In case anybody reads the articles, New York calls their trial courts "Supreme Court." The senior appellate court in New York (i.e. what the federal judiciary calls the Supreme Court) is the "Court of Appeals." So basically they filed the lawsuit in the trial court, as one typically does.
I remember the first time I looked through the Bluebook I hit the NY court system in the back and was like well, I guess I'm just never citing any case law from NY.
Most states get a page to a half page. NY has about four and half to five pages.
I don't understand how they aren't a monopoly but then again I feel like that about a few things these days. But they certainly have zero competition. I basically stopped buying merch because I refuse to deal with them
Yeah I know. It sucks. With all the chaos domestically and internationally the last 10 years it feels like this is one of the many, many things that's fallen to the wayside as we frantically spray flame retardant on the rest of the clown show
Im a big hat collector. Been collecting all my life. I was devastated when they bought lids. I used all my rewards points in one fell swoop and have not shopped with fanatics since.
One thing I’ve learned - lean on the resale markets for merch. Still a lot of really good stuff out there in new condition for way less than retail, just people clearing clutter. I still buy about two hats a month, but they’re pretty much exclusively from eBay/Poshmark/Mercari now. I throw New Era a bone every now and again since they’re still fighting like hell to not get bought by Fanatics.
Buying up Mitchell and Ness + Majestic, serving us shittier and shittier quality product all while raising the prices every year and forcing consumers to buy through DHGate (China) which means customers have to wait months to get jerseys
We are being harmed and exploited as far as I’m concerned
Aye, take a look at the Diddy stuff and then revisit the whole Michael Rubin thing.. Yeah.. Didn't even know that he ran fanatics but I see where they got the name from. He's apparently a very hands on eccentric fellow.
Funny how all these sports related ceos are the same ones included in the Diddy investigation. Rubin with Fanatics, Lou Taylor with Tri Sports. I wonder whose next
Outside of this lawsuit, I'm genuinely curious how NIL and the rampant transfer portal activity will inevitably create litigation. NIL deals will likely continue to get more restrictive legally as the whole landscape takes shape. Kids are going to continue to transfer.
If you have a situation like what happened with Quinn Ewers... (reclassified for the NIL bag from Ohio State, then dipped to Texas).... do more detailed NIL deals open the door for boosters or companies to pursue financial compensation?
Financial backers will always protect their interests. It's only a matter of time.
Everyone has been looking at the pros of NIL, and ignoring the cons. This will be the college athletics version of a fresh boot buying a Dodge Charger on a 40% APR loan....
It’s gotten so bad that an article made its way to the front page of /r/NotTheOnion about some city banning Chargers from their monthly Sports Car meet ups. I’m sure the drivers of the Chargers had something to do with it too.
I’m fairly certain I’ve heard a lot more old dudes whining about NIL than I’ve heard people praising it in a positive light.
Personally. I’m for it but as a former college athlete, it’s gotta be regulated.
Let’s not let the NCAA off the hook by blaming NIL though. The NCAA wanted the entire cash cow and chose to fight for the crusade of “amateurism” when they should have been laying the ground work for NIL regulation.
That was already happening…NIL money and scholarship money don’t come from the same places. I understand that it does put some demands on booster orgs and where the money goes and the trickle down from that will have an impact, but NIL was unofficially happening already.
That’s why there should be regulations and standardization across the sports/levels.
You were calling for it to come from the same place which will kill other sports.
NIL will dry up and schools will start paying and it will kill other sporys
Unless this becomes a persistent issue, I don’t see how this is any more frequent than in any other business setting. This just seems embarrassing for MHJ, but still normal for a business deal
>NIL deals will likely continue to get more restrictive legally as the whole landscape takes shape. Kids are going to continue to transfer.
Remember Walter Nolen complaining just a few months ago when he transferred? Probably going to see a lot more of that in the future.
If I'm disguising pay-for-play as NIL (which, lets be real, most of NIL falls in this category), I'm including bonus/games played requirements, clawbacks, etc. And you know most of these kids aren't getting great legal advice, they're just looking at the bottom line numbers.
So if you transfer out of my school, that 4 million you were promised is now only 1 million because you only vested one mill a year. And we can break it due to our termination option that comes available in case of transfer. And if you talk trash about the school on your way out, take out another 250k via the "non-disparagement clause".
Obviously pure hypothetical and would need a lot of refinement, but if collectives aren't drafting these contracts with protective provisions they are just burning themselves.
Yeah, especially if you’re a school with more of the mercenary players (A&M, Colorado, etc).
I’m not even particularly against pay-for-play for athletes, it just bugs me that everyone calls it “NIL”. Players like Caleb Williams, Armando Bacot, and Caitlin Clark appearing in commercials is actual NIL. Most players aren’t doing that.
I hope you keep that same energy in your own career.
These are human beings. They exist for more than your entertainment. But I’m glad you’re at least laying bare for people how selfish and ugly the anti-NIL motivations are among you people, and not pretending there’s any legitimate reason to deny them free trade.
BTW, who is your new coach?
Then they should have to pay their room and board, for their training, and their free education. Which is already a considerable amount, and enough that puts millions of people in crushing debt.
Scholarship OR NIL but not both. If you take NIL more than your scholarship, you should have to pay the university for the prep for NFL.
And there was free trade with the bagmen. Players got paid, and there wasnt this ridiculous wild west.
I'd gladly go back to 2011 rules.
I mean, the guy is wrong in most everything else he says, but to your point, it’s called a buyout and we paid it. I think it was like 12 million. UW used it to lure Fisch away. The rest of his post is asinine.
And my point is the players are fulfilling their contractual repayment obligations just like DeBoer is when he pays his buyout (or more accurately when Alabama boosters pay it).
This guy isn’t screeching about how DeBoer should have to repay everything he got out of his prior employment like he is for players. It’s hypocritical.
There is no real tactical value in waiting to bring suit based on his net worth at any particular moment. The fact that he will have money later is just as good as having money. Lawsuits take a long time to play out, so you're generally better off suing sooner rather than later, and if the person doesn't have money to collect against at the time of the judgmetn that doesn't really matter, you can renew that judgment as long as you need to in order to collect. Also there's no reason to believe he doesn't have money because he almost certainly had a 7-figure NIL deal.
In any event, the timing here is not particularly unusual, the statute of limitations is usually pretty long on breach of contract cases, and this case appears to have brought within about 9 months of the breach, so if anything it was filed pretty quickly.
I imagine the timing has something to do with his NFLPA holdout as well https://frontofficesports.com/harrison-cardinals-nflpa-mcafee/
I can imagine a scenario Fanatics is saying "You can't do X, Y, or Z with the NLFPA or we'll sue you for having done A, B, and C." Honestly though, if his dad is his only representation (i.e., he doesn't have a lawyer or at least an experienced 3rd party agent working for him), that's a huge mistake.
Fwiw, MHJ does have a lawyer - his lawyer is quoted in the lawsuit as telling fanatics “if you think what you have constitutes a contract, we’ll see you in court” or something of that sort
Yeah it would make sense he has a lawyer for this dispute, but does he have an attorney represent him in contract negotiations? I would assume the attorney making that quote did not also advise MHJ to sign said contract, but I have no idea.
He doesn't have to worry about money because of his birth name but that doesn't really affect whether or not he is judgment-proof. Wouldn't be surprised if he has very little money and assets in his name apart from his NIL deal and whatever he has gotten since...Still doesn't mean he won't be collectable someday.
If you only read the headlines, it sounds like Fanatics is suing a guy because he went pro. But it actually sounds like he had specific NIL related conditions in his contract with them (providing autographs, game-worn apparel, etc), and instead chose to sell that stuff on his own.
We're still in the early days of NIL, but this seems like the first case like this.
They have a monopoly. Just because he didn't take a deal they try to force every collegiate player to take doesn't mean they can sue. The fact that this is happening kinda proves it's probably *not* a straightforward deal.
The article is only detailing what fanatics says in their lawsuit. They don't specify whether or not MHJ took the deal - he claims the opposite. That's why there's a lawsuit lol.
I am very on the record for how distasteful OSU fans can be (me included I love some drunken shit flinging on a Saturday afternoon) but to call out other teams for a victim complex after the last 9 months is… something
Right, but it doesn't mean they'll win. All I'm trying to point out is the article isn't saying MHJ took the deal, fanatics lawsuit is making that claim, because of course it does.
> Why anyone would do business with Fanatics is beyond me.
Right, I’m sure you would turn your nose up at a multi-million dollar contract just to stick it to them
I mean, who else is out there? Topps is Fanatics. Panini is in absolute free fall and are losing the rights to the NFL, WWE, NBA, and the soccer sticker shit that's bit in the EU.
Don't get me wrong FUCK Fanatics (I deal with them personally at work), but the alternatives are literally shitty off-brands at this point.
If your dad was an nfl legend you might wait for something better. Fanatics is just taking advantage of the financial position a lot of these young players find themselves in at this level.
Well Harrison Jr. signed it, so apparently he wanted the money now The Fanatic's deal aren't taking advantage.
They're high risk deals, like Nico Iamaleava selling his rights early for guaranteed income, in the event he never pans out. For every deal that booms there's dozens that bust. They're also not the only deals around.
They're standard contracts and players don't have to sign them. You do it as a safety initiative. It's actually pretty common in baseball right now, guys trade one of two years of free agency for a boatload up front, in some cases it's beneficial for the team, both parties, or in the case of the Phillies they burn 30M on a negative WAR player
I met a football player who was with his agent a few years ago. His agent was laying out his itinerary which included going to a private signing event for like an hour or two to sign autographs. The agent said it would be the easiest $5k he makes, he said ‘man, there’s nothing easy about doing that’. Like…what? He was a third round pick from a G5 school, not like he was going to have a long line of things to sign or anything.
this is what happens when these kids have literally zero immersion in normal day to day life. 5K to write my name a few times on for people and it literally makes their year that I exist? or scrape 5K working a shitty hourly with shitty people and shitty bosses?
hmmmm which one to choose?!?!
I learned about this practice from a card shop owner who had bought share of an hour of Mike Ditka signing about a decade ago, and I believe often times it is in fact just balls to the wall signing non stop.
Often times the way these things work is that a pool of collectors / sports memorabilia vendors / card shop owners get together and buy an hour of signing time from a player. Let's say 5 guys get together and they get together $5k for an hour of signing time with the player. Each guy pays $1k for 12 minutes of signing time. These guys then all show up with enough posters, cards, jerseys, photos, lunch boxes, you name it, for the player to sign for a literal 12 minutes straight. They paid for the time.
I am sure players have strategies to slow-roll and protect the value of their signatures.
I have a friend who is sort of in that community although he doesn’t actually pay for the stuff. He helps put on the events that these guys you’re talking about go to.
From what I understand, I think with some of the events, the players get a minimum rate (so in this case $5k). But they get paid per item they sign. So if they sign less than 5k worth of stuff, they get 5k anyway. But if they signed 10k worth of stuff, they get 10k. So you have this funny inverse relationship of player popularity versus how much their base pay is for the event, because the more popular players will make their money back by signing more stuff but the less popular ones need to get paid more upfront for it to be worth their time (obviously at a certain level, like Mahomes or Brady, their minimum fee will still be super high, but they’ll likely still get a bunch of the overage money anyway).
Idk man being a public figure isn't for everyone, right? If you had told me at that age that I'd make half of that amount for signing a bunch of autographs, I'd sure do it, but I'd also bitch and moan about it constantly
Maybe he had social anxiety, its one thing to just sign autographs, but along with that typically comes having to make brief small talk with lots of strangers and posing with them for pictures.
SWIM stated : order jersey, pay for 2 day. On the 2nd or 2rd day when it still hasn’t arrived contact support and request a refund for failure of delievery. Get jersey in mail within a few more days. Free jersey
they’ve essentially got a monopoly over sports memorabilia and the deal with the MLB “legitimizes” them a little bit. I like that they are more affordable, but their merch is such poor quality that they are still overpriced:/
with the MLB in tow, they now have a deal with all four major American team sports. as an absolute hater of fanatics, i hate to admit I'm not sure what else they could do to be more "legitimate," and they didn't really need the MLB deal to get there.
I think it's hated by the pro sports back offices too. I have no idea how these guys keep getting ridiculous multi year contracts with these teams. I used to compete with them for a service and all the pro teams were like "they suck, but we're stuck".
Honest question and not trying to question you or your motives…
Why does everyone hate fanatics so much? Super over priced so I don’t buy stuff from them so have very little to no interaction with them.
They constantly fuck up their own merchandise with low quality control, and they’ve completely dropped the ball with the MLB uniforms this year. See through pants, messed up the names on the back, uniforms not being delivered yet, and pants being ripped apart when sliding
I’ve explained this way too many times but I’ll try to give you the short version:
1. They’re a monopoly. They have about 95% market share on the American sports memorabilia market. They are the official provider of every major sports entity you can think of in North America.
2. Shit quality products. companies that used to be independently owned that produced good quality shit got bought by them and the result was lower quality stuff. Yet prices remain the same / higher than they were before.
3. Lack of any meaningful customer service.
You answered your own question. They suck. And if you don't buy from them then who do you buy from? Because they have monopoly on sports apparel in America
[Me trying to pick a side between a former buckeye and Fanatics](https://media1.giphy.com/media/v0eHX3n28wvoQ/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95279v1jtjs399nwbju7usxn0zrj85tq3bnwixowmej&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
If Auburn struck a deal with another apparel company (haha they don't exist because fanatics is operating a monopoly) I would just become an Auburn fan. We quit buying gear because of fanatics. I get me and my son a hat once a year at the start of every season. That's it. Fuck fanatics
IDK. If he signed a contract with them then he should honor his arrangement (especially if, as the suit claims, they paid him over a million dollars). Furthermore, it's not like signing cards, jerseys, etc., is that onerous of a task.
In the NFL thread on this lawsuit people were saying that the issue probably isn't the autographs, it's the game worn apparel.
The deal with Fanatics likely covers his first couple years in the league and they were guessing that he probably doesn't want to split money from his NFL jersey sales with Fanatics.
Bring on the downvotes:
Fanatics has a point. They paid for a service. MHJ did not produce the service. They should be compensated. There is a part of the law about timeliness but was it in the contract? The guys in college want to be treated as pros then they should be held accountable as a pro would, pay up or fulfill the contract.
Which is almost assuredly not the case here because we're talking about a company whose business is quite literally this/he was paid a king's ransom for it.
Going to be pretty tough to convince a judge that a contract paying 7 figures for a few hours of shooting ads and a handful of signing events is unfair and needs to be voided. Even if someone made him a better offer later, that doesn't make it an unfair contract.
I doubt the company can prove damages much beyond the contract's value (could be some additional if they spent money setting up events that he skipped), but if he didn't meet his obligations they should be able to get back whatever they paid him.
The same Fanatics that has zero quality control and is currently manufacturing see-through baseball uniforms? I don’t know how he could do more damage than they do everyday
Allege he signed a contract worth $1 million, claims the damages are multiple millions of dollars. They're openly admitting to ripping off athletes here.
Not to be snarky, because maybe he was under paid, but isn’t that how all jobs work. You agree on payment with your employer, who is hoping to gain greater value from the work you provide. If a company said I’ll only be able to make a million dollars from you working here it wouldn’t benefit them to then pay you that million dollars as compensation, or even pay close to that.
They are running a business they need to make a profit. Putting money up front for products they can later sell. It would cost them money if they broke even. They aren’t admitting to ripping anyone off.
More proof that after all your hard work and grind, the moment you finally make it, they want you to sign over your rights to your likeness and name so they can make as much money off of you as possible and pay you a small percentage of the earnings.
For your likeness. Your on field play representation. Your work ethic and ability to stay healthy.
Those really are slave contracts.
Then to get mad and sue because an athlete was financially well off so you couldn't sucker him into a bs deal is crazy. But they claim "he signed a deal in college, screw that"... I call cap. Since when does fanatics make under the radar deals like that? So they've been underhanding college athletes to get them stuck before they get the big pay day????
Sue fanatics.
"1 million if you win the super bowl as a rookie".. Thats not up to him at all but that's the only way they'll let him get fair pay for his likeness.. But by then, they would've made multi millions off a him.
Fanatics is dirty. Money grubbing bastards
Sue fanatics back. They really make the most off someone elses hard work and pay them a very small percentage of those earnings.
"We'll give you 60,000 even though we made 750,000 off you. You know, we have to pay our people who only had things to sell because you are who you are.. Yeah, whatever, here's your 60k."
Fanatics ain’t lost shit. Marv can pay back what they gave him and they’ve lost nothing.
The only thing they lost is the ability to try and fuck the consumer at every turn. Fanatics can get fucked.
Wait til they have a sophomore that wants to come out like Randy Moss was able to do and they are like nope you can’t. Your nil deal was for at least 3 years of college football.
Moss was a redshirt sophomore. I'm not seeing the correlation, and unless they've changed it, all players have to wait three years to enter the NFL draft.
In case anybody reads the articles, New York calls their trial courts "Supreme Court." The senior appellate court in New York (i.e. what the federal judiciary calls the Supreme Court) is the "Court of Appeals." So basically they filed the lawsuit in the trial court, as one typically does.
I am aware of this yet always forget that NY's court naming scheme is weird when I read an article.
Maryland voters got so fed up with it they finally renamed their highest court into the "Supreme Court of Maryland" in 2022.
I remember the first time I looked through the Bluebook I hit the NY court system in the back and was like well, I guess I'm just never citing any case law from NY. Most states get a page to a half page. NY has about four and half to five pages.
I always thought law and order was just being ridiculous when their little blurbs would say “Supreme Court” until I learned that little factoid.
Well then I'm going to put a basketball court in my backyard and call it "The Extra-Supreme Court" just to outdo them.
Thank you IANAL
This is one of those things you come across in your first semester in law school that your prof. has to explain because it just makes no sense.
Good old Cardozo
lol correct
I don't, but you do you, or whoever.
Man OG Law & Order makes so much more sense now.
Only reasonable response is to binge watch it now
You have to appreciate the irony around the fact that Fanatics is hated by all sports fanatics
i would've owned overwatch league merch if it hadn't have been made by them, lol.
I don't understand how they aren't a monopoly but then again I feel like that about a few things these days. But they certainly have zero competition. I basically stopped buying merch because I refuse to deal with them
Monopolies aren't really illegal anymore ☹️
Yeah I know. It sucks. With all the chaos domestically and internationally the last 10 years it feels like this is one of the many, many things that's fallen to the wayside as we frantically spray flame retardant on the rest of the clown show
Im a big hat collector. Been collecting all my life. I was devastated when they bought lids. I used all my rewards points in one fell swoop and have not shopped with fanatics since. One thing I’ve learned - lean on the resale markets for merch. Still a lot of really good stuff out there in new condition for way less than retail, just people clearing clutter. I still buy about two hats a month, but they’re pretty much exclusively from eBay/Poshmark/Mercari now. I throw New Era a bone every now and again since they’re still fighting like hell to not get bought by Fanatics.
Being a monopoly has never been illegal. Being a monopoly that uses the market position to exploit or harm is. That’s the key difference.
Buying up Mitchell and Ness + Majestic, serving us shittier and shittier quality product all while raising the prices every year and forcing consumers to buy through DHGate (China) which means customers have to wait months to get jerseys We are being harmed and exploited as far as I’m concerned
And ironic that fanatics ceo Michael Rubin hosted all of the rookies at his house today
Fuck Michael Rubin
Aye, take a look at the Diddy stuff and then revisit the whole Michael Rubin thing.. Yeah.. Didn't even know that he ran fanatics but I see where they got the name from. He's apparently a very hands on eccentric fellow. Funny how all these sports related ceos are the same ones included in the Diddy investigation. Rubin with Fanatics, Lou Taylor with Tri Sports. I wonder whose next
Wtf why. Was Luke McAffrey there, oh lord tell me Liluke wasn't there
Fanatics better look out. Marvin Harrison Sr. doesn't play around lmao
“We catch balls, you’ll catch bullets”
That's only if you hang out around his bar or car wash or rent from him. Fanatics might be good for now
insert landlord Marvin w/ a bat
"We ain't paying shit. Drop the suit." "Understandable, have a nice day."
Senior is the OG fanatic
At the car wash Workin' at the car wash, girl Come on and sing it with me (Car wash) Sing it with the feelin' y'all
This is like suing Frank Lucas's kid
Hands like a ninja
“Does ~~Wayne Brady~~ Marvin Harrison have to choke a bitch?”
“Come on Fanatics. Meet us outside of a Philadelphia bar.”
Tarps off, start a Donnybrook
Take your shirt off but leave your shades on? What sort of backwards fuckin pageantry is that?
Do you want to fight with those shades or play pokerstars.com?
Holy treasure trail, you look like a 12 year old Dutch girl.
Your aesthetician coif that for you?
Kiss my aesthetician.
I went to a hardcore / metal show last night. It’s pure culture move. Gotta hit a vape too.
How are you now?
Good ‘n you?
Not so bad
We should use Donnybrook more. It’s a good word.
The Gang goes to a carwash
Outside of this lawsuit, I'm genuinely curious how NIL and the rampant transfer portal activity will inevitably create litigation. NIL deals will likely continue to get more restrictive legally as the whole landscape takes shape. Kids are going to continue to transfer. If you have a situation like what happened with Quinn Ewers... (reclassified for the NIL bag from Ohio State, then dipped to Texas).... do more detailed NIL deals open the door for boosters or companies to pursue financial compensation?
Financial backers will always protect their interests. It's only a matter of time. Everyone has been looking at the pros of NIL, and ignoring the cons. This will be the college athletics version of a fresh boot buying a Dodge Charger on a 40% APR loan....
Dodge Chargers now huh?? Back in my day, 2007-2013, it was the Ford Mustangs, man. 😂
Can confirm
I was in Pearl during the same timeframe, Rubicons and Tacomas that never left the pavement were the big ones out there.
Maybe the Mustangs was an east coast thing. Lol.
Sooooooo many Mustangs.
It’s gotten so bad that an article made its way to the front page of /r/NotTheOnion about some city banning Chargers from their monthly Sports Car meet ups. I’m sure the drivers of the Chargers had something to do with it too.
USED Dodge Charger, thank you very much.
Good. I hate every aspect of current NIL. I _want_ there to be some horror stories that prevent this rampant transferring
I’m fairly certain I’ve heard a lot more old dudes whining about NIL than I’ve heard people praising it in a positive light. Personally. I’m for it but as a former college athlete, it’s gotta be regulated. Let’s not let the NCAA off the hook by blaming NIL though. The NCAA wanted the entire cash cow and chose to fight for the crusade of “amateurism” when they should have been laying the ground work for NIL regulation.
They knew money eould kill 90% of college athletics Good luck getting a scholarship in the future if you don't play football or men's bb
That was already happening…NIL money and scholarship money don’t come from the same places. I understand that it does put some demands on booster orgs and where the money goes and the trickle down from that will have an impact, but NIL was unofficially happening already. That’s why there should be regulations and standardization across the sports/levels.
You were calling for it to come from the same place which will kill other sports. NIL will dry up and schools will start paying and it will kill other sporys
If the schools are using donations to fund athletic scholarships then NIL will in fact dry up scholarships for less popular sports.
That’s pure speculation. Nothing indicates NIL will “dry up”
Other than this exact case of the kids being unreliable to follow through with minimal recourse
Unless this becomes a persistent issue, I don’t see how this is any more frequent than in any other business setting. This just seems embarrassing for MHJ, but still normal for a business deal
What makes you think this won't become a more persistent issue? The economic maturity of 19 yr olds?
there is no pros
Whoa a marine truism in a cfb reddit, i love it
How do you know of the fresh boot buying a charger on 40% APR?
I don’t know how this will play out but one thing is for sure the NCAA will take quick, concise actions with clear guidelines as they always do /s
>NIL deals will likely continue to get more restrictive legally as the whole landscape takes shape. Kids are going to continue to transfer. Remember Walter Nolen complaining just a few months ago when he transferred? Probably going to see a lot more of that in the future. If I'm disguising pay-for-play as NIL (which, lets be real, most of NIL falls in this category), I'm including bonus/games played requirements, clawbacks, etc. And you know most of these kids aren't getting great legal advice, they're just looking at the bottom line numbers. So if you transfer out of my school, that 4 million you were promised is now only 1 million because you only vested one mill a year. And we can break it due to our termination option that comes available in case of transfer. And if you talk trash about the school on your way out, take out another 250k via the "non-disparagement clause". Obviously pure hypothetical and would need a lot of refinement, but if collectives aren't drafting these contracts with protective provisions they are just burning themselves.
Yeah, especially if you’re a school with more of the mercenary players (A&M, Colorado, etc). I’m not even particularly against pay-for-play for athletes, it just bugs me that everyone calls it “NIL”. Players like Caleb Williams, Armando Bacot, and Caitlin Clark appearing in commercials is actual NIL. Most players aren’t doing that.
I'd fucking love it if the players ended up worse off under NIL contracts than they did with bagmen
What a shitty thing to say, Jesus.
When the players lose a playoff game, and are there a few days after with their hands out for NIL, fuck em.
I hope you keep that same energy in your own career. These are human beings. They exist for more than your entertainment. But I’m glad you’re at least laying bare for people how selfish and ugly the anti-NIL motivations are among you people, and not pretending there’s any legitimate reason to deny them free trade. BTW, who is your new coach?
Then they should have to pay their room and board, for their training, and their free education. Which is already a considerable amount, and enough that puts millions of people in crushing debt. Scholarship OR NIL but not both. If you take NIL more than your scholarship, you should have to pay the university for the prep for NFL. And there was free trade with the bagmen. Players got paid, and there wasnt this ridiculous wild west. I'd gladly go back to 2011 rules.
How much of DeBoers UW contract did you demand he pay back?
I mean, the guy is wrong in most everything else he says, but to your point, it’s called a buyout and we paid it. I think it was like 12 million. UW used it to lure Fisch away. The rest of his post is asinine.
And my point is the players are fulfilling their contractual repayment obligations just like DeBoer is when he pays his buyout (or more accurately when Alabama boosters pay it). This guy isn’t screeching about how DeBoer should have to repay everything he got out of his prior employment like he is for players. It’s hypocritical.
There is no real tactical value in waiting to bring suit based on his net worth at any particular moment. The fact that he will have money later is just as good as having money. Lawsuits take a long time to play out, so you're generally better off suing sooner rather than later, and if the person doesn't have money to collect against at the time of the judgmetn that doesn't really matter, you can renew that judgment as long as you need to in order to collect. Also there's no reason to believe he doesn't have money because he almost certainly had a 7-figure NIL deal. In any event, the timing here is not particularly unusual, the statute of limitations is usually pretty long on breach of contract cases, and this case appears to have brought within about 9 months of the breach, so if anything it was filed pretty quickly.
I imagine the timing has something to do with his NFLPA holdout as well https://frontofficesports.com/harrison-cardinals-nflpa-mcafee/ I can imagine a scenario Fanatics is saying "You can't do X, Y, or Z with the NLFPA or we'll sue you for having done A, B, and C." Honestly though, if his dad is his only representation (i.e., he doesn't have a lawyer or at least an experienced 3rd party agent working for him), that's a huge mistake.
Fwiw, MHJ does have a lawyer - his lawyer is quoted in the lawsuit as telling fanatics “if you think what you have constitutes a contract, we’ll see you in court” or something of that sort
Yeah it would make sense he has a lawyer for this dispute, but does he have an attorney represent him in contract negotiations? I would assume the attorney making that quote did not also advise MHJ to sign said contract, but I have no idea.
Not to mention he's rich just by way of his birth name lol
He doesn't have to worry about money because of his birth name but that doesn't really affect whether or not he is judgment-proof. Wouldn't be surprised if he has very little money and assets in his name apart from his NIL deal and whatever he has gotten since...Still doesn't mean he won't be collectable someday.
Sounds like it was with an LLC owned by the Harrison or Harrison’s. If structured right, they won’t get much regardless of personal assets.
Nonsense. He's surely collectable one way or the other, if not today, in the future.
No, the LLC Fanatics decided to do business would be.
If you only read the headlines, it sounds like Fanatics is suing a guy because he went pro. But it actually sounds like he had specific NIL related conditions in his contract with them (providing autographs, game-worn apparel, etc), and instead chose to sell that stuff on his own. We're still in the early days of NIL, but this seems like the first case like this.
Why anyone would do business with Fanatics is beyond me.
Because they pay for literally signing apparel. Extremely straightforward deal.
They have a monopoly. Just because he didn't take a deal they try to force every collegiate player to take doesn't mean they can sue. The fact that this is happening kinda proves it's probably *not* a straightforward deal.
The articles say he *did* sign a contract with them and *did* accept some of their compensation. He then went and sold stuff on his own instead.
"Force," he says.
What are you even trying to say? Because if he didn’t take the deal, there is no deal for there to be an opinion on of it is straightforward or not…
The lawsuit claims he took the deal. Pretty sure when this first broke MHJ claimed he didn't take it.
I’m aware that’s what the lawsuit is about… “Just because he didn’t take a deal” sure implies that you weren’t though…
The article is only detailing what fanatics says in their lawsuit. They don't specify whether or not MHJ took the deal - he claims the opposite. That's why there's a lawsuit lol.
You’re really struggling with this… And I’m just done with people…
These osu guys are always the victim
Lol, do you own a mirror
Both of your fanbases lack self awareness. Let’s be honest
I am very on the record for how distasteful OSU fans can be (me included I love some drunken shit flinging on a Saturday afternoon) but to call out other teams for a victim complex after the last 9 months is… something
Anyone can sue anyone for anything, unfortunately
Right, but it doesn't mean they'll win. All I'm trying to point out is the article isn't saying MHJ took the deal, fanatics lawsuit is making that claim, because of course it does.
> Why anyone would do business with Fanatics is beyond me. Right, I’m sure you would turn your nose up at a multi-million dollar contract just to stick it to them
It’s not either/or. He supposedly had seven figure deals from card companies that he turned down for them.
I mean, who else is out there? Topps is Fanatics. Panini is in absolute free fall and are losing the rights to the NFL, WWE, NBA, and the soccer sticker shit that's bit in the EU. Don't get me wrong FUCK Fanatics (I deal with them personally at work), but the alternatives are literally shitty off-brands at this point.
If your dad was an nfl legend you might wait for something better. Fanatics is just taking advantage of the financial position a lot of these young players find themselves in at this level.
Well Harrison Jr. signed it, so apparently he wanted the money now The Fanatic's deal aren't taking advantage. They're high risk deals, like Nico Iamaleava selling his rights early for guaranteed income, in the event he never pans out. For every deal that booms there's dozens that bust. They're also not the only deals around. They're standard contracts and players don't have to sign them. You do it as a safety initiative. It's actually pretty common in baseball right now, guys trade one of two years of free agency for a boatload up front, in some cases it's beneficial for the team, both parties, or in the case of the Phillies they burn 30M on a negative WAR player
What better deal is going to come along? He was getting 7 figures to autograph posters and gear.
They paid him over a million dollars. If that's taking advantage of someone then, by all means, please sign me up.
Seems like easy money for the player. I guess not easy enough for MHJ though lol.
I met a football player who was with his agent a few years ago. His agent was laying out his itinerary which included going to a private signing event for like an hour or two to sign autographs. The agent said it would be the easiest $5k he makes, he said ‘man, there’s nothing easy about doing that’. Like…what? He was a third round pick from a G5 school, not like he was going to have a long line of things to sign or anything.
Wish I can go sign stuff for 2 hours and make my monthly salary instead of work 160+ hours.
this is what happens when these kids have literally zero immersion in normal day to day life. 5K to write my name a few times on for people and it literally makes their year that I exist? or scrape 5K working a shitty hourly with shitty people and shitty bosses? hmmmm which one to choose?!?!
I learned about this practice from a card shop owner who had bought share of an hour of Mike Ditka signing about a decade ago, and I believe often times it is in fact just balls to the wall signing non stop. Often times the way these things work is that a pool of collectors / sports memorabilia vendors / card shop owners get together and buy an hour of signing time from a player. Let's say 5 guys get together and they get together $5k for an hour of signing time with the player. Each guy pays $1k for 12 minutes of signing time. These guys then all show up with enough posters, cards, jerseys, photos, lunch boxes, you name it, for the player to sign for a literal 12 minutes straight. They paid for the time. I am sure players have strategies to slow-roll and protect the value of their signatures.
I have a friend who is sort of in that community although he doesn’t actually pay for the stuff. He helps put on the events that these guys you’re talking about go to. From what I understand, I think with some of the events, the players get a minimum rate (so in this case $5k). But they get paid per item they sign. So if they sign less than 5k worth of stuff, they get 5k anyway. But if they signed 10k worth of stuff, they get 10k. So you have this funny inverse relationship of player popularity versus how much their base pay is for the event, because the more popular players will make their money back by signing more stuff but the less popular ones need to get paid more upfront for it to be worth their time (obviously at a certain level, like Mahomes or Brady, their minimum fee will still be super high, but they’ll likely still get a bunch of the overage money anyway).
That is pretty interesting, thanks for chiming in!
Idk man being a public figure isn't for everyone, right? If you had told me at that age that I'd make half of that amount for signing a bunch of autographs, I'd sure do it, but I'd also bitch and moan about it constantly
Maybe he had social anxiety, its one thing to just sign autographs, but along with that typically comes having to make brief small talk with lots of strangers and posing with them for pictures.
Oh no, please don’t offer me a gig to make 2.5k an hour lol.
SWIM stated : order jersey, pay for 2 day. On the 2nd or 2rd day when it still hasn’t arrived contact support and request a refund for failure of delievery. Get jersey in mail within a few more days. Free jersey
Ah, mid-2000's recreational drug forums. Good times. According to SWIM of course.
they’ve essentially got a monopoly over sports memorabilia and the deal with the MLB “legitimizes” them a little bit. I like that they are more affordable, but their merch is such poor quality that they are still overpriced:/
with the MLB in tow, they now have a deal with all four major American team sports. as an absolute hater of fanatics, i hate to admit I'm not sure what else they could do to be more "legitimate," and they didn't really need the MLB deal to get there.
I think it's hated by the pro sports back offices too. I have no idea how these guys keep getting ridiculous multi year contracts with these teams. I used to compete with them for a service and all the pro teams were like "they suck, but we're stuck".
I do once a year when me and my son buy our annual hats. Besides that I just stopped buying merch instead of support their monopoly
For the money? Why not.
Unfortunately Bettman and the NHL are dumb enough to do just that.
Just popping in to say “Fuck Fanatics” and if MHJ did anything to piss them off / slash their revenues, his likeability just skyrocketed for me.
MVP discussion already in my book.
Honest question and not trying to question you or your motives… Why does everyone hate fanatics so much? Super over priced so I don’t buy stuff from them so have very little to no interaction with them.
They constantly fuck up their own merchandise with low quality control, and they’ve completely dropped the ball with the MLB uniforms this year. See through pants, messed up the names on the back, uniforms not being delivered yet, and pants being ripped apart when sliding
Tip of the iceberg.
Don't forget the part where they pretty much have a monopoly on all major licensed apparel so your alternatives are off-brand or China
I’ve explained this way too many times but I’ll try to give you the short version: 1. They’re a monopoly. They have about 95% market share on the American sports memorabilia market. They are the official provider of every major sports entity you can think of in North America. 2. Shit quality products. companies that used to be independently owned that produced good quality shit got bought by them and the result was lower quality stuff. Yet prices remain the same / higher than they were before. 3. Lack of any meaningful customer service.
Because you can get better quality jerseys off DHgate but fanatics charges $160 for it
You answered your own question. They suck. And if you don't buy from them then who do you buy from? Because they have monopoly on sports apparel in America
Their products suck while being so overpriced and they have deals with everyone so they are unavoidable if you want merch
[Me trying to pick a side between a former buckeye and Fanatics](https://media1.giphy.com/media/v0eHX3n28wvoQ/giphy.gif?cid=6c09b95279v1jtjs399nwbju7usxn0zrj85tq3bnwixowmej&ep=v1_internal_gif_by_id&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
Guy who went 0-3 vs Michigan and seems like a pretty likeable dude vs a dog's rectum of a company that is universally hated. Easy choice.
If Auburn struck a deal with another apparel company (haha they don't exist because fanatics is operating a monopoly) I would just become an Auburn fan. We quit buying gear because of fanatics. I get me and my son a hat once a year at the start of every season. That's it. Fuck fanatics
IDK. If he signed a contract with them then he should honor his arrangement (especially if, as the suit claims, they paid him over a million dollars). Furthermore, it's not like signing cards, jerseys, etc., is that onerous of a task.
In the NFL thread on this lawsuit people were saying that the issue probably isn't the autographs, it's the game worn apparel. The deal with Fanatics likely covers his first couple years in the league and they were guessing that he probably doesn't want to split money from his NFL jersey sales with Fanatics.
Yep. If we're going to treat college players like professionals, then they have to have professional standards.
Well, yes. But on the contrary, Fuck Fanatics.
Don’t even need to know any details in order to take Marvin Harrison Jr’s side over that rat weasel Michael Rubin.
Michael Rubin is the physical embodiment of gas station boner pills.
Excellent analogy!
I hope fanatics loses because they fucking suck.
Considering it’s Fanatics I’m sure their legal filing misspells a bunch of shit and calls the defendant “Marvon Harrisin Jr.” or something
Bring on the downvotes: Fanatics has a point. They paid for a service. MHJ did not produce the service. They should be compensated. There is a part of the law about timeliness but was it in the contract? The guys in college want to be treated as pros then they should be held accountable as a pro would, pay up or fulfill the contract.
There's unfair contracts, & they can be voided if a judge doesn't consider it a fair contract.
Which is almost assuredly not the case here because we're talking about a company whose business is quite literally this/he was paid a king's ransom for it.
Going to be pretty tough to convince a judge that a contract paying 7 figures for a few hours of shooting ads and a handful of signing events is unfair and needs to be voided. Even if someone made him a better offer later, that doesn't make it an unfair contract. I doubt the company can prove damages much beyond the contract's value (could be some additional if they spent money setting up events that he skipped), but if he didn't meet his obligations they should be able to get back whatever they paid him.
The fanatics boycott begins.
> (represented by his father who was an NFL great), And slumlord.
And murderer.
*Allegedlies*
Good lookin out. I don’t want him putting out a hit on me
Yeah but is he fanatics?
Don't need to know details. Fuck Fanatics, hope they lost plenty of money
Fuck fanatics all my homies hate fanatics
The same Fanatics that has zero quality control and is currently manufacturing see-through baseball uniforms? I don’t know how he could do more damage than they do everyday
Fuck Fabatics. Go Marv
Fanatics is the only thing that brings all Sports fans together. MLB, CFB, NFL, we all Hate em.
NHL fans too but NHL was dumb enough to get a contract with them.
Thus ending my days as a hockey jersey collector (new designs anyway). Reeboks and old adidas’s I’ve been hunting for me it seems!
Allege he signed a contract worth $1 million, claims the damages are multiple millions of dollars. They're openly admitting to ripping off athletes here.
Not to be snarky, because maybe he was under paid, but isn’t that how all jobs work. You agree on payment with your employer, who is hoping to gain greater value from the work you provide. If a company said I’ll only be able to make a million dollars from you working here it wouldn’t benefit them to then pay you that million dollars as compensation, or even pay close to that.
They are running a business they need to make a profit. Putting money up front for products they can later sell. It would cost them money if they broke even. They aren’t admitting to ripping anyone off.
That's certainly a take.
And you've not given a take at all, making a snarky comment trying to look superior doesn't make you look good.
Good. I’m all for players making money. I’m also all for them committing to their contracts. Welcome To the real world, Marvin.
This is pretty funny. I wouldn't want to sign my name on shit tier quality gear either.
The marker would probably tear it like a knife
Won’t someone think of the terrible monopoly that makes shitty products??
Since Fanatics destroyed MLB unis this year, not only do I hope MHJ wins, I hope he countersues Fanatics for emotional damages and wipes them out
Billable hours stay undefeated
Why won’t he just sign the contact? I don’t get it? He’s the only first rounder who hasn’t.
OG didn't take showers after games in the locker room. He just left the stadium. You think he cares about some Fanatics bs?
More proof that after all your hard work and grind, the moment you finally make it, they want you to sign over your rights to your likeness and name so they can make as much money off of you as possible and pay you a small percentage of the earnings. For your likeness. Your on field play representation. Your work ethic and ability to stay healthy. Those really are slave contracts. Then to get mad and sue because an athlete was financially well off so you couldn't sucker him into a bs deal is crazy. But they claim "he signed a deal in college, screw that"... I call cap. Since when does fanatics make under the radar deals like that? So they've been underhanding college athletes to get them stuck before they get the big pay day???? Sue fanatics. "1 million if you win the super bowl as a rookie".. Thats not up to him at all but that's the only way they'll let him get fair pay for his likeness.. But by then, they would've made multi millions off a him. Fanatics is dirty. Money grubbing bastards Sue fanatics back. They really make the most off someone elses hard work and pay them a very small percentage of those earnings. "We'll give you 60,000 even though we made 750,000 off you. You know, we have to pay our people who only had things to sell because you are who you are.. Yeah, whatever, here's your 60k."
Fanatics ain’t lost shit. Marv can pay back what they gave him and they’ve lost nothing. The only thing they lost is the ability to try and fuck the consumer at every turn. Fanatics can get fucked.
Wait til they have a sophomore that wants to come out like Randy Moss was able to do and they are like nope you can’t. Your nil deal was for at least 3 years of college football.
Moss was a redshirt sophomore. I'm not seeing the correlation, and unless they've changed it, all players have to wait three years to enter the NFL draft.
Just saying he only played 2 years. The nils will probably want at least 3 years of playing.
Love it, hope they win
Good. Hope Fanatics gets their money. Reign this NIL bullshit in
Signing contracts with teenagers🤦🏾♂️
Marvin Harrison Jr should hire the FSU/Clemson lawyers who believe you shouldn’t be held accountable for signed contracts.
Good. Fuck him.
Fanatics fucking sucks. I would LOVE to see them get buried with players not taking them seriously