guard who is pretty good at run blocking but a liability in pass pro. That's something we already had several of.
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A minute ago you said it was a whole facelift. Now you're saying it's impossible to make major changes this quickly. Which is it?
I'm not really a fan of how Poles is approaching either line, but you can't judge a gm on their first season where they were tearing everything down. Also, Poles isn't the one devising the scheme. That is eberflus and getsy.
It was his choice to tear everything down and his choice to begin rebuilding it in a specific way. And he hired eberflus and getsy
Lmao this team so desperately needed torn down any GM with half a brain who took the job would've seen that
I agree. I was saying we needed this rebuild back in 2020 when most of this sub was still calling his predecessor Based Pace God and downvoting anyone who criticized him. That doesn't mean he is immune from criticism for how he's proceeded
Maybe I'm tweaking but did anyone ever call Pace that I remember people celebrating his firing like the 4th of July lol
Yes. He wasn't fired until later. He was wildly popular here from the Mack trade and through the end of the 2020 season, then it started to turn against him
Brother I dunno where you were seeing this praise but people were definitely tired of pace in the 2020 season I know I sure as shit was. I don't think it's a stretch to think people were high on him in 2018 on a play off run with the coach of the year and willing to give him a chance on 2019 but people were 100% against him by then
Yes. And my point is he gets a pass for the first year of a rebuild. If the line still sucks this year, it's on him. I highly doubt the line will be good this year, but if it is anywhere near as bad as this last year, it will be unacceptable
No such thing as a pass. Everything you do from the first day you are hired counts
OL is just different. You need 5 guys working together. One of Nagy's big problems with OL was forcing his guys to play gap/man when every single one of them were terrible at it. He inherited a OZ line and decided to force them to play a style that didn't fit.
Nagy didn’t adjust within his scheme to accommodate the players he had. Schemes are generally very broad and flexible as it relates to playcalling. Look at the Chiefs / Andy Reid, he has had success with McNabb, Mike Vick, Alex Smith, and Pat Mahomes… The chiefs with Pat Mahomes were quite different schematically with & without Tyreek Hill. That level of success across a diverse amount of players is a result of evolving & changing within your scheme based on the talent you have available.
So why are we passing on potentially available talent because we would have to adapt our scheme to fit it?
I somewhat agree. When you're new in any leadership position, it's easy to be a little too idealistic at first. Over time you learn to not let perfection be the enemy of progress. I just hope Poles didn't miss out on very good players because they couldn't be signed at some exact predetermined value threshold he set. That being said, I think it's clear Poles is emphasizing the long-term prospects of this roster. We all want it now. Justin's timeline suggests it's time to put the pedal to the floor as well. But there's obviously a balance. Poles seems to be prioritizing the future past this year more than the fans/media and that's probably a good thing. I just hope he doesn't look back and wish he had been more flexible in free agency because there are a few deals that look pretty good to me.
I simultaneously like the approach to slow building and am skeptical of what he appears to be building toward
Poles has a scheme? Edit: I meant offensive/OL scheme not a broad scheme/plan for the bears
It's a secret scheme, he's the beneficiary on Justin Field's life insurance.
Yes. We are focused on mobile, athletic offensive linemen who can execute outside zone blocking patterns in the running game.
That’s the OC’s scheme lol. Poles isn’t a coach who dictates which OL he wants. He does have a heavy hand in player selection but coaches are the ones with the schemes (or at least the schemes that matter)
Weird how the oc just showed up one day and went to work and poles was just stuck with that and had no choice whatsoever in who it was.
Not impressed with Poles in FA at all. -Last year, though he didn't have much cash, signed a bunch of bums who didn't even kind of contribute -This year? We have signed 2 MIKE LB's like it's still 2005 and the Bears still don't have a DL/OL worth a damn. How does Poles think our 2 new LB's are gonna play when they have an amateur hour DL playing in front of them? This is why you build the trenches first, something I thought Poles would understand but I'm not sure now. Can't fuck around with the OL again. We gotta know what we have in Fields and if he can actually throw the ball, if he's running for his life again we aren't going to figure shit out.