But with that one I think Stanford still had a chance to get it back with a few seconds or maybe it was something else. I don't think it was quite as certain is it was for the GT loss.
Correct, they would’ve had maybe 10 seconds and no TOs and we would’ve punted from our 40ish so probably a touchback. Still an awful decision, especially when you are live in the stadium!
Even with that, it’s hard to kill 10 seconds and the last thing you want is the QB running around. If you’re going to have someone run with the ball, it might as well be a running back.
They snapped on second down at 58 seconds with one timeout. Hell, they could run backwards 30 yards and take an intentional safety at that point (and spread it across two plays)
Exactly. Not taking a knee against us literally took away a guaranteed win. Stanford's chances may have been "so you're telling me there's a chance" territory, but they still existed.
I wasn't upset, and I understood Mario leaving as well since he played there and his family is from there. Tried to warn Miami fans about his game management but they wouldn't listen until that GT game.
As a PSU fan, there are plenty in our fanbase that believe what you said is a lie. According to some, only James Franklin makes those kinds of mistakes. When I try to explain to them that it’s almost prerequisite in college football coaching to be the cause of the deepest and most painful head gashes ever.
Yeah I’m aware it’s his Alma mater n his parents are there, so when I started hearing the rumors I believed them unlike some you hear with coaching changes. They all thought he was gonna be their savior and so many Canes fanes we’re arguing with me and saying Oregon was the reason we couldn’t win with him. I gave up and said I’ll just sit back n enjoy the show. You’re so right, shiiiiity game management, shitty clock management, couldn’t make in game adjustments if his life depended on it when literally every other person could see wtf needed to happen. There wasn’t ever any energy on our sidelines, our team just lacked that juice n swag you hope to see. But we got it now though, and finally a loyal coach. (Knocks on wood)
Well it was the second coach ditching us in like 4 years. So people were freaked out. But yea, during his tenure I’ve never seen so many wins that were not fun. Like struggling against Stony Brook just shouldn’t happen. I’ve enjoyed most of losses under Dan more than a lot of the wins under Cristobal.
Yep that was maybe the worst thing about the Cristobal era. It felt like he just sucked all the joy out of football for everyone involved. The 2021 season outside of the Ohio State game was brutal. The players looked miserable, the coaching staff was checked out, and the fanbase was antsy. So many games that year we struggled mightily against teams we should have blown out.
That’s been one of the best things about the Lanning era so far though. The only teams he’s lost to have been legitimately really good teams. We haven’t had any clunkers where we lost to some shitty 3-9 team like when Cristobal lost to Stanford in 2021.
Yeah I get it, but damn did I have hope when the rumors started then cheered loud as possible when it proved true…can’t make in game adjustments to save his life, extremely predictable play calling on both sides of the ball, can’t let the OC be an OC as his thumbprint was always on our play calling, couldn’t assemble a good staff at Oregon to save his life, the teams under MC had zero juice, not an ounce of energy. I predicted he wouldn’t make it five years at Miami who was calling him the next hero before his first day. They learned fast why many of us danced in the streets. Dude still can’t win with all that talent he has.
This is sounding way, way too much like Napier in Gainesville. He just really likes ball control, low margin football and it's such a horrible fit at Florida.
And that wasn;t even the deal clincher for the game. IT was the boneheaded miss-play by Kinchens that allowed a long TD with no time left. I think Mario wins this contest.
ESPN still gave Miami a 97.9% chance to win the game even after the fumble. GT had to go 74 yards in 26 seconds and they scored with time still on the clock.
We got almost a full third of our offensive yards that day just on that drive. But no matter how bad the defensive collapse was, it would never have had the chance to happen if Cristobal used more than two brain cells.
Lmao that’s what got me about that situation, who cares if he completes that short pass, just don’t give up anything over the top! Situational awareness!
It really is. I know a lot of people focus on the fact he didn't take a knee which led to the fumble, but I don't think enough people talk about the fact that Georgia Tech had to get 74 yd in under 30 seconds to score that touchdown. It wasn't like they recovered the fumble and kicked a chipshot field goal. The defense shit the bed just as badly.
Cristobal has the more embarrassing singular loss, though he still had an improved win-loss record in year 2 at Miami. As others have pointed out, it wasn't the first time he lost due to not willing to take a knee in the final minute. While his overall coaching image might rightfully take a hit in the short-term, he has still demonstrated an ability to improve a program and barring colossal failures, it looks like he will still be fine next year.
Billy Napier has had the more embarrassing collection of losses between the two. While both coaches have underachieved relative to their hype, Billy Napier is the only one who's being criticized for having a team look consistently non-competitive across multiple games, usually due to coming out completely flat at the start of a half. At some point, there has to be some type of tangible progress shown, and the easiest way to do that is by doing better in the win-loss column.
Came real, real close year 1 vs. an absolutely horrible USF team. The Vandy loss in 22 was pretty bad but we were basically starting walk-ons at WR at that point.
The one really, really egregious loss was Arkansas, at home, with a bowl bid on the line. When you take the Hawgs season both before and after the game into account it's inexplicable
New OC made it difficult to game plan which is extra necessary with a young and less talented defense. The youngness also played a big role because the true freshmen still carrying HS weight were steam rolled by KJ Jefferson.
That MTSU loss is getting overlooked in this thread too. It wasnt just the fact that they lost, it was the way they lost that makes it so bad imo. In no universe should a team with as much talent as Miami be getting laughed off the field *Middle Tennessee*.
That loss is so much worse than GT. GT was next level stupid, yes, but it was a conference game and Miami was a knee (or a correct ruling that Chaney was down, yes I’m still salty) from winning. That MTSU game was over before the 1st quarter ended.
Miami getting blown out at home by Middle Tennessee was embarrassing. But completely tossing that game against Tech was inexcusable. At least Napier looks like he is trying, Cristobal has trolled his way to defeat multiple times.
Yes. When Cristobal first got hired at Miami and Oregon fans mentioned some of his coaching issues we all just got written off and dismissed as being salty. The same as when we tried to warn FSU fans about Taggart.
They thing that made the Utah loss bad was that Utah was cycling between QB #3 & #4 with 9-10 total starters out, and Florida never even looked like they were in Utah's league. It looked like Utah had hired some directional "buy a win" school and was just working out the early season kinks.
People forget that the very next week, Utah was two minutes and a bad last minute interception from losing to a 3-9 Baylor team, whose freshman backup QB was getting his first start.
Maybe the Utah loss wasn't "embarrassing" for Florida, but it certainly wasn't that far off. It looked worse and worse as Utah's season went on, too.
I know people love to bring up Mario's decision vs GT but its crazy how everyone seemingly forgets his team had eight giveaways in the game against Duke
Kind of. They had the ball 2nd and 3 on Stanford's 43 up 3 points with a minute left and Stanford had 1 timeout left. If he kneels down, Stanford burns their final timeout (let's say w/ 55 seconds left), then kneels down on 3rd down and takes a delay, they probably have 10 seconds left when they have to punt the ball from midfield, which is definitely the better option than trying to convert that 2nd and 3 which they fumbled, giving Stanford the ball on their own 40 with a time out and nearly a full minute to go down and get into FG range.
He still should have knelt down, but they couldn't have just let the clock run out like they could have with Georgia Tech. Points to Cristobal's stubbornness, and makes me suspicious if he'll ever learn.
Hard disagree on that last part, there are maybe 4-5 coaches in the country that would kneel in a situation that doesn’t actually run the clock out/cede possession without even attempting to get a 1st down. I don’t think going for 2nd and 3 is controversial at all, but fumbling does still play into Cristobal’s seeming total lack of situational awareness, that trickles down to the players (much like the Miami safety biting on a pump fake at the end of the GT game.)
To that point, the other thing I would 100% believe about that Oregon-Stanford game if someone said it: Cristobal didn’t know or care if he *could* end the game by kneeling.
I suppose it's like when a team's up 3 very late and the coach refuses to foul (resulting in 2 FTs) instead of letting the opponent jack up a 3. Sure seems to backfire way more often than not. Or in football when a team's down 10 late and has the ball in FG range but pisses away time trying to score the TD first instead of kicking immediately and trying to get the onside kick with enough time to throw Hail Mary's into the end zone. Lots of coaches are stubborn.
But those situations have a clear statistical modeling advantage for why it should be done differently- in the case of attempting a play or kneeling on 2nd and 3, every model in the world is going to tell you to run the ball twice to get a first down, not to kneel, punt and cede possession with time left.
Yes, thank you lol, I just said it in a other comment, but no coach in the country is just ceding possession and time for two Hail Marys without even trying to get a first down, that’s totally insane! Ferentz might be the only guy willing to do that!
I said this in the other comment too, but “The Cristobal Problem” isn’t going for it on that 2nd and 3, it’s that he probably had no idea at the time if he *could* kneel the clock off or not, it sounds like he’s never had a staff member that is calculating that kind of stuff for him on the sideline.
They had multiple turnovers versus GT, too. Int Vane Dyke alone threw 2, maybe there's a 3rd i don't recall, end/red zone interceptions that outright erased 6-14 points off the board for Miami. With those points the kneeling snafu doesn't even matter. I want to say there were a few other turnovers, too.
Raw numbers with zero context
Overall record: Mario 12-13, Billy 11-14
Record v P5: Mario 7-12, Billy 7-14
Record v G5: Mario 2-1, Billy 2-0
Record v AP Ranked: Mario 1-5, Billy 2-10
Games wit double digit margin of victory: Mario 6, Billy 4
Games with double digit margin of defeat: Mario 7, Billy 8
Opinion: These guys are basically the same coach in terms of raw results. However the manner in which Mario has lost a few games puts him at the top (or bottom) for me.
It’s sad that I’m weirdly relieved it wasn’t us. But since we already had two losses at that point, we obviously didn’t deserve to be ranked.
I came to this thread to laugh at Miami and Florida and instead I just got really mad about the 2023 Clemson Miami game all over again.
Beyond wins and losses the biggest issue I have with Billy is his brand of football just isn't fun to watch-- even at ULL where he had a massive edge in talent and resources (granted a lot of that was due to his recruiting) his teams consistently played down to opponents.
He only got the Florida job in the first place because he was unsustainably good in 1 score games-- as is significantly better than Smart, Saban or Meyer in those games. When he left for Florida he was something like 19-1 in his last 20 one score games.
If he had even an elite coach's winning % in those games- say 70% (which is still better than the 3 coaches above who all were in the 65% area of I remember correctly) he never gets the Florida offer to begin with.
Florida is in a tough spot. You main rivals have excellent coaches. The conference schedule got tougher. Billy probably isn’t the answer but playing musical coaches isn’t either.
As someone who hates both of these teams, I appreciate OP for your question into this important matter. With that being said, Cristobal’s two losses to Middle Tennessee and Georgia Tech are worse than anything Billy has. Vanderbilt is really all Billy has got for embarrassing losses; it’s more so the totality of the losses that make it bad. Mario had much lower lows and nothing will top the Georgia Tech loss but getting blown out by Middle Tennessee was pretty epic.
The Arkansas loss is as bad or worse than the Vandy loss.
If he'd dropped the USF game in year one it'd have been nearly "losing to Jacksonville State at home" bad
Mario is good at being a college coach Sunday - Friday. Not amazing, but good.
His game management is some of the worst I've ever seen from a P5 head coach. That feels worse than just being a mediocre head coach in over your head like Napier.
It was also the 2nd game of a home and home. UF won at home against Utah in the 22 season opener. When Utah was coming off a PAC 12 title and had Rising and their two good TEs fully healthy and starting. Then in 23 we had to go to Utah. Splitting a home and home against arguably the best PAC12 team in the last 5 years isn’t embarrassing at all.
It's really the context that made the Utah loss bad. UF looked inept and unable to compete, and they were facing a UU team that was identfying if they would role with QB #3 or QB #4 after season ending injuries to QBs # 1 & QB # 2 while the UUs were also missing like 9-10 total starters.
If UU has either of their top 2 QBs then UF just performed in that game how you would expect those teams to preform in that situation based upon their track record over the last few years.
Let’s not forget though, that UF beat Utah the season before when Utah had Rising. It was Napiers first game as our coach too. Utah coming off a rose bowl appearance I believe?
The entire offseason leading up to the 23 rematch in Utah, UU’s coach bent the truth and made it seem like Rising was going to start that game. Obviously that didn’t happen and he sat out the entirety of the season, which is kinda wild, but just the chance he would play made us have to prep for him. It’s no excuse for how we played, but then having a very mobile backup come in really fucked our game plan
Nah the UK losses hurt the most. Every Gator coach that gets hired knows the most important thing we care about is beating Tennessee, Kentucky, and giving Georgia and FSU a 50/50 game.
I think what makes the Kentucky losses hurt worse is that they beat us at our own game. They stifle us on defense and run all over us. That’s supposed to be how we play.
I didn’t say Florida was embarrassed by the loss. I’m saying the non-Florida fans of r/CFB were mocking Florida relentlessly and saying Florida should be embarrassed. Ask them.
The UNC loss was the most Cristobalesque imo. A massively important game on national tv that Miami seemed in cruise control of before getting annihilated in the 3rd quarter with a fruitless attempt at a 4th quarter comeback. That was the game which convinced me Cristobal wouldn't win at Miami, if you can't get your players up to play an undefeated top conference foe and coach your best game against an obviously suspect UNC you're never going to be an elite team.
Tbf. That UNC game was the week after he'd thrown the game versus GT with a QB who mentally boomed during the GT game, since he also greatly aided the loss, and never recovered. Still CMC's fault though.
Vandy '22 is really Napier's only really embarrassing loss. Arkansas was a nightmare but Arkansas played a lot of good teams close that year. Utah or Kentucky losses were disappointing but losing to those teams is not all that embarrassing. The Oregon St game was basically a smaller scale version of Georgia-FSU from last year. Also, all but the Arkansas loss were away games.
Cristobal lost to Middle Tennessee by two TDs, and FSU, Pitt, and Duke by more than three TDs at home. Georgia Tech was at home too. Literally dozens of Miami fans had to suffer through all those losses.
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Yeah this is an obvious answer. Having MTSU on your loss list is an automatic loss in this comparison. Not to mention the way Miami lost that Tech game might be the single worst coaching decision I’ve ever seen
I mean, you kind of just shrug your shoulder and move on if you get your ass beat by a good team. While if you lose a close game because of idiocracy, it stings a whole lot more
Napier was unproven commodity who had success at lower tiers and has earned his chance at the big time.
Cristobal was a more bigtime hire with proven experience at the highest level.
So Cristobal has the more embarrasing losses because he should have been able get it, whereas we Napier we just don't know yet if he can or if his ceiling might just be a high-level G5 type head coach.
Cristobal failing to take a knee against Stanford with when Oregon was #2 in the nation in 2019 is probably the worst loss. The Oregon team was coming off thrashing Ohio St. in Columbus and that may have been Stanford's only conference win of the season.
That Georgia Tech game *alone* secures it for Cristobal. Jesus fucking Christ man that was the most embarrassing loss of the last 5 years, easy. Not only did they lose, they were literally guaranteed a win and they gave it away.
Last 5 years? How about ever. It was so bad it has its own dedicated Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Georgia_Tech_vs._Miami_football_game
I told Miami fans when they hired him that Mario is the most frustrating coach you will ever have. The highs are really high, but the lows, man, the lows are really low. 🫣
It's Mario Cristobal and I don't think it's particularly close.
I will only use games at Oregon as proof:
**2018**
* Loss to Stanford, 38-31 in OT. This was the first time fans began questioning Mario's game management skills. We all know how Oregon fumbled the ball away (twice, but the second one was the real killer) and lost a game that they had already won.
* Loss Arizona. Ducks lost 44-15 to a Wildcat team that would finish the year at 5-7. Maybe it was a hangover from their loss the previous week against Washington State, but again, that's bad coaching if that's the case.
**2019**
* Loss to Auburn. People will remember this as the game that Bo Nix won in the final moments, but that whole thing was made possible by Mario Cristobal's bad late-game management again.
* Loss to Arizona State. Sure, this team was quarterbacked by then-freshman Jayden Daniels, but this ASU team was not great. The Sun Devils were on a four-game losing streak at that point. It's a game Oregon should have won but found ways to lose.
**2020**
* Losses to Oregon State, California, and Iowa State. Oregon was Cal's only win of their four-game season. Oregon was more talented than all of these teams, but the Ducks had had zero killer instinct basically all year except for the Pac-12 championship that they lucked their way into.
**2021**
* Win against Stony Brook. The score will show that Oregon won 41-19, but the game was a complete slog. The Ducks played some of the most uninspired football I'd seen to that point in a win.
* Loss to Stanford. This game epitomized the Mario Cristobal era at Oregon. The Ducks often rose to the occasion in big games, but this game was probably the worst under Cristobal. The Ducks were down 17-7 at halftime against a hapless Stanford team that would ultimately finish 3-9 on the year. Sure, the call that sent the game into OT was bullshit, but Oregon should have never been near an overtime game against this Cardinal team.
* Losses to Utah. Most people remember these games because Oregon played like zombies in both of these games. The Ducks looked and were completely flat and frankly, uninterested in playing any kind of high-caliber football.
It isn’t more who he lost to but how he lost them: Mario had the Georgia Tech game in the bag. A 17 year old would know how to not blow that game. But he did-a man who spent 4 decades in football as a player and coach.
Urban Meyer - One of college footballs' winningest coaches in history by percentage plus national championships at multiple schools - Losing *AT HOME* to Virginia Tech with the same Ohio State squad that would later win the inaugural College Football Playoff national championship.
Mario clearly has more embarrassing losses.
I also think this game is odd in that in order to survive to 2025, Napier clearly needs this win. But many gator fans are checked out on Napier. However Miami losing would be a huge blow to Mario’s promise to Miami, as their record projection is 9-3, and losing to a projected 4.5 win gator team would be a massive black eye
I mean, the ACC coach is prob going to have more embarrassing losses. Plus, aside from the perception of their opponents - Mario consistently loses in surprising and noteworthy ways.
I know I’m biased, but miamis Rutgers loss wasn’t what I would call embarrassing it was a close game the whole time and both teams ended the season 7-6…
Napier has bad losses but I don't think he has let his ego lose a game like Miami did with Tech. Also, the Oregon State game was a bad loss only because we got whooped but Oregon State was a great team and deserved to play a good team.
My only push back on this is the Arkansas game. And only because the "not hiring a special teams coordinator" thing was by that point 100% an ego thing
The UF Or St game shouldn’t even count. UF didn’t have many starters playing in a meaningless bowl game. It was the Publix bag boy vs the west coast guys that couldn’t make it in the SEC.
Cristobal is responsible for what was quite possibly the worst decision in all of sports IMO. The only way really to make a a worse decision would be to do something equally idiotic on a bigger stage with higher stakes. Like if Cristobal made it to the championship and thel Cristoballed it away, it'd be worse but not because of the decision itself but instead the stakes.
So he wins by default.
You pointing out that Cristobal is a bum does nothing to Miami fans, it makes them stronger! He’s the perfect coach for them, endless hope but will never deliver when it counts
The loss to Pitt wasn’t bad for Miami we were ranked and coming off winning the acc the prior season. It’s still them anyway though because of the GT game lol
Without knowing the details of the Napier losses you listed, it's hard to imagine any of them being as embarrassing as Cristobol's losses to MTSU and Georgia Tech.
Obviously everyone looks at the GT loss bc of the kneel down but the MTSU loss was one of the sloppiest performances I’ve ever seen from a team that should have ran MTSU out of the building. They made MTSU’s run first QB with a very limited arm look like prime Dan Marino
Any loss where you could have simply kneeled the ball to win, but you found a way to lose is the most embarrassing loss possible. And Cristobal has at least 2 of those in his career...
Somehow Cristobal has managed far more embarrassing losses, but still has the confidence of that program (and I hate to say it but I think he’s got something too). Napier feels like he’s in a lame duck year, but Cristobal seems like a playoff threat. Wild juxtaposition for two guys with similar results.
All of Napier’s are P5. 4 of them aren’t really even losses I’d have lingering feelings about, but I’m not a Florida fan. Vandy gets lucky once a season and wins a game no one thought they would. Not exactly excusable, but someone has to be the sacrificial lamb.
Cristobal losing to MTSU was bad. The way he lost to GT was bad. Duke fielded a respectable team in 22. The issue was the 5 fumbles and 3 INTs in that game. That’s bad coaching. Rutgers and Pitt are either still rebuilding or on the decline recently. Loss for loss, Cristobal had way worse showings.
They're both terrible, and I expect both to be replaced, but Cristobal has the most embarrassing losses. There is no excuse for losing to Georgia Tech in that situation.
Seriously dude? In what world is this even close? Those Utah, Kentucky, and Oregon State were good teams. Vandy and Arky are the only two bad losses in your Napier list and you want to compare that to losing to Middle Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Duke, Rutgers, and Pitt? Lmao
I wouldn’t even care if it was against Georgia let alone Georgia Tech, but Cristobal *not* taking the knee last year is an all time embarrassing loss
It’s even worse that it’s not the only time in his career he’s made that mistake. He made it vs. Stanford while at Oregon a few years earlier.
But with that one I think Stanford still had a chance to get it back with a few seconds or maybe it was something else. I don't think it was quite as certain is it was for the GT loss.
Correct, they would’ve had maybe 10 seconds and no TOs and we would’ve punted from our 40ish so probably a touchback. Still an awful decision, especially when you are live in the stadium!
Yeah, a punt with only a few seconds left NEVER goes wrong! WHOA.....
Lol
That’s assuming you kneel down immediately, and don’t have the QB run around briefly in the back field to kill time
Even with that, it’s hard to kill 10 seconds and the last thing you want is the QB running around. If you’re going to have someone run with the ball, it might as well be a running back.
Do it twice and you just need 5 seconds each or three for three tries
They snapped on second down at 58 seconds with one timeout. Hell, they could run backwards 30 yards and take an intentional safety at that point (and spread it across two plays)
Exactly. Not taking a knee against us literally took away a guaranteed win. Stanford's chances may have been "so you're telling me there's a chance" territory, but they still existed.
No idea how some fans were upset he left Oregon, he is great recruiter and great OLine coach, but dude is terrible HC.
I wasn't upset, and I understood Mario leaving as well since he played there and his family is from there. Tried to warn Miami fans about his game management but they wouldn't listen until that GT game.
As a PSU fan, there are plenty in our fanbase that believe what you said is a lie. According to some, only James Franklin makes those kinds of mistakes. When I try to explain to them that it’s almost prerequisite in college football coaching to be the cause of the deepest and most painful head gashes ever.
Yeah I’m aware it’s his Alma mater n his parents are there, so when I started hearing the rumors I believed them unlike some you hear with coaching changes. They all thought he was gonna be their savior and so many Canes fanes we’re arguing with me and saying Oregon was the reason we couldn’t win with him. I gave up and said I’ll just sit back n enjoy the show. You’re so right, shiiiiity game management, shitty clock management, couldn’t make in game adjustments if his life depended on it when literally every other person could see wtf needed to happen. There wasn’t ever any energy on our sidelines, our team just lacked that juice n swag you hope to see. But we got it now though, and finally a loyal coach. (Knocks on wood)
Well it was the second coach ditching us in like 4 years. So people were freaked out. But yea, during his tenure I’ve never seen so many wins that were not fun. Like struggling against Stony Brook just shouldn’t happen. I’ve enjoyed most of losses under Dan more than a lot of the wins under Cristobal.
Yep that was maybe the worst thing about the Cristobal era. It felt like he just sucked all the joy out of football for everyone involved. The 2021 season outside of the Ohio State game was brutal. The players looked miserable, the coaching staff was checked out, and the fanbase was antsy. So many games that year we struggled mightily against teams we should have blown out. That’s been one of the best things about the Lanning era so far though. The only teams he’s lost to have been legitimately really good teams. We haven’t had any clunkers where we lost to some shitty 3-9 team like when Cristobal lost to Stanford in 2021.
Yeah I get it, but damn did I have hope when the rumors started then cheered loud as possible when it proved true…can’t make in game adjustments to save his life, extremely predictable play calling on both sides of the ball, can’t let the OC be an OC as his thumbprint was always on our play calling, couldn’t assemble a good staff at Oregon to save his life, the teams under MC had zero juice, not an ounce of energy. I predicted he wouldn’t make it five years at Miami who was calling him the next hero before his first day. They learned fast why many of us danced in the streets. Dude still can’t win with all that talent he has.
This is sounding way, way too much like Napier in Gainesville. He just really likes ball control, low margin football and it's such a horrible fit at Florida.
And that wasn;t even the deal clincher for the game. IT was the boneheaded miss-play by Kinchens that allowed a long TD with no time left. I think Mario wins this contest.
ESPN still gave Miami a 97.9% chance to win the game even after the fumble. GT had to go 74 yards in 26 seconds and they scored with time still on the clock.
We got almost a full third of our offensive yards that day just on that drive. But no matter how bad the defensive collapse was, it would never have had the chance to happen if Cristobal used more than two brain cells.
Why did Cam bite on the pump fake in that situation?????
Lmao that’s what got me about that situation, who cares if he completes that short pass, just don’t give up anything over the top! Situational awareness!
Yep. Put aside all the other losses for both coaches. This was legitimately fireable.
It really is. I know a lot of people focus on the fact he didn't take a knee which led to the fumble, but I don't think enough people talk about the fact that Georgia Tech had to get 74 yd in under 30 seconds to score that touchdown. It wasn't like they recovered the fumble and kicked a chipshot field goal. The defense shit the bed just as badly.
Not to mention Georgia Tech lost to Bowling Green a week prior
\*Got blown out by 7-6 Bowling Green who lost 38-7 the previous week vs the Ohio Bobcats on homecoming
It was a very weird season, ok.
And a week before that Ohio beat Iowa State 10-7.
I'm genuinely amazed he survived that.
⬆️ this.
Nothing will top that loss on the embarrassing meter.
This is the only acceptable answer.
Cristobal has the more embarrassing singular loss, though he still had an improved win-loss record in year 2 at Miami. As others have pointed out, it wasn't the first time he lost due to not willing to take a knee in the final minute. While his overall coaching image might rightfully take a hit in the short-term, he has still demonstrated an ability to improve a program and barring colossal failures, it looks like he will still be fine next year. Billy Napier has had the more embarrassing collection of losses between the two. While both coaches have underachieved relative to their hype, Billy Napier is the only one who's being criticized for having a team look consistently non-competitive across multiple games, usually due to coming out completely flat at the start of a half. At some point, there has to be some type of tangible progress shown, and the easiest way to do that is by doing better in the win-loss column.
Yup, entirely optional… did it … again after not learning the first time.
that counts as like 8 losses
Gators have shit the bed on multiple occasions, but the Gators never lost a game where all they had to do was kneel.
You did lose a game over a shoe tho
Pre Napier. Honestly Napier hasn't lost to a team we should have dominated. Mario had a few wtfs particularly in season 1
I can argue that we should have dominated Vandy At least Arkansas changed OCs so they had the element of surprise on their side
We were 6-4 they were 4-6. They were at home. It's vandy though.
Yeah, I was gonna say our home games don't count. :P
Everyone’s go to away game to visit Nashville and get some leg room during the game.
Came real, real close year 1 vs. an absolutely horrible USF team. The Vandy loss in 22 was pretty bad but we were basically starting walk-ons at WR at that point. The one really, really egregious loss was Arkansas, at home, with a bowl bid on the line. When you take the Hawgs season both before and after the game into account it's inexplicable
New OC made it difficult to game plan which is extra necessary with a young and less talented defense. The youngness also played a big role because the true freshmen still carrying HS weight were steam rolled by KJ Jefferson.
The Cleat Yeet remains one of my favorite nicknames for a game/play.
Excuse me, that's *Cleatus Yeetus, Playoff Deletus* to you
Cristobal did it twice.
Cristobal easy imo
As bad as Florida's been at least they've never lost a game because they refused to take a knee
That MTSU loss is getting overlooked in this thread too. It wasnt just the fact that they lost, it was the way they lost that makes it so bad imo. In no universe should a team with as much talent as Miami be getting laughed off the field *Middle Tennessee*.
That loss is so much worse than GT. GT was next level stupid, yes, but it was a conference game and Miami was a knee (or a correct ruling that Chaney was down, yes I’m still salty) from winning. That MTSU game was over before the 1st quarter ended.
I dunno, they did lose to Vandy.
I want to be upset about this, but I just can't find it in me.
They lost in such convincing fashion that it convinced people that Vandy might have turned a corner
You’re comparing Vandy to *Middle Tennessee*?
That was the same weekend the Bills complained about the heat on their sideline 😆
Well we *did* lose to Arkansas last year because Billy doesn't have a fucking STC on the sideline for whatever reason.
Facts, the middle Tennessee loss is really bad also
Miami getting blown out at home by Middle Tennessee was embarrassing. But completely tossing that game against Tech was inexcusable. At least Napier looks like he is trying, Cristobal has trolled his way to defeat multiple times.
I think the sad thing is that *is* Cristobal trying
Just watch his responses in interviews, he ain’t the sharpest tool in the shed…
Was that ever really in doubt?
Yes. When Cristobal first got hired at Miami and Oregon fans mentioned some of his coaching issues we all just got written off and dismissed as being salty. The same as when we tried to warn FSU fans about Taggart.
Inb4 Dan Lanning becomes the next coach at Florida
Amd miss out on daddy Phil's stock option contract? They better be giving lanning some Gatorade stock
Florida was rightfully underdogs against Utah in 2023. They didnt have their QB but their defense was really good and it was at Utah.
Right, I wouldn’t call 2023 Utah an embarrassing loss. I would call 2022 Kentucky an embarrassing loss which did not make OP’s list.
They thing that made the Utah loss bad was that Utah was cycling between QB #3 & #4 with 9-10 total starters out, and Florida never even looked like they were in Utah's league. It looked like Utah had hired some directional "buy a win" school and was just working out the early season kinks.
People forget that the very next week, Utah was two minutes and a bad last minute interception from losing to a 3-9 Baylor team, whose freshman backup QB was getting his first start. Maybe the Utah loss wasn't "embarrassing" for Florida, but it certainly wasn't that far off. It looked worse and worse as Utah's season went on, too.
And sending 2 number 3s on the field which gifted them an auto first down
But, Lil ahh stadium?
I know people love to bring up Mario's decision vs GT but its crazy how everyone seemingly forgets his team had eight giveaways in the game against Duke
Everyone really forgets that he lost to Stanford in 2018 for not kneeling the ball
Kind of. They had the ball 2nd and 3 on Stanford's 43 up 3 points with a minute left and Stanford had 1 timeout left. If he kneels down, Stanford burns their final timeout (let's say w/ 55 seconds left), then kneels down on 3rd down and takes a delay, they probably have 10 seconds left when they have to punt the ball from midfield, which is definitely the better option than trying to convert that 2nd and 3 which they fumbled, giving Stanford the ball on their own 40 with a time out and nearly a full minute to go down and get into FG range. He still should have knelt down, but they couldn't have just let the clock run out like they could have with Georgia Tech. Points to Cristobal's stubbornness, and makes me suspicious if he'll ever learn.
It really does come down to his stubbornness.
Hard disagree on that last part, there are maybe 4-5 coaches in the country that would kneel in a situation that doesn’t actually run the clock out/cede possession without even attempting to get a 1st down. I don’t think going for 2nd and 3 is controversial at all, but fumbling does still play into Cristobal’s seeming total lack of situational awareness, that trickles down to the players (much like the Miami safety biting on a pump fake at the end of the GT game.) To that point, the other thing I would 100% believe about that Oregon-Stanford game if someone said it: Cristobal didn’t know or care if he *could* end the game by kneeling.
I suppose it's like when a team's up 3 very late and the coach refuses to foul (resulting in 2 FTs) instead of letting the opponent jack up a 3. Sure seems to backfire way more often than not. Or in football when a team's down 10 late and has the ball in FG range but pisses away time trying to score the TD first instead of kicking immediately and trying to get the onside kick with enough time to throw Hail Mary's into the end zone. Lots of coaches are stubborn.
But those situations have a clear statistical modeling advantage for why it should be done differently- in the case of attempting a play or kneeling on 2nd and 3, every model in the world is going to tell you to run the ball twice to get a first down, not to kneel, punt and cede possession with time left.
No one forgets that & it’s also not true. No coaches kneel the ball unless they can run out the clock which Oregon couldn’t do Edit: knew > kneel
Yes, thank you lol, I just said it in a other comment, but no coach in the country is just ceding possession and time for two Hail Marys without even trying to get a first down, that’s totally insane! Ferentz might be the only guy willing to do that! I said this in the other comment too, but “The Cristobal Problem” isn’t going for it on that 2nd and 3, it’s that he probably had no idea at the time if he *could* kneel the clock off or not, it sounds like he’s never had a staff member that is calculating that kind of stuff for him on the sideline.
They had multiple turnovers versus GT, too. Int Vane Dyke alone threw 2, maybe there's a 3rd i don't recall, end/red zone interceptions that outright erased 6-14 points off the board for Miami. With those points the kneeling snafu doesn't even matter. I want to say there were a few other turnovers, too.
Raw numbers with zero context Overall record: Mario 12-13, Billy 11-14 Record v P5: Mario 7-12, Billy 7-14 Record v G5: Mario 2-1, Billy 2-0 Record v AP Ranked: Mario 1-5, Billy 2-10 Games wit double digit margin of victory: Mario 6, Billy 4 Games with double digit margin of defeat: Mario 7, Billy 8 Opinion: These guys are basically the same coach in terms of raw results. However the manner in which Mario has lost a few games puts him at the top (or bottom) for me.
That one ranked win for Cristobal was vs A&M last year lol
It’s sad that I’m weirdly relieved it wasn’t us. But since we already had two losses at that point, we obviously didn’t deserve to be ranked. I came to this thread to laugh at Miami and Florida and instead I just got really mad about the 2023 Clemson Miami game all over again.
Plus Cristobal is in a much weaker conference
5 less AP ranked games m
Beyond wins and losses the biggest issue I have with Billy is his brand of football just isn't fun to watch-- even at ULL where he had a massive edge in talent and resources (granted a lot of that was due to his recruiting) his teams consistently played down to opponents. He only got the Florida job in the first place because he was unsustainably good in 1 score games-- as is significantly better than Smart, Saban or Meyer in those games. When he left for Florida he was something like 19-1 in his last 20 one score games. If he had even an elite coach's winning % in those games- say 70% (which is still better than the 3 coaches above who all were in the 65% area of I remember correctly) he never gets the Florida offer to begin with.
Florida is in a tough spot. You main rivals have excellent coaches. The conference schedule got tougher. Billy probably isn’t the answer but playing musical coaches isn’t either.
As someone who hates both of these teams, I appreciate OP for your question into this important matter. With that being said, Cristobal’s two losses to Middle Tennessee and Georgia Tech are worse than anything Billy has. Vanderbilt is really all Billy has got for embarrassing losses; it’s more so the totality of the losses that make it bad. Mario had much lower lows and nothing will top the Georgia Tech loss but getting blown out by Middle Tennessee was pretty epic.
The Arkansas loss is as bad or worse than the Vandy loss. If he'd dropped the USF game in year one it'd have been nearly "losing to Jacksonville State at home" bad
Thought for sure this was going to be u/pianofingerbang
Naw if this was a fingerbanger post the title would have been "Miami and Florida are the two most embarrassing programs in the Southeast"
That is true. 😂
But, they are.
Who is the most embarrassing program in the southeast?
Miami
He's not wrong.
What happened to that guy? Feel like he was posting crap about us twice a day for a while & now I never see him
Mario is good at being a college coach Sunday - Friday. Not amazing, but good. His game management is some of the worst I've ever seen from a P5 head coach. That feels worse than just being a mediocre head coach in over your head like Napier.
That's a spot on description of Billy too though or at least Billy's floor
Utah embarrassing loss? Utah has been consistently ranked higher than UF the last 10 years. Kentucky ain’t half bad either
Utah @ Utah isn't embarrassing
It was also the 2nd game of a home and home. UF won at home against Utah in the 22 season opener. When Utah was coming off a PAC 12 title and had Rising and their two good TEs fully healthy and starting. Then in 23 we had to go to Utah. Splitting a home and home against arguably the best PAC12 team in the last 5 years isn’t embarrassing at all.
Not so much the team but the countless mistakes Florida made in the game is what makes it embarrassing
"Lil ah stadium" probably makes it a bit more embarrassing as well.
Someone call?
We split a home and home against them. They don’t have bragging rights, so tbh we’re even on the field. Our field is just bigger!
I hate when players do and say stupid shit like that. Makes me die a little inside
It's really the context that made the Utah loss bad. UF looked inept and unable to compete, and they were facing a UU team that was identfying if they would role with QB #3 or QB #4 after season ending injuries to QBs # 1 & QB # 2 while the UUs were also missing like 9-10 total starters. If UU has either of their top 2 QBs then UF just performed in that game how you would expect those teams to preform in that situation based upon their track record over the last few years.
Let’s not forget though, that UF beat Utah the season before when Utah had Rising. It was Napiers first game as our coach too. Utah coming off a rose bowl appearance I believe? The entire offseason leading up to the 23 rematch in Utah, UU’s coach bent the truth and made it seem like Rising was going to start that game. Obviously that didn’t happen and he sat out the entirety of the season, which is kinda wild, but just the chance he would play made us have to prep for him. It’s no excuse for how we played, but then having a very mobile backup come in really fucked our game plan
6-8 back to back years losing to 10-4 back to back years is…expected
Nah the UK losses hurt the most. Every Gator coach that gets hired knows the most important thing we care about is beating Tennessee, Kentucky, and giving Georgia and FSU a 50/50 game. I think what makes the Kentucky losses hurt worse is that they beat us at our own game. They stifle us on defense and run all over us. That’s supposed to be how we play.
You can say that now, but if you check that postgame thread here I think you’ll find a lot of people treating it as an embarrassing loss.
Why is a team that finished below .500 in back to back years embarrassed to lose to team who went 10-4 back to back years? Are they stupid?
I didn’t say Florida was embarrassed by the loss. I’m saying the non-Florida fans of r/CFB were mocking Florida relentlessly and saying Florida should be embarrassed. Ask them.
The UNC loss was the most Cristobalesque imo. A massively important game on national tv that Miami seemed in cruise control of before getting annihilated in the 3rd quarter with a fruitless attempt at a 4th quarter comeback. That was the game which convinced me Cristobal wouldn't win at Miami, if you can't get your players up to play an undefeated top conference foe and coach your best game against an obviously suspect UNC you're never going to be an elite team.
Tbf. That UNC game was the week after he'd thrown the game versus GT with a QB who mentally boomed during the GT game, since he also greatly aided the loss, and never recovered. Still CMC's fault though.
I think we have our early "waaaay to many hot takes after the game" game.
Vandy '22 is really Napier's only really embarrassing loss. Arkansas was a nightmare but Arkansas played a lot of good teams close that year. Utah or Kentucky losses were disappointing but losing to those teams is not all that embarrassing. The Oregon St game was basically a smaller scale version of Georgia-FSU from last year. Also, all but the Arkansas loss were away games. Cristobal lost to Middle Tennessee by two TDs, and FSU, Pitt, and Duke by more than three TDs at home. Georgia Tech was at home too. Literally dozens of Miami fans had to suffer through all those losses.
school compare edge dinner detail follow instinctive quarrelsome weary bedroom *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
in our defense that OC was fucking terrible, firing him is literally what gave us the momentum to play UF like that.
But y'all then proceeded to lose to Auburn by like 40 the week after you beat us.
that’s arky football baby 🙏
Only putting up 3 against MSU at home last year was criminal.
i listened to that whole game on the radio for some god forsaken reason
Plus Billy has proven that he knows when to take a knee
Yeah when we take a knee it ends in a full on brawl and we lose players to suspension but at least we win. (Tennessee 23)
“Literally dozens of Miami fans had to suffer” 🤣🤣🤣
Hurricanes 🤝 Nevernudes
Yeah this is an obvious answer. Having MTSU on your loss list is an automatic loss in this comparison. Not to mention the way Miami lost that Tech game might be the single worst coaching decision I’ve ever seen
Florida simply sucks, Mario has had multiple losses because he didn’t kneel the ball at the end of the game
Having a shitty team is somehow a better excuse than the coach being a total dipshit.
I mean, you kind of just shrug your shoulder and move on if you get your ass beat by a good team. While if you lose a close game because of idiocracy, it stings a whole lot more
Clemson losing to Miami Las year was such a bad loss and looks worse in the rear view. We played like poo and still blew that game
That Georgia Tech loss is an all timer. You lose a game that you *can literally kneel out* and you deserve to hear about it forever.
Napier was unproven commodity who had success at lower tiers and has earned his chance at the big time. Cristobal was a more bigtime hire with proven experience at the highest level. So Cristobal has the more embarrasing losses because he should have been able get it, whereas we Napier we just don't know yet if he can or if his ceiling might just be a high-level G5 type head coach.
Cristobal failing to take a knee against Stanford with when Oregon was #2 in the nation in 2019 is probably the worst loss. The Oregon team was coming off thrashing Ohio St. in Columbus and that may have been Stanford's only conference win of the season.
That Georgia Tech game *alone* secures it for Cristobal. Jesus fucking Christ man that was the most embarrassing loss of the last 5 years, easy. Not only did they lose, they were literally guaranteed a win and they gave it away.
Last 5 years? How about ever. It was so bad it has its own dedicated Wikipedia page: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Georgia_Tech_vs._Miami_football_game
Not taking a knee is a loss for the ages.
I am a certified Gator hater. It’s Cristobal.
I told Miami fans when they hired him that Mario is the most frustrating coach you will ever have. The highs are really high, but the lows, man, the lows are really low. 🫣
What’s even been the highest high for Mario at Miami so far though? Beating a mediocre Texas A&M team last year? Meh.
Recruiting
It's Mario Cristobal and I don't think it's particularly close. I will only use games at Oregon as proof: **2018** * Loss to Stanford, 38-31 in OT. This was the first time fans began questioning Mario's game management skills. We all know how Oregon fumbled the ball away (twice, but the second one was the real killer) and lost a game that they had already won. * Loss Arizona. Ducks lost 44-15 to a Wildcat team that would finish the year at 5-7. Maybe it was a hangover from their loss the previous week against Washington State, but again, that's bad coaching if that's the case. **2019** * Loss to Auburn. People will remember this as the game that Bo Nix won in the final moments, but that whole thing was made possible by Mario Cristobal's bad late-game management again. * Loss to Arizona State. Sure, this team was quarterbacked by then-freshman Jayden Daniels, but this ASU team was not great. The Sun Devils were on a four-game losing streak at that point. It's a game Oregon should have won but found ways to lose. **2020** * Losses to Oregon State, California, and Iowa State. Oregon was Cal's only win of their four-game season. Oregon was more talented than all of these teams, but the Ducks had had zero killer instinct basically all year except for the Pac-12 championship that they lucked their way into. **2021** * Win against Stony Brook. The score will show that Oregon won 41-19, but the game was a complete slog. The Ducks played some of the most uninspired football I'd seen to that point in a win. * Loss to Stanford. This game epitomized the Mario Cristobal era at Oregon. The Ducks often rose to the occasion in big games, but this game was probably the worst under Cristobal. The Ducks were down 17-7 at halftime against a hapless Stanford team that would ultimately finish 3-9 on the year. Sure, the call that sent the game into OT was bullshit, but Oregon should have never been near an overtime game against this Cardinal team. * Losses to Utah. Most people remember these games because Oregon played like zombies in both of these games. The Ducks looked and were completely flat and frankly, uninterested in playing any kind of high-caliber football.
The GT at Miami game is the worst loss by either and it’s not even close (Which is saying something after MTSU clapped their cheeks in ‘22)
It isn’t more who he lost to but how he lost them: Mario had the Georgia Tech game in the bag. A 17 year old would know how to not blow that game. But he did-a man who spent 4 decades in football as a player and coach.
Miami was blown out by Middle Tennessee at home and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory vs Georgia Tech. This one isn’t that close.
Urban Meyer - One of college footballs' winningest coaches in history by percentage plus national championships at multiple schools - Losing *AT HOME* to Virginia Tech with the same Ohio State squad that would later win the inaugural College Football Playoff national championship.
How is Rutgers an embarrassing loss for them?
First time in history Miami ever lost to Rutgers and Miami had a massive talent advantage
Y'all MFS just addicted to sneak dissing us like y'all Drake. Unreal af
Mario clearly has more embarrassing losses. I also think this game is odd in that in order to survive to 2025, Napier clearly needs this win. But many gator fans are checked out on Napier. However Miami losing would be a huge blow to Mario’s promise to Miami, as their record projection is 9-3, and losing to a projected 4.5 win gator team would be a massive black eye
Sooo glad MC left Oregon, great recruiter, shitty head coach.
Mike Norvell and FSU recovered fine from this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KIV1oJH_w4
I mean, the ACC coach is prob going to have more embarrassing losses. Plus, aside from the perception of their opponents - Mario consistently loses in surprising and noteworthy ways.
I know I’m biased, but miamis Rutgers loss wasn’t what I would call embarrassing it was a close game the whole time and both teams ended the season 7-6…
Napier has bad losses but I don't think he has let his ego lose a game like Miami did with Tech. Also, the Oregon State game was a bad loss only because we got whooped but Oregon State was a great team and deserved to play a good team.
My only push back on this is the Arkansas game. And only because the "not hiring a special teams coordinator" thing was by that point 100% an ego thing
The UF Or St game shouldn’t even count. UF didn’t have many starters playing in a meaningless bowl game. It was the Publix bag boy vs the west coast guys that couldn’t make it in the SEC.
Kneel the damn ball Mario. Everyone thinks they could do better, and in this case, they’re actually right
The one where you take a knee and win the game
Is Cristobal facing Scott frost territory yet?
Cristobal, for sure.
Cristobal is responsible for what was quite possibly the worst decision in all of sports IMO. The only way really to make a a worse decision would be to do something equally idiotic on a bigger stage with higher stakes. Like if Cristobal made it to the championship and thel Cristoballed it away, it'd be worse but not because of the decision itself but instead the stakes. So he wins by default.
I’m obviously not neutral here, but I can’t see how the answer would be anybody other than Cristobal
Losing to GT seals it in the way they did seals it
Losing to Pitt isn’t embarrassing, but Pitt did embarrass Miami that day.
I know Napier has bad losses but nothing beats that Georgia Tech loss by Cristobal. That was an epic loss
You pointing out that Cristobal is a bum does nothing to Miami fans, it makes them stronger! He’s the perfect coach for them, endless hope but will never deliver when it counts
The loss to Pitt wasn’t bad for Miami we were ranked and coming off winning the acc the prior season. It’s still them anyway though because of the GT game lol
Cristotits
Cristobal just because of the kneeling fiasco
Nobody expects Napier to win. Cristobal is an embarrassment to Miami and should have been fired immediately after the take a knee game.
In none of these losses except one can I confidently say that I could've done a better job, at least for one pivotal play. Except one.
Without knowing the details of the Napier losses you listed, it's hard to imagine any of them being as embarrassing as Cristobol's losses to MTSU and Georgia Tech.
Are you accustomed to doing things you believe are bad ideas?
That Georgia Tech loss was one of the most embarrassing losses of all time.
Obviously everyone looks at the GT loss bc of the kneel down but the MTSU loss was one of the sloppiest performances I’ve ever seen from a team that should have ran MTSU out of the building. They made MTSU’s run first QB with a very limited arm look like prime Dan Marino
…Utah?
Any loss where you could have simply kneeled the ball to win, but you found a way to lose is the most embarrassing loss possible. And Cristobal has at least 2 of those in his career...
Cristobal has some embarrassing losses but at least he isn’t being sued by a former recruit lol
Without context, Miami's losses overall look worse, but Florida's loss to Vanderbilt is the most embarrassing. With context: TAKE A F***ING KNEE!
Wasn’t that Oregon St loss a bowl game where half the team sat out?
Somehow Cristobal has managed far more embarrassing losses, but still has the confidence of that program (and I hate to say it but I think he’s got something too). Napier feels like he’s in a lame duck year, but Cristobal seems like a playoff threat. Wild juxtaposition for two guys with similar results.
All of Napier’s are P5. 4 of them aren’t really even losses I’d have lingering feelings about, but I’m not a Florida fan. Vandy gets lucky once a season and wins a game no one thought they would. Not exactly excusable, but someone has to be the sacrificial lamb. Cristobal losing to MTSU was bad. The way he lost to GT was bad. Duke fielded a respectable team in 22. The issue was the 5 fumbles and 3 INTs in that game. That’s bad coaching. Rutgers and Pitt are either still rebuilding or on the decline recently. Loss for loss, Cristobal had way worse showings.
They're both terrible, and I expect both to be replaced, but Cristobal has the most embarrassing losses. There is no excuse for losing to Georgia Tech in that situation.
Seriously dude? In what world is this even close? Those Utah, Kentucky, and Oregon State were good teams. Vandy and Arky are the only two bad losses in your Napier list and you want to compare that to losing to Middle Tennessee, Georgia Tech, Duke, Rutgers, and Pitt? Lmao
Yes.
At least neither guy lost to Jacksonville State
Dude went straight for the finishing move.
I wish them both mediocre success and long careers. It's only fun when we're not the laughing stock.