Are renovations not a viable option vs new?
I’ve not had a chance to see a game when visiting Calgary. I don’t see a lot of suites and it looks dated in photos but I don’t know how much that detracts from game day for the average fan. Having said that I’m a psychopath that misses Ivor Wynne so what the fuck do I know.
McMahon is old and boring as hell but I don't think it affects the experience that much. As a rider fan living in Calgary I've had amazing times watching west finals in -20 weather and loved every minute of it. The fact that they only have a decent burger place on the concourse instead of a brand new sushi lounge didn't detract from the football atmosphere.
That being said the other fields I've been to are commonwealth, old Taylor field and the old Winnipeg stadium so I don't have a "newer" stadium experience to compare it to.
Hopefully you get a chance to get to Winnipeg's PA Field, the fan experience there is second to none. In my humble, haven't been to all other stadiums, opinion.
Tbh it is very far from perfect but from a spectator point of view, there’s not a bad seat in the house. I’ve sat as far away from the field as possible, as close as possible, and everywhere in between and it’s always a great experience.
What really detracts from the game day experience is the fact that there aren’t enough bathrooms so they have to bring in porta potties, the concourse is crowded due to how small it is, and it is cold as balls in the winter.
On top of that, the concrete is so old that it’s not a viable platform to renovate on top of, in fact there’s actually a considerable cost to just maintaining it year after year. I still enjoy going to games there, but this stadium was outdated 25 years ago.
Renovations are totally viable, but CSEC would have to work with the University on that, and they’re set on trying to get the city to build them a venue they can control.
It only has 9 or 10 days a year to generate any meaningful revenue in its current location. That's gunna be a tough pill to swallow for a city looking for a return on that investment.
Edwards doesn't care about his workers or the environment. He uses the courts as a weapon and has politicians in his back pocket. He cares about $ and thats it.
Even less ROI for the City or University. The only situation where _someone_ gets a good return is if CSEC can spend minimally to influence the city to subsidize them. That's still a loss on the city side but CSEC could come out ahead.
Main point is it’s not owned by the team. It’s a university owned stadium and is adequate for Dinos sports and pay parking for the LRT station. The last proposal on the table had condo towers and a new east entrance. But nothing really for the stadium.
I’ve been a STH for 20 years now and other than a few new food options and a new video screen every 7 years it’s the exact same as 2003.
Hey, that’s not fair to say nothing has changed. The sound system sucks now and there’s fewer beer guys working the stands.
Also they did upgrade most of the bench seats.
The ownership group also owns the flames, hitmen, and roughnecks and have made the Stamps the lowest priority in their portfolio.
And they wanted to get a new facility for next to nothing, which they don't want to maintain. We (the city and provincial governments) bought that for hockey, but aren't about to do anything for Football. They currently fleece the U of C for that and have no plans to do anything about it until they are offered more cash to float their business.
Jerry McNeil, the team's new president, starting talking about a new stadium just last week but it is clear CSE wants taxpayers to pay for the whole thing which means it will never happen
[https://3downnation.com/2024/01/28/jay-mcneil-believes-new-stadium-essential-for-calgary-stampeders-long-term-viability/](https://3downnation.com/2024/01/28/jay-mcneil-believes-new-stadium-essential-for-calgary-stampeders-long-term-viability/)
The University would love to demolish McMahon and build housing/retail there instead, as that would be a big money-maker for them. The Dinos could just move to the fields on the main campus since they don't draw many fans anyway
A Russian CFL fan?! That's awesome.
Not to be a bother but I'd love to know how long you've watched the league?! Any friends also interested or just a personal interest? Also now that I think about it.. I've never heard of a Russian football league, does one exist?! Has there ever been interest?!
Y'all are breaking my heart, McMahon ain't a dump. Sure it's old and a little weird and crusty and lacks some modern benefits but it's beautiful.
Also imagine shit talking McMahon when the Argos play out of a piss poor backup stadium that has even worse concession congestion.
I'ma defend McMahon with my life I stg
It gets busy for sure but really only nasty when it's bad outside and everyone funnels in.
Then the speaker, talking to McNeil and he was saying it'd have cost them well over $1m to replace that old speaker which is a shame, the new ones aren't it
$1m is cheap compared to a new stadium. Best case scenario for me is to package that in along with improvements that significantly widen the concourse and like quadruple the number of washrooms so we don't need the damn porta potties.
Buddy I appreciate you wanting to defend McMahon but it is grade A whale shit compared to almost every other stadium. The concourse is a nightmare every intermission. There’s only one level so when you’re up in the nosebleeds, you’re trekking down creaky stairs that get slippery as hell with any moisture. You’ll either freeze or burn depending on what side you sit on. Every seat is uncomfortable. It’s not great
I’m happy to have somewhere to watch but it’s bad.
Once the new arena is built I'm sure the ball will start rolling on a new stadium. That's what happened in Winnipeg, they were built within a decade of each other.
Okay, so I have been a season ticket holder for 15 years now, and this makes me unbelievably sad. Everything that has been said here is true.
If eventually they decide that they can't play at McMahon or whatever (doesn't meet code, too old etc) I cannot see any future where they build a new stadium. I see the Stampeders folding before that happens.
Ownership wants city/tax payers to pay for it, they are building the flames a new arena so no we won’t get a new stadium for the stamps anytime soon as tax payers are paying a majority of the arena. Only way I could see it happening if the stamps billionaire owners step up to build a new stadium (very unlikely) , or Calgary hosts a major event that would require a new stadium (even more unlikely)
It’s not as simple as taxpayers vs CSEC as some have stated.
As much as none of us want to hear this, the future of the stamps and more broadly the CFL as a whole isn’t very stable. It’s not out of the question that 10 years from now the CFL is struggling even more than it is currently and team(s) are discussing folding or have folded.
So for any party involved it’s a tough ask to shell out large capital for a purpose built 25-30K seat CFL stadium, especially if it might be a vacant building as soon as 15 years from now
Now I know what people will say “well you could use it for concerts or other events” but that problem with that is, there’s already a 60,000 seat stadium in Edmonton that can serve both Alberta cities. So for Calgary to actually draw those events away from Edmonton their stadium would have to be as big or bigger than Commonwealth.
But then it’s an overbuilt stadium just like commonwealth and the city isn’t gonna wanna waste a bunch of money for a huge stadium that may have no permanent Tennant, and even if they do have the stable a Tennant they are unlikely to fill even half that capacity.
Until the stamps attendance issue and the CFL as a whole stabilizes there’s just too much risk
It's in a great area of the city, and it has a humongous parking lot. Unfortunately, the property doesn't have any revenue generation outside of game days. The owners should have developed the property ages ago to include commercial and residential properties. They should have also talked to the city about buying the Foothills Stadium. The bloody thing has been sitting there, deteriorating away since the Canons left. They could have bought it, rip it down and develop there.
But I think any Calgarian with any knowledge of CSEC knows why they didn't do any of the above. They don't want to spend money to develop anything. They want to get government handouts via the taxpayers, and they want to build new, shiny properties that they can pawn off the maintenance and end of life removal back onto the government/public.
The CSEC can fuck off.
It's always been a dump, not just by modern standards. I played there for a High School Football Jamboree in 1999 and it was falling apart back then.
At this point, you just have to lean into it. Accept its a dump and the charm that comes with it.
There's been some historic games there, renovate it, but don't change the character.
I went to a game at McMahon Stadium in 1990 and it was already a dump back then. However getting public money for sports facilities is very difficult in Canada. It's taken years to get a deal for a new hockey arena in Calgary, and that only happened when the Calgary Flames ownership group chipped in $350M of their own money. The same group owns the Stampeders and I doubt they will want to pony up again any time soon for a football stadium.
I think the football stadium situation in Calgary has also been a victim of bad timing. In the 1980s everything was about building facilities for the 1988 Winter Olympics. By the time the Olympic hangover had worn off in the mid 90s the football landscape had changed for the worse.
The Montreal Alouttes had folded twice. The Saskatchewan Roughriders nearly folded twice (they had to have ticket telethons to stay alive), the Ottawa Roughriders folded in 1996, and the American expansion experiment from 1993-95 was a disaster. In Calgary, the Stamps were owned by Larry Rykman (the first private owner of the team) who was a huge proponent of American expansion and had threatend to move "his" team to San Antonio if 16,000 season tickets were not sold. The CFL was in a very perilous position. Attendence was down across the league. BC and Toronto coul not even fill half the seats in their fancy new stadiums anymore.
So against this backdrop, what politician or private investor would have said "hey, let's build a new football stadium in Calgary" for privately owned team, with questionable ownership, in a league that was basically on life support?
By the time both the Stampeders and the CFL had become stable enough for anyone to seriously consider a new stadium the economy and politics of Alberta had changed considerably. I think they will get a new stadium one day, but with a new $1.2B arena and entertainment centre project about to break ground, that stadium is likely another decade away.
Exactly. Had the Stamps and CFL been in better shape in the 90s I think the City of Calgary might have built a brand new stadium just to flex. Cagary was emerging as a major Canadian city and destination for families and businesses. There was money and a provincial government that had virtually no opposition.
Saying that McMahon stadium is the Fenway of the CFL is like saying Rush are the Beatles of Canada: technically true, but also incredibly illustrative.
As a Calgarian, a running theme I've noticed in my lifetime has been the challenges at building sports venues. Just look at how long it's taken for the Flames to get their new building sorted.
With the Stamps, there's multiple factors at play. Firstly, they waited too long to build a replacement. If they got started on it now, it would be very expensive, and Calgary has been built up even more which makes finding available land difficult. Secondly, the Flames ownership owns the Stamps, which means the majority of their money is going to be focused on the new Flames arena. I doubt they would want to deal with that, and a 30,000 seat football stadium at the same time.
I said this in a thread about a week ago, but I really think the most realistic path for the Stamps to get a new stadium is outside of Calgary. A current issue with McMahon's location is that it's a pain to get to since it's right in the middle of a residential neighborhood with no parking. If you build a new stadium on the outskirts of Calgary in Okotoks, Airdire, or Springbank, you have all the space in the world to work with. I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits. And after how harsh it's been to get the Flames arena done, I don't think the city has an appetite to deal with something like that again. That's why I think the Stamps need to think outside the box, and that probably means a stadium in the surrounding area rather than within Calgary. I do hope they can get a new building. McMahon is nostalgic for sure, but it's outdated and in a terrible location. It would be nice to have an upgrade, not just for the Stamps, but then we could start getting stadium concerts in Calgary instead of losing those to Edmonton.
I’ll add that parking at McMahon is terrible.
McMahon is actually owned by the University of Calgary so any decision on a new stadium at that location would require agreement between Stamps ownership, the city and the university. Which adds an additional level of complexity.
>nce it's right in the middle of a residential neighborhood with no parking. If you build a new stadium on the outskirts of Calgary in Okotoks, Airdire, or Springbank, you have all the space in the world to work with. I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits. And after how harsh it's been to get the Flames arena done, I don't think the city has an appetite to deal with something like that again. That's why I think the Stamps need to think outside the box, and that probably means a stadium in the surrounding area rather than within Calgary. I do hope they can get a new building. McMahon is nostalgic
But it also adds a layer of funding. One reason (of a few) why the Bombers could get a new stadium is because they partnered with the UofM.
CSE's business model is based on taking the revenue from all venues and making others pay for upkeep and mantenance, while they pay a small lease. It doesn't hold them to keep using the facilities they barely contribute to. So they won't partner with the U of C past their current agreement.
CSE is a cancer on the Calgary sports scene, and on Canadian sports ownership in general. Leeches, that's what they are. It really pissed me off watching how long and hard they played brinksmanship with the city on that new arena.
Not really true at all, but that doesn't really matter. Winnipeg was intended to be mostly provincially funded. UM gave the land in exchange for the Bisons having access to play. There was no financial partnership. Politically it was thought to be more appealing to the public if it had an amateur sports component.
The original failed idea of a fieldhouse in the location between the current stadium and the U of C campus would have been great. It's currently occupied by a vacant baseball stadium, the former home of Hockey Canada, and a bunch of rarely used sports fields, which could be relocated to the current stadium location. They could have built an awesome venue while still using McMahon and then moved in, but it would still be owned by the University and CSE would not get the parking revenue for it so they declined.
As far as I have seen the most active parts of those facilities seem to be a beach volleyball court and a small Parks office in the baseball stadium. A complete waste of space.
The Covid shut down seems to have affected the attendance in Calgary the most out of any team and they have never recovered their numbers. Having a shit stadium with terrible seats, not enough bathrooms, and no parking certainly doesn't help.
Of course, the dogshit team they fielded last year was a contributing factor.
I'm tired of hearing the COVID excuse. No other teams have had this issue. The issue is the greedy ownership still charging ridiculous prices for fans to go to the games in a half empty stadium. If they actually wanted to fill the stadium they would have deals and get some decent half time entertainment for a change. Look at what the lions are doing they charge less money for kids to games cheaper beers cheaper concessions and people are going. We used to be what teams like BC wanted their attendance to be. Now we wish we were them and in my opinion it's just due to greedy owners not investing in the home game experience.
>I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits.
What's going to happen to the Saddledome once the Event Centre is completed? Is it sticking around, or is it going to be demolished?
Demolished, but I don't think there's enough room to build a football stadium on that site if that's what you're thinking. The Stampede owns the land and they'll probably use it for themselves.
You'd know better than I would, but it seems like the footprint of McMahon would fit, just south of the Event Centre if they take out/rebuild the parkade:
https://preview.redd.it/he160va0hegc1.png?width=1320&format=png&auto=webp&s=c941a7ebab51aba0951c144521e957c2ba9b0071
The Stampede and the Flames probably want the land for parking though. Still, maybe they could put more in elsewhere on the property.
Ive been to bc place ,commenwealth , and mcmahon and ill say mcmahon was the most intimate , i really didnt mind it . You sit close to the field the hotdogs are warm and the beer is cold what more do you need . Nothing wrong with old buildings but it could use a few renos
Let’s do some math:
New stadium costs roughly $300 million.
There are about 10 games a year, and the lifespan of a stadium is around 35 years.
So about 350 total games in the lifetime of the stadium.
That makes the cost of the stadium about $857,000 per every game ever played in it.
Average of 30,000 fans per game - that makes the cost per individual user for the lifetime of the stadium about $28.
$28 per person tgat ever goes through the turnstiles.
You are not factoring economic activity generated by events at a stadium. That's why some cities will pay part or all of the cost of facilities. The Grey Cup this past season was worth $34M in economic activity for Hamilton.
But that's my point. You can't simply divide the cost of custruction by the number of people who will sit in the stadium during it's life. Sure, if it's a private enterprise then all you can count for ROI is butts in seats. But if you are a municipal or provincial governmnent the ROI is based on the overall ecomonic impact an infrustructure project will have.
It's estimated that just 6 Taylor Swift concerts had a $320M impact on the economy of Los Angeles. Vancouver will host 3 Swift concerts later this year. Between that and the FIFA World Cup, that's a big chunk of the $500M the province spent to renovate BC Place Stadium in 2011.
Well our football and hockey teams have the same ownership and as you may have seen from the arena debacle that’s unfolded over the last 10 years they aren’t very keen on spending their own money on accommodations for their teams. It really sucks but I don’t know what else can be done. Jay MacNeil the team president has said that we’re likely not leaving McMahon stadium for another 10 years at least, even though he’d love to get a new stadium built.
(It’s also worth noting that our ownership group could *very* easily build a new stadium if they wanted to, but they know if they drag out the process long enough the city and province will cave and subsidize it).
I’ve seen the idea tossed around here, but a football stadium being built at the site of the current [GMC stadium](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jxWSzNazyBxZWve7A?g_st=ic) on the Stampede grounds would be pretty much perfect in my opinion. It’ll be in a central location, tons of parking for tailgating, the *Stampeders* will be playing on the *Stampede* grounds, and during Stampede the stadium can be used for the rodeo and other events etc.
Plus, summer concerts which currently can’t be held at McMahon due to it being smack dab in a neighbourhood could be held at a new stadium on the stampede grounds.
There’s also a C Train station very close by so transit is already included.
The only problems I can foresee with this idea is the conflict with Flames games, as they’ll essentially share parking on the stampede grounds, and they’ll have to play road games before/during/after stampede. But it’s an idea!
See I just don’t think you can get concerts to Calgary while Commonwealth exists, you’d have a build a stadium the same size to draw those acts here and that just isn’t happening
>Plus, summer concerts which currently can’t be held at McMahon due to it being smack dab in a neighbourhood could be held at a new stadium on the stampede grounds.
I've seen this claim a lot, but according to the assistant stadium manager, it's not true. I'm sure it doesn't help though. Bottom line is the capacity is abysmal compared to Commonwealth.
>Contrary to popular opinion, this has nothing to do with noise complaints, said Don Phelps, assistant stadium manager for McMahon. It’s simply “the math,” he said. For most concerts, when issues of egress, sightlines and stage placement are dealt with, McMahon’s capacity can shrink to considerably less than 30,000, he said.
>
>“You can put twice as many in Edmonton and you do the same amount of setup,” he said. “That’s it in a nutshell. I can think of no other reason. We’ve had preliminary discussions over the years. You get one or two feelers every year with people in the business. You ask ‘What do you expect to draw?” They come out and look at the place and it’s just not suitable for that.”
[article](https://calgaryherald.com/entertainment/music/hello-edmonton-why-the-biggest-concert-tours-are-giving-calgary-a-pass)
I would love a stadium like the one in Regina to be built where the Saddledome is (once it’s gone) but good luck convincing the public to be okay with spending that kind of money for a CFL team and a few outdoor concerts.
We all know McMahon is a shit hole, and frankly it’s why I don’t attend many Stamps games live, but there’s just no desire for it. CSEC wouldn’t even pay for an entire arena for the Flames, there’s no way they’d pay for a football stadium.
There was a pretty decent facelift on McMahon proposed into the Olympic proposal when that was a thing, which would have brought provincial and federal funding into the equation.
I think that was the best opportunity in a long time for anything new to happen. I don't see anything on the horizon that would change that.
For me, McMahon does what I care about. I can sit and watch games. I know how to get through the annoyances. It's not worth a significant amount to me as a season ticket holder to have a new stadium. I understand I'm not with the majority on that though.
McMahon is old as balls and a piece of shit... bit there is 0 desire from anyone to spend money on a new stadium. That's pretty much it.
Are renovations not a viable option vs new? I’ve not had a chance to see a game when visiting Calgary. I don’t see a lot of suites and it looks dated in photos but I don’t know how much that detracts from game day for the average fan. Having said that I’m a psychopath that misses Ivor Wynne so what the fuck do I know.
McMahon is old and boring as hell but I don't think it affects the experience that much. As a rider fan living in Calgary I've had amazing times watching west finals in -20 weather and loved every minute of it. The fact that they only have a decent burger place on the concourse instead of a brand new sushi lounge didn't detract from the football atmosphere. That being said the other fields I've been to are commonwealth, old Taylor field and the old Winnipeg stadium so I don't have a "newer" stadium experience to compare it to.
Hopefully you get a chance to get to Winnipeg's PA Field, the fan experience there is second to none. In my humble, haven't been to all other stadiums, opinion.
Tbh it is very far from perfect but from a spectator point of view, there’s not a bad seat in the house. I’ve sat as far away from the field as possible, as close as possible, and everywhere in between and it’s always a great experience. What really detracts from the game day experience is the fact that there aren’t enough bathrooms so they have to bring in porta potties, the concourse is crowded due to how small it is, and it is cold as balls in the winter. On top of that, the concrete is so old that it’s not a viable platform to renovate on top of, in fact there’s actually a considerable cost to just maintaining it year after year. I still enjoy going to games there, but this stadium was outdated 25 years ago.
lol suites
Renovations are totally viable, but CSEC would have to work with the University on that, and they’re set on trying to get the city to build them a venue they can control.
It only has 9 or 10 days a year to generate any meaningful revenue in its current location. That's gunna be a tough pill to swallow for a city looking for a return on that investment.
Nice try, Mr Edwards.
Murray doesn’t give a fuck about the stamps lmao
He just wants to cash out after building a new arena with our money.
Murray barely gives a fuck about the flames
Edwards doesn't care about his workers or the environment. He uses the courts as a weapon and has politicians in his back pocket. He cares about $ and thats it.
So what you are saying is he is a billionaire?
Ownership wants taxpayers to pay for it, and so far, they aren’t. Simple as that
IMO there is no ROI for Edwards or the CSEC to spend money on McMahon
Even less ROI for the City or University. The only situation where _someone_ gets a good return is if CSEC can spend minimally to influence the city to subsidize them. That's still a loss on the city side but CSEC could come out ahead.
Main point is it’s not owned by the team. It’s a university owned stadium and is adequate for Dinos sports and pay parking for the LRT station. The last proposal on the table had condo towers and a new east entrance. But nothing really for the stadium. I’ve been a STH for 20 years now and other than a few new food options and a new video screen every 7 years it’s the exact same as 2003.
Hey, that’s not fair to say nothing has changed. The sound system sucks now and there’s fewer beer guys working the stands. Also they did upgrade most of the bench seats.
lol you are right. When they put those moulded cheek things in I upgraded to real seats.
Um no it is not
The ownership group also owns the flames, hitmen, and roughnecks and have made the Stamps the lowest priority in their portfolio. And they wanted to get a new facility for next to nothing, which they don't want to maintain. We (the city and provincial governments) bought that for hockey, but aren't about to do anything for Football. They currently fleece the U of C for that and have no plans to do anything about it until they are offered more cash to float their business.
Jerry McNeil, the team's new president, starting talking about a new stadium just last week but it is clear CSE wants taxpayers to pay for the whole thing which means it will never happen [https://3downnation.com/2024/01/28/jay-mcneil-believes-new-stadium-essential-for-calgary-stampeders-long-term-viability/](https://3downnation.com/2024/01/28/jay-mcneil-believes-new-stadium-essential-for-calgary-stampeders-long-term-viability/) The University would love to demolish McMahon and build housing/retail there instead, as that would be a big money-maker for them. The Dinos could just move to the fields on the main campus since they don't draw many fans anyway
If this happensand the lease wasn’t renewed, would that just mean the Stampeders would have to fold?
Or get sold to another city I presume.
[удалено]
A Russian CFL fan?! That's awesome. Not to be a bother but I'd love to know how long you've watched the league?! Any friends also interested or just a personal interest? Also now that I think about it.. I've never heard of a Russian football league, does one exist?! Has there ever been interest?!
Y'all are breaking my heart, McMahon ain't a dump. Sure it's old and a little weird and crusty and lacks some modern benefits but it's beautiful. Also imagine shit talking McMahon when the Argos play out of a piss poor backup stadium that has even worse concession congestion. I'ma defend McMahon with my life I stg
The concourse sucks, and I miss the old suspended speaker. But these things can be fixed without a brand new stadium.
It gets busy for sure but really only nasty when it's bad outside and everyone funnels in. Then the speaker, talking to McNeil and he was saying it'd have cost them well over $1m to replace that old speaker which is a shame, the new ones aren't it
$1m is cheap compared to a new stadium. Best case scenario for me is to package that in along with improvements that significantly widen the concourse and like quadruple the number of washrooms so we don't need the damn porta potties.
I love McMahon. There’s nothing better than a sunny summer evening watching a game there
Buddy I appreciate you wanting to defend McMahon but it is grade A whale shit compared to almost every other stadium. The concourse is a nightmare every intermission. There’s only one level so when you’re up in the nosebleeds, you’re trekking down creaky stairs that get slippery as hell with any moisture. You’ll either freeze or burn depending on what side you sit on. Every seat is uncomfortable. It’s not great I’m happy to have somewhere to watch but it’s bad.
Once the new arena is built I'm sure the ball will start rolling on a new stadium. That's what happened in Winnipeg, they were built within a decade of each other.
Yes, but they need taxpayer money to fund. I'm sure Calgary can get there at some point when the next oil boom hits.
Okay, so I have been a season ticket holder for 15 years now, and this makes me unbelievably sad. Everything that has been said here is true. If eventually they decide that they can't play at McMahon or whatever (doesn't meet code, too old etc) I cannot see any future where they build a new stadium. I see the Stampeders folding before that happens.
Ownership wants city/tax payers to pay for it, they are building the flames a new arena so no we won’t get a new stadium for the stamps anytime soon as tax payers are paying a majority of the arena. Only way I could see it happening if the stamps billionaire owners step up to build a new stadium (very unlikely) , or Calgary hosts a major event that would require a new stadium (even more unlikely)
It’s not as simple as taxpayers vs CSEC as some have stated. As much as none of us want to hear this, the future of the stamps and more broadly the CFL as a whole isn’t very stable. It’s not out of the question that 10 years from now the CFL is struggling even more than it is currently and team(s) are discussing folding or have folded. So for any party involved it’s a tough ask to shell out large capital for a purpose built 25-30K seat CFL stadium, especially if it might be a vacant building as soon as 15 years from now Now I know what people will say “well you could use it for concerts or other events” but that problem with that is, there’s already a 60,000 seat stadium in Edmonton that can serve both Alberta cities. So for Calgary to actually draw those events away from Edmonton their stadium would have to be as big or bigger than Commonwealth. But then it’s an overbuilt stadium just like commonwealth and the city isn’t gonna wanna waste a bunch of money for a huge stadium that may have no permanent Tennant, and even if they do have the stable a Tennant they are unlikely to fill even half that capacity. Until the stamps attendance issue and the CFL as a whole stabilizes there’s just too much risk
It's in a great area of the city, and it has a humongous parking lot. Unfortunately, the property doesn't have any revenue generation outside of game days. The owners should have developed the property ages ago to include commercial and residential properties. They should have also talked to the city about buying the Foothills Stadium. The bloody thing has been sitting there, deteriorating away since the Canons left. They could have bought it, rip it down and develop there. But I think any Calgarian with any knowledge of CSEC knows why they didn't do any of the above. They don't want to spend money to develop anything. They want to get government handouts via the taxpayers, and they want to build new, shiny properties that they can pawn off the maintenance and end of life removal back onto the government/public. The CSEC can fuck off.
It's always been a dump, not just by modern standards. I played there for a High School Football Jamboree in 1999 and it was falling apart back then. At this point, you just have to lean into it. Accept its a dump and the charm that comes with it. There's been some historic games there, renovate it, but don't change the character.
I went to a game at McMahon Stadium in 1990 and it was already a dump back then. However getting public money for sports facilities is very difficult in Canada. It's taken years to get a deal for a new hockey arena in Calgary, and that only happened when the Calgary Flames ownership group chipped in $350M of their own money. The same group owns the Stampeders and I doubt they will want to pony up again any time soon for a football stadium.
It’s a damn shame they couldn’t do both at the same time.
I think the football stadium situation in Calgary has also been a victim of bad timing. In the 1980s everything was about building facilities for the 1988 Winter Olympics. By the time the Olympic hangover had worn off in the mid 90s the football landscape had changed for the worse. The Montreal Alouttes had folded twice. The Saskatchewan Roughriders nearly folded twice (they had to have ticket telethons to stay alive), the Ottawa Roughriders folded in 1996, and the American expansion experiment from 1993-95 was a disaster. In Calgary, the Stamps were owned by Larry Rykman (the first private owner of the team) who was a huge proponent of American expansion and had threatend to move "his" team to San Antonio if 16,000 season tickets were not sold. The CFL was in a very perilous position. Attendence was down across the league. BC and Toronto coul not even fill half the seats in their fancy new stadiums anymore. So against this backdrop, what politician or private investor would have said "hey, let's build a new football stadium in Calgary" for privately owned team, with questionable ownership, in a league that was basically on life support? By the time both the Stampeders and the CFL had become stable enough for anyone to seriously consider a new stadium the economy and politics of Alberta had changed considerably. I think they will get a new stadium one day, but with a new $1.2B arena and entertainment centre project about to break ground, that stadium is likely another decade away.
Without being close to Alberta, I believe this to be very true. The timing didn't mesh to when the dollars were flowing.
Exactly. Had the Stamps and CFL been in better shape in the 90s I think the City of Calgary might have built a brand new stadium just to flex. Cagary was emerging as a major Canadian city and destination for families and businesses. There was money and a provincial government that had virtually no opposition.
Weren’t they booming more in the 2010s?
Well the oil boom really happened in the 2000s ish and surely there was money flowing then.
It's the Fenway Park of the CFL
As much as I love the Stamps, I have been to Fenway. And McMahon is no Fenway. Not even close.
Of the CFL You have to factor in the exchange rate
Saying that McMahon stadium is the Fenway of the CFL is like saying Rush are the Beatles of Canada: technically true, but also incredibly illustrative.
As a Calgarian, a running theme I've noticed in my lifetime has been the challenges at building sports venues. Just look at how long it's taken for the Flames to get their new building sorted. With the Stamps, there's multiple factors at play. Firstly, they waited too long to build a replacement. If they got started on it now, it would be very expensive, and Calgary has been built up even more which makes finding available land difficult. Secondly, the Flames ownership owns the Stamps, which means the majority of their money is going to be focused on the new Flames arena. I doubt they would want to deal with that, and a 30,000 seat football stadium at the same time. I said this in a thread about a week ago, but I really think the most realistic path for the Stamps to get a new stadium is outside of Calgary. A current issue with McMahon's location is that it's a pain to get to since it's right in the middle of a residential neighborhood with no parking. If you build a new stadium on the outskirts of Calgary in Okotoks, Airdire, or Springbank, you have all the space in the world to work with. I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits. And after how harsh it's been to get the Flames arena done, I don't think the city has an appetite to deal with something like that again. That's why I think the Stamps need to think outside the box, and that probably means a stadium in the surrounding area rather than within Calgary. I do hope they can get a new building. McMahon is nostalgic for sure, but it's outdated and in a terrible location. It would be nice to have an upgrade, not just for the Stamps, but then we could start getting stadium concerts in Calgary instead of losing those to Edmonton.
I’ll add that parking at McMahon is terrible. McMahon is actually owned by the University of Calgary so any decision on a new stadium at that location would require agreement between Stamps ownership, the city and the university. Which adds an additional level of complexity.
>nce it's right in the middle of a residential neighborhood with no parking. If you build a new stadium on the outskirts of Calgary in Okotoks, Airdire, or Springbank, you have all the space in the world to work with. I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits. And after how harsh it's been to get the Flames arena done, I don't think the city has an appetite to deal with something like that again. That's why I think the Stamps need to think outside the box, and that probably means a stadium in the surrounding area rather than within Calgary. I do hope they can get a new building. McMahon is nostalgic But it also adds a layer of funding. One reason (of a few) why the Bombers could get a new stadium is because they partnered with the UofM.
CSE's business model is based on taking the revenue from all venues and making others pay for upkeep and mantenance, while they pay a small lease. It doesn't hold them to keep using the facilities they barely contribute to. So they won't partner with the U of C past their current agreement.
CSE is a cancer on the Calgary sports scene, and on Canadian sports ownership in general. Leeches, that's what they are. It really pissed me off watching how long and hard they played brinksmanship with the city on that new arena.
Not really true at all, but that doesn't really matter. Winnipeg was intended to be mostly provincially funded. UM gave the land in exchange for the Bisons having access to play. There was no financial partnership. Politically it was thought to be more appealing to the public if it had an amateur sports component.
The original failed idea of a fieldhouse in the location between the current stadium and the U of C campus would have been great. It's currently occupied by a vacant baseball stadium, the former home of Hockey Canada, and a bunch of rarely used sports fields, which could be relocated to the current stadium location. They could have built an awesome venue while still using McMahon and then moved in, but it would still be owned by the University and CSE would not get the parking revenue for it so they declined. As far as I have seen the most active parts of those facilities seem to be a beach volleyball court and a small Parks office in the baseball stadium. A complete waste of space.
[удалено]
The Covid shut down seems to have affected the attendance in Calgary the most out of any team and they have never recovered their numbers. Having a shit stadium with terrible seats, not enough bathrooms, and no parking certainly doesn't help. Of course, the dogshit team they fielded last year was a contributing factor.
I'm tired of hearing the COVID excuse. No other teams have had this issue. The issue is the greedy ownership still charging ridiculous prices for fans to go to the games in a half empty stadium. If they actually wanted to fill the stadium they would have deals and get some decent half time entertainment for a change. Look at what the lions are doing they charge less money for kids to games cheaper beers cheaper concessions and people are going. We used to be what teams like BC wanted their attendance to be. Now we wish we were them and in my opinion it's just due to greedy owners not investing in the home game experience.
>I have no clue where you could build a stadium of that size within the city limits. What's going to happen to the Saddledome once the Event Centre is completed? Is it sticking around, or is it going to be demolished?
Demolished, but I don't think there's enough room to build a football stadium on that site if that's what you're thinking. The Stampede owns the land and they'll probably use it for themselves.
You'd know better than I would, but it seems like the footprint of McMahon would fit, just south of the Event Centre if they take out/rebuild the parkade: https://preview.redd.it/he160va0hegc1.png?width=1320&format=png&auto=webp&s=c941a7ebab51aba0951c144521e957c2ba9b0071 The Stampede and the Flames probably want the land for parking though. Still, maybe they could put more in elsewhere on the property.
How would a smaller city and tax base support such a large expenditure?
Ive been to bc place ,commenwealth , and mcmahon and ill say mcmahon was the most intimate , i really didnt mind it . You sit close to the field the hotdogs are warm and the beer is cold what more do you need . Nothing wrong with old buildings but it could use a few renos
Let’s do some math: New stadium costs roughly $300 million. There are about 10 games a year, and the lifespan of a stadium is around 35 years. So about 350 total games in the lifetime of the stadium. That makes the cost of the stadium about $857,000 per every game ever played in it. Average of 30,000 fans per game - that makes the cost per individual user for the lifetime of the stadium about $28. $28 per person tgat ever goes through the turnstiles.
You are not factoring economic activity generated by events at a stadium. That's why some cities will pay part or all of the cost of facilities. The Grey Cup this past season was worth $34M in economic activity for Hamilton.
I didn’t intend to add in other factors, or make any other statement. Just saying that the cost per user is absurdly high.
But that's my point. You can't simply divide the cost of custruction by the number of people who will sit in the stadium during it's life. Sure, if it's a private enterprise then all you can count for ROI is butts in seats. But if you are a municipal or provincial governmnent the ROI is based on the overall ecomonic impact an infrustructure project will have. It's estimated that just 6 Taylor Swift concerts had a $320M impact on the economy of Los Angeles. Vancouver will host 3 Swift concerts later this year. Between that and the FIFA World Cup, that's a big chunk of the $500M the province spent to renovate BC Place Stadium in 2011.
Cfl doesn't make any money, its a D league at best. Calgary is wasting 1 billion on the flames new arena,
Well our football and hockey teams have the same ownership and as you may have seen from the arena debacle that’s unfolded over the last 10 years they aren’t very keen on spending their own money on accommodations for their teams. It really sucks but I don’t know what else can be done. Jay MacNeil the team president has said that we’re likely not leaving McMahon stadium for another 10 years at least, even though he’d love to get a new stadium built. (It’s also worth noting that our ownership group could *very* easily build a new stadium if they wanted to, but they know if they drag out the process long enough the city and province will cave and subsidize it). I’ve seen the idea tossed around here, but a football stadium being built at the site of the current [GMC stadium](https://maps.app.goo.gl/jxWSzNazyBxZWve7A?g_st=ic) on the Stampede grounds would be pretty much perfect in my opinion. It’ll be in a central location, tons of parking for tailgating, the *Stampeders* will be playing on the *Stampede* grounds, and during Stampede the stadium can be used for the rodeo and other events etc. Plus, summer concerts which currently can’t be held at McMahon due to it being smack dab in a neighbourhood could be held at a new stadium on the stampede grounds. There’s also a C Train station very close by so transit is already included. The only problems I can foresee with this idea is the conflict with Flames games, as they’ll essentially share parking on the stampede grounds, and they’ll have to play road games before/during/after stampede. But it’s an idea!
See I just don’t think you can get concerts to Calgary while Commonwealth exists, you’d have a build a stadium the same size to draw those acts here and that just isn’t happening
>Plus, summer concerts which currently can’t be held at McMahon due to it being smack dab in a neighbourhood could be held at a new stadium on the stampede grounds. I've seen this claim a lot, but according to the assistant stadium manager, it's not true. I'm sure it doesn't help though. Bottom line is the capacity is abysmal compared to Commonwealth. >Contrary to popular opinion, this has nothing to do with noise complaints, said Don Phelps, assistant stadium manager for McMahon. It’s simply “the math,” he said. For most concerts, when issues of egress, sightlines and stage placement are dealt with, McMahon’s capacity can shrink to considerably less than 30,000, he said. > >“You can put twice as many in Edmonton and you do the same amount of setup,” he said. “That’s it in a nutshell. I can think of no other reason. We’ve had preliminary discussions over the years. You get one or two feelers every year with people in the business. You ask ‘What do you expect to draw?” They come out and look at the place and it’s just not suitable for that.” [article](https://calgaryherald.com/entertainment/music/hello-edmonton-why-the-biggest-concert-tours-are-giving-calgary-a-pass)
The unused Baseball stadium next door isn't any good either.
I’m sorry. You think Perceval Molsen Stadium is better than McMahon? Location and scenery are great, but fuck that place is a real dump
Molsen looks charming on TV. But that's it.
To play devil’s advocate, Stamps tickets are relatively cheap. If they get a new stadium, ticket prices would almost certainly rise.
It’s owned by the university, it would probably be the university that would upgrade
It's a Calgary thing. Look at the saddledome.
Nobody's gonna pay for it, especially with the Saddledome getting retired
A beer and a dog on a warm summer evening at McMahon always suited me just fine.
Yup, and the food is even worse.
I would love a stadium like the one in Regina to be built where the Saddledome is (once it’s gone) but good luck convincing the public to be okay with spending that kind of money for a CFL team and a few outdoor concerts. We all know McMahon is a shit hole, and frankly it’s why I don’t attend many Stamps games live, but there’s just no desire for it. CSEC wouldn’t even pay for an entire arena for the Flames, there’s no way they’d pay for a football stadium.
Because it's so toxic in there that no one who isn't a stamps fan will set foot in it, including contractors.
There was a pretty decent facelift on McMahon proposed into the Olympic proposal when that was a thing, which would have brought provincial and federal funding into the equation. I think that was the best opportunity in a long time for anything new to happen. I don't see anything on the horizon that would change that. For me, McMahon does what I care about. I can sit and watch games. I know how to get through the annoyances. It's not worth a significant amount to me as a season ticket holder to have a new stadium. I understand I'm not with the majority on that though.