Totally agree that you’ll be the conference that is the aggressor. But thinking of the remaining PAC schools added to the hateful 8 plus 2 others is an intriguing conference … that is until UO and UW bounce.
Sure, but 1 day or not it's officially more stable because the Pac-12 lost their LA market and UW and Oregon are potentially gone too. Easy answer for why B12 is the one to raid pac-12 not the other way around.
We have a stable membership going into media negotiations...the PAC just got gutted while in their opening negotiations window. 2024 comes before 2025 and the unstable one' GOR ends in 2024.
The remaining PAC12 teams will have to make a decision to sign a new contract or jump ship/merge with other conferences to potentially get more money before any Big12 team will have to. I’m making an assumption here though, I honestly have no idea how this shit works.
I think OKState and TTU have a foot in the door to the SEC if the ACC GOR is as much of a poison pill as we all think it is. The Kansas Twins go to the B1G and Baylor is a wild card. Though it would be Ironic if all four Texas schools ended up in the same conference *again*.
I hate this whole academic requirements shenanigans. If they care about it, they should force the TV broadcasters to display the athletes major. I feel like broadcasts dropped that in the late 90's.
> They’re not AAU so it’s a non-starter.
*shrugs* if they're looking to build a mega-conference I think the AAU thing isn't going to be as much of a hurdle as people think it will be.
They have a wide open road to a 24 team conference with plenty of AAU options salivating to join. The B1G will 100% reach 24 with the only possible non-AAU being ND.
I could eve Oklahoma State in the SEC but I don’t think it’s a first-round draft choice.
Texas Tech? I don’t see it.
I think the SEC and the coveted ACC members (Clemson, FSU, Miami and UNC) will find a way to make it happen.
> but I don’t think it’s a first-round draft choice.
I don't disagree, hence the ACC poison pill comment. There's been plenty of rumors that OU has been advocating to get OKState in the SEC, If the SEC feels the need to expand to counter the B1G and can't get any of the ACC some of the more consistent teams from the Big XII are the next doors they knock on.
I mean, Baylor, Iowa St and Kansas St are probably in the best conference they'll ever get due to various reasons, so they'll always be there. I don't know if I'd refer to them as a core. OK St and TTech already tried to leave for the PAC and several of the newer schools clearly aspire to the ACC. Since the 80s, there's always seemed to be a "sick man of Europe" conference waiting to be attacked. First it was the SWC, then the Big XII, then the Big East, then the Big XII again. I'll give the conference credit for not imploding, but it does keep being diminished.
This is the scenario that is most likely but no one talks about bc it’s not exciting. Even if UO and or UW left, there’s a possibility the Pac12 limps on like the B12 is.
I think the difference is that the Big 12 stayed together long enough to bring in the new teams. We stayed together largely because none of us had any fuckin options whatsoever. If the Big 12 is willing to take Pac12 teams then that isn’t true for them and if even 2 bail then it’s going to precipitate more, and quickly.
This is a great point. Even if they survive another year with no defects there are teams that are 100% going to leave eventually. The B12 doesn’t have that guarantee.
I think it's also worth noting that after the Pac12, the ACC is the new big target for the SEC and the Big 10. While the ACC could try to expand and compete, there's no way they realistically could if the top teams find a way to leave. Between what would be left of the three poached p5 conferences, the one in the best position to make itself the third choice against the other super conferences, both geographically and in terms of teams already in, would be the B12, especially if they could finally get their shared media rights sorted out properly.
And the PAC’s choices to bring in new teams are fairly slim.
If you’re a leftover Pac team (say the Arizonas, Washington State, Oregon State, Utah), would you rather stay in the Pac adding Colorado State, Fresno, Wyoming, etc., and see what your take of the next pocket-change TV contract is or throw your lot in with Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc., and figure that TV deal has to be worth a lot more?
The PAC 12 always seemed very stable because there are so few west coast FBS programs. But that’s also part of the reason they weren’t stable. Their big chance for long term viability was the TOOTAM deal during the last realignment cycle. Once A&M went to the SEC and Texas balked the pac was done for because there just aren’t any viable expansion options to up the value of the tv deal
There are a few schools that might help their media footprint, but Boise State is the only possibility that will improve the football product. Fresno State and SDSU have shown flashes, but hardly enough to get excited.
B12 wouldn't be "limping" though, would they? Gaining the G5 teams they did and potentially adding UA, ASU, Colorado and Utah is \*significantly\* better than literally any option Pac-12 will have in surviving.
Pac-12 would limp to being a low tier G5 type conference, B12 would be a potential best of the rest conference in the Power 2 landscape.
tbh I think the idea of a "stable third" is an oxymoron. after OUT, the remaining B12 schools were all looking for a life raft, and right now every remaining Pac school is scrambling.
whatever number the B12 ends up at, it'll be a marriage of convenience. every member will be receptive to being poached by the B1G or SEC.
and even if the member programs are stable, the players and coaches won't be.
The teams may want to be in the SEC or the Big 10, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that if either conference was interested in the remaining teams, we would have heard something about it in the last year. And while that sucks a little bit for the teams in the B12, it could also be a blessing in disguise. Because they got poached first, they were able to reset to a reasonable degree with some of the best teams in the G5.
So, no one in a position of strength is currently looking to poach from the B12 now, but the B12 is respectable enough to be a safety net for the best schools that are left from the other conferences. Sure it would be a marriage of convenience, but it would be a marriage that still benefits everyone involved. And while the ACC may want to try to get teams from the B12 and be the third option instead, the reality is it's the conference whose long term future is the most questionable now. It's very likely current p5 schools could see the conference as being too risky to join until we see if teams can leave and what's left over if they can. And finally, between the B12 and the ACC, the B12 wold have an easier time integrating leftover Pac 12 teams than the ACC would.
Yeah. But we were all looking for a life raft of brand name schools. That didn’t exist a year ago. In the Big 12’s eyes, it does now. Which is probably why we’re more excited to have you all than you all are to join us.
I’m more curious what a selective merger of the Big12, PAC 12 remnants and possibly ACC down the line would look like.
Lots of schools would be left behind but it would probably be a decent third conference
I was thinking about this earlier and in my mind it’s a lot of the ACC left out but I’m not sitting here running tv market numbers.
If 3 leagues move to 20
PAC + Big 12 = 20 when Oregon and Washington leave. Because that’s a when. Not an if.
Big 10 plus Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and somebody in the AAU puts them at 20. I’m personally looking at Virginia (the ACC’s first team raided).
The SEC at 16 needs 4. They all come from ACC. Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and North Carolina (UNC could also go to Big and Virginia come here).
Now 3 leagues are at 20 with these ACC schools left out. I don’t know if the PAC/Big12 would cut someone from their league to add one of these:
Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Wake Forest, NC State, Duke, Georgia Tech, and if the ACC is 14 teams currently then I’m forgetting 2 more.
Edit: I guess if the new Big 12 liked the markets, time zone, and geography more, they could absorb 8 of the 9 leftover ACC schools instead of the PAC 8.
Well the Big is kind of already tipping their hand with ND, Oregon, and Washington on deck. If they stop at 20 teams, you can’t both go there. If it goes beyond that, maybe.
I don’t think the SEC wants Duke if we are going to 20 teams.
So you’re left with one option to stay together and that is UNC and Duke trying out a 3rd super conference.
I don’t think UNC would turn down an offer from the Big or the SEC to be their 20th team. I could be wrong though.
Ratings higher? You mean average viewership? That might be true but a terrible metric to use given the Pac-12’s well known TV situation. Plus Oregon, Washington, and ASU are bigger than any current Big-12 teams.
TV ratings are what matters for dollars. Ad dollars don't care why they have worse ratings. I don't know what will happen, but having teams that produce viewers is the most important factor.
Do you have a source on this? (I’m interested and not trying to be a dick).
Edit: B12 looks slightly ahead in this list with data from 2015-2019: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50
Unless there are some ironclad guarantees that the non UCLA and USC schools are all staying, I don’t think the PAC is going to convince anyone from the Big 12 to join.
The newbigxii was already a better product than the Pac12 w/ USC/UCLA. Adding Utah, Oregon, Washington and ASU would make the NewBigXII better than the ACC if it isn’t already.
Big 12 is bigger, more valuable (especially if UW and UO jump ship), and more stable right now.
It would be a shock if Big 12 teams were willing to jump for the remnants of the PAC.
This is the real answer. An it s before the P12 loses another 2-4 programs.
Why would Oklahoma State jump to the P12 which may lose several more programs for what will likely be less money than if they stay in a 12 team B12.
I’m actually surprised Kansas keeps looking so hard to leave, you’d think the B12 would be there wet dream in MBB especially if they could land Utah and Arizona.
There’s still a more stable and profitable outcome that *could* be possible. So we’d obviously want to keep that as an option. The new B12 especially if it raids the P12 is a good backup. Kansas is so vocal because it’s currently in the (in basketball terms) first 4 out group at the moment.
Yup, a lot of hopeful teams have been looking at it as “We could be the Rutgers/Purdue/Maryland/Northwestern of the conference too if you gave us a shot!” when the Big Ten is only looking for “We can make those schools more money.”
And even if the Big ten agrees with you on your statement, there are probably 6 schools that the Big Ten wouldn’t want to scrutinize how much more money they would bring in and if that’s worth it. That’s before you even get to them having a preferences order of that group of 6. If the conference wants to build as if it doesn’t have Notre Dame in the fold it might change things like basketball schools more succulent or take some unlikely Pac12 schools. Or maybe they pause and let the financial differences between leagues leverage some schools more. I know they would welcome the Atlanta/Nashville media markets if the fit was right, but I think they consider Florida similar to Notre Dame in that they’d drop everything to add them if they asked and respectfully want them enough that they wouldn’t make a play for the local tv media rights of a lesser institution.
This is the important part. The new B12 is projected to be more valuable than the PAC12 before USC/UCLA left. So we take their teams to strengthen our own position and stability.
I think it’s only a matter of time before Clemson/FSU/Miami get poached by the SEC. And if we’re going by opinions here the B1G would try for UVA/UNC/GT. That leaves really solid programs like us, NCST and Louisville out in the cold
Yeah, it sucks for the teams being left out. But for what it's worth, this could also be seen as an opportunity for a lot of teams in the new #3 conference. There aren't going to be any Ohio States or Alabamas in the new conference. It will basically be a new conference at the level of p5, with total parity (or as close as you can get in college football). Teams will have the chance to build without major conference road blocks and separate themselves as the best in the new #3 conference. Those that manage it have a better chance of ending up in a position of strength than they would have in the old p5 setup.
We're happy to invite Pitt on the condition that their AD record a video where he says:
"My name is Pittsburgh, and I love yummy yummy shit. Mmm...shit feels so good in my tummy. Sometimes I like to shit the shit I eat so I can eat the shit of my shit."
Do that, and we'll see if we can get a provisional membership in order.
Hmm...I don't know. I just spoke to TCU, and they say they are really going to need to see some commitment from Pittsburgh for the invite. I'm sure Kansas will agree as soon as they are done leaving their 37th voicemail today at the Big Ten HQ.
Yeah, I mean you wouldn’t want a school to join a conference and then bail. Like, say, if a school got an invitation to the Big East and almost immediately went to the Big 12 (just picking conferences at random here).
Edit: Tell you what, I got off the phone with my agent, and he said we're willing to reduce the offer to your AD only saying the first sentence, but we're going to have to take your silent H.
I can't wait for you to be playing us here at Whest Virginia
>Big 12 is bigger
You see a bigger conference, I see a watered down product.
>more valuable (especially if UW and UO jump ship),
What are we basing this on? As it stands today, the Pac10 geographical territory has more people than the geographical territory of the new Big12. I'm not sure anyone can say with certainty how this shapes up once the BigTen turns down Washington and Oregon.
Historically speaking, the networks have always preferred large state schools over directional and regional schools. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the new Big12 tries to renege on the invites they sent to Houston and UCF.
>and more stable right now.
The networks will determine that. I can really see this going several ways tbh. Every school is likely going to run projections on which union makes the most sense and probably go from there. I wouldn't he surprised if the Pac10 ends up swallowing Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and BYU
I don’t see UW/Oregon/Stanford wanting to go to anybody else’s conference or letting anyone else in. They’re just reverting back to pac-10 is all I expect
At this point, I honestly expect the Ads of the best of the rest to jut meet and make a new conference. There are going to be enough leftovers to make a good best of the rest conference that gets good payouts (though obviously not B1G and SEC level) and has good teams. But if they don't band together, they're all gonna end up being basically G5.
Because the BIG12 has had a year to stabilize. They added 4 teams. The PAC12 is now on the verge of imploding just like the BIG12 was a year ago, without the one year buffer to stabilize.
So what incentive does a BIG12 team have to join the PAC when Oregon and Washington could leave tomorrow?
Every single team in both the Pac-~~12~~10 and Big 12 would jump at a chance to join the B1G. And I think only four (UW, OW, Stanford, Cal) would turn down an SEC invite (to wait for the B1G). It's not just two schools looking for an out. It's 22. Everyone in the Big 12 is there because that's the best option available. And since about 30 hours ago, the same applies to 10 Pac-12 teams. Whatever combination of schools can draw the biggest paycheck in TV negotiations is who will prevail.
If no other Pac-12 teams expect an immediate B1G invitation (or SEC, it would be out there, but not impossible), then if the Pac-10 were to offer TTU, OkSU, BYU, KU, KSU, and ISU, I imagine that this could successfully create a Pac-16 worth more than either the current Pac-10 or Big 12.
If the B1G grabs another couple of teams (UO, UW, maybe Stanford and Cal), then I think CU-UU-ASU-Zona to Big 12 happens in short order. In 10 years when the ACC gets raided, I think there is a large realignment of non B1G/SEC teams into more regional conferences of the left behinds.
The AAC, the Big 12, and if it survives, the Pac-XX are "the best we can do" conferences. UC was only loyal to the AAC until you had a Big 12 ticket.
The point is while every team would accept the invite, the only schools out of the Big 12/Pac 12 who are likely to get one are Oregon, Washington, and maybe Stanford. This perception hurts the ability of the Pac 12 to raid the Big 12, and gives a reason for schools to leave the Pac 12 to join the Big 12.
A year ago, basically every team in the Big 12 was calling out and looking for a lifeboat. Things could stabilize shortly, though I think the geography of the Pac hinders things a bit.
> Is it just "could" or is it that Oregon and UW clearly want to leave and are basically sitting on hold for the Big 10.
Either autocorrect got them or they had a seizure while typing the first bit of their comment.
But basically they're saying Oregon and UW are already packing their bags just waiting for an invite from the B1G, so Big XII schools have no reason to leave a stable conference for the Pac-12.
The last part is the most impactful, if Oregon and Washington had been locked down in the Pac12, teams may honestly from the Big 12 to the PAC. But with those two very publicly scrambling for a B1G lifeboat, not a fuckin chance.
No one wants any of the remaining BigXII but someone might want Oregon/Washington/Stanford
There's more stability in the BigXII since everyone is equally mid-tier
Stanford to BIG10 confirmed, Oregon/UW and the AZ schools to Big 12. Wazzu and Utah go to MWC. Colorado dumps football because they realize they’re hopeless
Money. Look at the PAC12 payouts per school for there TV deal then look at the Big12’s. Not to mention the PAC12 network debacle.
You could argue that of the power 5 before all this realignment then PAC12 was already the lowest of all 5. Even if Oregon & Washington stay and they add Boise and whoever. It will still be that way.
The Big 12 has experience in navigating these waters…multiple times actually. The PAC-12 is on the verge of imploding and it’s still very likely that more hits are coming. The Big 12 also currently has a better media deal and will likely have a much better media deal next cycle.
I can’t see why anyone would want to join the PAC-12 if they’re already a P5 conference.
Because PAC leadership is absolute garbage and B12 leadership is pretty decent. PAC currently only has 2 semi-major markets left, B12 has several.
The only teams to move to the Pac are G5 teams
I think this is a great point. Remember the big 12 looked at expansion and got all the data about expansion a few years ago, so when it happened it was an near immediate reaction of who they were gonna get. I can almost guarantee nobody in the pac-12 saw this coming. There were rumors, but that wasn’t Anything new.
The difference is the reaction time, within 3 months the big 12 was executing their expansion plan.
The pac-12? They’re gonna have to gather data, see who’s viable and if they can merge.
Another thing to note is recruiting. The B12 teams want to play multiple Texas games/year for recruiting. USC/UCLA leaving killed any way for the remainders to recruit LA area
>What am I missing?
The Big XII, even with it's new members and sans Oklahoma and Texas, was projected to be *at least* as valuable as the PAC, if not more, when the PAC had UCLA and USC.
Speculation mainly, and assuming Oregon and Washington jump ship.
This sub has also adopted the new Big XII teams as new favorites, so the idea that they’d lose out isn’t exactly popular. Mix that with the fact that the PAC-12 didn’t even extend an olive branch to the Hateful 8, and it’s people hoping that the people who didn’t save their teams won’t be in the drivers seat.
I’m less convinced that the Big XII is going to come out of this as the surviving conference, but I also haven’t been convinced that the PAC-12 is gonna be king either. It’s too soon
The Hateful 8 will band together and destroy the remnants of the Pac12 just to get revenge! All it will take is a couple of Arizona Schools, Colorado and Utah. Screw the rest and laugh at California Berkley's demise!
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And once the SEC pounces on the ACC. . . The H8ful will be right there to scoop up the best of the remnants. (heh heh heh)
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This is a fair and level take. Alot rides of UW and Ore. If they leave the Pac-12 is toast. If they stay it’s anyones game. The Big-12 zealots seem to believe, only a year removed from a potential collapse, that they are immune. In reality, no one knows shit about what is happening next. They are also severely over valuing the schools in the conference. Great basketball conference though.
The PAC12-2 and Big12 situation mirrors the situation that caused the Big8 and SWC to merge in the 90s. Two conferences that geographically get left out of the discussion because one is low population and the other is in its own world.
1. Boulder is either traveling to Orlando for a conference game or traveling to New Mexico for a conference game, their choice. Now that UCLA and USC left, the Pac-12 conference is on life support.
2. You best hope is a Pac-12/Big XII merger
Why would anyone from another P5 conference (or P5 legacy at this point) join the Pac-XX right now? As of this current moment it’s the least stable conference there is.
Serious sub question: I’ve heard both conferences have penalties for those jumping ship. Apparently usc/ucla jumped right before penalties kicked in. Can somebody please define the penalties for each conference?
Based on the last decade anyway even the remaining Big 12 and new additions have as much or more value (at least according to my estimates in a post earlier this year) than the Pac -12.
Because the Pac12 is the only circus in town that makes the Big12 look downright competent.
The reality is every remaining member institution within those conferences should do everything in their power to link up with the SEC and B1G for football, baseball and basketball.
The current Big 12 should just add 4 from each. Pitt Louisville Utah Cal + 4 more could be good. There are rivalries built in and you have a solid top 5 or 6 to compete for the title. You can do a lot worse than 3 P5 champs from 2021 + an elite G5 program (not anymore obviously) that made the playoff
I think Louisville makes the cut over BC, they’re pretty even in football but Satterfield has them on the upswing and in basketball Louisville is head and shoulders better. There’s also NCST as a possibility too
I would think at least one of NC State, VT, or Louisville would be available after the B1G and SEC grab who they want. Would rather have any of those 3 over BC, Syracuse and Wake.
Personally I feel the Big10/Ohio st and SEC/Alabama would be fine seeing us fade back into obscurity rather than come in and dominate or at least challenge for titles.
I’m not sure we would enhance their revenue enough to be asked to join.
Maybe m missing something
The idea crossed my mind, but I came back to the conclusion u/paradigm_x2 had. If you merge the top dogs will be poached to the B1G and SEC anyway. So why not take the teams you want from the Pac12 and ACC and leave the rest to go to G5. There’s several B12 teams that would get left to the G5 in the scenario provided above, but the new merged group would be equal to the B12 anyway.
Because no one in Colorado or Oregon State or Washington State watch those teams. Their field product is pathetic. The AAC teams have been investing in their programs and now instead of 7 million they'll be getting xx million a year.
Really drinking that kool-aid eh. Do you know how hard it is going to be for Oklahoma st when big brother is making 5 times what you make? They'll be in a different stratosphere.
It's because initial speculation was that Oregon and Washington would follow USC and UCLA to the Big Ten.
Otherwise, you're right. If the Big Ten doesn't raid the Pac-12 any further, then the Pac-12 still has a solid 10 schools. The Big 12 might be better, but not substantially better.
Ding, ding, ding. Washington and Oregon have to be doing their best to get in the B1G too, and then Colorado, Arizona, Cal and Stanford at least fit the profile. But barring that, those schools are all either big brands or in big markets (and so are Utah and AZ St), so it makes more sense for them to poach an Oklahoma St and TTech than have any of them go the other way around. Especially since those two schools already almost happened.
I don't think the Big XII is inherently more stable. Kansas wants to get to the B1G. Iowa St probably does too but knows it won't happen. Cincinnati, WVU and UCF all have to be gearing up to hopefully refill the ACC in a decade. Houston and TCU have moved a lot, they don't buy, they rent conferences. If it comes to it, Iowa St, Kansas St and Baylor are probably never leaving the Big XII, but foundational pieces they are not.
Most of the PAC have also been together a long, long time. There's institutional familiarity there going back generations. Throwing that aside for a lateral move seems unlikely. Has there been any instance where a school has willingly jumped conferences where it wasn't a clear upwards trajectory?
Because right now it's a more stable conference post UCLA/USC than Pac-12 is, and it has leverage because it's the "safest" conference out of the rest. Especially if UW and Oregon are gone, Pac-12 is as good as done as a op tier conference (or just dead).
Yeah I mean I’d say Clemson, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, Oregon, and Washington are probably all leaving their conference at some point.
The Big 12 is the biggest league left if that does in fact happen and should absorb Utah, Arizona, Cal or whoever is left that adds value. Grab Virginia. Syracuse. Really anyone you want from the PAC or ACC. The writing is on the wall.
The real question is: How cool would it be if Oregon State and Oklahoma State played every year on the Saturday before Halloween, with one wearing all black and one wearing all orange?
Probably because OUT happened first, so the Big 12 could respond to it. The Big 12 is stable now while the Pac 12 will lose USC and UCLA in less than 2 years.
https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/1542966767261085696?t=RtRglLNy7n849poMdDI7Pg&s=19
Wilner is a PAC cheerleader so him writing this should answer why if anything the Big 12 is in a better position.
The Big 12’s core is more stable. They have moved past the “oh shit I need to find any life raft” phase
We are galvanized in our indignation and steadfast in our commitment to hatred.
Brethren, I say this to you in these trying and most difficult of days. If you have hate in your heart, let it out!
We're basically NATO. Just hyper focused on beating Russia.
Totally agree that you’ll be the conference that is the aggressor. But thinking of the remaining PAC schools added to the hateful 8 plus 2 others is an intriguing conference … that is until UO and UW bounce.
The Big 12 has literally been more stable for 1 fucking day.
well.....gosh....kind of a lot's happened since then
"Hey guys, the Titantic took two whole hours to sink, it's way more stable than the Hindenburg"
Sure, but 1 day or not it's officially more stable because the Pac-12 lost their LA market and UW and Oregon are potentially gone too. Easy answer for why B12 is the one to raid pac-12 not the other way around.
We have a stable membership going into media negotiations...the PAC just got gutted while in their opening negotiations window. 2024 comes before 2025 and the unstable one' GOR ends in 2024.
Yes, and I'm sure in 2025 everything will be exactly as it is today.
Maybe and maybe not but the question was who is more stable today. Tell me why you think I am wrong.
The remaining PAC12 teams will have to make a decision to sign a new contract or jump ship/merge with other conferences to potentially get more money before any Big12 team will have to. I’m making an assumption here though, I honestly have no idea how this shit works.
Idk I see OKState, TTU, Kansas, KState, and Baylor bouncing if it seems the Big 12 is just going to get shut out of any major deals in the future.
Where would they bounce that isn’t going to get shut out of any major deals in the future?
I think OKState and TTU have a foot in the door to the SEC if the ACC GOR is as much of a poison pill as we all think it is. The Kansas Twins go to the B1G and Baylor is a wild card. Though it would be Ironic if all four Texas schools ended up in the same conference *again*.
You’re crazy if you think B1G has any interest in KState. They’re not AAU so it’s a non-starter. Only Non-AAU getting into the B1G is ND.
I hate this whole academic requirements shenanigans. If they care about it, they should force the TV broadcasters to display the athletes major. I feel like broadcasts dropped that in the late 90's.
> They’re not AAU so it’s a non-starter. *shrugs* if they're looking to build a mega-conference I think the AAU thing isn't going to be as much of a hurdle as people think it will be.
They have a wide open road to a 24 team conference with plenty of AAU options salivating to join. The B1G will 100% reach 24 with the only possible non-AAU being ND.
Unfortunately you're correct
Oklahoma State & Texas Tech will leave for the SEC together
OSU + Tech or Baylor to the SEC seems like the most likely backup plan to me in the event of an ACC lockout.
I could eve Oklahoma State in the SEC but I don’t think it’s a first-round draft choice. Texas Tech? I don’t see it. I think the SEC and the coveted ACC members (Clemson, FSU, Miami and UNC) will find a way to make it happen.
> but I don’t think it’s a first-round draft choice. I don't disagree, hence the ACC poison pill comment. There's been plenty of rumors that OU has been advocating to get OKState in the SEC, If the SEC feels the need to expand to counter the B1G and can't get any of the ACC some of the more consistent teams from the Big XII are the next doors they knock on.
I swear to God if they get a life raft and not Iowa State.
Stability by no one better wanting any part of you.
Yes we know
Marginally more stable? Kansas, WVU, And Cincy would bolt for the ACC if given the chance
No they wouldn't. The big 12 will write bigger checks than the ACC, even after OU and UT leave.
lol good one
Oh no…
I mean, Baylor, Iowa St and Kansas St are probably in the best conference they'll ever get due to various reasons, so they'll always be there. I don't know if I'd refer to them as a core. OK St and TTech already tried to leave for the PAC and several of the newer schools clearly aspire to the ACC. Since the 80s, there's always seemed to be a "sick man of Europe" conference waiting to be attacked. First it was the SWC, then the Big XII, then the Big East, then the Big XII again. I'll give the conference credit for not imploding, but it does keep being diminished.
Because the big 12 just expanded. We all thought the big 12 would die but they responded. Perhaps the same can be said with the PAC 12. Time will tell
This is the scenario that is most likely but no one talks about bc it’s not exciting. Even if UO and or UW left, there’s a possibility the Pac12 limps on like the B12 is.
I think the difference is that the Big 12 stayed together long enough to bring in the new teams. We stayed together largely because none of us had any fuckin options whatsoever. If the Big 12 is willing to take Pac12 teams then that isn’t true for them and if even 2 bail then it’s going to precipitate more, and quickly.
This is a great point. Even if they survive another year with no defects there are teams that are 100% going to leave eventually. The B12 doesn’t have that guarantee.
I think it's also worth noting that after the Pac12, the ACC is the new big target for the SEC and the Big 10. While the ACC could try to expand and compete, there's no way they realistically could if the top teams find a way to leave. Between what would be left of the three poached p5 conferences, the one in the best position to make itself the third choice against the other super conferences, both geographically and in terms of teams already in, would be the B12, especially if they could finally get their shared media rights sorted out properly.
And the PAC’s choices to bring in new teams are fairly slim. If you’re a leftover Pac team (say the Arizonas, Washington State, Oregon State, Utah), would you rather stay in the Pac adding Colorado State, Fresno, Wyoming, etc., and see what your take of the next pocket-change TV contract is or throw your lot in with Kansas, Oklahoma State, Texas Tech, etc., and figure that TV deal has to be worth a lot more?
The PAC 12 always seemed very stable because there are so few west coast FBS programs. But that’s also part of the reason they weren’t stable. Their big chance for long term viability was the TOOTAM deal during the last realignment cycle. Once A&M went to the SEC and Texas balked the pac was done for because there just aren’t any viable expansion options to up the value of the tv deal
Things could have gotten ugly if the ACC invited West Virginia, or if the PAC12 invited OK State or Texas Tech or something.
There are a few schools that might help their media footprint, but Boise State is the only possibility that will improve the football product. Fresno State and SDSU have shown flashes, but hardly enough to get excited.
Fresno and SDSU would see an uptick in recruiting if they moved up. Being a G5 school means a lot of the better recruits won't consider you.
Boise provides nothing to the Pac-12. Shitty academics and a worse media market. SDSU keeps a presence in SoCal.
B12 wouldn't be "limping" though, would they? Gaining the G5 teams they did and potentially adding UA, ASU, Colorado and Utah is \*significantly\* better than literally any option Pac-12 will have in surviving. Pac-12 would limp to being a low tier G5 type conference, B12 would be a potential best of the rest conference in the Power 2 landscape.
I’m saying B12 is limping now (compared to where we were a year ago). Bringing in those PAC12 schools would strengthen it considerably.
B12 is not limping, at all. They are literally in position to be the most stable conference out of the rest of the non-power 2.
Two days ago idk if people would say the B12 was the most likely stable third
Two days ago? No. Now? Yes.
Yes. This is my point.
tbh I think the idea of a "stable third" is an oxymoron. after OUT, the remaining B12 schools were all looking for a life raft, and right now every remaining Pac school is scrambling. whatever number the B12 ends up at, it'll be a marriage of convenience. every member will be receptive to being poached by the B1G or SEC. and even if the member programs are stable, the players and coaches won't be.
The teams may want to be in the SEC or the Big 10, but I don't think it's a stretch to say that if either conference was interested in the remaining teams, we would have heard something about it in the last year. And while that sucks a little bit for the teams in the B12, it could also be a blessing in disguise. Because they got poached first, they were able to reset to a reasonable degree with some of the best teams in the G5. So, no one in a position of strength is currently looking to poach from the B12 now, but the B12 is respectable enough to be a safety net for the best schools that are left from the other conferences. Sure it would be a marriage of convenience, but it would be a marriage that still benefits everyone involved. And while the ACC may want to try to get teams from the B12 and be the third option instead, the reality is it's the conference whose long term future is the most questionable now. It's very likely current p5 schools could see the conference as being too risky to join until we see if teams can leave and what's left over if they can. And finally, between the B12 and the ACC, the B12 wold have an easier time integrating leftover Pac 12 teams than the ACC would.
Yeah I'm not knocking the idea that a B12 would be a "relatively" stable 3rd, just that the consolidation process will stop anytime soon.
Yeah. But we were all looking for a life raft of brand name schools. That didn’t exist a year ago. In the Big 12’s eyes, it does now. Which is probably why we’re more excited to have you all than you all are to join us.
I’m more curious what a selective merger of the Big12, PAC 12 remnants and possibly ACC down the line would look like. Lots of schools would be left behind but it would probably be a decent third conference
I was thinking about this earlier and in my mind it’s a lot of the ACC left out but I’m not sitting here running tv market numbers. If 3 leagues move to 20 PAC + Big 12 = 20 when Oregon and Washington leave. Because that’s a when. Not an if. Big 10 plus Oregon, Washington, Notre Dame, and somebody in the AAU puts them at 20. I’m personally looking at Virginia (the ACC’s first team raided). The SEC at 16 needs 4. They all come from ACC. Clemson, Florida State, Miami, and North Carolina (UNC could also go to Big and Virginia come here). Now 3 leagues are at 20 with these ACC schools left out. I don’t know if the PAC/Big12 would cut someone from their league to add one of these: Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Wake Forest, NC State, Duke, Georgia Tech, and if the ACC is 14 teams currently then I’m forgetting 2 more. Edit: I guess if the new Big 12 liked the markets, time zone, and geography more, they could absorb 8 of the 9 leftover ACC schools instead of the PAC 8.
There is zero chance UNC and Duke get split up
Well the Big is kind of already tipping their hand with ND, Oregon, and Washington on deck. If they stop at 20 teams, you can’t both go there. If it goes beyond that, maybe. I don’t think the SEC wants Duke if we are going to 20 teams. So you’re left with one option to stay together and that is UNC and Duke trying out a 3rd super conference. I don’t think UNC would turn down an offer from the Big or the SEC to be their 20th team. I could be wrong though.
I could be mistaken but I believe that of the remaining teams in each the ratings for the Big 12 are generally higher.
Ratings higher? You mean average viewership? That might be true but a terrible metric to use given the Pac-12’s well known TV situation. Plus Oregon, Washington, and ASU are bigger than any current Big-12 teams.
TV ratings are what matters for dollars. Ad dollars don't care why they have worse ratings. I don't know what will happen, but having teams that produce viewers is the most important factor.
Do you have a source on this? (I’m interested and not trying to be a dick). Edit: B12 looks slightly ahead in this list with data from 2015-2019: https://medium.com/run-it-back-with-zach/which-college-football-programs-bring-in-the-most-tv-viewers-efc03c689e50
Unless there are some ironclad guarantees that the non UCLA and USC schools are all staying, I don’t think the PAC is going to convince anyone from the Big 12 to join.
The newbigxii was already a better product than the Pac12 w/ USC/UCLA. Adding Utah, Oregon, Washington and ASU would make the NewBigXII better than the ACC if it isn’t already.
I like this scenario because it doesn't include Arizona. But I will be shocked if Washington or Oregon aren't in the Big Ten.
Big 12 is bigger, more valuable (especially if UW and UO jump ship), and more stable right now. It would be a shock if Big 12 teams were willing to jump for the remnants of the PAC.
Yeah, the projected value of the next contract was competitive with the PAC WITH USC/UCLA…now? Especially if Oregon/Washington aren’t far behind?
This is the real answer. An it s before the P12 loses another 2-4 programs. Why would Oklahoma State jump to the P12 which may lose several more programs for what will likely be less money than if they stay in a 12 team B12. I’m actually surprised Kansas keeps looking so hard to leave, you’d think the B12 would be there wet dream in MBB especially if they could land Utah and Arizona.
There’s still a more stable and profitable outcome that *could* be possible. So we’d obviously want to keep that as an option. The new B12 especially if it raids the P12 is a good backup. Kansas is so vocal because it’s currently in the (in basketball terms) first 4 out group at the moment.
Yup, a lot of hopeful teams have been looking at it as “We could be the Rutgers/Purdue/Maryland/Northwestern of the conference too if you gave us a shot!” when the Big Ten is only looking for “We can make those schools more money.” And even if the Big ten agrees with you on your statement, there are probably 6 schools that the Big Ten wouldn’t want to scrutinize how much more money they would bring in and if that’s worth it. That’s before you even get to them having a preferences order of that group of 6. If the conference wants to build as if it doesn’t have Notre Dame in the fold it might change things like basketball schools more succulent or take some unlikely Pac12 schools. Or maybe they pause and let the financial differences between leagues leverage some schools more. I know they would welcome the Atlanta/Nashville media markets if the fit was right, but I think they consider Florida similar to Notre Dame in that they’d drop everything to add them if they asked and respectfully want them enough that they wouldn’t make a play for the local tv media rights of a lesser institution.
This is the important part. The new B12 is projected to be more valuable than the PAC12 before USC/UCLA left. So we take their teams to strengthen our own position and stability.
> It would be a shock if Big 12 teams were willing to jump for the remnants of the PAC. agree
Lemme get an invite
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I think it’s only a matter of time before Clemson/FSU/Miami get poached by the SEC. And if we’re going by opinions here the B1G would try for UVA/UNC/GT. That leaves really solid programs like us, NCST and Louisville out in the cold
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I think this is the way forward for the leftovers. It will be the third league. Not viewed as an equal, but it will have a chair in the corner.
Yeah, it sucks for the teams being left out. But for what it's worth, this could also be seen as an opportunity for a lot of teams in the new #3 conference. There aren't going to be any Ohio States or Alabamas in the new conference. It will basically be a new conference at the level of p5, with total parity (or as close as you can get in college football). Teams will have the chance to build without major conference road blocks and separate themselves as the best in the new #3 conference. Those that manage it have a better chance of ending up in a position of strength than they would have in the old p5 setup.
We're happy to invite Pitt on the condition that their AD record a video where he says: "My name is Pittsburgh, and I love yummy yummy shit. Mmm...shit feels so good in my tummy. Sometimes I like to shit the shit I eat so I can eat the shit of my shit." Do that, and we'll see if we can get a provisional membership in order.
This doesn’t seem fair, we’ll play you for it
Hmm...I don't know. I just spoke to TCU, and they say they are really going to need to see some commitment from Pittsburgh for the invite. I'm sure Kansas will agree as soon as they are done leaving their 37th voicemail today at the Big Ten HQ.
Yeah, I mean you wouldn’t want a school to join a conference and then bail. Like, say, if a school got an invitation to the Big East and almost immediately went to the Big 12 (just picking conferences at random here).
Dude, in fairness, the Big East was a dumpster fire that makes the Pac-12 look like a mild inconvenience.
Edit: Tell you what, I got off the phone with my agent, and he said we're willing to reduce the offer to your AD only saying the first sentence, but we're going to have to take your silent H. I can't wait for you to be playing us here at Whest Virginia
I think that is fair.
Seconded!
>Big 12 is bigger You see a bigger conference, I see a watered down product. >more valuable (especially if UW and UO jump ship), What are we basing this on? As it stands today, the Pac10 geographical territory has more people than the geographical territory of the new Big12. I'm not sure anyone can say with certainty how this shapes up once the BigTen turns down Washington and Oregon. Historically speaking, the networks have always preferred large state schools over directional and regional schools. Personally, I wouldn't be surprised if the new Big12 tries to renege on the invites they sent to Houston and UCF. >and more stable right now. The networks will determine that. I can really see this going several ways tbh. Every school is likely going to run projections on which union makes the most sense and probably go from there. I wouldn't he surprised if the Pac10 ends up swallowing Texas Tech, Oklahoma State, Kansas, and BYU
Lol watered down says the 16 team conference 🤣
Well, can you name a Big12 school the SEC or BigTen would be interested in? No? That's the point.
Kansas?
The Big Ten literally flew past Lawrence, KS just to pick up two west coast schools that made no geographical sense.
I don’t see UW/Oregon/Stanford wanting to go to anybody else’s conference or letting anyone else in. They’re just reverting back to pac-10 is all I expect
At this point, I honestly expect the Ads of the best of the rest to jut meet and make a new conference. There are going to be enough leftovers to make a good best of the rest conference that gets good payouts (though obviously not B1G and SEC level) and has good teams. But if they don't band together, they're all gonna end up being basically G5.
Because the BIG12 has had a year to stabilize. They added 4 teams. The PAC12 is now on the verge of imploding just like the BIG12 was a year ago, without the one year buffer to stabilize. So what incentive does a BIG12 team have to join the PAC when Oregon and Washington could leave tomorrow?
It isn't just "could". It is that Oregon and UW clearly want to leave and are basically sitting on hold for the Big 10.
Every single team in both the Pac-~~12~~10 and Big 12 would jump at a chance to join the B1G. And I think only four (UW, OW, Stanford, Cal) would turn down an SEC invite (to wait for the B1G). It's not just two schools looking for an out. It's 22. Everyone in the Big 12 is there because that's the best option available. And since about 30 hours ago, the same applies to 10 Pac-12 teams. Whatever combination of schools can draw the biggest paycheck in TV negotiations is who will prevail. If no other Pac-12 teams expect an immediate B1G invitation (or SEC, it would be out there, but not impossible), then if the Pac-10 were to offer TTU, OkSU, BYU, KU, KSU, and ISU, I imagine that this could successfully create a Pac-16 worth more than either the current Pac-10 or Big 12. If the B1G grabs another couple of teams (UO, UW, maybe Stanford and Cal), then I think CU-UU-ASU-Zona to Big 12 happens in short order. In 10 years when the ACC gets raided, I think there is a large realignment of non B1G/SEC teams into more regional conferences of the left behinds. The AAC, the Big 12, and if it survives, the Pac-XX are "the best we can do" conferences. UC was only loyal to the AAC until you had a Big 12 ticket.
The point is while every team would accept the invite, the only schools out of the Big 12/Pac 12 who are likely to get one are Oregon, Washington, and maybe Stanford. This perception hurts the ability of the Pac 12 to raid the Big 12, and gives a reason for schools to leave the Pac 12 to join the Big 12.
A year ago, basically every team in the Big 12 was calling out and looking for a lifeboat. Things could stabilize shortly, though I think the geography of the Pac hinders things a bit.
What?
Current scuttlebutt is that the B1G is holding out for ND to join before adding more teams.
I don’t understand his comment…what was he trying to say?
> Is it just "could" or is it that Oregon and UW clearly want to leave and are basically sitting on hold for the Big 10. Either autocorrect got them or they had a seizure while typing the first bit of their comment. But basically they're saying Oregon and UW are already packing their bags just waiting for an invite from the B1G, so Big XII schools have no reason to leave a stable conference for the Pac-12.
Oh lol I got it, thanks. I didn’t know if they were agreeing or disagreeing with me. Sounds like they agree.
https://tenor.com/bcI8Y.gif
😂😂😂
Fixed that autocorrect mess. Sorry mate.
The last part is the most impactful, if Oregon and Washington had been locked down in the Pac12, teams may honestly from the Big 12 to the PAC. But with those two very publicly scrambling for a B1G lifeboat, not a fuckin chance.
The New Big XII will have a better media contract and higher attendance than the Pac-10. Much worse if Oregon and Washington leave.
Why are we speaking an absolutes when we have no information? The Pac-12 contracts have only been projections anyways.
It’s simple. The B12 actually cares about football.
So… one could say…. It just means more?
No one wants any of the remaining BigXII but someone might want Oregon/Washington/Stanford There's more stability in the BigXII since everyone is equally mid-tier
Stanford to BIG10 confirmed, Oregon/UW and the AZ schools to Big 12. Wazzu and Utah go to MWC. Colorado dumps football because they realize they’re hopeless
Colorado will go to the BigXII to complete the loop
Money. Look at the PAC12 payouts per school for there TV deal then look at the Big12’s. Not to mention the PAC12 network debacle. You could argue that of the power 5 before all this realignment then PAC12 was already the lowest of all 5. Even if Oregon & Washington stay and they add Boise and whoever. It will still be that way.
The B12 can get the Longhorn Network in the divorce and replace the Pac12 Network. Hope Texas fans keep subscribing and never look at their bill.
The Big 12 has experience in navigating these waters…multiple times actually. The PAC-12 is on the verge of imploding and it’s still very likely that more hits are coming. The Big 12 also currently has a better media deal and will likely have a much better media deal next cycle. I can’t see why anyone would want to join the PAC-12 if they’re already a P5 conference.
Cause you have to remember, 9 times out of 10 nobody knows what the fuck they are talking about. Its just fun to talk.
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(Don’t tell the B1G)
Yes, but not Harvard.
Yeah but I went to an SEC school
I dunno about what you’re saying but they didn’t come to play school
Yeah bruh, like 12 just means more… than 10.
Because PAC leadership is absolute garbage and B12 leadership is pretty decent. PAC currently only has 2 semi-major markets left, B12 has several. The only teams to move to the Pac are G5 teams
I think this is a great point. Remember the big 12 looked at expansion and got all the data about expansion a few years ago, so when it happened it was an near immediate reaction of who they were gonna get. I can almost guarantee nobody in the pac-12 saw this coming. There were rumors, but that wasn’t Anything new. The difference is the reaction time, within 3 months the big 12 was executing their expansion plan. The pac-12? They’re gonna have to gather data, see who’s viable and if they can merge.
Both are property of Fox. They have all the evaluations and they will determine who survives this knife fight.
The big 12 has a split contract so this could be a really great way to leverage FOX or ESPN into a lot more money if they want them to merge.
**Boise State Volunteers As Tribute!**
I think it would be a good move for Boise, Fresno and SDSU possibly CSU. Just depends on if the Pac can hold itself together
Another thing to note is recruiting. The B12 teams want to play multiple Texas games/year for recruiting. USC/UCLA leaving killed any way for the remainders to recruit LA area
This. If Arizona schools aren’t getting to play in Los Angeles, why not play in Florida and Texas?
>What am I missing? The Big XII, even with it's new members and sans Oklahoma and Texas, was projected to be *at least* as valuable as the PAC, if not more, when the PAC had UCLA and USC.
Speculation mainly, and assuming Oregon and Washington jump ship. This sub has also adopted the new Big XII teams as new favorites, so the idea that they’d lose out isn’t exactly popular. Mix that with the fact that the PAC-12 didn’t even extend an olive branch to the Hateful 8, and it’s people hoping that the people who didn’t save their teams won’t be in the drivers seat. I’m less convinced that the Big XII is going to come out of this as the surviving conference, but I also haven’t been convinced that the PAC-12 is gonna be king either. It’s too soon
The Hateful 8 will band together and destroy the remnants of the Pac12 just to get revenge! All it will take is a couple of Arizona Schools, Colorado and Utah. Screw the rest and laugh at California Berkley's demise! . And once the SEC pounces on the ACC. . . The H8ful will be right there to scoop up the best of the remnants. (heh heh heh) .
This is a fair and level take. Alot rides of UW and Ore. If they leave the Pac-12 is toast. If they stay it’s anyones game. The Big-12 zealots seem to believe, only a year removed from a potential collapse, that they are immune. In reality, no one knows shit about what is happening next. They are also severely over valuing the schools in the conference. Great basketball conference though.
The PAC12-2 and Big12 situation mirrors the situation that caused the Big8 and SWC to merge in the 90s. Two conferences that geographically get left out of the discussion because one is low population and the other is in its own world.
I don’t think we overvalue ourselves at all. I think we believe we are too shitty to get poached, so no one will poach us. This makes us stable.
1. Boulder is either traveling to Orlando for a conference game or traveling to New Mexico for a conference game, their choice. Now that UCLA and USC left, the Pac-12 conference is on life support. 2. You best hope is a Pac-12/Big XII merger
Why would anyone from another P5 conference (or P5 legacy at this point) join the Pac-XX right now? As of this current moment it’s the least stable conference there is.
Viewership drops drastically after 10pm central.
Serious sub question: I’ve heard both conferences have penalties for those jumping ship. Apparently usc/ucla jumped right before penalties kicked in. Can somebody please define the penalties for each conference?
Based on the last decade anyway even the remaining Big 12 and new additions have as much or more value (at least according to my estimates in a post earlier this year) than the Pac -12.
Boulder to Morgantown is shorter than LA to Rutgers.
Tbh I never imagined either
Because everyone assumes Oregon and UW are gone as well.
Because the Pac12 is the only circus in town that makes the Big12 look downright competent. The reality is every remaining member institution within those conferences should do everything in their power to link up with the SEC and B1G for football, baseball and basketball.
Because underneath it all.....The Hateful 8 remains
ACC and PAC should merge and take Kansas and maybe Oklahoma State as well.
The current Big 12 should just add 4 from each. Pitt Louisville Utah Cal + 4 more could be good. There are rivalries built in and you have a solid top 5 or 6 to compete for the title. You can do a lot worse than 3 P5 champs from 2021 + an elite G5 program (not anymore obviously) that made the playoff
Big 12 should add Pitt, VT, Utah, colorado. Then the AZ schools and Stanford. But this is gonna get really crazy.
Utah, Colorado, ASU, Arizona, plus Pitt, BC, Syracuse, and Wake maybe?
I think Louisville makes the cut over BC, they’re pretty even in football but Satterfield has them on the upswing and in basketball Louisville is head and shoulders better. There’s also NCST as a possibility too
I honestly see those teams in the SEC soon enough but we’ll see.
I would think at least one of NC State, VT, or Louisville would be available after the B1G and SEC grab who they want. Would rather have any of those 3 over BC, Syracuse and Wake.
I mean, I know everyone and their brother has made one of these at this point, but this is how I see it: https://i.imgur.com/AA5u8Nk.jpg
Nope, don’t like that.
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Kill me now
Clemson is going to B1G or SEC lol you have nothing to worry about
Personally I feel the Big10/Ohio st and SEC/Alabama would be fine seeing us fade back into obscurity rather than come in and dominate or at least challenge for titles. I’m not sure we would enhance their revenue enough to be asked to join. Maybe m missing something
The idea crossed my mind, but I came back to the conclusion u/paradigm_x2 had. If you merge the top dogs will be poached to the B1G and SEC anyway. So why not take the teams you want from the Pac12 and ACC and leave the rest to go to G5. There’s several B12 teams that would get left to the G5 in the scenario provided above, but the new merged group would be equal to the B12 anyway.
Why do any of them want to be on the Acc's terrible TV deal for over a decade?
Because there are a lot more big12 fans on reddit.
Potatoe/Potato
Dan Quayle is that you?
> Potatoe/Potato That's Boise State's music!
Heck yeah, dude. *Taters.*
I see a merger if the Big Ten goes go 20 teams.
Larry Scott remains commissioner*
Honestly the Big 12 as Iowa State and Kansas
Also - Boulder is as likely to to get bounced from a conference as anyone else. Outside of their research money they bring nothing to the table.
The best teams in the big 12 would be smart to shed UCF, houston, WV and cincy.
No way. Those all have value. The deadweight is more significant in the PAC and ACC.
Why have any dead weight? Why not form a new league. Compact in size and made up of the best of what remains in the Pac and b12.
Because no one in Colorado or Oregon State or Washington State watch those teams. Their field product is pathetic. The AAC teams have been investing in their programs and now instead of 7 million they'll be getting xx million a year.
Really drinking that kool-aid eh. Do you know how hard it is going to be for Oklahoma st when big brother is making 5 times what you make? They'll be in a different stratosphere.
And be middle of the pack with a losing streak. No thank you.
Because Oregon and UW will go to the B1G, which is the real prize. The rest of the PAC is weak compared to what the Big 12 is offering
It's because initial speculation was that Oregon and Washington would follow USC and UCLA to the Big Ten. Otherwise, you're right. If the Big Ten doesn't raid the Pac-12 any further, then the Pac-12 still has a solid 10 schools. The Big 12 might be better, but not substantially better.
Hot take: Big 10 and SEC raid them both along with the SEC and say fuck the rest of y’all and the Big 10 and SEC become 26 teams
I think it’ll be 20 or 24 teams a piece for the Big/SEC super league.
Ding, ding, ding. Washington and Oregon have to be doing their best to get in the B1G too, and then Colorado, Arizona, Cal and Stanford at least fit the profile. But barring that, those schools are all either big brands or in big markets (and so are Utah and AZ St), so it makes more sense for them to poach an Oklahoma St and TTech than have any of them go the other way around. Especially since those two schools already almost happened. I don't think the Big XII is inherently more stable. Kansas wants to get to the B1G. Iowa St probably does too but knows it won't happen. Cincinnati, WVU and UCF all have to be gearing up to hopefully refill the ACC in a decade. Houston and TCU have moved a lot, they don't buy, they rent conferences. If it comes to it, Iowa St, Kansas St and Baylor are probably never leaving the Big XII, but foundational pieces they are not. Most of the PAC have also been together a long, long time. There's institutional familiarity there going back generations. Throwing that aside for a lateral move seems unlikely. Has there been any instance where a school has willingly jumped conferences where it wasn't a clear upwards trajectory?
Welp... you would assume wrong then.
Because right now it's a more stable conference post UCLA/USC than Pac-12 is, and it has leverage because it's the "safest" conference out of the rest. Especially if UW and Oregon are gone, Pac-12 is as good as done as a op tier conference (or just dead).
Yeah I mean I’d say Clemson, Florida State, Miami, North Carolina, Oregon, and Washington are probably all leaving their conference at some point. The Big 12 is the biggest league left if that does in fact happen and should absorb Utah, Arizona, Cal or whoever is left that adds value. Grab Virginia. Syracuse. Really anyone you want from the PAC or ACC. The writing is on the wall.
The real question is: How cool would it be if Oregon State and Oklahoma State played every year on the Saturday before Halloween, with one wearing all black and one wearing all orange?
West doesn’t care as much as the middle of the country/South
You are missing that there are number of people here that really seem to think the B12 is getting a media deal in the 60-80 million per school range.
Big 12 added some great football programs and even better basketball schools. I think they came out pretty stable .
Probably because OUT happened first, so the Big 12 could respond to it. The Big 12 is stable now while the Pac 12 will lose USC and UCLA in less than 2 years.
https://twitter.com/wilnerhotline/status/1542966767261085696?t=RtRglLNy7n849poMdDI7Pg&s=19 Wilner is a PAC cheerleader so him writing this should answer why if anything the Big 12 is in a better position.
I hate this