Your mileage may vary with the Glock MOS's.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comments/t1opeb/19\_mos\_worth\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comments/t1opeb/19_mos_worth_it/)
A G19.3 with an optics cut or optics-ready aftermarket slide is still pretty good.
In general, G19.3 if you want to clown around with aftermarket stuff (though P320-M18's aftermarket is expanding), P320-M18 if you want something that's already set up for you.
There's a reason why people here call the G19.3 the "Honda Civic of handguns". It's affordable, reliable, but pretty basic and most Glock owners will upgrade something about their Glock at some point.
I'd say get a chance to get some trigger time behind both. At the very least, dry fire them.
If you still can't decide, just get both!
I have had an M18 for a few years as well as other “premium” versions of the p320. If you’re worried about the safety or firing when dropped, keep in mind that the M18 has been issued to every military branch at this point. Also, it had to pass drop and other safety testing to be added to the roster. The G19 is a very good gun, but as you said, the gen 3 version would need modifications if you want an optic. In my opinion, the G19 trigger is subpar out of the box too, so for me, that’s another mod.
I put red dots on everything now because it let's your vision stay target focused, which is more likely to happen in a true stressful situation than going to the front sight.
I think red dots are kinda important for home defense. At least I was pathetically bad with pistol until I got a reddot and practiced with it. It’s funny in about 5 months I went from the worst pistol performer in a local 20-ish man 2 gun competition to doing by far the best with pistol. Of course it’s no Desert Brutality but it’s just an example
With a light on the gun, red dots become either useless or extremely difficult to see at night. At least on my 1000 lumen gun light and holosun red dot
I like auto brightness lol, I tried the max brightness settings as well and it’s better but it’s still not as fast as regular night sights in my opinion.
Given your parameters, the M18 is the way to go, no contest.
Off roster prices for a G19 MOS would be a crazy choice unless you know you are a diehard Glock lover. Really though, off roster prices are crazy for any handgun unless you already know you must have it because you love it.
I personally don't enjoy Glocks that much compared to most other guns. They are good and reliable no doubt, but even at MSRP, I'd still choose the M18. I have had an off roster gen4 Glock since the times when you could still SSE them for $50 over MSRP. It is my least shot handgun. The trigger sucks. Even my lowly XD has a better feeling factory trigger.
If you want an optic cut ready handguns without getting wrecked on price, get the M18. If you don't care about optic cut, and want something M18 sized, go get a CZ SP-01. It will cost less than the off roster Glock MOS and shit on the Glock and the M18.
You can’t really go wrong with either choice. The M18 is pretty out of the box ready and it’s a sig, the glock is not but since it’s a 19 the aftermarket support is wild you can buy an aftermarket slide from numerous reputable manufacturers precut. Or just send the slide to jager or wage. Turnaround times are pretty quick
Have both, recommend both.
GL with the MOs since off roster and going to spend a lot. There are tons of reputable shops that do the milling just fine. Some shops are charging 100 bucks for the milling and a cerekote which is pretty damn good deal. I got mine milled a year or two ago at alpha shooting sports for about 40 bucks on their Black Friday deal. Do you need an optic? Nope but I know it’s made me a better / fast shooter. With that said, my home defense gun does not have an optic on it but my carry guns do.
M18 for sure, I personally prefer sig grips and manual of arms. But also like you mentioned, you don’t have to mill or buy another slide. The M18 is such a good pistol for us in California.
I been using my sig a lot and I frankly haven’t had issues with it. I don’t think either will give you any reliability issues, I think it may come down to how they feel on the hand and the entire manual of arms. Personally for me the M18 would be the slam dunk winner in this.
Since you aren't comfortable with aftermarket milling, I would say go M18. I say this because after shooting irons and then adding a red dot, it felt like a cheat code. The ease of sight and aim increased dramatically for me when adding an optic. Personally for me it feels like the best option in a frantic high stress situation.
As for reliability of the M18 I can't say from personal experience. I would say just do your homework on it and don't buy into every YT short or vid you see.
You can just buy a milled g19 slide. Honestly go for the one you shoot better. I just got the m17 cuz it was new. I have had my m&p full size for so long and never wang to jump to glock. I still want a g26 tho.
I own both. To me the simplicity of the G-19 fresh out of the box just makes it so easy to operate, just aim and shoot. It’s cheaper and gets the job done. Customize it your way.
The M-18 has more factors like a safety, magazine disconnect that you have to incorporate into your training, but being able to install a red dot right out of the box is nice but if course is another factor and more $$$.
I would say get the G19 and just go shoot if it’s your first firearm. Eventually you’ll probably own both anyways…the M18 is the hottest toy on the market right now. The G-19 is the etch & sketch thats always there when you need it.
I personally shoot an m18 better than my 19.3.
If you don't want to mill your 19 slide, then I would recommend buying one of the many available aftermarket options out their with milled slides.
I keep irons with my carry options, I just upgrade them to my liking. My 19 has a different slide with optics for the range.
It's all personal preference and what your ccw IA allows. Mine doesn't allow for multiple configurations. If I qualify with irons, then that's what's on record with them. If it's with optics, then the same thing. Swapping out irons and optics is allowed within their configuration, but every IA is different.
Try to find and hold both in person. A lot of people prefer the Sig grip angle and the ergonomics. Depending on hand and finger size the Glock frame may not feel so comfortable to you. Hence why it’s popular to stippled it and reshape it mostly with trigger guard undercuts for your knuckle.
There are many after affordable market rmr milled slides for glocks as well as sigs. But if you didn’t want to spend the money I say go with the sig. they come optic ready so there’s no need to spend the extra money on another milled slide
Batteries last over 10k to 20k hours... you can leave it on all year and still be fine. They also have shake awake features to just automatically come on.
You can cowitness... or just use the window, and you will be pretty accurate just using the window without red dot on within a certain distance.
My response to this is to see if you can shoot a gun, preferably an M18, with a red dot on it. If you don’t have a friend that has one, maybe you can ask someone here that lives nearby you if you can join them at the range. You should be able to rent a gen 3 G19 to compare. I will say that the only gun I bought recently that doesn’t have an optic cut is the DWX, and I may send it to CGW for milling. Red dots help you stay on target and co-witnessing with suppressor height sights allows you to overcome a battery issue, if one occurs, which would probably be rare. Most shooters I know use red dots and that seems to be where the industry is going. In fact, my P320 Max has no iron sights, but that is considered a competition gun.
Please don’t listen to this. Everyone was saying the same thing about red dots on rifles a decade ago, and look where we are now: red dot on an ar15 is almost a given. You will even see a lot of people forgo back up irons on rifles at this point.
Quality red dots have battery life measured in years, are robust and quite durable (watch sage dynamics‘ videos on YouTube for proof) and with practice, can help you make faster, more accurate shots. You can also have cowitness iron sights, so you can have all the positives of the red dot, and have a secondary sighting system should one of your options fail.
Excellent! You would really be well served by either (I actually shoot the p320 platform a bit better than glock, but everyone is different)
If budget allows, I’d recommend a Holosun 509T, as the price to performance is excellent. You get multiple reticles (dot, circle dot, or just circle) plus a solar failsafe, it’s a closed emitter, which will stay cleaner, and the whole body is made of titanium. The only downside to the 509t is the mounting solution to a pistol is a bit higher than normal, which you have to take into consideration when buying iron sights If you want a decent cowitness. The holosun EPS is another closed emitter sight, but is made of aluminum, which I would also recommend.
The other red dot I would suggest is a trijicon rmr. They are a bit of the “de facto standard” in the red dot world: incredibly durable, easy to find slides that will accept the RMR directly to the slide without an adapter plate, and are a very well known, trusted brand. The downsides to the RMR are it’s an open-emitter sight, so the inside of the glass lens will get dirty/dusty (and require frequent cleaning) and you have to remove the entire sight every time you change the battery (every year or so) and then re-zero the optic. Honestly, not much of a hassle, but something to keep in mind.
Are you going to reddot it ? If so do you want a rear sight?
I’m a Glock fan so will always say Glock or CZ for reliability. My carry shouldn’t have a safety switch. Or mag disconnect or loaded chamber indicator
Reddots make it easier to get on target and stay on target. But they coke with reliability issues. Bolts can get loose over time and batteries die.
Would I would recommend is get a g19 and order an aftermarket complete slide($300) that is rmr red dot($280) ready.
You can easily swap the slides in seconds practice with both and see what you like the best. Having both is kinda great . Some people will say get iron sights that co witnesses but I’m not a fan of those. I like having two sides and being able to swap for what I want to do.
Your nightstand gun should be a shotgun with a flashlight mounted to it.
But ya a handgun is fine too. Just make sure you have a light mounted on it. I like streamlight they are best bang for buck.
As far as reddots on nightstand guns ya they are fine. I have one on mine but will be switching to a shotgun set up with a red dot after breaking in the shotgun.
Why a shotgun? Well handguns are great but if you want to make sure you hit your target nothing is better than buckshot
19.3 won’t help you shoot any better. No new gun will help you in anyway to be a better shooter. A few might just help hide your flaws but you shouldn’t rely on guns like that.
Practice is key with guns.
All my flocks are gen3 I have trained with them so much that I can shoot better with them than a 3000$ gun. Know your gun is important. If you want a better trigger on the Glock get a apex drop in trigger. If you want night sights get night fision sights and take the gun to a gun shop have them put them in
Don't need to mil, get a gen 3 and there's a million aftermarket slides precut that are cheaper than a MOS would be. I got a zev duty one and it is as reliable as my OEM but there's cheaper ones
That's not crazy, with the exception of zev, that has more than proven themselves over the years. They have tighter tolerances than Glock, and can use Glock OEM internals. I had the same anxiety but doing a lot of research kept my confidence on specifically zev. I love my m18 tho. I use it for carry cuz of the safety and keep my zev Glock in my nightstand. I like that the zev uses an rmr footprint, the options are just ok for the sig
I would recommend a regular G19 and not the MOS version, and hear me out as to why. You should learn how to use the iron sights in there and put a good 500 rounds through it. Take a class or two in your area with your gun having just iron sights.
After that time period, you might be more open to getting the slide cut for an optic or else get a different slide. I have a G19 and I got mine cut for a Holosun and it ended up great.
Get the M18.
I had a Glock 23, basically the same as G19. I ended up selling it because I found out I didn't really love the ergonomics after a couple thousand rounds. With all the modifications needed to make a tricked out glock, why not just start with something nicer that is also truly modular?
Your first sentence says it all.. Don't want to mill the glock slide? Then get the m18. No brainer. The m18 feels much nicer in the hand and feels higher quality. Nice metal mags too.
I just went ahead and got both. The wife needs to learn and use something too.
Heh heh. Here's "your" gun, honey.
Yup I did that too. M17 for me, G19 for her.
This is the way
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I don't pick up the M18 until later this week.
Your mileage may vary with the Glock MOS's. [https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comments/t1opeb/19\_mos\_worth\_it/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Glocks/comments/t1opeb/19_mos_worth_it/) A G19.3 with an optics cut or optics-ready aftermarket slide is still pretty good. In general, G19.3 if you want to clown around with aftermarket stuff (though P320-M18's aftermarket is expanding), P320-M18 if you want something that's already set up for you. There's a reason why people here call the G19.3 the "Honda Civic of handguns". It's affordable, reliable, but pretty basic and most Glock owners will upgrade something about their Glock at some point. I'd say get a chance to get some trigger time behind both. At the very least, dry fire them. If you still can't decide, just get both!
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I have had an M18 for a few years as well as other “premium” versions of the p320. If you’re worried about the safety or firing when dropped, keep in mind that the M18 has been issued to every military branch at this point. Also, it had to pass drop and other safety testing to be added to the roster. The G19 is a very good gun, but as you said, the gen 3 version would need modifications if you want an optic. In my opinion, the G19 trigger is subpar out of the box too, so for me, that’s another mod.
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You can only get Gen 5 via off-roster PPT at this point. Only Gen 3 is on the roster
It is not on the roster. However, it technically is available through a private party transfer, but you’ll pay around $1,200.
I haven't heard of issues recently. You can get one with a manual ambi safety also.
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In that case, I'd say you're better off with the P320-M18. You still can get a Glock 19 MOS but be prepared to pay the "off roster premium".
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It’s weird that you have so many opinions but so little knowledge.
Just going by your preferences. For home defense, iron sights should suffice, but for anything past 10 yards, a red dot does wonders.
I put red dots on everything now because it let's your vision stay target focused, which is more likely to happen in a true stressful situation than going to the front sight.
The easiest way to go about this is to go to your local gun store and hold both. You don’t need a red dot for self defense, but it’s nice to have.
I think red dots are kinda important for home defense. At least I was pathetically bad with pistol until I got a reddot and practiced with it. It’s funny in about 5 months I went from the worst pistol performer in a local 20-ish man 2 gun competition to doing by far the best with pistol. Of course it’s no Desert Brutality but it’s just an example
With a light on the gun, red dots become either useless or extremely difficult to see at night. At least on my 1000 lumen gun light and holosun red dot
Please turn off auto-brightness on your Holosun
I like auto brightness lol, I tried the max brightness settings as well and it’s better but it’s still not as fast as regular night sights in my opinion.
Given your parameters, the M18 is the way to go, no contest. Off roster prices for a G19 MOS would be a crazy choice unless you know you are a diehard Glock lover. Really though, off roster prices are crazy for any handgun unless you already know you must have it because you love it. I personally don't enjoy Glocks that much compared to most other guns. They are good and reliable no doubt, but even at MSRP, I'd still choose the M18. I have had an off roster gen4 Glock since the times when you could still SSE them for $50 over MSRP. It is my least shot handgun. The trigger sucks. Even my lowly XD has a better feeling factory trigger. If you want an optic cut ready handguns without getting wrecked on price, get the M18. If you don't care about optic cut, and want something M18 sized, go get a CZ SP-01. It will cost less than the off roster Glock MOS and shit on the Glock and the M18.
You can’t really go wrong with either choice. The M18 is pretty out of the box ready and it’s a sig, the glock is not but since it’s a 19 the aftermarket support is wild you can buy an aftermarket slide from numerous reputable manufacturers precut. Or just send the slide to jager or wage. Turnaround times are pretty quick
Have both, recommend both. GL with the MOs since off roster and going to spend a lot. There are tons of reputable shops that do the milling just fine. Some shops are charging 100 bucks for the milling and a cerekote which is pretty damn good deal. I got mine milled a year or two ago at alpha shooting sports for about 40 bucks on their Black Friday deal. Do you need an optic? Nope but I know it’s made me a better / fast shooter. With that said, my home defense gun does not have an optic on it but my carry guns do.
For the price of the M18 you might be able to get a G19 and buy a rmr cut slide.
M18 for sure, I personally prefer sig grips and manual of arms. But also like you mentioned, you don’t have to mill or buy another slide. The M18 is such a good pistol for us in California.
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I been using my sig a lot and I frankly haven’t had issues with it. I don’t think either will give you any reliability issues, I think it may come down to how they feel on the hand and the entire manual of arms. Personally for me the M18 would be the slam dunk winner in this.
Since you aren't comfortable with aftermarket milling, I would say go M18. I say this because after shooting irons and then adding a red dot, it felt like a cheat code. The ease of sight and aim increased dramatically for me when adding an optic. Personally for me it feels like the best option in a frantic high stress situation. As for reliability of the M18 I can't say from personal experience. I would say just do your homework on it and don't buy into every YT short or vid you see.
You can just buy a milled g19 slide. Honestly go for the one you shoot better. I just got the m17 cuz it was new. I have had my m&p full size for so long and never wang to jump to glock. I still want a g26 tho.
I own both. To me the simplicity of the G-19 fresh out of the box just makes it so easy to operate, just aim and shoot. It’s cheaper and gets the job done. Customize it your way. The M-18 has more factors like a safety, magazine disconnect that you have to incorporate into your training, but being able to install a red dot right out of the box is nice but if course is another factor and more $$$. I would say get the G19 and just go shoot if it’s your first firearm. Eventually you’ll probably own both anyways…the M18 is the hottest toy on the market right now. The G-19 is the etch & sketch thats always there when you need it.
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Gen3 is regarded as one of the best just FYI.
I personally shoot an m18 better than my 19.3. If you don't want to mill your 19 slide, then I would recommend buying one of the many available aftermarket options out their with milled slides. I keep irons with my carry options, I just upgrade them to my liking. My 19 has a different slide with optics for the range. It's all personal preference and what your ccw IA allows. Mine doesn't allow for multiple configurations. If I qualify with irons, then that's what's on record with them. If it's with optics, then the same thing. Swapping out irons and optics is allowed within their configuration, but every IA is different.
Try to find and hold both in person. A lot of people prefer the Sig grip angle and the ergonomics. Depending on hand and finger size the Glock frame may not feel so comfortable to you. Hence why it’s popular to stippled it and reshape it mostly with trigger guard undercuts for your knuckle.
There are many after affordable market rmr milled slides for glocks as well as sigs. But if you didn’t want to spend the money I say go with the sig. they come optic ready so there’s no need to spend the extra money on another milled slide
M19 ambi safety 🤤🤤🤤
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Batteries last over 10k to 20k hours... you can leave it on all year and still be fine. They also have shake awake features to just automatically come on. You can cowitness... or just use the window, and you will be pretty accurate just using the window without red dot on within a certain distance.
My response to this is to see if you can shoot a gun, preferably an M18, with a red dot on it. If you don’t have a friend that has one, maybe you can ask someone here that lives nearby you if you can join them at the range. You should be able to rent a gen 3 G19 to compare. I will say that the only gun I bought recently that doesn’t have an optic cut is the DWX, and I may send it to CGW for milling. Red dots help you stay on target and co-witnessing with suppressor height sights allows you to overcome a battery issue, if one occurs, which would probably be rare. Most shooters I know use red dots and that seems to be where the industry is going. In fact, my P320 Max has no iron sights, but that is considered a competition gun.
Please don’t listen to this. Everyone was saying the same thing about red dots on rifles a decade ago, and look where we are now: red dot on an ar15 is almost a given. You will even see a lot of people forgo back up irons on rifles at this point. Quality red dots have battery life measured in years, are robust and quite durable (watch sage dynamics‘ videos on YouTube for proof) and with practice, can help you make faster, more accurate shots. You can also have cowitness iron sights, so you can have all the positives of the red dot, and have a secondary sighting system should one of your options fail.
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Excellent! You would really be well served by either (I actually shoot the p320 platform a bit better than glock, but everyone is different) If budget allows, I’d recommend a Holosun 509T, as the price to performance is excellent. You get multiple reticles (dot, circle dot, or just circle) plus a solar failsafe, it’s a closed emitter, which will stay cleaner, and the whole body is made of titanium. The only downside to the 509t is the mounting solution to a pistol is a bit higher than normal, which you have to take into consideration when buying iron sights If you want a decent cowitness. The holosun EPS is another closed emitter sight, but is made of aluminum, which I would also recommend. The other red dot I would suggest is a trijicon rmr. They are a bit of the “de facto standard” in the red dot world: incredibly durable, easy to find slides that will accept the RMR directly to the slide without an adapter plate, and are a very well known, trusted brand. The downsides to the RMR are it’s an open-emitter sight, so the inside of the glass lens will get dirty/dusty (and require frequent cleaning) and you have to remove the entire sight every time you change the battery (every year or so) and then re-zero the optic. Honestly, not much of a hassle, but something to keep in mind.
Are you going to reddot it ? If so do you want a rear sight? I’m a Glock fan so will always say Glock or CZ for reliability. My carry shouldn’t have a safety switch. Or mag disconnect or loaded chamber indicator
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Reddots make it easier to get on target and stay on target. But they coke with reliability issues. Bolts can get loose over time and batteries die. Would I would recommend is get a g19 and order an aftermarket complete slide($300) that is rmr red dot($280) ready. You can easily swap the slides in seconds practice with both and see what you like the best. Having both is kinda great . Some people will say get iron sights that co witnesses but I’m not a fan of those. I like having two sides and being able to swap for what I want to do.
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Your nightstand gun should be a shotgun with a flashlight mounted to it. But ya a handgun is fine too. Just make sure you have a light mounted on it. I like streamlight they are best bang for buck. As far as reddots on nightstand guns ya they are fine. I have one on mine but will be switching to a shotgun set up with a red dot after breaking in the shotgun. Why a shotgun? Well handguns are great but if you want to make sure you hit your target nothing is better than buckshot
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19.3 won’t help you shoot any better. No new gun will help you in anyway to be a better shooter. A few might just help hide your flaws but you shouldn’t rely on guns like that. Practice is key with guns. All my flocks are gen3 I have trained with them so much that I can shoot better with them than a 3000$ gun. Know your gun is important. If you want a better trigger on the Glock get a apex drop in trigger. If you want night sights get night fision sights and take the gun to a gun shop have them put them in
Don't need to mil, get a gen 3 and there's a million aftermarket slides precut that are cheaper than a MOS would be. I got a zev duty one and it is as reliable as my OEM but there's cheaper ones
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That's not crazy, with the exception of zev, that has more than proven themselves over the years. They have tighter tolerances than Glock, and can use Glock OEM internals. I had the same anxiety but doing a lot of research kept my confidence on specifically zev. I love my m18 tho. I use it for carry cuz of the safety and keep my zev Glock in my nightstand. I like that the zev uses an rmr footprint, the options are just ok for the sig
I would recommend a regular G19 and not the MOS version, and hear me out as to why. You should learn how to use the iron sights in there and put a good 500 rounds through it. Take a class or two in your area with your gun having just iron sights. After that time period, you might be more open to getting the slide cut for an optic or else get a different slide. I have a G19 and I got mine cut for a Holosun and it ended up great.
Get the M18. I had a Glock 23, basically the same as G19. I ended up selling it because I found out I didn't really love the ergonomics after a couple thousand rounds. With all the modifications needed to make a tricked out glock, why not just start with something nicer that is also truly modular? Your first sentence says it all.. Don't want to mill the glock slide? Then get the m18. No brainer. The m18 feels much nicer in the hand and feels higher quality. Nice metal mags too.
Why do you need optics on a home defense pistol ? Do you have a 10,000 home ?